Rap Radar Rewind: Stephen A. Smith

into a man rap rate our podcast. Stephen A. Smith. It's a special man. You know, you got an A level guests. You have to get the right set man right, the most respective voice of sports media today, the one man, Stephen A. Smith. What's going on, fellas Ueen. We're gonna get to that putting the network on his back? A k now. I wish, I wish it ain't no days off, man, but that's how it goes. I mean, it's my time and when it's there, you gotta grab it. Beside, I

can't run from work. And besides the work I see, besides the work you do daily. If you don't give us enough information. I see you really stepping out representing h b c U. You know, can you explain with your rollers. That's a couple of things. Number One, I gotta give a lot of love and credit to my man Rashaan McDonald. He's my business manager. Used to work with Steve Harvey. I've known him. Me and I go back nearly twenty years. Obviously I'm still pretty type with

Steve Harvey as well, so major props to him. But you've got people like Earl Cooper and Ashley Christopher who are co founders of HBCU Week is the third annual HBCU Week being held at Delaware State University. Got a mayor and Della of Women's in Delawares involved Mayor Persicki and John Karney, the governor, and both US senators congressional figures from the state of Delaware, all these people involved.

In months ago, they had me down to honor me because obviously I'm an HBCU graft from wins the Seal of State. And while they were honoring me for my contribution to HBCUs, you know just you know, in terms of my accomplishments and the fact that with a quarter mill yeah, I didn't with the quart of ye yeah, yeah, yeah, quarter a million dollars that I dedicated to the university from you from a couple of years ago. So I've been doing that like fifty every year and what have you.

You know, it's my way of giving back, as I promised my coach the Late Clarence Big House Games that I would always get back anytime I had something, I was going to extend myself. And so they were honoring me for that, and then in the process of doing so, they asked me to be an ambassador for HBCU Week.

And obviously the goal was to address you know, for the minority communities and showing that hbc use the value of HBCU, hbc use not just in education, but the relationships that you cultivate that ultimately last a lifetime, encouraging folks UH to really zero in and lock in on getting a higher education. Because everybody can't be an athlete, everybody can't be a rap star, everybody can't be, you know,

an actor and actress. There's a lot of media. You know, you might have three percent of graduates being from hbc US, but we make up a boatload of professional positions, and you know, in in in the world of you know,

dentistry and education and things of that nature. And so when you look at it from that perspective and understand that somebody in my position that's on national TV and national radio every year, with the profile that I have and the kind of reach that I have where I'm reaching over fifty to seventy five million people per week based on, you know, the kind of content that I put forth on ESPN. They asked me to be a part of it, and so once we became a part

of it, it just took off. Rashawn and concert with Earl and Ashley and all of those officials that I mentioned. They're having an HBCU fair where you know that Friday, the same Friday because I'm taking first take my television show on the every we thing, and I'm bringing that down live to the event. I got Magic Johnson coming, I got Troy Vincent, the executive VP of the NFL, who's a brother who used to play for the Philadelphia Eagles. He's coming on down. The list goes on and on.

Supportive of it. Oh well, ESPN is big about that. They recognized the fact that black folks make up close to fifty percent of the ESPNS audience, So it would behoove the espn UH to definitely catered to that audience to some degree. And obviously who I am, I'm incredibly connected to the African American community because I'm not just a black man, I'm a brother and they know what time it is in that regard, and so if I'm gonna be involved in it, why not be involved in

And then everybody just stepped it up. You have this college fear. You bring your your grades along with your S A T, A C T schools and you could get a scholarship on the spot. You could get enrollment in the hbc USED on the spot. You have a you know, battle of the bands, marching bands are coming and stuff like that. And I just want to read off real quick. These nations schools, Albany State, these are all schools that will be participating in HBCU Week this Friday.

That's right. Albany State University, Barber Scotia College, Benedict College, but through Cookman College, Bouie State University, Cheney University, Clark Atlanta University, Copton State University, Delaware State University, Hampton Hampton, Howard, Lincoln University, all three of them, more House College, Morgan State University, Norfolk State University, North Carolina A and T University, North Carolina Central, Spellman, still Men, Tuskegee, University of Maryland,

Eastern Shore, Virginia State, West Virginia State, Wildie College. And of course my alma materel Winston Salem State. So that's I'm an alumnus of Delaware State University. Why did you decide to go to Winston Salim State? Well basketball scholarship? You know, I I believe it or not. I went to F I T. Fashion Institute, the head technology at the high school, Thomas Constallation in the house, I didn't do that great, thank god they didn't they thank god,

and didn't burn somebody's house down. But you know, but the thing is is that I was while I was at Thomas Um, not at Thomas after I graduate from Thomas Edison. Coming out of high school, I was like five nine, a hundred and thirty pounds. Man. I was a small our time, but I could really shoot you to the I was getting scholarship office, obviously, but f I T. Fascions Institute of Technology. But I used to

laugh about that. But I had two advantages. Okay, Number one, the basketball team was really the only male population in the school from everybody else. Everyone else was either female or they were homosexuals not interested in the females. So that left the females to the basketball team. So we were very very we were in Okay, and last but not least we were. It was junior college and we were ranked fifteenth in the nation. And so the year I was there, we were thirty five and four. We

were doing our thing and what have you. And then a guy by the name of Howard funny Kit he used to play for Winston Salem State and big house games in the seventies. He kept a good relationship with the coach, brought me down for a tryout. Um the coach put me on the basketball floor against the starters. I dropped seventeen straight three pointers and he and he gave me a scholarship on the spot. That's how I

ended up and went to Salem State. That was that was my brightest moment, because from that point forward, I cracked my kneecap in half and I would never the same. And that was that. What do you think it's gonna take for more athletes to go to HBCUs makes it more attractive. Well, I think that, first of all, the big time athletes are always going to go to the big time universities because that's where the money and the exposure is, which facilitates, in their eyes, positioning yourself to

get paid in more more immediately down the line. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an abundance of opportunities for a lot of folks, particularly from our communities, to choose to go to an HBCU and make something of themselves and make some noise as well. And I think that's the most important thing. I think you're gonna see a lot of people. The more HBC user advertised, the more the expenses of HBC used in comparison to those

bigger schools come into play. I think once those things I highlighted, folks like myself and others help because we show that just because you're from an hbc U doesn't necessarily limit your opportunities. You could go out there and Sean and corporate America just like anybody else. If you have a degree, understand what it really really means, it really really speaks to you have the ability to read,

to write, to comprehend. It's the internships that define your passion and your skill set, and that doesn't have anything necessarily to do with where you get the education from. It has a lot more to do with the opportunity

that's given to you. So I think it's important that people like myself and others really push Corporate America to take a look at talent emanating from the HBCU communities and and more importantly, to make sure that those opportunities are highlighted, make sure that its visual is visualized and visible to the average person out there when you talk

about where they're going to college or whatever. You if you see a brother or a sister making good with themselves and advertising that it's gonna take a collective effort. You know how they talk about how it takes a community to raise everybody. Well, if you've got essence and you got jet and you got Ebdy and all of this stuff, don't just put the president in the United States on the cover when they're black or the popular

actress of somebody else. Put a star in Corporate America from an HBCU on the cover, Put them on radio, put them on television, when you're highlighting what cats are doing. Ultimately, that level of exposure is what makes somebody says, hum, I could go there and achieve just what I would achieve if I went to an Ivy League school or something considered a little bit less than an Ivy League school. I'm a perfect example that I go. First take, I

used to go against my man, Skip Baylors. Skip Baylors went went to Vanderbilt that was like the Ivy League of the South. Max Kellerman is his replacement. He went to Columbia. In my mind, I smoked both. So I mean, let's since you both brothers both went to HBCUs, like, what's the experience closely? Like? What I think for me

personally is this. I mean, I think that when we walk outside in corporate America, when we walk out our front doorsteps and we travel away from our neighborhoods, what you find it's not like look and at whites, looking at Latinos or anybody else and always feeling there against you. That's not it. It's that the level of brotherhood and sisterhood and family that you get from being around your

own is absent. So when you go to an h b C. U. It's one thing to go to class every day and learn from professors, but when you're learning from professors that look like you, When you're going to class with students that look like you, and there's a certain cultural identity that you share with one another, experiences that you can relate to with one another, you build, you know, friendships and cultivate friendships and things of that

nature from that. And as those things grow and it elevates, you elevate, and you elevate together and you elevate as a group. And so this friendships that never leave you. And you know what, you're gonna everybody's gonna fall, You're gonna hit roadblocks, etcetera, etcetera. You might even fall to an abyss, but you know the people around you are not gonna allow you to fall if they can help themselves.

And more importantly, chances are even if you do fall, this going to be somebody there to lift you up. And that's not to say somebody from a different community doesn't have the heart and the passion and the god fearing mentality to do that for you as well. But we know how it is coming from African American communities throughout this nation. Do we believe they're gonna do that.

Hell no, we hope they will. We think it's possible and whatever, But our belief system doesn't lend itself touch towards us thinking they're going to look out for us and they're going to watch our back. We not only believe it with one another, we expected. We're genuinely hurt when it doesn't happen, because there's a level of comfort

that we have with one another. And when you have that on a collegiate level, when you go in the class and you you got a job, work study or after school job, and instead of living on campus, you want to get your own apartment. It's usually with a roommate in college. You're usually not living alone when you in college. So there's a level of trust and all

of these other elements that come to it. That speaks to family, that speaks to a brother hood and sisterhood and things of that nature, and those are the kind of things that you carry with you wherever you go. I got boys that I went to college with. They're still my boys. I've been out of college since nineteen ninety two. Still my boys. Boris and Mark and Ski and Spank and the crew. He's all my boys talk all the time. And then you said my nickname in

college was Saul. That's what they called me. They don't know, they don't. They only know stephen A because they see me on TV. If they picked up the phone, it would be Saul. What's up? That's what they called me. So what was it like growing up on Hollers Queen? Saul? It was great about it. I think that when you think Hollis Queens, we only thought like run DMCs, like your name is right there. Jam Master J was was

great friends with my late brother. My late brother, Bagel died in a car accident in nineteen ninewo and El Passo, Texas. Jam Master J lived with one hundred yards up on to thirds between one one eleven and Hollis. I lived on to thirds between one eleventh and one twelve, just a block of way. So we so we grew up. You know, I knew like even though I knew Run because uh, you know his his lady lived right across

the street from me from me and my family. D m C. I didn't know as well until later on, but run DMC, you know from Hollers Queen's they was you know jam Master J. We knew him very well. I knew when you know, jam Master Jay called me when my brother died. I mean I knew him very well. So my heart was real broken when that stuff happened to him. But you know, they represented Hollis very well. But I got news for you, L. L. Co J.

Farmers Bullevards. Farmers Bullevards five minutes away from Hollis. You can walk to Farmers. We never wanted to. We rode the bike we're gonna trying to walk and blocked whatever. But that was inspired me for growing queens because like the first raps, they were like the first rap superstars, and they were right from the community of queens that like not what Well, first of all, it showed you that, you know what I mean, like like like you know

what the saying was from Hollos to Hollywood. You know. So it's like if you you know, if they can make it. They gave you the inspiration to believe that you can make it. Um. You know, we were surrounding a lot of people believe because they ain't the projects, per say, you got single homes, single family homes, things of that nature. But the streets of Holland Queens as you well know, it's Violet. You know I grew up with drug dealers. I grew up, you know, with a

lot of violence. Some of like a couple of my cats are crippled to this very day. They caught a couple of bullets, a couple of cats to dad. They you know, they got taken out the wrong way. They were involved in that life. The reason why I never speak ill of it and my relationship is different is because I was an up and coming do trying to play ball and trying to make it and the drug dealers would the one who saved my life because they kept me away from the game. They were like, you

go ball like we would be. I would. I would always practice the rims of one ninety two one too, because everybody like Mark Jackson and the corner they were had a Conno park and you have some cats like Seth and them. They were at Jamaica and then me Seth and Seth and his brother was really good ball. But they end up having the one eye injury. One of his eyes was really bad or whatever. But he went to Fresno State. He was something special. Lloyd sweet

Pete Daniels from that neighborhood. Remember where the star he was. They were talking about this brother was the second coming. We all grew up together. We used to go over there play at I S eight Hillside Avenue and all the time. I mean, this is this you bring that, bringing us, bringing us, you bringing back a lot of memories.

But I'm just saying that, you know, back then, you know we were in Hollis and what have you in you just had cats that I was at one ninety two and it was no full court, it was just the full course was at the Connor Park in Jamaica. The half courts three on three games was really at PS one ninety two Junior High School and the drug dealers all over Hollis and all they had was one street light. That was the light at night that you

had to look at to shoot jump shots. And that's how my jump shot improved because the only light was across the street. So I was basically shooting in the dog with a little light coming in. And I remember didn't have any nets. He knows, I know what I'm talking about. The don't have any nets at all, So it was just the rim and all you could see was the round the rim So shooting in broad daylight was like butter to me because it was like, wait a dog, and now it's broad daylight lights everywhere. Oh

I got this. They don't even know, so it was like that, but they could have. And you know, sometimes it was shooting sometimes cats and get taken out. All this kind of stuff was going on, and literally four or five nights a week, you had some of the big time drug dealers in the neighborhood that literally had a two hour radios where they would not let anybody come in the park and bother me because they said he trying to do something. Let that man shoot the

jump shots. And then when it was time to do business, they would say, Yo, you gotta go, you gotta go right now. But they would always give me like two hours a night, like five nights a week. So that's the world that I come from when I speak about the streets and things of that nature. Everybody act like his son New. You got young knuckleheads out here acting like his son New. It ain't new. We've been to this game, We've seen this game. We know what this

game is about. We just grew up and at at some point in time you're gonna get older and you're gonna grow up. So it kind of hit home when you did that story in Carlton Hines when he when he passed away, it was familiar to you. Well, the Carlton Hans story for those that don't know, I was a high school riter for the New York Daily News and Carlton Hans was a star basketball player in New York City and he was murdered. He was gunned down

in broad daylight. Brother rolled up on him two o'clock in the afternoon in the bronx, blew his head off, right in broad daylight, front of everybody. Wasn't even hot, and didn't even run away, blew his head off and walked away. He didn't give a damn. And so I did the story where I interviewed his mother and interviewed his family and what have you. And they gave me pictures of him in the casket. They gave me pictures

of his funeral and all of this other stuff. So the New York Daily News turned it into this big, big, huge end zone piece, and that was a big story that helped propel my career be as they was wondering, how did I get a story like that. Well, it was very very simple. I'm from these streets, so it was nothing for me to go and talk to them and let them know this is who I am, this is the story that I'm trying to tell, And no way am I trying to compromise you anyway like that.

But I am a journalist. I have to do my job, and this is what they're saying. The hard part of that particular story. Even though everybody the neighborhood knew that he was somewhat involved in the drug game, probably against his will because he was he had star power as a basketball player, you know, his mother didn't know, and

more importantly, she refused to believe it. She was truly a mother that loved her child, loved him, you know, tremendously, and just couldn't stomach and absorb the thought of him being involved in that game. And I was like, this is what it is. This is what the police is telling me. And not only that, you're from the streets where you're gonna get your sources. Like, it's nothing for me to go into the streets and talk to a cat, you know how they roll. They're like, just don't say

my name. You ain't here from me. But and I'm like, I can't tell you where I got this from. But I had numerous sources that said, yo, we dealt with him, we know this is what it was just and they you know, they let me know. You know, now you know they're representing right, you know, don't you can tell the truth. But don't miss disrespect himself. Of course not, of course not because I ain't trying to violate anybody. So that's really what happened. And that's the story he

was alluded to it. So growing up in Queens, you know, you're exposed to run D n C l O's right down the block. What early records were you impressed by on the hip hop Sucker m C S Was it the ain't no questions that that changed the game idea? Of course, you know all of that stuff. Walked this way when they collaborate and walked this way was really really big because you on the song with white boys when nobody trying to hear that. Nobody's trying to hear that.

After me, what the hell is that? Time? Like this, He's like, this ship is kind of fly, you know what I'm saying. It was like when you first because if you if you saw it, you wasn't trying to feel it, you know, and you saw him standing there hard and all of us because I got my tour rotating, I ain't doing it right. But you know, it was like it was like, you know, they just then You're like, what the hell is this? But then you listen and and and and then you're like, this is gonna you know,

I gotta I gotta admit that. And so all of a sudden, that changed the game because it opened the floodgates to the amalgamations that that people were putting forth, like even though it wasn't this was black on black when l L you know, did hey level were boys two men mercy? I mean, it's it's like it was

special exactly. I see. For me, I went to Thomas Edison, My sister Abigail went to Van Buren, All my other sisters went to Jackson, All my other sisters went to Jackson, my cousins went to Jackson, my boys went to jack Jackson was like jail in the nineties and eighties. Exactly. It was wild. I mean, you talk about Trevor port Wand and all those boys playing back the basketball team, you know. I mean it was it was big time,

no question, but there was nothing else that Jackson. For you, you was just a hard cat that had to deal with that kind of life. If you was gonna you're gonna go to Jackson, your brother, you definitely get in a fight. Your sister, You're probably gonna get in a

fight too. That's the way Jackson was. You know, Edison was a bit more structured than whatever, but it was like that, and so you know, for me it was but to get back to your point about run DMC and the records that really resonated k R S one I love, I had love for him. I didn't like when he came out and admitted that, you know, rock Cam had been writing lyrics. And that's a problem because we, you know, we thought it was We thought it was more authentic than anything else. You know, am I lying?

We thought so when he came out and admitted that, somebody else correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was rock him. I'm not sure, but what I'm saying KRS. When he came out, I wasn't talking about any particular song. It's just that he was so brilliant with his delivery. We all thought it was him, and when he acknowledged it was somebody else that was helping them, it wouldn't have been bad if he had admitted that from day one.

It's no big deal. It's a collaboration. But when you acknowledge that suddenly that somebody had been helping you all along, we were us. It's not so much that it's The rule is just be a front about it. There's nothing wrong with it, nothing wrong with it whatsoever. You want to collaborate with genius, that's cool, but you had to

you know, there were people that were accusing him. If I remember correctly, If my memories have been staying, I apologize because I have been thinking about this in years. This is new to me. But I was like, you can't be acting like you the genius, accepting all that praise about being the genius for somebody else's work. That's how people interpreted it. But I'm no expert in that, so I could be wrong about how and interpreting that. But that's what I remember. But you love hip hop

and soil, I mean I was hip. I here to say definitely hip hop, heavy D and the boys, black coffee, no sugar, no crap. I got a girl in knee down with my thing. I mean, come on now, I mean, that's the world I come from. That that's the world that I come from. And you know, and and for me, it kind of helped formulate I don't want to say my business acumen, because I don't consider myself to be the greatest entrepreneur in the world at least yet, but I do think that it helped phrase and shape and

formulate my business thinking. From the standpoint, I appreciated the fact that we have brothers making an honest, legitimate living, creating and all that. I mean, I find I'm like, is it legit? You know, when people talked about lyrics and stuff like that, well, first of all, you didn't want to give hip hop love when they weren't even using curse words. Then when they were using curse words,

you were sweating. You were sweating that. Then when they engaged in what you called gangster wrap, you had a problem with that. When Marlon Manson and that was raving about worshiping the devil, you damn thing. So I'm like, you know, it ain't consistent, you see what I'm saying. And I looked at it from that perspective, and it

was like something's missing here. So I always appreciate it, and I still appreciate to this very day the fact that brothers Insists continuously find ways to survive and ultimately prosper unlike any any culture, any race of people that has ever existed on this planet. And I'm proud of it. Of course, you think people need to modify themselves sometime, not be so extreme. Make sure that you dance the dance that you got to, because it's not just about you.

You might make it, but thousands, if not millions upon others who following your footsteps may not do it if they conduct yourself and when you conduct yourself, so you need to be careful about that. But I still respect the game, and I respect the hustle, and I think all of us should because the heat. When you said people can't you can't necessarily be a jay Z or a Shack or a Kobe, but you could be stephen A, I didn't recall catching any heat for that. To be

got honest with you, I thought people appreciate it. Where I was coming from. Jay Z is a one in a billion dude. Chances are you are not going to be close to being a billion You damn you aren't gonna get a Beyonce that that that that these are dreams and fantasies reached by the very very few on the planet Earth. Okay, and he's one of those dudes that's just that lucky, that fortunate, and more importantly, that blessed because he's earned a lot of what he has had.

But but but you look at guys, and you don't have to be a jay Z to be successful. But this dude is off the charts, the Kobe's, the Shacks of the world, they off the charts, etcetera, etcetera. They are extremely gifted individuals that was able to take what they what their gifts are, and materialize that into something far more profound. And you could make the argument that I've done the same thing in my respective genre. But my response to that is all I did was bust

my ass, work hard, Okay, pound the pavement grind. I got left back in the fourth grade, man, because I had a first grade reading level. I graduated from college with a mass communications degree. I went from not being able to read and write, meaning not comprehend what I'm reading, okay, to being a professional journalist. Okay, so I'm like, wait a minute, you can do that? You can do that? You know you can't. You can't be the genius that

Jay Z is as a rap artist. You can't be the ultra talented dude that Kobe Bryant was as a basketball player. Michael Jordan's Michael Jordan's shack. You can't be seven one, three fifty. And the most dominant force of this error is Shaquille O'Neil. But can you be Stephen A. Smith? Can you go to an hbc U? Can you get

can you graduate with honors? Can you pound the pavement and work your way from being a high school journalist to a colle as journalists to a pro sports journalist to an NBA columnist to a general sports columnist to a radio and can you can you do that? Yes? You can? And you I don't know if you can ever find another one of those dudes that I mentioned, but you can find a thousand Stephen A. Smith's in my estimation, you can do that. But you've risen to

the top. Man, Like when you look at it now, like what how do you what do you think the key has been? And what is it like to be in a position because I saw you had a quote, because actually, Michael Cane of you, you said, no one commensurre to level of my hunger. I wake up every day like I'm starving. I'm on a mission to be cemented as the greatest of what I do. I'm incredibly hungry. Those who stand in my way. I feel bad for them already. You know, well, first I meant every word

I said. I really did. Um, I think I am the best, but it's because I know I'm not. That's my advantage. UM, So many people arrive. You know, I'm a journalist. I started off making fifty two thousand a year, and now I'm making millions. So clearly I've been blessed, and I understand that. But I truly, truly believe the reason for my success is because I never take it for granted. I never ever assume I arrived. I know that I say what I say to y'all, and it's

not that I don't mean it. I'm saying I don't wake up thinking like that. Every morning. I don't wake up saying I've arrived. I wake up saying, oh, I got stuff to handle, I got stuff to prove. I got stuff to validate. I got stuff that I'm interested in ascending too. This is what I do. I mean, I'm looking at myself right now. I started off as a newspaper journalists. I advanced to a television personality. I went from that to a television host and a columnist.

I went from that to a television host and columnist to a radio host. Now I'm hosting my television show when number one in every major demographic from ten am to noon in all of television, cable or broadcast. My radio show has blown up, podcast, YouTube, social media connections blowing up. So what am I doing. I'm in a process of starting to write my book. I'm getting ready

to jump start my own production company. It took a while because I had to travel a different road than most, you know, going through the terrains of corporate America, being restricted, held back, denied the opportunity to spread my wings and fly. Which is why I have so much respect for some of these young cats out here who are doing their thing, because the one thing that I don't think enough young cats get credit for is this willingness to bet on themselves.

I'm always the safe, cautious dude. You know I got two daughters. What's my attitude. I live by one mantra when it comes to them. If they're broke, if they're hungry, rather it's because I'm starving. I don't eat until they eat. I'm not comfortable until they're comfortable. I'm not secure until they're secure. Everything is about them. First. If I got a ride, I bought a new car, it was after

I made sure their mom had a new car. Saying I got my house, that was after I made sure that their mama and them had what didn't need, they needed they needed to have. That is I don't play because I was raised in an environment by my mother and my four older sisters where I saw my mother struggle in a fashion where I'm just so old school in certain ways, I don't mind an independent woman. For example, I want you to get yours, have your job, have

your career, whatever the case may be. But if you're a woman in my life, I'm paying the bills. I'm paying the bills. I got you. If you're gonna be with me, I got you because I want you to know that you have the freedom to go out there and to be all you can be. You see what I'm saying without having to worry about things I believe as a man's responsibility. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you that you gotta go out there and do for a woman and do stuff for her that

you can't do. That's not what I mean. What I'm saying is, if you're making a million and she making a hundred thousand dollars, why is she paying bills and she in your house. I'm not talking about shopping and stuff like i'm talking about talking about. I'm talking about necessity, relieving a woman of the peace of mind. Where does that come from? It comes from the fact that my mother never had it. My mother never had it, and so because mom never had it until two thousand and five,

when they gave me my television show. To this day, it was the proudest moment that I've ever had in my life. They signed me to a contract to do the show. Quite frankly, that was on ESPN two from August of two thousand and five to Janior of two thousand and seven. I signed that contract at the ABC building on sixty six Street in New York and I signed it like at three o'clock in the afternoon and they were like, where you going. It took me two hours.

I was heading the Queens. My mother was a nurse, registered nurse for twenty five years and she worked at Queens General Hospital, and she was living off her pension, but she would work there at the PL Center part time just to have pocket change, because she liked to go to Gain with Atlantic City and play the slot machine, or she liked to slave a little bit of money and go on to cruise or whatever the case may be. And my proudest moment. I've been on this earth for

fifty one years. I've accomplished a lot of things, but the greatest accomplishment that I've ever achieved in my life was that day in April of two thousand and five when I had signed a contract to do to fright quite frankly, that August, and the minute I signed that contract, the first thing that I did was got in my car and I drove to Queens and I drove to the PL Center on two hundred on two two D Street in one twelve PL Center, and I walked by everybody,

and I walked downstairs and my mother was behind the counter, and I said, let's go. You ain't waker no more. It's over. I said, I looked at the balls and says, she ain't him on let's come. Your vacations are on me. First take. You know, has been very hip hop friendly. You know, through the success the theme song incorporated a lot of rappers like was espn uh welcoming to the idea of incorporating more hip hop into the show. They were a bit reluctant initially, but they knew what our

audience was. You know, again, you had an abundance of people who would watch it, no question about it. But you know, at least fifty then was black and clearly the younger demographic, particularly when Skipp and I were together. They gravitated to our show. And so for me personally, even though Skit was always receptive to it and you had rappers and others that would come on the show at that particular moment in time, it really elevated once I Rock and it was a sticking point for me

for a reason. It wasn't just the hip hop community. It was blacks folk. It was black folks period. I had said to them, I'm I'm very particular, and I'm glad you asked that question. See we're sitting there his brothers to right now. I'm very, very big on speech. I can't stand when a brother opens his mouth and says, you know what I'm saying before he says something. Know the hell I don't. You didn't say anything yet, speak, influence sentences, act like you have some semblance of a

command for the English language. Because I'm not into all of that. Because why in corporate America, when you're going out there to get a job or whatever the case may be, these are casts that you're communicating with. You know, you got sensational hip hop artists, actors and actresses and people in the entertainment industry that might be able to get away with being challenged in that department to some degree, or the athletic world, but their gifts speak for them.

Nine of us have to present ourselves in a certain fashion first before we have the opportunity to showcase our talents. And so because of that, understand that you're cutting yourself off with the needs the second that you don't focus on presentation, how you look, how you speak, how you present and carry yourself. We're sitting there talking about HBCUs. That's one of the things that hbc US breach. My professors at went to Salem State. We're stickless for that.

If I spoke grammatically incorrect, that corrected me. If I sat up there and said, you know what I'm saying, No, we don't, you didn't say anything. They did all of these things. And so I carry on to each one, teach one to who much is given, much is required. You take those things into consideration, because what you're doing is training somebody mentally to be prepared for the world that awaits. And I don't think that we do that

nearly as much as we should. So when ESPN would bring on these artists, the first thing I was looking at is who can talk see what people get lost? Snoop Dog. They talk about Snoop Dog and how he gives new meaning the green room, because we have you ever talked to Snoop dogs? You have any idea how intelligent this brother is? You got fifty cent Oh he got shot nine times? Have you ever sat down and talked to fifty cents? You have any idea how brilliant

does brother is? Of course you see stuff like that. And then all of a sudden, I said, why are we stopping there at the hip hop in street. I know Morris Chestnut, you know, I know Omar Epps, I know Michael Eagerly, I know Jason Williams. I know these cats. I say, I'm like, you see, you know Boris kjoe A, Marii Hardwick and the sensational job he's doing with Power and Star. That's my brother. I mean, you see all

of these cats. You know, they take care of themselves, their business minded, their business savvy, they're brilliant at what they do, and they're cognizant of imagery. We see that there. I'll go back to Snoop Dogg. Let me tell you how much love I got for a Snoop dog A doctor Dre for example, billionaire in the hip hop industry now courtesy Apple Beats and all of that stuff. You understand, never of get the fact that the brothers a brilliant musician,

I think the greatest. Okay, this brother is a businessman. You understand. He ain't trying to be out there front and center, but he don't hide his brilliance as a businessman. And folks who pay attention to the world to business in the entertainment industry have no choice but to take notice of him. We got a guy like Snoop and people want to judge, all right, he's smoking weed because Stephen, they constantly speaks about staying off the weeds. I ain't

say nothing about him. I'm talking about the athletes that lose money because of it. I'm not talking about anybody else. So I bring him on to talk about it because I want people to understand. Listen to this brother elocute and articulate his points of view. Listen to him and understand how brilliant he is. He went from doing lord knows what in Compton and Long Beach to being on a show with Martha Stewart. This is Snoop though, So I'm just saying but, but, but understand the brilliance that

comes along with it. He sees the forest from the trees, and this brother ain't hesitant to reach back and to try to get you to see the forest from the trees. And So when I look at stuff like that, and I look at the brilliance of a cat like jay Z and so many others, I'm thankful and I'm grateful for the relationships that I have with them because I bring them on first take. It's not for me I'm getting ratings without them. I ain't had them on in

a while. It didn't stop my show from being number one, it didn't stop me from winning, it didn't stop me from getting my paper. But I bring but I bring them on because any chance that I get, because I want people to see the potpourri of people from the African American community that come on center stage on national television live and can articulate and talk about anything. Had to change on a few months ago, the brother was an a student graduated in three years ball to at

Alabama State. All anybody want to talk about, it's to change. You know who this brother is. You know who this brother is. So it's like it's to bring cats on and my and they all and I my love and appreciation for all of these dudes. I cannot put it in the words because every single one of them has heard the same message that I'm telling you guys, and they all signed on your steven A. We know exactly what you're trying to do. I what you need, and I'm like this what I need because I need this

projected and they will all in and motors. I didn't just say hip hop artists. I said hip hop, artists, actors, actresses, athletes. They come on to help me deliver and disseminate a message that HBC used and anybody associated or willing to help the African American community and impoverished communities throughout our nation. These brothers have assists, have all aligned and to come together in their own way to help us disseminate that message to the masters. And I can't thank them enough.

And I will always be grateful. And as long any show that I'm on first take on anything else that I'm doing, they will always have a place as long as I have a place. Do you remember a conversation with Drake at Game one of the NBA Finals because he seems like y'all was caught. Yeah, yeah, we were talking. He was he was planning on coming on. He didn't want to come on because I was doing those NBA

specials regame. Remember that he didn't want to come on because they were like they wanted them to come on and he wouldn't return their calls or whatever. I'm like, well, that's your problem. I'm just gonna walk over and Breake knows me. So I rolled over on him and he was like for you sure, But He didn't want to come on until the finals was over because he didn't want to do anything that jinks the Raptors because Katie was talking about coming back. Clay Thompson on one leg

was dropping twenty eight, you know, stuff like that. He didn't want the jinks. I said, no, you gotta rush. You come on when you want to come on. As long as you're gonna come on before the series, by the series over, I'm cool with it. The problem was the series was over in Golden State and he didn't travel with the Raptors. He was only at home games. He never came on the road. Otherwise I would have had them are just so recently squashed. Be for Katie.

You know what, you don't want those problems. He didn't. He didn't. But but but but the thing about it is is that that that kind of guy, Mr Construe. What happened was is that k D and y'all should watch it when we're on the boardroom together. You but what happens all you need to know and give you a little taste of it. You know. Jay Williams was to moderate and Jay Williams like, you went there, man. You called this move the weakest move you had ever

seen by a superstar in sports history. When he and I was like, yeah, I said it, and I meant it with him sit right across from me, I'm like, I'm not backing up. I know what I said. But what people didn't realize, and even k D at the time didn't realize, is that I wasn't knocking him like he's weak, he can't play. I was saying, you are so great. How could you do this to the game. There's no competition. There's no competition. There's no competition. This

Kade co walk around average thirty. I think Kad average thirty on one leg, I really do. He's six and eleven with a seven six wingspan. Who's a sniper. What you're gonna do with him? What you're gonna do? So

I look at it that way. But where the beef came in was because he was doing a commercial in l A and he told catch he won out right, So I said he wanted out of Okay, see right, I went too far by saying it might be l A. I never said he was going to l A. I said I think he might go to the Lakers because I knew he had a house in l A. And I'm thinking, there's no way he can end up on Golden State. Who would do that? They already loaded. So he sat up there and said, I don't talk to him,

my family don't talk to him, blah blah blah blah. Well, first of all, now you went to Dann far. I don't appreciate that disrespect. Now you're going too far. First of all, you're speaking out of pocket because you're inaccurate. I was just with you at forty forty two months ago, jay Z and all of them, we were all together. What you mean we don't talk. Secondly, your mother has been on my show three times. Thirdly, your brother wanted a tour. I mean yes, in talking about we mean

you don't talk to me. So don't don't disrespect me like that. And if you if you don't want to do stuff out, don't put it out. But damn you didn't have to go there. And so when he came at it like that, what I was saying, when everybody was like, you don't want to mess with me or whatever, what I was saying is you're reacting the words. Well I have the words and the platform to disseminate it. All day. You don't want no piece it is. That's what I was saying. Wow, I wasn't talking like I'm

gonna fight him. I'm saying. I'm saying, you are reacting towards This is my domain. This is what I do. You see what I'm saying. And I got a two hour platform on radio and television for two hours each day, that's twenty live hours a week. I get to talk about you. You really want some of this? If you're gonna react to these words, what do you want? And you got idiot trolls out there that we're trying to interpret it like I'm talking about fighting. So I'm about

nine inches your it. You understand I'm saying, Yeah, I know he can skinny, but damnity, he's none. He's none. I don't think I could be Katie. But it's just like it's just that kind of nonsense. And then you've got a lot of cats that are just looking for an excuse to come at me. And it's like, I'm a grown man and I ain't trying to fight, and I ain't no punk. You know where I'm from, where we from, You know, somebody kind of catch you. It's not about whether or not you can beat somebody or not.

It's what you're willing to take an ass whippon for. It's about principle. You think you're gonna just you're gonna just punk me. That ain't gonna happen. I know that I'm not getting personal. I'm not talking about your mama, I ain't talking about your family, and I talk about your personal but I'm talking about basketball. This is my job.

You ain't had no problem when that show said something, when that show said something, when that shows something, that podcast, that radio show that you know what I'm saying, that's a personal problem. You can't. If you're gonna have a problem with somebody's principal position, then have a problem with it. Don't have a problem with it just because they got

the platform. If two people say something about me, and one person got a million audience of a million, and another person has an audience of fifty thousand, I'm a fairly exact same way about both. I'm not gonna let one off the hook because they only got fifty people. If you have a problem with a principal position, then have a problem with it. And a lot of times in today's generation of athletes. Yo. Man, these brothers are so sensitive, and I mean everything is about brand and

everything is about you know, how you look. And then you got the nerve to come at casts like you're the only person connected to the streets, like you're the only person that could do something. I'm not about the violence. I'm not about doing I'm not I'm a law bidy citizen, but I am from Hollers I am from the streets in New York. I do know an awful lot of

people throughout this nation. And so if anybody thinks that they is gonna hurt me because you got a problem with what I said about basketball or football, and you think that you're gonna get away with that, be my guest. Be my guest. And I hope it never comes to that because I'm not a violent person and I'm never trying to be that way. But I'm certainly not gonna be a punky that I'm a reporter by trade, I'm a my virtue of my job. I'm a commentator. I'm

a punditt. I have a license to speak on these things they literally pay me to talk about, literally pay me for it. Don't think for one second that you're gonna stop me from doing my job. It's not gonna happen. What was the transition like for you from like when you reporter earlier, you behind the scenes more right now in this age where even your radio show you gotta videotape everything, everything is on camera. What's what's that transition been like for you? The biggest transition for me has

been the celebrity that I've captured. It was never my intent. I'm not that dude. I'm the guy who once went through the to the White House correspondence, then through the back door to avoid the red carpet. My lawyer jumped all over me. Her name is John nine Bonds because partner based out of d C. She jumped all over me. She was so furious. Um, I just didn't want to do that. And she was like, it's a different world. She said, you're bigger than some of these marquee athletes

you cover. She was like, it's just that simple. The world has changed. You cannot run from this stuff because, believe it or not, I am a relatively private dude. Um. I like to do my job. I like to talk about the game. I don't like to get in people's personal business. I'm not gonna tolerate anybody being in mind. I do my job, I go home, live with my family and friends and and my inner circle and leave it at that. And you know, for me, I'm not

about that kind of sizzle. But life has changed. And in the world that we're living in, podcasts, bloggers, uh, social media, plus radio, television and beyond um does stuff has gotten so large. It's unbelievable to me. I never expected that to happen. You know. I was told that, you know, take away the top five athletes in the world, and I'm the most popular dude in China. You know, I've gotten calls from Africa and New Zealand and Australia and you know, uh, Indonesia. It's all over the place.

And I never expected this kind of thing to happen. And then you've got people they want autographs and pictures from other people. They want those things from me too, but also with me, they want to debate. They don't want to just and that's where that's where I could come across as a bit of loof or put off, as if you like you cat, you don't you try to get at me in the streets. I keep it moving. I don't want to have a conversation with you because I'm not trying to debate. I'm not going check me

out on TV or radio. That's one of the reasons I accept callers all the time, because I don't mind you calling me when I'm on the job. Don't bother me when I'm in public, don't bother me when I'm out with my lady, don't bother me when I'm doing anything like that, hide and by or a picture. I

get it. It's the conversation that I want to avoid because I'm trying to get away from all of that to conserve my energy, my focus, and to make sure that I'm inspired about doing my job done next day if I gotta work when I'm off from work, that I'm coming in to work the next day. Fatigued, how do you feel about the memes when you're constantly being I paid no attention to it of the time. I don't even know what memes are out there about me

until somebody shows it in the social media. Accept I accepted. I mean, I know they did the baby me and the baby stephen A. I thought that was people. You Sometimes your clips like the one uh we don't care, you know, I mean, it doesn't bother me. It doesn't listen. Man, from the moment Jay Farrell imitated me on Saturday Night Live, I knew it was over. I knew I was fresh meat for everybody out there. And it's like Jamie Fox with Cleveland A Smith and all of this stuff, this

crazy self, but I knew I was in for. But that's what comes with the tell ratory. Man, you can't sit in my position, and certainly not in judgment of who people are, but clearly in judgment of what people do. You can't sit in my position every day and then be ultra sensitive to people coming at YouTube. You gotta accept that, and I accept that with relative ease. When you first take in your mind start to become bigger than just a sports debase show, like a cultural phenomenon.

Like you went into it first year skipping, I did it. First year skipping, I did it when skipping O two, I will always be the number two. I would always be the number two to Skip Baylors. And the reason why I say that is because I would not have been on first take if it were not for him. ESPN and I had a contract disputed in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, they let me go. I was unemployed for a full year. Nobody would touch

me for two full years. I was kept off television, and it was Skip Baylor's who fought to get me back on television. And when he and when ESPN opened the doors to bring me back to ESPN, because my man Dave Roberts, who's actually my boss on First Take Now, he's a brother by the way from Detroit. He's the boss the First Take, the six o'clock Sports center and

all daytime programmer for ESPN Now. But he was over ESPN Radio in New York at the time, and so he pointed out how stephen A leaves of our audience left with him, stephen A returns of our audience returned. So this brother got his own audience. We need to have in me, etcetera, etcetera. They brought me back. And the second that they opened the door to bring me back to ESPN, they still kept me off television for

almost a year. And it was Skip Baylis in concert with Jamie Harwitz, the guy who used to run First Take, then left for NBC Today Show, then ultimately left for Fox Sports One. Now he's at the zone. Those two along with my man Galen Gordon, who's a producer, uh you know, he's a talent executive rather at the NFL network as we speak, those three separately, not collaborate actively, but separately four to have me on First Take permanently.

And so my my debt of gratitude always points to them, but especially the Skip Baylors because none of that has happened and if Skip Baylors didn't want it, and Skip Baylor's always says, look, man, he said, you can give me all the credit you want to, he said, but this show wouldn't be on the air if it wasn't for you. He came to me and he said, I know you want to do other things, but I need you. Could you give me three years? Three years is all

I need, he said, when you will skyrocket? He said, you're the only person that can do this with me. Would you please do it? And that's the reason I did First Take. And so anything any kind of success that I've had, any kind of money that I've been blessed and fortunate enough to make since that time, um, it's because of Skip Baylor's season. Well, the first sort of I had to get him off that Tebow tip. That Tim Tebow. He loved, he loved himself some Tim Tebow.

And I was like, we heavy doing that every day and I remember what you know, he would fight me on that and fight me on that because Tim Tebow was the ratings bonanza for first dake without me, but that was the only thing that really really rated. And I said to skip, I said, less than number one, if I may say so. I said, we don't just report the news. We make news. We decide what we're going to do, and our audience will follow us. That's

what we need to do. And I said, so we need to gravitate to the multitude of stories that are out there and touch on everything. And instead of being Team Tebow centric, because I ain't signed off for that, I said, let's be sports centric and let's be about the business of every single day. Nobody knows what the hell we're gonna say. We're gonna bring the rain, and I said, and everybody gonna click on with the number one purpose. We want people to click on for what

the hell of these dudes gonna say next? And I said, that is what will make a successful show. And to his credit, he followed me, but I let him know you can follow me all you want to. You are the patriarch of this show. First Take was being held down for nine years before I ever arrived because of you. And I don't give a damn what they say about me. My impact would I bring to the table. You are first take first, then me, and it will always be that way. Skip is that Fox. Now Skip could one

day end up back at first Take. If he came back at first Take, no matter what kind of star I am, I would move right aside and make room for him to be that dude, because I wouldn't be there if it wasn't for him. I got a lot of left for Max. Max is brilliant, Max is smart. Um. I think if you asked Max, Max would rather work with Marcella's Wily than me because that's his brother. No

offense take it whatsoever, because we cool. Um. But I did for Max what Skip did for me, and so as a result of that, when I look at Skip, there is always a level of homage that I'm going to pay to him, and I would never ever ever for that show anything else. That's different. Sports Center, NBA, Now that's me. But when it comes to first take, it will always always always be him first. You think, do you think of hip hop debate show could work

depends on what you're debating about. I don't think that debating just about hip hop um is enough because seeing the world of sports, at the end of the day, there's a finish line, touchdowns, wins, losses, playoffs, finals, championships, super Bowls, etcetera, etcetera. There's no such thing in hip hop you can I think that jay Z is probably the greatest. Some would say Biggie, some would say Tupacs,

some would say others. You see what I'm saying. And because of that, it's this never ending discussion which takes away the form of a debate. A debate has to have closure at some point. Hip hop doesn't provide closure. It's an on It's a never ending discussion, and with a debate format, there must be closure at some point. It doesn't have to be this day, but there must be a point where you're able to say, Okay, we're gonna see I'm telling you that Dallas calgarys an't winning.

No damn okay, but guess but guess what con February will know whether I'm right or wrong. Hip hop speaks about how he hates that it's not like not like where you can really look at his accolades and measure it, and hip hop will never do it. Now, I can tell you what could potentially work what eminem did with eight Mom. You know, with the movie, how they had those debates, how they had those battles on stage, or when you were watching Empire and Free to Gats was

battling Key. You know, if you've got something like that going on, then that's something that would because what happens is there's a winner or a loser. But with a debate per se, there's no definitive winner or a loser, and without that you cannot have a debate. I feel like ice c was a winner right now because he has his foot in the hip hop world and also with the Big Three. What are your what's your take on his venture into the sport? Well, I'm not objective

about him because that's my brother. I mean, he and I are pretty tight, and um I root for him. Me and LLL collaborate a lot talking about ice Cube in the Big Three and how we wish that he had more support. Unfortunately he doesn't get the support that he deserved. I think that you've got a myriad of the basketball leagues that are being financed or whether it be by the NBA or leagues associated with the NBA, the G League's college basketball, NC Double A, you know

other leagues that are out there. I think you have too many people trying to do the same things. And as a result of that, it's a challenge for him because you've got to get networks to buy in. And when it comes to a sport like basketball, if you don't have if you don't have ESPN, Slash, ABC and TNT ball it in, you're fighting the help battle because even though you got Fox Sports one and what have you, that's not what people are looking at Fox Sports one four.

They're looking at it the Skip show, They're looking at it from my brother Chris Carter show, First things first in the morning. They're looking at it for things of that nature. They're not looking at it for necessarily the programming. Because ESPN is perceived to be the monoliths we are.

The modelis actually that has the program and we got baseball, we got football, we got basketball, we got pros and college plus we're the worldwide leader and so you buy these contracts and what have you with these leagues, you have consistent and constant program I mean, my god, we aired women's softball for crime. You know same. I'm saying,

we got everything. And so when you look at it from that perspective, we epitomize what the world wide leader is and your default position when it comes to watching live programming is going to be to go to the direction of ESPN. That's why you had the UFC on Fox. Now it's on ESPN and ESPN Plus and it's a monster's ballooning more and more on the Ain't a White Why?

Because they connected with the world Wide Leader. When you have that kind of cash at you understand, if you're the Big three, it would behoove you to get something like that as an arm to disseminate your product. That's not what happened, and I think that's ultimately what's working against ice Q. Is it unfair that we measure like it seems like the greatness of talk about who's the greatest player? We measure MJ with the six rings and

being undefeating the finals. It's kind of set the new standards. Do you think that that's how that's a fair measurement to say this. I don't have a problem with it because he's MJ. And what I mean by that is that he ain't somebody that lucked up and captured six rings by coincidence. He was the dominant presence. He was the guy being targeted. And he didn't just beat competition, He annihilated. He stole hearts, He ruined franchises. You got

to remember something. MJ is a guy that won six rings. He was the NBA Finals MVP all six times. He never wants allowed a game seven in the process of doing all of that. Here are the franchises that would have a championship if it were not for him. The Cleveland Cavaliers. They had Mark Price, Larry Nance, Matt Dhardy, Greg Yelo, and those boys ruined their championship. That's why I took fifty two years with him to capture one.

With Lebron finally ended that curse. Okay, we got the New York next op he wings all of these boys. Now I know they lost to Houston when a Kimo Lodjan did it to them, and for some reason, Stark shot to an eighteen and one of eleven from three point range. But pat Riley should have played Derek Harper. I'm sorry, Rolando Blackman. I apologize because you brought him there to be a three point shooter. He shouldn't have been on the bench. You should have played them in

that game seven. Okay. But he was riding the wave that John Starks had produced in a game six loss, thinking he could do the same thing in game seven. That was a mistake on pat Riley's part. You have that going on Indiana, Reggie Miller, Rick Smiths, you know the the you know the big the Dale Davis and tod An, Tony O'Davis, you know, Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson and these boys. They as mulling them. They had had a championship if it wasn't for Jordan's. So that's the

Eastern Conference alright. West Utah were stocked in them alone. Phoenix were Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Marley and those boys. Seattle super so with Shawn, Gary Payton and Shawan Camp before he became Sewan Clump. Okay, So you got so disrespectful, just the truth. Just a big boy. That's a big boy, right. So you've got all of that going. I was saying because Clint KMP was a monster, he was something special.

But you, but you had all of that going on, and so I just gave you in the Portland Trailblazers with Clyde Drexler, Jerome Kirsey, Terry Porter, Kevin Duxworth and those boards, I just gave you seven. I just gave you seven franchises that would have had an NBA championship at least one if it were not for one man. I didn't say a team. I said one man, Michael Jordan's. If Mike good Jordan's wasn't with the Bulls, every single one of those teams would have won at least one title,

at least one. Kobe and Lebron, well, I think here's my here's my answer to that. You can't teach. You can't teach six eight to sixty. Lebron is something special. Lebron is all world belongs on the Mount Rushmore. But I would take Kobe in the last two minutes. Kobe was a killer. See here's what I hold against Lebron. And he's sensitive to that. That's why we don't really vibe because he too damn sensitive to stuff like this. I mean, you call him arguably the second greatest player

of all time into him, that's an insult. I don't have time for that, baby and nonsense. But here's the deal. When you look at Lebron, the thing that I religiously hold against him is that it took him years to develop what Kobe and Jordan naturally had, and that was the killer instant. And the proof was in the pudding. He had a aready, been in the league eight years, he had lost the title seven or eight years. He

had lost the title to the Dallas Mavericks. If you recall, it was an All Star game, and in the All Star Game, an exhibition game doesn't count against anybody. Lebron James had the ball and Kobe was like, let's go. Spread his arms and defended them. Let's go. And Lebron threw the ball away, trying to throw it to Carmelo Anthony in the corner in the left corner of the All Star Game in the closing minutes, and you saw Kobe, d Wade, Mellow, all of them descend on Lebron, what

you're doing. Take the rock, shoot the rock, whatever. Whatever. He was scared of the moment. He didn't want it. He didn't have that killer in him. Now what he has now, he's a killer. He ain't scared of nothing. He's a three time champion, He's been the nine NBA Finals. He clearly belongs on the Mount Rushmore of basketball annals. There is no question before Kobe does, even though he doesn't have as many rigs as Kobe's. Because Kobe's problem is that Kobe's compared to m J. Because Kobe was MJ.

He was the games, but he's just a lesser version, slightly lesser version than m J. Lebron ain't either of them. Lebron plays a different position. Lebron is the greatest small forward to ever played basketball. He wasn't a shooting guard. So it's hard to put Kobe ahead of him because we already have Kobe and m J. Just an elevated level. But the reason why I always hesitate to give Lebron extreme credit is because Kobe shot four air balls and layoff game. But he shot him. Remember he kept he

fairy Fairy failed. Michael Jordan's kept going forward, kept going forward at the sixty three at Boston Garden against Bird and then when Bird called them god in a basketball jersey. You see what I'm saying kind of Neither of them had to get beat up and abused the way that Lebron did and then ultimately helped by the big brother that was the Wayne Wade and the father type figure over a basketball franchise that was pat Riley in order

to get to that point. And that is what I take away from Lebron and give to the MJ's and the Kobe's of the world. He had to go through it before he became that man as an elite basketball player and champion. Kobe and MJ walked into the league with that killer in them. That is why I don't give it to Lebron over MJ. Now Jay Z compares himself to Michael Jordan's right, and you said, kills himself like the you know, the goat of hip hop. Yeah, Who's who's your number two? Who's the Lebron right now?

Biggie was son special man. Biggie was Son special. I mean when I listened to the music today and I imagine what Biggie would have done if he were alive. But then I listened to some of Tupac stuff and the times that we're living in the social consciousness elevating the way that it has the modern day athlete assisting in things the way that they do, they the way they would have gravitated to a Tupac because Tupac the activists never left him. See, Biggie was a hip hop artist.

Jay Z is a hip hop artist that will venture into other things because he's a businessman. But when it comes, but when it comes to Tupac, the activist was always, always, always a part of him. And because of that, I do find myself thinking if he were alive, he would be he would be you know, and see the thing. Listen Eminem winning on Trump too spectacularly, I might add, but I think something's taken away from it because he's white. It's not to say that his authenticity should be questioning.

I got a number love for Eminem. That's not to be questioned at all. What I'm saying is the masses appreciated where he was coming from. But they would have loved it more if that were brother that was doing the same thing, Which is why I bring up Tupac. If Tupac were alive and it'd done what Eminem did to undress Trump the way that that Eminem did. Oh it would it would be butter, you know. And before we go, you got said though before he was president,

Trump had gave you some really good career advice. Yeah, he showed up on quite frankly in two thousand and six. Um, I believe it was two thousand and six when he showed up on quite frankly and he sat in the chair for an hour. Let me touch said it proved that it wasn't that it wasn't a tooth pay you know. And you know, but we were in the green room and when we were in the green room and we were talking, Trump sat up there and he said little piece of advice. Well it was actually him and Kobe,

because Kobe had spoken to me. Um. After that, it came after Trump, but everybody was talking about, man, you're a great interview of blah blah blah. You're gonna be the next opera. And Kobe said, f all that oprah bleet harp o. Mhm, that's how I want you thinking. This is Kobe Bryant, and Kobe just a brilliant, brilliant dude, don't matter how younger he is. The brother's sensational speaks three different languages fluently. One of the all time greats

as a player and Oscar winners. I mean, I mean Kobe special man. But that's what he said, and so I remember that. But to get to your point about Trump, what Trump said at the time was, he said, I never want you to forget this, he said, and I want you to hold onto this mentality for as long as you possibly can, because it will always be applicable in the world of business. I said, I'm listening. He said. When you go to a bank and you borrow three million dollars and you can't pay it back, you got

a problem, he said. But if you go to a bank and you borrow three hundred million dollars and you can't pay it back, We've got a problem. He said. The moral of the story is the more you get people to invest in you, the more diligently they must work to ensure your success. And so that is incredibly aproposed to me, because ever since that time, once I got back from that two year high aightus away from ESPN, I'm meticulously one about the business of plotting my career.

And I'm not somebody that's the type of person that's gonna find that's gonna fight over every penny. Understand that when you're negotiating against conglomerates, they must win. I don't give a damn if it's a cup of coffee. They gotta win. They gotta have something that says, Okay, we want this, because if they don't, then they resent you for it, and they can make your life difficult once you sign the paper to commit yourself to them, which

is never a good position to be absolute. But in the process of saying all of that, please understand that it's perfectly all right and within your right to get yours, to get what you have earned. And so it's about knowing your value. It's about understand when I talk about first take, I didn't sit up there and say to you I'm near something. Now. I said to you, I'm number one. We rate number one from ten a m. To noon, and every major demographic you can find in

all of television, broadcasting and cable. My radio show has blown up, my social media stuff is blown up, my YouTube numbers off the chart, blah blah blah. So knowing that and knowing how they monetize it, I'm able to gauge what I'm worth in the ballpark. So once you're able to do that, then you go about the business of fighting for it. Why because if I don't fight for it, then I'm diminishing my own value. And then I'm giving you the license to diminish my own value

because I didn't make you value me. But if I sit up there and I fight on behalf of myself, making sure to illuminate my significance and my value to you and bringing validation to the table to authenticate that value,

now you have to take me seriously. And when you cut in that check and it's significant, particularly compared to those who have inferior numbers revenue ratings wise and what have you, it automatically gone as a level of respect that you're going to have to pay attention to in dealing with me, because you know that I've earned it, that I have a right to it. Then you validated it. So it's now in your best interests to support me because it validates the investment you made in me. Why

would you devalue the very investment you made. All of these things are what I peeled from that one statement from the now President of the United States of America, and he told me that we got in on a hip hop note favorite hip hop album I I don't know, because you know what I'm not good with. I'm not good. I mean when I think about jay z Blueprint, I mean that that that's up there, that's up there. I

think about Run DMC's first album, that's up there. Um heavy Day, That that that that's really weird is for me. That's really weird is for me. A couple of fifty cents and you got a couple of nice ones, two parts. Got enough of nice on? You know? For some reason, I find myself listening to The Unconditional Love by Tupac these days. I don't know why the hell I'm listening to that, that temptation. Um. You listen to stuff to motivate, you inspire you, Like, do you know what the thing

I was telling P did he this one time? UM hate me? Now? I listened to that at least once a day. And my favorite and and my favorite verses, you know, he says you can't hate me nah, and he's like, I like this. I like I like the way this feels, you know, because it's exactly what I'm thinking.

It's like they hating on me. Like my assistance to Matra be around me and others and it's like they're sitting there and people hating on me, and I'm like, yeah, like that because they think that they actually, for some reason, they actually think that I'm gonna fold. And it's like it's like pop Eye with the spinach. You know. It's like all you did was you know you, you got you. I appreciate you getting me alert. I mean, I was a little tired this morning, but you don't hate me. Good.

Oh I needed that. And that's why I said, you're listening to You're listening to you know Nas and Nas is brilliant to gotta give him some love, but I'm just saying with him and and P did he puffy? It was like when they said hate me now and he was like and and P did he stop? He's like, I like this. I like the way this feels. I was like, yeah, that that that's me. It's like that's

what it's all about. Everybody has to find that little something for themselves that inspires them and elevates them to two different heights. When you are grinding, even while you're in the midst of that grind, you feel achievements coming your way and you can get slacked. But when you are surrounded by little nuggets of things that motivate you, it's I don't know how to explain it. Sometimes it keeps me up at night in a good way. Sometimes, you know, I go to sleep and I wake up

on fire and it's like, what's wrong with him? And I'm like, let's go, you know, and it's it's stuff like that that just it just does it for me because I look, I look for little motivational tactics and stuff like that, and hate is one of the things that makes me feel good. I mean Cat Williams, Cat Williams. Cat Williams said it best best. You know, you you you got fifteen people hating, or you find a sixteen you know, let's get it on, you know, because I'm

gonna get love. I'm gonna get love, and I'm gonna do what I do. But it's incredibly, incredibly important to me that I'm always on constant alert recognizing that you're gonna come for me. I'm never ever, ever complacent, ever, because I know better. I know that the second people get an opportunity to they will want it. They don't want to take me down, they want to take me out.

You understand, and that goes for you, you and anybody who's successful, because most people in this world are not, and their definition of success is keeping somebody on their level and denying ones elevation. And you can't let that happen. You gotta be inspired by it. I know. I am Van Stephen hbc U HBCU Week. Please at HBCU Week or week dot org. Go to both places. Find out about this. Twenty five different HBCUs and the House marching bands, all of that stuff. First take would be live in

the House. Delaware State seventy six is Field House. Saturday ten am, Magic Johnson's and Oiles Great vacation was j sixty tell us about it was spectacular Friday. By the way, my sisters in my Friday Friday, HBCU week got the fair Friday where you can bring your grades S A T A C T score you at a scholarship on the spot, or at least enrollment into an HBCU. So make sure I do all of that. But let me get back to Magic Johnson's part. It was spectacular. It's

the greatest vacation. What Sam was you touching man Sandro pay friends sounds expensive? It was it was it was. It was worth it, though, Bro, it was worth it. I mean, magic did it up, man, Magic did it up. It was something special, you know it. What happened in Sandro Pay stays in sand. So I'm not gonna say who all sort of picture stuff like that you saw who was there, But y'all, y'all, I don't need to be spreading that business. But I would tell you my man,

Magic comforty of greatness. Man, he is magic. Bro. That that that that that that that was the three it was four days. I could only stay three, but the three days of parties I was subjected to. He don't ever have to worry about wondering whether or not I'm coming back again. You don't ever have to worry about that and that that that that that that that is going to be. He said, Listen, they're gonna have to come up with some pretty important stuff to keep me

from going to a Magic Johnson vacation. It was. It was about it was about to fifty three hundred of us that was dead black Hollywood and affect the whole nine. It was. It's the greatest vacation I ever had. Bring me next year, all right, No rap, no no, I ain't bring it, I ain't bring nobody there. I'm good, especial, especial, Thank you so much, my man right On podcast