Rap Radar Rewind: Sickamore

Feeling great? How are you? We won't stop delivering these episodes. Man. We got legendary executives this week. We got young artists kicking it and making noise like the Homie Drome last episode. And now we got man, this young executive man out here. Man, when you think of Travis Scott, you nik a yg their last albums, you gotta blame this man. What do you like to have loved it? Man? Sycamore is in the building, sickamore whatever, batmore. We need that drop. You

know I don't even have it anymore? What Yeah, I gotta go pull that up. You drop the master at work? Right? That was the drop? Was the drop? You had the instrumental it was sickamore and it had You're in the privilege. You're in a privileged position to learn a thing two and keep your mouth shutting your eyes open from Denzel. Yeah, the good old days. So the people that don't know Sycamore was a mixtape king in the New York circuit. You know, how did you avoid beef with like crazy

aster Case Slaves and the the mixtape dudes. And I didn't really avoid it, you know. I was just part of the game. You know. But at the time when I first started, I was sixteen, seventeen years old. Correct, I'm not out of Brooklyn, So I really forget how young you were. Like that's crazy. Yeah, it's like you know when um, when I when I when I worked for your Double Excel, I was I was nineteen, you know, and like at that point I didn't know anything, Like

I didn't have anybody in music. I'm trinidaddy and you know, to my family, corrupt listening to the gospel and calypso on R and B. Yeah, so everything was new to me. Every single day was new. So nobody was gonna tell me I can't do something. I was just showing up. I didn't care because I just wanted to get on. You're also known for you know, your Overnight series and I'll make you famous. But the instrumentals, why did you

focus on those so much? The instrumentals was the only thing that was important to the to the people, like my customer days for instrumentals with people who wanted to get on. So you gotta think two thousand three, two thousand and four, two thousand five, two thousand two, instrumentals and beats were hot, like was hot. So when people bought my instrumentals, they were buying that to complete their albums pretty much, you know what I mean. They're buying

that to complete their record. They need to write their wraps and need to write and practice. And my instrumentals I had a niche with people who bought them because I didn't do loops. I went to I found a producer. I want to found a vinyl and make sure I had the real instrumental with the drops in there, with the transition, so you know, people knew the difference quality wise.

So I really treated that series because if somebody had five ten dollars at the time and their artists and they had to buy a sandwich or buy my CD. They're gonna buy my CD because they feel like that's an investment in their future versus all the other mix sayes were kind of like, um, you know, just for fun. Yeah, and you so you would personally, like what were some producers you would reach out personally. They would just give you their beats, heat making is you know what I mean.

They gave me some joints, self service, gave me some joints, you know what I mean, a lot of people like Buck while a lot of those guys. You know, really, what I do now during the n R is no different than what I did then bets, because I secured beats and I I tried to make people famous. You know. I remember you were saying one of the early stories

with somebody when you stopped being embraced. I think Fabry stopped to you, right, and you brought them all these instrumentals and then he was like, you got some real beats too, Like that was the first one. You know, growing up in Brooklyn, fabulous is everything, especially in my age group, you know what I mean. So like when I was in high school, fab is now coming up. He was going to do the clue tapes, the freestyles

now and not two thousand. He had like the big Arians, the jaw Ins everything, So like fab was like fab and Shine, but like two gods in Brooklyn because jay Z was obviously and so it was like bigg Biggie just passing Jza, like Shine and Fabril like the two coolest people, a little being in the whole world. As far as like money goes, Like when you hustle these mixtapes,

what was that like at the time? Um, I break it down, Like so when I first started, I started like twenty CDs five cities, so on downtown Brooklyn Canal Street, and they were like two fifty a pop. Now maybe like two dollars a pop. So then after a while I started doing four cities and cities and the DJ named actually Pack cut me a deal with he had tapes to right Get Money Nation. You know, that's that's Todd Boogie, you know, And I was I was like the kid that they yeah, and I was like, oh,

I look at sick of Wall. It's like, you know, it's help him out. Yeah, So I was That's why I really got on the Harlem A hundred fifteenth to fifth. I used to go up there all the time get my CDs. So I'd like to say, like at the peak of it, the way the money worked, i'd probably do like two to five thousand CDs per CD and he would sell them wholesale for about average around two fifty two seventy five. And he woul dropped like one or two a month, trying to calculate, you know what

I mean. So like it was had a lot of ten stacks a month something like that. You know, I didn't keep good books back then, you know what I mean. But it was like I was doing okay. But but it's all dangerous, right because this is like not from promotional use only it's a bootleg market. Like until what's the energy, Like it didn't get dangerous on the Well, here's the dangerous doing mix tapes, like until it didn't get dangerous with the with the cops, until drama and

cannon went down. But by that time I was really out. I was really got the job, you know, Before that it got dangerous with like people wouldn't want you to play certain records. If you play a record that was just in somebody, you might get more sales, but then you might get your leg broken and that was and you know, there's no protection back then, there was no Instagram, like in the streets that you have to sell your mixtapes on downtown Brooklyn, Canal Street, fourteen stre Fourdham Road,

Queen's Plaza A hundred sixty five. You know what I mean, Like these are not like normal things you gotta do. So like you're in the hustle with the with the hood and with these artists go around the series too. Yeah, so you're part of the you're part of the ethos. You're part of the stream, you know what I mean. Get touched. Yeah, there's no hiding, so you have to really you have to really keep it careful. What did you put this on and put yourself in that position?

But did you try to avoid them yourself? I mean sometimes you take your risks, which one like you put on there like it was kind of controversial at the time. Um Man, there's one of them, I tell you, but I probably just open up old wounds, you know. It's like the most controversial one. I remember I had like in the club really early. That was really good. I remember I went into Snow and got that one and

I got to get from connecting. I mean actually fact played down on our mixtape like first, and that was good because we end up selling like right off the first a lot of drops on it and still a lot of drops in it. I think like Case and somebody had a second and something that was like a big one. But what was it? This thing is it

was two personal. Yeah. Man, it's like some of this stuff I used to play back then, like there's still like these people are still around and it's kind of like everything is cool now, but at the time it was just like so bad that you played it. Like I mean, I'll tell you, I'll tell you around this story. I'll tell you everything about the story and if you get piece together, that's what the internet looks for, right.

So like one time, like you know, when I was first coming up, I got these records and it was like a crew and they were starting like beef with each other internally, people don't really know. So one guy started beef on him and I started playing records on him and then they were like I got like a one and like you know what I mean, don't don't play those records. And I got like a little shaken up to like you know what I mean, so somebody

else and the crew started beefing. I got hold of that when I was the only person to play either those records. The second time, I got a one and like, yo, man, you're gonna get your leg broken out here, like guarantee, like you're gonna get hurt, You're gonna get like funked up. Like the exact quote was gonna get your leg broken, you know what I mean. And I was like, man, it's probably gonna happen. And those guys who did it,

you know, they gotta get track record. So like I really believed it, you know, And but you know, luckily, you know, I'm still walking. So was that the transition to like I don't want to do this show, want to get to the label side, or was that something you always strive to do. No, the transition, it kind of happened naturally. Like you know, I had an old manager named Animal Still. He was like, yo, you'd be a great animal Still his name was popping up right.

He's like, he's like you should be an A and R. Like You're like you'd be a great A and eighteen years old. I'm okay, cool, so we'll say no I do. He's like, well, he finds beat two minds artist, So okay, cool, something be ain't on. So I saw it getting like a series of a little independent and our job starting at Beach Street Records downtown Brooklyn. Clark Kent was the inn, and then they made Meet the A and R. And Clark used to give me a lot of advice about

A and R and I used to that heavy. They gave me a little office in Beach Street. I was dating one of the girls there. I was like eighteen. I had an office again. I got six hundred dollars like every two weeks, I think it was. I was like, okay, cool, I'm on. You know what was the best advice Clark gave you? Um, you just just stay in it, you know what I mean? Just stay in it, like, don't get too far removed because you got a gig. Like just stay all the way in it, because the further

removed you get, that's when you lose it. And then after Clark, after b Street, you know, just plays giving an opportunity to A and Off for his record label. Um, and he's like finding an artist and I'll start and I found him. My artists found him Sigon and then I used to just come up the baseline every single day, and as Saigon I was the first project I worked on.

I was the first time I was in the studio hard like just learning, Like I was just walking in and just see him in the studio with great people, and I'll just be like the baseline, right in the baseline, baseline, and it would be like, you know, Rocket Feller. All this is like post black album, so it's like kind

of like that error. So it's not prime time Rocket Feller, but it had like the future like it had like a Ja Electronica, just sitting on the couch playing video games, chilling like you know what I mean, Like there at the time. Yeah, he's been around for a while, you know what I mean. Like it was just trying to get on likes no no him and just had a relationship early. Jay was never like a thirsty artist. He was never somebody like you always please listen to me.

He always had a confidence to him from from beaving back then and you pushed just to be an executive, right. He was like in the zea like Kanye, he's beating you. Jay's retiring because I met him to so like you know what, I mean, I was just because this like I'm trying to paint the picture for the time, like jay z Jes retired and Kanye really saw the bubble and college dropouts just about the drop three to oh four. And I've been telling Jus Blaze, I was always the time.

It was always just Blaze and Kanye. Jud Blaze had the name he had to drop. Kanye didn't have a drop. Yeah, so from that time, kind that's when Kanye finally started to pass just so that's like kind of how I got in his head, like, yo, can you can you like you know this guy is gonna blow by you, you know what I mean. And he kind of just told me that kind of brushed me off. I think he's like, if you find an artist, I'll start a record label. I had a name everything. So I don't

know if he really really serious or not. But you get an opportunity like that at eighteen ninety years old, you're gonna take it. And I called Sagon and I was like I was already bubbling a little bit. He was bubbling, you know. He was working with Gotti from the Source. Yeah, Gotti from the Sources showed me a lot of love, like back that back in those days, anybody used to come. He like, show me love. I just loved going there, like, UM got it from this. A lot of journals show me a lot of love.

So that was your connection. That's music journalists because my dad's journalist. So I got I got a lot of a lot of respect for journalism. I got a lot of respects for editorial, got a lot of respect for magazines, you know what I mean. He grew up doing B two B business, technology, journalism and his whole life and he was one of the only black writers in tech

from the eighties and nineties. He grew up writing about Steve Jobs, Bill Gates everything, you know, and he'd be in a lot of rooms in San Francisco, Palo Alto where he was the only black journalist, you know, and he always moved around. So you know, journalists don't make the most money, but you know he had to. You know, when when you when you're a black man, incorporate and any kind of corporate you gotta be exceptional to stay around. You can't be like average, you know what I mean.

You gotta be like the best, so you're you're out of there. So like I always had a lot of respect for journalism. So then you bring side On to just what was that? Did they click right away? Like they click right away? You know. I played him some records. I called side On, like, Yo, can you get up here? He's like, hell yeah, get up. He was moving from his house out of Jersey to New York to Brooklyn and he just left that left the move and came

to the studio. They started recording just Game a few bats. He came back and wrote to it. They worked together like that for eight months. Out of chemistry going and boom. They signed Atlantic Records through um G and hip Hop's Hip Hops and just played stayed on as executive producer and like boom and I was like kind of like my first claim the fan was a true life under

your watch too. So what happened after that, like allow was also my first real dose in the music business because then since justice deal was like you get paid when you're like an A and R, right, you know, when we get distribution Since he had an executive producer deal, technically it's not like a label deal, so there's no overhead to pay. But you know a nineteen is all you're just like damn, I got money, man, I don't

got no money, like you know what I mean. So I like this, I left and the um you know, True True was around at the time. I met him through side and he was like, yo, you know, let's like let's let's do something. Let's rock and he had this song um Calling New New York and the song I just thought it was the greatest song. So like I wrote, like this playing out it's like eleven page playing out to him and then he's like ole page

and he's like, yeah, everything like that man. Because you know, I had a lawyer, Michael Guido, and he taught his big a lawyer right, and he's just gonna see him to get a lot of advice. And I think in retrospect, people just sold me as a young kid. So I think people should just give me a lot of advice that they thought I was like that underestimates you know, no thought they thought they thought it was like, like, oh, this eight nine year old. He's like, I didn't be like, hey,

you know, I'm a kid. I used to be like what's up, you know, So they used to get a lot of these big guys give me advice, and we don't give me a great advice. He said, you know, it's going to be the difference between you and a lot of hip hop guys. You can put stuff on paper a lot of lights. You know, he's like a lot of executives, they just have a great mouthpiece post like He's like, they can't spell, they can't put thoughts together. And you can have a great idea, but if you

can't put it on paper. You know, the people who really cut the checks, people really get the budgets, they won't be able to see it. My talent. When he told me that, I realized my talent would be able to put things on paper. When you put things on paper and you present it the right way, then you get on. And that's how I got everything, every sponsorship, everything, I'll be able to put it on paper and not just talking. How how the true life connect to that?

You think he was excited. He had a plan, like you know, And one thing that it's always been with artists that I work with, is like they just need to plan. People always underestimate artists. They underestimate with artists did to get there. They underestimated all like the shows and the maneuvering and how smart they have to be in their career and then they are to get to the point that you and heard of them to make

it off. They block, you know, so if they see a plan that might work, you know what I mean, they'll be with you. You You know, it blows you. Treat them like a partner and treat them like the smart people that they are. You know, like the artists I work with some of my whole career has been some of the most creative, smartest people that I felt like if they were just straight executives then music or anything,

they could be fortunate cls. So what do you think you've always added to those relationships to get the best out of them? What? What what is the gift that you have that adds to what they're already doing? I belief and I listen, you know, like I think that a lot of times people always want to go there to people, to artists and be like this is what you gotta do. You gotta do like this, you gotta do like that. But if you just kind of listen to what the artist is saying, they're going to give

you the best advice. So it works like this, like like like it means you'd be that we start a project literally working. You're gonna tell me something like, you know what, I want to go and really revitalize the boot back part of the era in New York, but I want to do it with a newer sound. Right. That's our mission statement, right, and from that point now, me, now, I'm gonna hold you to that mission statement, and me and you're gonna work together to get to that goal.

How are we gonna get there? We're gonna figure out together. We might argue, you might come out, we might go to the wrong roads, but that mission statement never really changes. And after we come up with that, they need somebody sticking with them, like okay, cool every single day. So it's not no, it's not no crazy musical thing, like you know, I know music pretty well, but it's really about the togetherness with the artists that I stay and

I don't break until we deliver. So whether we drop a mix tape, a single album, we're gonna be in it until that vision is completed. Yeah, I mean, I think the best example is Why G's first album you Know, which we all felt was the best album of that year, and like how how how cinematic that record is and how cohesive that record is like talk about that in

the mission of putting that project together. So why G already had like a really strong base, you know, enjoy Man that introduced us when Scott first got that job at that share, you know, and he introduced me him and be More, which is his manager, and we just kind of like trying to get to know each other for the first few months, you know, and we really started hitting the groove with his song Bomped in Right

and then he played in Bompton. I told him that's my favorite song from you, and He's like, that's my favorite song too, and I was like boom. After that was like stepbrothers. Did we just become better? And then you know, we just started talking to my albums and kicking the ideas and stuff like that, and just like we started trying to record in l A. But when you record in l A, you know, this is like

a lot of light stuff. You really from l A. It's like a lot of especially in the gang Gang Affiliation, there's a lot of things Like in New York is kind of like a solo thing. People kind of rock around, they move on their own. In Los Angeles, like you grew up in the neighborhood people always this, these guys are being getting affiliated, But you really don't have a choice when you're in l a like you know what I mean. So like you have to deal with bullshit.

You gotta deal with head people, you gotta deal with jail people, you gotta deal with homies, you gotta deal with politics, you gotta deal with stuff with you a w rapp up artists, a businessman, You're just gonna deal with it being environment no matter what. So that the number one thing was to get out that environment so

we could focus. And that was in Atlanta. And from Atlanta, you know, he lived on the second floor and the floor these corporate departments and then from six to six every day six pm sixty and we'll be in the studio from Monday to Thursday, and during the day we play all our records over, discussed it, listening to albums, things like it would be like a real business, a corporation. And Friday through Sunday we had the time off because you have to live your life to you know, get inspiration.

So that was kind of like the protocol. And we did that for two months, and you know, I didn't really move around the line that really nice. So I was kind of brought up there. So I just watched movies all day. I was focused on this all day. He's focused on us all day. And then after two months, you know, we finished pretty much My Crazy Life. Um.

The structure. We talked about story structure, and Jez was a huge part of it because Jez was like, you know, because I had never put out an album before at that point, a major, a major label album. So I was working on it, like, yo, if I never put out another major label album, I might as well make

it count. This has to represent you as much as anybody, right, Yeah, Like I'm gonna make it dope, like you know what I mean, because that's I still come from a culture of like you know, the source five mics, Like you know what I mean. Like my my main, my main, my main thing is like I just never I want to be whack. Like anything I want to do, I never want to be like to prove people wrong. I like to prove people. I like when I go outside, like I was in um what was I was gonna?

I was in a hitcut Everson today and like Travis Scott, apple Pie came on and Kith and then they play like some song I'm still still crazy. That's how I get off, you know what I mean. I'm like, I know people also the cultural culture culture, but if that's that's the truth, Like I'm part of the the hip hop culture. My name is Sicklemore. I have a nickname. Like my business cards don't have parentheses, you know what I'm saying, Like, that's that's how I'm gonna go till I'm out of here.

Like if I remember this chairman of a company, I'm always going to be Sicklemore. And that's my hip hop name. And I really respect that. I got it from from mixtapes, so so so when that's what I care about. So like when I work on these albums, I really just care about people, like saying it it's dope, saying it's hard when I drop mixtapes, if people can buy it, it would like bring me down because I was like, oh,

it's not dope. So people are not talking about it, if people not playing it, if they're not on snapchat, girls are not talking about it, If like reviews aren't coming in, like then um then I feel bad. But luckily the last four albums I worked on, Rodeo Still Crazy um Rodeo, Still Crazy, My Crazy Life, and Birds in the Trap Singing Night all got really great responses. So Feeling Feeling Good was My Crazy Life the first y G album, Like people compared it to Kendrick's first album,

was that really a blueprint? Was just a kind of a coincidence of how things worked out. I mean, you had to be inspired by Kendrick. You know, that's probably one of the best albums to come out in the last five years period any genre, you know what I mean. And he's right there, So ours is more of an inverse, you know, if Kendrick was like, you know, if Kendrick's album was a guy in the House, why was at

the house? You know what I mean? But you think about if they both threw up in Compton, how different are their lives really gonna be? How different they're seeing the same things, experienced the same thing, Yeah, the same They both on rosecrans, they both have homies, they both they both you know affiliated, It's not gonna be a

big difference there as far as that. It's just the way you tell your story, you know, is that the suns Because then people could say, well that just sounds like it could easily then be dismissed, Oh, that's just the Kendrick album knock off for It's like we're facing that challenge of showing that there's originality to telling the story a different way. I think we told it a different way. I think that our story was a lot different. I think that a lot of those records weren't like

Kendrick records. And I think that Kendrick jumping on the album and doing a song like really Be was like a stamp. Like you know when when Kendrick jumped on that record, we gave him the whole album and we told him, like, whatever song you want to jump on, So he had every record on My Crazy Life, and he picked really Be to jump on. You know what I'm saying. Artists like Kendrick, You know, these generational artists,

they're not gonna go for that. They feel like somebody's like trying to take their joint understood the difference between us, you know, like and I think it's kind of a bias when it comes to the South and the kind of like a New York bias, Like they could be a hundred artists fro Brooklyn. They could be a hundred

artists in Queensbridge. It could be a hundred artist from the Bronx and we don't be like, oh, you're trying to make a story like that, you know what I'm saying, Like nature story is gonna be close to uh to Nazi story, you know what I mean? Like we don't. We don't have a pigeon holding because the two artists came out from Compton. We're like, oh, well, you guys

are so close. I think, like you know what I mean, Like we never compared, like you know, the Wu tang like like like Supreme clin Spree clientile, you never compare like how close, Like Ellmatic is the reason with dub you know what I mean, like iron Man, like we never really did that as much. So I think structure wise it was a lot different. I think sonically it

was totally different. I think Arms are more upbeat, more club and I think I think Kendrick's album is what do you think it's special about y g though as an artist in working with him so closely, because I mean obviously someone like Kendria said, well, Kendrick is so lyrical, he's so x y z, he is easy to pinpoint.

I feel like people still don't really understand the ranger or a talent of what makes Y g as as an artist, as an m C special, Like, can you kind of break down what you think it is about him that makes him unique? And I think the thing that makes Y the most unique is the fact that he's always learning, you know, like he never just accepted who he was what he does? You know, like he was making like um he I mean it was started sounding,

it was out like that, like the jerk movement. He came out then him and must have originated the only down which is turned into as much of YG sound. And then he really improved as a storyteller on My Crazy Life, telling people a lot of people the reason why My Crazy Life is so big, people didn't expect them to really be that in detail is storytelling? One of those people I was, I thought, it doesn't get tuted and booted again. That's what I was at Francis

for getting the album initially. That's how I think it was a unique about it. I think that you guys were building something where you were holding such a high standard. You're trying to make a classic rap album. At the end of the day, people probably question could watch you even make a full album, you know what I'm saying. Like like at the time, you know, the label was just happy if you got the album out, you know what I'm saying, So like for us, it's just kind

of like we had nothing to lose. But when you work under the guys of like of a classic, because there's a few of different ways to go in the studio, you'd be like, Yo, we need to get twelve songs done right, and then after we get the first let's do twenty, picked the best twelve and put it out and it's do it again in six months you drop part two, or you're going there with an idea. You're going there like, okay, cool, this is an idea because My Crazy Life is originally called I'm from bomb Them.

And then when you're from making an actor from I'm from Bompton, that has to feel to it. Certain records you can't do, you can't do like a playhouse reckon I'm from Bompton. So you know, Jeez was the one who came into the studio. I was like, Yo, man, you're gonna sell two copies if you name it out from Bompton. So why did we have to really think about it, and he was like, Okay, cool, we need

a new name. And then why she came up with My Crazy Life, like I'm calling my Crazy Life but crazy with a K, you know, and the boom and automatically creatively that opens up a lot more stuff we could do because now you're talking about our life. Had my nagket hit before that or that was already going on. I'm from Bompton, God damn for my Nigger was from I'm from Bompton. Picking back being Bull was from I'm

from Bompton. Uh, those records around from Bompton. Most of the other records were all my Crazy Life, like I just want to Party BPT, Sorry mama, those are all my Crazy Life records. Like think if you think about my Crazy Life Bompton and BPT is like the story, Like the idea of that song was like what would it feel like? What does it feel like to get jumped in the game? Right? And no one's of its whole lot? And that's when we came in the first

first story, right, you know what I mean? Like that was the story and that's how and you wanted to make Sonically, we were challenging Mustard must of his challenging himself to to beat bomped In. So we were trying to beat bomped In sonically while I tell the story, you got jumping in the game and that's how they came in. So a lot of times we would conceptually come up with a record or like one record was like, um, Me and My Bitch. That was a record that was like,

you know, you're very you know. One of one of the one of why the big lines at the time was because my ex was a boper, you know what I mean, And I was like, well, we got to tell people why you're so misogynistic, right, So he made Me and my Bitch Like He's like, this is a story why I'm like this, and that's how it came out and then we was able to put it there. So the whole thing is almost like writing a script, but just with some music. Called it a Western right

to Western. Yeah, Like to me, I look at it like movies like you know, hip hop, my mentor he um. He always taught me to like our job to like coaches and directors sok Joshua yea kiamba hip hop Joshua you know, like you know, Jay z ain't on and he found Kanye. He's like, our job is like like closest to coaches and directors, you know, coaches as far as your relationship with the talent, and directors as far as managing the whole experience. Like a director has to

manage the studio. The director has to manage the talent, the cinematographers, the editors. Everybody has their own ego and they have their own idea how this should be, and you're in controls. People like I could be a director, but people understand that being a director has more to do in relationships as they have to do behind the camera. And when you're dealing with a coach. You know, we study coaches because coaches have systems, you know what I mean.

So we study like Greg Popovich, you know what I mean, We study like Phil Jackson. You know what I mean.

We study like different coaches in different fields, Tom Coughlin, a Belichick, and take principles that they use and apply to managing talent on this and you know what I mean, managing directed styles, you know what I mean, Like Woody Allen's style, verst is like Clint Eastwood style, and how we could apply that versus Stanley Cubrick style vers Scorsese style, and like, you know, in that way we could incorporate those kind of themes and then use it for a record.

You know what I'm saying. So a lot of our references come more from movies and sports and even does from music. So what's your role currently now with Epic Records? Where I think I'm vice president and and creative director. What does that mean? Um? What does that mean? You know? First I got shot out to l a read you know, Um, I'll tell you the story of how it got to Epic. So after you know, my Crazy Life had the success we had you know, who do you love my Nigga?

Then we had Don't Tell Them with Jeremiah and Little Dirk, Like I really loved the saying what you want and some of the records that he put out. You know. Um, I was down in Miami for the Revote Music conference. What was coming up now? Two years ago? First year? Okay? And um I went down there and I was invited down by Neil Dominique and Dana from a Vote and it's like yeah, when you you want to be in

the panel. And I was like okay, and he was like, well you have like an hour to let us know, and you have to pay for your own way to get down there. Man Neil Dominique Bryson till his man and uh, it was like and he was helping put it together and he's like, you got about a hour to get me know. So I called him back in half an hour and let him know I'm gonna be down there. And then he was. He was like, I can't tell you was on the panel, but you're gonna be happy. So I was like, okay, cool. So I'm

down there, like you know what I mean. And I was like, okay cool, Like I'm I'm a little stressed out, like work was stressing me out a little bit. And then I get down there and I see like the panel and it's like DJ Khalid, Craig Calm and chairman of Atlantic Records. He was on a different panel. He was there having a different panel, Larry Jackson, Apple h l a Read, chairman of Epic Records, and me, I was likesician, I was nervous as house. No, but you

shine didn't remember. It was playing like audio clips like he was breaking down who do you love and how guys worked so hard just even on that one particular record, right, Yeah. But the process of me to get I was cool up there. It was a process because like the night before, I went to bed like a ten. I woke up like five o'clock in the morning, like I rode a bike to the beach in Miami. I sat on the beach, I looked at the sun rise. I went my mentor, my mentors staying on the block it and I went

to the hip hop. I started talking to him for like two hours. He was give me a bunch of jewels, like I was. I was like trying to prepare because I know everybody else was just like they had like they had, they had credentials. And I got a couple of at the time, I had a couple of hot records. But you know these guys, you know, got grant Mes, they got best new album. That's the album. It's got hit.

So when I got up there, I realized that a lot of other people were talking about the state of the music business on the A and R panel, and

no one was talking about about creating records. And I was up there, Okay, cool, my angle is gonna be actively how I'm working on the records that are on the radio, and I'm gonna tell stories of how people, um, how I made these records, and me and l A really started to bond with the record making process because I think a lot of times people get so obsessed with the music business that they get lost in the music and the creative. And we're not in music because

we're the smartest businessman any of us. We're in music for the culture of it, you know, and and the art like you know what I mean, Like the guy in JP Morgan who run JP Morgan. I might not be able to read a fiscal report like him, but I know he can't listen to him breakdown the album

like me, and you know. And I think a lot of times in music, we underestimate ourselves and we don't play to our strengths, you know what I mean as creatives, as though people are want to look grow up listening to everything like like like we're making music like rap right off is representing hip hop at the highest level in the whole world. And hip hop, somebody told me

one time, and I grew with them. And hip hop is more influential in Shakespeare because Shakespeare is like you know what I mean, you gotta damnit to speak English, to really do it. Hip hop you go to you go to Europe and it's like the eighties graffiti, breakdancing, you know. So like when you do something like a rap Radar podcast, you're listening to hip hop at the highest possible level. You know, you're listening to guys like beat That, Elliot Wilson, you know what I'm talking about. Like, no,

you think about it for real. I'm not trying to gas. I'm trying to give some good stuff I want to put up. I want to put in perspective, it's like we're the top. Blood is no higher level in this. This is this is Lebron James. You know what I'm saying. This is, this is, this is this is the highest level of people doing hip hop. This kid's out there, who's listening to these podcasts, is listening to these albums, are gonna fourteen sixty years old, and they're gonna mold.

They're gonna mold their whole future off of what we do. Like when I was growing up, I was reading your I was reading your editorials from like Double Exile. I'm reading everything about it, all the Wainian stuff, so like, but then you find a way to get yourself in that building. So I don't so I don't take anything. I don't. I take everything. I take the work that I don't take myself serious, but I definitely take the

work serious. So I'm told way to go back to the I think that the way you were describing things like like who do you love for example, on how to make certain records, I'm sure that made l A feel like, Wow, this guy really gets it, or like I'm attracted to what he's saying there and that that leads to this opportunity. That was our bond. You know, my job interview was on that stage. Was that your

first time meeting him? It was the first time I was talking about the record making process, talking about what it is to work with artists and producers in the studio, what it is about competing, you know, like when you're in the studio, you hear a lot of artists, Like I had a meeting with the artist Destities, new kids from my neighborhood and Crown Heights, right, and they were like playing me some records and they're like then they said plays to the comments like, oh, these are the

records we really like, right, And they played me kind of like more hip hop records, and it kind of made me cringe, you know what I mean, because the other records were good, but they were like more commercial. But then it's like these are like they were making that just to make commercial records. They were making that to be like the dopest artist. And I have to tell them, like, you gotta figure out a way to

make a compromise. You gotta made its way to make your your style into the ones that you want to play, you know. And I think a lot of times with people go in the studio, they're going the studio for the wrong reasons. They're go in the studio because they want to make a hit, they want to be famous. But if you make a record that you don't really believe in and it pops, you're trapped in that record.

I give you an example, right, David Banner. David Banner is one of the smartest people will ever come out of hip hop, but because he came in the game with like like a pimp. If pigeonholes him, so when he performs that, he almost has to like backtrack because he's trapped in that record, you know what I mean. Represented a moment but it's not really who he really. Yeah, so you gotta be careful when you're a young artist coming up. How are you gonna how are you gonna

present yourself? Because you don't want to make a record because it's hot, and you get trapped, you don't want to go do a metro record, doing whatever you gotta do, and then that's not really you. You really want to wrap like common sense, you know what I mean. And then and then you can't get out of that trap forever.

So I think that talking about the music making process versus just talking about the business where we bonded l A and l A just like working with him is his magical, Like I read his book, like watching him move, like watching a man who has been on top of his game for thirty years producer as a black executive, as a chairman, you know what I mean, that's not

an easy job to have. Like I mean, look around how many black chamans and presidents all day outside of the epic, you know what I mean, Sylvia Rhnes, who's on top of the game for a long long time.

So me working there is awesome because it's like I get to deal with like two of the uh the Greatest two Hall of Famous two First Battle Hall of Famous on a on a day to day basis African American executives that could give you perspective that other executives would never be able to give you because you know, you gotta ask questions and no one else can answer, and you know, and after that it's just like you know,

after they leave them. But but you still was dealt a tough hand though, because the first assignment is, Okay, Travis Scott, some guy who's obviously fiercely creative, you know what I mean, Like, how do you hone that guy in and how do you put out a full get a full album from him? And that was your first

big challenge. Let me tell you the story. So I knew Travis actually before a new Y g right, when I was like I used to go up to Warner Brothers every day, to Joey Manner's office and Tom Oscars when they were heads of Warner and I was trying to get on just listening to the artists, and uh, this guy who was an intern of Time Jack, he brought me Travis Scott's demo. This is probably like eight March April two thousand and twelve. So you call Travis

to the office. Travis comes to the office, same energy he had now just no no, no braids, just to fade, bouncing off the wall, playing this like yo kan he loves this recor I'm about you know, And you know he had he was just so much talent, so much energy. So you know, I was trying to sign the Warner Brothers at the time, and he ended up doing the deal and epic. But we stay friends over the years, you know what I mean. So over the years, you know,

we're telling me about projects. I'll try to work with him. Like when he was doing al Faro, he used to just like, we need to talk about the project, you know what I mean. And he's like, yea, I'm gonna go with Kanye for like to Paris. He stayed there for like nine months. We's a house Probatius, just come over. We just always kick it. So the crazy thing about how the universe works and night if you just stay open and stay spiritual, like you gotta believe in it.

When I got off that stage with l A, I'm walking back to my hotel, I guess, so I see checking into the hotel this Travis, what you're doing here. He's like, I'm about to perform, and so what you're doing. I just came up a panel. So then we just all went me and him went to the room. And then that's the same time I met Yes Shoes and we all just sat there and started kicking it, and me and Travis was just sitting there talking about how

to make an album. He's like, yo, if I lived in the house like you live in it just had all these producers in the house. I made the crazy album because days before Rodeo is out and it's fired, like it'll be dope, Like let's just go do it, let's record it to Miami. And he's just he's just so inspirational. So after like two straight to three days, is just talking about the album like this is cool, Like you know what I mean, I wanna you know what I mean, I want to really explore this. He's like,

you should just come work with epic. And I was like,

this feels good, you know what I mean? And and and um, my friend Courtney who's a publicity of an epic, it's up with me and with me in l A and I just talked to l A out of me with him it was just like a continuation of being on the stage is inspirational, talking about goals and and you know, usually when you deal with what executives, they're talking about like numbers and also tell me about your story and they're not talking about dream you're talking about m music.

You're not talking about the stuff that you got in here for when he was a kid like I want to be here. I want to be epic, you know, and that's what made me here. So between him and Travis, they recruited me over the epic. So then and remember that plan I was telling about, Uh, it was the same kind of thing. It's like, yo, get let's get a house and put all these producers in the same house.

So the producers came in the house was like Metro booming, Sunny Digital first from f KI when the Girl Southside, t m Ad eight, Alan Ritter all living in the same house bell and that was like, so my first day on the job, the Sember first, I walked right into the house and go to the office. I went to the house studio and then we recorded every day. You know, we did songs like thirt then a few of the records in there, and then from that house. We build the momentum, we want to tour a Rodeo

started recording on the road. You know, the Rodeo tour was crazy. That was that was that was the illest thing I've ever seen, Like like the tour is dope and watching Travis and and Thug creatively like you're gonna go back and forth. Ain't nobody no openings. We're gonna go back and forth. And we did the first show in Santa Ana and when they went out, the crowd just had a reaction I've never seen before in the hip hop show. Like these kids were like mash pinning.

They were going crazy. The flow was shaking. And after it was two shows that one night, and after show when we all looked at each other like did that really happened? And those shows are just crazy. Remember because metro Bom would come out and play, so there was never no lull. The energy was like mete Woman's playing. Everybody's rocking for like half hour forty five minutes and then they just started coming out, so it never stopped.

The energy. The energy just kept building, the building, the building. It was the youth like like and I was telling this to somebody, Everybody talks somebody back in the day, like in the night, everything was better. You know, it wasn't better the shows. The shows just like I used to go to hip hop A people on stage, you scared somebody gonna like which one is nas You couldn't tell who was not Queen's Bridge nickers around him, And shows in the nineties and two thousand sucked compared to

these shows. These kids them out now, they're raging that mash pitting. They don't care about the steps on their sneakers they like, and they're still taking photos. They have the thing worried about nobody trying to like rob them or getting shootouts outside these shows us. These kids don't chain, man, you dropped your chain. Everybody's having fun, so they will come out. Metro's turning up the crowd and these kids

a lot. You would think the headline is on, But how do you will Travis sin And then how does Mike Dean get involved? Because it seems like the whole thing was that Mike Dean gets involved and all of a sudden it's get serious business with these tracks. Well no, no, we're gonna get after the tour. We get in the second house right now, we're like West Hollywood, and you know, like Metell comes to that house, Alarda, we're finishing up

the record. We'd like to call out the Antidote House because that's wheel like we recorded an adult, pretty pretty big record there. Now did you know that that was one of those ones? Because wasn't at first he put it on SoundCloud, right, it wasn't even like originally intended to even necessarily be on the album or No, I did not know. I didn't. I mean every other hit record I've been a part of, I knew Antidote. I didn't know. Um after you thought is going to be

the hit. And I remember the night before we recorded like Nightcrawler, um a few other records, and then like he woke up like late, and then like he recorded one record and then I think he recorded a song called It Possible off of eardio, and then a beat player. He played one a girl beat and he started being on the table and he's like and it's like in the in the it's like downstairs in the basement and all you have see is like a little window. So

he's just beating on the table. He goes, don't you open up that wind? Though? Oh don't you lead out and the dumb and he just does that for like and you know, it's like open mic is no booth, So he just does that for like four minutes and then that kind of became an it though, So it was fun. We just played in the studio. Then he went to like, um he went to Texas and performed it and the crowd went up. She's like just putting

on a SoundCloud. So if you look at antidotal SoundCloud even up to this day, it says not on my album and we're like setting up. And then that ship just started growing every day and it just started getting bigger and bigger. So I like two weeks we were like, you know what Thomas witched a single out? Do you know when a song is a hit? And do hits matter to you or just in general? Hits matter, you know, because it helps your career, helps you stay around. UM

me personally different kind of an ours. You know, my style. It's more like I care about the body of work, and I believe if you stay true to the body of work, a hit will happen. If you're going to studio and try to make a hit, I don't think it's gonna happen. But if you go in the studio and trying to make a album, you'll probably catch a hit off that album quicker because you're one that creative mind state versus just like sitting there and trying to

make it. You can tell when somebody went into the student try to make a hit record, and you can tell when it just felt again it like an adulte feels organic. It sounds like something. When I first heard why G's albums, as soon as I put the CD in and I heard Bombed, I was like, b B, it sounded special, you know what I mean? Almost I would say half the album sounds like it could be radio ready, yeah, because because we didn't. We didn't try

to make it for radio. You just try to make can for to complete that idea, you know, And if you're trying to complete the idea, that's a success. I remember we were south by Southwest when the album leaked with YG and when it leaked like and I saw the reaction of it, that sort of memes started hitting like I like tears in my eyes. I was so happy because I didn't know people are gonna get it

like that. But I just thought that I didn't not have people can react to like, oh, people trying to do some storytelling ship and people when people were going from seeing the lyrics and everything that I was probably that was probably one of the best feelings of my whole life protesting against the no Grammy nomination. They protested against that, so that was I mean, that's great because we I mean remember the time that the we really that was one of our goals in the studio. We're like,

we know we're not gonna win Best Rip Album. We just want to be nominated, and we're just talking about outfit. We wanna wein like that what I don't know, I know why she's gonna be all read though, you know what? And like I was something too tight there crazy that and that you know me must um y g that was all when I saw that was like the biggest goal.

I was gonna be validation. And then when Mustard called me one day screaming, it's like and I was like, and I can't tell so I actually it's just good screaming and bad screaming. He said, bad man, we didn't get nominated, and I was just like, man, like somebody just like shot me in my stomach. I just I

was just like hurt. And it felt like that for a little bit until I started seeing the reaction and then the memes and then trending and then the Grammy snub, and I was like, oh, the streets gave us on the domination. So that made its feel a little better, you know what I mean. That made it that that that that watching those kids protests like we didn't that's none of that stage. They did that on their own, and that that was like a validation. I was like that, Okay,

we know that we did something. I still haven't seen that sending people protests a Grammy snub like that. But back to um So Travels as an adult and then now you gotta fancy the albu because now you gotta hit now you got finished the album, you gotta hit record, gotta get album out. So like we have like you know, having it. It's like having like all these records and then you know, my themes from Houston and then so you go to my theme, like can you finish this record?

And he's like, you know what I mean, like can you executive produce a record? And he has says yes, and my theme, I don't know how to describe him man like. It was just it was probably the illest experience i'n't seen watching him finish the album, because when you go watch him in the house and playing like the guitar, the keys, smoking a blunt on the computer all at the same time, like you know, that's just even taking calls from Kanye stressful. That is like he's

doing all that too, right. Yeah, But he's such a he's such a creative, but he's also super organized, you know, and such a great music maker that I just I just was in awe just being in that couch, like you know what I mean, just watching him work, Like, not much you can do for Mike, but just make sure he has the tools that he needs to do it.

What does he do? He just brings more life to the sounds that are already there, and he mixes the album, He masters the albumy co produces certain records, he goes in. He's like a surgeon. He makes it like a cohesive. He makes it very cohesive, and he experiands the sound and he could really do anything you really want, you know. Um,

I was looking at Travis and Mike. It's like two people in the spaceship driving the spaceship really fast, and they're just like playing with sounds and they're playing with with albums, they're playing with where they could go, you know what I mean. And he I know, I'm having tough time describing it now, but it's like it's magical, like you can't really describe what they're doing in there. There there there their technicians, and they're watching them work together.

It's like masking the sense and they're pushing each other to make it a partnership in a sense, just like Travis views um Dean is the authority. Like they're and they're together, you know, they're they're locking in like Rodeo. They locked themselves and they locked themselves in Um in Mike Dean's house in New York. And you know, we stayed in New York for a month while we finished

the record. You know, came down l a Re came down to the house and listened to the record in my pieces place and the big speakers, which is like an awesome moment. And then the second record was Birds, was a little more um turbulent because it was like we were mixed in the record and then like you know,

Mike also had like Frank Ocean. He massive Frank Oceans album in the middle of Birds right, the blonde album Blond, and I was like sitting on the couch while like the guy comes in with like a briefcase of like Frank Ocean, like the album and the man I'm hearing like a little bit of Blonde and like the other room, I'm kind of like, you know, like poking my head out, like, oh, this is crazy, like you're hearing from Frank. And I was like a Wednesday and then came out Saturday, you know.

And then Mike had to go do the music for the Poplo tour. But he has the illest tour bus of all time, like a tour bust week, record and make music. So he's like, yeah, if you want to finish the album, I'll go on tour. So Travis one of the Poplo tour. So I don't know if he also those clips of Travis like dancing on the floors, people thought he was on tour, but he was really just finishing his album. I gotta get with Mike and get my album done right, So Mike would be up

there killing the Poplo tour. One of the illness toys you're ever gonna see and then when he goes back, he's helping finish birds and him and Trivis and Travis didn't leave that tour bus for about two weeks. And then wherever the tour when he went finishing birds and I was FaceTime with me, he was just feel like he was in a bunk of like no haircut, no nothing, just like thugging it. You know what I'm saying. It

was magical. What is it important? Like to me? He put so much energy to that first album, like, well, you guys happy with the result of that, And why was he so quick to go to try to make another album. Um, not just the idea. The idea kind of controls you, you know what I mean. Rodeo was something that he's been working on for years. That's why

he has an album called Days Before Rodeo. Rodeo was a big thing for him and his fans is a connection that they had that was a story from him going from Houston to l A. So Day Before Rodeo means I'm preparing for my main album, Rodeo. So he's been working his whole life to do Rodeo. So after Rodeo,

it's kind of like it was like a relief. And then the next album, the next concept was Birds in the Trap, which gave us a lot more freedom, you know, I mean, Birds in the Trap was more like that was you know, it's not as locked in as like a narrative story. We could be more cerebral with Birds in the Trap, you know what I mean. And I think that we kind of like nailed it. That's more like abstract, that's more like a kubrick, you know, I

mean flick more than something literal. And I think that, um, because it seemed like that first album is more of like an exhausting process. It seems like this one didn't seem besides the ending, which was a little tough because of logistics, seemed like this seemed like a smoother process now because we learned too, you know, the first time, you know, the first time we did the album, we it was like a learning curve. You know, we have

to learn a lot. Um. We learned a lot about putting together records, sample clearances, certain things you don't have to worry about when you do mixtapes. You know. The second album is just like a team coming back from a from a season that you just went to the playoffs. You want a championship. You guys know each other. You guys know each other's roles, you know where everybody's strength

and weaknesses. All you know, some new additions to the cast, but for the most part, that core team is still there. So now it's gonna be smooth though, Like you know what I mean, I can just throw it past and I know you'll know where to be because we made all the mistakes in season one, so season two, now he gets fancy with him, you know what I mean. Now we now we know where we're going, and then we're still locked into the idea, but we're more comfortable

as teammates, you know. So it's a lot it's a lot smooth at a second time if and it's only smoothest in time if you stay with an idea. A lot of times said people have bad second albums because you get a lot more pressure, Like you know, you're gonna have a lot more money, a lot more fame, a lot more access when you when your first albums. You work in your whole life to make your first album, and you have a lot of ideas helped on too for years. You have a lot of thoughts already sex

second album is a lot more pressures. It's sales pressures, families ball than you money access. You don't have to go to the studio to really you're not as hungry anymore. So you need to really be focused on something else besides like being paid, because after the first album, you're gonna be paid. That's why the Sect Moore slump happens when it's a lot of like imagine, like a lot of time produce artists go like, I don't need my

producer no more, you know what I mean. A lot of the first album, I could do my own thing. I could do my own thing. I made this record, you know what I mean. But you know we didn't do that. We kept the same team in tact, kept the same deals in tack. We're like, listen, man, we're gonna bring it back, bring the band back together. We're gonna do it the same exact way. We're gonna stick with it. Mike's gonna finish it. And if we stayed with the process. And I think that, in my opinion,

I think that Birds beat Rodeo. Even if you think you think Birds Rodeo community to say why, I think it's a little more cohesive. I think. I think I think is uh some better stories on there. I think, um, obviously, you know, I think that goose Bumps is going to be the biggest song in the world. I think that Beaves in the Trap is gonna be a huge song. I love I love like the range, you know what I mean. I love everything about Birds. I think Birds is some more cohesive body of work. I think it's

a strong body of work. I think on the Rodeo is a lot of records on there that I think we did. We had to do because it's the first album. You know, we gotta do a song with Kanye. You gotta this song for all. We didn't have those precious on Birds. We just the that we just stuck with the concept and speaking with the concept of the title.

Obviously Brian mcnights involved. Was he open to the being like almost involved without his permission or yeah, it's like you know, Larry Jackson and Travis they had this idea of like, you know, getting Ryman Knight to play that's

that's that's skip on top of the Mountain. And the first thing Brian m knight said to Travis for me song and you guys like making a joke out of me, you know, and you have to explain to him that, like you know, like Mike Knight is dope, like you're dope, Like you know what I mean, like say McKnight is not. We won't say somebody who's whack? Like how did that become the title? We just said that line and then you guys thought, did you guys have an idea of

a title before? Like how did it become that would be? Really we had a title before, and we still we had an idea before, which we stuck with. But when he said birds in the tried to sing me Night Travish, they said, boom, that's the album. Now he heard it. He just took out the Brian so we don't get suited, and then that was the album. He just says birds and tried to sam night. And it's just that's when you have to have trust, you like, okay, cool, let's

rock with it. And it's some more of an abstract title, is not so literal, but we just thought it was some dope as help. What was the idea mission in terms of this record? You think in terms of when you started creating it. I just think it was a lot we had because we had some core records. Like the first song that we had for this project was like wonderful, you know what I mean. I was like the first record that we had. I mean, he's performing out on the tour at the weekend. That's when the

Weekend heard and while he jumped on it. So I was like our our first record. And then like pick up the phones. One of like the core records, goose Bumps came early, you know what I mean, and we were just piecing together. It wasn't as literal as Rodeo.

This is more like an abstract piece of work. And then after a while, like first we want to drop a kind of like a mix tape, like one of those quick drops, they were like, oh, it's just turning into something low long, you know what I mean, And we changed the focus on making them more cohesive album. It was just like an idea that just kept growing and growing and growing. It was fun because we we weren't limited with even the I didn't limit us because

it was such like a vague idea. It was more like a feeling, and so we just kind of staying it. So when you get into when you get into birds, like you get transformed into another world. In my opinion, from the moment, like you know, like soon when you put on the ends, it just sounds like some other ship happened. And three yeah, long come outside the ngree three thousand and how you get three stacks? How did you get three stacks on? Three stacks? Name was amazing?

You know? Um yeah, I got I'm Nick and it was in't larkasast in up there and you know, Travis to call me one day it's like, y'all, you know, I need to get and thousand on this album, like cool, you know, and then all right, that's nice one. We need to get out on this podcast. Make that happen, you know, you never know, so so so we go, we go, um we go. And I was like I had sent Andre the last album before it came out, just to get his opinion on it, you know what

I mean. And I remember one of the things that you're comming on was like the narration. So we were like, let's see if we get we had tr to the last narration, let's get um Andre to narrate this album, which we thought it was me dopeer staying in the whole world, you know, because he's such a great, great with words, you know. So we had one meeting with him in the studio like conceptually like what the narration

would be like, you know what I mean. And in the middle of the meet and like he stopped playing and he walked in the room and just started playing the weird and uh East West Studios in l A. And it has Frank Snatrazol. Uh that's Frank Snatrazol keyboard and he started playing on the keyboard fifty minutes. I don't even know he played keys and he just started playing keys like we recorded, but we gave it to him like you know, it happen and it was just magical.

And he just came back and he's like, Okay, I want to go live with this and I'll send you guys back the idea. So you know, he sent this back like some conceptual stuff. We sent them back some feedback, so like, um, maybe like the Sunday, he's like, oh, he's in the studio, he's ready to send it. And he had some music that he was gonna do over. He said, I'm gonna keep the music. I'm just gonna

send you guys Acapellas. So we're like cool. And then um, so I get the email, send him Travis email and uh, Travis called me like yo, it says verse on here did he do it? Verse? And I was like, nah, he do it verse you he's just narrying, like I don't think he's like, I don't think the engineer would mess up like that, right, He's like nah, man, I'm like no, I don't know. Then he called me back like, yo,

he did a verse. It was crazy, like you know what I mean like that was it was just like we was shocked, like we thought he was gonna just do a narration, but it had an open in mental there and he just I talked to him about it later. He just said, hey, man, the beat was just talking to me and he says, you know, and I was just like thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And that's that's how that came about. Right. Welcome to play a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities

talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play dot in Hey Yesterday, raid Off and Me and my partner beat Our milling Man with the group's only opinion that matters Man here Rap raid Off has the roles changed as an A N R from yesterday to today. We'll tell me what yesterday was gonna say. If you're changing that, well, a lot of times people will say that, you know, artists development is dead, and you know, artists

kind of do what they want. They have no I guess there's no parent in the room, and it's like everyone's going by the D I Y model. And that's where the A and R of yesterday used to, you know, fill the void. Now these days people say, ain't ours are dead. I think it's of a of a of

a generational thing. Like back in the day, you know, nineties and early two thousands and the nineties, we used to be like you just do what I say, and you were called like I said, like the and R is gonna like the label had the control for the most part, right, So that was like the nineties and R you know, so you got people who were just

kind of doing what they curated for the label. The two thousands, the relationship changed because I was like at the time of the independence, that was the time of like the rough riders and the rocket Fellers and the Grand Hustles and the DTPs, so that you needed a R who have relationships with those CEOs and those and those presidents of those companies and those entrepreneurs, and they knew how to get the best records out of them.

Now you have something new. It's a new skill set because now you're dealing with millennials and you know, if you have cousins and people that are who are young, who are under the age of five years old, you can't tell these people what to do. You have to explain everything, like you need to give them options to them understand, Yeah, they're not going for the whole do this because I said so, it's does that. That doesn't work for millennials. They don't work for the kids. You

have to treat them like partners. You gotta give them options. You gotta give them like this is what we're doing, Like this is why we're doing it. What do you think you have to make a partners? So I think the people who try to go with that old school approach like, dude to this because I said, so, that's over.

If you don't treat these artists like as smart as they are and treat the millennials like partners and you give them options and you give more of a dialogue, you're gonna lose them because you're not going some kids twenty two years old, who nineteenyears old, seventeen years old? This tell them this is how ship should be because that's when you started getting soundclouds already lit. You know, doesn't matter. I feel like there still needs some sort

of curation in the game, right. I think it needs some kind of listening, you know what I mean? Because I think that there's no rules in music. You know, there's there's this hip hop, there's a culture of it. You know, there's the five parts of hip hop, but it's still no rules. You don't have to do things

a certain way. Like when Rick Rubin made the album Structure, he made it off a rock structure, you know what I'm saying, And then a lot of people started making records over the years of a certain kind of structure. Then Almatics made it into like a super album. That's the first time album and correct me if I'm wrong. Really had a bunch of top producers from different places making kind of different records and that's a super album. And that became a new models to another level that

that's a super album. So they're making this. No, you don't have to do it that way. It's just people don't even know why they're making albums that day. If you don't that way, because he didn't do the research. So for the next ten years, fifteen years, people are making albums in that vein. But then like Kanye comes and people started making albums in the eight away to Heartbreak Ving, you know, so like it's a new structure.

And if you don't understand why, and like if you don't understand if you're if you're seven, if you have a seventeen year old rapper in the studio right now, what year is that he's born, Like, don't get beat started not even nine or one of those years, all right, So even nine, right, that means you probably started really listening to albums two thousand seven, right would we're really registering.

So if you're using references about hard Knock Life volume too, right, he's gonna look at you like, I wasn't even born yet. But it's a mus it supposed to be timeless, though they could still be timeless. There's still Thomas records will come out, but and it's still research that they have to do because that's when you start again. But you still have to respect and understand it from their point of view at the same point as to use from

their point of view. Like when we grew up, we were like, was the amusing timeless because Puffy was sampling it's from the eighties, but that timeless. But those are records that we were kind of familiar with. Maybe maybe maybe like when Puff was doing it, maybe if you had a household when people grew up listening to the records, I give you an example when he can. Nobody held me down. I didn't really didn't know that came from, you know, from where it came from, Like, it was

kind of new to me. And then eventually someone told me, oh that's you know this Graham as a flash and the furious fine, like, but you know at the time, you know, you're you read, you read. I think it either source of double X out. They had Puffy as the number one producer of like the millennium and the worst producer of the millennium at the same time, because they didn't know if what he did was super foward thinking or he was destroying hip hop you know what

I'm he was criticized for that. It wasn't it wasn't sacrilegious. How do you take the message and take that beat and modernize it? Like that's a hip hop classic? How dare you take that beat and do it that way? But now it's accepted, now it's it's there. It's almost like that was a much Moore holding a puff like you know, like this is art and what are you gonna do about it? So you like you see it

a lot now. Um, the most fascinating thing to me and hip hop now is the uh is the Ebro interviews Because you have a guy who's very rigid in the way things have to be and the way things should be, and you have these kids who come on his podcast like and the yachtis kind of like why do I have to rhyme over a primo beat to

you know what I mean? Like this? And it's always that that juxtaposition that o versus new and if you and if you watch, if you watch those interviews, you start seeing what the disconnects are with a lot of the taste not the taste makers, but a lot of

the gate keepers and a new generation. And I don't know if there's enough of off enough is like a tutorial is not enough of like a of of a culture like people not have enough dialogue with them, and they not have enough of the history lesson this way, and no one's trying to really bridge the gap. So it's a it's a bad it's a bad combination. This isn't the foundation just about rap? Like can you wrap lyrics?

Like that's at the cornerstone? Like you said to y G, you shouldn't say this, So you have to give an explanation. You know, you have to have to have a foundation about rap because I think people say, people say, mumble rapper. Is this generation? Like you know, your person obviously loves lyrics, Like how important is that? Liked it's important? Well, you gotta understand like these kids and like when we grew up, we grew up as hip hop being our end all

be all. You know, when you're from eleven twenty one, you make your taste. So just think about where you were from eleven and twenty one, what you're focused on. These kids are coming up. This is a playlist generation, you know what I mean. They're growing up with rock music and pop music the same way to hip hop. Hip hop is almost another genre to them. If there's just like it's not the only thing, Like when I

was growing up. I'm listening like Bobby Simmons when I'm going home, play the video Rap City, the source Double Xcel mixtapes. I'm hip hop centric and I'm marketed that way. I'm I'm bt. I'm grow up in the hood in Brooklyn, so all I knew is hip hop, right. It wasn't until like I started moving out in the world and really exploring and go and listen to Level Underground and Leo Rose put me on the Fiona Apple and really just trying to learn. And I have to have to

increase my palette. These kids, their palette is there already. So when a little Yadi doesn't grow up only listen to hip hop and listen to a bunch of other things and have a different inspiration because of the Internet, because you have all kind of things, then you have to teach them what that why that's just important because that's not their only influence when they're growing up. Now, there's a lot of different influences growing up. It's not

only hip hop. It's not only that. It's not they have a bunch of things that they're pulling from as kids growing up in the two thousands. You know what, I mean, it's a it's a playlist generation. That's why festivals are so much more popping now because it's a wider range of people willing to see a wider range of acts. You know what I'm saying, How do you look towards like now you have obviously you know now for Y G. Travis Scott, like obviously looking for the

next talent? Like what are you looking for? You looking for those type of artists. You look for something that's different than what's going on as the norm. Maybe not have that trappy sound like what's your approach now to look at what's gonna be my next sign? And who's the next person young artists I may work with? Um? Well, I go back to the directors, right, and like there are two types of directors, they said. Steven solderbrook says.

It's people who make the material adapt to their style like a woody island, like you know what, they allan flick when you see it, you know what I mean, It's kind of like the jokes and erotic jew humor, you know what I mean, It's like basic and stuff. And then there's people who adapt their style to the material, right, And I feel like that's my style. So I'm never gonna try to force somebody to do a certain kind of music. I'm never gonna be in there and be like,

you have to make this. I'm gonna just listen to what you're telling me, and then I'm gonna try to make the best version of that for you. You see what I'm saying. I'm gonna trying to make the best version. So if somebody wants to come in and make the Ultimate Mobile album and I think they're dope, I'm gonna help them. I like a lot of mombile rap. But so when does discretion use? Like everything can't come out the pipeline be good. Some ship is whack, Like who says, yo,

this is garbage? You know, well the job at ups. I don't think genres a whack. I think that music. I think that. I think that genres just because somebody makes Momo wrap don't make them whack Like I like Little Lousy a lot. You know, I think I think he's dope as out. You know, I'm not necessarily John just talking about an artist like, well, artists could be whacked. Artists could be whack if they're not original, if they're biers, if they're not trying to do something, not trying to

move the culture forward. But if if they just make a certain style, you can't be whacked because like like Krunk was whack. That was a whack errol. I don't know when you hear young blugs, I think they play you play some you play krunk music now it sounds so dated and whack, Like what if your buck sounds like? All right? Like if you have when was the last time I someone even played that, I don't even know

what that sounds like right now? All the time you don't travel, of course I travel, Duck that was playing, spend some time in Atlanta, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, and not just New York. But at the time, at the time, it sounded good. I mean, I haven't heard that record in a long time, and fell sounds good. I'll take your word from Damn still sounds good, like young A lot of these records still sound never scared, still sounds good.

A lot of records of trash. If you play a lot of records from the mid two thousands, records from don't sound good no more. What do you think in New York now, because obviously you was at the forefront with the Saigons and the True Lives, and you was building this narrative New New York. And it seems like now with like you know, younger man a boogie is like some new energy and some excitement in the city

to the CALLI dude, I'm my two thousand seventeen. If I had to pick, like you know what I mean, if I had to pick what I wanted to do, I would love to work with a New York artist, but I would like to just be like in New York period, like I'm moving back to New York, like you got the best energy, Like just being here for a fashion week in these last couple of a couple of months beat us like why sick here in New York. No,

I've been. I've been back out here because now that the albums are done, you know, y G and Travistill both like onto there get that, but they're both gone. They're both already artists to two kids. With these artists, the two albums are out from each of them. Yeah, they're toring. You know. Y's on the Donald Trump tour. Travis is in Australia going crazy. So like my thing is I'm out here just trying to be inspired. I'm a New York kid all the way, but I don't

just limit myself like I don't. I've been working on breaking my identifications. Right. Just because I grew up in Brooklyn, don't mean I have to wear tims and do that every single day. Like that's just something. Like just because I grew up Caribbean, don't mean I have to eat certain kind of food. That's just the way people program myselves. So it's almost like I've been trying to do like almost like a deep program, and I challenge all my all the reasons I do certain things, why I walk

in a certain way. I don't take anything for granted because you only live more life, you know what I I mean. But if I love New York, like I would tell people if I had like a choice of place to live and work, money and family wasn't a factor. I live in New Yorker Miami. I love I love it, you know what I mean. But I also go where it takes me. I still have a certain sense of spirituality with it. I'm never just gonna be like because then you kind of block off your blessings when you

do it that way. When You're just like, I have to do this, I have to do that. I have to do this. I changed the word have to or must or should I could, I could do this, I could do that, but I don't have to do that, you know what I'm saying. So like I'm out here. So I love I love does don't that's his name don a Boogie. I met with younger man Man in the office. She's one of the smartest, sharpest, dopest new artists New Yorkers haven't had, you know, Davis like to

sign a depth um today. I think that I still do the big board. I heard you create a board and you just write all the artists names and you rank them and you like you get real nerdy stockhol Okay, so let me break it down right. I call him my draft Everything I do is really compared to I thought it was in your back here. I was getting excited. That's just gonna pull it out, Like it's like I got something called a draft board. Right, So what I do is like anything that pops up in the radar,

I would just put the artist there. If you like on piges and planes, somebody tells me about them in a car. Different cities grime artists like you just stowed us for getting in the wall, and then I do like mel kayper Jr. Does you start ranking them based on light beause I try to do as many objective things as possible, right, like not just numbers, but just things like talent, who manages them. They might go higher up the ranks because they have a better team to

have a better thing with city they're from. You probably have a better chance to get on if you're from a place that nobody came from before versus some places oversaturated. What what genre they're in, you know what I mean, how long they've been on the scene, how long, how fresh their names are. So I ranked them at a certain things and I just kind of keep it on the board, you know what I mean. And from there that kind of my thing is always to stay like

young and fresh, you know what I mean. So I always just try to stay in that board, and that board is like my favorite thing to do because like I like seeing people come off the board. I've seen you guys some I'll text you guys, some old boys that have from two thousand nine two, How do you get off the board? You have a hit record, you're off the board what you make your first hit or when you put out it, when you want to put

out a major album going. So it's like the old freshman rules that was, but not when you're signed, because a lot of big artists happened when they get dropped from another label. So just because you get signed, I don't take you off the board. So a lot of people on my board are still on record labels, but they're like underappreciated, Like Travis and YG were underappreciated on it. Not not Travis Travis. People always need Travis his talent, right,

I feel like y G was a little underappreciated. Yeah, they gave you Dirk Rees him, they gave you the ones that didn't know what to do with it all incredible in my opinion. So you were how did you

feel when you know Birds were number one? I mean I was the happiest moments in my life, you know, because you know, I've been doing this straight since my first mixtape came out September October two thousand and one, So like you know, I've been putting on mix saves and working the artists, and like, you know, why we're talking about Travis and yg. You know, I've had a a with a lot of artists that weren't that successful. Lots of lots of artists, right the rich and the

rich rich. I think Ricky Hill, I think he gave it a lot because I worked with Rich with seven years. And one thing that I think that we accomplished with this project that s Y L d D. That was the first project that I put out that was like a real album that I just thought it was incredible. We had features that we had Terence Martin on there. It was mixed by mixed by Ali at the Weekend

or early Weekend feature. And I still think he was just ahead of his time, like you know, like when Weekend was being quoted when being like courted and Joey askedently, who's so many favorite artists when they already said was Rich Hill? So this, and I think that he was really original, and I think he just got a bad shot because people that always taught me he'll figure his son. But I thought he was super original. I still think

he's super original. And it's difference between me and like you could be an icon and I'd be original, right, and you could be an original not be an icon, like Little B. Right, do you like? Do you like Little B? But Little Be created most of that style, that whole swag rap like that, A lot of these has come from, Like so do you like Soldier Boy? I like a couple of records. These guys are still originals because when they came out, nobody sounded like them.

And to be an original, to be an absolute original, is a hard thing to be, you know what I mean? And Richards and a lot of them don't succeed. And that's not when it comes after that refines that blows up. Yeah, Like who are they saying the other day that that Steph game is like the Muslim guy Chris Jackson, Like Chris Jackson, like his games like Chris Jackson. Everybody's going crazy on Philip Jackson. Steph Curry. He was saying, he's

like he's a version of Chris Jackson. Yeah, because like it's just because you're an original, don't mean it's gonna go all away. Sometimes you don't get appreciated to later. A lot of artists, like art artists, you know, they blow up after they die because people don't understand the influence. So later and they'll take somebody come out and saying like I was really inspired by that. You know, I mean like when young Thug goes, I feel like Fable.

I feel like Fable, you know what I mean? He was growing up listening to Fable like Fable is dope as fuck, you know what I mean. People are like looking at Fable like he was weird of time, or like, oh, lafe time, He's gonna kill a hip hop but it's original. And then you never know when somebody gets inspiration from. You never know a photography inspiration from. You never know who really inspires you. Like when I was a kid,

my favorite rapple was cannabis. I loved cannabis. I used to listen to cannabis, which is Jay Z versus cannabis, DMX versus Nori tapes. I used to love cannabis, man anything dealing with cannabis. I still think cannabis is dope. You know, eminem end up becoming like way bigger than cannabis. But I think in its prime, cannabis when it took out. If they weren't like prime, I didn't cannabis took eminem out.

Did you answer your question you post on Twitter? You said, who's the top five in the new millennium since two thousand and I was really thought about that too. It was the top five in the millennium since two thousand. M When you say top five, you're talking about lyricism that was on your Twitter. Just top five period. I would just say who top five, like I was thinking, I would go fifty cent, like the definitive top five since two thousand until now. So when, so how do

we start two thousand. I wouln't be very clear this because this only a big one, like we did they put they had to put out their first record past two thousands. Just I mean because fifty cent came out. Damn the in the nineties, right, I'd say two thousand three is fifty cents starting point. See, I was listening to The Problem Child and fifty bars this morning that came out. That's my favorite fifty cent record, which one fifty bar is a pleasant Yeah. I was just I

was living at this morning. So I wouldn't put fifty in two thousand's you want to put two thousand three? I think for the general majority of people, they say two thousand three, okay, so you're top five. I would say fifty cent. Kanye West, who else is there ship that was about I had another one. I would say maybe Nikki. Uh damn hen is nick You know that heber Nicki Minaye man. I mean you broke up with nick he talk about how you broke up with Nicki.

Nicki is one of the smartest, smartest business people I've ever met. And I wasn't ready to work with Nikki like I thought I was talent wise, but she was very demanded. And Nikki knows where she wanted to go like where she is now. She always knew where she wanted to go. She always knew that she was going to be that big. Like when I was working with Nikki, I thought she was gonna be like the next Foxy

Brown on the next little camps. She's like, I'm in the new jay Z Like yeah, like Nicky, Nikki broke all kind of boxes that you know that no one's ever really seen a hip hop She never took limitations of being an artist. So I mean, I take work with Nikki like I learned a lot from being So she was kind of more far along in some sense then you were. That's she had a vision. She used to wake up like early in the morning seven o'clock in the morning, didn't smoke it and drink was all

her business man like doing her rap. She she she like she was wrapping in the tub on the Finny mix safes when she was going to come up DVDs. Nicki Nikky always had a vision when she was first doing the mix sapes like Nicky always had a vision. That's why you don't get that big by accident. You don't be the only woman on the four of cliss by accident. She she bonded being trinidaddy and right and then you was managing. Usually we bonded being trinidaddian. We

bonded just like being young. And she gave me a shot, you know, because I was like twenty three years old, I had a company, and she really believed in me. So I always I always like when it didn't work out with me and her, I always looked at a like I was looked at at a real like low point for me, because when she was blowing up, I felt like a real failure. I felt like I gave

up on her. And I'm really happy where she is, but I felt like I can't give up anything that I believe in again, just because it got hard, and I was the last time I gave up on anything that I believed in because back then I was too cool for school. I was just like I noticed, like every time I noticed, like I don't, I don't care about anymore. You guys are on it now. I was a real hipster about it, like I've been on this, you know what I mean, I don't. I don't treat

like that no more. Now if I believe in something, I believe in it. I'm believing the fever because even that it was she was doing a vibe shoot or something right, she was on a vibe shoot, and like you know, she was right, like she was on a vibe. She showed up. It was like a big time thing for her. And like dude, she had no place to change. There was no trailer. And I was like in d C like with another client, and she's like, where are you? Where's my trailer? What's going on? What kind of manager

all you? And I was like, no, this is this, you know what I mean? You know, you gotta find somebody else. But she was right, she should have had a trailer, she should have a place to go. I should have been arranging these things. I should have been there, you know what I'm saying. And I learned a lot from that experience with Nikki. But I also learned never to like just quit and give up because things get hard. Things get hard now all the time. I'll get my

artists all the time about numerous mons of things. But guess what, I'm still here. We can fight. But guess what I'm showing up. I'm showing him to that show. I'm showing up to the next session. I'm showing him to whatever. We're still here. We're gonna rock out. So you don't have a relationship. The best, one of the best moments of my life happened when I reached out to her for the for the my Niggi remix and

I didn't know how that was gonna go. That was like a hall Mary shot in the dark, like that was.

It was kind of like that was kind of like me kind of like going on my own, let me see what happens, be stout and you know, I reach out to g like you really want Nikki on this, and he was like, you know what, she charged right, you know, you just reached out to see what she say And he calling back like y'all you know, Nikki said she's gonna do it and she's not gonna charge and she want to talk to you, you know what

I mean. And that was kind of like that was like five years after that, so that was like full circle, you know what I'm saying that I was like a great feeling of like because for the all that time, from like the point where like like that that was a real low point when I felt like I left Nikki,

because then I was like I didn't have Nikki. I had like an artist development company and I was going on to the famous firm things, which just like felt like I was just in a real dark spot in my life around that time, and I really had to make some adjustments. And I remember I reached a real low point. I remember I was like in a bookstore my ex girlfriend and I didn't have much money. I still love books, how much money? Like you didn't give me these books? Baby? She was like, no, man, you

got a lot of books at home. Why do you need more books? And I'm like, man, I'm a fucking loser. And I just I just went home and I woke up in the morning. I was in um, I was in Jersey, and you know, you know, pray for everybody in New Jersey Transit that kid me. You know, Like I took the New Jersey Transit to the city and

I had, like, I don't know much. I had eighty hollars, so I took like twenty dollars about a notebook and I wrote out my life and I was just like, you know what, this is how my life's gonna go. I'm like, this is what I'm just focused on. Artists developed me, I'm gonn focusing on. And I wrote out a page with a huge page, right, a whole page, and I fulled up the page and I kept in my pocket for like five years, you know what I'm saying. And I used to look at that every day and

I just said, I'm not gonna give up. I'm not gonna just settle. I'm not going to be a victim. I'm not gonna blame it, you know what I mean. And I would just wake up every day. They said Winter Churchill has a quote like, you know, success is going from failure to failure with the same enthusiasm. And then what happened was the first the first break I got was doing the famous Factory shows with double X out and you know, I used to get talked to

all the new artists. So we had people like Big Cred, Nipsey Hustle, Tomp Kennedy, Uh, Joel Ortiz, all these guys. And that got me in the new generation of hip hop because I was at the beginning another blog rap and what started really turned to some money when they first started really getting booking ages and things like that. That's when things started to change because because of the blog rap, they started getting on the radar of booking agents.

A book and agent started treating him differently and that, and you know, I was before the booking agents went over went over crazily. So I'll do these curated shows in Brooklyn with Double xele and Double x Cell giving the platform, and it created like a new customer. And from that point on, I reinvented myself until like you know, a promoter and I had these new things. I'm like, okay, cool, I'm not gonna miss this shout up. And from there

I went and got Richard deal with Wonder Brothers. And from the Wonder Brothers deal, I got the opportunity to be on Death Jam. And with the Death Sham deal, I end up meeting with Dirk and YG and working with Jeremy. You know, he did a lot with jem My. People don't really realize a lot. We didn't. What was the issue? Why was why was it always something He's always in this tumultuous thing with Death Jam? Like what's your opinion of that? Like why why didn't the music

come out on time? Like why do you think a lot of that was? It was a lot of drama before I got there, you know what I mean? Because you think about he's with Death Jam early like birthday, saxon down on me and like I was just hear the music, and I remember his manager Dilla like reached out to me by m Dirk's own manager, I speak, and they liked the way Dirk was moving around Chicago. So Jeremy was willing to give me a shot. I

want to give him, you know, shot out. And I started hearing the music, and he had all these amazing records, right, and I just don't think he was getting the attention for some political ship. But he was always had the talent and he had he was sending him bodies and bodies of work, and I was like, yo, man, let's put some of this stuff out, And the first record that we really worked on that was together was Don't

Tell Him. Because I was originally a mixed show speed Um, which just his court producer who did birthday sex down on me, Do Do Do Do? So it was my idea to go get Mustard and YG. So Mustard co produced it and the YG jumped on it, and then boom. That was kind of like Okay, Cob were coming back. But at the time, on his own, he had um the fun all the time song. I thought that was the best song in the world. That's a good record.

When they were taking him off records to right, he was mad, right yeah, and they take if he took him off a couple of kid Ink records, you know what I mean. And then he when he recorded down when he recorded it Don't Tell Him, he recorded that like like, look, I can make one of these kind of Mustard records and I can make it go crazy, and you know, that record end up charing bigger than the other two kid Ink records. You know what I'm saying.

Jeremiah's Revenge that's still that's still the biggest record I've been a part of chart wise, and that was like number six on the Billboard. Hot Lund you so I SA the next goal. I want to get the number one. But that last time you ended up working on most of it though, even though he wasn't there when it came out. Well, you know, I think a lot of when you finished the album, A lot of part of being a great and was finishing like anybody could be

a part of like certain records. I was there for a lot of those records, but I left before it was over. So I always feel like I always feel a little bit like I let like Jeremond Dirk down a little bit when I switched labels because I didn't see their projects so all the way through. So I gotta, you know, some regrets with that, because the closes the most. The closing of it is the most important all the part.

You know, you can do all the records in the world, you get everything go on, but when it's time to close, like putting in the music business, putting h album to market is the absolutely hardest thing to do because that's when things get really tough. That's when the money is on the line. That's when the millions of dollars of promotion, That's when you better be right that's when it's no more creative. Like it's still creative, but it's still like

you have to understand the market. You have to understand the competitive release schedule. You have to understand what else is coming out at that time. You have to understand why you're gonna drop it. What's a good time in a dropping Everybody is nervous, and you gotta be cool on the pressure, and you gotta be able to deliver, and you gotta deliver creatively for your artists, and you gotta make sure you don't flop, and you gotta make you a lot of things happen. Thanks do you think

new artists make coming into the game. I think a lot of them don't do research. A lot of them just kind of like have bad teams. I think I would I would do more researcher, like who I'm gonna be a partner of, who I'm gonna work with, or why I'm gonna do things. I don't think a lot

of them don't have any strategy. I think if you come up with with an I know a few artist are coming in with a bunch of hits, so you're like, we don't need anybody, but but you know, The hard part about being in this game or any game, and any as a business person or just incorporate or wherever you are in life is not to do when you're hot, when you're cold, what's your relationships like when you're not hot,

let's picking up that phone? Who's returning your text? Yeah, So a lot of these new artists, they get hot, they saw curving people. They don't want to do things. You know what I'm saying, You don't you'll speak about one of the favorite things you talk about what we call the sign fatigue, Like sometimes all the sign and that's the big victory, and then they don't want to work. Yeah, they signed and retired. You go fight and you get these artists at one point three or four point five

million dollar deal. They have a five hundred thousand dollar advance, They moved the house, they're chilling, smoke a weed. They that was the goal. They didn't know there was I gotta work now. They didn't know there was something else besides. Do you see anytime you see those big deals with people like I signed for multimillion dollars nine nineteen times out of twin They're gonna that's gonna fail. What do you think of artists though, like a jail ectrynic is

that won't put his music out. But you also say there's also to be a courage and creation, like some artists never really feel to me comfortable to really findly let that go to the world, Like how do you get artis to feel that way? Now this is ready, It's time to share this with the world, Like we have to get this. That's what I think. That's what I think a big job is for the n R. You have to you gotta think about what making a

song is like, right. Imagine is going in a in a dark room and just like coming up with something in your head and mumbling right and then doing it, like how does that sound right? And then the whole world judging it. It's like that's good, that's bad. It's instantly now, instantly, and it's the scariest thing in the world. So imagine that you're working on that for a year, two years, and you're working on this album and the whole world hasn't heard. They have to trust you because

you're like the first fan. You're in there telling them, yeah, this is dope or this is whack, and they have to really you have to really make them comfortable to hand over that master, So like, YO, bring this home because they put their whole life into this and they don't want to be embarrassed. You don't want to be and then make something coin with Can you imagine drop know what the dropping a whack albums feel like? Think

about it. Imagine imagine working on something for like a year, six months, two years and people just online roasting you, likesh put the Michael Jordan's face on your album. That has to be the absolute worst feeling in the whole world. This is this is your this is your artistic expression, and people are just shipping on you left the right. No one wants to feel like that. So you have to make the people feel comfortable that I'm not going to embarrass myself. This is gonna go great and people

are gonna love it. But that moment before that the album is about to hit, it's the scariest time in the whole world. It's exciting, but it's scary because you don't know what people are gonna say. Are you just eating by standards? I think when you though you love to we'll get to watch your second album, we watch the first album. The fact that it came in like number two. You was upset about that, right, because you still have the creative goals, Like we didn't remember I

took the market, you know, to understand the market. I didn't. I was not experienced as an executive. Is my first album. So we fought first certain release date, not knowing that the Frozen soundtrack was gonna come out. So when they were like, yeah, you guys probably gonna come in number two because of the Frozen soundtrack, I'm like, what's Frozen?

I don't know that. You know, every other artist, probably being the country artist, being everybody in the Frozen cuntrack came out of nowhere, and that was like depressing because being number one, including with the Grammys and crive goals, that was another goal. So we came to number two and I was really I was really depressed for a little bit. I was thinking the house just like just I don't really want to go nowhere. People call me like,

are you talking about people love the album? Still number one Hip hop R and B. It's so right, nah, nah, it's number two. So being but after a while, you know, you're still being the number one in the world a rap out. I'm still huge accomplishment. R and B being number two losing to the Frozen soundtrack, Like I watched the movie and I felt better. I think this movie

is dope. Could you work with an artist that you don't like as a musically as a person, Like no, musically, Na, that's the tough part, Like you know what I'm saying. That's when you asked me, Like who am I working with? Next? Is like you gotta go like the artists work of the dopest, so like you're setting standard now right, Yeah, your friends with you would consider yourself real friends with great friends. But even if the record would sell and

you just don't like it, you just wouldn't know. Because that goes against what I was talking about earlier. For I was like going to the store, like you know that the type of girls that I like to like places I like to go, I like, I like the cool ship. I like I like the ship that being dope, I like people going on to be like I really

liked your album. If I can't make like um, I'm not sold a bunch of records and nobody really liked it, It's kind of like I would if I made like Chinning back in the day, how did you I was thinking about sold three million copies right, And I'm like, yo, may you want to go to the chine show tonight And she's like, get out of here, out my face. Man, I would hate myself, you know what I'm saying. It's still because it's still that's not dope, Like I still

want to be dope. I never want like the sales is no, it's not my being dope and me and it was still number one to me out of everything I do. Like I even like I don't even like go crazy on social media or nothing because it's tough for me to do stuff. It's tough for me to do stuff like this because I'd be like, man, do interviews whack like you know what I mean? Like, but so I have to, like I really working. We did

like the Rosenthalls and Mary Choy and these things. Yeah, Like I like, I think you guys are dope, Like you know what I mean. I listened to the podcast. I think it's dope. I think you guys do your research thing. It's ill like being a rap radar. It's ill, you know what I mean? What else is ill? That?

No matter what, like you said, you felt kind of Funny leaving Jeremiah leaving Dirt, but you stay with YG like it was adamant that you was still gonna be involved with his second album even though you went off to you know, like how did you make that happen? Well, it's like me and y G I was like our first time. That was his debut album and that was

my debut album, you know what I'm saying. So after you have a connection like that with somebody, like you're not gonna get that up, Like you know what I'm saying, Like you gotta see that all the way through. And you know, I hope to work with my whole life. I don't hope we do fifty albums together, you know what I'm saying, Like, is that that feeling that you guys did together, Like when we're just looking at each other like Okay, we gotta make this work, you know

what I mean? Like that we experienced that together, we're almost like war buddies, you know what I'm saying, So like we're not. That was just incredible. So I can't

I can't do that. So now, like that's the type of connection I'm used to with my artists, Like with Travis, I've known artist Travis for since two thousand and twelve and then for a long time because before you had his record there, you know, so to see him the number one album is one of the most gratifying things, like I haven't seen in my whole life, you know what I mean? Seeing why do you have platinum records?

It's gratifying, Like you know what I mean. It's like your brothers getting something like when they when when when they do good? I do good? So you never you can't go work with like somebody whack over there and be like, yo, we're just doing it for money, because that's not when I'm selling the studio. I'm like, we gotta be the dopest, we gotta be the elliest, Like we gotta be number one. We gotta tap take out

Who's number one? I can't start now being like no, this this play gonna work, you know what I mean? The fun out there, but what was the approach was still brazy and also he had to go through things like he got shot, Like how will you do with all that stuff? Still Crazy was just dope because the album is called Still Crazy for a little bit because we wanted to have like a continuation off because we have we had to have a continuation off of my

crazy life. That was the idea, and that's why the intros the same had the father instead of the mother. It was a continuation of for my crazy life. I was always the whole time. And then um, you know we had like that's funny. The last song on the album is also the first song that we recorded, police get Away with Murder, and we wanted to put that out right away. We recorded like last m December two

thousand and fourteen, generate to that fifteen. But you're like, nah, black people still gonna getting shot and unfortunately even more relevant now. Yeah, we're like and and it was crazy because at that time it was like a bunch of other people getting murdered. So that was the first thing and that we was going through it, you know, trying to figure out the records and records are coming slow. And then life happened. Life became over to her. You know that that was one of the worst nights ever,

when you know, we were all in the studio. It was tacoed Tuesday. Um, everybody was chelling and I went out with a girl who just sing to eat on the black Roller Studio City and like I'm not a block, remember like five minutes away and you're like, yo, man, why you just got shot? And you know, like he's

just it was just dark. It was just like man like that was just like like you know, it's somebody like y'all remember that everything I just described, like imagine that person, like you could lose them, you know what I mean. And that night at the hospital and being in I was just like a horrible place. But you know one thing about why g he's resilting. He popped up, crutches moving around, came in recorded um who caught it all? Who shot me? The next day? And crutches in the studio.

It's one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. I feel like that album isn't as appreciated as My Crazy Life. Do you feel that way or Um? Creatively

it is. I don't think it has to hit records on it like My Crazy Life had, And like that's like the other intangibles like maybe like the rollout could have been a little bit better, but as far as like sonically, I feel like I feel like, you know, remember, that's that's why the idea has to be, That's why your goals can't be a hundred percent into the all the other stuff. That's why I completed the idea. We completed the idea like we wanted to do, and I

think we nailed it. You know, we didn't have to hit on it. It happens. We're gonna have more shots. But one thing that people are gonna be able to do is go back and say the album is dope. I look at the album like his American Gangster. They'll be appreciated more later, you know, later, Like American Gangster didn't have any hits, but now people say it's that. Lot of people say it's their favorite jay Z album.

A lot of people say the Fairy Jayz. A lot of people say it's the top three jay Z album. You know what I'm saying. But like you know, rock Boys was in the hit, but it's dope or something him not not not the number of in any empire state of mind. I also feel like he doesn't get

in a process. For Donald Trump, like obviously, you know, thinking of the world we're in right now, and how strong that statement that was, Like how did that come together that he was going to really heat that out of his own you know, And that's why I said one thing about what he's like. He always he's always growing, and you know he's he's not always been like the

most political person. But he felt something and he went in and spoke his mind about it, and then and stuck to it and stuck to his guns, even with the pressure, even when the song and all that they wanted him to do, even when editing the song, even when um, you know, the Secret Service reaching out acting to see the lyrics to the whole album. You know what I'm saying, Like he could have went and done anything, he could have fell back. He just had it as

a viral song. He pushed to get on his album and he named his toy that so like he's over there, like he's he's got the Donald Trump. He's campaigning, you know, and and and and so to the kids, that's like rock boys, Like that's not probably the biggest hit, but that song is probably the most important song in his career, taking off for life of his own. Wow, you think

it's the most important song his career? And think about it, Like when he does the show, he closed the show, Donald Trump, You don't close with who do you love? You don't close with my nigger. He closed with Donald Trump, because that's what it's getting to the people, Like, that's what people feel, and that's what hip hop is about. You know. Hip hops about expressing what the people are feeling.

And I feel really proud to be a part of something that was like pretty much one of the only protest records this year, and definitely the only protest records that were pushed, Like we pushed that as a record, like you know what I mean, like in the time, in a time where like it's a lot of things going on, like I was in the march. I was in the march and a Black Black Lives Ladder March.

I'll shared on the video later and um in l A and we were marching in Inglewood was shutting down the four or five and then only two songs were chanted and hours We're gonna be all right and fun Donald Trump And when he saw the sharing, Donald Trump, I was like, Okay, cool, this is one. This is this is what, this is what it's all about, Like this is this is why I'm in the music business. And I don't work for Mit Sacks. Heally wanted to do I did, like towns and you wanted to work

in Nike right now. I wanted to work in Nike town and I interned from going Mit Sacks in high school. So like in Fox News, ironically, I was gonna say that album stuff, I think this might be my favorite rap album this year. So why he did it again? Album a year so far, so good? Yeah, not two years the other year, right, yeah? More or less? Yeah were number We were number six on the Billboard list that came out the other day in all genres. So like that, That's like what I still get nervous about.

It's like those year end lists, like I read all of them. You care about those? Oh yeah? Right? Are times we have to do the list. It's like you saw getting the ones. These are the ones that didn't make it. I'm like, I want, I want, I want to in it this year, you know what I mean? I want I want two albums and that motherfucker this year. And I expect every list of album Yeah, you know, I just and that's that's that's that's always the goals. But being number one is nice, and having something like

Donald Trump being sold culturally relevant really nice. But speaking because what's going on with you with this cameraman? And also I think he took the fixed picture of Bill Clinton and Travis Scott. What the hell are they talking about it? America? Man, they looked too happy to be chatting. I have no idea what they was talking about. I was just there because what happened was, um, we're talking and got the guy's name. Man, this politician came at

the traveling you want to go meet the president. So the whole time I'm thinking, like it was like, um, Obama, I think it's Obama. And we get there, it's like Bill Clinton, He's like, come with me, bring a camera, you know what I'm saying. So like we're getting close. We're getting close, and like it was just like it was like a round table. Like everybody in there. It's like Beyonce, Chance to wrapp U and Carmelo Anthony and it's just like, oh, man, I admit it. You bold

man used to put your joint out like paparazzi. But now I was scared. I was scared because it was like it was like a round table with like jay Z Punch from t D, Travis and like Bill Clay just talking. I'm like, whoa, you know what I mean? And they were all like kind of in there and like um punch. His boy kind of taught me, like you want to take the photo like I tell you

on my camera if the camera died. So I'm like, so Travis like keep looking like give me a camera, I'm gonna take the photo because he because he wanted to just take the photos himself, because he like he liked the grains of a camera, like destructions. So that other guy who's put clemon photographers like wy, don't you take my camera like not like six camera know how

to use it that at all. Because Travis was the one who actually got me into give me the confidence to get a photography and I'm gona tell you have to tell the story, right. So then they gave me give me his phone, like you just take this phone, and he took the picture. And that's how to picture of my viral. And that's if it's I like, I like taking photos because it's like remember after the whole story of of the ups and downs, I don't take any of this shift for granted. No more, I don't

take any day for grant. I don't take this for granted. I know one day I'm gonna be able to go back and I would like to see the pictures, Like you might forget a day like this, right, but if I have a photo of you guys, then I'll never forget it. You know what I'm saying, because I have put me right back to how I felt in that moment. And you know, it's the craziest thing you ever heard

about digital archiving, you know what that said? Like, so like when our kids, when we die, our kids and grandkids are gonna know exactly who we are, Big Stone, who you are online? So all your snapshot, your tweets, your Facebook messages and Instagram, it's all going to be collected and then people are gonna look at that and feel like this is who my grandfather was, this is who my great uncle was. It's crazy, right think about it. Yeah,

so I want I'm trying to document. I'm trying to carry minds when they see mine, Like, y, my granddad was dope, you know, like we can see his flies was let Yeah, exactly back to the Made of America Travis and Bill, Bill, even though it's musical, even know who you was. That was tripping me out. Like they were talking about the music, they were talking. It was just kicking it, like and t was a big day

for Travis. He sent me a picture the other day like Y'll make sure, like, you know, get this frame. So it was like, I like that had a dope, yeah, you know, and Bill is a funny motherfucker man, so they over their cracking jokes, you know. I think like he was in there, you know, like that's kind of like Hillary, you want to be have that approach. But I think it's dope that they were in the field like that. That's crazy. Yeah. So I love I love taking the photos like I got im for two seventeen.

My goal is to do a few galleries, you know what I mean, want to do like doing a lot of black and white too, right, Yeah, I read somewhere that like, you know, while some photographers are get to both, you better just to pick a color and stick with it. So like I'd rather just try to get good. So last year I was telling Travis I wanted to get in the photography, and he's really supportive, Like, you know, he's a great he's a great artist and multiple things.

So he's like, if you didn't do it, do it black and white and do it on film. So the whole two dollars fifteen I just shot on film cameras for the whole year, and then this year I bought this cameras and gifts to myself to show like because this is digital, it's like a point of shoot. And then I was I'm just playing different styles, you know what I'm saying. So like now I was trying to shoot like the black and white I'm trying to do

the tour lifestyle photos. And now what I'm doing is like a black and white paparazzi flash style, which is cool. So I'm gonna posting you guys. You guys wanna see it on my Instagram. It's like big bright like in your face. Is really cool. We're in it. Oh man, we out of man too much sick and more, too many jewels. Man, I gotta thank you too, My wife said hard cover. But you contributed to that. Thank you so much for I think Hall covers to the genius idea. Man.

I showed love with that. Man, he was he inspired that to actually get it done. Man, when you had a great talk with her about it, like what it really meant because I grew up. You know, remember if I wasn't in music, I would be to take my job when I'm not. You wouldn't be the go to hip hop journalist. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not as good as to speaking as you are, you know what I'm saying. But I would. I definitely would have been a journalist. I would definitely probably work for a rap radar.

I wouldn't been. I still think I'm a journalist. That's why I can't see that side coming out more you That's what I'm saying with the cameras. But I get you know, even when I used to blog for you, I used to get in a lot of trouble, Like I had people who were really because I was very oppinionated. My writing style was very comparative, you know what I'm saying. Oh yeah, what was your thing? He made a big statement about easy Wheezy and Jeezy right here. It was

a new biggie jay Z and Nas for this generation. Yeah, the power of Easy Wheezy and Jeezy at that time, and like to really frame it against a Biggie jay and Nas. It was like that was a controversial statement back then, but people lost their ship, you know what I'm saying. So after a while after doing that and like because other people were right, they don't have to see people like in the office. So like imagine he roast something about somebody didn't have a meeting with them.

The next day you're looking at you like you know this guy. So I was like, you know what, I got to find another medium, and I can't find that creative medium until um I did this. I'm gonna start a blog though i'mnn start writing again. I'm just gonna it's called I'm just like sick Moore dot Co. And I'm just gonna just start posting about stuff I just but it's like I gotta be like real easy about it, like what I post about. But I have opinions on ship, so I want to be like I'm not gonna be

like Pete Rose. I'm not gonna really talking about the game. I think you should self published something like hardcover, or you should self published work too, because then you always want thing to have life, even though with such a digital age though, to have that tangible book though, like that will be there forever to you know, I was be those books. I want I want to I want to do that every year. I want to do like have a little books all on my photos and send

it to my friends. With family frame photos, you know what I'm saying, just to have those memories, because I feel like if I just keep taking photos in like twenties ten five ten fetures, Like I look at old photos from like the nineties, and some of the photos aren't the illess photos, but they just like, in fact, do you even have a photo of him doing that? I remember this one biggie phone in particular, He's just chilling in and it's like a tape recorder there and

he's just kind of zoned out. It's just dope that you had like a black and white biggie So like, I like all these photos of taking on the Travis and y G and each generation and you know, you guys just gonna it's gonna be big, Like we're gonna look back, like, man, I remember that shirt. Man I remember having that thing, like you know what I mean,

Like it's it's it's it's on. And I'm getting a lot of support from the photography community, you know what I mean, Like the like the ravings, the vance stylethday birthday rave, you know what I mean. Ronal, I think it's incredible. This girl, y'am know who does a lot a lot of a lot of mellis. It's just incredible creatives, young creatives, and they give me a lot of support. They give me a lot of tips. That's how you got a story. Photos, that's what you gotta do. It's

really really sick. So like I really appreciate that support of the photography community because I take that real serious. So go you know one day, maybe I'm just like, you know what i mean, I'm just anything music wise, we should go out for the guys. Some surprise signing you gonna do for Christmas or something? Many final things you want to say music wise or again, how can these young artists get sick of more to Dream? Would be sick of more to A and R the project?

Like was there anything they can do to catch your eye? Um? Yeah, just it just can't reach out, you know what I mean. I think I'm thinking I'm like more accessible than most of the guys because like I'm not going to mix a lot, you know what I'm saying, Just like, but just come up there, don't just come up with numbers, talk about like what the vision is for the project. You know what I'm saying, because the guys who work

where have a lot of vision. You know what I'm saying, and I like to make like bets and like my my two thousand seventeen that is going to be New York City. I think saying that, I think, I think your two thousands seventeen. You know, somebody my friend was telling me explain to me my friend Fatia, who does like protecting magic. She broke down to me. She was like, you know, numerology, a two thousand seventeen is a year of completion. It's seven plus one plus two, you know

what I mean. That's where the year it comes home. So I really believe two thousands seventeen is going to be the year where New York City comes out into as a superpower again. Like don Que like t VS. I like what he Boogie's doing, young man. You know yeah, I think. I think if you if you look at everything that's going on and you think of all the other intangibles, like the you gotta think of something like Hamilton's you know what I mean, popping up. All this

stuff works with each other. The art scene is really going crazy, like too Southern Beats the other day for like a David Bowie event, it was like popping then you gotta go the design scene is doing great. Then the sports is exciting. We have the most exciting it's got a little energy. Now we've got the most exciting football player in the whole game, like once the last time. That's the most exciting football playing the history of the Giants.

You know, maybe an argument lt the most exciting those exciting offensive player we ever had. You know what I'm saying. The next half of New Look, the Yankees got a new kid. Gary Sanchez is really killing it like we gotta. It's the whole city's like cracking right now. Renaissance fabulis back. It's for two thousand seventeen. If I have to make it, bet if you you know, not even need stock tips. Man, I'll bet on New York. So we'll always bet on

Sycamore Man, creative mom. Man, thank you so much. Man, this is a question. Man, yeah, man, sicklemore, wrap right up, podcasts. We are there right now.