Yeah, rapp Rate up podcast. Elliot Wilson Speed, you know what's up baby feeling good man? We got a show today, Baby's very own Royce the five nine to five nine, Amazing MC, the Allegory albums out now now the Scott's producing. He's even got production on them and them album Sir. He's doing a little bit of everything everything, man, He's done a lot of ter of you speaking to do a lot of everything, man, But I think we will get so, we gonna get some gems out of him.
It's gonna be a real conversation. He seems to be peeved at these wack mcs. Let's do it, man, Let's get into it man to rapp errate up Boys at back. Yeah, rapp rate our podcast title. We've been tricked trick and then thinking we need back. We needed this trick, the thinking six feet back we could pritch trick nine A little gentleman. One of the best dress press rounds I've seen two legends. Man, Sorry that I'm not wearing a suit right now. Extremely cold outside, man, so holding the NYC,
I had to dress down. But it is honoring the privilege to be here. Thank you. You've got this fire album though allegory man, Man, yeah, I put my best foot forward and put my best foot forward. It's called the Allegory is out. Now. I'm just happy. Man. You know you made us all look up that word none of us knew with That's cool, that's cool. You're a journalist, you guys are You're supposed to be teaching me words
and stuff. Now you're teaching us. But that was part of it, too, like to not to kind of draw I've seen a lot of the stuff you said about it is like almost testing like what people know and like drawing out these ideas, not necessarily claiming everything is your but also exploring other ideologies like yeah, yeah, of course, why did you land on? That is sort of the direction of the album. I mean, it just sort of happened. It started happening like that, you know, like I'm the
odor that I get. I'm just I'm growing into this junkie for information. I love taking in new information. I love um determining what I feel is true, what I feel it's not true. I love looking at the general sets, the general sets of information that we received starting in kindergarten, started from kindergarten to now and then just weighing that against other information that I'm taking in. It's just a fun thing to do. It keeps me out of trouble,
you know what. It started out with me making beats, with me starting trying to make beats. So within the year, within the year, Yeah, so I just started. I went down a rabbit hole of just making beats. DJ Premier showed me how to use NPC. Mr Porter showed me how to use logic, and one thing led to another. Um, I wrote to one beat, laid something down on it that turned into two songs, and I know that I don't age was the was the first production. An original idea was to do a EP. Yeah, but when did
it become the thing? Where? Like and also to even have, like you said, making this transition of you being a full fledged producer of your own content, like, that's a lot of ambition to say I'm just gonna make this a whole, full project. I would love to take that credit to see it just kind of happened. I can't say that I necessarily had the confidence to say, Okay, I'm about to do I'm gonna produce my whole album.
The overthinker me the obsessive compost of Royce to five nine that actually worked to my advantage for a change, under saying, so when I agreed to do the EP, I couldn't figure out how to make three or four songs feel like that they can because this together and sound like a complete thought being. I was like, I don't age with some of the other songs that made the album. Yeah, it was just a couple of other songs,
maybe a couple that didn't make the album. Because it was early on in my mind the only way to approve upon that was to add to it. So I just kept adding to it, adding to it, trying to pick the best three or four songs, and it just started to turn into something. You know, us as artists, we kind of got these instincts, you know. So I just started feeling like, okay, I think Keno came into town and listen to some stuff and was like, man,
you got an album. You almost got an album here, Like we just shook yeah, because I had um, I'm in a partnership with the one right now and I owed them one more album. So I was just thinking to myself, like, how do I when? When was I gonna do that album? I didn't know when I was gonna do it, and then this one just started turning into an albums and you know me, I'm not gonna just like throw some stuff together just to you know, fulfilling agreement. I'll take years if I need to, you
know what I mean. So, um, I was about, like you said, maybe seventy seventy of away. So when I decided that I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna call it the album and I'm gonna add a few songs to it to complete it. That's when it became tough because now I got it in my mind that I'm producing the whole thing. Now it's pressure, right, So you decide that point you because you could have just fixed it by getting let me get one premier beat one. But
my album's done. Like while I was telling to go all the way to the fittest line, because I was looking at it like, what's the use of announcing that I'm producing? Now? There and I got like seventy percent of it where I did it already, what's the use of having porter or out, you know what I mean? Like there was a great bellouts though, Yeah, but everybody, everybody already associates me with these masters. They always they already associate me with them. So it's nothing. It's nothing
really the write home about. So I just I just decided to take on the task. But it didn't have much to do with my ambition. But it seems like you tested the waters like a year prior because you put out the record Field Negro and you produced that as well. It seems like listening to that record, it feels like it's a prelude to allegories that to say, yeah,
it kind of ended up like that. Um. The reason why Field Negro didn't make the album is because in this grand scheme of the track listing, it felt like it was paulse It felt long, you know what I mean. So I was just like, is it needed? It's been out already. UM. I used a couple of like clips that I pulled from off YouTube. I don't know how I felt about trying to clear him. That's why I felt it feels like it fits the album theme because
of the little samples of yeah it was there was it? Um? Originally, UM, I was gonna call it white powder. Yeah, the album I was gonna call it white Powder, and Field Negro actually fit the older track listing a little bit better. You know, it came out. I remember Keeno came intown again and he was like, yo, it sounds kind everybody know Keen. Everybody everybody hates him like I do. So
he was like, yeah, it's kind of dark. And one thing I did not want to do it was a dark album, especially a dark album that's informative and um dark album that expresses different ideologies. I just didn't want that to be taking the wrong way. I didn't want people to be offended, you know what I mean, in any kind of way, or think that I was taking some type of stance against you know, this kind of people or that kind of people already, you know what I'm saying. So I just kept working on it until
it became a little bit brighter. I did the same thing with Book of Ryan. I just didn't make the beats. I didn't want it to sound dark. I didn't want people to think that I was in a dark place, even though it was the album that I you know that what made it brighter here just sonically, just sonically, um brighter beats. Some of the beats were kind of harder, darker, you know what. I mean and um, some of the inflictions in my voice. You know, I may have been
rapping it up and been hitting it a little bit harder. Yeah, because I like to do that, I meane, so sometimes sometimes sometimes when I do that, it gets misconstrued as anger or and it's just it's just passionate, you know what I'm saying. So also, the production yourso draw the section of you ain't necessarily feel like you should be in the ring battle and everybody beat for beat, he says about making the right beat. Yeah, necessarily not just
the best beat. Like talk about that, like, why why does that production you created yourself fit you so well? I mean, I think that's always the case. I think that's always the case when you have something that that connects. We always look and even when I when I get beats from people, when people send me beats, I always look for the proper marriage between the vocal and the beat.
I think that's any good song, any good song. And then you know, I just learned over the years that that proper marriage is not created through the best rap that you can say and the best beat that you can make. It's not created through that. It's created through the right marriage. So it's about hearing the beat and deciding. Y'all ever seen what was that documentary with jay Z
did Dirt off his shoulders with Timberland uh fator Black? Yeah, it was like perfect because it was like he was in there and he took a stab at it, and I remember some of the delivery not being as sharp is it us when he finally finished it and just that re cut made it perfect. You know what I'm saying. Even though that beat is phenomenal, but it may not go down to history. It's the best Timberling beat you'll ever here, but because of what they did together, it's classics,
you know what I'm saying. So how do you stay inspired? Because I know the recompendulum. You say you don't pay attention to the climate since the name, Well, I was like, now, I wasn't talking about me, se I was talking about um the obligatory rapper. The obligatory rapper. Yeah, the obligatory rapper that wants at all but doesn't want to put
in the work that it takes to have longevity. And um, I do feel like you have to be aware of what's going on to a degree, but UM, I don't think that you should allow that to send you down a rabbit hole where you're trying to um make something that blends in exactly with what's happening sonically at the time. Because ultimately you want to make something that's a a
little bit different from what's happening. You want to take it somewhere if you don't want to blame and then you don't want to be the camouflage you want to be. You want to take it somewhere else. Because best believed the people that you're trying to sound like they're already doing some other ship now, because the ship that you're listening to the ship that they were working on last year,
you know what I mean. So I thought it was great that you put the Overcomer out first, because it wasn't even just about Ogre's eld that's hot, this guy's hot. The the orangin of that song obviously, like you talked about, you know, the soul sample, very Griselda, but all the other elements and sign that you add to the song. It shows how unique the approaches and with your production and with this album, was that right? That was the right record to put out first. It was one of
the one of the reasons. One of the reasons, Um, Another reason was I just really liked that song, and then and then um, and then another reason. It's just you know, like I feel like this is my most experimental eclectic I always say if it was like if if I was splashing paint on the canvas, just to be the most amounts of paint being ash all over the place, like it's very scatter brain, and I tried to do that on purpose and make that a good thing. Confusion. Yeah, yeah,
beautiful noise, beautiful beautiful chaos. Exactly what you felt. Maybe Book a Ryan was so very much like you honed in on the concept and now that like more conceptually. No, I wasn't thinking about Book around at all. I was just I was just, Um, I was just thinking about I've just had a vision of like this this ecosystem existing in my in my head where it's all of these things going on. You know, there's all of these people. That's why you hear the guy on the corner preaching.
You know, it's like this imaginary land that's actually reality, you know, and there's all of these different ideologies flying everywhere, all of these different perspectives and That's why you know the allegory, the cave theory by Plato inspired it because it delves into perspective, and I'm I'm intrigued by perspective
these days, you know what I'm saying. Like, everybody's perspective can be different, but you know, everybody's perspective is their respective truths because of the way they see it, you know what I'm saying. Well, also when the message that you said the energy never lies when you're overcoming, yas you never dies when you're an overcomer, what do you mean exactly when you say that, what is it to
be an overcomer? Well, well, to be an overcomer is the um come from humble beginnings, And Um, there's a such thing as being forced into a certain way of life, and then there's also a such thing as taking that and turning it into a positive And I feel like, um, there's nothing like a young, young, underprivileged child, you know, from the ghetto, you know what I mean, who who doesn't have the same amenities as some of his contemporaries,
and then just turning that into something incredible. You know, America is great in that way, you know what I mean? Now, when I say the energy never lies. When you're an overcomer, I feel like you have numbers and then you have energy. The numbers can lie, those can be doctored, those can be you have that many fans, you can You can be looking at views and it's no gauge to say that people are liking what they see. You know, people can be looking at some ship and talking crazy about it.
Look at this garbage, you know what I'm saying. But you got the energy. The energy is like what Griselda has. You know what I'm saying. They got the energy that doesn't lie. You can't manipulate that. Like Nipsey. There was a certain number that represented Nipsey when he was alive, but when he died, that energy something that was not indicative of those numbers. Nobody could turn it down, nobody could slow it down, nobody could determine how it affects us.
It was ever existent, nobody could do anything about it. It was like the universe was just screaming at us. And that's what I'm talking about. That's what I gauge, that's what I like to follow. So like throughout my whole rollout, I've just been focused on energy. I haven't really been focused on like you know, like out selling this guy or out doing this guy or anything like that. I just I just try to keep the energy good,
up and positive. Like on the record, fool, what you said is everything the cold truism, Like what do you mean by that? I don't chase clout, I don't chase smoke, you know, like, um, I think I'm one of the one of the examples that you don't have to do all of these things in order to garner attention, cut through the noise, just put the emphasis on being very good at what you do, whatever your craft is. And this's there's such things as masters and all facets, city ship.
You know what I'm saying. Future is a master. You know what I'm saying. Drake is a master, Kendrick is a master. You know what I'm saying, Jake Cole their masters. They're practitioners. They're not just there's not some ship they do on their way to the club. And I feel like, just put the effort into the art and everything else falls in place. So you know, all of the antics and you know, like on Instagram live arguing with people and all of this ship. It's funny to watch. It's
funny to watch the record. You included the Soldier Boy one on one of the records. Why did you decide to use that for the Okay, first of all, it's because I'm a Soldier boy staying. That's first of all. Roy's the Soldier Boys staff man. I love that kid. Man, I love that kid because, um, he's a number one. He's a businessman. He's a businessman, and he's fearless. He's fearless. He's taking a lot of risks. He hit the target
on something, missed, missed on others. I think he's a testament to nobody's gonna come fire you, nobody's gonna come remove you, cancel exactly. Nobody can cancel you when you're living inside of your truth. So as long as you as long as you portray that, you know, like there's no such thing as an l there's no such things, you know what I mean. And Soldier Boy, I'm telling you when he when he sobers up, when he sobers up,
he's gonna be a real problem. But even sometimes, like I know you don't play social medias, but there was even time with the Lord Marting you got a nag live, so we all could be susceptible to that, Like, is that's something that you that you look back at you have any regrets of doing? Or no, No, I don't
have no regrets with that. I mean, UM, the only thing that I can honestly say out of that situation that I that I would probably switch around is anything that I may have said that he could have taken offense to in terms of feeling disrespected. I don't, you know, I don't. I never want to disrespect the O. G. S. And I never want to say anything that's gonna come across like I'm trying to in any way take away
from his legacy or anything like that. You know what I'm saying, Like I respect him, I respect Brand Nubian, I respect Grandpoo, but I respects to dot X and UM, it's just difficult to be able to convey that and disagree with something that he may be saying or yeah yeah, so it's like it's not like I'm trying to defend him. It's like, you know, like I spoke about things when I when my name was mentioned. I spoke about things when my name was mentioned, and only time I ever
challenged what he said, was just on Twitter. I was just challenging him on some cool ship. You know what I'm saying. I felt like I kept respectful. You didn't keep respectful Kid Rock though, well I don't respect kid Rock. Please shut the funk up and get a publicist before you start a fire. You're gonna put out by the people who aren't interested in your million dollars millions of dollars I said, please, this is apple juice. By the way,
did you ever look at that? Like maybe I should have did the yellow Wolf thing, because now I gotta keep talking about this guy. And it's kind of like you known incident in your past it, but you put it on the song and we have to ask you about it, Like do you look at it now, like, no, it's maybe it wasn't the right decision to put it on the song. No, not at all, not at all.
It's cool, It's all right, you know what I'm saying. Like, um, I feel like everybody should be allowed to say what they want to say and feel how they want to feel, as long as everybody is willing to, you know, standing in the center of their truths. If they get held accountable. I'm personally somebody who's gonna hold you accountable? If I feel disrespected, it's a powerful way you held them accountable.
I think it's actually gonna him. That's why people we got attached to it, right, like globle status may not be to the level whatever, but I think the way you're addressing on the song and the power and how you say it. Yeah, and also like I considered him a friend, you know. So it's like I hold my friends to a certain standard. There's certain expectations that I have for all of my friends, you know, and I never you never really saw me. I don't ask for respect.
None of us should have to. None of us should have to. We give respect, we get respect. You see me, You hear me. I'm respectful. You don't hear me disrespecting people. You know what I mean? If I if I say something about somebody on the record and I'm taking a friendly job, it's just all in fun. If you feel disrespected by that, I apologize. You think on his that he realized the weight of it because you said it
was a disrespectful situation. He did something disrespectful. Do you think he realized that he was stepping out in a crossing the line with you. Yeah, he knew exactly what was going on, and that was one of the disrespectful things, you know what I'm saying, Like he knew exactly what was happening, but he didn't feel like he need it
to make a phone call. He didn't feel like he needed to contact me and clarify anything because he's he feels entitled, you know, just like he reached out to me when you know, all the other antics kind of wore out and nothing else was working and he reached out. And that's again the same entitled behavior. Now you wanted to stop on your terms, you know, And it's just it's it's it's a situation where you just need to check yourself, take a look in the mirror and realize
that this is hip hop. This is something that embraces you and any no matter how anybody looks, hip hop will embrace you and you can build a beautiful life for yourself. All you have to be is respectful to the man. And that's it. That's it. That's it. It's not it's nothing super personal like that. I don't wish anything, you know, I wish him nothing but the best. It's not like I'm gonna say, people kind of misconstrued the line that you said about Kanye and wile A on
other field need Bro. Is that kind of like in line you're talking about. Yes, see the thing with Kanye and l A. Yeah, that was just like a friendly That was like a friend. That is me making an example, like doing a comparison, you know what I mean. So I actually d M while and he didn't DM me back soon. So when I say so when I see him, so when I see him on the crack, some jokes on him about that because I love him. That's my brother. I love Kanye too. That's my brother too, you know
what I mean. And it's nothing personal. I didn't mean any disrespect by it, you know. You know what I'm saying. And it's it's like I think a lot of the media outlets they take certain lines and then they use them as like headlines to get clicks. And I just don't think that that that long of a song, but that kind of a song, that's that kind of a song.
I don't think that they should do that because it's like it kind of it's dismissive, you know what I mean, Like it kind of downplays everything that's being those parts of we're not important parts on the song at all, you know what I'm saying, Like, and that's all you pull from. That was just to try to create some type of controversy. If I want controversy, trust me, I don't need anybody's health, you know, Like if I'm gonna did somebody, I'm a battle rapper by nature, my crab.
I'm a practitioner, you know what I'm saying, Like if I want to battle somebody, if I want to pick up pick a fight with with a you know, with a guy like Wi A who's a top tier lyricist, Like if I want to pick a battle with him and I just come straight at him, you know what I'm saying, Like him and him and Cold had words back and forth on the record. That was super healthy, you know what I'm saying. So I know he with the business, you know what I'm saying. So if that's
what I wanted, that's what would have happened. But that wasn't That wasn't even what that was. Speaking of these bars, man, it's l a Leakers freestyle man, the hundred ones. He set the tone, so so break it down. Like the first verse of dal Shall then the rest was the stuff he came up with. Some of it I was writing in my studio, some of it I wrote on the plane. Yeah, it was just it was just I told myself last time I did Flex, I believe it was the prime two album. I did Flex, and then
Black said that that standard. Yeah yeah, and then and then I told myself that I was gonna do l A Leakers for Book of Ryan, and I couldn't do it. I didn't get a chance to do it because I went I started traveling with Marshall. So that was your first time doing Yeah, that was my first time doing l A Leakers And you know, like hy being Corday, the game, all of these guys, they set the bar really hot, you know. So I just told myself that I wanted to really King Los King Los Toe tagged it.
So I just told myself that I wanted to go in there and I was gonna wrap at least one time during this rollout schedule schedule being so hectic, I can't I don't have I can't memorize wraps that fast man, you know what I mean. So I just like I'm gonna give one good one slapping Michael Rap reporter the gas aboard. I was just kidding. I'm just kidding, but speaking of Corday, like Cordey got taken off the Hey young world. So right, So I don't know exactly what
you said. You said, Corda, You'll always be my little man. Of course, only atlantic destroy your standards, standings, standings, playing mechanic playing, playing mechanic horse. Yeah, what do you mean exactly what? You ever seen one of those? All right, you've seen hus you know. I feel like labels do that. Labels played, they played game shape shifting with one's career,
making decisions. I don't want him on that because I want him to be, you know, in this life or I want him to You're never You're never ever gonna be in bad standing standing next to me, I'm culture, you know what I'm saying. And that's why I always say that this can't be contrived in the boardroom. So what happens is when you start, when the executives make the decisions to do that. If if it's not somebody who's understanding is me, What if that person ends up
having an issue with is a baby? You know what I'm saying, Like, that's too much, too much pressure, you know what I mean. And he was getting a lot of respect from the ogs of course, of course. And I mean I I embraced them early, and I'm going to continue to embrace him. I'm not gonna let politics, you know, drive a wedge between me and him. You know what I'm saying. He's too important to the culture.
So I just felt like, you know, speaking about it a little bit, you know, with respect, you know what I mean. He's disappointed that he no no, no, no, no, he hit me a out it. He said, he said it was fire. He said it was fire, lying on on trick. We're talking about those label guys, like the record label people. We said, the record label guy. You can even label guys taking risks, then you can mess
the wreck someones getting tricked. Like, do you really feel like that they're all good some label people out there. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure, there's some good label guys out there. That's Keno cost that's some there's some good label guys out there. My my problem, my problem with it is that these guys, there's not a lot of them taking risks, and there's not a lot of them riding for the artists. Because you know, it's not really in the label's best interest to build somebody's brand.
They don't, that's that's not their concern, you know. So like that term thing, they can they can live off short term results because they're investing. They're just investing. So they're looking at it strictly profit for profit margin. That's what they're looking at. They're not looking at is this
the best record for you to build your brand? Is this the best record for me for the machine that I can put money behind and the maximum some Yeah, which you know, if you can, if you if you figure out a way to have a good marriage with a record label, it's a place. It's a place where they can participate and you can build your brand at the same time. We've seen it happen plenty of times. So one of the reasons why I feel that way is because, like, let's use jay Z again for an example.
I'm using all jay Z examples. Now, jay Z formed Rockefeller, They formed Rockefeller Records, Jay and damon them because jay Z couldn't get a record deal. He wanted a record deal. Now, I heard this behind the scenes from somebody. I can't remember where it came from, but somebody told him when he was taking meetings that he should rapped like the fus Nickins right now, shout out to the fush Nickers. That's a legendary that's a legendary group in hip hop.
But whoever this person is that told him that, Now, let's just think about that. You cannot be more wrong, right, that's the most wrong you could be, right, But that person didn't have to be held accountable. Now, us as artists, if we're ever that wrong, we're out of here. That's
career suicide. We cannot afford to be that wrong. So if everything falls on us, you would think we would make decisions for ourselves and not involve them so much in the decision making process as it pertains to building our brands, and that's in the music is just as important. I thought it was really interesting Upside Down, which is one of my favorite records, that interlude that you you included when you talked about how the music has to
be really good otherwise it's like of nothing. Everyone wanted to own their masters. But in this thing and age, isn't that important to empower people about wanting to own their masters? And yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think that's what it was doing. You know, I think it was just putting a little perspective on it. It's like telling somebody save your money, you know. I mean that that's cool, that's cool advice. That's cool advice. But you know,
like you're basically telling me to put it somewhere. You know, put your money over there, you know what I mean. You tell I can put it on the roof. It don't matter, you know, Like if I don't have any perspective, if I don't have any financial literacy, I'm gonna need that money at some point. You yeah. So I mean, um, I'm telling people to put the effort into the art and then on your masters, and always own your masters.
In that way, it can be self serving to you for long periods of time, and that's what you're here to do. You're not here to get famous. Fame is a byproduct of what you're doing, you know what I'm saying. So that has to be the number one thing in your mind, you know what I'm saying. So I'm not telling people not to own your masters. I'm telling people, by all means, own your masters, but don't just own
them just to say you own them. You're making a bunch of bullshit music that that could beat no disrespect, But that could be better if you put a little bit more energy into the actual art. You don't want a catalog of a hundred songs that all sound the same. That's not right. That's fairy dust y'all like fir but even Donna overcome. You talk about like you don't rhyme for the likes, you're the ones the jealous target, Like
do you feel like you're to target? Um? No, I just like rhyming syllables, and I knew I needed something for seller's market. So there you go. At least I'm being honest. You're all underground for life. Oh yeah, that's for sure. And that's that's when I say that, I mean my mentality. You know, I'll always approached the art form like an MC. Yeah you know what I mean. And I think, um, that needs to be said sometimes because there's a lot of guys who approach it just
like me, Like Black Thought. I always use Black Thought as an example as well, because you know him from many things. But the thing that stands out to you first and the first thing to hit your when you think Black Thought, it's how well he could wrap. If you heard of Black Thought being involved in any kind of antics, you wouldn't even believe it. You'd be like, what, No, you must got somebody, You must have got somebody else.
You must be thinking about somebody else. And if also, if you hear about Black Thought making some reach record to Garner some type of like new Fans or some stupid ship, you also would be like, no, that ain't. Black just still feels underground. Even though he's on the Tonight Show. Everything he's he's a big deal, and he will exist forever. There's never gonna be a time where he can't wrap. There's never gonna be a time where he's not dressed amazing, There's never gonna be a time
where he's trying to act young. He's just being himself. And I feel like that's what art is about. It's it's it's about living in the center of your truth, being comfortable in your skin, and just expressing that. And you can express that as long as you want, as long as you're inspired. If you become uninspired and you just move on to something else that inspires you, but the platform affords you totunity, didn't do anything. You also
give props a newer generation. You got Cardi and Megan you mentioned on Overcome, but I saw a tweet that you said, uh, you also mentioned Cash don can't forget about her. But you also like Tierra Whack. Yes, like your pro female rapper. Of course, I mean they all queens. They are queens, and these are these are the most queens that we've had running. And you know, at the same time, you know what I'm saying, that's an amazing thing.
You got Rahpsody doing what she's doing now, the level that Rahapsody dude does it on, you would think that she would be um hired to feel some type of void or something. There's no void, no void. They got it all covered. The still getting she still has some lane and still getting the respect you can put you can getting lost in it. You could send all of them on tour together right now. I go see it all right, you know what I'm saying, And it's distinctive differences,
and we think, I think that's an amazing thing. And I think, um, when we see things, when we see that, like this is the first time we've seen that, so it should be celebrated more. What was the important besides is it just Detroit to give cash dollar extra booster. Really well, first of all, she's she's amazing. That's first of all. She's an amazing artist. She's beautiful, she black, she's dark skinned, and she's from Detroit. What was it like?
What was it like producing for your good friend Marshall mathers On to be murdered by I just got lucky man, I just got darkness. She got the single man, he got the darkness with the video Las Vegas Shooter. Come on, I just I just um, I pulled that m Simon and Garfuncle sample and uh, this is before I was really working on the album, like really knew I was working on it, and when I did it, I knew that sonically it didn't match anything I was doing. So I just sent it to him and seeing if he
would like it. And he called me the next day and said I wrote to it. Yeah, he wrote it at his house. And I just looked up, like, what did you think of the classic eminem controversial content that I thought it was great? I feel like Marsha was greatness, you know what I'm saying. I feel like he's greatness. I feel like, um, he's uh, he's under high scrutiny right now, which is to be expected at this juncture in his career. Right, Um, many would look at it
like a bad thing, but it's a great thing. And that's why he's knocking these albums out of this It's a great thing. A little artistic fire, a little bit. Well, I know it did that. I know it did that, But I feel like, um, I feel like we're watching like Floyd. You know, when we when Floyd towards the end of his career, when you start seeing them make adjustments, you know what I mean, Like you start seeing them make adjustments in the championship round, like when he got
hit by Shane with that big shot. You got hit with two big shots, and you just start making the mediate adjustments, and I think, I ain't That's exactly what we're saying with Marshall. It's like he did something that didn't connect. People didn't like it, they let them know they didn't like it. And now he's just making adjustments and every every single thing that he's doing, it gets better and better and it gets closer to the target that people are looking for each time that he does something.
I think that's an incredible thing to be able to accomplish number one at his age and number two, um this juncture, the level he's at and everything that he's accomplished in the way that he's living his life, you know what I mean, completely sober um successfully, you know, putting children through college, you know what I mean, like being a being a responsible dad and still finding a way to be slim shady, you know what I mean, like people to people take for granted how tough that is,
because number one, they will never be in that position. And then number two, you know, like he makes it look a little easy. Yeah, you know, so it's easy to criticize. It's easy to sit off to the side and be like, oh man, if if that was me doing that, I would do this. But it's not you doing that, you know what I mean. And like, I love to see some of these artists in that in that situation because a lot of times it would be like one dimensional two dimensional artists like my brother you
ain't you only did one of two things. He may have had a line or two where we went woo, and that's you know what I mean. You're talking about somebody who fucking stopped the world three times over. Yeah, you know, I mean, it gives somewhere like the awso thing we just lost is just the level of his dedication to the craft that's to be the key to his success, and the fact that he still cares. He doesn't have to care. I have to care, man. You know, he could have took his ball and went home a
long time ago, you know what I mean. And it's just like that just shows dedication to the craft, you know, and me as a as a craftsman somebody whom fellow practitioner, Yeah, fellow practitioner. You know, I appreciate that. I appreciate that from a technical standpoint, you know. You know, rather you like the way he's approaching to be to not at least he's approaching it in a way where he's trying to win you over. You know, your dad has always been amusing most of your music. Um, I know what's
on M's album. Uh. You said you're not trying to adopt his old philosophies, Like, what are some of those old philosophies that your dad for you? The way that my dad reprimands you know what I'm saying. I'll give you an example. Um, the first time, um, that I had testosterone really running through me in a way, in a way that made me feel like, you know, I probably could take this guy getting a little getting a
little stronger. You know, I had been in I've been fighting since I was five years old, you know what I mean. So I'm like, man, I probably could. I probably could. Really, So he said somebody didn't like and I remember kind of sticking my chest out and I remember saying something. I can't remember exactly what it is, what it was, because before I could get the whole sentence out of my mouth, I was laying in the bathtub. He had put me through. He put me through a
shower door. My father is like he was a smaller guy at that time. He's a little bigger now, but he, my father has this like freakish strength strength. Yeah, it's like a it's like a brute force. He grabs you and it feels like a tornado is like shaking you. You know what I mean. But he put me through, put me through. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you him doing that probably saved my life because what it did was it taught me respect. And it's the reason
why I don't number one take people for granted. And I don't disrespect people because you just never know. And I don't like I don't like getting punched in the face, but I don't like, you know what I mean, Like, I don't like getting hurt, So I don't treat people in a way where I'm trying to test to see what they can do, you know what I mean. So, long story short, I'm looking up at my dad and he's standing over me, and I just remember saying I'm sorry.
He was like, yeah, that's what the funk I thought you was gonna say? What else philosophies did he give? Did give you? He said, on no circumstance to the man be considered the legend, have nothing left on his dead bad Yeah, that's basically saying, Um, what's the what's the use of having all of the accolades, you know, like um, guys like Sugaray Robinson, um, Joe Louis. I think we were having a conversation about those guys. We
were talking about fighters. Um, the way fighters used to get into bad contracts back in the day, and a lot of recording artists, singers used to get into bad contracts and you know, they die legends, you know what I mean, Like yeah, people highly regarded by the entire world, you know what I mean, Like classic, this classic that records that we're gonna hear forever for life. There's no way, there's no way that any of these people should be
on their deathbed with nothing any financial trouble. And I feel the generated so much. I feel the same way about our legends and hip hop, you know, Like I don't like seeing any of those guys looking like they're old and on drugs and bitter, and they got done wrong because hip hop hadn't quite progressed enough to where guys were making that kind of money. I feel like there should be some type of fund put aside for them,
you know. And I feel like we all can afford it if I if I'll put some, I'll take some of mine and put it aside. It can be like a tax. Like there's certain people who we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them, you know. And it's
it's certain there's certain people that the game choot. I'm not gonna say any names because I don't know what their true situations are, but it's it's pretty obvious, you know, like that the game chewed them up and spit them out, and I just don't think that should be a thing. I think we should take care of them. I think the games should take care of them. I saw a tweet that you had a couple of years ago. You said your goal is to help someone else in this
music business, Like that's your life passion. After I guess everything is said and done, do you still feel like you want to do that? Yeah? Definitely. I mean, my my goal in life has just helped people in general, you know, in any in any walk of life, like, um, just be a conduit to two good things, you know
what I mean. I feel like a long there was a long period of time where I used my platform to kind of spew negativity into the universe, and it put a stigma on me in many ways, you know, like if I hadn't carried myself like that lines like the walle A line, whenn't it got taken like that, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, um, now I gotta kind of be careful, I gotta kind of walk eggshells around my own creative prowess, you know what I'm saying. So, UM, I just I just feel like
it needs to be balanced out now. You know, I feel like, uh, based off of things that I've been through in my life, I'm really not supposed to be here. I don't want to sound cliche in any way, but man, like the things that I survived, I just don't feel like I'm supposed to be here. So, you know, like when you go through things like that in life, you have to understand and find whatever your purpose is here.
I understand what my purpose is. It's too share some of the information that I've acquired from making countless mistakes. There is not a mistake that any of these young guys made before or are gonna make that I haven't made, you know what I mean. So if you have any questions, I'm your guy. To call my phone and we can sit on there. We can sit on the phone for five hours at five am in the morning, and I'll
tell you everything that you need to know. I'll indoctrinate you with information because I love That's what I love to do. And the last thing about your dad, I know, last time we had a conversation here he talked about want to retire him and talked about it again on the Hero like he starts the post office is back what's going on. M We're getting there. We're getting there. See the thing with me, man is I got like, I got a whole plethora of things that I need
to do financially. Like the last thing when I put out the Book of Ryan, I bought my father a car. I bought him a Zeo six. My next step is I'm gonna get him out of the post office. But you know he's working, He's working less hours. Um the job is not super strenuous. Um, I got my ducks in a row. I got a lot of things that I'm doing. I'm taking a lot of steps and I'm basically loading up. I'm loading up. Once I started shooting, everybody's gonna retire. It was cocaine based off true story
with your dad. Yeah wow, Yeah, I'm a little mad that you didn't push that as a single earlier. But that was that cocaine. Yeah, get that real like single puss. I was trying to lean on you with that. Yeah, we shot that. We shot that one a little bit later. UM Me being in the studio a lot had a lot to do with that because um Keno Keno was trying to get me out the CALLI to shoot that for a minute, and I kept pushing it back because, um, I don't like to stop what I'm doing. If I'm
like right in the middle of something. It makes me a little mad when I'm right in the middle with something, and um, I gotta stop, get on the plane, because once I come back and I pull it back up, I feel like now I'm starting all over again. I'm not very good at continuing where I left off when it comes to the creator. You said you at it's a maniac of the studio or something like a Madman studio, I could be. What makes you mad? What is it about the situation? I pushed myself in a lot of
different ways. See, there's a lot of little nuances to my style. You know, I studied myself so you know you got drunk Royce from back in the day, which
is just bars I'm better than you. Yeah, Like I could go back and listen to some of those raps, and um there's certain things in my delivery, the recklessness of it that, Um, I thought that I couldn't achieve that sound again because I'm sober now now I'm finding that if I stay up long enough, my voice becomes a little bit horsed on no sleep and yeah, my my, I could my words slur slightly like can't I can't, Yeah I can't. I can't. I can't come close to it.
But it only comes and being willing to push myself. So you know, I'm not gonna push myself to the point of exhaustion, you know, like I listened to my body. If I feel like it's time to go to sleep, I go to sleep. But I don't just go to sleep just because it's eleven o'clock. You know what I'm saying. I don't do that to myself. I don't look at the clock. I don't set rules for myself. I don't have windows in my studio. I don't make creative decisions
based off where the sun is at. Then you know, I just go in there and I just um, I just go. I just go until it's time to sleep or until it's time to move on to the next thing. And that's what makes me madman. And in between all of that, a lot of the young guys come through and I preach to them all day. Sometimes I end up yelling that tough love. Yeah you gotta, I mean, you know, because I don't I won't let I won't let them take their confidence down. I keep their confidence up.
I keep them arale up at all times because you know, all success starts here. It starts here. As long as you can think it, you can see it, you can actualize, you can visualize it, you can actualize it. That's how I feel, you know. So like the labels um the powers that be, with all of the marketing dollars, they're actually marketing fame to you, you know, and they're marketing a certain kind of fame, which is a drug, you know. And they're also marketing too you the importance of numbers,
which numbers has. Numbers do have their place in the in the category of importance, they do, but they're not
the end all be all. So so the idea of uploading a video to YouTube, or uploading a video or a song to wherever online favorite dsp Yeah, and then and then going back two hours later and looking at the views or looking at you know, like being the screen and then putting into your mind, that's a failure because it doesn't it doesn't add up to Little Headache Medicine who just signed up Little Headache Medicine, who just signed a deal for ten million dollars because his take
out video had fifty gazillion views unless it ain't true, you know what I mean. So you know, but that doesn't make his song better than your songs. It's like it's it's it's it's subjective, it's I don't only believe a lot of that ship. I really don't really don't. Next next person I see saying they signed a ten million dollar day, I want to I want to see. I want to see that contract. I want to see what. I want to see what you gave up for that
ten million dollars. You had to give them your children in order for them to feel like they can make that ten million dollars back. The ship just don't make sense to me. But you know I'm a hip hop music industry conspiracy theories SOK was a ten million dollars song. I think I still stand by. I think it's the best song you made. Thank you, Thank you, And I think you need to put out R and B, R and B like EP or something like that. That's never
gonna happen, but thank you, thank you. Hey, would you have said you were gonna produce your by yourself? Of you? If there ever was a project where I'm only doing melodies. I would never ever market it as the project where I'm only doing melody. See, that's what makes it bad. So as you call it the R and B album, that's no good. That's no good. I think have like good melodies when you guys do it. So there's a lot of us like that though. There's a lot of
us like that, you know. And I think that's another one of the reasons why hip hop is so important. It's so important to keep it hip hop, to keep it hip hop, and do as many things as you like to do, but nothing just to you know, oh man, I gotta go pop. I think that's the worst thing you can tell a new artist, a hip hop artist, is, you know, like they tell you that that urban radio, rhythmic radio, all of that is the Chitlin circuit, and
you know, like pop radio. Now you made it, and it's just like bro, who the fox said that, like who? I don't understand that. It's a lot you had to the Flexibrey start. You said, my show starts at twelve and it's sold out by levin rappers blow up and theybut the album Ellen Ellen. I thought that was pretty clever seems like that's the yeah, because that's what they equate that to success, and I mean it's success. Success is that's subjective, is very subjective, you know what I mean. Like, Okay,
you're on a bigger platform. Okay, who are you speaking to? Are you speaking to people that are into your music? Why in the world would you ever think that you're only more successful because white people like you more. White people didn't create hip hop, no disrespect, white people didn't create hip hop. This is like, um, this is a thing that for all intensive purposes, the world didn't think we would last. We were that voice that they didn't
want us to have. And then once you know, the powers that be seen that it was something that could generate billions of billions of dollars, you know, like they took it over, took it over and you know, regulated it in every way, you know what I mean. So, now do you ever feel conflicted though, like become so
dominant pop culture. You look at the kid like Roddy Richards talented young song called the Box and that's like the number one song in America is undisputed, right, But do you feel like, you know, it's one way, it's a victory for hip hop. At the same time, it just speaks to like we're still fitting in these boxes for the validation at certain point. Right. I don't know if Roddy Richards the best example for that though, because his album is hip hop. It just sounds really, really current.
But it doesn't sound like he's trying to make music for white people. That's what I'm saying. That's that's all I'm saying. With the pop crowd. Yeah, it doesn't sound and that doesn't sound like he went in the studio and said, I'm gonna make an I Heart Media album. You know what I'm saying. I just went in, he went in. Yeah, he's being He's being him, and I'm saying, there's nothing wrong with your music crossing over to pop. The Miseducation Lauren here, it's a big gass pop album.
But man, she she she defied every law around that time that they said you couldn't preach, they said that you couldn't have long verses. Come on, man, she did what she wanted to do on that albums on the album to whatever she wanted to do. It was a continuation of a lot of the things that the foojis were doing, she was on this spitting, she was in there in different pockets, and people love it. White people love Black people love it. Everybody loves it because it's
beautiful music. You always say your career of validation comes from a song like Lighters, what you wrote with the attention of trying to make that big record, but then Boom is still your bigger record. Yeah, well that's subjective, you know, like some some people may look at it like Lighters is obviously bigger. You know, it just depends on are you looking at the longevity, are you looking at which song lasts longer, or are you looking at
which song gets you the biggest bag up front? You know, it just it just all it depends on how you decide that you want to look at it. But that goes back to the perspective that I've been talking about. I'm intrigued by that. I'm intrigued at the fact that, um, the whole world thinks that these records are hit records when they disappear. It's not a hit record if it disappears.
Speaking of perspective, I wanted to ask you not to go another angle of a jay Z question with Black Savages, with the NFL thing that he was doing at the time, when he was getting a lot of criticism, you supported you put that song out, of course, and not only were not only when the press is hammering him you want to press run and support of the song. Why why why did you decide to do that and put out Black Savages. I feel like that we need to, uh,
we need to think more like a collective. You know. Um, A lot of a lot of the critiquing, criticizing that we do. Some of it we need to keep to ourselves, especially as artists. As artists, we need to think more like a collective. If you see somebody taking steps, even though they are baby steps, we need to lock arms on that, you know what I mean, because you have to look at it. Man. You've got great, great guys,
great men like Colin Kaepernick. Know you know, in a lot of the guys in the NFL, some of them were for the calls. Some of them were for the calls but didn't want to risk anything. They were more PC than anything. If you know that it's like split up like that, and um, you see that that Hove is taking those steps, you got to support it in order for us to move forward. Because that division is
what they monetize, that's what they prey on. And we were divided in a lot of different instances, you know, when Um, when CAP, when CAP had the tryout, and how divided we are. You know, you've got stephen A saying one thing, you got, tearo On saying another thing you got as long as they see that division. The NFL didn't even feel like that they needed to even make a statement. They said nothing, They said nothing. Depundits
did it for them. But they're all black, you know what I mean, And and like that, we don't get anywhere like that because we have to remember the goal at hand. It's no different from you know, like you look at like the Revote something or something like that. You got all of these genius black people showing you how genius they are, but disagreeing, disagreeing on how we're gonna fix us when nobody's right, nobody's wrong. Okay, Okay, Candice owns you feel like, you know, jail reform is
the biggest issue. Okay, Well somebody else feels like racism is the biggest issue. They're both issues. Nonetheless, you know what I mean. We gotta figure out a way to come together on these issues and stop making it like my plight is different from your plight and come together and demand things. L G B t Q. They did it. They did it correct. They came together as a collective. They flew their flag and they said, we want this, we want that, we want this. Y'all better stop saying this.
Y'all better stop saying that. And that's it. Like a point system. Yeah, you better watch your ass now. And it's just the truth, you know what I mean. And that's that's they're showing you the strength and to collect and I respect it, man, I respected it. Actually, the way that they came together, it changed my perspective on how I look at that, you know what I mean, Like it changed my perspective. It made it to where
I want to be careful what I say. I don't want to say things that people would take as offensive. And there were certain things I was saying in my music that I didn't even know people would take offense to in that way, you know, because I came up, I came up under Marshall, you know what I mean. Where hip hop was just like a platform that just you know, just be crazy and have fun, you know, what I mean, But certain things, I don't want to
have fun at the expense of other people. If I feel like I'm hurting somebody and my intention is not to hurt you with my lyrics, and I don't want to hurt you. Yeah, it was interesting, you know that lyric. When you talk about Clarence avan Avant, we feel like he should be more board rooms and you know, like the people in these labels are more of Morris Leevy.
Can you explain the science behind that lyric? Yeah, Clarence Avant, Um, you know, he just used to go in there and he used to help black artists get better deals and see to it that they don't get cheated, you know, and see to it that they're not underpaid, and um, they're getting their worth. Um. We don't have a lot of people like that these days, you know. And um, that kind of tradition needs to carry on. That should turn into a cycle that repeats, because the Morris Leavey cycle,
the cycle of artists being underappreciated, um racially profiled. But who is Morstly For people that don't know, Morris Leavy is an executive from back in the day. I can't even remember the years. What is that? Like the seventies, and he just adopted a lot of ideologies that went against the plight of the musician, especially the black musician, you know. Um, and he had certain ways that he dealt with artists, you know, like, Um, I'm not gonna
give him what he's worth. I'm gonna make him feel like everything that he does I should I should be going. You're welcome. Anything that you do is great. I make you feel like, oh, you're welcome. I make you feel like it's it's my pleasure for you to be here. You're lucky to be here. You're lucky to be here. You can't do it on your own. You need me, you know what I mean. Like I'm the machine, I'm the guy. Really, it's the other way round. And there's a lot of guys now in positions of power who
don't have any talent. They don't have any talent, they don't know ship. They're just in a position of power, and they're kind of like dragging their nuts through the culture,
you know. And then you know, um, you know, the young black artists are just so afraid to lose you know, this fucking imaginary spot that they're you know, this imagining that they're bangling over their head, and um, they're keeping us divided in so many ways, and they're marketing you know, us bickering with each other while they're coming together behind closed doors and creating all of these standards. That's to our detriment, you know. So I mean, you know, like
and it's it's nothing personal. It's just the way that they operate. It's the way that they teach their children to oper right. You know, Like I got a son. It's like I got a son who's who's getting into the music business. Kids try to sign him already, just some crazy crazy they're getting. They're getting like they're getting prepped by people in the business, you know what I mean. So it's like that's nothing personal. This is just them
prepping their people, them putting their people in position. I admire that put your people in position, but don't act uncomfortable when we're putting our people in position. Don't make me feel like I'm doing something wrong and I need to be so pc and I need to watch what I say or else you're gonna like blackball me or something. That black blackball word is the most ridiculous words in a long time. You could never blackball me. That's impossible,
can not blackball me. You're not gonna fire me, You're not gonna remove me. You're not gonna tell me what I can and can't say. You're not gonna make me feel like you're canna do that self conscious ship with somebody else. You can't run that ship, run that ship
on one of them, you know. Then one of us all shout out the end and iced T and ice Cube talking about, you know, the fights they had to express themselves on on the platform, which is now there are not where and you can express yourself on your platform. People that don't know what the significance of messaging those two in particular distinctly, I think of like iced T, ice Cube, and I always think of Uncle Luke Um. I remember seeing him on Donahue and he was just
standing up to everybody. He was standing up to everybody, and um iced Tea made a song called cop Killer that was about killing a cop because he was tired of cops killing our kids. It was just a song. But they tried to get rid of that song. They tried to censor him and completely get rid of the song. And he fought and he had, you know, threats on
his life. He had police cars waiting on the corner, you know what I mean, Like he put his well being in jeopardy because he had something to say, not because he wanted to be on the radio, not because he wanted to be aims, because he wasn't going to allow them to block his First Amendment right, And he did that. What he did was he was planting a tree so we can enjoy the shade. Now here we are under the shade with platforms, and now we can say anything we want to say. We we aren't censored
in any way. Maybe here and there, maybe just small things, you know what I mean, racial slur or some ship like that. But for the most parts, for all intensive purposes, we can say anything we want to say. The stick of the tip of gores and all that, taking records out of the stores. Loris Tucker was stumping on POxy D, Calvin Bucks, you know what I mean. So you know, like now we got platforms to say anything we want to say, and not many of us have anything to say.
And I think that that's again, not many of us have much to say, And I think that's a um direct not shot, but it's a miss, it's a mishandle of the people who put their ship on the line beforehand. So that's why when you see younger artists and you see some of the older artists telling them to educate themselves and just know your history. These are the things
you need to know about. You don't need to be able to recite these guys lyrics word for word, but you have to have an understanding of what they put on the line and how how how many sacrifices they made so you can do great things. You didn't start this. You know, there was a door that standing open that you walked through. You didn't open that door. You didn't you didn't have to fight. You have to fight anybody. You didn't do ship now before you came in. Like
it's so crazy. How like you can go to a coffee shop and you just hear nineties hip hop in the backdrop, Like it's just it's the sister soundtrack. Remember we're coming in the era of like the fight. We had to like just you know, magnify the message in the culture and to be for it to be respected. And now because some people it's just background music, you know what I mean? Yeah, My brother was at the My brother was at the at Cobo at the show when um when n w A got arrested and Troit,
Yeah he was at that show. So you know, it's it's it's like that whole time is just in my just remember it being talked about firsthand, you know what I mean. And then in Detroit. It was in Detroit and they were told not to do the police. Don't do the police. That's all they had to do is not do that song. They had to do is not
do that song. Believe you me artists today, but it just not did this absolutely the been like all that ship man do that after party after I'm just here, you know, I'm just here to these holes, you know what I'm saying. Like there's a there's a greater purpose that you have when you have a platform. You know, rather you want to be a role model or not, it's not really your choice. You know. Once you have a platform, you're a speaker of the people, rather you
like it or not. But with all this wealth of knowledge, Roice, I know you would never sign to would you ever work at a label as an executive or something like that? I would consider it, but I would also sign to a label. I really well, yeah, I would do a joint venture. You know, I got my own company. Deals now, I mean flexible. Listen, man, you can put anything on paper. You can put anything on paper, you know what I mean.
We can we can put a contract together right now that says you gotta give me that shirt every Wednesday. And it would totally be you know what I'm saying, binding, legally binding. So that gold ring does look good? Man, you can have the man you are to go. How do we go from the rocks don't do right to the gold ring? We all got to go from the rystone.
That's called evolution. That's what we gotta do. I mean, that's that's that's one of the things that that this this this culture that we call hip hop, that's what it affords us. We got to deal with Joe Button being the media. To Jesus, it's too much. But it's a it's a it's a it's too much. It's a success story. This for the time, you know what I mean. We're supposed to all be proud, you know what I mean,
Like you're supposed to be celebrating Royce. I'm throwing the Joe Button party soon as I leave here and when we get out ever, so we're gonn getty more ball exams that that may happen. That's possible. You know, that's my first love. That's my first love. Just you know, just just really just spitting, you know what I mean, Like,
that's my first love. It's just got to be when I'm in that mood, you know, and I never know, you know, where the mood is gonna where the universe is gonna push me, take me next, you know what I mean. So yeah, hopefully okay, but meantimes all about allegory, yes, sir, So congratulations and that's honor and the privilege to be here. Man, thank you so much for having man appreciate your brother. That's where to start the new season. Love and respect wrap Rate Up Podcast