Rap Radar Rewind: Kareem Biggs Burke

We can't rest on our loans because I'm a little sleepy. You've been traveling. I'm fresh from DC, man, but I always come in because I want to make more history, Man, more podcast history, of course, Man, because we believe in greatness. Beat out. You know about greatness? Of course? What do you think of when you hear worth Greatness? Think about

the rap Radar podcast. You don't think about Delta Airlines and the God in Greatness camp of course, Man, Jesus christ Man, talk to me about season is pond this Man? You gotta check out these video series. They have the Delta Airlines and CBS Local Present Guiding Greatness you know the collegiate series is there. They basically get with the top coaches to discuss leadership on and off the court. Latest ones that got with you Man from Wisconsin coach

Guard and then from Penn State. You know Penn States of football school. You always take a football Penn you think more about football than anything. But Patrick Chambers put a chase to that. Yeah, damn sure did. He's making it happen. And can't forget Georgia Bulldogs coach Mark Fox. He actually gave his opinion about some advice he got from Bill Parselves to great Bill Parselves on how to lead the team. Can't go You know what his message was done, give your play as a chance to win.

Sounds like us at CBS come up with a plan. They give us a chance to win it. Give us these mics and the studio. Man, we try to make things happen. Man, make sure you check out the Delta Airlines CBS Local Guide in Greatness series. That's the place to be Man exclusive video series presented by Delta Airlines Officer insight for some of the most successful n C Double A college basketball coaches. So you just go to

the website. Man got in greatness dot com and coach k is up there too, right yeah, crazy as coach. A little trouple right now. Guy who won't speak of that though, but he is a great leader man, So get some tips about leadership man and go to gud in greatness dot com. Ye speaking of greatness man, Yo, Nori, Man, this guy, this guy man before we get the flat with zombies also was incredible, but noriego, we gotta get

this guy props again. Yeah, a little maker because last time he was a little tight because he walked in the studio and he already had trash the studio with his own podcast. We get him a little bit of props. But Yo, his episode still top ten, people still talking about still talking about it. It went viral, was on TMZE. It forced Michael Jordan's camp to come up with some response. Jordan's respond, but then nor came back with the pictures like you were there. He was there, baby, He did

his research and no you don't know again Nor. He says he's the best interview in hip hop, and we've had a lot of great interviews. Man esco Leo, Cohen, l a Re, Swizz beats, you name it, but didn't Nori take the belt. I think he did. That's what we got on ESPN. I got cut from Varsity. That that's crazy. Yeo, Man shout the Nori and his Drink Champs podcast taking off. Man, he cracked. He cracked the top five over podcast right out the gate. What are

you nodding? That course? And I don't like that, man, But I'm too happy. Man, that's my label. Man, I'm happy for him a little bit. I texted him, actually like you number five. He's like, what does that mean? We're just doing good, you know. He says wonderful things about us. We have a great relationship. Man. It's gonna get a little competitive, but it's a label made. It's all a good suit to that guy. Man. Also, don't sleep on that flat with Zombies interview we did, Man,

that was I said, you enjoyed talking to him. I saw you tweet that out. Yeah, because I had a misconception about them going into it. I was really excited about you know, because after listening to the music and getting to know them a little bit, I felt like we could have had another two hour episode. So I

was really excited and I liked them. I think I think that car fans appreciate it to man, Yeah, when I like the juxtaposition of like, you know, obviously no he's the o G. But you know again, these flab a zombie dudes like tremendous independent success. I don't think they're getting to just due. Like the album is good, it's selling, it's moving units. I think there was on tour right now, turing it down. They're the kind of act that's blurring the lines between the mainstream and the underground.

You know, still kind of blurry, but they definitely have a place in the game. You gotta respect that, whether they like the music or not. I think I place in the game might be on top. Man this podcast doing numbers. Man, make sure you go to iTunes, man subscribe, rate and review the rap. Rate our podcast. I think we got someone new. Comments that have to look at him, you know, no, he shook some things up. What they're saying,

what they saying saying. People tweet all the times like ken't we really read my comment on the podcast, Like yeah, we got Equal Opportunity podcast. Okay, this is mental stimulant. Okay, there you go. Five stars. This podcast hits that perfect spot between Polish journalistic journalistic professionalism and real world music fan tone. It's my favorite fine in the last six month. It's easily I would love for you guys, And if

you kill him Mike. Mike comes up a lot. Not only is he a top seven rapper, Top seven, the top seven now man killing my eight on my list Top seven. I guess it's here. He's exciety, so we won't take too long. Actually, if Mr Vascots can, you have to get iententate our guests and bring him in exactly five minutes, yeah, no, seven minutes, No, five minutes, five minutes, yeah, yeah, five minutes bring him in because we do it live. Uh. Top seven rapper, but he

speaks to intelligence and seven year. It's immediately credible. Probably have a two series podcast from all the sound you grab, keep it up. You are appreciate it, so you want to kill him Mike. Okay, soone's his great pot interesting selection to guess A lot of now is required from listening. Another person says the show is dope, great artists, great inside into what the artists are keeping artists are doing,

so keep it going. Somebody said, yo on God, the Nori FPP could have been two hours longer, great way to easy to drink Champs and the MJ story is pure gold. That's a documentary. Keep the ogs coming. We got coming on the show. Kareem biggs Burke, who they said it would never happen, biggest in the building. He's already yet this is his third interview ever. I'm so scared, man, this might be twenty seven minutes. I said thirty minutes long, seven three hours. It's a man A few words. Man,

he's you know, co founder Rockefeller Records, storied label. But you know they said a dynasty and they actually built a dynasty. Man, these fucking guys, man, Sean jay Z caught a name in Dash biggs Burg Kareem Biggsburg. Man. We had a secret meeting with him early to talk about some things. Many thing he wants to talk about his launch of his clothing line of fourth of November.

But you know, hopefully we could ask him some mold stuff, man, some classic Rockefeller stories, man, some clarity on some things. Could we get some moment of clarity. There's gonna be a lot of that. Hopefully we can teue to chilenge ourselves. Man. You know what I'm saying, Guessing man, also want to shout learn Vest. You know about learn Vest. Yes, I do, online financial advice company focused on empowering people nationwide to

make smart decisions with their money. That's important, man. They help you customizers our financial plan and they're gonna help you with your retirement. And you know they tell you how much you should allocate your money to your savings and whatnot. Yeah, they say aggressively, how do you pay aggrestively? Pay off them student loans? You have student loans? Right? Be do no? Why do not? You don't pay them? All? There?

You a good job, young man. Ar checks and they talk about how much to put us out of your retirement fund. That's more in my lane right, my retirement now. But they'll create a custom financial plan. Plus they pay you a financial planner to help keep you one track. Well, no, lord knows, I need that absolutely to see a sample plan and get fifty dollars credit. That's nice. Off top, go to learn vest dot com. You know what that code is backslash radar. That's right, learn vest dot com

slash radar. Yep, all right, man, So a man vastballs and shooting this episode, Yes, coming right back now, we'll do that one. Later on, I guess is here. I can't believe you feel I can't alums o. Man, it's Man Hipps older brother right. We rap back with Digs Figs Rap Rate of Podcast. Welcome to Play a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities, talking business, sports, tech, entertainment,

and more. Play it at play dot in Hey, Yes, Hey, Sully Wilson from Rap Right Off and me and my partner beat our miller Man with the only opinion that matters Man here Rap right Off. He said Bags. He said, Wow, you weren't lying. He found your previous interview to bags. It wasn't me, man, I'm jealous, man, it was Shahim. It was Shahim. When Shahima right under a fake name? What was the name be dot Kawan want remember shot

shot was MTV. He just came to my office something that exactly, because I remember he was righting he was. I mean not to blow him up me. He's not there anymore. But MTV was mad because he would do all this freelance hip hop ship so that he came up with with a suiting them. Yeah he's happy with a buster. Yes, sir, Pigs is Diesel too, for the kids that don't know at home mans oh Man for November, say, if you started off on a great foot man, look at these look at these ads, baby, there you go.

Appreciate you too, some things that everybody gets. Biggs. I remember hearing the hard stories about how like you know, at the beginning, like what more so you here had in necessity? Like you guys obviously you damon j were liked ahead with things like fashion right, and we went to meet companies like Iceberg and they weren't treating the culture with the proper respect. So did a lot of these clothing aspirations just really come from that adversity? Like

how did that start? You know? Hall Hallo. Guy always wanted to be fresh, you know what I'm saying, always staying fresh. But it was funny because actually I started wearing Iceberg, I think in ninety four, so you know what I mean. Jay and Dame and a couple other guys got on it probably about ninety five, and we went to the first Tyson fight when he just came home. He just came home from jail to fight McNeely. And that's actually where the song can I Live came from?

You know, when he said that the Tyson fight the same night, same fight, and uh, and that's where Emery actually got his name, Vegas during that Vega Veggas Jones during that same trip says that line, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm saying he talked about can I live? Um uh you know at the tables. Uh, I forgot the line, you know, I'm talking about Vegas Jones. But that's where, you know, the line started getting a lot of notoriety

at that time. And then Jay Will put in the songs after that, and then what wasn't when you met you just felt this was was it? Really? You felt real disrespect from the Iceberg type people that didn't because we went there to try to get some product to putt in the video and they turned us down. So they was like, now we're not giving you anything. And then that kind of led, you know, for us to

try to do rocketwear on our own. And then I remember here about you used to have some machines and he kind of didn't even know what, you know, giving out T shirts one arm longer than the other. It was crazy in the office back then, Man, it was crazy. How did you get it to how did you start to feel like you guys got to figure out how to do it, like how to really close. Well that's when they partnered with the Russians with alex and Norton, and they had woolwear and a couple of other lines

going on. So, um, Danny Schlessinger was the head of sales there at the time, and um, a girl named Shanny I think, was doing merchandise. And so when they got with a company that had a little more no how and then we was able to give him the direction of what we wanted to close to look like, it made a lot more sense because you had division. Yeah, exactly, so we know what the kids were wearing because we were, you know, we were you know, at that time, the consumer.

And then it took off so fast though, because when you shot by that like that was such a huge success. Off the gate definitely was shocked by that, you know, we know. But way before this is probably when Dame first talked to me about doing Rockefeller Records. You know, we talked about clothes, uh, liquor, uh, you know, the music and actually the only thing we probably didn't do

was the amusement park. We talked about that too. I ain't had a lot of Yeah, Dame had a lot of ideas at that time, so everything that we were doing, it was actually something that we talked about maybe that was already five yeah, prior to that. So that that line and Jay says, like eighty mill that was a real Yeah, that was a real man eighteen months. Yeah,

line just really took off. You know. It wasn't a lot of urban brands at that time, so you had probably called can I and uh um fool ball who was you know, but that that they were fading out at the time, So fat was probably the only other thing that was kind of taken off, So was right

after that. Yeah, but you must have felt empowered because I remember going from a point where it's like, Okay, met Dame at the office, No, met Damon at the clothing spot, you know what I mean, like to really be making your money like outside of me, to be so relying on the record companies, and I know at times, you know, things got a little tense with def Jam at the time. So what would it like to get feel so empowered now that she was getting all this

income through another avenue. Well, we actually felt in power were going into the game, you know, so we always you know, being that we were street guys and you know coming up how we did We never, you know, at that time, really had any respect for anybody. We always thought we were better than everybody coming into the game. So it wasn't you know, we always felt empower from the beginning, whether we had something or nothing relatively speaking of what other guys were doing, and you know, in

the music or the clothing business. So we just always had that confidence. So you know, and at that time, when the clothing took off, you know, Dame kind of went over there and started to pay more attention than that. And that's what the time probably I started to uh be more hands on in the music business. So how did the fourth of November come about? Um? It was a childhood friend of mine. Uh, right, do we spoke? And um I went to talk to him one day

actually about some music. Uh. He had text me and said he wanted to talk to me, and I asked him what he's doing in the clothing business, and he began to tell me about this, um, you know, something he was working on. And how was this poor family out of Ecuador that met that was uh, that's a mother and father and how they started um, same thing with some of machines, and they had kids and they always had aspirations for their kids to kind of be

in a clothing business. And they grew up and the parents actually met on the street called Fourth in November, so in Ecuador, so it was actually his address. So he was telling me there was like a love story that created art and design that came to be Fourth in November. So he was telling me about all this product that they had and he wanted to partner with me. So we actually spoke about that the week before Fourth

in November and started and started last year. Yeah, yeah, last year, and then started the company on the fourth of November because we were saying, you popped up. We didn't see you till January, like you with the event, but you had got out of your situation from you actually been out of jail in May May. Yeah, and you decided to keep a low profile the oh yeah, so you know I had six months anyway, you gotta

be on halfway house home confinement. So I had to do that and get you know, and you know, once I started the music, I mean the clothing. Uh, we had an idea to kind of do these events and that's when I kind of popped up and guy started.

I just came home, but I had been home probably seven months probably, So why the pelican with the logo, and the pelican is kind of that's what Ecuador is kind of known for, like the near the Galapagos Island, so you know, there's a lot of different species out there, but the pelican is what everybody known for. So you go out there and that's like the main thing. You'll see it on a T shirt. So they kind of wanted to pay homage of that too. Back to the you know over there from my mom is half I

don't even know any of this. Yeah I could Greek and black. It was the line available now or Yeah, we actually, uh, they had a situation, so we actually partnered with foot Action and we got in their top thirty stores. So we're actually in the windows right now in the top thirty stores around the country. Yeah, and then we're going into May season June, and we opening up distribution. Now. It's funny because people just really took

to the line. So it's selling out online. So people going to our website and it's like out of stock, out of stock because we can't keep the product fast enough. Now we got to do reorders, but you know that takes sixty to ninety days. But I didn't know that it was gonna be you know, and people may not even know you're affiliated with it. Yeah, yeah, exactly, So they just kind of, you know, they like the quality

of the product, which was good. So now through these events, because I had the idea to kind of do like UM, it's like art Bossel and fashion fuse together. So we have these events where we have artists come paint um on the on the jeans or the jackets, so they used that as a medium, and then they also showed their pieces, and then we also do a build out of what the clothing line actually looks like. So it's like this taste mixer event that we're going state to

state UM around the country. So we did New York already where they did the denim jeans, and then we did Uh. We just came from Atlanta where they did the denim jackets, and we're going to l A next where we're doing the denim shirts, and then we'll be back here in June where I'm planning to do fourth in November. Presents reasonable doubts twenty year anniversary. But it's not an athletic line because you said foot action, right, yeah, you know, so foot Locker is more known for their

athletic line. Foot foot Action is now trying to move to boutiques. So actually the price point where we in, they didn't have that customer, so they wanted to partner with us to try to bring in a new customer into their you know, into their retail shops. Cool in the Atlanta event you said that was recently Atlanta was yeah, that's what I said, and that's why I was like, I grabbed them. I was like, yeah, I was like, come on, we gotta take a picture, you know. You know,

you know, that's the first time I met her. So I got to meet him. I'm at Sleepy Brown. You know a lot of guys that you know, respected in the game, so it was cool. He was there too. Speaking of respect, we're seeing a lot of images of you and every like talk about that. Yeah, man, I mean, Emery is my guy. So you know, like I said back in you know, in Vegas and ninety five, uh, you know, we became really cool. You know, he would come up here a lot to see j and we

would go shopping a lot down and soho. So you know, we go down there and Emory want to spend five six thousand dollars every week on close. So just funny that now he's like the fashion specialist right now. Um, you know, with with with rock Nation and also you know he's controlling that brand and also he works with New Era and he works with Puma adda. Like Emory is like all over the place. He actually has his

own Puma sneaker that's coming out. Yeah, so Emory Vegas Jones bet on Yourself So that's coming out I think on Black Friday. So I mean he's doing everything right now. Man. I was really you know, I was really come out of his situation definitely. So we you know, we aligned ourselves. You know, we were always best friends, you know, and we live close together, so we spend a lot of

time together. You know. I listened to him about what's going on, you know, with with the clothing lines and urban and his direction and stuff, and he listens to me and we throw you know, we bounced stuff off each other all the time. But um, I mean, he has a lot going on right now, so you know, and I'm real happy that I've seen a sneaker and the sweat too that's coming out. It looks real hot too. Yeah. Yeah, and it's a great designer. So what are your goals

for for novembers? Like I noticed obviously, like keeping a little profiles, no celebrity endorsement, it's no, no, I didn't. I didn't want to go that route like we did in the past because a lot of times when people fall out of love with the celebrity or the face of the brand, and it affects the brand. So I believed in equality, you know, something that we didn't have in the beginning. Uh, you know, back then it was

always about the face and somebody endorsing it. So I wanted everybody to kind of build a relationship with the brand through these cool events. So you know early events, you know, five to ten o'clock, six to eleven something like that. Guys go to the after party whatever. But it's really about just fusing art and fashion and then um having people coming and get a taste to fill

with what the clothes is. One of these wells maintain great relationships, right, even though you don't do a lot of media, you have a lot of great colleagues, and we've known each other for a long time, like talk about the points of that and like how like also impacted people you've worked with are now in the business and going on the great thing. Well, it probably was easy because you know, by Dames yelling, everybody, everybody wants

to talk to somebody in the ROMP. So I'm always I'm always a guy to guy, like I'm gonna talk to Biggs Man Biggs, you know, James on the side, he's like, you know, like you know, listen to the music, Dames yelling, and I'm the guy that everybody could talk to. So I maintained a lot of relationships. So that year

that definitely worked out. Is there any like um resistance kind of getting into this field, because I remember you said it a long time ago, like trying to break into the liqu with Armadale, you didn't know necessarily the ins and ounce This time around is a little bit easier too. It is easier because you know, this is something that I've done before. All the other businesses were you know, we we kind of jumped in for the

first time. So having um some experience helped a lot, especially with the team that I have so you know my partners rather you know, I mean Danny who was the head of sales and he broke other brands, you know, like he was there from the beginning of Rocketway from it was you know, from zero to three hundred and fifty million. He uh, you know, he helped Bill Coogie, helped um. You know, he was a part of truck Fit. He was a part of l R G and like someone and someone, and so was uh my other partner,

rydal who's also a childhood friend. I mean he knew his dame before he knew before I knew him. He grew up with Dame, knowing him since he was six years old, so you know he's been in the business and um did brands with them Goos and uh Little Boots and you know, so I mean it's a great team. And plus the head of production, uh you know, she worked at Calvin Klein Um John Varvado's uh the designer

actually in turn for me at Rockefeller. Then he worked at Rockaway and now he's a partner in this specific this specific brand as well. It's full circle cultivating down yeah, he said, growing up like I think obviously know you're from Halem and you and Dame, you know, knew each other for a while. Like how did you guys first connect? Like how did you guys first become through the It was a crew called the Best Out that my brother was a part of, and then I became, you know,

a part of that. So I was actually the youngest one in the crew. So all my friends are probably you know, two or three or four years older than me and my brother. I was probably fourteen at the time, and I met Dame one a hundred and forty street um on my man block where you know, Dame spent a lot of time, but a real close friend of mine named Terrell, But that all came through my brother. It was Dame, the young Dame. Like the way Damon's now was he always high energy? Yeah, exactly he was.

He wasn't arguing in the officers, he was arguing on the blocks. You have a lot of brothers though, right, Yeah, I have have eight brothers. One of them, the one specifically I was just talking about, he got killed. So that was Bob That yeah, Baba lad that Jay talked about h Lucifer. But yeah, I got a couple of brothers in the in the music business to uh, hip hop, which you know, some people it's the other shadow, right, like the he shows his face too much neither, but yeah,

hip hop. He was the A and R eight rd right H twelve or thirteen of J albums, did Beanie Segull and a lot of other projects for us. He did Little Kim in Atlantic, but he actually found Kanye. He found just Blaze, uh no I D and you know, and and build one of the biggest management companies, you know, with hip hop seventy eight another exactly Yeah, did you know hop had that in him like that he wanted to be in the business like that or just you know.

And it's funny because I've just seen uh he wrote something the other day was I'm not sure if it was. He was talking about the twenty if yearniversary, Oh yeah for Dead Presidents, and he said, yeah, I remember my brother Big picked me up. I picked him up from a basketball game and he was like and I was talking him, I'm like, yeah, I'm messing with this guy

named jay Z. I might do something the music. And he couldn't believe it because he went when I dropped him off, he went to his house and brought back probably like ten tapes, you know, cassette tapes and it's like here, listen to this, and he had all jay Z recordings. But you said you were in press part jay at first, right, No, I wasn't um in the beginning when Dane was managing j J rapped fast and the you know, the things that he talked about, I

couldn't really relate to. It was more you know, technical and skillful, uh you know rapper at that time. But it was at the battle with DMX that me and my brother Bob really was like, Wow, this dude is dope when he talked about money, dancing on the ceiling and all that and that tat do you know? Yeah? So when yeah, that that that battle was legendary. Yeah, no footage bigs Man, Yeah, Big big El had the footage. Yeah yeah, because big Els from the Locking on Big

Girl had the footage. Yeah. Big El was the one taping it. Yeah wow yeah, so that little good the footage that we had in backstage, it was like a little bit of it. Yeah, that came from big El. Bigel was there taping it instead of balance big Els out there taping himself. Amazing. That just blew my mind, right, yea so so so. But before that though, like, so

then you start to believe. So what is that trans like because Dave talked a lot about it, like, you know, you cats are from Harlem, Brooklyn cats move a different way. Like did you feel like you had to get to know Jay first before he was fully committed? Like what was the process of Like yeah, well, yeah, Dame introduced us and he kind of gave us a little, you know, a little background, and once we did it, it clicked automatically. It wasn't like a borrow thing at all to me

and Jay really, you know, we clicked. We hit it off, you know, and then all three of us we would hang out and spend a lot of time with each other. So at that time it was just supporting them on whatever they were doing in the music. So this one, you know, before there was a single deal or anything, and we would just go around shooting videos and they did.

I can't get with that. And then in my life time, you know, we flew down the same time as you know, still at that time it wasn't any deal, so it wasn't a single day until we got back. So you know, I got you know, my family's house in St. Thomas Emory brought the whole island out of Champagne. He bought every Chrystallan don peel in the island. So if you see a few bottles of Moet in the videos, because

that's all they had left. Yeah. So you know, we're just talking about that the other day, and you know, we just had a great time. It was all about the support even when we did um, the feeling it uh um. I mean in my Lifetime remix, same things, you know, just yeah, everybody just coming by, you know, with two or three cases of Christown. We just come

and support the video. Wow. I heard a story about the in my Lifetime video about the speed boats or something like that that somebody had to connect the like, oh yeah, well I'm from St. Times, so you know a lot of that stuff came through me and that was the past, big Yeah. So when did when did this shifted? We're gonna make a reasonable doubt, like in that that process of just you guys all together putting

an album together. That Yeah. So actually I was in the same time as I was living there for for a period of time and I had came back. They had a hurricane down there, so I had to come back, you know. So, uh, me and my girl came back, and then Dame and Jay approached me and you know, asked me if I wanted to be a part of you know, the company. You know, it wasn't just about support no more. If I wanted to come in and

be a real partner. So we had put that together. Yeah, and then the process of you know, j was ready to make an album like the reason probably at that time, I believe he had coming to age done and maybe that was probably the only song that was probably the oldest song on the album, so like Can't Knocked the Hustle. I picked the beat for that, um when uh what's

his name? No? Nobody, nobody, Yeah, nobody produced that. I remember picking that in front of leven ninety nine and damn at damns because Jay didn't like it at first that we had that presidents that Mace was rapping on it first and I didn't like the way his voice sounding on it. And then we end up spaces that don't remember that. Yeah, no, nobody everybody heard it. He's saying that. So that President assisted with Mace roman over Yeah, he was with the non sample and everything. Wow. Wow,

because you guys did some work with Mace. Yeah, we were doing yeah with the him came and uh damn, well I can't think of the name right now. Um blood Shot. Yeah, okay, so that was a group. Yeah, but did they have the you have the concept of reasonable doubting, but the whole concept of it we didn't have.

Um that came a little on. I think that was Jay's idea to do reasonable Doubt And then we end up getting with Jonathan Mannion who actually you know, did the cover and then we did you know, the suits and everything, you know, the two down on sixty two Street. So he went there and you know, bought some three thousand dollar suits to you know kind of do the

cover of that. But yeah, that was all j Um the idea for that, and even hear stories all the time, but just for Clary Rockefellow Records, like was other names for the label before or nah And actually Tone Hooker came up with that name. So Tone was a part of original Flavor, so he gave him the name, and he gave the name actually before you know, I had

something to do with it. So that was him, and it was you know like rock a fella, you know, like when you Battle, and then plus Rockefeller, you know, obviously being right here at the Rockefeller what they you know, the notoriety for being rich and that lifestyle. So it's kind of you know, played on both of that. But this year, making twenty years of that particular album, like looking back on it, like, what are your thoughts when?

I mean, it's crazy. I still can't believe it. You know, my son is about to be twenty years old, and like all these memories are coming back, like I remember having him and walking him in the office. But uh, twenty years it's just, I mean, so much has happened since then, you know. I mean, Jay's um, you know, taking things to another level things that we started. Uh, everybody's kind of moving on their own now. But everybody's

doing great. But not only that, all the guys that we kind of raised in the music you know, so everybody that worked for us A is either a vice president or a president at a different record label music company. Is just crazy to me. I'm just happy for everybody, you know, even the Street team. You know I'm looking at now they have real estate companies and things like that. So every time, you know, I run into somebody and

hear about what's going on. I'm just like, you know, it's really good, you know the place that everybody's in right now. Even in the video for Dead Presidency, you got you were at the table playing monopoly with the guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was crazy. I think we probably brought up about two hundred and some thousand dollars and we had, you know,

real money. So remember I remember Biggie Eyes opening, like, what's these guys ain't put out an album yet where they're getting this so and if you notice all our videos back then, it's all closed bottles of crystal, you know. So and then we make sure that they opened by the end of the video because a lot of people they got to, you know, take those bottles back. How important was it to show that you guys were different and authentic and that you guys were really living this lifestyle?

Like it was really important because that's what we were selling. Like people were really buying into what we were really living. It wasn't something that we were just talking about. So you know, even you know, we we went through Atlanta right before we dropped the album, and I mean we made so much noise and then by the time we came out, people was like, oh man, I really remember, like they was really doing what they say they were doing. So at that time, you know, we really had to

show that. But but you couldn't buy your ways authenticity. This this is he also down to how you didn't approached it because it's not like you can really buy yourself into the game, right Like you guys really took to the road and did the chipless circuit and didn't remember remember rumbling yourself to Jay opening up for Hill and out scratch and I remember, yeah, I remember doing colleges when it was probably about ten of fifteen people there,

but Jay still killing it. Those ten or fifteen people were standing up, you know what I'm saying. So yeah, he I mean, he put in a lot of work, and people don't understand that because a lot of people come into the game now and they don't know how to perform. They don't know how to do, you know, they don't know what bars is. They don't know it's just about a song like catchy hook. But Jay put in so much work and it took so many years to get to that point to just reasonable doubt that

people just think that it happened overnight. It wasn't overnight success. They say it takes like ten years to be over. So when you know onean there reasonable that like when did you when did you feel like towards the end of making that album, when did you feel like, Okay, this album is like special and like I think this is like, I mean, everything every song was was crazy

being indeed did at that time. And then Uh, Premiere, I remember we were talking we was actually going to perform and uh and Howard and we spoke to Premiere and we was going on the highway and he was like, man, I like what y'all did with Patrick Moxy and how y'all got off the label. I'm doing three songs for nine thousand. So we was like what you know because that was so you know, Premier getting on board. Um, I mean just to sound like, you know, we have so much fun back in D and D at that time.

You know what I'm saying, the you know, the the greediness to grime, you know, being in there. But I think the turning point was that day when Biggie came in and when you know, now you're you're seeing two grades together doing Brooklyn Finals. He was like, man, this, This is gonna be crazy. And it's funny because Biggie came in there and Biggie didn't know what bars was. You know, remember how that that you know that was like on on a fifth bar or something like that.

That song, it was kind of crazy. So it took Biggie probably three sessions before he actually finished. So Jay went in there finished at the same day, you know, and Biggie's like, man, when you run with my song, man, I'm gonna make sure it's a regular beat. You ain't gonna have all of these. But when you guys happy, I mean because you hit a story like Volume one, it wasn't critically acclaimed as but were you happy with the way Reasonable Doubt came out? That's the reason why. Yeah,

definitely yeah. And you know everybody said, like the first album, you take your whole life doing it right, so you know, everything else is only a year or six months or whatever it is you're putting it out from there. So it was everybody's input, I mean, down to the skits, I mean, you know, everything, like we was trying to make, you know, a classic. We was like, man, we're gonna put out all into it, and I mean Jay was just it just seems so easy that he would, you know,

the fire that he was spitting at that time. I mean like, you know, day after day he'll like he'll call and then spit the evils on the phone. Then I'll see him. Then he'll like, y'all got this beat and this can I live? And he's spitting that in the car, you know what I'm saying. So we were like, yo, Jay, I'll call him again. My man Kurt or Clody being like, yo, do that, So on the evils again, and then we put them on speaker phone and JV spitting and you

know what I'm saying. So those are like really really good times. But it wasn't like when def reached out before we get the one like that, that that transition of okay, now you even caught the attention of the major record labels, like they'll treat you like a big boy now. So when it was actually Sony and Def Jam that was reaching out, we were really close to doing the UM deal with with Sony with Ron Sweeney.

But Haron Sweeney, yeah, so he had he had did something that was a little underhanding and then um we had you know, we talked about it. Then we had gave our word to Leore that we would do to deal with them, so we just went back and I seemed to be a better situation for us. So was it always that contentious thing of you guys we see Damon Lear and the jackets and things like that. Was it always a contentious No, it wasn't. What was your

take on the partnership with that champlan? And and in the beginning that it was love because you know, especially we had so much success, right so with that, we were just really trying to protect the brand at that time.

So when we came out, we had uh well you know what started it probably was when we dropped in My uh in My Lifetime volume one and when it wasn't doing good, and then Dame had the idea to do Street Is Watching, you know, to get the Streets back on board because of a Sunshine video and Leo and everybody didn't believe in us. So at that point

it was like, man, y'all coldness and that. So Jay Dame was like, look, we gotta plan, and we did that on our own and then it kind of you know, pushed us the platinum so that now they're back on board, So at that time it was kind of like, oh yeah, now we see, you know what these guys is about.

And especially the formula that we had. The formula, you know, the buying cell formula that we had didn't kick into the third album, I mean the next album, which was Hard Knocked Life, and we knocked it out the park. The formula, the formula because we had you know, we once we signed the deal, we knew we were going to sell a company, but the formula didn't kick in until that album, which was good. So when it when it kicked in, you know, it's amount of records sold

times uh ned and profit. You know, it was you know, a whole formula that was put in place, and we end up selling six million records, So they didn't think that, so it just it helped them at the same time because they was getting ready to sell, so it raised their value and then it just pushed our value through the roof and you both sold at the same time, and Death Jam end up selling the year after that, and then we sold in two thousand well we sold

in two thousand two, and then we did an extension to two thousand and five. So a lot of people think in two thousand two, everything was sold. They only gave us a portion of the money, so we end up making um just from the sale. It was close to thirty million dollars and that's not counting you know, the royalties and everything else. But the intention was always not to make a profit and to sell it. No, No, we made profit. We made the profit all along the way,

you know, But you don't. You was always thinking of the formula and having in theot a long term thing. You wasn't trying to have this lave because we know and at that time, you know hip hop, I mean the life of a you know, a rap artists only two or three albums. So we're just trying to build a company to sell it. You know, that's when we cash out. Was there always a concern your end that that? Because JA remember and people forget back then. J Woul always talk about I'm only gonna make it a one

more album. We're gonna do right like people. Little just told me that the other day, and that's exactly what I did. I laugh. It was like, come on, man, too close to the Beatles now, But no, adding all those acts like bringing the diplomats on board, like what was your take on that was that also moves to try to make sure that that was just actually, no,

it wasn't. That was just a relationship that we had with Cam and he actually came to um Dame with that, and then Dame called me in the studio to hear the album and it was ridiculous. I mean, I think it was only probably only Old Boy and maybe uh New York City. Those two two songs were probably the only ones that weren't on the album. The rest of the whole album was done, So Cam just came with a with a complete project. So you know, I give

him all the credit for that. We didn't do anything, but people talk about the era when you know, Cam was made VP of and all that type of stuff. But did their presence, because their strong personalities that cause some tension and sort of change the dynamic in away that, Yeah, I guess. So you know what I'm saying, There was a lot of things going on at that time, and you know, at that time we were at a place

where everybody kind of wanted to do different things. So it was just a lot of probably tension period in between death Jam and Rockefeller, so you know, were winding down and at the time, we were trying to think about how to make the artists coming up bosses so they could have their own record companies and music labels and then owned staff because at that time we knew we were transitioning out. During the Streets Is Watching that

that was Was that an independent release? No, that was with Death because it felt like you guys had to do that out of necessity. I mean, in the hindsight, it's do you guys think you get the credit you deserve, because like I don't remember any video acting kind of theatrical releases together. Four Streets Is Watching. Um, well, you know people who who who really knows about hip hop and can look at Streets Is Watching, they know what it meant to the game. Because a lot of people

try to replicate that to something. I mean, Kanye even up to recently, what he did, you know with the making of um what was that an album two ago? When he did it was along the same line. He just did it a lot of artistic Um. You know, we just did it with our dul you know, so just walking around with a camera and just putting something together. You know, nobody knows how to act to anything like that. But Uh yeah, I think people kind of recognize it though.

But by the time when Jay was doing the black Out, I guess you also just felt as a company that you weren't nearing towards the end, right from what you So that's what I'm saying reflected from the whole company on exactly. So we knew at that time, you know, two thousand and five that was gonna be it anyway, So everybody was kind of going off and you know,

do their own things. So you know, two thousand, uh probably yeah, two thousand, that's probably when I stepped in to to do uh all the business on the music level. So I personally did uh the State properties and I did uh um Young Guns album, you know they Can't Stop, Won't Stop. And then I um broke Kanye's first album,

so I did that personally as well. So you know, at the time, Dame thought it was he didn't really understand the music for Kanye's album, thought we could just put people on, and Jay was kind of off doing the stock Harter thing, so you know, I kind of hired independent radio guys and got on the single and

picked the second single and so on. From the Jude Wire on from through the Wire on Yeah, just pre this kind of philosophy, pre when you had a dream Team album, because I think the dream Team album was after that. Yeah, what did you see in Kanye? Did you? Did you think because he didn't fit artists at that time.

I was spending a lot of time in the studio. So, like I said, Dame was at Rocket Wear and UM doing you know some other things with UM with the fashion and you know, I mean I heard a classic you know, so and me and college college dropout of Me and Kanye would have long, long, long conversations and you know he had the idea for the next two or three albums after that. Yeah, so I've seen the

genius of what he was trying to create. So I would actually go back and talk to Dame, and Dame would just was being, you know, at the forefront and would go and argue with because Lear didn't believe in at the time, they wanted to drop Kanye and the young Guns. While we had Can't Stop, Won't Stop in Through the Wire, there was like take them someplace else,

and then we went to UM I can't believe Capital. Yeah, yeah, it was Capital, and they was kind of you know, we thought they was idiots at the time, so we want He was like, we might aso just keep it over here and Death Jam and that's how we ended up. What was your world musical? Like people don't know that? Like how much like your picking beach and giving people port like exacut the production more so. Yeah. Yeah, so but everything at that time, I was, you know everything.

I was controlling the label at the time, so every day going to death Jam downstairs, you know, meeting with my staff one today, so publicity radio, you know, um, legal samples and uh like everything from A to Z. Were you wanna bring it on? What's that you? Yeah? Ok, yeah, I was rap them up big. Yeah. But why would Leo want to drop Kanye? They didn't believe in the project at the time. It was early on, so I think at that time through the wire it was only

getting about sixty spins. It was just one place in d C. And then Virginia caught on fire. So, um, they didn't they didn't see the potential in the project. But when you're in conceration, know, Dane was really adamant you know for you, you know, fighting for you. He was saying like he was upset with Kanye because he said he didn't stick up for you or I really

don't understand what I was about. I've heard, you know, some things and people send stuff in, but I've seen Kanye the other day, so I went to the UM, you know, the UM the listening party had in the garden. So that's my first time seeing him, first time seeing Jay. Like Jay and I we were speaking, you know, prior to that, but that's the first time we've seen each other in a long time. And a lot of people, you know, always asked me three years, what's gonna happen

when you see j What's gonna happen? And I was like, I don't know. We probably laughing. That's exactly what happened. We just laughed for like five minutes before we said anything. And then somebody tapped me from behind and I turned around as Kanye and he was like, Yo, thank you so much for coming out. You know. But because people, you know, the Black felt thing, I think is the biggest movement that people believe in, Like you said, for

the integrity got stood on. It's still hard for people to accept that that that ended, you know what I mean, Like, what were your feelings at the time, and what are your feelings now about the situation. Um, At the time, you know, it was a sale of a company, so everybody was you know, just moving off in different directions. And uh, at that time, we were still young, you know, so there was, like I said, there was a lot

of things going on internally at the company. We wasn't speaking a lot day to day and spending it as much time as we did you know, when we were younger to kind of iron things out. So you know, there were some discrepancies and then people, you know, when they their own ways. But eventually, you know, we all spoke about it. But at that time, like I said,

we were all in a different place. So you know, even coming home, like you said, maintaining those relationships, you know, as I see everybody, it's just like, look, man, we made history together, like you know, like nobody could take that away from ussel, you know, I mean, everybody's just happy for each other right now and just trying to support because I remember hearing the time Jay was saying, well, if you give me reasonable doubt, then you know, I'll

let you guys have the company or run the company and stuff like that, like that's a conversation they had with Dame that yeah, that was you know, over the name. But uh yeah, that's what happened, but we decided not to you know, but that's you know, but now that that's still the thing is still buyds the free of you guys together, the reasonable Doubt. That's why people like, are we're gonna get a twenty anniversary show, We're gonna get those kind of things. Yeah, I'm not, like I said,

I'm not sure about the show. I'm not sure what Dame or Jay is doing. I know what I'm gonna do for for a reasonable doubt, And you know, I spoke to Johnathan Manning about it, and I'm thinking about, you know, having because he did Reasonable Doubt in the next albums after showing all the pictures and all the artwork as the art you know, along with you know,

fourth in November clothing. But I'm not sure if Jay is gonna do something, Dame's gonna do something to be more powerful if we all did something in different states at the same time anyway, right, because it's a big project. But you didn't feel like Kanye had an obligation to hold you down. Definitely not. No, I don't feel no, this has an obligation to hold me down to do anything because we I mean, we we enter into a business agreement. So you know obviously at that time we're

signing people and we're you know, investing in them. But you know we were really successful, you know, so, I mean, whether you make the money back or not, it's a business deal. It's not about you know, somebody you know, I'm gonna sign you and if I ever get in trouble, you gotta be there for me. You know. It's not about that, you know. So a lot of times in the past, people built, uh everything was on transaction about what if I do something for you, you got me

later on. And it's a learning experience now because all the business I do now is on a is relational is because I'm doing it out of love, you know what I'm saying. So if I do something for somebody, I never expect anything in return. And I think that's the difference that I learned over the twenty years being in business. But it seems like with Dame, with the separation, he took his person away and then it led to a lot of times on to get off again kind

of situation. Well, do you feel like kind of like you like more in the middle level and looking at it kind of objectively at this time, or oh yeah, definitely, but you know Dame last, Like I got pictures in jail with Dame and J together, and then they would text me or email me because it's the email. Yeah, so they would email me together as well. So I never really listened to what the press is saying because I know they was put in a different light. But when you know, when I speak to J, when I

speak to Dame, it's all love, you know, touch incarceration. Um, during that time, Um, what was that? What was your mindset when you're going through that? Because you just were released a year ago? And um, prior to that, when did you go in? And I went in in two thousand and twelve, and yeah, I got out about eight months ago. And you know when you when you go in, there's just a lot of reflection. It's, um, you know,

you think about what you're gonna do when you get out. Um, you think about you know, the past, present and everything. So you know, for me, I just did a lot of reading, a lot of working out. That's why a lot of people don't recognize me. Man, so when they

see me. But more or less, you know, I started to uh build relationships with the men in prison, and I started to think about them differently as well, because you know, I had friends Emory obviously on one of my closest friends being in prison for a long time, and Big Tie, who's in in prison right now. Uh, you think about the support for them and it's just about, yeah, I'm gonna send them some money and you send them

some pictures and that's it. But you don't really think about what they're going through and what their family going through and what the day to day is like. So I got to experience that myself. And that's actually another thing that I'm doing right now is a nonprofit where I'm going back into prisons to help the guys, you know, in fellowship with them and then have them connect with this UM group called New kind of Society UM on the outside and they have sixty five chapters around the

country just to help support them. And it's more about not about giving you know, I mean, obviously put giving them money and you know it's one thing, or sending the magazines, but it's actually just about being yeah, relationally and to support them through this process, whether calling their sons on the birthday or the or their daughters or helping it, you know, their parents on the outside and just giving them an air for somebody to talk to.

Do you feel like you're being targeted because I know you had an arrest pride for a similar charge, like in two thousand three or so, I wouldn't say I was being targeted. But they used me for, you know, to publicize that case, you know, because they made it out much bigger than you know what it was. You know, yeah, you know, at that time, I was going to buy some dispensaries in California and then I connected guys from New York to l A. And with that, you know,

they said it was a conspiracy. But at the time, the d A really just wanted me to talk and I refused to do that. So that's why I got the time that I did. And I remember seeing the report that they said, we're using the court. You said you said to the judge that you'll never see me again. Why did you feel it was important to say that? Why was that your statement to the court. Oh, but you know, because I knew at that at that moment, how it was affected my family, So you when you

do things sometimes you just really think about yourself. So my son, who was fourteen at the time, was going through a real rough time, so that statement was really that was more for him as well, you know, not really for the judge, you know, I was letting her know, but it was for the people in the audience. There was a lot of kids there, my nephews, nieces, and a lot of people that I raised and helped out. So you know, I just wanted to kind of set a bad example that I'm gonna go in this is

but You'll never go through this again. It's never gonna happened again. What were your conditions like in jail? Like, was it you know, oh this big rocket feller that people recognize you? Yeah, there was people recognize me. There was guards that recognized me. But in that situation it could play out two ways. You could get a lot of love or it could be a lot of hate.

You know, so you know, some guards to hate you because of who you are, and some guys, you know, guards to show you a little bit of you know, a little bit of love. Um. But you know, I guess it was probably a combination of both. You already locked up in New York. Nah, I was in Louisburg. I was in New York for a period of time of Brooklyn and UM in Manhattan, MCC and m d C. And then I went to Louisburg and then I finished out my time in McKee in Pennsylvania. Now, the first

time you had ever been locked up or anything? Right? Yeah, for any sentence? Did you think that? Was it what you thought you had thought about the dangers of the lifestyle that may lead to that? Was it did end up ever being what you thought it was gonna be. Um, I never really gave a thought before. But at the time, how I I made sense of it because of my past, and I was just like, well, you know, this is kind of like a slap and the risk because of things would have happened to me a long time ago.

You know, I probably have been in there for twenty or thirty years. So I just kind of made sense of it like that. Just try to go in and into it with, you know, positive as it could be. Was it hard readjusting once you were released? Uh? Not really. I didn't know what to expect though, you know. So there's a lot of people in the music and entertainment business,

who's been in the out of jail. But I think at that time we kind of surpassed that of just being known as music or you know, uh label execs, because we had so many different companies. But you know, with the New Canaan Society, I went there and actually spoke there for about forty minutes one day, and I started to see the reception from guys in the marketplace. You know, different guys who who's not a part of this world, and you know that that really helped me

out a lot. So when you first day home, what happens? What do you do? Uh? First day home? I actually I got married. Yeah, so the first day home, I got married, and then I had a bunch of food in the car, shrimp, uh home cook food. My my sister, my wife, and my son came to get me and end up going I was supposed to actually go straight home to home confinement, but I got there late and uh I had to state United at the halfway house and then after that just went home. But he came in.

No one's gonna get married. Yeah yeah, yeah. Bigg does things, does things big, So she's you know, uh, the mother of my twenty year kids. So it's a lot of history there too. So we actually met her. We're just talking about it last night. I met her talking about going the same time to shoot in my Lifetime video. Wow. Yeah, I think I think Big wants to go back to St. Thomas. I just made reservations. I'm going in Junie for what.

Speaking of trips, I remember seeing talking here and didn't talk about, like that trip you took Kanye to London? What was that experience? Like? I mean that was great, especially for for Kanye. I think that UM really introduced him to to the UK, and he was a little reluctant about going on that trip. And once he got out there though, and then received a love I mean

he talks about it today. He spends a lot of time overseas and I think he up yeah, and and and it kind of all goes back to that first trip. I just seen some footage that Um yeah, Tim Westwood dropped the other day. UM with that. And know, because we end up spending a lot of time out there, we end up getting the house out there, you know that we were renting, so uh dam and I between

l A, California, New York. We would probably spent two weeks um in each place, so we'd be two weeks in New York, two weeks in Beverly Hills, and two weeks in London. So we had a place in Victoria and Dave Beckham actually bought the house that we used to rent out in Chelsea. I'm saying those amazing moments like obviously you guys, like you said, came in with some money, but like to reach these heights, Like was there moments where you just look back like, wow, I

can't believe, Like it's definitely in one. Yeah, when I came home maybe I want to say three months ago, Uh, my wife opened up this chest and I've seen probably four or five pictures that I didn't even know I still had, And as I'm going through the pictures, I could remember the moment. So at that time, I man, I mean I was smoking so much weed, doing you know, doing everything. It was like a blur, just like when

you're living it. But now as I look back, you know, it was an amazing ride during that five year gap when you were going, like what do you think change is the most, Like you know, social media is prominent now, things like that. Well, I'm saying I've seen that a long time ago. You know, I had a social network back in two thousand one block savvy. Yeah, so you know I kind of seen, uh, you know, where it was going with that, But it was it was pretty

much prevalent before I went in. You know, I don't end up doing probably close to four years in prison, So it wasn't you know, you know, relatively speaking that much time. Yeah, the game has changed a lot. Yeah, the game has changed, you know. I guess the biggest thing is the you know, the music and you know, the soundclouds and things like that and other music platform

the streaming services online. That's probably the biggest change, you know, especially for the artists because a lot of artists are launching their careers through that. Right. You think about Little Yaddi right now, you know what I'm saying. I mean, he's having amazing success and that's all through you know, just streaming services, you know. And I spoke to Coach K. He doesn't even want to sign them to a label.

You want to go back to the music thing. You might hear somebody you be like, oh my god, I might want to go back in No, not really, you know, like I said, we made history with that. Do you feel like Dame said that at the times, Like you said, such a high standard. It's almost like it has to be a certain quality to do it. Truthfully, I didn't have a love for music. I mean I love music personally, but I didn't have a love for the music business. And and and also that whole time, it was just

a good business decision. And I've seen the bigger picture and all the other things we could have done around it. So that's why I actually entered into that, you know, that deal with Damon Ja. It wasn't about oh yeah, because I love music so much, this is what I want to do. I actually like business. I like starting things and making something from nothing. Is it true that you introduced Jaya One? Yeah yeah, so um yeah. One is a you know, used to be a real good

friend of mine. We spent a lot of time together. And even during the Hard Knock Life tour, I think I only went to one show, yeah, the one, the one in d C. Because Alan Iverson was against Ross Strickland. I wanted to go to the game, so I flew out to the d C. But like during the whole time, it will just being me and one we'll be on his block and just buying Magnum's, uh Christal Rose and just going to clubs every day and just spend a

lot of time. So you would have won the four point of range, the roles you introduced that four point six excuse me? Yeah, yeah, I never had a four point so, yeah, I had the platinum rolegs, the you know, the range, the Champagne and Louis, the thirteen for all that, you know, like me and Dame would joke about it, but like Biggs did it first and j put in

the verse. Yeah, but things did it first. And yeah, but you know, those are great guys man, And I think about the roster that you guys had, Like did you sign off from all those guys that ever came through Rockefellert? Were you? Yeah? So we all everything you know, we made, we came together collectively to make all the decisions, you know, especially with the signings, and I mean, you know it was something that we missed too with Scarfs. Were pretty close to sign in Twister. Yeah. I signed

a lot of people Twister. Yeah. And then because Nori was just her here right, yeah, he said you had she took your chain and I was just about to say that. So that's the only and no, can I have my chain back? So because I personally gave him my chain and then he never signed a deal and kept the chain. Yeah that sounds like some would do. Yeah, that chain back, but nobody changed. You have no change. I got Yeah, I got to that was my original. That was the original chain, the very first one. Wow.

Yeah yeah, somebody, somebody in the line. Get him on Skyper something, you don't know, he got it somewhere. Let me get that chain back. But of course, you know, Jay and Kanye are probably the most successful ones, like you know, twenty years later, like you see Jay has title, he has rock Nation, Like what are your thoughts about, you know, the success that he has the Barclay Center like, well you while you was inside, he kind of made a lot of these power moves. Yeah, I was happy,

you know, and that actually motivated me. You know, so a lot of times, you know, when I'm going through things and I was spending the track and put on a Jay's album or something like that, you know, some old music. You know, I would get inspired by hearing all these things that was going on outside. So it just kind of motivated me. Even more to you know, just want to come out and do something. So you kept kind of a contact like in the air to

the street more or less. Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, that's crazy. So it was another and here it was just it was all you I used an all for motivation, right, So everyone's good then you dame Jay everyone. Yeah. Wow. That's great to hear though, because people just want to celebrate, man,

the glory days. I mean, you think, what do you think the movement ranks were, Like there's been powerful movements in music, the Bad Boys, the Death Rows, but I think something about the Rockefeller Rain, you know, connects to people in a special way because, like you said, because of the integrity, because of the authenticity, and even then it's still building. Yeah that's probably why. You know, so a lot of you know coming gone, but this is

still building. You know. Unfortunately Biggie pass you know, Tupacat's passed, and Sugar's gone, what he's going through. But um, you know the different things, it's still building. Especially with the name rock out there still right with rock Nation and things like that. You know that's being done and you know, me and Emery working together, I mean T T taking over the realms. You know, you've got Jay Brown, you got Shaka, you got Sharry over in Atlantic and Manual

over in Atlantic. I mean our branch you are just seen the other day. It's just, you know, I'm just happy that you know, we've got guys all over right now. That's still you know, feeling the you know, getting you know, receiving a success that they you know, they work. So you can sit there pairing up with any of those and you feel like it's important to build your own, like would you join the Rock Nation in some capacity or you feel like I don't know if I would

want to join in that capacity. But what I'm doing right now and I have UH in the house branding company and fourth November UM with this line, it's just one clothing line that I'm going to drop over the you know, over the next eighteen months, we got four more clothing lines. So a lot of people don't understand what's going on, and they, you know, I think that I was chasing Rocketwear or another clothing line, but I have things going on in different tiers of different distribution UM,

different tier levels, so you know, different price points. So it's not really about what Fourth November is doing. It's about the whole thing, and then in house branding company and the marketing company along with that, and then we're also looking to buy businesses and and and partner up with strategic partners as well. So it's it's it's a bigger place over the fourth November was just the first thing in place, and like I said, people gravitating towards

it and it's selling out. So you know, that's just just laying the foundation. You and Dane was supposed to do allowance together called the Breakfast Club. What happened with that? We we know we had a club together. Yeah, So we had on four teen Street and I forget the name of it all the time. It was the old Nails so used to be Yeah, so with um with

with Noel Ashman. So we had a club there and we had one in Beverly Hill too that we had invested with justin timber Lake and a couple of other people. Don't want yeah bus mental dot com. You know about that, Vito, I know I need to get a ride. Well, you can choose for a wide variety and motor coaches, party buses and limousines. Man, you want to write a Limo movie. You got a little money now, man, you don't got

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percent use the promo cod CBS bus bus rental dot com. Hey, yes, hey, rap raids and me and my partner beat our miller man with only opinion that matters. Man here rap raid off. What was some diusito you think, broll we should have did that? Like that that was a bad move, Like you could admit, you can admit that maybe that wasn't the right thing. They look back on like that might not have worked or rock box that's the first thing that this came among. But actually it was a good idea,

That's what I'm saying. It was a good idea. Just that we couldn't get the price point that we needed to compete with Apple. So at the time, I mean, Apple was buying so many MP three players and we needed to shrink the size and we couldn't. We couldn't do it because of the price points and our our MP three player would have had to be priced higher than theirs. So we kind of got out that business.

The margins was just didn't make sense for Armadale. Why didn't that like become Well, what happened was we were partners with William Grant and Sons and they had maybe four other brands they were fifty partners with and they wanted to own all their brands that so we actually brought them out and got back a hundred percent of it. And at the time, we were trying to find new distribution and new manufacturers and it, you know, it just didn't work out with the partners we were trying to

get with. And then somebody picked up the trademark because I think it's out there and that at one point it was dead, but it's still I think it's someone picked it back up. What you said, so, what's your favorite rock release? Man, Man, we need that big before we get out of here. We need that big playlist.

It's funny right now I'm listening to a lot of American gangster and it's funny because that album in some ways remind me of reasonable doubt, because you still like I'm catching lines now I've heard it about thirty times and I'm like, well, I don't even catch that line, you know, you know, off the off the wall, no easel. Uh. Like Mike Jackson, I was like, man, he just killed that's talking about that the other day. It's funny because people would hate on Jay said, well he should retire.

Why does he keep going? And now the due generation it's feeding for him to come back with your music, like why doesn't you give us album? And then he's the rappers rappers too, you know as well, So you know other rappers love him, you know what I'm saying. So and Jay Small, he knows he could collaborate anybody, and he's gonna still kill him on the record. So yeah, yeah, that's it. Jay gonna smash you down. So um, I mean, it's it's so many songs on there, man, I don't

know if I got any favorites. Is a combination of a bunch of albums, you know, so I'm always currently changing playlists and you know, and and liking songs until you know they fade out, and then putting new ones in. But I mean, with the body of music Jay haf Man, it's it's it's kind of hard to say I like this over. I mean, he got I mean easily a hundred fifty hits. Is it hard for a person like you that were so involved with the Rocket Fell obviously to listen to the album the way I would listen

to the album? Uh, it probably was. But in jail I got to listen to it as a fan, and I got to appreciate a lot of the songs, you know, from the other side, especially with him coming out with new music. So, uh, you know, some of the stuff I remember even not liking in the beginning. Um in this right before I went to jail, watched The Throne. I remember calling hip hop like, oh man, that's a dud. And I remember calling the next day it's like, oh man,

that's a classic. Because they used to be in the studio. Man, so you get the music on tapes or how was it listening to they have an MP three player and yeah, and the Federal system. Yeah, that's to come up. Yeah. Wow. So what's your fondest moment of Like I have so many rocket Fellers stories, like seen it from the outside looking in. Um, probably just the free play. And I just told me and j was talking about the other day.

I was like, um, you know, when you get back in the studio, we are going in and get some free play. We would call a free play because say, if j is going to do a song like that President's whatever, he'll just start rapping and it won't be the lyrics for that song. And we used to call a free play. So you start hearing like versus and stuff you've never heard before, and he'll just go on for like, you know, five ten minutes, fifteen minutes sometimes

just getting it out. Yeah, just just going crazy. And that's what we used to love, Like Yo, put that on there, and put that on there, and he's like knowing and you might not never hear it again. Yeah, So we used to call a free play and Jason just go crazy, you know, because you don't write nothing to so he forgets music. It's a lot of stuff that you forgot, So like, um, a song that was supposed to go on reasonable doubt called It's Hot. Um was crazy that Ski produced It's Hot. Yeah, hear that.

I don't know, I don't I don't know where it's I don't think Ski has it. Wow, you know the young group that got a lot of who don't have that. What I want to know is, like after volume two, that's probably my favorite job. What was life like for you guys because you sold six million records? Um, it was just like you know, we knew it. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean like that to other people, but for us, it was always playing in the next thing.

So you remember right after that Rockaway came out, Right after that, Armadale came out. Right after that. It was just you know, did a lot of things come your way or you still had to kind of like have this independent spirit. Um, things things came out way, but you know, we were really creative and wanted to do

things on our own as well. It was a lot of turning things down because people at that time come with you with everything rock this, rock, that, rocket is that, and we was like, oh man, this don't make sense. So at that time, that's when my space sold for five and eighty million, and then I was trying to look to use database that we had from the music to try to build a social network. So it was always just trying to chase the next thing, oh man. And also you wouldn't a couple of videos only like

four videos. I think was always resistant videos. It was feeling face off the life in my lifetime. And I think it was also, uh, can't stop, won't stop? Those are the four maybe, and it was it was. It was probably a few more. He wasn't. It wasn't that,

But it was never like your thing to be. Yeah, we'll talk about even now, Like I was like, I don't know if we're gonna get twenty minutes from bigs, like Big doesn't do interviews, Like why do you feel it's time to kind of just put yourself out there a little bit more and talking? Well, I didn't. We didn't have to before. So Jay didn't do it neither, right, So that the way the company was built was yeah, yeah, Dame, would you know do that? He would be the face

of that. He would do all the interviews and that's Jay would rap, and then me I would just handle business and then come through when we need to do things collectively. You know a lot of times Like I said, I spent a lot of time in the studio, so you know, I worked with all the artists through the studio with hip hop at that time. So hip hop being a studio just sitting on hits, and you know, we like, you know, we gotta put this music out.

You can't just have the music in the studio. We have to put it out grabbing, grabbing files like it's going out to went to rock the mic when you know he had that right, I mean, hip hop had that song for like eight months just sitting on rock and pick and what he didn't believe it enough for he just because he was doing something. You know, it was so much music and at that time, we had

all those different artists. So I would come in and I'm like play, you know, let me start hearing songs, and this is a baseline, and we just started putting albums together. What was your take on that row? We talk They talked about the arrow you have like a young Kanye Young just blaze banging these beats out and and you know, um Bank Bank was doing his thing. People forget big dope beats too. You feel like now you have like a hit factory thing going on. Now,

Like it was just so natural, you know. I mean, guys have just come there and then they didn't want to leave. We have so many artists that they all love, right, So I mean stay property in itself was like three or four groups and then along with Kanye you know what I'm saying, Yeah, dip set and it was just so much work there. It's like I could stay here and I'm getting on somebody's album, you know what I'm saying.

Bleak you know? You know still at that time, Wow, what's has made of the of the j oh boy thing? Like what was your tick on that? Like Jay wanted to get on the record and they didn't want him to be on the record, I guess, And he did get on the record. Yeah, but camming like the way um and came out at that time? Did that kind of stuff happen often the times with certainly because everybody

so involved with each other's projects. I think Jay's view he always wanted people to stand on their own and he didn't want um they notoriety to come from him being on one of their songs. So a lot of times if you hear j on any of the old artists on is always album cut. J wouldn't get on the sink because if it sounds like a single, he knows that they're gonna be like, oh yeah, video they always got you listen to it. It's always an album cut. I think welcome to X You know what I'm saying.

Listen like you know, singles are three. Jay always got on the song's four five minutes. Ja, I got another verse. I never thought about this kid go to radio. Oh I know it because the thing with him, I remember, wouldn't running exxcel. He wouldn't pose with the younger artists on the cover like Fifty would do that. Fifty would stand next to Banks, but he would standing next to Year. Jay wouldn't do a cover with whoever it was. That's why that segull whant I had to fight for it. Yeah,

that was just Jay thing. He just want anybody stand on his own during that beef. Ever, did you did you? What was your mind set at the time? Did you

even care? It was just I mean Jacob nas the whole rocket versus Yeah, Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely, I can't um can't be just playing ether around bigs and stuff like yeah, because yeah, it was funny because he when he did the song that Earth came and got me and hip hop was going home, and I was calling the studio like, no, the bridges over, the bridges over, we gotta do the bridges over, give him the beat, send the beat down in and then he already had

did uh super super ugly. Oh you wanted him to rhume over the bridges over? Oh yeah, damn. Was that record that in particular that you believed in that maybe rose to the top that no one else believed in,

or no, what's gonna be a hit? Um? Yeah, well probably the young Gun song Can't Can't Stop, Won't say that was a big Nobody really thought that that was gonna be and um a young and R Ramsey had played the beat for me and it kind of it reminded me of that clip song um grinding, and it had that kind of that sound too, you know, so sonically it reminded me of that, But I thought the hook was bigger on that song. So I had believed in that, and that actually was one of our biggest

songs that rockefell. I think we got maybe about eight house and spins on that. It was almost a number one record. Speaking of clips, push your tee shout at you out, kare, What did you think of that? Yeah, yeah, push your teeth and showing a lot of love. He um, you know said my name in a couple of songs. I haven't. I met him for the first time at

my New York City event for fourth November. First time. Yeah, So I spoke to him in jail because at that time, you know, when I first went to jail, I was still kind of eating good and I think it was my birthday and we had just got some Peter Lucas and so I was eating exactly and he had, uh, you know, sent me a shout out like next year, Peter Lucas on me for my next you know, my birthday.

It came to year after that. So I had reached out to him and told him, like, I'm doing this event, and he was like, look, I'm just flying in just for that event. So he came in and you know, really supported me. And you know, I send them clips and um, you know, things that's going on with me from time to time, and we never got a chance to sit down and chop it up. But I told him, you know, if there's anything I can help him with, you know, feel free to contact me as well. But

he seems like a real, real good guy. Yeah, and I congratulated him to and on the Good Music Presidency that he got over there, so he got a good situation. So what was that conversation with Kanye at the garden? But we just spoke briefly, so you know, he at tapped me and then you know, thank me for coming, and he was going in to change the um, you know, to go out there. And then I've seen him again, and I just told him how proud I was, you know, said, look, man,

I remember the beginning because Kanye. We would talk for hours and Kanye would be like, eight bigs, how do I keep a million dollars? He said, I keep making money, but I don't know how to keep it, Like, how do I how do you have a million dollars? How do you do it? You know? So me and him would talk for hours about saving money back then. You know, you got some tips for us. Jim Jim Jones always talking about that too, because I had told him about

the last time when the market crash. I was like, Jim, it's gonna be a tough time right now, start saving your money. And he was like, man, you know how much money I lost in the market and this and that big. And it's funny because he just hit me the other day because I had picked Balling too for really Yeah. So I would always listen to his albums and take off records and tell him to do this, And when he had that, I was like, trust me, this is it. Go with that song. So he never

puts out an album unless I listened to it. He just text me two days ago. It's like, I'm sending you songs. I'm about to put out music. I want you to listen to it, but she's not gonna bless the world with the music. If kind of like halfway and halfway out with it, try to put you back here they are. But you know I loved it as that's what it is. Well, I before we go again. In the meantime, fourth of November is the focus. How do we get our hands on this? Man? I want?

Can I get a can we get a deal back? Yeah? Yeah, down, we're gonna move. We need that baby. Yeah is hot? Yeah, look at that handil But yeah, a little discount of least big friends and family right there. Yeah, you could get us online e commerce and yeah, yeah, you got a fourth in November Calm and we got um well we got limited product on there. I mean selling out so fast, but food action too, So we're in foot Action stores and in June we'll be going into Macy's

as well. So how mans are you? Are you with it? Like you pick all the designs or I don't? Um, I know they have they have a lot of design um go. We have a great designer guy named Carlos, great guy and this was his vision. That was actually his parents that you know why he named it fourth in November. But um yeah, I would help with it, so manbe some things I might add to it to take away, but you know, the idea and everything comes from him and um and Ray do to This is dope.

November Biggs Man Big, the longest interview Big has never done. Thank you Complex next Yeah now, Bigs, we really appreciate it. Man, thank you so much. That's a good right. Our podcast septeen t th years at Year Year Unit Union