Rap Radar Rewind: Dave

Boys after Man. He does it all Man wraps, he says, I mean, come on and man, so rainy day in l A. Man, we're gonna sit down on London's own man, Dave Man on your rapp Right Up podcasts, Sir, send me the location this year about vacation like catching train taking trying to get with this man for a minute now. He's hot out and wrapper in l A today, Dave, what's up? Respect? You can't call him sut time. That's what the girls call him. Is that the origin? I

didn't notice the Santan origin. That that's that's part of that. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's what I going. Cool as you got home still goes boys. I thought I was just yeah, that's to tend it onto that you. Yeah, that means that's the home tip. If somebody call you that, that means they kind of really know you. Yeah, that one's

gonna know you. With this album and Psycho Drama. How how proud of you like that you've seen, like you've conquered, like you know, for a British artist to really make it, make this impact into the American audience, like it's you know, I've seen it one of the most critical acclaimed albums of a year. Like what do you make of all the reactions to Psycho Drama? It's hard to tell people, I guess fully think because you don't you know, being in London a lot of the time, you don't really

get to shore I got staying on the tour. Yeah it's good. You got to feel a bit more, whether it's connected in certain places or not. Yes, a lot of people have shown love for it, and I guess appreciating great for what you know, just gonna keep just gonna keep pushing on. I don't really know, I got yeah, I can't. If it's not you know, online, then how do you what's the impact? How do you gauge it? I can't really get to you understand. I think if

you're in another place a lot. If I was here a lot and I was this is my first time in the day this year, you know, if I was in New York and or you know, Houston, I don't know where it is, and I felt like, you know, do you feel it in the hometown and London? Do you feel like, oh, I really delivered because you know, this was anticipated. There's a couple of EPs. This is like you know, the heraldd like debut album, right, like,

so there's a lot of hype on that. There's a lot of outside pressures like, so the at least in the hometown, do you feel like you delivered to especially to your family. Yeah, I guess so. In London, there's definitely been a master you know, shifting the amount of I guess attention that whole operation is bringing this year. I think that, you know, people have definitely taken album very well. The people that I see it's it's you

know what, it's what they reference. I definitely feel like in my career, I'm living in the present, which is good because you know, sometimes you can drop an album, but people know you for the mixtape you dropped before it or the mixtape you dropped on whatever two years ago, three years ago. But everything feels very current. It's all about the songs that are this year now on the project.

So yes, it's definitely been a reaction that I guess I would have dreamed for, um, especially in London, but I'm there all the time, so I can I can feel it. You say you described his album as what it's like to be black in South London for someone

that doesn't have a passport. What does that mean? Yeah, I guess yes, there's a lot of different phases to the album and I think you know that quote might have been about one track in particular, in singularity, I think the track throughout ours there's lyrics, whore reference, you know, the the highest, the lows, that that type of thing.

What it's like being the musician, being young, being black, you know, the verge of success, still being close to all the things that you grew up in and around. And I think it is, it's it's, it's it's different. It would take you know, hours to to fully explain. I guess what the black South London experiences, Especially where I'm just one person from one background, there's probably a man different experience for another guy that's living in a

different end, you know. But there was one line that you had. I think we could probably relate it to America. Like the idea that you said black is growing up around your family and making it then being forced to leave the place you love because it's hating it, you know. I know from the American perspective, we can relate to that.

Like so many times, like you make it out your community and then you know, don't you don't feel the love the same way, and you almost have to get yourself out of that community and then eventually your family

out of that community. Yeah. I think, you know, the just being black in in general, because of all the things that um black people have gone through over the years, is so complex, and I think that is definitely one of the strange of things that I was encountering being on you know, the cusp of everything that that are people that you know are for the most part, people are genuinely happy if you want the best and such.

But you know, what it takes is that one percent of people that aren't, you know, to to throw everything into into disarray. And I think that in the communities that we have in the communities that we that we create for ourselves. Um. I don't know exactly what it is, but I guess there are some individuals that would look at your success and with rather talk about the reasons that you shouldn't be the things that are wrong with it,

then the things that are right with it. And I think that that breads a dangerous sort of combined to stay in, especially where the things that we're coming from our soul um in some communities, I guess harsh, you know. Um, I don't know any of all that sort of thing where that's the thing, like any other culture background per

se where that is. And I'm not saying that hates don't exist in every walk of life, you know, but I guess the extent to um in which being black is, you know, like that inspired that song, I really tackled that. The whole subject matter of black is one of the most powerful songs on the album. And then it was one of the lead singles right of the project. Yeah, it was the first try to be put out and I think, um, I was a rishion. I was originally listening to Kendrick the Mark and then there was a

song blood But it's not even a song. It's just like the intro I wrote it to the instrumental for Blood, and I think there was, you know, coming a time where it was important to just say something on the album, to say something that, um, it was bigger than me because a lot of it is very intrinsic, and even though it's track free was one of the last tracks to be written, and a lot of albums about myself, I think it was about just making something extrinsic, speaking

for myself but for everyone else, and using my experience or what it's like with being black to tackle the wider issues in and around the community. And I think that yeah, there's there's a lot of different inspirations behind it.

I think speaking to some friends that I have, you know, state side, the different struggles that they have, I guess with um being black, the somewhat loss of identity being you know, African American and not exactly know you're direct past and your history because of the things that you know, African American people are faced and a lot of the dark stuff that had happened there and just like actually

thinking about what those things would do the effects of that. UM, the division in black community was like a big inspiration behind it as well, because a lot of the time I see people arguing about, you know, this black and that black or this black is like and you know, he you know what I'm saying, like black people and this, but she's got a better chance of this because she's black, but she's not like this black and your black is this black and that black and such and such, and yeah,

he liked that black, but it's just too light. Also, like how you play with saying it's it's a sour flavor and it's a sweet flavor, like you play on both sides of it. Yeah, because because it's a super black, you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. And I think the parts of it that make it taft, that make it um so, so you know, I don't know what the exact word is, but yeah, the the darker parts of being black inspired the sweet parts as well.

And you look at you look at just the music, you look at the soul, you look at the foods, you look at the culture, all of these things. I guess like their inception and their birth, where they came from being you know, probably a struggle somewhere down the line, I guess, you know, I'm pretty sure that blues music come from, you know, a place of Yeah, you know

what I'm saying. I think that that, Um, that's why it was towards the end that our referenced it being the sweetest um flavor, because it's like you can't get the sweetness of being black without like the everything that had created. I think that, you know, I wouldn't say that the black experience exists completely inside of our pain, but it's you know, definitely a contribute in fact or to what it is today the landscape with back today.

You know one last thing, I'm black, Uh. I heard when you went released it back on my BBC radio there was people saying they were offended, like quite a little controversy. Ntil some DJs defended and said, you know this song should played. What did you make of all that? Yeah, I think that, you know, it's what I expected. To some extent. The UK outside of London is completely different. Um. You have a few you know places that are you've got your London's bum in Manchester, Bristol or not in

the Needs Suffare with etc. It goes on. You have your sick is where it's like you know, and then when you get into rural areas and whatever that they might not be as familial or accustomed to, you know, the culture of lack vulture, black culture, etc. Just not just black, just different cultures in general. So hearing that, I think they the people that were outraged or whatever it is, just didn't understand. I don't think that they

understood what the point of the song was. I think the black If I say are black is beautiful, Black is accident, that doesn't mean that I'm saying that everything else isn't. It just means that I'm saying that this is and you know, that's just that's just how it is. It's I've never understood why people take offense to me celebrateing and being proud of where or what I'm from,

what I represent. If I, you know, went on the song and I said that everything else is this, yeah, and that that was my thing, and if I was one of those people that done that, then you know, maybe I understand about where I was just celebrating Black Coach. I think that people just heard the first four lines and it just falls. Let me let me start from you know thematically. Did you always have this idea of opening up the album with the therapists and talking about

insecurities and things like that. Yeah. Um, that was something that came together on one of the last days actually, like placing all the words and getting a dialogue and playing together. But it was always one of the driving forces behind the album because it was just like I just didn't want to just have a collection of tracks. I wanted to have a narrative somewhat self discovery. And I think if you listen to the album as eleven separate tracks and then you listen to it as a whole,

it's just two completely different things. The tracks are meant to be aware of each other. No, Trap four is meant to lead onto track five, and they're meant to you know that meant they're meant to, yeah, live in the same world and get each other. And I referenced other songs and songs, so it's not I guess one of them ums, that's just independently. I think I wanted

to have a concept in the narrative. I still have something that on its own could achieve some level commercial How do you look at people haven't heard of the concept? What is the concept and story that you are telling? Because I feel like it's more as much about you

as also your brother. Right. Yeah. I think that everything that a brother had gone through and that everything around the situation of brought what was required with him to do where he was in a place called Grendon was self discovery and looking back at what made you do the things that you've done, who are, why you are that way? And I think that I just decided to go on my own journey doing the same thing as to what made me who I am, just a bit

more self discovery. And I think that that in doing that, I learned about myself while writing out, while hearing it, while creating it, um and Yeah, that was the basic driving force the concept behind album, just to learn about myself. And I think for other people that are listening, if you could listen to me learning about myself, maybe learn something about yourself. Yeah, that would have been being a

successful trying to make people feel out. It's okay to go out and question yourself, what you do, how you come to the place that you are. You know, I feel like this when I wake up UM twenty seven, for example, I'm thirty one, I'm forty five. I feel as if my life has gone like this and like this, These are the things that led up to this moment in my life. This is how I could potentially change it. This is where I want to be, This is where

I want to go. I think that journey I had for fifty five minutes or whatever the running time and the album was is what my use of growing up, between the ages or whatever it was. It tough being so vulnerable on the records because you're putting out a lot of family business in you know, showing a lot

of vulnerability. Yeah, to some extent, it was hard too to vocalize, but I had to, you know, I had to let myself know if if I'm writing and it doesn't feel as if I'm pushing it, or if it doesn't feel as if this is controversial, because if I might get in trouble for saying this, then I don't think I'm pushing it enough. I'm challenge yourself that way

as a writer. Yeah, I know if I've said something, whether it's whether it's good, because I'll have to ask someone that i'm wave but also one of my friends of family, and say, do you think it's too much for me to say? If you think it's too much, and when you're pushing yourself, and those are the lines that you're crossing or not crossing, whether it's family business, whether it's your own personal life, whether it's what you're saying,

the way that you think and feel. If you know that, yeah, I've got this feeling of I'm taking it for at least you're you're pushing the envelope because you can. You can be safe. It's it's pretty easy to be safe in the wrappers and just be m Yeah, you can going in a boof and rap about whatever it is clean sixteen together. But yeah, I think what is more like rewarding is hearing something and then listening back to a verse and thinking, oh, that's actually how I feel.

That's crazy. So you know, it's it's a it's a weird it's a weird feeling. I felt that when I listened to draw. You said you lost study grand over

your family. Yeah, like that's based off a real experience. Yeah, that whole that whole verse, that whole section, yes, real um, And I remember writing it and thinking, ah, I don't know how I'm going to explain this to everyone that I've just said this, But I think because it was happening, what had happened so close to the time was at the time, I just didn't know how to say anything else.

With with family, certain things come out, certain things don't come out, you know, and you get oh, you fight, you go through whatever it is. But my responsibility at that time was to say for the world everything that was going on with me inside me and holding back one point or holding back some stuff that is such an important part of the way that I'm talking. That's

just nuts, do you know what I'm saying? To do that and to make an album for however long you're working on a seven eight, nine months straight a year, and then you're coming up to the final hurdle. You're writing an outro, and this is how you're feeling, you're really feeling this way. You can write for four minutes and you can just take out a line and not tell the world, or you can just go all away and leave order. I thought I would have looked back on it five six years in the future. I might

not have remembered what was going on. I might have, but I probably would have regretted not vocalizing how I felt any given point. Because now, at least from five we can look back at his fami and sit down and laugh and say, yeah, this happened or that happened

or not. I don't know, but at least I would have said it would have been there on having like your older brother incrocerated, Like it's like you've and and the other brother wasn't crocerated to like someb you had to become the man of the house in a sense of the provider in a sense, like what was that transition like for you? I was just making music and then now everything just started happening. Really, It's just it's a weird transitional. You're just making music just rapingly, just

singing and whatever a sudden, what's going well? And then just time just slides. I wasn't sitting down and thinking, oh yeah like this, yeah, this is yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, reminds me like the ovo in your chest. Like I feel like the first time a lot of us folks recognize you was when you had to record Want to Know, and all of a sudden Drake jumped on that record. Like looking back at that now,

like how pivotal was that to your career? And what was that moment like when he just added this verse to the record and so it took off. It was it was crazy. I can't It was one of the craziest things ever. That felt so aiding, and you know, he's worldwide Wroun superstar, one of the greatest ever to do it. And I think for a long time it didn't even feel real. I felt I won the lottery. It was a mad way. I remember back sitting down and songs not out yet. You don't I didn't know

music to any real level. The business side. I didn't know anything. But it just feels that I'm not necessarily crazy lucky person. I wouldn't go into the class and be the guy that won a raffle. I wouldn't like, you know, I was getting a crazy lucky person. But we weren't music that was happening in the UK. There's a lot of good songs at the time. By the way,

there's a lot of music. But for that song to just be chosen at random, I felt like, yeah, I won the lot That was the luckiest I've ever felt in my entire life. Just how have you stumbled and how have you heard? It? Didn't understand? Didn't give you more confidence that I can I can really make it in this music business and I have to continue making music. I can't just like disappear. The bay stuff, UM weird sort of this. You never know what to expect, you think,

and just sitting down before the song's out. This song is about to come out. I know this is going to come out, but I don't know exactly what it's gonna sound like because I haven't heard it. I just hope that sounds that sounds interesting. I know it's gonna sound good because it's straight. I don't know what. I don't know what he's gonna do. Is he's just gonna use the beat. Am I going to be in the background doing harmonies? Like I don't. I don't know what

happens next. Am I ever going to have to work again? I'm like, I'm sitting down thinking to myself like like you know, I could have been online looking for Lamborghinis or whatever. I'm I'm sitting down thinking that I've gone absolutely because in my head like at that time, while I was so, I think I just turned eighteen, all I've seen is, um, you see you seem in sixteen

the year is the American rappers. They looked crazy, crazy, crazy, rich and crazy distance not saying that they don't look crazy rich now, but you would look an American wrapper and think what it is the you can't Yeah, and you know, obviously Drake's Canadian, but he dominates the the American. Yeah. So I didn't actually understand the mechanics of everything until later on years later, and I realized that, Okay, like this is how this works and that and like streaming

is just coming into playing. It was a real transitional time for music in general. So those years were super duper interesting. But it just gave me a massive, massive, massive headstock. And you know, can't be grateful enough to to two to him and the team for the way that they've handled that song and everything afterwards and looked out for us. Doesn't like you maintain a great relationship, but you remained independence like you signed with overall, are

you still you're an independent force? But there's obviously still that mutual respect as Piers, Yeah, of course. And um, I think with everything, I didn't know myself yet as a musician what I was gonna pip out sound, that I was gonna make what I represented, And I think that I just even now still need a bit of time to find that out and to to work out what I'm bringing to the table, who I'm eye as

a musician. But yeah, their whole entire movement from from the music too, to the clothing, to the people behind the radio too, what they're doing and film and television. And I respect Supergrouper highly, you know, I watch out you know the amazing people, because it seems like Drake's Coaston obviously changes everything. But for some reason, I feel like a shift came about when the Hangman dropped, Like that's my favorite record for you and even the video.

For some reason, it's simple was you and your friends, but it resonates with a lot of people. Is it about that record that you feel like people funk with? I think Hangman was. It's definitely one of, you know, my most important songs coming at the time that it

came out. And it was a big um shift because I spoke to Um a few of my friends at the time the video and we were just we were just really really focused on making sure that we delivered the right things two the people with with everything in Hangman, from the instrumentation to the words, to the video, the entire experience that you get when you hear what I'm saying, and I think, like you mentioned the video, everything is important if I've got the lyrics at Hangman, we have

a polished video in the studio somewhere in the countryside, and it looks clean and it looks expensive. The words don't resonate the same way if I do it outside of my my area, or if I if it's if my friends aren't with me in a single, and it doesn't resonate the same way. Because everything that I'm saying is it's an experience and it's for some people. You have to understand and see that we're here inside of this as I'm saying to you. The message is coming

live and direct from the source in the center. And I think at the time, with a lot of the things that going on around me and around the music and the way that people are speaking, I think people forget No Hangman, I was what so I'm twenty But whether at me, I'm I'm wrapping this in music view or and whatever. But that's our home. We're living in Struttum and this is what I'm talking about, and this is what I'm saying. But it's it's just the reality that you can see it it's not. It's not strange

where where we're here. Look, here's the video filming. You say, like London is cursed, the city has got a problem, like if a person has never been there, Like, what do you mean by that? It's it's upside down at places and at times, and it's very easy to get drawn out, to get put into situations or put into circumstances that you shouldn't be in London asn't can imagine it is anywhere here, you know, parts of whatever state you go to in America, that's I guess the universal thing.

But London in particular, the city in the UK. I was just talking from my experience or you know, it can go left so quick and and in that time, in that period of time, finding ourselves in more situations and more things that would have inspired lyrics like that than usual. So I think that me just commentating about what was going on at the time. I just said, you know, London's because because entry over entry point, it doesn't take much for things to get heated, for things

to escalate, you know. Um, but you also have this song Psycho Drama straight and dedicated to your hometown. What is it like over there? Like excuse and I will say, um, yes it Stratums. It's an interesting one. It's it's a it's a pretty big area, but it's pretty small at the same time. Um, there's some different parts to it. But for the most part, Strutum is it's pretty. It's pretty cool. We call it home. You know, there's there's um.

Like I said, different sections and areas. I wouldn't say Strengtham itself is just one because you can have Stratham Though, Strutham, Common, Stratham Hill Um etc. Main Struttham where the Tesco is and every you know, every one of them might have their own different sections of people that are from from there. And it's one of them places in London where it's some It's on a long road, a twenty three school on a long road, so it's like drive straight through

a lot of people. You're strungthing to get to other areas. But yeah, it was a good place to grow up and yeah, I embracest it's it's good to be able to embrace where you from. I think sometimes for some people in London it's hard because where from a way way of board, if you scream by and you say this is where I'm from and I'm proud that couldn't come with a whole world of problems to your honest um, just insert random area from northeast West London or South London.

You say, I'm from here here, I'm from here, I'm from here. People from in other random place to get ah you yeah, your your mr, your mr this area. But hold on Like so, I think stratum being being able to just be proud of wherever from. You know, there's obviously little different things going on in whatever area, but it's not necessarily one of those areas that sparks outrage the moment that you mentioned in conversation. So yeah,

it's it's home for us. But now that you're like this big fish in a small parker, where's that try? Just like coming out here in America and getting embraced in love. Oh yeah, I'm the New York show in America. I'm I'm a smooth fish and a very very very big point. Listen, I went to the show in New York. A lot of people can't feel that venue or get the crowd rocket like that. Thank you. Um, I appreciares

New York. Stop with things hearing your music that maybe it would be like, you know, just calm and measure and not have the raw rod element of the last show. But I feel like you you still got the crowd jumping on crazy to high. It's high energy. Yeah, I think maybe if you listen to your album Man, I expect that to see this such a level of high

energy at the show. But it's high energy throughout the whole show because I guess for for the stuff in between the albums, a lot of the songs are singles. A lot of the songs are just like and single, And I think that's why the album was. I was okay with it being so much slower, so much diver because I know that in the time needing up of that, I had released so and so and so and so, and after that I've released the songs that are in

the balance is perfectly maintained. But yeah, in that one body of work, that story for the live show, for performance the Man would be the best to just run through fifty five minutes of super deep music in the

show in New York. But it's it's it's very very very strange, you know, coming to America and speaking to people and what we're doing in the sound that we're trying to bring is slowly traveling over and you know, with the right the right people, with the right amount of time put in dedication, I think we can start to change the way that everything is seen and heard.

But it just it requires all of those things. That requires, you know, the best music, people that are willing to come over to tour, people that are willing to to embring as different audiences to try new things. And I was gonna go to your point, like, why do you think it's been so hard for UK artists to break here in America? A lot of UK artists can't get visas. Um so um. I don't want to say anything of the American government before I get mine with votes, but

was welcome, thank you. So a lot of British artists can't get visas. It's tough for them. Um. And then the artists that can get visas, oh, it's that do you know have the ability to travelers. It's as if you know, there's a lot of unfinished business with people in the UK. The UK is a massive market for people in the UK. They want to conquer it, you know, like Kane All said an interview the other day, a

lot of people don't necessarily look at America. I think this is something that I aspire to conqueror or whatever. Because you think it's an action like that. I think some people might not think it's possible. Some people might not really care at this point in time as to whether it is possible or not, because it requires a lot of it's pretty it's a it's a big headache.

I guess when you if you're someone that is doing whatever at a certain level and you're from you could be from anywhere the UK, France, Spain, and you're up here and you're doing you know whatever it is to a high level in your city and you have to go somewhere else and you're no one again, But like you were no one two years ago where you were and that that didn't feel too good. But now you're someone like you don't want a lot of people don't

want to be known again. And I understand it because you're working on whatever it is that you've got here. You've gotta in your head, you've got to keep up with being someone where you are. You want to be a bigger someone. You know, why about the fact that you're knowing somewhere else and you know growing everywhere at the same time for me is vital. I think that

that is super duper important. So when we're touring America and I'm getting messages and people are saying, you know, come to Atlanta or come to Houston, and people care enough the message and just send the DM and say, on your next tour, make sure that you add San Francisco, or on your next tour, make sure you add Chicago. Or why do you always go to Toronto and never

Vancouver or come to Montreal. I see it all, and I think if there's people out there, I know it's like too to want to to ride for someone else's music and tell the people around you listen to so and so, listen to this, listen to that, But they're never there or they don't give you the tools to

back up. And I think if there is people that are trying to spread the music and spread the movement and what it is that we're doing, it's only right I'll go to the cities and give them the chance to see me live, the chance to bring their friends, a chance to have a good night. And that's what the touring and the show is all about, just maintaining that growth and and just keeping it going because yes, it's it's it's tough down here. It's a continent. It is,

it is a continent. You do, man, it's a sneaking Some turn up on the album like location with Burning Boy, Like how did you find that balance? And how is it fun when you get to make a record like that amongst all the heavy subject matter. Yeah, it's a strange run because that track, it was just it was always an idea and I never created that type of thing and thought this is an album like such. It was for a while we were looking for a song

and a single for the album. I was going to sessions and trying to create a single, but that song was just that in a different form. And I'm worked and we producer with J five. Um it's very, very very interesting just the way that the song came about. Um Jay and I were freestyling on some chords. Um put some chords down and Burnaboy just freestyle his whole part instantly that he was It did not take that man long at all, five fifteen minutes like he was

just I don't know how he'd done it. I'm still in the shot amazed from how quick that process was for him that his part of the song was done, and then we just had a template for a beat, and then Jas just said, yeah, I'm gonna take this away and gonna work on it, and he did, and I just wrote a verse because I had two verses of rhythm. You they were kind of deeper, and the song was a bit deeper, as you could tell from

Burner Boys hook. It's still somewhat dark, like my Dog's in probation and I was down back and headed to the top right now. The instrumentation was kind of different. It was a different vibe. And then yeah, I had two verses. They were deep, and I remember playing them to people and they were like, yeah, the song's got potential. And I said, you know, what do you guys think My manager said, he doesn't act. He thinks that I could do a better first verse. I can contextualize it.

Medio over there, it was Benny Finny, challenge you to contextualize it. My brother I was I was looking, I was thinking, like what does that mean? Like what is that? Said? Oh, yeah, you can contextualize your versity more so. I never originally the first verse never started like our send me a location. I was like the sick verse that I had written. Then yeah, he's like contextualized. I was like, all right, cool, funky, I'm gonna contextualize all the way. I was just like

send me the location. You know when when you get one of them questions and essay and you have to like re like repackage the question in your essay or like in the interview. A song would be like a so how do you feel this morning? And you'll get like soul I feel this morning, and you have to like say what the finger said before. That's why I done with the first verse, was just sending at It took a long time to get through the Leslie track

Man six verses eleven minutes. That took me a while, Like the storylines so intricate, it's like six verses, Like that's just that's like his own album. Can you explain Leslie? Yeah? With that track, there was a story that I had that I wanted to get to and it was a story that I wanted to tell, and I wanted to

tell two stories. But the second part of the story where Rue was singing um and she's talking about a child about names such, it was the first part I had, and then it was about telling that, you know, the story that's true enough and accurate enough to what is that I'm speaking about to really give that second part of the story the context that I needed while also telling the song. So with a Child about a Name, just the second part of the song, just what it's

split into, where, um, who I was talking about? I guess, miscarriage and a loss of a child, etc. There was a whole bunch of negatives that she was like, paradoxes, That's what That's what it was all about. Basically paradoxes. Um, that stuff that feels impossible or feels like it shouldn't be you know. Um, they used to study philosophy and they had that that triangle, you know, the triangle, that palace using their logo, or the staircase. I can't remember

what the staircase is called. You know the staircase. They had an inception where you go around the staircase in

the square. Um. That was stuff like that was the inspiration behind the imagery for the Child about Name, just describing how wrong the feeling is of you know, using I guess the child before it happens to this character and tell him the stories a story that led up to that that then, I guess if you fully understood the song, made the end of the song as powerful as it could be while also telling his own story about domestic violence, and I guess more so than domestic violence,

the loss of character that stuff like that brings the emotional trauma. I think that that's why someone says that, wow, why did it take eleven minutes? Why is the song so long? I think fitting in the normal story arc of a film, like beginning, middle, problem, resolution and that that is okay, yeah, cool, might take you four minutes, might take you three minutes, depending on the tempo of

the song. But adding the layers of like you said, I guess, intricacy and telling stories within stories given easter eggs, giving you things that I guess towards the end of the song make you think I should have known this from the start, and the kind of pops up yeah, just just yeah. I guess doing all of those things that make the story feel like you've heard something that

is completely cohesive was definitely the challenge. And you can imagine in an eleven minute story where you're rapping for every line, there could be plot holes, there can be this, there can be that and just going through every single one and making sure it's like a riddle. It's like

one of them weirdle games. You say something and then you explain it, and you're saying, oh, yeah, this, But then what you're saying three minutes down the line, why has someone done this when two minutes ago they were here, and why you have to then explain this situation three

minutes earlier into the song. So when you do explain it at seven minutes so for it doesn't feel like you've just randomly thrown this in for the sake and like all of that stuff, and obviously the story being you know, based on true events and the true story in drama, it does give me enough of a basis to be able to not be struggling with just fabricating, you know, just eleven minutes worth of the story, but also changing enough and like being respectful to enough to

the situation to use my creative license to deliver it to the people and the way that it is. Um yeah, that's why it was super Yea. We get a visual for that. We've been planning. We've been planning the visual. I've been planning to do something. Um but I just keep getting so so cool, keep coming in man visuals on type. Oh yes, yes, alright to your character marked the top boy, how did that role given come about? As moody um, dearly offender, crazy east ender, you know,

shout out to j Hu. That's a that's a Jay hustler. I don't know if you guys listened to jam Yeah, yeah, so that's the disaster. Yeah. That was one of lyrics from one of his unreleased songs that I would listening to a lot when I was filming. It just sounds like something that my character would say, Yeah, I am

our audition. They asked me to audition for a different role, audition than a gut audition for that role I did get because the world of acting, just like any other world football, music, white would seem to someone that's outside of it. It felt so miserable our audition. I don't know if I did good. I don't know if I did bad. I didn't know why I got the cool what was you know? When they're saying, yeah you got the role, you guys being serious? Am I just making

a cameo? And like an extra? Is this? I didn't really get um For a long time. I was you know, massively grateful for the opportunity. But I guess because I was coming from a musical position and standpoint and top one, it was obviously so big. I didn't really feel like I belonged there because I don't know. Um, it's hard to explain. You're just not imagine you're sitting at read through you know Kno's actual use and you know actually

might be because you're in a marathon. Michael Wards that everyone the series and actors and you, I know, looking at these guys, you yeah, that you guys are meant to be here. Yeah, you guys are meant to be hire other actors. I don't know if I don't even know if you act. Do you know what I'm saying? Did you prepare for the role? Because you killed it?

Thank you? Taking that into consideration and obviously having that on my shoulder, not and and being nervous feeding as if I don't want to let the people that are watching me down. I tried to just get into the mind of a character I met with, a character he was based on, and as thought, I'm going to take it very very far left from what my character was based on. What they wanted to play I'm gonna put elements myself in there, but just take it really left

and not do the the goal to thing. Because at first me and rainald Or, who was the director the first couple of episode, the first few, he said, just try and come a bit different, maybe get a bit of a distinctive look to you, such and such. So I went trying to get long hair, braids and the thing, but someone else and the thing already had graids and taking over the type grades. So when I got to there on the first day of set, I remember taking

off the hair that I just spent a day putting on. UM. But that's like how I was that down to just go and just completely changed my image. And when that was going and I was back to my normal short hair which I have underneath this happen, I just knew not everyone that is crazy or super duper dangerous is um supernatural, Bravardo, etc. A lot of the time had a high pitched streaked his voice. He was kind of young, more so annoying. I think he was an asshole, but

you like him, you wanted to stay on screen. Yeah, he he was annoying, but in a way that was kind of addictive to watch because there weren't really many characters like that. And the more that you see other people acting, the more that you see other people and set then what their characters bringing to the table, the more that you know, I want my character to be

this guy. I don't want to be, you know, some clone of a guy that already exists on the show and he's here for you know, ten twenty minutes each episode. I don't want to just do something that someone else has done. So I definitely tried to make him a bit softer in terms of he's still a villain, but yeah, he's kind of articulate, kind of got a higher pitched voice. If he wasn't in a life of crime, he could probably be, you know, doing a pretty decent job. He

could be in law, someone in a room for him. Though, despite being the bad guy, like and when you got killed in it, I was like, ah, yeah, it was. It sucks because he was like a character you wanted to keep seeing reoccurring, like yeah, and I think I didn't even as a character get into my strife. It also seems like it's part of your real life because the way you were brought up, you know, you were

close to your mom. She kind of shielded you away from the streets, Like what do you think of everything that's going on with your career and success. Yeah, my mom. My mom's you know, super duper happy. She's I guess we're all just greatful for for what is going on at this current point in time. She's old, man. I just try and make sure that I keep doing what I can. I keep focused on, just stay out of style of anything that I don't need to be in. Listening to my mom because she's she's right a lot

of the time. But this is something that she might have imagine when she wrote the book of My life before I was born and said that this is the life that I was gonna leave. But I'm it's just it's just how the cookie crumbles Sometimes. Sometimes you just have to sit down and say, I've got three children, and one of them is just like the creative guy that doesn't have any attention towards things are um not

involving the arts, that type of thing. And you know, I wasn't an athlete, I'm just a music I'm just I'm just yeah, thank you, that was the one you brought on stage right when I take it you seemed like an emotional moment for you. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I always say, I guess because that award in particular, Uh, it meant so much to everyone. That's why it further meant more to me. Because when you're doing something and

it's the first time for you, it's one thing. But when it's the first time for everyone, um, it's definitely big. My team, friends, family, and my managements that this is our first nomination together, this this is it's at the same time for all of us. Is it's a proud moment for all of us, and it's good to know that you know, something that we've all put so much time into can be rewarding for for all of us.

My mom was always pushing and she was obsessed with up what I used to think, Oh, she wanted you to get that specifical war. Yeah. She she had this conspiracy theory. She had this she had this theory. They love of conspiracy. My mom was always telling me, make sure you get my tickets, make sure you're my tickets.

I'm gonna get your tickets money like I've gotten. I was telling that, of course, and in my head, of course, my mom's gonna be a when when she came, she was dressed up and she was ready and she was excited for the moment. We're all nervous. I was very nervous. I felt sick. And yeah, they just announced it. Remember, was just like mad loud instant. That was that he said, Dave knows that it's like someone through a flashbang the

grenade or something. That just a lot of shouting and then I was under a lot of people's arms and I was getting pushed and then boom, I was just on stage. I was just giving a speech. And then my mom was just on stage. My mom just took the award, showed up John's in Jack's house. Has mom started working yet? Um? Do you know what my mom? My mom just works because I don't want doing it that she likes to work. I think without the work that my mom does, especially because she's given back to

the community in the work she does. Um, I don't know what one if I didn't. Money is just one of those weird things. But even if you did have all the money in the world, you could have retired. You'd find something to do every day. Some people working and stuff. If I could just quit right now, I just quit I don't think that my mom looks at it that way. There's certain jobs that my mom's quit. My mom doesn't work all the jobs that she used to work. Um, if you're doing what you like to do.

And I think there's one job that she's works and she you know, close to our clients, and that time she I think she she enjoys it. I don't. I tell her, I don't think you need to work. But she's she's she um, she's still looking at and she's being a mom. She happily turning around. I need the house, and she say like, oh, do you need if you need any money, and she gave me a five pound note or a tempound not as you know, like you're living,

you're living in the past. But I'm going to take this five pound not because I have no money, and yeah I have. So it's it's yeah, it's a good dynamic. But my mom lives, you know, superdu the humble. She doesn't live beyond her means. And I try and encourage her to, you know, doing more, if you want to take a holiday, if you want to get this bad. But I don't think she's very materialistic. She always says that you know, I don't go out and get the

balance argus and where she pronounced but um. At the same time, though, I think my mom does love it secretly because you know, when she was on stage and when my mom backs when she when she's taking pictures, like my mom, you know understand like I might go somewhere and my mom has been there before me, and I would have heard through the grape behind my mom's gone around and told everyone like, yeah, my son does desk for that. And it's good to know that she's

just proud. I guess that she's that she feels like we're doing something good at our family is here and went on for good. This is a positive impact I'm making. I think that that is I guess every parent's dream, African parents especially, they just want some into to you know, yeah, just staying strong man. One of the look before we get out here. One of the lines I thought was strong and the two we said I fell in love with optimism. Yeah when inspired that when you DeLine my

relationship with emotions is what I was h describing. And I think, weirdly, even though emotions are the building blocks of relationships, your relationships with your emotions or what keep everything in tone. So stuff like regret m your relationship with a feeling of regret, you could be someone that is. You know, the other day my brother said that, you know,

sometimes my mom can be pro stressed. Being pro stressed doesn't mean that you like being stressed out, It's just it is something that allows itself you're allowed to perpetuate. I think being someone that's like pro regret as someone that likes living in the past or likes being a great bard that you you don't enjoy it, you don't necessarily like, but that's it's kind of like what you do.

And when I said yeah, I fell in love with optimism, I think I just meant I became someone that that was my goal to feeling emotion, being optimistic, being bright, looking forward, that being a positive energy to be around. Because when I'm when i'm when when I'm a negative energy, when I'm when i'm sad, when i'm quiet, bring everything down. I think that you'll know that it's very it's very difficult to be happy in a room where I'm sad. It's just weird. Some people can do that, but I

had to get out of that and try. And even days where I wasn't feeling necessarily like that. Just be right and outward. And as you can probably tell that, I talk a lot, so yeah, that was that was just yeah, yeah, it's yourself. Yeah. See. One of my favorite lines is on the cycle you say you learned you can judge a nigger by the woman he curves. I like that. I like that. It's it's it's um. You know where did that clan come from? Here? Drew

me out? I can't remember who drew me out? Yeah, it's true, or that singles yeah right now, as as as I filmed this, and as I record this, you know what I'm saying. As Yeah, as I record this, I am it's um. It's technical. But I I think and the same thing with Gold the guys that you the guys that you've spoken to when the judge you on that, the guys that you've not spoken to. No, I think it's the reverse. No, no, no, I think

it's I think it's the reverse. For those. I think it's the reverse because like some girls, you'll speak to them and they'll be like, oh, so and so is in my d M, but are curved him such as such? And you look at her X and you'll be doing a master you're thinking now, but this isn't you know

what I'm saying that this doesn't make no sense. But as a boy, huh, if you're doing the right things and you're just not like you know what I'm saying, just just sucking anything that's just moving and walking in such as such, and you've got standards, you're class, you know what I'm saying. You've learned something to stand and stuff. And that's what I'm trying to be. I'm trying to try in all that aspects of your life, trying to

stave himself acting, music, personal life, personal life. I'm trying to I'm trying to be smooth, you know what I'm saying. I think that um Goes goes sometimes in London. Yeah, they speak to my name, but they put that they don't put enough respect to my name said because for music from I'm mad reserved. You know what I'm saying that I'm mad like it. It's like my rule, like

don't dm girls. Don't you know what I'm saying that maybe one or two once in a blue moon, like way back in the parts life, but for the most part that was never mean. So I had to set the record straight, Like you know what I'm saying that the women that I curve see you know the pros as you put it, almost as a regular guy. Still

in terms of how you deal with the ladies. Yeah, I think it's worse because when you're a musician, you it's not saying it because you could just things could just go mad wrong things to me, you on your on your mind. I think if you are thinking, if you're not thinking, I just can't do whatever you want.

But if you are thinking, things can go wrong. Because girls, if you're just fucking girls left right and something right, you can end up with like mad child support, like mad like mad baby moms that you don't speak to and such or just like broken relationships that stuff like that if you're not and you're doing too much and you speaking that soul and then that's just one side of it. Obviously American, it's madden here, Like I'm sure back you guys, like some crazy crazy things going on here.

You know, you sleep with you sleep with a woman, you wake up drugged, No watch you on TMZ on TMZ, you know, half naked like like Eyeline on you and that, like I don't know Yeah, that's when I listened to music from the South and I listened to the Atlanta City Girls and stuff like. That's like, no, that's the picture that I paint, like, r you go to Atlanta, like go to whatever, go to strike club, sleep will go like you're waking up with no watching, no wallet?

Have I got? Have I got the wrong end of the Is that? Is that a thing? It happens, It happens a lot. Does that happen? That has happened to you? But you're gonna say the right path and I'm confidence man. Amazing work, brother, God, we've got to finally got a chance to sit down. Thank you, Thank you guys. Did you enjoyed this was cool? Of course? Of course we'll check you out in the UK one day. Yeah, whenever you're on the UK Psycle Drama, get that album, man,

it's up, wrap right off podcasts. Yeah,