Rap Radar Rewind: D-Roc

too many interview super exclusively. You know, Tory Lanes didn't have no time to check us to this press run. He left left his hanging. But this is a great consolation, not even a consolation. But I was just thinking too. I was thinking it was Tory Lane supposed to be on the podcast that he couldn't make it, say, canceled on this. I was like, damn, no one's canceled on us during the whole title era of the podcast. And I forgot about d Rock. D Rock canceled on this.

We're trying to launch you with the Rock, and then I tried to run up on the Rock and I forgot what a big guy is and that wasn't good. Um, I think was at a concert. It was at Jake's concert concert coming out the whole rise here there he is the only man that canceled on me like I have me feeling bad and ran into him in l A at Calli's party. Yeah, yeah, that was like y'all got to man, So everybody will know this big he's

right hand man, man, the great d rock man. Beyond that, you know, he wants to get the period where you was executive producing Little Kim albums, Little Sees albums, Like you know, your hand in this business has been you know, we see what you see you with Puff for like twenty years, everything that you do, man, So it's an honor to have you on the podcast. Man, I definitely

appreciate it. And the main thing is Invisible Bully, right, like I've seen you now it's like it's going from a clothing line to now you back in the music scene too. Trying to Visible Bully was just really just a platform for everything. So you know, but yeah, I'm trying.

I'm trying to do what I'll do. Man, we'll explain in Visible Bully that was was that also was an idea early on right, Yeah, Well, Invisible Bully was like actually it was just like a little saying that we used to do, like like we're big eno us and stuff like that. We used to call each other visible bullies, sort of like the underdog looking on. I mean like invisibly represents like an underdog situation and just you know for the fight. You know, just a fight for you

know things. Yeah, you know, just like fighting and we had to fight for everything. So, you know, we came about it. I think it was maybe two thousand and ten, around the time I got out of the can. And then, um, they were doing something Puffs coming to Brooklyn to the lab. Like I don't think he that never like performed or hosts anything in Brooklyn. So we was doing it for an anniversary on Fulton Street. Yeah, so yeah, so that's

what we did. Actually, Like I said, I was just pressing up a couple of T shirts for them and stuff like that, just to give out in the date. And then um, after that night, I was, um, I went to Puss and then he was like yo, a lot of people calling me asking me for them shirts and I was ready over and like I was like what shirts, Like you know what shirts? You're talking about. He was like the drinks we gave out at the party. So I was like, all right, it's like, need you

to get that trademarks. I was like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So like another week went by and he was like, did you do that? Did you do that? So he kind of like you know what I'm saying, and I was like did That's That's how it happened. But then you also took it on the road during the Bad Boy Anniversary tour doing a lot of pop up Yeah, that too started off as just, uh, the two nights at the Barkley we had did like a little pop

up shot. It went well, and then um, we decided to do set off the tour and do it, and then we just it happened like we just kept doing them, like we did the show, pop up shop for every date, you know. I mean it was a lot of work, but it was birthday. It was fun. Actually, Yeah, So what wasn't even something you inspired to do it? Not at all? Yeah, I'm like the least fashion fashion person. Closets dull, but get it into the black brown, but get it into the fashion gif. What did you learn?

Were there any like trial in arrow moments. Um, what I did, what I learned is really such thing as a good tea, Like you gotta have a good argue my wife about this back and every it's hard to good tea and fonts and uh inches from the neck all that stuff like you know, I mean, I don't. I don't really get it to that, to that that part of it. But it's it's it's harder than what people thinking it might look easy because we make it look easy. It's a lot of work to that stuff.

But also so that you guys were in Macy's two at one time, right, yep, we did the Macy's um because we had the bad Boy merch so we did like to know the bad Boy jerseys, the Biggie, the yellow one from the video. And um, we had ourline in there too. So you know it was a good run. All that came after the tour because the toil did well and then um we pushed it in. There was an urban outfits and there's in a few being a

few stores. Because you see like you, we see you a puff a lot you we connect to a puff. What was that process like when you got home? Like to reconnect with puff? And I mean well, he had me from literally from the gate, like from the moment I stepped stepped back in here, he had a car picked me up, Take me to the halfway house, take me to the off this like I'm made history. I'mde halfway house history. What do you mean? Usually when you go to a halfway house, you have to like go

through find a job, this and that data da. So I was like in the halfway house for like forty eight hours when I got a job, came back, you know what I mean, And I just had to wait a while before they let me completely because they challenged that person to get on the job. Connection you have quiet, So it worked out for me. So we've been rocking ever since. So he kind of had me from day

one from there. What's it like to witness like, because I mean, obviously you were you and Big were big building towards this type of level of success, and obviously you see he saw his growth to superstar him. What is it like now to witness with puffs at and the way that the business has changed. I mean, it's it's kind of like we like you know what you don't know, It's like you kind of assume it was

gonna get there. But it's like everything that we I know, everything me and Big would dream about and talk about as far as planning, while us like Puff put it, put it down, and that in that perspective where it's different, like you know, it's different. It's like almost I don't even want to say it like that, but like you get spoiled to to a to a point, it's like then you you know, I can't be mad at the way that I'm living. I can't, you know what I mean.

I put in my work, I paid my due. So but sometimes you saw one video with him, you're saying, this man, I owe you, this man to owe you anything, right, Puffy, Because he gets that level of success, people think that, oh yeah, everybody's supposed to be getting take care of, But everybody has to earn their own damn right. And it's a free country, that's his words, a free country, Like you don't have to be there, you know, like you know, he earned it. That's a person if anybody

earned it, he he earned it. He started off an intern and you know and crew to yeah to to the way he's at today. So but that that experience, like I just missed my passport looked like affiliated. That's what It's crazy. You're doing super Bowl parties and ship in Minnesota this past that was that was that was the first. That was the first we had linked up. That fell in the lot too. We had linked up. They asked us to see if we can get some stuff together. So we did like one of the biggest

Super bowls carts and carti Jeezy Puff Kalid Buster. Um damn well it was started studied. Yeah, how coal was it was freezing a. Minnesota is a different I mean we're in New y'all, so you know it was a different type of coal. That's like a it's the real deal. Call right, you wanted to get your party promoter on, Like what was it? Why did you get I mean actually just with the Super Bowl, I mean next year we're in Atlanta, Like we're doing it for the next

four years. So we got Atlanta, Miami and l A coming up. So really Minnesota was just like the first one where we just put the print in and try to, you know, pull it off. But we pulled it up because people don't really party out there like that, but they came out for us, thank you, you know what I mean. So it all worked out. It worked out. It was super dope. Actually, everybody came through for the kids.

So it with a visible bully, Like is it hard because you see a lot of big merchandise popping up left and right? Is it hard to like to separate yourselves as the official kind of Uh? Yeah, but what I do, Like, I know it sounds crazy to have a clothing line and stuff like that, but I don't want everybody in minds like I don't I don't care like I don't like I slow walk it. It's minds of it. It is what it is like you know that means something to me. So it's like, I know,

I inspired a lot of people. I haven't seen so many T shirt lines and brands since I did that, Like it was crazy, So at least I know, at least I'm doing the right thing. But you know, there are people that in my lane of life that actually get inspired to see that it can actually happen, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah I would. I would

love to get to that. But I mean, mins I'm I'm cool, Like you don't have to wear it, you know, but the ones that do wear it really support it and appreciate it so you know, so it's for like I said, it's for the underdog as for as for us, because at one point Big was getting into Colon with Brooklyn Mann. Yeah, that was part of the plan. That's why I say when I see stuff like even believe it or not even like the down to like the look like we've done this. Probably don't even remember we've

done it, like a sant Oz commercial. A long time. We did a sant Oz commercial and like that was part of our plan, like the clothes, the stuff like that. But you know, we ha did like a Saint Oz mercer. We had the Brooklyn Men stuff, but you know, everything got cut short. That's why I say, coming home and see him, like you know what Puff was doing and stuff like that, that was just like that's living vicariously through him, you know what I mean. So it was

it was. It was nice, but it also plans for a restaurant at one point, right, yeah, send the makers. That ain't over yet. Oh wow, that's not over yet. But let's take it back. I mean, we know you're you're biggiest friends, best friend, you know, but why don't we get to know exactly how you guys connected? Like we see you like on the street corner, like you look the youngest all you're both like seventeen and so and likedlin foods are wrapping on the street corner like

that was yeah that green Bahama shirt. I got a new one thing, I got a new but no, that was um, that was like a little little later, not really later, but like as far as us meeting, I used to go to school with a guy that lived a few doors down from him, and then um, I used always just like see him like we should see each We used to speak like he grew up on St. James between Gates and Fulton, and I grew up on Gates between Bethor and No String, So like my main

street was like his side block. So we would just connect like that, you know. So we had like a lot in commons, no dads around, you know what I'm saying, only child stuff like that, So you know, food, and we got together, Like I said, I met the Chico got Chico introduced me to him and then we just started like every time I go up there, we were

just connect the dots. So I brought him down my way down on Bethford Avenue and then um, we used to be on that corner, you know what I'm saying that with that wasn't even like a battle in sit wation. It would be like, um, the guy keV used to bring his like DJ equipment out on the weekends. They barbecue, do what they need to do and then just have a mic and you know, because he's doing like a busy b type routine and him biggie with bars. That

was that's a mean I didn't know. I knew like I knew he know, but we wasn't really like even right like right then and there. But it wasn't like Okay, we're gonna rap and and and and do what album gonna do is It was just like okay, you know what the wrong but we were still doing what we was doing, like and then people were here, Yeah, people were hearing and being like yo. Like I would always get the like yo, yeah, like you're dude. It's like kind of it's kind of like different, like he's like

it's kind of nice. He's be like yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you know what I mean. Wasn't that not at all? Like Big probably wasn't even probably I know for a fact, like he wasn't like shopping the deal or we were running around with a demo tape that time was more of a natural gift. Yeah, we actually got mad actually the demo tape that uh Maddie c through the midst to see like that whole thing, Like we kind of got mad that we gave out the taket that was

like a ridding the round tape that they don't have step. Yeah, he was like, yo, like where's the tape that we got in the car And he was like, oh no, we gave it to Maris, Like why would you get the tape for you know what I'm saying, like like we d around Ye, it was like why would you get the tape away? Like that's our ship, that's what we ride around and we ride back and forth, you know what I mean? Were you there when you recorded it? Yeah?

Hell yeah? So what to that period? He was saying, because actually there's a documentary I don't you see you got any of you for Biggie the Life and the Toys Big and he put out that Faith in Valada were behind um and we're actually gonna exclusively put it on title starting on Friday. UM. But you were saying that like during that actually been that documentary part that was saying at that point he was just like he would go over fifty grand the DJ's house kind of

for fun. They were just drinking after a good time whatever, and that he just would draw beats on and it was kind of just more of a loose freestop. That's exactly what it was. Just for personal It was just like like personal news. It wasn't even like, Okay, let's do this. Maybe maybe one of them, one of them. The starter says it's a demo because after a while took it a little like, hey, this might be it, Like we can probably you know, roll on out of here.

But during that time, what were you guys listening to? Is it like Kane or a lot of influences. I think he was like Kane special at uh Chubb rock um pe Um, nice and smooth. It was like where we were supposed to be listening to, right like you know what I mean, we were listening to like you know, I probably missing somebody. But that was like a little basics and you were saying with the street stuff and that in actually that documentary you said Big was a

good hustler because people liked him. It wasn't even like some ra like strong people. His personalities what kind of made him a gagings you went to the block and he wasn't there, You just like, yeah, they would look for him. They would ask for him. They him baby face, like baby face Chris stuff like that. So now they would ask really look for him. I wasn't good like That's why. I mean, that's like kind of like that um like the the Tourist movie, like just like you, No,

I wasn't really I ain't had nerves. Actually, I wasn't like a good hustle like that, like you know what I'm saying, Like I was just like bottom line, like my thing is like litten, I'd ever take it before you know what I'm saying that my patients wasn't good to like sit there, stand on the corner to to hand to hand and like you know what I mean. My nerves wasn't right for that stuff. So it's like but they can do it like he he would sit there and charm him and they will come to him.

He would do his thing with that stuff. How much has that neighborhood changed since you guys, well you know kids, please, the most expensive place to live in the world, right, now, no, seriously ready. So I know people living in Wall Street right now, Wall streets are cheaper, but I'm not as different. I mean some of the same, most of the same establishments is there, but it's definitely way different, right, It's

way friend. I was just down there the other day. Actually, the one final thing in that doctor has said that really the birth of Tiana is kind of would change him. And then it was like he wanted to go harder no matter what. You know, that was that the kid had changed his life. Definitely Tiana that did it. It was definitely Tiana. Tiana did. He was just like yo, but that But by then, by the time Tiana was like we was like in it. It was in it, like it was like, okay, this is what we're doing,

Like you know what I'm saying. Like it was like borderline, like it was like a transition leaving that, leaving the street alone and go on this. But it's always that, you know how the game is just like just because you got a video planing on me and you're making money. Somebody was like we were still sitting on the corner and we were watching cars come by and and playing party and bullshit, and it was just like I remember me saying this personally, I'm like, yo, something right, Like

we we we ain't doing something right. There's no way, like we're still standing on this corner and we don't seem about four different cars come through playing the music. Like it's like you know what I'm saying, it's something we're not doing. Like you know, we were still learning it. That's the whole thing. Like that, it was blowing up and learning and at the same time, you know what I mean. So you know, did him get an unsungn hype in the source and have any effect on him?

Like did that mean anything? Yeah? And met the world to him and meant the world to him. We should keep meself. We read that magazine, that that issue so many times. We had it everywhere, right, so you know it definitely meant the sometimes the media. That's good. You gotta think back in those days, the magazine was everything. Yeah people, Yeah, I said, like we would get magazines,

go to magazine stands and grab stuff. Yeah. Did you even when he met because it puff always talks about how he rapped for him and then puffed me right away, Like when you at that meeting, were you downstairs? I was already um taking that charge. Okay, I was already in the missing my part of the successes, which was

word lized in the Torris movie. Even though you were light skin and short, you know, I mean, you ain't gotta mash me up at least fit the description, you know what I mean, he's got a talk guy, that guy. So what was that life from your perspective to go to go through that? Like it was it what we saw in the movie. What's what's the real version of your mind? I mean as far as the whole situation for us getting locked up, and like how did that happened?

And why you decided to make that decision? And did you know at that time that that was like a decision that would help your friend, I mean cultivate his career. I mean, I um, I mean, how can I put it like I would have did it regardless of big was trying to be a fireman or school teacher. I ould like, it wasn't even about the music. While I took the charge like that, it was my friend, Like you know what I mean, So i'ld have did that regardless. That's the type of person I am. If I'm with you,

I'm with you. So but and then on top of that, I mean I was out on bell for a gunch charge already, so you know, it kind of made sense. And then he had just kind of like really got connected to things about to do a deal and you know what I mean. So it's just like yo. And actually it wasn't like he was like go go go. Yeah, yeah, he was like nahs. He was like fuck that don't do that. Shouldn't get you crazy, Like you know what

I mean, We we ain't gotta do that. I was just like yo, But it's just like certain times like it kind of actually it helped me, believe it or not, It saved me because I was loose cannon, you know what I mean, doing like you know, on the road to destruction. So I was just like, yo, just do what you gotta do. And know they didn't take us to no priests and police figure that shot out right there in the streets. They handcuffed us and get y'all

a minute, you know what I mean. And then I was just like yo, and that was it, Like that was like the last time I seen him until I got out, Yeah, you know what I mean. And then um, but I still didn't really came out while you were ye, yeah, yeah, I came home. So how did you know Ready to

Die was like really resonating to um. When I was away, people that was from the neighborhood was coming in like I didn't know he was like as big as like he was like like really getting it like that because I was away and I was like, the key to that is the stage detached yourself from the real world.

I wasn't watching videos. I wasn't watching TV like I would know up and dab and people were coming that was from down the way and be like telling other people like Yota, that's that's that's his man right there, like like that dude right there. They're like, Yo, that's that's that's his friend right there. Like it used to be like yo, like you know, just chill like chill like that. So I'll go dave room, catch a little

video or two. Then you got some of the guys coming through with the negative ship like yoh, big ain't gonna mess with you, and you getting home like like you took that charge for nothing, like you know, U was an asshole. He ain't remember you this and that that. But I was still plugged into you know, to what mattered in the streets, so you know what I mean, they were just like it was hard, like I said, he was learning it. He was learned. Then you got

a bunch of new people coming at you. Nobody really can trust people, you know what I mean, and you're blown up. So I didn't really know to what degree it was, but I knew things have changed, like you know what I'm saying, until like you know, like even down to to him getting married. When I was speaking him on the phone, he would be like, wifey. I

just stort. He made wifey Like you know what I'm saying, Like I didn't know you actually got married, Like you know what I'm saying, Like I didn't like I was out of tune and stuff like that. And I remember me maybe having like two weeks before I was coming home,

so I was like always calling. I was like, yo, man, you gotta send me some clothes like I like, because if not, I'm like, I'm gonna come home and it's my fucking trench coat, Like they give you like a beige trench coat with some hard blue jeans and conversus. I'm like, I can't come home like that out of that He's like, I got you. I got you. So the day comes, the morning comes for me to go home. They don't call me for no package. Everybody's a few

dudes going home with me. They're getting dressed and stuff like that. So I'm sitting there underwear and stuff like looking at the you know, the beige stuff, you know. I mean, I'm like, something, I really gotta put this sh on. Then one of the CEOs and the I was like, hey, yo, but look like you're not gonna get your stuff. So I'm like, yo, stop playing like you know what I mean. I'm like, I know, I

ain't got nothing there. So I didn't call me. It had came that morning, so I was like, oh, sure, you know I got I got my little black chuckers you know what I mean, black cash jeans, right, you know. And then I had this was like a colorful sweater, like you know what I'm saying. I didn't really like the sweater, so I was like, you know what, I ain't gonna put it on, so boom. So then I got a plane ticket. So now I'm like kind of

laughing at the other dudes. Now I'm like, now you gotta sit on that long ass eight hour ride back to New York. I'm about to shoot to the airport and I'm good. So I get to the airport, I got like the sweater on my shoulder. So some girls and I was like, yo, yo yo, that's a cool g alright. So I'm like what it was like, I'm talking to my friend, like how much It's like five hundred dollars. It's like a seven hunder dollars sweating. So I'm like holding, yeah, I holding like that. It was

like a bunch of colors. I'm just getting out, so I'm like, I don't like this ship. Like so I'm like, I'm like, I don't know. So then I went in the bathroom. Then I put it on like I was like, you know, I'm like I bet so now I canna put the joint on. I got a little butter leather, a little know what I mean. So now I got that on the shoulders. May come home. That's when I meet Faith, you know what I mean? I meet Faith and then um, I flew from upstate New York. I believe,

I don't even know. It was a Buffalo Rochester somewhere. From there, I flew flew to New York JFK getting them stuck. You know how, you know everything's moving fast? I meet face. She gives me a uh keys to a I think a green what do you call him? Not off the land rover running afour runner? No, no, no, no, no land cruising. It was a land cruiser. It was a green land cruiser. But she was like in a

rush to go to a photo shoot. She just wrote her number on a piece of paper, gave me an envelope, like your head, this is from you, this is from big. Out out of that, it was gone. I'm like, yo, you know what I'm saying. Go Yeah, I'm like yoase I left, Like we were taking the train, you know, we gotta remember so to come home to to that normally we ain't hosting it from from the block to the studio. So to come home and into the right yeah. So I was like, so, I'm like, all right, cool.

So I don't know what to do. So I'm like, all right, I s you know what I'm not gonna do. Let's pull up on an avenue. So I drove, took me about. I was lost as I drove, and then UM parked the car a few blocks down from the avenue, grab my bag out, you know, act like I just got out, what's up? What's up? Out of up? And everybody's like, oh big, don't change, like your hand gonna funk with you da, So my mind, I'm like, okay, well this is what you call not fucking with you.

Then keep not working with me. Then you know what I mean. I got no amends, give me a bag of money, brand new car, like you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, all right, cool, So they're not going home Grandma's and everybody's. And I call faith no, I call well, I call it big. I called him from the joint. It's like once you see my grandma numbers, Like once he picked up the phone, we just laugh like we're not even saying no words, Like we laugh about a good five minutes. But it was like a

hard care laugh. But it was like a laugh sharing like I told you we're good. I know you fucked up? Did you give you? Like it was just a laugh with It wasn't even a conversation where you just knew. It was everything like in one you know, like one situation.

So connection yeah, and then um and I told about like hey, yo, if you know, I don't want to be I don't really want to be down here, like you know, I mean, I want to be around here, around these guys and all that stuff, if you know, if you want me to stay home, like you know what I mean. It's like he was like, Yo, cool, meet me, meet me in l A. I'm on a promo tour. So I'm like, all right, cool me not know no better books a ticket to l A. He just said l A. So the lands calls, He's like, Yo,

where you at. I'm like I'm in l A. Like he's like where. I'm like, right, I gotta I don't really had no bag and nothing. I was like, I'm like I'm right outside. Like he's like, you don't see a white musing. That's when the promos like we're still coming up with the fifteen passenger van. You know what I'm saying that It was real, yeah, you know what I mean. He's like, you'll see no big white van.

I'm like, no, I don't see no van. And he's like, um, where are you at, like in l A. So he's like nah, Like like well, I was like l A said, what's the name of the air port? Was like l as like, nah man, I think we was in San Francisco or something or San die because he was like, nah man, you're in the rung. I was like, so what I'm gonna do the He's like, yo, them flights the shore, they've run every forty five minutes. Just go

back in there. So he was like, but now I'm wearing a bit to pick you up because I gotta d door. So I'm like, um, all right cool. So I'm like all right, So I said this, give me the address, writes it down, spinning paper. Then so right down, right down the address and all that stuff flies there, catch a cab to the things. So I pull up to this like this this store, I'm like, the line was like damn it three blocks long. So I'm like, yo, I'm like, damn the funk they selling in there? Like

you know what I'm saying. I was like, somebody must got some ship going on like this, Like this line is like, you know, three blocks down, so I can in and out looked. I start seeing like he's sitting at the addressing at like a table like this, you know what I mean, It's in line, So I see like seas I see l L I see the team. I see hawking on him, I'm like, okay, so boom, So I went I grabbed like five copies of the of the CD. You know what I'm saying. So I'm standing.

So I got on line. So he signed and joints doing what he needs to do. And then I got to he looked up. I was like maybe four people up to the table. Then when I saw him, he just he just got up. He was like oh ship like it stop. Everybody to know what was going on

because he jumped up quick. So people just like they was like yo, so we about yeah here they're telling people, I got this is my man, Like yo, this is my man right here, like oh, and then we was rocking ever since you and I was like, you know, that was it from there was the fine roll. It was just like whatever you need, but it was it was just still learning it. As you know, I'm a quick learner, like you know, that's one thing I'm not

as slow. So like if I see what's going on, I can adapt, like you know, I mean I know how to adapt. So I've seen what was going on about the situation. I just applied myself where I figured he needed. You know, we needed to help. I'm gonna say you were really clearvoyian at that time too, because you picked up a camera and like you just started documenting all this footage of Big. It's like and a lot of it is unseen. Yeah, it's you know what

it was. It was a picture, like you know how they say, like a picture, there's a little thousand words videos living forever Like I mean that was just me, like but they were heavy and expensive back then. It's crazy. But it's like carrying a sneaklebox always in the way, battery dead all the time. It was. It would be you shooting all stun. Let me tell you something. At one point, I was like driver, security, cameraman, chef. Only

one dude ever got his flowers. My boy named man Jamil, like he always kept us, kept us dope, but I don't let him dress me. Yeah, but like everything at one time, Like that's why I like I look at today and like to see what people do. It's like I used to do that like by myself. Like I would be driving with my knee and recording Big in the front seat like this, you know what I'm saying.

So it's like, well, net we never had like I never I wish I wish I would have knew, Like we never was recording for nothing like to you, we just was recording because the funny thing was watching it at night. That's what we used to do. We used to tape all day and then get back at the end of the day and just re want it and then just watched the night. And it's the crazy thing with that is it's like it never was us that

was funny. It was everything behind it. Like when you take something, you notice everything that's going on in the background opposed to what you stuff you could see the stuff you couldn't see. So that was that's what kind of got like kind of amazed me when it comes to like videos and stuff like that, like filming, and then um, it was just yeah, so we're sitting on a lot of unseen footage and things like that from Big I mean me, like, I just it's just personal

for me, Like you know what I'm saying. It's just like like a diary like we usually like I get friends together, like we usually do stuff like on Christmas or his like since he's been gone, like you know, since like this time of the year. Stuff like that just go through old stuff and bug out. It's like it's like a diary for me. It's like making anybody

read your diary, you know what I mean. So it's like, you know, but I mean I've had got some stuff out, like because Mama, like you know, puff them want to do stuff. But like and it's not even about no bread because like half the stuff you see, at least eighty percent of the stuff you've seen on Big since he's been gone, had to come from me. And it was to the point like after the years go by, people with like for the bug and there like yo, you get money for this stuff or that I wasn't

doing it. I mean, it was just about his legacy, just keeping them looking good and keeping him, you know, keeping him fresh. So what do you make of his legacy and how even like all these years later, it's like Mark Knife is still that day or even his birthday and we telling people two times now that dayy were born to day they passed. Like I mean, I think, let's again my personal opinion. I just think where his

legacies at now, it should be bigger. And I think he's still the hardest working rapper in the game right now. You know, he's in everybody's songs. He's in everybody, you know, he's people always, you know. So I just think he's still the hardest working dude in the game right now. What he means should be bigger, you know. I just think as far as his legacy and like, we could

be doing more, you know what I'm saying. I think we could be doing more, Like Big Big can do a lot, like you know what I mean, as far as the foundations and just you know, it's just as a unit, like you know what I'm saying. I just think it could be doing more. But that's just like

my humble opinion. So do you think musically it hurts because he wasn't able to get as much music outs maybe some of the artists and yeah, I mean all the stuff he put out was great, but it's it's a smaller catalog when it comes Yeah, when it comes to music with me, it's hard to ask me because then I sound to me, it's like I could put on Life After Death now and it still sound better

than somebody that dropped the album yesterday. We so, like you said, you were so when you when you were locked up, you didn't hadn't even heard rated that when you had to tape, had had a set tape stuff

like that. So when did you feel your friend is nice like special like this, he's nice, like he's well, like I said, it's after he passed away I realized how nice he really really was because a lot of people looking at him as Big, it was still Chris to me, like I used to like to like to be out and about and here's somebody tell me a story about Big when I was gone, like you know

what I mean. And then the story would be a little funnier to me, because whatever it is, I'm sure he put his stamp on it that nobody even caught. And I'll catch the funniness of the story, but I know the story they tell him, I would catch it and be like, you don't even know, like he don't plays like you know, just like little stuff like that. I like to hear stories about you about Big, because

a lot of stuff I miss. I was just like there for the pivotal points in his life, like you know what I mean, Like so a lot of the in between stuff I kind of miss. So I'm kind of like be wanting to him, like I like to hear people tell stories about big or they'd like to listen to people interviews and stuff like that. But you said you didn't like juicy though right at first? Why not?

I don't know because after hearing like a bunch of life because just the time that we were in, like everything was just like you know, gangster rapp and da that's what said respect. You know, probably remember because I asked bit, I was like, yo, why would you do that? He was like, Yo, what do you want to do to be nice rapper? Or be a nice rapper and make money? So you know, I guess. So you know, we learned from him and this is what you need to do, you know, to to you know, these type

of records that you gotta put out. You can do what you want to do on your album, but you know, if you want to make some money, this is what you need. You want to see him sort of evolved with that, like those those records and the big poppers they worked and I love them all. Now yeah, no, we also would see we also you see his style

started to change. He started wearing the nicest stuff and there was the whole even like the growth from the um from ready to die, the life after death was like you can't talk about the same things no more because it's the same thing ain't happening. You know. That's how I feel like today when they do like the comparisons and and stuff like that, where people with artists like you know, how are you comparing to somebody, like

it's the same thing. It's not going on again, like we was in a whole different struggle that was like the crack error. People felt like like I don't know no new crackheads. You know what I'm saying, Any crackhead I know being a crackhead, you know what I'm saying. Or you know, like I don't know who's smoking crack the mar like I don't know a new crackhead. So it's not even the same things as pills, sirrup. It's that whatever it is people doing right in the numbering music.

So it ain't gonna be a comparance, a whole different struggle. You ain't go nobody, You ain't better. They're gonna be another j another nas, another public in and then another. You know what I'm saying, It's not gonna be that because it's a whole different error right now. Now, it's not the same struggle in the streets no more. I mean he's not saying that, no crackheads, but you know,

you know what I mean, it's not the same. But you came home to you said that you popped up at the One More Chance video, right, Yeah, that was the first video that I actually besides that Supercap is a supercap video floating around and they think I'm in it ain't me? But yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, they that ain't me, you know what I mean. But that was like one of the first videos that I actually like. All that was around the same time. Like

all that was still like around the same time. So before that, yeah, yeah, it was around the same time coming home, you know, the in store, like you know, maybe when we came back from that that was getting shot and all that stuff. So then, um, he was like yo once he's funny. Ship. I was like, yeah, he's watching me stress everybody out. I said, what you're talking about? He's like, watch this. We left set, you know what I'm saying. He was like, you'll get the car.

We left set, jumped in the truck. He put his phone on the dashboard. So he's like, watch how many times this nigga mop pits and puff called my phone. So they call the phone one time, big pick up. It's like, yo, man, hey man. They're like, Yo, were you at? Were you at? Like they're talking budgets and stuff like yo. You know you're playing yourself because like, yo, man, I can't take this ship is too much. I'm out boom hang up right. But we're around the corner just smoking.

We're in the car, so we did We ain't going nowhere. We just pulled around the corner. We're just smoking weeds. So it's like, Yo, they're blowing up the phone. Yo, they calling my phone. He's like, just pick up. So they're like, yo, man, if you if that's your boy, you'll get him back here, like you'll get him back like that. So I'm like, oh, so I'm like all right, cool, so being like, don't worry about I don't worry about it. So we sat there for about forty five minutes, then

pulled back on seven. I said everybody was stressed, and he just looked back and said, I told you it's like a little funny stuff, like you know what I mean. Yeah, So it was. It was. It was real. So were you were on the set when he did Martin that episode. Um, Nope, nope, I was Actually that's what I said that damn just like I had that was a report date for me, so I couldn't make the trip, but I was home.

I was there, like yeah, but I was like I was there though, because they told me that was like the illest gave me the illest story about Martin. Man. It's like Martin is like one of the illest dudes. Like he kept his joints, like he just rolled with joints in a cigarette hold of like there's joints just like like his joints. Like, so he had fun over there though he wanted to do that when he was excited about that because everyone keeps saying that he was such a funny guy, you know what I mean. So

that's yeah, it really was right. I remember we used to like hear do stuff like because like I said, he didn't drive, just f y. He never learned, never learned, never going to what he tried to. One time we were going on a trip. We're in front of his mom house, me on St. James to be getting the car. He's like, yo, I left my asthma pump upstairs. I was like, all right, I'm gonn run up and grabbing for you. It's like five in the morning. Everything quiet.

I get upstairs. All his boom boom boom boom, and car a long's going on. He took the car around the block but hit about seven pod cars. Know what I'm saying, like that about seven songs I caught downstairs. He come he running up the block. I'm like, yo, what happened? He was like the car fucked up? Like I'm like, I don't understand, like he was in the past, you see, He's just like you're the car fucked up? Like you know what I mean? So he ran up.

That was like the one time. Then we caught the caps and I don't even know what happened to call. We caught the cab to the airport, but he wouldn't even know the dry But we would pull up at tolls and then um, we'll pay the people and he would just like lean over and then like if whoever it was was a god girl, whatever is, he would lean over and be like, you know what, you got a big ass nose, like while I'm waiting for the change, like the stuff, like he would just say like stupid

stuff to people. You know what I mean stuff like that. But yeah, yeah, yeah, he's definitely funny. You definitely get a laugh. I mean that's what I like to do. I'd rether laugh right right, you laugh, you get a six pack and say, laughing is the best stomach exercise in the world. In fact, good laugh, tighten up the good, tighten up the asps. But Big was really big on tightening up his clue Junior Mafia. So it was like everything we hear about Junior Mafia coming together like that

was really his goal, just to put his team on right. Definitely, yeah, definitely. I mean he basically put it like this. He was halland Junior Mafia before it was Junior Mafia. That was just a vision that he wanted to do and you know and stuff like that. So he kind of like had a Junior Mafia deal for we had the members. Mm hmm. Yeah. So what did you make of it? Did you see something in sees or Kim, Like, when did you see that, Okay, there could be something here.

I mean I was already I was already there, like you know, like we was already rocking then. So but I've seen, I've seen, I mean, he was living proof that, you know, it can happen. So you know, he had the whole plan like this is gonna be you. You're gonna do this, You're gonna do that, like you know, because Kim was like like Kim and Blake was like one of the ones that came up, like Kim came to the table with songs and you know, stuff like that.

Like you know, I was right there watch but I never really got into you know, I had a whole different other role I was dealing with, you know what I mean as far as in his life. So I never really but that's what I said, Like that's one thing I do know. I've you know, I know music. I've been in the studio. You know, I know what it is. I know what it sounds like. You know what I mean, I know I know what it is. You know what I know what it is when I hear it. He said, you said that you have a

certain commandments. You guys said, they said, there's number one the music, number two the music business, and number three the music industry. And you said, love the first, learn the second, I'll smart the third. So what do you what do you love about music? And what was it? So what was it like being around Biggie watching him create, because then now you got a chance to like see

him create music. It was like it was like people didn't get it that first, like big Wood type people come come, come to the studio, see the engineer, like you know how you rewind it, how you turn it up and down? All right, cool, you can break out, give me a number, call you when I'm ready. Like he would sit there and just you know, he had learned it as he do it, like you know, I mean here re wanted, keep re wanting, to keep wanting,

to keep wanting to keep wanting. It's like I come to the point where I kind of knew when he was almost finished with the song of how long he would let it play, you know what I mean, like like because but just be the instrumental if the instruments we got towards like toward the end without him and wanted it, I'd be like, Okay, song finished, let me get ready to get this guy over here. Like so I kind of knew the system, yeah, the rhythm like that,

but not even knowing it. But I just as being there with him and stuff like that, and I knew when you know, he wasn't feeling it that night and stuff like that, but he would actually learn the song as he go. He would start off fully dressed in the booth with the lights off, and by time the song is over, he's in his draw That's true. He would always normally stripped down to the booth like he was going there yet never asked. So it's just like he would always do that he was. It would start

off fully dressed. See he's a roll a few lights, turn the lights off, and then until the end of the drawing, they would hit the lights on. And you're like, yo, what it's like in his boxes? Is any sessions that

stand out to you? Brooklyn's, Uh, Brooklyn's finds the song he did with jay Z. We've heard different accounts of this story because it was it was like it was it was kind of hard to meet get the schedules like Jay kind of like did his and then I had to send it the big I remember throwing up that night, like in the booth like if I I don't know, I don't know what was going on, but he made me sit in a booth with him and

I was just like laid out on the floor. I just I just remember being real fucked up that night, you know what I mean? But that was like that night. Then the bone Thuk song notorious stuff. Yeah, and then actually it was a song he was appeared on. Somebody joined I think it was all Kelly and they didn't understand how Big work. So, um, we went to the session or whatever, and so they gave Big open in the pad. So Big was like thanks and started crushing up his weed on the pad. Thanks or whatever the

case might be. So then um, I had went to the bathroom and I was in the bathroom using the bathroom in one of the stalls. So whoever it was come up in the bathroom. It's like a yeah, man, you know they're real unprofessional, you know what I mean. I gave him a pen and pad to start to. He'd be listening to the same He just wanting the record. He's like sitting in there. He's not even doing nothing. He's just staring into space studio time, whether's on the phone.

So I'm like, I'm in the bathroom now, I only want to flush and nothing. Now I'm like that, I don't want dude on the spot, so I'll wait for him to get out, so I come in there. I called Big and I'm like, yo, it's like a homeboy in there calling somebody on you like snitching, and like tell him about like you know, you're wasting money. He gave you pad, you just crushed the weed out, you know what I mean. So he was like, don't worry about him. So then he was like I'm ready. But

it was all Kelly session that that that much. I know, you'd be happy, happy, That's what it was. So they think about it when Yeah, so they thought he was just in there wasting time. They didn't know how he worked, you know what I mean. So then after after he did the joint, dudes like yeah, they was all happy and stuff. And I told him, I was like, you know, I was in the bathroom using it talking to he he was talking to he was like, I was like, yeah,

I was like, that's just how he worked. Like were you always amazing that he didn't write stuff down? It was all yeah, it always looked like he wasn't working. Like even like I said, even in our cars, like I got footage of us ridding around listening to Somebody Got a Dog, just the instrumental like he would pick his beats like you know, he would pick a lot of his beats like kind of like orchestrate the beats first, then applied apply druingts like his thing would just get

the music right first, like like his album with or instrumentals. Wow, you said the Bone Thugs like that was big at that time because they were huge with their different type of lyrical style and it was so it was so great to see Bigie do that style and do it effectively? Was that always in his mindset? Like? What was that? Like? I mean, I asked him what was he gonna do? She just said, Um, I'm gonna let them do their thing. He said, I'm gonna let them do their thing and

I'm just gonna come after or go first. He said, I don't want to be in the middle of whatever it is that they're doing, you know, because we actually did it in l a and then we big recorded his daddy's house in New York. So but that's like I said, that day was like them guys was talented. Like I seen this dude dust off a bottle and go and I don't know which one of the bones he got, no doubt it was he When I say he went in and like and then even though like

the way the hook came. I remember them with them being inside there was like equally inside was all equal to side to meet each other and sold. Um. One of them was just saying like, oh shoot, I can't believe. It's just like it's like it's like it's bone and biggie. Yo. It's like damn, it's boning biggie like he kept saying it, kept saying it. Then they just started, like I said, them guys was different. Yeah, so they started like, you know,

boning a biggie biggie bones. Then then um, that's like okay, so what you're thinking about the hook? Big Big was like that, like what, like what you've been talking about for the past ten minutes? You know, it's boning biggie And then it just went in did the joint. Later down we took the song back to New York and Big Ladies Verse was jay around you guys a lot, because you know, it's a lot to talk about their relationship,

you know. And definitely we used to make it our business to to at least eat before everybody started getting busy. We were all break bread like at least once a week somewhere, like even if it was us going to like he might be in Miami, you know what we're doing it we meet in Miami eat New York. We were always yeah, definitely fun with j J Hard that's my boy. It seemed like there was a lot of friends on stage at the source of wards though, man, there's a lot of friends on stay what did you

make about that whole night? It was fun. It was fun to me. We're talking about the show was that same year we did it? Yeah, but did yeah, and that was the only Yeah, yeah, that's it was. It was you feel attention in the airy d rock It was. It was. It was thicking there, but it wasn't it was to me, it wasn't like a real thick. It was like a like an industry thick, like like a music type. There wasn't one of them situation because if it was, you know, it wouldn't really be on stage

talking like that anyway. So it was more or less of us, So you do the difference in fact, Yeah, that's crazy. So but but there wasn't no I guess any high still. I mean, there was hostile in the air, but nothing towards the camp or anything like that, like a problem. I mean, I guess, but like I said, it wasn't really it wasn't enough. It wasn't really like I wasn't tripping like I said that whole. I was just more excited that like it was actually winning a war,

like it so well. I would just like, oh ship, like I'm still like I said, we were still learning it as as everything happened so fast, like it was just like so compact and you know what I mean. But literally we know we was writing the blueprint for people you to this day. You know what I'm saying. You said that you had to put something up about I guess that arrested the Palladium and you were saying some about how you guys were learning the game while

you was in it. Like looking back on it now, I just wasn't ready, I guess, like because back then we thought we were good, like you know what I mean. So it was like how like like how the still going to jail like right now, like like like what

are we doing? Like you know what I'm saying, Like even with the the the fucking you tonight with all Kelly, like that was like straight from getting billed out of jail, like they had ran up in the house and tea neck New Jersey and had brought them up on all them weapon charges and stuff like that, and they got in the bell and everybody out and it was like literally sitting outside the priest and like, Yo, we're gonna do now. Like I'm like, he was like, we gotta

go to studio. It's like I'm talking about no shoe strings, no belts, you know, they take all that ship. We even wait for that ship went straight to the studio and just so happened, were getting out of a cab all Kelly's coming down steps, let mean, coming off the elevator and it was like, yeah, I want you to hear something took him up there. Kelly Win was like, yeah, I gotta catch your fly. But went in the booth and just did the Harminy to fucking you tonight. Not

at all, that's crazy. That definitely a great album. It's got great stories. Wow. But you did he record a lot of that in l A Or was it here in New York? That album New York York. Yeah, we did a lot of it, yea, just like the last few, like the uh Benjamin's remixed a couple of joints we did out there. Victory I believe right, Yeah Victory remember that night? Yeah all right? Like I said, as far as like it was for me, it's like a sus too much? Do you too much to even tell? Like

each record is a story for me. There's not one recording session that we did that ain't nothing crazy happened, but not even in a bad way, just crazy good way. But I got one for you because Toddle was the streaming says, what's the what's the d rock biggie EP? What's the five songs that they really stick out there that your personal favorites? My perfect catog every day struggle? Nobody, um Juicy Juicy? Uh wait, say a little about East's why every day struggle? People do TV shows that out

of that? Now video shows no? Because that's like that, That's what it is. Like that. The first three lines of the song was like what we was going through, Like I know how it feels to wake up fucked up? That was it, Like you know how it feels to wake up fucked up? Like we know what I mean he was going through it, like so you know, and then um juicy just because I knew but didn't know, like not saying I like saying I didn't like the song. I love the song, but I see why the song

was necessary, Like you know what I'm saying. It was just like that. And then um, you said you nobody, nobody. That's just hard. That's just like my ship, um pray um unbelievables. I got mortified that I can't do that. I got a lot of I got a lot of joints stuff. Remember, unbelievable. He was saying he wanted premier so bad. He was like, yo, just loop up in peace, the president whatever, give me something like that. That's when

we're actually unbelievable. When I was like, oh ship, m like oh ship, like snig snicking from getting busy right now, Like that's when we kind of woke up like you know what I mean, Well, not for me, you know what I mean? That was because I never this is hard when you grow up with somebody to see they not saying not to see their talent, but like he used to bug me out to see people like bugging out over that's crazy, like good, like yo, that's crazy.

Like you know what I'm saying, Just the whole just the whole ship, like he went in like that's when actually, that's when a lot of people kind of started treating us a little different, like, oh, ship, he's arrived, Like this dude is a real deal, Like you know what I means. Like we started seeing how things started moving, and he was kind of learning, like really the first recording um the beginning quarter stages of Life after Death is win. We was like we was on point, Like

we knew what we was getting into. We knew the game all right, we already have went through a fast preview of it. We're ready to die now, you know. I mean, we're about to plan our flag and you know, and do what we need to do. That we had to do was saying something that he had said something the doctor that the rated that was the inside looking out and this was the outside looking in. That's how

it felt. That's how it felt. That's how I felt. Right, Well, it's been twenty one years, you know, since Biggy's passing. Is it hard to go back to cali um kind of disorder? Like like, mmmm, it's not hard to go back, but it's just like you know, when you when you're down there, you just be like, damn, this is like

you know, it's a little different from me. Like I was in a car with him, so you know what I mean, So like his like I know what his last breath was, like, I know what his face looked like his mom, I don't know, I was there, you know what I'm saying. I explained to her like how that how that works. So it's like it's a little different for me personally. That's how I feel about the celebration, like from Marsh ninth, Like it's like not saying overlook it.

You know what I mean. You have to acknowledge it. You know what I mean. But it's like to me, I don't think it's a celebration. It's too depressing for me, you know what I mean. But now you know, I think that's time. Do you just reflect and thank God for your blessings. That's what Marsh Knife needs to be to be thanking God for your blessings that you're still here, Like you want a party of this party made twenty one life. No, that's just me like you like you

do every other I com Yeah, you know. It's a tough also because even now there's still so much about how it's unsolved and it's all expected. Is there justice to your mind that there needs to be somebody that's heels accountable, gave their closure in a sense for you if they never felt nobody definitely not no closure. No closure, man, I don't know, but they will be. You know. I can't sneak through life. Everybody gotta show face. It's one

thing you can't do is sneak to life. Rather be on a knife the nine day, whatever it is you're gonna you're gonna have to show face. Nobody can sneak through life. So that's no I'm big on that, you know. Like they say, if you can look yourself in the mirror, that means you're good. You know what I mean. If you can look yourself in your mirror, that means you can live your life all over again. I live my life all over again when I brush my teeth in the morning because I could look in the mirror. I

ain't gotta put my head down. I ain't gotta do none of that. Ship I'm good. So even the mistakes you've made in times and these periods you've had to go away, Like sometimes you gotta do something wrong to make it right, you know, right, and sometimes you gotta do But that's the thing, the thing that people give me my props for all that stuff is like one of the worst things in my life. I wish I never took that motherfucking bit that maybe a beer, you know.

I mean, I wish I never went to jail for that, you know what I mean. It's bigger than that, you know. I mean, it wasn't even like you know. So that's how life is. I guess the thing that people think is like that ship is like the worst ship. I mean, that's the ship that people always Oh, man, you know you're a good dude, stand up. Yeah, okay, but I still don't, you know, bring back my boy that still don't you know what I mean. He ain't there for his kids but with his mom. So just different for me,

you know what I mean. But so that's my thing. Like I said, I'm not trying to downplay March ninth, but that ship is fucking depressing. I don't want to keep going through that ship every fucking year. And depression is real. You can be depressed and you sail like your person. Like you see a lot of people saying about being positive. Now, it seemed like you, like you said you you you was probably different positive. It just don't look like that. Tell me. I'm I'm a real

positive person. Yeah I am. I don't barely talk, you know what I mean. I know I stayed to myself like you know what I mean. I'm always positive, you know, but I just don't, like, you know, things just don't feel right sometimes you know, it's it's it ain't right. Usually it's not right. But how did you cope following you know, the events that happened? Ah? Man, I mean, I really see it's hard, like when you used to be in the backbone and strong. You gotta be strong

for everybody else ship like that. Like even back then, it was like I couldn't cry, Like I would have to cry in the shower. It's like, motherfucker's see me cries like oh God, Like you know what I'm saying. It's like you gotta be strong for everybody else's trying to you know. But like I said, I don't I think I was depressed. I might have been depressed for

a few years. To be honest with you, like I saw, I said, I think depression is real, like you might not know it, like when you the press might not feel like it's like when the press walk around with your head down. I was still ripping a run and do what I need to do. But it's like you blocked certain things out, like you know what I mean, there's certain things you know, you just try to block it out. Let's try to stay busy. What's therapy an option for you or anything like that? Nahm hmm. But

you also took it to Hay. Nobody even told me because I don't know how I would even but it took it. If somebody like you need to go to therapy or something. I mean, you witness your best friend get killed in front of you. That's a traumatic event. But I know I didn't. I didn't really want to um participate in the music industry no more, that's for sure. Like I was like I didn't even make no sense to me even be I felt cheated, like you know what I mean, like when I did all this ship

for nothing? You know what I mean, It's like, we don't did all this ship fucking nothing, man, But then you ended up still doing it even on a high level, like like the Kim had to make another album, second album, Tom and you that was like, honestly, give that, like give that to like um the dude, um on and and and puff They was like, um, yoda, you know a lot of people's word about me. So they was like, yo, look man, this what you need to do. I just

started management company. Do this, do that, dad that, And then you know I'm saying, kind of got me back into Yeah. I was like I was. I was over, like I could care less. I was already thinking about how I'm gonna like you know what I mean, just like okay, everybody got to pay us. So everybody was everybody's fault to me, you know what I mean, it's everybody's fault, everybody fault. So but then I was just like no, I can't be like that, you know. So it took me a minute to fight with that, but

then realized like fucking depressed. Man. I was just like you know, when you go out, you see certain ships, you hear songs, and you just always wonder like, damn, my boy was here. I know I wouldn't be doing this, like I know what we would be like, you know what I mean. Like about about seven years ago, took a trip to Bora, Bora. I sweel like everybody going down like that. I've been there about seven eight years ago. But um, I realized that like you know, like this

is like you know, we this is ship. We used to talk about taking trips, like going places like that, you know what I'm saying, Like, so yeah, but um, that's not realized. It was like, you know what, I just gotta start, you know, just start living like you know, just stop living, just doing what I need to do. But even then it was still hard because then you might be good and then this time of year rose around,

then you want your bounce back from this. Guess what since the day's birthday is here again, you know what I mean? Then, you know. So it's like I said, I know to deal with it now though, but the thing is now it's a major, major, major part of dealing with this for me being around real people this time of year and not the phony b i g. Celebrators that you only hear from this time of year. There's people that I only speak to that's coming up this week. They'll probably be calling me, you know what

I mean. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It's like, you know, that's why I really kind of shot away from the interviews and stuff like that, because it's like, when you look at the interview some of the people that be honest, Like you're not even talking like real ship, Like you ain't really checking on these families. You ain't. You ain't checking on do kids? And you know what I mean, Like you ain't. You ain't doing that, but

you on the interview every you know, every year. Like so I didn't want to really be a part of that type of stuff, you know what I'm saying. But the ones that do is the ones that I funk with today that's still here people in Like I mean, Puff definitely checks on your mama bear. You know what I'm saying. J You know what I mean. As far as on that level that people would know, you know what I'm saying, that matters, you know what I'm saying. Like they do what they're supposed to do, you know

what I mean. But there's a bunch of people that do, but then there's a bunch of people that don't. Those are one, you know what I'm saying. So it's it's like it's kind of weird. It's like a weird space. So I just it's weird. I stay out of it. Yeah, it's gotta be weird. Like my wife actually grew up on POC so, like, you know, somebody in real life, but then this person becomes a person to them and

it's not even a human anymore. It's like, so your memories like you know, the real person you dealt with, the real man. That's how I feel about like like the footage and stuff. I'll be like, I don't know, I don't have to share that. What everybody's that's my ship, right, No, let me read your diary. Then it's just that my diary is a visual you know most people diaries pictures or what they write like that type of stuff is I look at it now, it's like it's like my

diaries like it's my life. It's it's not, it's what I've been through. That's why I said, for me to tell a story, there's like I mean, I can't tell a story without mentioning the people that was in our life, regardless of what it is. Like if I told her, if I did a story, I would have to mention the puffs, the jay's, the nads like like I would have to mention them because it's part of my my life.

Like you know what I'm saying. We actually funk with each other, you know what I'm saying, or we don't had some type of connection, like you know what I mean? That was you know, pivotal. So but was it tough to stay in California following the murder? Yeah? Right, I know everybody left. I stayed. I don't know, I know everybody left. I waited for Mama Bear to come down.

That's wallows. I waited for her to come down and um, like straight out of a movie, like literally seen them put the silver casket on the plane on the commercial flight, looking out the window. Like. I stayed with her, and I was like crazy. That night was crazy though, but you know it is what it is. Man, h that was like a crazy night. But I definitely stayed and waited for her, you know I mean, I was like, if we're dead alive, I can't leave. I can't leave

my boy out. Yeah well you were at the time where you upset that puff left early. Um no, actually I wanted him to leave, you know what I mean. I told him because he was offering to stay, like everybody. I was like, you, I should just go leaves him, like you know what I mean, Like you should get out. It's never used for you to be out here. Anything you can do, you know what I mean? Like we don't even know what happened to him. So the last thing we needed you to be down here, you know

what I mean? But yeah, but he left, right, yeah, he left. You think the period after the big passing, when you got into management, you was like working to music with Season Kim and getting those records out. You were just running on adrenaline. Like what was your mind? Stay back then? You think adrenaline, I said, Coping Withold It just trying to stay busy, trying to stay busy, like kind of doing anything to just you know, not

think about that and trying to move on. I was just like the hardest part is like you always feel guilty for things. Like at some point I was thinking, like even now being in l A, I was like, damn, kind of feel guilty for even being down Here's like,

am I supposed to be down here? Like you know what I'm saying, like like that, But it's like, of course I'm supposed to be down here, like you know what I mean, Like I'm supposed to keep keep pushing, keep you know, keep doing this is what we're doing. So but you know, like I said, a lot of that ship is depressing. But yeah, you know the first part is knowing it, you know what I mean, You

gotta you know. I think it's in the rest of a puff too that people may not may not want to believe how much it still is part of him, you know what I mean? And I think that he often expresses it, that it's something that he still has to cope with, like it never like you know, people say, all right, dealing with deaf never gets easy. Is I mean? It's it's not. It doesn't get better. It's just coping

with a difference. You can cope with it better, but you can never can't get over and you can't get over losing somebody you know, regardless of who it is. If somebody you know love him, care about somebody you know, can't get over it. It's just different ways to just deal with it better. Do you think it's harder, especially being that your friend is an icon famous? You know, we've all experienced losses, But when someone is so you know, while he known, is it harder because he still feels alive?

Now for me, it's going places where we've been, like today, how to go to Rochester Bigger Toll to get a shirt, no, a jacket. But it's the same one that we used to go to when big was allowed, the same Rochester, big and Tall, the same so and it's the same people that worked there. So when they see me or they see they'd be like, oh ship, like yo, what's up all the places we used to eat? You know what I mean? Like little stuff like that that's hard,

you know what I mean? Or when I like like and um, nobody when he says four four and fifty four drawers, like that's true, he wore fifty four sized draws and we see getting from Rochester. So like going in there today, remmy or hops like down like to go over there, you know, me snatch up about ten packs of fifty four draws for him and you know what I'm saying, just getting like just little stuff like

that that I do. That that stresses me out more than no other ship like that, or seeing his kids like you know, see c J shipped like that, like he didn't really had a chance to you know what I mean, like like but just just like him. He don't even know it though, but little stuff you do with daughters like he'd be proud. But that's what really gets me, just you know, retracking places that We've been other lines like that, the lyrical references that maybe they

stick to you wanted. Maybe even average fan doesn't know Yep, something Blanco sent you Mond you. My son had to tell me that. When he was a kid, I thought Blanco was black, but it was white Spanish. I learned that after the fact, you know what I mean. And he was telling me Yo. I was like, yeah, I was like, telling Blanco sent you. So I was like, yeah, I'm telling my sounds like that's black. He's like, no, Dad, that's white. I was like, it's blanco, Blanco was white.

I'm thinking Blanco black, blanc or whatever. He was like no. If the son was crying because he just learned it in school that day. The Spanish. He might have been about seven, about seven years old. So he was like, no, Daddy, I'm telling you, Blanco means white. Then it made sense. I'm like, uh, frank white, got you all right, son, You're right. Whip made sense to me, you know what

I mean. So it's like like little things like it's like certain things, certain things, and then certain like I said, certain songs, like I know I see like one of the performances, I forget one one of them soul trained performances. We had like to suit on. They didn't have his shoes and I always see this performance when they run and so he had on like one of the security shoes,

but he was walking on the back of him. It's like out of this whole big thing, like nobody don't even know, Like he ain't even got no shoes on. Just like it be like little stuff like you know, I mean, little stuff that gets me, don't It's always the little things that gave men't really nothing major, man, It's always a little things that no that gets you. Right. But also talking about little Kim, you know, her and Seas, they had like a little back and forth. You know,

what did you make of that whole situation? I mean that's like basically what everybody like at that time. Everybody was trying to find for theirselves and you know, like you know, just trying to It was it was hard. It was hard. It was hard for everybody. Like the mafia broke up, like you know what I mean. Kim was just next up obviously, like you know what I mean. So it was just like you know, there's a difference,

like now you you appreciate what Big was doing. It's like he was carrying a lot of weight, you know what I mean, carrying a lot of people, like because technically Big Gout four albums out, Hardcore Junior Mafia, right, so you know, so he has a few albums out that nobody seems to want to acknowledge. That's what it is, right, But during the whole a little Kim hotten on the seven situation, what was going through your mind? The rock, I don't even know. I don't even know if that

was even over. I found that out like later, I don't I don't even know. Right that holds Like I said, that was a gift and the curse. It was a blessing in disguise, you know how so because um, everybody needs to grow up. Everybody needs to grow up then, so you know, adversity came and everybody had to you know what I mean, I had to grow up, had to who the own right, you know what I mean? So things, I mean, things could have worked out a little bit better, you know, but I mean it didn't,

but it did. Like today, people speak everything, so you better terms because I thought, yeah, I speak yeah, Kim. Kim went over and said, how do you at the bar when you Yeah, we were just on. We just did this, you know, just to together. You know, we speak, I speak to Sees, I speak to her. No, I speak like I said, I don't got no problems with nobody, you know. I was surprised at the tour I of her and Sees on the same stage. I was like, Wow, we haven't seen that in years. So I was prossed.

And I also saw a picture last year with you and Nori. Yep, how did that? At Puff's house. I came because I think he has something he does with Puffy has to drink, to drink, drink, So he was over there and then um, and actually that was like maybe it might been my first time seeing him since since since the whole thing. So it was kind of funny though, like you know what I mean, It was like, oh, so we took the pick and then um, you know, that was it, man. But I just gotta like I said,

that was the time. Then That's why I know. The point is the most important is knowing how to move forward and you know what I mean, and grow from it, you know what I mean, that's that situation. What was that, like you said about when you first came home and Biggie was there for you. What was your life like when you first Oh you said with the show with the arc with the T shirts, like the same thing.

Both times you hit the ground running. And so the first time, like I said, big had me and then um that one there puff puff got me, Well there puff grabbed me, you know, and make sure I was straight, make sure I had a job, make sure that people was off my back, you know what I mean? And then rocking ever since because you were sent away for how many years for that situation? For ninety seven situations? Like six six and a half? Wow, like six and a half year. Yeah, how did you deal with that?

How did you get through that sentence? No? Tv uh just I mean, just know when it could be worse, because that's one thing about that situation. There's always somebody in the worse situation, didn't you You know what I mean? For the person that got five years, the person that got ten, the person I got ten is one I got twenty. But the one that has life is when I got double life. For the one I got double life, and motherfucker on death row for the one that's on

death row. It's one way and to get killed, So there's always you know what it means, you just always gotta make sure you're there's always somebody in the worst situation than you, you know, and just make sure that. But like I said, that goes again. If you're a good person, you always gonna be all right half the time. Like I don't expect nothing for nobody's you know, I just know I ain't got to ask on my report casts, So I'm good, you know, son, Yeah, you know what

I mean. So it's like at least I know that much. They're all good people left, so you know, I don't have I don't really trip off stuff like that. So why you're back into music? Man? What did you see in this chrismatic kid? Like? What was this number? One? Like I said, it was clean? He was clean, you

know what I mean? It was different. Like what people don't do these days is like you know, like back in the nineties whatever, you actually had artists development where you can get an artist, chill with them, get them together. Now it's just like every new artist like got where your head out there? Yeah, like like like twenty new chains and and and a fleet of race. So my thing is, like, why are you rapping. You should stick to what you're doing because this is this game is hard.

Like if you if this is your first video and then you're doing this type of stuff, you should the way look, you should stay doing what you're doing. You should not you know, you shouldn't be doing this. Just like he was clean and like I said, I said, you know what, I can develop him. I'm not saying all right from the jail, Okay, this is what we're doing now that but I see something in them that I know and in a few months time, we're coming. So he approached you. I'm sure a lot of people

his people see my people's and got it to men. Yeah, you know what I mean. His people seeing my people and got it to me, you know what I mean. And that's how you know. And I was getting like a lot of different things because I was already inquiring about just trying to you know, trying to get something, and that felt that that got to my hands and then it all just worked out right. Then I met him, we spoke, you know what I mean, good energy, good heart,

good kids like so you know nice. So I was like, you know that was like that was that was Current Songs Calories right, just called calories. Were just doing like a like a freestyle pack, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, pay homage to New York. We're gonna drop two more you know what I mean, to more freestyle videos and

then we're gonna get to it. I just want to pay homage just to the game to like, you know, there are people that's actually trying to you know, wrap and trying to be original, you know what I mean. What I'm saying, it's it's important. You know, the game don't change, just the players, you know how that goes, but the blueprint stays the same. Like so just trying to like I said, it's in development stages. We're just

trying to do what they need to do. It seems like you said heavy development because you was doing all these photos, shoes, different things, Like you really push yourself and what the imaging should be, how it should look. Do you feel you know, why is that so important for you to get that to stroll with any first idea you have. It seems like you're really going through. I mean, you gotta grow. I think that's what a lot of things are missing these days, nobody having nobody

to grow with. There's no connection, like not to bring it back to Big, but like with Juicy, you've seen the difference, like he was walking down the street in the white T shirt, genees like you actually can grow with somebody. You've seen the growth, Like nobody can grow with an artist these days. Everybody's starting off at the top. You need somebody to grow with. You gotta grow with somebody. That's how you That's called a fan base. That's how you build your fan base, you know what I mean.

You need somebody to grow with, just you know, so they can you know, that's just my opinion, that's how I feel. So I guess we would have to ask him, But are you putting the same pressure on because I mean, your friends were one of the greatest rappers ever. You're starting to do label with the new artists. So it's like, do you have put that pressure on him to be as nice as Big or um No, I mean, nobody's gonna be as nice as Big. That's you know, that's

just Big. That ain't gonna happen. Because we're talking about different things, you know what I mean, Like I's saying to you before this it's a whole different era. But one thing like I said, what I do know just my peers, I know music. I love music. I know what I'm hearing. I know the vision. I can see past that, you know what I mean. Like I said, I've been in JA sessions. I've been in puff sessions,

big sessions, Nah sessions. I've been in you know what I mean, bone thug like I've been around the greats that's actually move and shake the game. So that much. I do know. I know music when I hear it. What do you think that what are some of the things that new generation really just hasn't connected to it,

they get wrong that they can learn from that. Six outs for you based on those experiences rapping, just having yeah, just having something you know to basically you know, talk about and not to even knock that type of stifically, I mean, because that's what it is. A new it's a new generation. There's a new generation if they listen to But you gotta least stick to the basics when you're making music. Is make the music. You know, you

can't skip that part. You have to you know, you have to be able to rap, right, I think you just like you know what I mean, you know you have to make a song. That's why, you know, like I said, so focus so much on the hook and the beats, you have to have all the other components and a bit more to it. There's way more to it. But is that also because at the end of day, I mean, with you contributed to is and it witness

this timeless music. Do you think that people are going fit out or they're going for the hit of that moment? And maybe that's part of what the disconnect is. I mean, yeah, but that's what wins. You've got to be able to stand the test of time. You know, you have to stay in the test time. If that's the case, nothing else matters. If you're not gonna be there in the long run, why do it makes sense? You know? Why do it? To bed Box Top five? M C is big,

He's number one, So who's next? I don't know, that's hard. I mean that's because I sound like it's because it's just sounds like like like the rest coming from me, you know what I'm saying. I mean from my time before or now, like you know, it's a little you know, of course, my Biggie jay Z and NS right got to go there, you know what I'm saying. And then um Drake mm hmm. I mean, dude, it's nice like

you can't take nothing from him? Um who else? M hm m m so I got a few, but I know me saying this is so political, you know what I mean my personal favorites. Okay, well I got Big j Nas, Chrismatock, King Combs. Okay, the young boy got it. Yeah, he's different. Uh into the throne. M that's pretty I'm probably be in trouble for you know, this guy gets in trouble because he keeps as sistem that makes him and made battle over. What makes his places is a bad boy, A top five bad boy mcs in your mind.

Obviously Big is the top of the list. But who do you look at your top five dat bad boy rappers? I mean he only have five, right, You're definitely gonna get in trouble that you got the locks. I know that. That's that's what I'm talking about. Now. He puts like a g Dapper, but he basically puts base down. He puts a GDP a black rob above Mace. I say bass like number three, not him. Charlottn puts in black

Robber above May. So the argument is with me, and then you compare a Mace to Styles and kids who have been more consistent obviously, I mean Locks is just like a different machine though, like you know what I'm saying, Like yeah, like you know what I'm saying. So it's like it's hard to because you know that's what I said to to to put them as one. It's like you can't you know, you can't do that. You can't do that, you can't put them as on my list was like Biggie Jada, Mace, uh Styles and I forgot

whom my number five? I think it was Black Rob pretty good? Yeah, pretty good. But then you got you got your fab and like like you got like it's hard coming like you know, I mean I gotta, I got you know, I got a lot. I got a lot like mans is Mortar five, Oh fab, but side of it, yeah, just like this like MC is Like I'm still like on that, like it's a lot. All right, we talk, we're talking about top five. You know someone you admitted it's Tupoc. You know a lot of people

put them on their list. Like was the relationship between big and Parc as biggest people say it was or was it wasn't that close that they with each other. Okay, yeah, but even like even with that, like you can't even like compare Big and Pop. They talked about two different things. You know, Big ain't really never made a dear mama. You know, they talk about two different things. Pop was like you know, Pop was deep, like you couldn't probably could probably coppear like a pocket nas. They kind of

talked around, like around the same thing. It was like, you know, they never really talked about that type of stuff. But they had a real friendship though nonetheless, Yeah, okay, friendship. We know him, I definitely know him. It wasn't like you know, yeah, it wasn't no industry, Yeah no, no, you know, yeah they funked with each other. If what was you to take on when things started to go left?

Like you concerned it you felt like resolved. Yeah, I didn't even know, like like that was even like a fast time, Like I don't even know like what was really going on, Like you know what I'm saying, Like I don't even know what happened, Like you know, I really don't even know what happened to be honest with you with that, but I know they were cool. You know, they were cool. They were friends, so it's crazy to see.

I always tell people like both those guys died at the height of their their fame though and young dudes, and like that altered the way you was upset the past away. Yeah. Yeah, he said he didn't deserve it. I was the first thing to say, saved man, and he said he didn't deserve that. I don't know a card us of what's going on. Like he's like, he

didn't deserve it because he was really hurt by that ship. Yeah, everyone thought that he was going to pull through, you know initially, right, but just them dying to hide their fame, and to me, it redefined hip hop history, right because now you have to look at Biggie Impark in historical context where it's like, you know, back then we'd have like we talked about the G's and the eighties that

really set the tone to rock, Kims, the Kings. But it altered history where it's like to some people that the nineties is there, the next genracing the nineties at the finding decade, Golden Golden. It's crazy because like when you look back and I forget, like big you guys were young, like under twenty five like I was like, we were learning it as we were doing it, right, it was were learning the game doing it like I know I was learning it. I know he was still

learning it. Like you know what I mean. I remember him big breakdown when I said, um yo, I was like, he was like, yeah, it's too much going on. He was like yo. I was like, who do we need to like? For? My thing? Is like who you respect? Like you know, it's there's so many moving parts, so many people going on. So I'm like who who who? Like? Who who we respect? And stuff like that. He said, we'll put it like this, It's like Puffer's Phil Jackson.

Like it was like Puffers Phil Jackson, I'm Joey, this one is pipping. This one is that this is what we're doing. I was like, got you. That's how he broke down everything that was going on around him, you know what I mean, like a quick one to three because like I just need you to catch up, like you know what I'm saying, like I ain't got time to teach. I ain't got time, but but I got it though, you know, I mean I already knew what that was because I didn't know. I didn't want to

teach me. My thing was I want to be less distraction as possible. Keep doing what you're doing, trust me, you know what I mean. I'll apply myself to figure it out. So but then I get it now, Like that's just like the perfect you know, a knowledge that

he could have gave me back then that quick. You know what I'm saying, Being that you were so close to before we get out of here, What do you think that he would make up everything that's going on right now, Like as far as just everything that has happened, you know with Puff and you know, bad Boy and just the state of the game. Like, what do you think I mean if he was here? I honestly think what I was I realized with people like miss is like when Big Big was alive and when he was

at his peak, everybody was nice in the game. It wasn't just like Okay, he was big, he's hit nobody, Like everybody had everybody on top of their toes. Everybody was nice, you know what I mean, even the Corney people was nice. Music was good in that period. So yeah,

so we had everybody on they toes. Now it's just like, you know, I think, you know, it wouldn't be certain people wouldn't be would they, you know, as far as MC wise, wouldn't you know, slip through the cracks and all that, because it wouldn't wouldn't be able to go nowhere because it would have been locked, like you know what I mean. So people had to be on their toes.

I know we were, you know what I mean? I know, I mean when I interviewed Big in other interviews, he always to be said about he was concerned about he wasn't gonna be that rapper that had like ten twenty albums, like he was gonna have a short run of albums that were all great and then he was going to kind of move on down the path he would have. I'm telling we had plans, have plans, We have plans. He wanted to live life. He wanted to live life.

Like I've done a lot of stuff that we didn't even get a chance to do, and I'm thankful for that. Like I've done a lot, I've seen a lot of things, done, done a lot of you know, been a lot of places. I've done a lot. Actually I've done that more than I probably don't done more things. And some of the wrappers out and I'm not an artist. I don't been a lot of places, did a lot of things that people are still probably working to do. So I count my blessings for that, you know. So I'm very humble

when it comes to that type of stuff. Example example, I mean ship, I didn't mean Italy trip, you know what I mean, funked up the meta, you know what I mean, I didn't mean Italy tripped with my boy. And it's like, you know we that like did it, you know, first class all the way through, Like you know what I'm saying. Some stuff that you know that's only there's a good dream about doing so I've I've done so. I did a lot of major trips. I've

seen a lot of major things that I know. I said a lot of fight nights to see Mayweather McGregor, you know what I mean. But like stuff, even like stuff like that, it's just just like like natural, just just like just like real stuff. It wasn't like, you know what I mean, Like I don't work hard to to to get up under nobody. I don't do none of that stuff that ain't me. I could do without it. Definitely not no dick rotting at all. You mentioned earlier about the notries from you, No, you were not so

happy with how you would portrayed. But what besides that? What else do you feel like they got wrong? That didn't really capture who big was. I just think just the success part of it, like it was way more fun. But then, like I said, I didn't know much, but that was just like a story told from his mom. That was a mother's son's story. So it's not like it should it should have been like that because it's not like mom was ripping and running with us. That

was a mother's sounn's story. So that's what it was like, do you know what I mean? I just felt like we've been through a lot and it could have showed a little more of the good times, like you know what I mean, Like we've been you know, we've been

through a lot. So that's the only thing that was like and just me like actually being like a drug dealer, like you know what I'm saying like that, like I don't, I don't, that's not my thing, right, what do you what do you make of his love, Brooklyn's love and dedication to him even when the when the funeral and the celebration, saying nothing like it in my life. It's like the president passed away something like that. That was crazy.

And then it's like like I've seen people that we used to actually be fighting with and and and people that I was trying to do stuff to us when he was at the peak of his career crying when the casket rode by. I'm not looking at that ship, you know what I mean. Now you want to cry because he's gone, But we have to circle the block three times before we dropped, like just you know what I mean, just just just weird ship, Like you know what I mean. So you know, I learned to love

a person while they're here. But you think of bigging when you think Brooklyn, like that he have that that connection that the borrow love him to death, the borrow love him to death. Man, was it kind of surreal? Like you have a banner up for him at the Barclay cent he said everywhere that that was dope. Yeah, It's just I don't know, I mean, what if All day I'll do a bunch of what ifs, you know, I mean, that's that's one thing that's the pressing too.

I have stopped doing that if you if, like so you know what I means I just enjoy it and just know you know what I mean? He is there. You know what I mean? He is here, you know what I mean. Like I said, he's the hardest working person in the game. Right, you know what I mean, He's still here. All right, Well we go. What's the goals you want to still accomplish? You think in your life do you haven't planned out? I mean basically what

I want to do. I want to be able to uh put people in situations you know what I mean. That's still grounding, you know what I'm saying. Like I said, is uh a window and in the lane for people like me that I know when I say people like me being like people have been through the same struggle people that you know, there's a d Rock on every crew, you know what I'm saying. So for the d Rocks, I would definitely like to give it a spy and let them know that it is possible to make something happy.

Not saying that I'm making it happen, but I'm still I'm still work in progress, you know what I mean. I'm still pushing to try to make things happen. And then I'm always just trying to put somebody in the situation that gets you know, a good person. That's the things you know you can't put you know what I mean, you put good people in situations. You know what I mean, You've got to be a good person to be in a situation, because the wrong person to bring everything down,

you know, I mean, that's a fact. Yeah. So that's it with me. That's trying to you know what I mean, trying next chapter, next chapter. You know you close this chapter by finally speaking, I'm good to go. I'll be back. Yeah, I'll be back. Fish absolutely, I respect Thank you Noble Wrap Rate on podcast. Yeah, no doubt, bro, Yeah, thank you. Right man, you got the well yeah, Rapperrate Up Podcast. Do a little bonus beat out? Why not over time?

The Rocks artist is down here. What's going on? Brother? Introduce yourself? But listen is this is Chris Martin straight total king stunt Jamerico. You got some Kingston Jamaican rappers, got some balls and everything's going on. Man, you gotta explay this man, Yeah, I mean ship why not? You know, I am Jamaican just f y you know. So we've

seen this video. Man, what's going on with good morning? Uh, we're just here, you know what I mean, working on the craft, paying respect to the game, to the culture, and just trying to you know, not change the blueprint, do what we do, do what we know we feel is best. Yeah. So who did you grow up listening to? Uh? In Kingston um a girl listening to various artists from reggae to hip hop to scare um to like sold jazz,

you know what I mean. So from Bob Marley, Dennis Brown, Marvin Gay Noise you know, play a huge influence in my creativity and this the genre hip hop music, Biggie definitely um jay Z. Yeah right there says a bracketing which I ssume my own him. Okay, Yeah, So how did this connection with the back happened from your perspective? Like, and why do you feel like this is the right brother to be a business? Way to really your craft?

First of all, I had a friend, a friend of mine from a long time ago, you know what I mean, had linked up with his papers and hand him the music and then he heard the music. It was a video actually tiedle fox only and instantly just showed me, you know, and just the vibe from over the phone. It was just it was really. Um, it was just it happened at the right moment, you know what I mean, and I was in a situation it just felt right, and we continue to speak and then we met each other,

you know what I mean. Just a rightress, conscious, clean hearted individuals, these guys, you know, So it was just it was easy beyond the music. Just yeah, definitely, definitely you've had those moments that by going to get you on and help you oh of course, of course, and some people, you know, it's not necessarily get you on, it's more so to take from you, you know. So you have those who give, and then you know they receive a blessing separately different from what they added to.

You know, they just get a whole different situation. So you know, the iraqis as upstanding individual in society out here in the world, did you know. Yeah, definitely, it's knowing. It's knowing. It's been years, it's knowing. Right. Do you think you have an advantagement? People would think reggae on the surface, but this is some hardcore hip hop, this is East Coast, this is like you see the visual. Yeah, advantage,

definitely an advantage, you know what I mean. Um, he's putting pain into the game you guys cover just now you know, learning everything and reviewing it. So I definitely have an advantage and definitely just have a more a better guidance in the depth of what to do and how to execute it within strategy and developing you know, as an artist, you know. So I think it's definitely an advantage from that perspective. Do you feel like it's more pressure though, um being because like I said earlier,

you know this is bigs friend. Yeah, definitely definitely you know, pressuring, yes, but when you're when you're trying to acquire and you're aspiring to be great, it's not as pressure and it's not a pressure and feeling so more so anxiety to cover certain grounds. But it's not like irvy sort you know what I'm saying, Like damn, Like you know, it's more so blessing, you know, I'm I'm grateful for it.

And speaking of how he feels a lack of an importance on lyricism, now that that's why is that important to you? Um? Lyricism For me, I mean just swimming through different genres from growing up on reggae, you know, then being introduced to hip hop. Um, I find that in a reggae I was able to express like emotion, and in hip hop you had an importance of lyricism which enable me to tell a story, you know what I mean. So I always liked the swing of melody

and feeling in music. So the lyricism, I think was a component that was missing in my artistry that I needed to express myself. You know, in hip hop. The hip hop that I was listening to at that time had an emphasis placed on lyricism and content and storytelling. And you could discover a place or you know, know about places when I was living on an island, just from listening to the music. So yeah, yeah, so I

take lyricism on content, you know, very seriously. In my crowd, we don't have a bee, could we hear a little bit before we go? But I feel like we might need this in this case. Show Uh, Mama had a son and a daughter. She had to be mother and father, crossing the border, flying over the water, came to America. That's when we were smaller. We were having dreams in a little apartment four ym in the morning. I know my neighbor was probably hear me recording sixteen eleven. This

is where it all started. Never forget the lesson poverty taught us. If you're going through hell, keep going, my nigga, keep going, not knowing how the ship might work out. Life's like having your first child of pain was worthwhile. This is Eminemo eight mile Tupac on trial, Babie ready to die. That's my breakthrough. Where to Mary J. Blige, They love and hate you. Look at Nicki Minaj, Chris Matick, Key Amatic, big up to Nas Tyler quality. The things we do to get by. I made it out to struggle.

I happened to beat the odds. Greatness is happening now. I feel the vibes looking to the sky with stars and dreams collide. Obsessed, some success become suicide. Your price can lead it to your demise. I kept trying. I got tired of seeing my mama crying. You know what I mean? Just basically that you know, Christmas again, Brooklyn Lessons lessons so ever since you dropped calories, man, it feel like there's a little bit of buzz around and

you heard that the phone has been clicking ever since. Yeah, you know, give it the point the year. It's not as individually, Yeah, man, you know what I mean. I think you know good at track good, great that track grid, developing, you know what I mean, development, more to come, more to come, And yeah, Calorie has definitely been a positive impact. Part definitely been attracting positivity. It's been a lot of love. I haven't felt any or any you know, strong disliking

thus far. So that positive run. I mean, I'm meeting you, you know what I mean, legendering, feeling what you're doing. Time time, So what we look for next? Before as I saying earlier too, we're just doing a quick three pack freestyle, you know, so just a quick couple of freestyles. Paying how muche to New York prod. Of course, of course I want to have long lived prodigy. You know what I mean, big respect to everything that he has done,

and condolence system family. We'll miss you, you know, along with Biggie, along with every grade. You know what I mean. Say, yeah, how for do that one? So more freestyles and then yeah, more freestyles and then you know what I mean, the spice coming coming. I'm waiting for it. Appreciate music baby, Yeah that podcast River