Rap Radar Rewind: Andre Harrell

the legendary Andre Hourelle. Well whatever, I'm glad I call you Dre, Sir. Yeah, you called me. You gotta you gotta call him. Birthday boy, happy belated later. But yesterday, man, how do you say a break? Uh? To be honest, I just rested up. I was tired from the trip in the l A and doing radio all yesterday. Oh man, I didn't do anything big. I just working because of this revolte man puff got you working, man Scott, Yeah, got to make him, used to make him work hard.

Now you're making you're making you work on. I'm um, yeah, I'm going in the jungle, coming out with the lion's head. So you're in charge of this Provote conferenceman third year. Third year. It's a combination of music, social media and technology promoting music innovation. And we bring over seventy panelists down and we bring about fifteen different new and upcoming artists and then we always give away the big award.

This year we're given the award to uh NAS and it's called the Vote Jimmy I V and Icon Award, and Nas will be the first artist. I saw you backing him up, and I think in the Breakfast Club thing you somehow he had the Queen's Bridge venures. A lot of cast don't know the Nazis about his business. How did you hear that? That didn't even come out radio? You was you was up there? No, it was on the Breakfast Club. I think I saw the video was just big c. I just did that this morning. No,

maybe the previous interview you also backed them up. That's probably what it was. Okay, you like that NAS guy. Now I like NAS because that's the thing about we're going back to the history with uptowning Like you're very selective. You like you look at the roster. You wasn't like you don't give compliments out you're very selective, high level

of taste. So the fact that you keep bigging up Nas, I just think it's you know, he's earned that at you paying attention, you're paying attention, and really, yeah, I likens like I really got to know him after I moved out to l A and I became vice chair

for Vote, we started to bumping each other more. And I've always appreciated his work as an artist, but then once I got to know him, he's really a smart cat, really you know, pro black, really about his business, really doing interesting things, like the fact that he got Queen's Bridge venture capitalists like a yeah he started, he's setting a new standing for what a rap star can do. Yeah, he's a fucking venture capital exactly, exactly, intef right exactly.

So with the Revote Music Conference, how is like, what do you think it's been growing over the last two or three years? I think because there's really no other real music conference that the record business supports. So we get like, the first year we gave it to Jimmy Ivan after he went to Apple, can't get any bigger than that. Last year we gave it to l A Read. So we we tried to get um the people in tech involved. We try to get the people on social media involved. And when I say that, we try to

get the founders involved. So it's kind of like a tech conference meets Jack the Rapper about those people that don't know you hear about these legendary conferences that we knew about the nineties, Like, how can I be down Jack the Rapper? I think, what do you think differentiates Revolt from from those times? What's in this new era? What the difference is? One radio was a driving factor

behind the other conferences. What happened was major labels would fly in big time program directors, and then all the other labels would go and support and have showcases for their artists. Now not so much terrestrial radio. Now it could be streaming to rest your radio and social media that get the buzz out. So now we we we messed it up across the board with all three of them. Plus we still do A and all plus we still do management. Plus we do keynote speaks, like this year

we are calling from three hundreds doing the keynotes. I can't really do it right now, but I can tell you this. Three hundred is hot. You heard about three hundred. You don't know. That's pretty good. Is it hard to get these power players down to mind and everybody? Man, be honest? Is not that difficult? Like wow, to be honest like you do. You don't even rely on pump. This is all your juice to get all This is all me getting on the phone and asking them to do it. And we've all came up in a time

where we all gave back. So from Lee all the Russell to myself, we all were involved in be are We all were involved in impact. We all were involved in how could I be down? Like when Peter Thomas first deal how can I be down? He called me up and said, I got an idea for a conference

in Miami. I want to honor you this year. I need your support, and I did, Like if these things are good for the record industry, like artists get developed, artists get discovered, record executives get discovered and move forward, So how does you usually work for the new generation that goes to these differences? Like what's the type of energy you peep? Like? How is that different than I think?

I think the opportunity for the new generation is to hear what the panel has got to say to people who are in the game, but to hear it from a different perspective, in the sense that the game is changing every day. So you gotta go to the tech panel and hear what I Cloud is said, you gotta go here with Spotify is saying, you gotta go here. What the rest of your radio saying, and you gotta go here? What what what l A Read is saying like and you gotta take it all in and figure

out where you fit in. Before when we were kids, it was a simple path. We wanted to be and our director, so we wanted to be program that's it. Now there's so many things to be inside the record business or outside. You might want to go work at Apple now as opposed to working at Epic. Yeah, there's more that If you look at we had Kevin Lows as the last guest. He went from intern to CEO,

your protej puff went from intern to CEO. That seems like a whole other couldn't do that in this era, like really go from an intern to the CEO of a company. And one of the reasons you could do that back then is because we were boutique company, so you could have a personal relationship with the president and he could give you more responsibilities that you could take from first to home play like now, well even back then, if you went to a major label, everything it departmentalized

and you could only do what department. At boutique labels, we did everything artwork, video and our marketing, whatever it is. We did everything, and everybody had a voice in it, and it was very important that people understood what the

point of view of your label was. Were not just the artist, but observing Puffy in that error, Like when was the first time you kind of really started to realize, Okay, this guy's there's something unique about this kid, Like he seemed like he's bringing a different type of energy to this first time. The first time I sent him on an errand I was on the phone. I said to him, I said to him on errand to Unique Studios to pick up some tapes. We were housed on fifty seven Street,

uh and I was on the phone. He ran got the tape, he ran back and his tie was like this when he came back, What else can I do for you? I said to him myself, this boy's problem. He said, I ran there and I ran back. I was like, okay, that's a different kind of energy, and I kind of thought this kid is special, like his desire, his go out and get it with special. So if a person wanted to them to the music conference, do they get hired on the spot? Do you think people

have lofty expectations going into the conference. I don't think they get hired on the spot. And if they did, they don't think it right now. What you do you make in roads to network for future opportunity or to get your record deal. One thing we're doing different is um A lot of times when people came to the conference, they would come up after a palelace spoke and say

and have a question. So the moderator will say, okay, what's your question and they said, I don't really have a question, but I like the audition and they sing or they start spitting bars. So instead of having that, we we just decided to give a day for the people who are trying to get discovered and we call

that be Heard. And so myself Brian Michael Cops uh cool, Andre Uh, We're gonna be down there hosting to be Heard and people will come in audition for a minute and a half or so until we get down to ten people in the final hour and we're gonna pick one person as the winner, and that person will perform on Revolt a lot to damn. That's that that particular thing you can get on, but don't be trying to freestyle.

These panels man axpections of the battels. If you want freestyle, come the first day Thursday to be heard and the conferences October thirteen to the six team down in Miami at the eaton rock holl Town. Why Miami every year? Who don't want to go to Miami. It's local, it's easy to get to. It's beat. It was what else? Remember if that's not the Bronx Beats? It beats? Remember the first time you bawled out in Miami? Um, the power of Miami? I remember? How could I be down? Nine? Uh? Yeah?

Miami was always special? And that's the guy he's in reality shows now right. I agree Crazy Well knows. What are your thoughts on the industry these days? Like are you a fan of subscription based services and things of that nature. I think Beats is kind of interesting, and I think Pandora's interesting. I like pan Door because I could just go Michael Jackson Radio Very White Radio R Kelly Radio and just let it go and I can get that kind of music and I don't have to

keep bending forward and creating playlists. I like that. The old man in me likes that beats. Beats got all kinds of playlists, all kinds of deep music. Yeah, they got that. So they got playlists, they got they got DJs with particular points of view, like q Tip, like Drake they got. I think what they got is worth it. I would spend my money on that, and I do.

But how does that affect you think? It doesn't leave a dent on like old school brick and mortar services, going to Best Buy and you know, picking up an album like oh okay when it comes to record stores and let's not having record stores. That's that that that I missed. That I missed going and looking at the album covers and picking through the stuff, and that was a whole experience. Um, but how long has it been going now? Like six seven, eight? More than that? Gotta

let that go. We'll talk about that. Part of what you've been with Uptown Records was all about the imaging and the style. That was so important, like talk about the construction of that at the time, like even putting Mary J. Blige and those type of outfits was almost controversial. Oh, I started up Town Records. I had already been a rapper.

I was already been in Dot Checkleman, my champaign of rap album right here right, So let me into my MPM all that put your radio up because we are all So I had that kid and we were like a hall and rap group. So I studied like I used to go to pro Rocker and I would study

the attitude. So their attitude was getto fabulous, and I was like, now, imagine if you can have all these trimmings and you were legal, like the hustlers used to, uh have the teams back then when we go to pro Roca, it would be would be Smoky to Freak, it would be Tito Nicky Bard's nephew, and they would come with jewelry and business and they, you know, have an attitude like it's nothing. And I would say to myself, imagine if you could do that legal, what kind of

attitude would that look like? And so when I got into music business, the first thing I did was trying to do that attitude on guy. Uh. Mary J. Blige was the girl version of that with door knocka earrings and attitude plus style plus talent was really what Uptown Records was about. Like, we really wouldn't sign just a person who had talent but didn't have an attitude and

didn't have style. We needed the whole package. Is that the reason why you went to go see Mary in person at a ownhood and the reason I went to see her in person because when I heard her sing, she she was like paint up with an interpretation of an experience that was different and special from everybody else. So I said, when when they told me she's not gonna come down, I knew it was because she was shy, and I knew she probably didn't believe that it was true.

So I went up to snow Boyd Projects and went to your apartment with her mother, And I remember when I came through the door and I saw her in my mom's I told her, Moms, one day, your daughter's gonna sing for royalty. She's gonna sing for rock and roll kings and legends. She's gonna sing with them. She's got a real gift. And Mary just was shy and just laughing and thought I was just this colorful black person talking all this wizards of obs, hoping that it

be come to a little black friends. But but but it did come true and it was they said, Puff said it was queen and get a love and you said queen hip hop soul. That's the urban legend. That's true. We we were we were trying to package her uh and make T shirts, T shirts, very serious, very serious serious. So Pop came with a ghetto love T shirt and I said to Pop, don't nobody want to be from the ghetto? Puff? You want to you want to be hip hop salt. I said, that's the term. And that

turned out to be determined. And we've been riding hip hop soul up until this is that. But but you credit Puff with the idea, that's kind of just take that hip hop beat with the prop came with the sound, He came with the hip hop, Mary had the soul, and together that was hip hop sal. I would since we're talking about Puff want to stay on there for a little bit, how much credit do we just puffectly deserved?

Like do we not praising is enough? Like sometimes I think about his career and you know him coming from you and your your tree, Like do we give him the props that he really deserves, or is it kind of under feels underrated as a producer. I feel like that's a common thing to him. I think I think Puff probably doesn't get the props for being the artist

that he really is. I think when you look at his his body of work, it's not just the records he's made, it's the visuals he's made, Like his video game. To me, he should have got a moon Man for just his video. What's your favorite video video game is? It's hard to match. So I think a lot of things he doesn't get all the artistic credit for that

he deserves. I think in terms of a marketeer, uh, in terms as a visual creative, uh, in terms of knowing what fits prof prof has showed a particular excellence. But I do think he gets his props. The only thing I don't think he gets his process for is his visuals, his videos. I think he made some of the best videos, and you've give him prosper really crafting that Mary J. Blodge image with the first album. Talk about that, what's the fall we want to putting that

record together? Like what was your observations and how that record came together? I remember when they would come back to play the record for me, I would say, Yo, there's no change in the record, like a regular structured song. It would just be the bet and they said and they were you know and f uh Dave Hall. They'd be like yeah, and we're rocking their head like yeah, like I was. And I was like, okay, I guess so. But they came with the no changes, just the knock

in terms of the arrangements. In terms of the arrangements, yes, and Mary had a particular way of singing things and she could wrap two. She loved Mary. Mary was the real thing, the inner city treasure. And I think it came at the time where the new jack swing was was dying and hip hop was on way up and R and B. If you're a young producer, you didn't want to make soft sound because the hard thing was not.

So when they decided to use the same loose that they used the rap records, that's when we found something. And and I think the very first one was was the JODICI record It was coming Talk to Me. The remix was the first hip hop is All record. Yeah, but then my Life is So Revealed to I mean Mary's second album, like can you talking about what's going at that time? And it's sort of like if we find that sound almost more arrangements in my life, Yeah,

had real arrangements. My life, Uh is the only album I have up in my house. Like that was a masterpiece because she was so honest in terms of what she was going through in her love life and how she was feeling. They always made the company feel like, if we handle this right, will be helping young women across the world, because it wasn't just love is not just a in a city thing where people don't get it.

It's across the board. You could be rich and I loved, You could be boring, I love, you could be black, you'll be white. It's just the feeling of women feeling unloved and unappreciated. And My Life captured that moment, and we we tried to do our best to make sure that Mary grew with that in terms of not just musically but as an adult, Like there's a responsibility that's

gonna happen with this album. Like when women come up to you, Mary, they are coming up to you because they want some love from you, because you understand exactly what they're going through. And they haven't heard anybody else say it the way you're saying it. So you and women about to have a love affair. How do she adjust to that? She at first she was non trusting, but then after a while she she she she learned how to trust because she saw it, which is overwhelming.

It was coming out everywhere. And so now when I see her, she she knows actually who she is and what her responsibility is. She's the queen of hip hop song and she knows that she's the beaming light of strength for women, and that she's revered by women, and so she knows how to love her audience and return. During Uptown's run, did you guys see anybody as competition with the face on the other record labels? I saw the faces competition because the face was something a lot

of records bottom up. I remember when I put out the My Life album, we saw three million, and uh TLC put out the album that had Creep on it. It's so seven million. So what's your music to black? The Uptown records? It's too black? I thought. I thought m c A wasn't giving us the right money to cross it over pop. That's what I thought. Getting some

kind of tention. Maybe, Yeah, I thought they should have just gave me my own pop department, but they did never want to give our urban label basing urban culture pop department that I haven't change the game. Yeah, what's so devisive when you go up to labels back then and be like this is the rock post, this is the urban department, Like it was all compartmentalized, and like

those worlds didn't meet. You met the publicists, and then there's the urban publicistm Like you imagine put out a record um with the culture of the hood and put it out the mainstream America, like put it out on ABC Networks and everybody can see all of a sudden, and not just that one. Here's another one, and here's another one, and here's a little Sean and here comes Joe. To see that level of effect on pop culture, there was like, No, we're gonna control a lot because that

level effect on the bottom line. We're gonna control that too, because we know you could get the two, maybe you get to three, but if you want to get the eight, that's that's a whole leother level of mine. You're gonna be telling me what to do. So were you in l read like battling on the phone and Yo, I got TLC. I got Joe to see real best of friends,

best of friends, the whole way. No, in a situation obviously, like people forget too with Puff, like they always get the rap that you you get tired of, the rap that you fire Puff and all that type of stuff. At the end of the day, you helped Bill bad boy entertainment while he was still there, right, I made Puff rich. You brought him his first call Puffle. I bought him and first called puffles on payroll. When he

got fired, he was on payroll. I wanted to give Puff his own office because he was keeping my office open late to two in the morning. I was like, we gotta, we gotta give him his own space. So when I was trying to negotiate with MC, had to give him his own space. They said, na, you gotta handle that, and so that bothered me. And then when he had the Biggie album, the President's secretary, Richard probably secretary, she was listening to it and she was saying, we

can't put this out. So she told the president, and the President called me and said, we can't put this out, and you gotta tell him, we gotta change it. I was like, I don't want to be in the middle of this. I don't want to be the one holding back the voice of a generation. So all of that led me to know that Puff was so big it was time for him to do his stay. What was the biggest there was, the biggest song that there was the party of bullshit? Was that? What was the one

that was concerned about him? Um to be I can't even tell you, not me and my bit maybe or something I can't remember, but they just thought it was kind of more violent towards women or never been hearing about that. So technically Biggie got dropped. To make sense at that point, we didn't drop him. We would have never dropped him. I'm sorry. Um, he turned out to

be my favorite rapper of all time. No, but it was just it was sign for Puff to get another opportunity that m c A wouldn't allow me to give him. So he had a bad day one day and it just didn't work out that day and it was just time to make a change. But the change I made I kept him on payroll. I kept his artists on payroll. He had Craig Max still Craig mac the Girl Total

and I looked over his contracts. I was like, go get the best deal, and I thought to myself that after me what I taught you, I taught you a lot of culture and lifestyle. Clive Davis song man, teach you how to make a number one record worldwide? Go get that. You have that, and you're try to look at your Twitter, but you have one simple thing. You say, record many that best representation. Why why do you think that best representation? Because it's it's a rarity that someone

in the music business is a real record man. And I think when when we use that term, I know l A uses that term. I know Jimmy Ivan used that term when you're recommend it's it's kind of says you know the record business from soup to nuts. You know a hit song, you know how to work a hit song. You know what it takes to make a star. So that's what I mean when I when I say that, well that change. I'm sorry that has that changed in this climate, because that's the thing people want to know.

How do you like? It seems like you can easily get on by just putting your record out, But then how do you make it. How do you become a star, How do you get noticed? The way you you you become a star is through the journey. Uh. And the journey is you practice in your craft, like you're not gonna be great unless you get up there every day and swing the back or shoot the ball. Those are

the ones who end up being great. So like when you look at jay Z, when you look at Kanye, you see once they got their moment, they never let it go. They never turned down the heat, they never took it for granted. They turned the heat up. So the journey is really very important. Like you gotta like it. You gotta like the good days along with the bad

days to get better days. And a lot of times now with social media where in the famous game and people just want to get famous, whether it be for records or whether it be for being naked and so and so. When when when your goal is just to be famous, it's not so much the journey you appreciate, it's just the moment to get to that particular place.

But that particular place is fleeting. Aim is fleeting unless you're able to be a part of the journey and and and really fine tune your craft so you gotta be at it every day. You gotta change your style

up and so forth. Like in terms of the actual music making, you think that a lot of artists make mistakes in terms of when they first started making songs, Like what do you what is that the certain thing you look for in music that catches you if you look for you look for originality and authenticity and sounding their music and the rhythm of their music and their voice and how they're saying what they're saying. You look for somebody who's not a carving coffee or somebody else.

They can remind you of someone, but not be that person, be their own person. Well, I want to know is when getting back to Puff real quick, he lived with you and when you let him go, he said that he was outside your crib and you didn't let him in. No, he didn't live with me. That he lived with me in New Jersey when I bought my first million dollar crib, Puff moved and they won. He said, we got a nice place here. That yeah, yeah, But when you let him go here, he said that he didn't let him

inside the house. He said, he's banging on the doors and you were home, but I wasn't that. I wasn't all like he said that. That was the day that it was. It was done. But the next Monday when he came in, I said, listen, you're gonna stay on pay roll. I'm gonna pay you to do the Mary day Blinde's album and you're gonna get rich. And he understood that pretty quickly. He got my life as a party gift. Yeah, you understood that pretty quick. What do

you think of today? Let Mary gets some criticism that you had that fried chicken commercial when everybody went crazy, and then I saw this clip of her and Hillary Clinton's like she was singing something about police brutality and just just taking out of context in the social media. Like what do you think of when some people sort of trying to attack a character or put it on. I think Mary probably has the most integrity of all artists today. I think um Mary is integrity brand number one.

Like in life, we make mistakes, so I know she the chicken thing she said never was supposed to come out like that. We spoke about that. That was a couple of years ago. She really tried to stay in her lane and give the fans what they expect from her. Yeah, and that's the thing. What does it? What does it feel that? What does it? What? How does it make

you feel to see someone like her or Puffy? Like you know, people are successful, but like you said, they're like jay Z and Kanye, they just keep going, they keep growing, Like what do you think it is? And like how how does that make you feel like? And what do you think your role hasn't been in that

in terms of their growth? Um. I think my role was to show them a vision of it could be achieved by achieving it at first me achieving it and then telling them they can achieve it, and then they start to achieve it, and then it's almost like Dr j and Michael Jordan's. When Dr Jake came out, he was the first one dipping and grooving and rockets, but it was new when Michael Jordan came after watching Dr Jay he came and did it all. And then after

Lebron came a billion dollar ballplayer. So each generation just gets better with the opportunity. And I think that once they got the opportunity watching it from the outside and then having it, it's different Like when I did it, I wasn't watching anybody else like me when I did it, I was the first to do it, or Russell was the first to do or we would the first to do it. When they came, they got a minute to watch to see whoa this is? How do we do this?

And then when they when they had that plus the opportunity to do it, it's I ain't not gonna be better than this. Everybody just kept going. Welcome to play a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it that, play dot it Hey yesterday raid Off and me and my partner beat our milling Man with the only opinion that maddess man here ra

raid Off. So what was that feeling like when you got that fifty million dollars to create the Uptown division of you know, for the TV and the movies. What was that like? It was New York Undercover fan it was like it was like we had I had the opportunity to really move culture. Like when New York on the Cover it was the first drama they have an

African American male lead and Hispanic lead. And for those that I don't know, you created New York on the cover, that's Molik Yoba and what was the other John like, Ama, excuse me, excuse me. I think, like I know what I'm talking about. It's the other guy that was in the Forget. It's the other guy from Fame. Yeah, it was in the Michael anybody Michael d Yeah, to kill me. And I remember I wanted to get Rotomus from Juice

Oh wow. And I remember I remember I kept telling everybody at Fox, to Chairman of Fox, Dick Wolf, the president, universal, that I wanted to get Vinnie. And so it was the final day we had a meeting with fifty executives the show was Ago and Dick both said, Yo, if you bring up Rotomus one more time, I'm not gonna let you. You're gonna be left out and we're gonna

keep moving. And I had I had a bad habit of saying what I wanted to set, but I had already said it enough times that nobody was gonna do it, so with time not to say it no more. That so working on that show and being able to put music in that show, um and being able to have appointment television, it moved the culture. It created opportunity. And when I got that that deal, we had offices on the lot. The only person I've ever seen who had an office on a lot and music was Quincy Jones Um.

So it felt very empowering and it felt like I get I gave out a lot of opportunities. Uh. Mr Hyde Alts of Brown. He came to work for me and headed up my television division. He then went on to write Honey with Jessica alba um Rose Catherine, who was my executive Uh. She went on to be the president of TV one. So it gave me a lot of ability to give people opportunity and also felt it was the first time we saw a lot of those figures go at Natalie's and perform live and see them

on TV. Like that was a real watershed moment, even as a kid watching it. M that was that was one of the biggest hooks. And I remember trying to convince Dick Wolf about James M. Toomey to do the score, and I said, you want him to do the score because you need somebody who could remake this contemporary music. And you know, Dick Wolf is a big television guy. He was like, I don't know about that. I don't

want to do that. And I was like, I'm digging my my boots in the ground, saying we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And fortunately when James unto me came his politics was such he was so sophisticated that Dick Wolf appreciated him and we got that done. That that that's how Natalie came about, because we didn't have a budget for here's the score guy, and then here's another budget for us to produce records. When these people call it had to be the same person who did

it so too. Me was the one who was qualified enough, who had a background in music and could make anything. Like I remember when he brought Bobby Won back down, uh and Casey and body went back to do that if you think you're only now And that was the only time I've seen Casey scared like before Casey. Casey was standing there looking at the booth and he was looking at me. I said, don't be scared, scared, you can see it, and he's that's about whoa Matt. But he went up there. He did his job. I think

he did. That's actually one of my favorite covers of all time. That and like I will always love you or think they're better than the originals, lately. It's pretty good. It's pretty yeah. But speaking of the unplugged while plugged uptown and plug can we get that on revolte like you ever thought about some classic do you mean to be able to air it? Know something of that nature?

Well we we we just started this thing carollss sessions and RPM where we we let artists come and play with a band like today Kalani is at the studio right now playing album with a band, EP with a band to give her that luck. So we are developing music rainated shows. Now, wow, that's the showcase artists revealed talent. But let's talk about people that don't know that was that was looking that? I mean, he blessed MTV with

that one. But I was in Barbados and me and Russell and Leo, we are on Christmas flakes to say that Christmas and um Tony Jordan called me and said, we're interested in doing an uptown unplucked. Now, no label had ever did it unplucked or ever did it afterwards. It was only in hip hop. It was an ll it and I don't think there was anybody else outside of LLO and hip hop. So when she called me with that, I remember Rust and Lee Yo was sitting there and I said that I know their faces because

me and Leo bestially was so competitive. Wow. Um. But when I got to do that, that was hard. Man. We got Jodices band to play for everybody, and so heavy work Jodicies band. Christopher Williams work Jodices band. Mary worked Jodicies band. Today was working them hard to the point where the band was like, hold up, now, we

don't really work for you, we work for Judicis. So trying to keep that together for that week of rehearsal to actually do it, that was one the hardest things Advo did because I had to keep everybody go and check, keep the band happy, keep performance going. By the time it happened and we had the party, I remember I was walking around the party in the days it's over. I'm looking at Pad Labell jumping up and down party and our senior party and wow. And we had the

Casey Mary relationship going at that time too. With an emotional performance was I don't want to do anything else. How did you mandl two of your artists dating in a very violatile situation, Like, how did that affect you? Well? To be honest, like when two artists start dating that has nothing to do with you, that's how they end up doing it. All you can do is manage it

to the best of your situation. Uh so. And sometimes it was working good because Casey had more experience in singing, so Mary would opened up and sing more around Casey and made her a better singer. But you know, when it goes bad, it just goes bad. One of the saying does the sad to see your time and go back for the group like Joe to see you know, some people don't end up having this long career like you know how talented they were and a lot of records.

Even when they first came to you, they had ideas of these great records already, Like so can you speak about their journey and how kind of went left in some sense? Okay? Um, Jared to see, they drove up eight to nine hours from North Carolina and sat in my lobby for a couple of hours, and I remember me and Heavy with me and me and Heavy in

my office arguing about something. Have you said it? Over the giant sized dictate with his big voice telling me something, And so we kept hearing coming talk to me like who is this. Who is this? I don't know who is this? So we get up, we walk around the corner and we see these four little guys in kurtuce Woodley's office, who was my A and R executive, And I said, is this y'all singing this? Yes, sir, you know they sell them your son Pentecostal Church board. And

I was like, y'all got more records like this? And they played forever, my lady, and I was like, okay, they're not leaving y'all. Y'all are getting a record deal today. That we put them in a hotel, got them a lawyer same day, same day, and and got them on because you might go down to block the death to him and get a deal or something like that. So I remember I moved them in to uh the apartment that I grew up with in the Bronx to give

them a chance to really digest the urban field. So they lived there for about four or five months, and they were playing music and so forth, and it was like, I don't know if this is safe for us anymore? Tight I said, why do you say that. We had a party on the night. We had about a hundred people here. They was looking at the equipment and everything. I think the checks up and they was ready to deep us up and and and it was fine because

it was trying to put out the single. So it's time to move them away from that level of in the city. How they had soaked it up and you could see it in their attitude and you can see it in their fashion. How did they deal with the fame of the first time, because like it took there was something drama being before the second album happened, right, I think, or it just took a while. What do you mean drama? Like I'm lost with that one. No, I just remember, like I thought, it was kind of

a couple of years break before the second album came. No, No, the only drama was we put out Gotta Love First, and that's the one they liked. Hint that the group and Puff came to me, lobbied me for weeks months. This is single. We need to be young, we need to be street. This is it. And I always tell my artists, listen as much as I know, you're gonna know a little bit more about yourself, because I'm thinking about all of y'all, You're only thinking about yourself. So

if you keep thinking that I'm missing something. You you you stay at me and convince me. Because I always put the power back in the artist's hands. So they have puff on their side, puff telling them how to work me. And we put out God to Love and God Love was not a hit. And then UH Distribution called me and said in Washington, d C. The Wiz this record is number one and forever, my lady, we should put this out. And when we put that out,

the rest was history. Wow. Why isn't Anthony Hamilton's celebrated as an uptown artist? Like you signed him four? But why like because because when his album came out, I had left and went over the Motown and it wasn't a big hit. But me and Anthony we always celebrated. We see something, We always sweet back and forth. He's an uptown artist. Can we talk about mostimes where I remember from me, I just stopp getting into the industry. I started like in the nineties and then like the

big deal is going to Molltown. I just remember that ad. It was in Billboy Uptown to Motown, Uptown to Motown. It's on, It's on. It was like a back of a chair and like it had a Motown hoodie or something like that, and you just see the cigar, you see Andre cigar, like it was just pop and it was like there was just rumors about how many buckets of money Andre was given and how crazy it was. So was it all that at the tough To be honest,

I was already a Motown for the time period. Like you grew up as a kid and you're you're you're idolizing what your parents idolized. Stevie wanted to dine and row or so forth, But you can never recapture what was till today. What was is always gonna be what it was, and what you have today is what's happening right now. So trying to chase Motown and turn it into Uptown to be relevant, uh, Like Uptown was relevant, it was just not the right brand, like Motown meant

something else. And at the time I didn't know that. I just grew up thinking Motown was they cream black music label, and it was, like I said, it was at that period, Uptown was the supreme black music label. So it was a lot of hard work and it was like chasing a ghost that you could never bring the life once something has died. Once a period has died in a new period ushered. Then you can't bring

an old period back. It seemed like after you left that you kind of went low for a while, right, Like what was going on at the time I went and became the head of bad Boy Records. That's from Puff, So twelve million, no way out? So so how did that shift of him? Now you're coming back and technically in some sense working for him, Like what was that transition? Like it was it was fine because me and Puff

always had a great working relationship. We always loved what we were doing, and we always was trying to get it right, get it exactly right, like the image, the sound, and so forth. So he was an artist at that point. So when I came to be president, I came in to be president, and like he was an artist, So I did mostly what I would do. Then when he came back, we did again what we mostly would do together when we were working at uptop. This is after

biggis passing the moment time, So what was that? What was that vibe over there? Like, how was it? How are you guys overcoming the pain of that and really sort of building the structure and a lot of people surprised it. Puff the artist now was taking off when when Um when Um Big got killed, I was the president of Motown and Puff was saying at my house that weekend. Uh. And I came to bad Boy a little later after that. But the loss of Big was

for the industry was huge for him. It was used to bad Boy was used, but for music it was huge. Like he might, he was one of the greatest rappers of all time. He was so clever and so and so uh melodic and his approach m He turned out to be my favorite rapper all time. He keeps saying that so he was. He wasn't a soul on him from the beginning. I guess when when I first heard him, I thought it was good. But I didn't know but

I had he d heav Dy was like my favorite rapper. Uh. Have you ever used to hear me talk and promote he d ship, you know, I think unfortunately, I think because of how great Big he was, and then guys like Big Pund that came after Heavy doesn't get the propers he deserves. You know, I p have like talk a little bit. I'll tell you about have I remember I got an invitation to Janet Jackson's birthday party. It was gonna be a Princess Club and I showed have

the invitation. He said, that's nice, and I said, you're going. He said, why am I going? I said, you're going because as soon as you get there, you're gonna get in pocket with Janet Jackson. You're gonna make a record. How do you know that, Drey, I said, because you're the bundantly d and when you start dancing so heavy, there can't be anything anybody else she wants to hang out with. But the big fuzzy cutting league dressed in yellows who have d what's gonna be better than that?

And as soon as we came down the steps, it was in Prince's Club because you enter it and you have to walk down. So when you we walked down to the dance for her dancers, so I have and they went to get Janet, and I saw the whole thing. I hit have like see And so by the time we hit the dance for Janet Jackson was standing right there. If we'd have took him by the hand, I ain't see him no more. For the rest of you. He

was he was for Janet Jackson. Laft. But but then he made the record It's all right with me with Janet. But even before that, like Russell didn't didn't see the talent or you sassed him up, like talk about what made him special as the artists like what may have special is he was charming. So the first time I met have I met him over the phone. He called looking for Rob Russell Simmons and I said he's not here. He said, well, can I talk to you? And I said okay. He said who are you? I said, he

said dr Chuckle. I said yeah. He said, can I call you back tomorrow? I said okay. So the next he had to get himself together because he was like it's on now. So he called me back the next day. And he didn't admit it immediately go on the pitch, he asked me, because I probably answered the phone like hello, he said, yo, you're you said kind of rush it, this is a good time, what's going on with you? And he just started doing therapy and had me talking about what was going on with me at that point

in the office. And so whenever someone does that to you and you realize you're talking so much, you're ready to let them talk and listen. So when he started talking, I realized he was charming. So when he came down to see me at Rush, here was this big, light skin dude, him and Eddie with this great with this great haircut, like my brunning cats really pride themselves and

having great haircuts. So he came, you know, Jamaican had curls, his joint was pointed up, he was dressed to Coca Cola shirt, brand new Nike's, looking like he was from d C. I never saw him as a fat boy like I always ran the comparison that hev d was like Jackie Gleeson, but not like Ralph Cramton, the bus driver and the honeymoons. He was like, how sweet it

is Jackie Gleeson with the cossage. And my goal was to make you not pay attention to his size by having him do slim man things like his suits with Taylor made so he never had a big man, tall man thing because they would be three seasons behind, and that made him look retarded or fat. So I get, whatever George your mind got, we're gonna make having five

of those and then he could dance. And we hired Rosie Perez to choreograph him and once you take a three hundred pile man and get him moving like he's light on his feet, start saying go heavy. And he was just a star. Well he looked like a star. He and the things he said, the things he said, we're so loving towards women. He um. He had a charm the way he would talk about, I want somebody loved me for me girls and girls they love me. I'm the old way loving heavy d yes and and

and vulnerability uh and and like a general giant. I remember standing um in Houston outside of the arena and we were there at three o'clock doing the sound check and half said watch this straight, watch this. So two girls coming and the girls come up, they stopped, they say hi, you heavy d and said yeah, and then get ready to walk again. And they come back and said can I hug you? And and they will hug have and have said they always want to hug me. Don't nobody want to? So so um he was just

even my first startist. He probably as much as I taught him to record business, he probably taught me to record business because I had to manage him and get him from zero to here and then he tried to run Uptown for Were you happy with how he took it over? I? I was happy that he had the opportunity. Yeah, Actually, that's actually that's funny you mentioned Lost Boys. That's my favorite rap album of all time. Personal favorite rap album as Lost Boys, Legal Drug Maney from Queens and Uptown

Andre because to me encapsulates my neighborhood. So that's like my favorite. Mr Cheeks And I said too because he was asking me, you know, because I'm older, obviously he was saying at that time, when you guys were making that music, I was like, you know, you felt the energy that that was our sound was in New York sound. We I didn't necessarily feel like I was calling new Jack swing. It just felt like it was ours and

it was new and it was fresh. And then to me, the outside world was able to embrace it by that name. That's swing really died out, like in the early nineties, and and hip hop soul took his place, like Teddy Riley and Guy came out, and Keith Sweat and I Wanted came out in eight seven Tuggy Fresh to Show, which was really the first dude jack swing record that Teddy Riley May. That must have came out around uh

the winter of eighties six. But but why do you think that your records have aged so well even though it has like a dated sound, but they still pop off today, Like when I play a guy record, it feels like I'm going out or you know, the longevity last well the nineties. I like the Black People seventies, like it's our era of chic partying, and those records they evoke emotion, a party emotion, a good time emotion.

Uh that brings you back as soon as you hear like you Here, Groove Me, Groove Me just changed on B forever. You see you here Groove Me sonically, and you see the Gucci girls coming down from the video. And then the other thing is that we had videos at that time, like BET was still young. BT must have started in eighty five, so in nineteen Um, I had control of my visuals. So there was nobody who was who wasn't young and black that could have input into my thing. So my thing would really hit you

in the core. So it was it was the sound was new, Uh, it was, it was of the time. The look was was a pure ghetto fabulous. Um. So when you hear. When you hear those records now, it reminds you of when R and B was great. It reminds you when you was in the club dancing now because us, when people dance, you don't realize dancing is different than just partying dancing and throwing your hands up in the air. It's like celebration, like rejoice. So it

hits you at a whole another emotional high. So when you hear those records now, you're not going to the club and having that experience. Now though these records don't make you rejoice. These records in this generation, they don't really dance, and they don't act like they're celebrating in the way we celebrate it, like they might be buying bottles. But that's a front we would celebrate, and then we weren't celebrating rating it's our birthday. We weren't celebrating our graduation.

We would celebrating Friday night. But look like he was cooking up these records to then present because I think you said Puffy would present records to you every Monday morning, like so like you was cooking up these records and then you would instantly get that gratification because you would bring them to the clubs and then get that reaction. The way the way I got my tastes for for

music is by going to Bentley's. Bentley's was a club on forty Street and Park Abnue that DJ Shulgar, Daddy DJ At and all the bad chicks used to go there. And you supposedly had to be twenty five to get in, and I was twenty one speaking in sometimes like that, sometimes sometimes I wouldn't. But the one thing I realized quickly is that when you go out to the club, it was the era of girls going out with for their girlfriends right to be one cute one the rest

of them some things never changed. The rest of them be like you just dragged me out. I'm just going out. I really want to be here. So you execute one to dance, she said no. You asked the friends sitting next to us dance. She said no. Then you asked the other two. So it's like no, no, no, no no. Then you feel like you don't turn around because you feel like the whole club must have just seen you.

Stairs into the dark part into the abyss and regroup, get your ego back, and then you're making observation how did DJ plays? Because every DJ who plays the club plays a certain way and a certain period his hot

records come on. So when his hot records would come on, like ain't nobody I would know to be coming from the upstairs downstairs the observation deck number one where you can see all the chicks and be standing right there as soon as Chuck comin Doom Doom, Do Do Do Doom Doom and stick your hand out, and it was like automatic, like the universe would just be moving out

and taught you. And I always wanted to make boy meet Girl, Girl met Boy records that had that same effect that had people getting on that dance for so for me, I always need to tell puff I said, you gotta show them to dance. You want them to do in the video? I said, because if you show them to dance, when the record comes on, you'll see that dance and you know you got good. We don't want to know too it did this happen under your watch? Horace Brown? The Jays, That's what? So whose idea was

to have jay Z on that remix? Because every time I hear that Okay, every time I hear that baseline, it feels like supper club. I gotta put on my good clothes or something like that. Okay, talk about I feel like he doesn't get enough props. Contributed Eddie f. Um, he producer, started his own label UM. He signed Pete Rock Cales Move, he signed Donald Jones, who was one of my favorite club club records that he makes. UM.

Eddie F was also a new Jack Swing producer. Now you gotta understand new Jack Swing wasn't was didn't stay around long. It was about a four year run. It was raps made an impact though, but it made an impact. So Eddie F was was was pivotal at Uptown because he would make records not only for Half but for other artists. UM. He taught Puff how to produce. Eddie F lived down the block for me, so when Puff had to leave my house, he goes stay at Eddie f. Sut He stayed at my house for years, stayed at

Eddie F's house for a year. So he was getting all so out to university information. So he became a producer out of that. So Eddie F is definitely a pivotal Uptown members terms of producer, Like you gotta say, Teddy Riley in terms of creating a sound. Teddy Riley, Eddie f. DeVante and the track masters not bad lineup. Was anyone that you passed on that blew up into

this household name? People asked me that all the time, and the answer is no, because it seems like as if you're your win loss record is on Presidented Well, no, mrs Well, when you when you get hot, all right, and you're hot for a certain kind of thing, I was hot, uh for great singers and great artists. If you thought you were great, you wanted to be with me because you knew I knew what to do with something great. So who was my competition? Like I was

in I was in the hip hop soul category. I could do hip hop and I could do R and B. Def jam didn't really do R and B. They did hip hop. There was nobody else really that could compete with me, like Quincy owns with Quincy Jones. But Quincy Jones was Quincy Jones. He wasn't up to uptown era. He was of a super error that we don't know how that works. We know what working Michael Jackson, but we don't know if it's gonna work with something that's starting on the ground. It has to be built up.

You thinking this this era, someone could come along with young Andre heroll and build in the powerhouse like this, a label like that. Well, to be honest, um, young Money, your money came with Drake and Wayne and Nicki Minaj. It's pretty good, not bad at cash Money has been around twenty years. Cash Money has been around longer than Uptown. Like burbands a recommend, we can't you can't say he's not. We can't say he's not. He got big stars and

he's got a lot of years of it now. But did you get this chanted with the music business because I know two thousand and eleven you had Harrell Records, but now you know it's really not that much activity. Well, well, the record business started to change in two thousands, so there the record sales that dropt. So the whole industry as we knew it was changing. Um and technology was

taking a bigger role. And so I've always been involved in television and film, so the idea of of Revolt TV just made sense for me as a music person to grow into the television production side. So I always feel like I'm involved in music, but I'm just at a different spectrum now And what are some of the goals besides the conference do you see for revolting you know, obviously now you guys kind of have your foundation now, like a really growing more and more. Like what should

people look out for a revote in the future. You think additional programming, good music programming coming next year, shows more original programming, original program right, this is my real what I wasn't want to know too? And were you actively on the set of Strictly Business with what was the vible? Strictly Business was originally made, originally called Go Beverley, You know, Go Beverley is Beverly Bond, black girl rocks. Now,

how did she? How would she go? Beverley? I had a crush on her friend and she was my trainer. Beverly Bond was my trainer, and the and and the plan was all right, I'm gonna get you off super slim and you're gonna go get the girl. And we became friends and I would take her out with me at night. And when she started dancing, whether it be street dudes, whether it be bankers, whether it be white boys,

they all loved her. And I started to notice that two things bring social classes and different ethnic groups together, women and drugs. You're spoke joint you will be spoken to joint with with the Duke of windsor hey, what over the shop and join you all of a sudden, don't matter what your differences. And if there's a chick there, do you know, yes, is a friend of mine. All something that's do is your friend. And so the movie was about a girl who bought all these people together.

She bought um Tommy Lee, who was in the mail hallroom with with what was his name? Got the banker the real name, I think it's Joseph the guy. So I bought those two together and they were going to be an unlikely pair. He was like an Ivy League guy and he was like a high school dropout. So because he knew Um Holly Berry in the movie, there was a reason for them to become friends. And I was experiencing that in my world, like I had all these Ivy League bankers, I had all these people I

knew from Harlem, and I would put people together. And the music for me was Micael Beverley. That brought people together. And I wanted to show a movie that showed the social classes blending together a great movie. Man. How was Hargey on the set like when she was that was like a first starring role, so she was unassuming, she was cool. Wow, he was easy going. She's still easy going.

You don't make a lot of stars here. And man, we we we came up at the right time, not wood right, but we're gonna be grooming the new stars. Man once again. Re Vote Conference. Let him know that RMC Revote Music Conference down in Miami at the Eat Rock October thirteen to sixteen, where music meets social media meets technology for innovation for the future. There's over sevenly panelists. Um nas this year will be getting the the Jimmy I v Revoked Icon Award. We are calling be dealing

a keynote. Julie green Wall will be doing a Q and A with myself. DJ Khalid talking about about social media. Yeah, he'll be explaining how he did it, how you can do it. UM have a and our panels, management panels. Beyonce's dad, he's on the panel, Matthew knows. UM we have a social media panel. We have music and marketing panels. UM. If you want to be in the music business and you want to understand where we are today. The ORLT Music Conference is a place to be because someone like

register or whatever. You go to our website Revolt Music Conference dot com. So you're not gonna sleep for three days and where you're gonna vacation right after this is over. I don't make case you right after it's over, um, because I live in l A right now. So like in l A, I don't love l A like that. I love New York, but it seems like that's where it's at, right, No, right, A lot of cats left for us, man, But it's nothing like New York. I

mean nothing like New York. New York. You can feel yourself like you you can feel this interview like you can walk on the street and somebody will tell you I heard you on the show and blah blah blah blah and l A you and you in your car, So you're not gonna get approached that much. So you feel kind of isolated a little bit if you're used to being in New York and walking and down the street and like for me, like a bus driver will see me. We went to high school with me hers street.

I'm used to that kind of know. To your credit, I think I think back on it, I think Uptime Records was the first label. It made me feel like this is New York, you know, just by the energy of the music and everything just being it was a different experience being from New York and feeling these records and knowing these records. What's the Fox, What's why? The Fox logo, the Fox logos, the cat, Yeah there's a cat. You've been on point all day, I mean super But

at this point, Thoughdre, what's keeping you inspired? What's keeping you going? After? You could sit back and ride it for the sunset culture, Um, I'm always I've always been interested in what people are doing, what people are saying, and how they do it. And I think that's that's in any record. Man will have to be interested in culture to be successful, to stay successful. Like once you, once you you don't take the time to listen to something new or listen to a young person's point of view, Um,

you're done. You will not be moving forward into tomorrow. I just stayed interested and I'm a good listener. Thank you, man. I hope they listen to nothing, gonna listen rap rate our podcast, enjoy it. Man. We gotta thank you and thank you so time, Andre Herrel up kicking it than we out of him, and wrap rate our podcast Uglier Alderm