Rap Radar: Kenya Barris

to us. But now we run after all the rappers. Right we hit these cities, man, Yeah, Man from Coast Weather, New York with it l a, Atlanta, healthy on the moon. We're gonna come higher at you man, Calli's house. Man. You've got here spilling drinks and stuff. Man, you know now, but we got one thing I was thinking, Man, we gotta let me two people know who we are. Man. I know we've been ripping the run with this new season of Rapperate Up Podcast, But everybody might not know

who Elliot Wilson is. I know it's hard to believe, but they might not know who Brian beat Out Miller is. Man, so easy to believe beat beat up. What's what's been your journey? Man? How could you sum up you? What makes you special? Man? What's cool? On? Brian beat out Miller? And you know, I mean just a guy from queens Man, just coming up in the journalism. We used to work together double xcel and fast forward almost what thirteen fourteen years later he started doing the website and we evolved

into and doing this podcast thing. Man. Yeah, I mean it's my thirty if you're in the game, like he said, you know EXXL I started that. I'll started working at ninety nine and I used to think I could beat the Source magazine in the year or two. It took me forever. By the time I didn't beat I joined the team, that's like oh five, and then like he said, you know, they fired me. You know I heard about that. You might have heard about that. I got fired fired

two months later? Two months later? Was it really too much? Wow? See they set us up and who would know the nightmare that we would pair up and build the media empire. But the rapp rate up. We came into blog Ara. Man, what was it like for us? Navigan do that blog? Ara? What are some of your memories of the whole blog era. Man, the kids really picked that up now, like that was

such a magic time the blogger. That was just interesting because it was like all the rappers that you grow to love, you know, came through and stopped by the office. You know, Like it was cool seeing people grow in real time. You know, to witness a guy like Kendrick mar performing a place like an S O. B. S Or J Cole performing in uh small you know, little arenas, not even arenas like halls, and to fast forward, you know, to witness him grow into an arena artist. It's it's

it's a humbling thing. It's great to see. So that was a hell of a time man, for sure. Yeah, we had this office downtown. Beat that would Beat that was the contoit man. He brings the guests in. I wouldn't know anybody was are you gonna come out and say how to Macklemore. I'm like, I don't know, man, but we've we've we've gone to a better place now then that better place to me started And I gotta always credit Beat out because Beat that was the one who was like, Yo, we need to do a podcast.

And I was like, I don't know, man, r I p the Great Combat Jack. You know you had one Epstein, you know you have you know you had the beginnings of sort of this podcast way way back. So I was kind of hesitant to do it, but beat I started, you know, doing something on his own, and then we got with this company, CBS Radio in and we just got started. Man. Remember the first one was y G right, first one was by G, second one was E Who's

down with Dreamville? And uh we hit the ground front and every I think we did those two in the same day. I'm not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, I think we're dropping the same day. That was the whole thing, Like this whole thing. Now we come out every Thursday and like a regular cadence, like this is all new to us. We was we now we've never really played the game the right way. We just did whatever he put our stuff whenever we could. And that's really what it was.

Why do you think people care about rapping the podcast? Man? What makes what makes us special? In your mind? Like? What what do you what the streets tell you when you walk down where's the videos? That's what they tell me? You know the video is coming, man? Yo? With this new run is you know we've had about what six episodes and so now like there's no full video yet. We are the busness has to get the business. The business has the business the business, you know what I mean.

So we're working on some things. Man, the video is coming, to promise you. But yeah, the biggest thing is like, yeah, we went from like a two year high just of like where's the podcast to like where's the video? Right? The quality of the interviews though, that's what to me, most people look to us for, like what do you what do you think it is? Man? Like, what what is it about it? What is it about the rap right up podcast interview? To feel special to people? I

think they know that we're gonna come correct. And I asked the bullshit questions. It's like real questions that real fans want to know. You know, it's real journalism, it's real research. It's an incredible line of thought, and it's an ultimate conversation. It's a definitive conversation. I think that is lacking a lot of you know, in the space.

So you know, we're feeling that void absolutely absolutely. And Me and be have the debate of which is the best woman that jay Z and that Drake Man, which is the what's what's the bench It depends, right, I feel like the jay z one has been but five years now, and yeah, that's long ago. That's going now, right. Isn't that crazy that that's like long ago to people now, like five five years now, And I feel like at least once a week someone reposting a clip from that

conversation five years later. I haven't seen it outside of someone like maybe like the Breakfast Club, like on the mainstream platform, you know what I mean. I never did from an interview like that, So I would say the jay z one is definitely like the benchmark. And following that would be Drake as well, um study that study that. Yeah, those clips get repurposed the most, I believe, and of course the Nipsey Hustle as well, Like you know, people

like to visit that one as well. Yeah, we had Nipsey twice and a legendary legendary Well I guess today, man, I know for a fact he's a big fan of that Drake interview. Man. I remember when I came out, that's kind of one of the first times I've had a contact with me and it spoke to me. It was just like he just thought he was just so impressed by that Drake interview, and that was the beginning of us talking about you know, maybe one day he'd be on the program. When we got him today, Man,

can you embarrass? Man? Tell him ken you barrass is man can embarrass? Is a man of many many Uh, he's wearing many hats. Leaders, got a check STU, a lot of checks, a lot of checks. He's an executive, he's on the board at Paramount, he's a director. This guy does it all. And if anything's going down in the Hollywood, pretty sure Kenyan Barriss has a hand in it. Yeah. Man, his background being the biggest television writer in his business. Man.

You know, early beginnings of Girlfriends America's Top don love how big America's top model was. Man was huge. He had to hand it that as well. Then Black Black is really Yeah, I'm excited to talk to Kenya. He has a lot to talk about and uh ready to get into it. He's going crazy, man, He's got all these deals with hip hop hip hop artists right now. He's like at hip hop mogul Man, tobod I go to Variety's got a new project with a rapper. Yeah, he's in he's in late right now. He's working with

fifty cent. He's working with Fat Joe. I mean hopefully he's working with us next there you go. He is working with us, yes, right now, man, he's about to chop it up with us right now. Man. We appreciate him. Man. He doesn't do a lot of the He's got a new project right now with Kid Cutty. That's why he's here into Galactic. Make sure you check the on Netflix right now. Shout to the Netflix team. You know, we made history with that Jamie Fox interview. Shout to Sharn,

Shout to the whole team over there. Man, let's get into it, man, new wrap right up podcast special guests. Who is it be that embarrass Let's get into it. It was a rap rate on podcast. My name is Beat Elliot, Willson Elliot. We're here with the hardest working man and entertainment. This guy got too many shows, too many gigs, green Lights in the future, man. But I've got to know him a little bit last week last year, so you know, he's really a great dude. Man. I'm

honored that he took the time to be on the program. Man, Ken you e barrass I'm sorry you're talking about you guys breaking up. I'm sorry we broke up. Have no beef be that. But you have a new project right now in Negalactic with a gentleman named kid Cutty. Talk about that like it was so, I know that's a song from Man in the Moon. Actually, you know his debut was a classic debut album. Taking that one song Intergalactic and sort of building this narrative that can you

explain the process? Um, we are we got you know, we passed newly showed in passing. I met him a long time ago. My my best friend with them it's not passed words and secure Stewart. I met him um years ago in Chocca Choca Pilgrim. So we introduced me and we say what's up. You know what I'm saying. My kids are you know, fans, and I'm a fan of the music. And I saw him out one day

and we're like, you know, let's figus some out. And um, I was like, yo, my daughter who never asked me anything, like you know saying, now you have kids like the water who like makes her job and not ask me for ship. She was like, um, she's the head of BSHO at her school. She goes in one of those kind of like fancy her Westlake schools whatever, and she was like, can you ask Cutty if he would um

come speaking on the shoe? And I was like, uh, like what I'm saying, but it's like you never get those, and so I'm like he's gonna say no, It'll be a quick note. I asked him and he was like, you know, suck it. He was like all right, and I was like, really, you know what I'm saying. He came and you know, showed up on time and twenty kids twenty Black Kids issue. They had moved it out

of the B issue classroom into the auditorium. It's kids there, and I was just like what you know what I'm saying, and like these kids were fanatics, Like there were kids crying bases like Niue fan based in the spaces. They were crying, and I was just like it it got my head, you know what I'm saying, and never get them. Kids were like, you know, you saved my life. But I was like, you know, I really got into a deep dive and I started rising. You know, I was like,

wascause he's not that young. I think for those kids. He's transformative. I'm saying like, um, he's sort of in some aspects the email wrapped thing I'm saying talking about mental health. You know what I'm saying, depression like like a little it even like the melodic sort of like saying like he kind of in a lot of ways almost created that line saying I've heard that like Travis Scott is Travis Scott because of Scotty. Um. So you know I left that thing and I was like, bro,

you know what I'm saying, Like what was that? He was like, I know it was crazy. Look and we were like, let's do something. We've been talking about doing something. So we talked about doing something live action. It came in and went to Netflix and they were kind of lukewarm on it. Not really you know, I didn't quite get it. Scott Mike Moon, who runs UM Animation there was like, Yo, I'm in love, but we gotta get my kids love him. Um. He was like I think

that this could be something. He was like, we both for fans. Me and fans are like heavy metal of like Spider Verse, you know, like Mowanna. I still was seeing themselves with my kids. What I'm saying and we were like, you know, there could be something like I want to do something I love and I was like really, he was like, I've been working on music, and so I went and listened to it actually with my daughter the one who was and was like, yo, and that's

you know. I was like, this is it. The reference speakers know what I'm saying, cause sometimes everything sounds good. And so I brought my boy back this kid from Queens and he was like Marie Williams wo ended up being on the Run and he was like, Yo, this is crazy. And I was like, let's bring the cats

from Netflix and they were like immediately blown away. And we started realizing like there's something here I'm saying in the song, and we started feeling like there's like a like looking at like love Jones was one of my all time favorite and looking at that maybe through an animated lens that you don't have any the bout the budget doesn't have a scope in terms of where you can go, what you can do, and you know, we were like, yeah, let's create do something special like and

like it's the first time an album and a series of ever dropped with every track of the album relates to a chapter or segment of the series and we're like, this is something new or whatever. But as the music start going, the music started influence of stories. The story

started influence the music. We brought in this Kitty and Edelman, who created UM how to Make It America UM, and we brought in We started looking for animators, and we got this dude Flash who worked like, you know, he has a chip on the truck because he was one of the original dudes who kind of like, excuse me, did uh Spider Verse And brought in some of the best, you know, character designers, and we started really building this and we started saying like we wanted to look different,

we wanted to feel different, wanted to be have you guys got a chance to see, Yeah, the animation superb. It's it's I don't I was gonna call my production company we'll see productions, because I never want to say we'll see We've always but this is one of the first things I'm like, Yo, this, I think this might be something like and I'm just afraid to say that, you know what I'm saying, But it really it's special. It really feels like New York City, Like that's the thing.

So like its housing in Lafayette. I know where that is. You know, there's certain landmarks are really identifiable to the city, and to me, it always stands out to like you said, it's a it's a love story, right, it still feels rare for us people to call it to be able that platform to tell the love story. Right, we don't get what I'm saying, like love Jones like for our age, right,

that was like the last one. I'm like, really got their ship off right theater whichard who did that like kind of disappeared after It always was like what happened? You know what I'm saying, Like, but it was that crazy soundtrack. What I'm saying it was tone. It was like muted him saying was bright, but it was like muted. And I'm saying I shot it. It was like rain it was it was Nina, Nina and Lorenz. It was

all those things. And we we started feeling like animation takes so long you never really know, but things started coming together, like we got Jessica, we got Laura Harrier, we got Timothy Shalom McAuley Halkin, and we got Ty Dollasion who kills it. He kills it um. A lot of people came together, I'm saying, making and it started being just like really like a labor of love. That became a labor of like everybody started feeling like it's

a no hitter what I'm saying. We started like kind of like getting into it, and it was the music kept coming out, and it was I saw a cutty in the in a different light than I had musically, you know what I'm saying. I felt like I felt like the idea of like his melodies, his the way that he was able to sort of take ideas that we had for a story and build a song around them, you know what I'm saying, and create like as a real melodic feel to it. What are some of the

challenges and storytelling you through animation that you face? You know, it was interesting that was more I was more sort of it was much less involved that that was more so like a P. S. A. And I was, but the passion of like really wanting to you know, civicst stop getting talked in public school, which is crazy to me. That's how you get Trump as a president, you know

what I'm saying. So I got with Norman Lear and the you know, the Annaburg Foundation and Foundation that we were like, we should do something to speak to kids and explain it that voting, redlining and this and that that's what that was about it. We got somes so, but this was like and the same thing happened there. We had you know, Peter Ramsay, dis Stan stuff, we had great, but this was the notion of like I realized,

in animation, every single frame is intentional. You know what I'm saying, Like there's stuff that can happen here, happy accident, you know what I'm saying. Like I'm parched, you know what I'm saying, Like you you know what I'm saying, that comes on, but like every single frame, every single

frame is absolutely intentional. And I felt like that's how as a producer and in the best of the world, that's what you want, you want, Like you know, we got Virgil and I'm saying, you know, to be a part of his legacy and pay homage to him, you know what I'm saying. He came in and he was our designer, and we got you know, we had people from Clause or h Takashi, Uh Commy and saying we have been incredible and incredible. Other people just came in and gave us, you know, bless us what they're gid.

And I feel like everything sort of aggregated into something that was like a living painting. Um. And so I really feel like you didn't know what it was gonna be um and it came out in a way it made me fall in love with animate. Sure, I'm doing the Bob Marley animated movie for Disney. Um. It's it's kind of like a love letter to Jamaica, the way

Momuana was a love letter to us. And and and this helped me with that because I started realizing, like, you gotta go to Jamaica, we gotta look at the voliage, we gotta look at the rivers, we gotta details you absolutely, And I think that subsequently led me to Wizard of Eyes. I wasn't ever playing on doing Wizard of Eyes. I wanted this kid. I wanted man gonna flip with it. I wanted to write it. Always knew I wanted to write it, but I wanted this kid, Cole Bennett to

direct it. Yeah. I wanted right that he was he's his work after this is crazy and he quickly working and and ultimately they just it up it's a huge, huge budget, and they felt like it's a lot of change going on. Like maybe they didn't. They were a little bit scary. Got gunshot the last money and he might say it, but they got gunshot the last minute of the first time director of taking up million dollar budget. But um. They came and asked me. They were like,

we love how what you do with characters. They know that I like talking about things and the whole thing. The Wizard of Oz was back in the day, it was an allegory for the world, know what I'm saying. It was turned around, was a great depression. It was the day was in the dust bow. I feel like this is a great time to sort of turn the mirror I'm saying, as an allegory and what's going on in the world, and so that's how you know, how

that can be. So all that intergalactic sort of helped prepare me for for that, you know, in a special way to'm you know, I'm sort of I believe that as producers, like we that's our job, you know, like how does the how do they how does their hair look? You know what I'm saying, how's that? What's the set deck looked? Like what's the clothes look like? Was the makeup of like what needle drops were playing? What's the score? Like? How what's the coloring on it? I'm saying, how good

is it? And I think that's a little bit of that art has been lost and people trying to put things out and trying to put that I think the idea of like if you really if you can try to get something great, you know, I'm saying. I feel like it's all these people running around chasing good you know, I'm saying one great equals fifty goods. You know what I'm saying. And I feel like that really takes the time of really sort of you know, getting into it.

I think that's the animation actually pushes you to do and try to just just try to strive for greatness with the Wizard of feel like the whiz Um had that kind of feel to it. I mean, and that I'm black, I'm saying. I'm saying, and then I'm black, And I feel like that's the story I want to tell you. I want to tell you know, you only can talk from things from your perspective. I'm saying, like I'm setting it in Inglewood. I'm saying it goes underneath

um to you know, paper calling maybe underhood. I'm saying, it's the outside out of ours. Um. There's a couple of people as composer Bacon. But I'm really I love but I'm really I fell in love with I'm saying

I'm gonna love with what I'm saying. And I went and saw them and like they're Frominglewood and like the idea of like it's one of those movies where I'm writing the music with the with the script because it's the only movie ever that I can really think of, like it goes action set action set piece music turn action set piece music turn every piece of music turns you into the next thing, and so I feel like the music is the movie and I want to have

it like be reflective as so crazy. I was just saying, I think that sometimes we people like look like us sometimes can be our own alpha predator. I said, I want to have people have to be inclusive of everybody, like I feel like it's for us, but I feel

like the way we really achieve is I'm populoust. I feel like we gotta like get numbered and I'm not trying to like, you know, pander to people, but I wanted to be something that speaks to us for us, but actually, at the same time, if it's real, honest story against everybody. So they took a sound bite or clips you know whatever, it called clickbait and said Blackish creator wants l g B g Q characters and things, and it was like thirty comments like there you go,

messing up again. You know what I'm saying, blah blah blah, I won't be watching. And I'm like, yo, like, first

of all, Wizard Rises the gayest movie ever. And I feel like the idea that we want to box herself in what I'm saying when we do it, when a black man is doing something and I have something to say, and sort of like, I feel like some time we stop ourselves from growing, we stop ourselves from from the idea of like see it first before you start saying that, Yeah, like, let's give it a chance, Like let's look what it is.

Let's celebrate the fact that we're getting these opportunities, you know what I'm saying, Because if I get this opportunity and I can do good this, someone else can get this opportunity and they can do good. And like and we can can continue to grow and it doesn't have to keep being we're doing the same type of things, but I feel like we are sometimes I think we're our hardest, you know, Predator. It's interesting yourself procleaning black Dude from Inglewood. So I'm just curious rap, right or

what is your rap origin beginning for you? I think the first wrap aubum My God was I think it's like a junker sometime it makes me wonder how to keep it what I'm saying, Like, I think that was the first. It was like a light blue album covering. I think I just played that album out of over.

But then you know, I was in the West Coast, you know what I'm saying, So we started listening to you know, battle Cat, you know what I'm saying, and stuff like that, like you know, Egyptian lover Like and then like n w A came out and just like that was the beginning of Like that was it for us, what I'm saying, Like, you know, you were proud to be from because we had created something for us that was change, you know what I'm saying. He approached the

whole world in a different way. But like I'm a I'm a I'm a music fan. I'm saying I'm a music fan. I was, you know, I was a dude, was like like, I remember, you know, I would listen to Sweet Back for hours. I would listening to Porter's Head. I'm listening, you know, to Miles. I've listened this. I'm just some music fan. I feel like, Um, you know, there was this movie dot com Score. Um, if you

gotta haven't seen, you should see it. It's a all about score or whatever, and it um Quincy Jones said something and he said that music is a motion motion and it was like it spoke to me. I really

do feel like that, you know. I'm saying like there's a part where a Trent wrestler is um gearing up for um, he's showing the social network, right, and it's that haunting just a couple of keystrokes him running through the Hardvard thing and then they take that out and you're like, this is some bullshit, and then they put it back. You're like this one thing. That's how I'm saying, a change is the whole thing of it. So I feel like all of it and everything that all of

us do, like it's we're all connected. And I'm saying in a really big way. I was gonna say, you're one of the greatest television writers, and like when do you write to music as a backdrop? But absolutely I have. Chrissette Michelle's first album is my album. And you you find something that you I can't listen to something new. I know that album so well that it becomes background

noise for me what I'm saying. And the best book I ever read on writing was just Stephen King wrote this book called on Writing Right, and he's it's really a biography mixed with the writing book. But one of the things he said is like train your mind to try to do the same thing in the same place at the same time every day. And he's like, it becomes pav lobby. And so mine used to be a coffee shot and I want to sit in the same seat the same time. I put Priscepte Michelle on my

ear things and I just go right. Even if I didn't feel like some of my some I was sitting there. Sometimes I feel like, yo, can I give you bucks to sit here? Because because I was like I need to seat, I need to look up. And the hardest thing is like when people start recognizing and would interrupt

and I had to change that or whatever. But but what happens is when you try to do things around the same time, same place every day, it does become And even if you don't want to write, sometimes you might get four hours with sometimes I get too, but your brain will turn on and be like it's worked on. So that's something if I can I try to do. It's always interesting me because me and me and be

the backgrounds music generalists. We both with the double XL so we have a staff office, so we would kind of get to be creative and bounceside this of each other. But if you look at the TV, well you know it's the mythical thing of a writer's room, right where all these different writers get together. Like you talked about your early days of like navigating through that and like working, you know, entering these writers rooms with other creatives and

then developing your voice. Yeah, that's to me, that is that's my life. I love that. You know what I'm saying being in the room what you know, ten or twelve other people who are funny, fucked up, you know, saying smart, get your voice, don't get your voice, will argue back at you, you know what I'm saying, like it creates like it's magic to what I'm saying, and I feel like no for me. For a long time, I was the only black dude in the room. I was the youngest and I was only black dude room.

But it taught me a lot. It taught me like how to sort of like at first, I remember like I tried to dress like the white boys, you know what I'm saying. I tried to do stuffing. And then you know what I realized is like the only way it's really ever gonna work is if I'm me I'm saying, And I started like bucking up against that and just

being the best version of truth version yeahing inside. Like I remember when I would go on interviews for writers, I would like look up their pictures and I'd be like, Okay, this guy looks like a doctor, white shirt. What I'm saying what I'm saying, and I'm like, it wasn't working, you know what I'm saying, Like I might get the job. But then I get in there and one of the biggest arguments I've ever had was, um, Neil Neil Young, Right, I didn't know Neil you right, and the writers fucking

Neil Young, um, Eric Costello. I'm saying that that was Costello. White boys go crazy and I was like, I'm talking about it and they were like, you don't know this, and almost like I was like, nin do you know DJ Quick? And I was like, who sold more records last year? And I bucked back and we pulled it up and I was like, so you know what I'm saying and like, and it kind of was like a mutual respect, like the idea of like, don't try to

like shoot on my on my references. And that's why I started realizing is that the reason is hard for us to make it in those particular situations is we have different reference points. You know what I'm saying. They grew up reading slaughter House five, David Sedaris, Um, this guy, that guy we grew up reading, you know, maybe Baldwin,

Terry McMillan. You know what I'm saying. Uh, you know, we're the people that we say seriously young but like, um, they met, they would make you feel less than like you didn't have their references. And I started realizing, like, you know what, I'm gonna find their reference because I want to play their games. I'm gonna read their references. I'm gonna play the games. They're never gonna read mine because they don't respect me, and so I'm gonna be

ahead of them. I'm gonna figure out because I do think there were real things to understand from some of those references, but they didn't really feel that the need for me and that, and the world started changing and so they were behind and started being behind the curb. And I'm saying, pin a ball, and I was like, as always were, we learned two languages, you know what I'm saying, we have to sort of as ball. I would and say, you know, we speak to dual dialogue.

And I feel like that became the sort of change from when I started being like, Yo, I'm the world hoodie to work, you're gonna do this. I'm gonna sort of do that. And it happened to come at the time as the world which was changing, and all their kids, you know, I'm saying, we're listening to the same stuff as our kids, and they didn't have the reference points. And I feel like, you know, I try to tell

you know, right, it's not that the idea. I think, like, I love all the opportunities that those up N shows c W shows gave us. But like Iron brought was in the game. Um, they showed the game and it had crossed over the b T and when it came up, it broke every cable record, reviewing record. And I would go out every year. You go out was called staffing meetings to get in your job. You're gonna be with executives and they're like, well, what show are you on.

I'm like, I'm in the game, Like I'm not familiar. I'm like, you know the show that more people watched on cable than anything else. And they didn't care because it was like they were like, well, that's all black people like, but it's your job if you're if you're a television executive, it's your job to know this is a number more people are watching and so you should know the show on. But they that's how little they cared.

And I was like, you know what. At some point, I was like I'm going two buck this, And so every year I started selling pilots to the because I still wanted to be accepted. I know that because if I wanted to be accepted about those views, because I wanted to get in and change it. I started selling pilots every year NBC, ABC, CBS, you know, and um and keep myself in mind. But I kept the job I had was really lucky enough to get you know,

those black employers. What I'm saying that they were able to feed my family, and you know, we made money. And then I finally got an opportunity, and I felt like I realized that enough of us weren't trained. There's different drug structures, you know what I'm saying. There's different structures in those rooms, and they would give us diversity slots, right, but we don't just like black comics and white comics

on the world. We tell our jokes, we tell our stories differently, and if it's not the way that they say that we're supposed to tell it, they wanted to look down on us, you know I'm saying. But I started realizing that my job was gonna be just have a situation where I could bring people up and give them the training to train on both ways. And I'm saying so that when we got those opportunities and got put in from those people, we would know how to play their game. But we have played our way, and

I think that's what spite. That's what I'm saying, John. It's a lot of people that I have, you know, consider my heroes, they've they've did what I'm saying. I think that that has been really for me. A you know, a gift that like I gave myself and I try to give it to my kids is stay in your lane, I'm saying. But no, you know their game too, I'm saying, because we're always going to know how to play our game, and we always end up beating them at theirs too.

If they let us in the door. You're like the Black Griffin right now, I'm just saying that older though, well, you know I'm looking at you know, the people that you've working with. You're given a lot of rappers opportunities, right I saw that working with Fat Joe Um developing a probable in the Book of Jose. I guess we're gonna with the storyteller in the world's right. They can tell you about going to the grocery store and you'll be like, they check you out everything. You know, he's

the best story telling the world. He's a genius. You know what I'm saying. He's been He's the Puerto Rican and Cuban for he has been everything, piece of the of the world. He teach graffiti, everything, every k a big punt. I'm saying, like, and everybody respects show and he's just a solid you know what I'm saying. Tinto's down, dude. What I'm saying, Um, I got your work with events doing the movie with Staple, Yeah, we just did some evincing.

Back to that writer's room thing, I feel like his whole energy, he's excited to go to the writer's room every day, right, he shows up every day, you know. And it's the one thing I look at events like it's it's crazy because it's a room full of life boys, right, and Vance's pitching and show and they're kind of a little scared to him, right, And I'm like, I was like, there's active long beach cript in the writer's room, and

like they're afraid. I'm saying, like, I'm like when they say ship, I'm like, there's an active long beach cript telling, you know, and like they don't know how to push back, you know what I'm saying, because it's just like we're restive as a people, you know I'm saying, And it comes off but like you know, I love Vince because Vince is so receptive and wants to learn, and he's an I don't die that. He's brilliant, you know what I'm saying, Like brilliant a little, but that's what you

He needs a chip on the shop. And I told him, I was like, man, you gotta I want you to take uh an improv class and I was like, I want you to learn how to do yes hand, you know what I'm saying, And the idea of like you know, you have it, but taking an idea and then being like, Okay, what if we did this? You know what I'm saying, Because the way his mind works, he's just smarter and

faster than everyone else. But sometime if you're not used to being around us, we can come off aggressive, like you know, people come to our dinners or see us who like we the way we approaching it's just something different. And if you're not in that, it comes off a different way. And he was so open to it, and so he's just he's one of the next ones. You have a drum with sent coming right. Fifty and fifty we did we took the four Day Laws of Power.

Fifty probably does like you, Um, fifty scares me, but we're doing the fiftieth law. Um I'm saying, which was like you know, the Hood for day Laws of Power. You know, he got it and we turned it into you know, I'm saying a story of a kid who you know comes from you know, from the Bronx or from you know and whatever, but gets into Wall Street and uses the same ship that like we know and how they see sort of like make that in a

real world. You know, I'm saying, you've heard the stories, like you know, if you can, if you can take a dude who can sell crack on the corner, make him a millionaire, what could that do, dude if you actually put it on a boardroom like with those are fortune CEOs who don't the opportunity. So it takes that, I'm saying the premise and and does it. You know, I got to do with Kid Cutty doing a movie with Snoop. I'm a huge, huge j fan, Like you

know what I'm saying. I want to do whatever he wants wants to do, whatever I me and Parrell have to play. You know, I'm saying we and just saying my Fris absolutely a genius. I remember fifteen sixteen making rum Shaker. What I'm saying, like what I'm saying, like you know what I'm saying, Rex, And he was like in that Teddy care who else I get? I mean so many on the rap side, but it's like you're coming to hip hop mogul on the low. But it's it's the idea of like we all speak the same language.

And I'm saying like the thing that people don't think about, it's like rappers are poets. That's the softest ship you can be in the world. What I'm saying, saying like the core they're poets, they're writers, know what I'm saying, and they tell their griots and stuff like I story others and I think that part of it has made us be able to see each other. He was doing something with Little Kim and like me with Nicki Minaj.

And I feel like when I when I started hearing Nikki story, Nikki was telling me like she worked at all these red lobsters and she was like and she was like she used to take the receipt rolls and on her at break she because she couldn't have money papers she would go right a rhymes in the car on receipt rolls, you know what I'm saying, and take the bus all the way to the other side of town to perform in arts whatever the New York perform what I'm saying, And like, just hearing this, I'm like,

people don't they see the outcome, but they don't see the work and the sort of like strain and effort and energy and the brilliance that went in to get there. And I think that that part. I've been really lucky that I respect that and I respect them and and in some aspect they've given me respect. And you know, I used to kind of shy away from it. Now I love it. Now I love it. I know what I'm saying that I can, you know, be a part

of it. Like one of the craziest moments for me, Like I was, I would get calls from people or whatever, and I remember I got a call from Spielberg and were like, Spielberg wants to meet you. And I was like, oh ship, Spio works me got not ran. I got in a car and I'm like, Spielberg want to meet me. And I was like, it's about to be some black ship. And I got there and it was it was you know, they were talking about turning Indiana Jones maybe into um maybe giving it to it or so, but like maybe

like having a handoff. And I was like, you know, I went from being mad to being like, yo, you know what, it's still Indiana Jones. And I started being like, you know what, instead of it being something I run from, maybe I embraced the idea of like this, you know, if we can take these things and make them elevated where they don't feel like some black ship, like you're in the negative way, but there's some black ship what I'm saying. And I almost feel like I started being like,

I only want those cars. I'm saying, only one of those cars. I only want to do the stuff that like, and how do we sort of take and elevate that for our kids? And I'm saying, and do it in a way where it becomes something that like, you know, we can proprietor and proprietarly say we may that also, you like to got to Marry on rivera like the closer thing. I feel like when other projects are in trouble, they also bring you in and you take it home.

It was coming to America too. I know you Richard Prior, you're getting that together, like talk about that coming into something that so prior taking the line, Prior was my dream project, you know what I'm saying, And and it was I see so much of myself and Prior. You know what I'm saying. My dad was abusive to my mom. I'm saying, um, you know he had he had he used to chase white fame. I'm saying, trouble. You know what I'm saying, trouble with women. Just so much of

myself I see in him. And I'm saying at the same time, Prior was the first person that was like, you go to a Prior concert, It's like being in an open Cary state, right, because like everybody could get shot. You know what I'm saying, Everybody be co cool because anybody he came after everybody. And so I love it and like we were supposed to, Um, it was an actor.

I was gonna do it with excuse me director, and it was gonna be my directing, Like this was gonna be the one for me, an actor who's one of the best actors in the world. I love the script. He's like a brother. But he was like it's it's too, it's triggering. He was like going through sobriety and he was like, it's triggering. I don't know if I can you know what I'm saying. He's like a method actor. He's like, I don't know if I can do. They

didn't really like it was. I was in a depression, and that's when the wids came up, you know, saying I just came off every time I say I'm not gonna do Somebody Coming to America, which is one of you know, a classic. They came to me. I was like, you know, do you want to do it. I'm like, that movie doesn't need to get touched and I'm saying And then I looked at it and I was like,

you know what, but I have a way in. And I knew there had been ten fifteen scripts of people trying to do it, and I was able to sort of find a way in. They got it made and it's I think it's his day. It's like the third biggest streaming movie. And I'm whether you like it or not, I had my issues with it. It's the idea of what how it resonated what I'm saying, um So I feel like I'm getting in that lane and sort of

being being able to do those things. There was a moment where I was like, um, and I want to have you guys, I you know, I want to want to do my podcast that I wanted to be sort of a writer's room set up, but I want to be cause in the conversation of you know what I'm saying, and I'm meaning like, you know, you may not be might be the best, but you're in the conversation of and I want to talk to people who might be

in the conversation of being. And I felt to myself one day like, yo, like I want to be in the conversation when it's all set and done, like maybe I'm not the best, but I'm in the conversation of like if I do some things, I can be people can talk about when it's all set and down, like maybe I'm talked about amongst it. And then when you get into that conversation, I look at you guys like there's no I told you me in earlier room, I still want to do something like you take this from

such a journalistic standpoint, you know what I'm saying. The way that you guys approached this is not just like I'm gonna deal wrap you, you know, because it's like you know the way you approach it, it really feels like you are you're studying and study. You understand the ebbs and flowers. You understand how to turn corners, you understand how to sort of formulate things in a way I think a lot of kids don't really look at

and respect. And your students know what I'm saying, and you're also teachers, and I feel like to do that. I feel like that to me is um, that's the gift. I read that you have an I p of a movie that you're turning into a show. You said that you're really proud of, but you didn't say what it was. Can you talk about that? Um? Truman Show? Wow? So we're doing the Truman Show as a m my publicist here. She's gonna be passed, so you might not see it, can you know? Um? But it to me was one

of the greatest ones. I'm saying that thing whatever, And we thought, what if we did it? I won't tell any deal already, um No, but people, I would love to do it. And there's another one you was teasing for a while with Jonah Hill involved and Eddie. Also I did I just out that you can I did a movie call you people, Um, it will be all next year. It's yea. It was my feature director of debut. It was brief. That's the first official director credit as a I've done TV quite of it, but not as

a contor. Yeah, and it was started. It started off like you're not supposed to start there, what I'm saying, but they gave me because I had done some achievement nothing but like you know, it was John Hill, Eddie Murphy, Julie Rees Rifles, David the Company near Long Laurenland and in London, Mike Gaps, I mean a lot of people and what I'm saying like we really got to know put our foot in it. And it was. It was crazy because during the process and I'm really once again

something that said, we'll see from me. You know what I'm saying, I'll show you. I love it. We do a screen. I love you guys to see it. But always it was one of those moments that during the process something hit me. I think I'm the only person of or right black person who's ever written and directed a mainstream comedy like hund A million dollar means I don't think that. Then I was like, oh, then I can't be right. I can't be right. And I started like and I was like, I don't I can find

one like I loved him, like my brother. But those are considered for us, you know what I'm saying. Those are considered black like a mainstream. I'm like, it's crazy because they'll eat up they want to eat up Kevin and Chris and Dave and Eddie and eat that up. But they won't let us be in control of like how those stories are presented back to the world. And I was like, that is a crazy stack sense a

crazy thing. And I was like, so every time I got hard, I started remembering that, like the fact that that something something that should be so obvious. It's not happy, it's just it is. And it's weird too though, because I feel like the moments that I wanted to be like, yo, I'm out, I'm saying, I'm like, I can't because if I do this, and it's even if I fail the

black Sea, I'm saying, like, y'all can't do it. If I walk away, they'll say, see, but if I do it, and sometimes it's even kind of accept that it opens the door for the next person, just like Ryan did. What you know what I'm saying With Panther, I'm saying he's one of my heroes. He's a frame, but he's one of my heroes. Like he They wanted him to

put door iron Man. I'm sure you guys they wanted him to put one of those dudes in the movie, and who refused because he knew if he did that and it worked, then they wouldn't have said it was Black Panther. They would have said it was an Ironman movie, or is the Thorn movie. I'm saying this movie and it was. It broke records in sat Arabia. It's one of the most successful movies of all time. And he did that for us and for the next generation. So I feel like sometimes like you have to sort of

stand your ground. Um, and you know, lucky I you know, I wasn't gonna start, you know what I'm saying, But you know, hopefully it comes out on hopeface where I received, because I do think it gives more opportunities once again. And that's some jay stuff. Jay Z, like I, he keeps breaking boundaries and doing things and showing he it really is the blueprint I'm saying of how things you know, get done, talk about standing your ground. And you mentioned

this guy really a Shotkazoo who's manager. Um, you know he's currently going through his legal drama. Um. And I saw a post that you dedicate to him on Instagram. He talked about your times with Shuka and how you guys, Lady, I went to Clark and you know, from the time I touched down, Shaka was like he was the pd at at like the college radio station. You know what I'm saying, Um, uh, little Chris was Chris love Lover

on the radio. Um, you know poom was on. Like Atlanta was a different place what I'm saying, Like it was it was a graz That time in Atlanta was like being if you're artists being in New York in the early eighties saying, because we had Kenny Burns and John Hot and Choka and s Kier and Puff of stopping through and this person and know what I'm saying, Like it just was like a very interesting group. And um, Chaka just was a solid dude. He was a hard

working dude. Like you know, he always was in the radio, always was in the like understood business. You know what I'm saying, and was you know I didn't play the same way everybody was playing. He took himself a lot. I'm serious, and so I knew before I saw any video. I knew before I saw anything. Like anybody you know who talks to Shaka like it is when you come around, he takes care of you know what I'm saying, man of respect, what I'm saying, And I'm sorry that anyone

lost their life at all. I'm sorry any sorry that person's parents and family and children for sure. But I feel like we have all these people defending you know, the you know the law and the right to carry this and write you that, But why does that never work for us? You know what I'm saying. You can look at it. You know what I'm saying. This man was pummeled. You know what I'm saying, was getting pummeled.

You know what I'm saying. And get up and you have you know a weapon is legal, and you don't know what's gonna happen next. And you know what I'm saying, you you shoot, I did your You don't know if you're if you're gonna make it out of there. You know what I'm saying, and he was shot four times, three or four times, and I feel like this man is now my father. And I'm saying a man who has helped countless people and the same laws that everyone else uses and Trump so you know, blatantly like well

I could go, she's riding the face. You know what I'm saying. Well, you know I'm saying, I look at him at that seat in the court, and I feel like that's my brother. He looks broken, you know what I'm saying. Because it's not made for us. You know what I'm saying, It's not made for us. And I feel like, you know, I love him, and I hope this all sees his way clear because he is. He's one of the good ones. And please you have some of the questions. You know, she mentioned earlier, she kills

do it from people. Man. I know Shake, You know his legacy and how he impacted you. He was one of my best friends, if not my best friend. I'm saying. It's hard because so many people like Shake was my bestman, but like no, but he really was. He um Um tattooed with him. You know what I'm saying. We were It was crazy. He um he had a music credit. I co created Top Mile back in the day Banks a little show might have heard of it. Um, and I got Shaker, you know, music supervisor credit on there.

I hooked him up to manage Tyra. I'm saying for a while, Um, and you know, the thing was shake was our friendship was so special because when you know, I went a lot of people do with music what I'm saying. When I was going my route, I was one of them. You know, I was the only dude, and but I got you had some success, and he never needed anything from me, and I never needed anything for him. And so because of that, it was a

purity in our friendship, was saying. And I think that that was we were coming up together to like have somebody you could talk about things that you knew wasn't like leaning and needing something from you and he I wasn't. That It created this amazing purity for us. And we actually had um a place written. Two weeks from then, we were supposed to go to Saint Barts for a family I was gonna be my first, like you know, baller, Like I'm kind of like that was gonna be my first.

We're taking our families there um, and you know he had been going through some hard times what I'm saying, and having struggles that I didn't really know about. He was kind of hear from me, and you know I knew some some things are going on in his life, but you know it's just you know, depression and stress and all that stuff. It's really hard. But like he was and he's a legend. I'm saying, like Rick Ross Jeezy, I remember he came into my house, know what I'm saying.

I remember he came to my house and played let it Burn, what I'm saying, And we just sat in the card we both are going through ship with our girl, and he's like, I was just like, man, that's some must burn. Man. You put that, you put an ending on Blackish. Man, please talk about you know that that journey like when you look back at it now with you,

you know obviously with your career break you. I feel like a lot of times I see your Instagram, You'll be like, I can't even fully express how to change my life? Right and changed my life. I'm gonna say awfully good, but no, it changed my life. It gave me financially, I had gotten some success with Tom her Motter was the first thing that gave me, Like, you know, as a writer, I was a p A and then as a writer, you make good money, I'm saying, as

a television writer. Like kids know what I'm saying, dude, Like you make doctor money, you know what, but you also are trying to live at Hollywood life. You couldn't. Just I was making good money. My wife's a doctor, so we were living this life. Um. But then Blackage came out and um, I sold a bunch of pilots and it was financially um, just mindset wise, how we've seen in the industry all this type of stuff like

came on after Modern Family and Beat My Family. I'm saying what I'm saying, and it was it literally everything in my life changed like literally overnight. And I'm saying

and I feel like it was. You know, one of my story that I kind of like hits me the most, Like I went my family to the African American Museum in d C. And we're there from Easter income when when niggas just to get invited to the body else and we went and like it starts from from Africans, you know, imprisoned Africans stolen in prison, Africans first arrival in America. And it takes you up as you go up through you know where we are. You know, people

are crying and you're seeing this ship. When we get to the top floor, there is a television set and it's playing black Is and my family I was I just started crying what I'm saying, and I just was like, this is just unbelievable what I'm saying, Like it's unbelievable that, like this is my life what I'm saying, because this is not it couldn't have couldn't have called it. I couldn't know what was going on. I was sad that Shaike wasn't here to celebrate it with me. I'm saying, Um,

you know it was. I think that it had, you know, tremendous effects. I think I think it damaged my marriage. I think it damaged a lot of my friendships. You could damage a lot of different things. I think it also helped a lot of different things. Like you know, it's it was. You know, we've all had those moments, but like it's a really all of this ship for us is first generation. You know what I'm saying, Like there's no like, we don't have no blueprint before we

were on the Mayflower, you know what I'm saying. So how to handle it, the effect of it, all that type of stuff. But it was you know, I got to watch that with my kids and I can never get taken from me. Every you know, Wednesday, we would sit and watch it. Remember one of the episodes that affected me the most is um my older son Pops. It was like nine eight nine and Jack who he you know, he says, like Jack is based on him,

mot is some pops um. But Jack Hauld lied I was supposed to get a whooping bow has said when when your father comes on, he's gonna beat your guys, right, And so he comes in like into the room to get a spank and he has like seven jackets Ons what I'm saying, and it's that classic you know. Dre's like, you know, I'm I'm just disappointed you And that was worse than the spanking. And he like walks out, and my son, who've been sitting there watually gets up and

he goes, that was a close one. And I was lying, No, one can never take this from me, you know what I'm saying. I got to grow up. You got to do this show with my family and they got to see themselves grow up, and so it was, you know, it was that part of like just so many things I just never in years would have imagine could become my life and like that big in particular those moments and what black Ish did, you know, the things we

were able to talk about. What I'm saying. So many of my friends were like, I didn't know that I'm saying one of the biggest, you know, moments, like you know, a super moment. Like I was in the writer's room with Jonathan Roth, who was my partner, right dude, and I was like, y'all be right back when I gotta go to haircut, be late, And He's like, did you just get your haircut last week? I was like, yeah, Jonathan, I get my hair cut every week. Stay so short. I was like, did you not know my hair He

was like I could tell. I think it didn't right, And I was like, how did you get your hair cut? He was like, I don't know, every two or three months. I said every two or three months. Yeah. I was like what I'm saying, And I realized these are two different and be sitting next to each other, and we never had that conversation, and so that conversation turned into a room conversation. But I think the room is so important and we started identifying the way I never thought.

But that's why the barbershop for us, it's so important because a lot of times it's a single, single moms, right, I'm saying, a lot of times, like you know you're dusty, here's a place where there's a where there's a man, what a job working, Gonna be there when you need him. Makes you feel better about yourself when you when you cut, when you leave them, when you came out there, you soak up game from the neighborhood that you never hear. And it's this, it's this part of our culture that like,

that's why it's so important. And I'm saying, our hair in a big way was a big differentiator between us and the rest of the world. You know what I'm saying. We've had hair issues or whatever, and I was like, this is something to talk about and to be able to have a show that we can talk about that. And so I had so many of my white friends,

like I never thought about that. I had some of my black friends, never to say, like, I never thought about it in aspect, and so to be able to have something that could almost ask serve as like a cultural time capsule and what I'm saying for us to sort of talk about things. And you know, I got a lot of criticism not writing for white people. I'm like, no, I'm not writing for everybody. But I don't need to explain it to us. We got it, you know what

I'm saying. I need to sort of show them and you give them the humanity that they have taken from us. And then to say, just let them know that we live and breathe and love our kids and our family and have things that just like you doing. So having that vehicle, you know what I'm saying, it was amazing. You have to be super proud of the young lady that's on the show. She's directed. Now, it's crazy. It's crazy. I was saying, Mark Yard is going to be president,

what I'm saying. And Marseille is you know, I think she was the youngest ep in history. Marseille Um. The first episode of Black Is, she did some we had the hair department wrapped her hair when she's going to bed, right, just something normal next week it was letters emost powered everywhere, right, And I'm like, people were like, I never saw that. I never saw myself. We do. And I realized there had not been a show there have been like that.

We hadn't. That's how a few opportunities. People didn't know that something was so common for us. We hadn't just shown some of the minutihaw of just all everyday life and people don't understand. So like, I just looked at that opportunity that I was given and said, we need more of these, and we need to make sure that we get these opportunities. We really put our time into it in a way that's sort of it kind of fact the world. And you definitely get into the music

game as well with collaboral music. I'm trying you balking on Steve Burman telling me, I love I love Go Go, I love Rocko. Um, the music industry is. I don't know how y'all survived barely. It's a it's a different it's different. It's a different thest Man because it's it's it's bottom feeders. I'm saying, you have a couple of people who have talent, and you have hundreds of people around them who are just feeding off of those. Couple of people know what I'm saying and sign accident maybe

one or two. Yeah, it is a It's an industry that is really really, really really hard coming from where I'm coming from to navigate. I love music what I'm saying, and the gold Plant who runs my label is amazing and gets it and sort of talks me through. But I don't know how y'all music journalism those are two almost sucking words and fight against each other. Um, So it's interesting. What's what's going on with the podcast? I used something drama for that. I mean drama are doing one? Um,

uh we're gonna do Uh. That's a light stame. Butther you get business with anyone to Clark and he is, you know, people forget like drama, like almost like on a largely almost created the mixtape, you know what I'm saying. Um, and like said reinvented. I'm saying that in a big revolutionized and you know it's it's mixed. It's gangster grills, next to generation now and just like the idea of like his history and also talking about what where music

is going. Um, and I think the podcast it's as you know, it's the fastest growing for formulas, and I feel like it is, um, I want to do something with you guys. I definitely totally you know, I feel like I want to take and you know, taken and elevated and do what's the Oprah Winfrey version of like how do we from the highest level of be tuna do and sonically, you know, show what music is from the inside out. You know, I'm saying I would love

to by the Drake interview. When y'all did that Drake interview. You know, I'm saying it's crazy because I'm a huge Drake fan, but like it's there's whole fucking remember big ghosts, big ghost chronicles, like he just had a whole like when Drake raps bubbles come out to speaker, Like I was like, this is yes what I'm saying. I'm like, he gets so much hate to be so how can somebody be that great? You know what I'm saying. And like what you guys did in that interview is you humanized?

And I'm saying you spoke to him and like I think, you know it's I think of some some aspects, it's the same thing Kobe got in some aspects, right, because Kobe is not American kid. You know what I'm saying, Kobe is a really an Italian kid, what I'm saying, And like I think Drake's a Canadian. I'm saying a lot of times, the things that people may sort of feel about him, or the ways that he may come off, I think he didn't grow up in the same scenarios

and situations and culture the same thing. And I feel like the talent in the brilliance is undeniable, but I think sometimes, you know, the way he presents may not be um something that everybody you know, it's easy to sort of like, it's easy to be like this dude teams when he starts doing things, I'm like, you know what I'm saying. I'm like, I think it just keeps winning. What I'm saying. And what you guys did is you

showed me and you got him talking. You saw his brilliance, you saw his heart, you saw a little bit of who he is. What I'm saying. My joke to you was like he was like I'm a little park and almost like maybe you know, I was like, you easy to hate that guy. You know what I'm saying. At the same time, you realize every time he does an he's funny, it's fuck. I'm saying, he's smart, he has a reason behind the madness and whatever gis. Maybe so I think that that was an example of how important

what you do is. It allows, it gives people are really a fuller, more robust look at people who they oftentimes get a flat image of. I'm saying that interview for me was everything he's saying right here, this is your best interview of all time. I mean, it's crazy, but you got me, but you got me talking. And just in general, y'all, I'm saying, the way you present and what you do, I feel like it's it doesn't feel like it's soft softball ship. I'm saying, it really

feels like it's you're going after it. Um. I just want you all to keep doing you know what you do. I wont know if you're gonna keep doing it, because I've read that you know you and I read that at fifty you kind of want to hang it up, be done really, at least at least in the time. I want to get through with des and I want to hopefully get prior to done. What I'm saying, um, and at that point, I would love to like make

it where I am if I'm writing. So I'm writing one thing at a time, but I'm really more so helping other people, not for free, you know what I'm saying. But I really feel like I've learned enough now where I think I can really get other people ship off the ground. What I'm saying, joke about it. Yeah, like we joked the Quincy Jones years. You gotta look forward to your Quincy years. How you're moving at that pretty

your life. Your wife is amazing. Here's wife's helping me with my book, and the way she is able to see the world and she's been through so many different things. I feel like she thought that's that's exactly I said, you got a good one, man. But the way she's able to see the world and conceptualize them back what I'm saying, I feel like it's scary and I feel like, but that's what we need. I was just talking about

the breakfast cup. We need each other, you know what I'm saying, Like it's that old you know, we're stronger together, you know what I'm saying, Like we're finding the place like we need each other and we gotta The one thing I've realized is that the more success I've gotten, the more enemies I've gotten, even if I didn't want them, because people feel like I'm a gatekeeper and I'm really not.

You know what I'm saying. It might look like you know what I'm saying, but I'm still and I feel like sometimes people feel like, you know, you owe than this, older than that. I'm like, man, I can you know I'm saying, if you put me in the position, I can help put you in the position. But I I can't just make it happen. But there's a few of us where we can together make it happen, you know what I'm saying. And I feel like I was I

really want to put together like a conference. I'm saying, we come together the people who don't necessarily need I'm saying anything from each other other than the community, but like let's get together and like let's really start making moves.

Jay Brown, who I really respect what I'm saying. What I'm saying, and you know his thing is like legacy what I'm saying, and like I've seen the legacy that they're putting together, and I think it's big enough for all of us, but we all have to bring something to the table. Well, you're gonna keep unning to the table, man.

It felt great, Yeah yeah. Rapp rator Is Interval Presents original production from Hyperhouse, produced by Laura Wasser, Hosts and producers Elliott Wilson and Brian b. Dot Miller from Interval Presents executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg, Executive producer Paul Rosenberg, editing his sound design by Dylan Alexander Freeman. Special thanks to Charlie Jenkins, Tammy Kim, and Jasmine Sanchez, Operations Lead Sarah You, Business Development Lead Chef e Allen Swag,

and marketingly Samara Still. Make sure to follow operator or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.