Yo, it's the rap rate on podcasts. My name is beat At Elliott Wilson and Yo Elliott Man Tomming is everything, ain't it?
Yo?
Be out?
And now we pulled this off.
Man, maybe you knew, but I didn't know about Grammy nominations.
I didn't even know.
Man.
Man, like you always say, when you do a good job, the breaks go your way.
Yes, yes, indeed, Man, Victoria money on your Raperate Up podcasts. At the same time, what seven nominations? Seven seven? The god number seven? Man, Nah, that's amazing. Congratulations to her man or team like it was a manager that what's the managers woman's name?
Because she's all in female in power.
There you go, the whole team, the whole team.
The ladies was killing it.
Man, seven nominations is a big deal, says it got nine nominations, then the Ladies is killing it the Grammys.
Man, where it was a crazy coincidence that the episode we just released was the same time as the nominations, and she's like the second highest nominated person you know this year. So great conversation, well deserved knobs and it was funny off camera. You're gonna get Grammy nominated?
You did you did right?
Yeah? I remember that.
He was like, yo, you got that?
Was like no, what she said, don't Jakes be She wasn't real, She wasn't really receiving it as well as she wanted.
That's awesome, man, So shout out to Victoria's Man great album as well, Jack.
Wars Man, Jaguar two Man.
If you ain't gonna give the Grammy decision, give it to Victoria Man, give it the Victoria give. They need to split them things up.
Man.
Somebody said that Puffy stud about rmb's dad being one r and b out here serving us up man because for the big three categories Album of the Year, Record of the Year, Soul of the year, ain't no touch of hip hop, no hip hop, no rap.
Is that concerning?
Be that is that concerned? Should we be concerned?
I don't think we can be concerned. You know, it's all it's all hip hop on that end of the day. And not to be out done, we got another monette she's nominated for album.
But yeah, it's true that it's true.
I for another guests on the Rapper Up Podcast, man said we got good tastes man when we do.
The ladies in the RB space.
Man, we get with the best man, yep.
Rap right, I'll get to the money to the.
Mode man, right, shout out that let's let's tost some champagne and also in her denominations. Right, absolutely, absolutely make sure you check out that episode if you didn't catch it, man.
But you know that's a secret.
Man.
I think both things showed that, you know, I always say me and beat our secrets, that we actually listen to these albums.
Everybody want to be media.
But very few people do their research and really connect to the music.
And I think that's why.
You know, we had such a good conversation with you had such a good conversation with Victorian Money because you know she she could tell how much we respected the art. And you know, if at least the great conversations.
Man, that's why Wrap It Up.
Podcast is a platform for you.
Man, if you're out here trying to make some true art.
Man, I don't know what was where else would you go?
Man?
Come on swhere you can be. That's the reason why today's guests came sat with us again for the second time, first time solo.
Finally, Man, I didn't I didn't think, I didn'tink we're gonna get it beat that what's his name begain.
What's that guy's name, it's Letning mckelvy, bet to notice, Charlemagne to God.
With some respect on it.
Man.
We talked to the Breakfast Club. How many years ago, I don't remember.
Yeah, you know, we feel so connected Breakfast Club because like they launched around the same time we launched The Rapperator as a website.
You know, we were very supportive of them.
They were kind of the first radio show to meet to really you know, shoot videos and circulate their clips.
Through social media, and we was at the forefront.
You know.
We built a great relationship with those guys through the years.
You know, yep, Andy's great. Like I remember those days of Angela doing U stream You remember.
That, Yeah, she remember she brought the dog Collum to the office and uh they were still in magazines and corrupt, she said, corrupt freestyle for like ten hours or something going And even the feels of the U stream were like, yo, corrupt that chill man. He just kept wrapping, he kept rapping. But yeah, so we had so much a crazy history with the Breakfast Club.
You know.
Charlamagne obviously was the breakouts.
You know Starr.
He so he emerged it, you know, pretty much changed the course of radio and author you know, he does everything now. Man, the guy's are fucking He's a renaissance man at this point.
Absolutely also just did the Daily Show. He hosted a whole week long stint of that. Yeah, like you said, he's also at the helm of the Black Effect podcast network books. Scott can't be stopped man, you know, And I.
Thought we had a really good conversation with him.
I thought he's very honest about you know, his goals with that and very can did very honest And I think I think people are fans of him. You know, he does a lot of things that he's obviously he speaks a lot on the air and it reveals a lot. But I feel like, you know, this is a good showcase of like someone asking him good questions and having a real conversation about you know, some behind the scenes stuff, some of his aspirations. I felt like it was a really.
You know, strong, strong conversation.
Man.
It's always dope to have conbos with people that are rap people, you know what I mean. Yeah, we could have had a whole nother hour long discussion of just about current events and hip hop and our favorite rappers and things like that. So we touched a little bit on that. Of course, the elephant in the room, the light skin Canadian Drake, We talked about him.
We got a real clarity on that little conflict he has with him and you know, yeah, you said, you know, obviously was interesting to see his thoughts on you know, four p forty four, mister morale and you know, this whole idea of like, you know, mature hip hop albums and how important that is or you know, how the culture grows and you know, and how all of that kind of reflects the space he's there right now personally. You know, I thought that was very interesting, absolutely.
Man, So let's do it.
What with that?
Would he further? Ado?
Yes, Man, media with media powers connect Man, Media powers connected on one stage.
Man.
You gotta love it, Man.
You gotta love it.
Man.
Check it out showing me to God on the Rap rate All Podcast. Yeah, it's a rap radar podcast. My name is beat Aleiah Wilson here with a New York Times bestselling author. Hey, amongst but many things, many things.
King of radio.
Man.
I gotta I thought this guy forgot about us man. But he's here.
Come on, cut it out, man.
I'm happy to be here rap rate all podcasts and real hip hop journalism.
I'm looking forward to a real conversation.
Well, welcome back, Charlamagne.
Elliot said, I don't do this stuff type of stuff no more.
You forget about little brun.
Could y'all ever.
Be a little brun? Then?
Come on, man, it's Bett Elliott Wilson were talking about.
I mean, yeah, charlamagea guy. You came off a long week of hosting the Daily Show.
Yeah, yeah, I did the Daily Show last week.
Absolutely, How was that experience?
Man?
I can honestly say it was a very fulfilling experience. It was a very educational experience because I never had I never worked in an environment like that, Like the
Daily Show was a cultural institution. Like you know, we have all these conversations about institutions in our society, but the Daily Show has been around what twenty seven years or something like that, So you had to Craig Killborn iteration and the John Stewart iteration and the Trevor Noah iteration and now what they're doing now with the rotating guest host. But I think a lot of people don't
know the showrunner of that show. Her name is Jin Jin flans Jen has been there forever, Like she was a PA there back in the nineties, you know what I mean. So she's been there through every single iteration
of the Daily Show. So when you have somebody that is there and they've helped create a system and they noticed system, I can only liken it to probably, you know, playing for like Phil Jackson in the nineties when they had to triangle off into like you know, Greg Popovich with the Spurs, or Bill Belichick when they was in they hated in the two thousands with the Tom Brady's
of the world. So being in that system, man, it was something that I've personally never experienced as a television personality, you know, Like it was phenomenal.
Would you want to be the permanent host of that show?
I don't think I got time, you know what I mean.
Like, and that's a real commitment, Like that's a commitment that if you make a commitment to like that, you know, whatever else you're doing as a talent, you probably would have to cut off, you know, because I was going there, I was doing the breakfast Club, waking up at four in the morning like I normally do, and you know, leaving there at nine, So we didn't do any interviews last week, you know, because I was leaving at nine, so I'd leave at nine, yeah, to get to the
Daily Show at ten, and we didn't.
We don't take till six o'clock.
So you're literally the process of the Daily Show starts at like nine in the morning to get to a taping at six and you're done that probably like you know, if you're good six thirty, you know, And so it's just like that said, that's very, very, very time consuming.
But can you feel like you're pulled in two directions?
Because it seemed like we hell of a week and you know, Stephen Colbert and the connections that seem like you've sort of been moving in another direction or just covering politics and covering things a little bit outside of run with the Breakfast Club of cover. Do you feel like your passion started going more in that direction?
Nah, I don't think so.
I think that, you know, hip hop is multifaceted, and I think that that's one thing that we forgot about our culture. You know, we were all I'm forty five years old, like growing up most rappers were talking about things and socially redeeming value, like you know, my father would always try to get me to sit down and watch farra con speeches, But I didn't really start paying attention attention until I heard Biggie say deep like the
mind of fra Con. I heard some DC Farra cons of profit, and I think you ought to listen to. You know, when the X movie came out, my daddy gave me the autobiography of Malcolm X to read way before that, and I read it, but it hit way different when you see Spike Lee out here doing a whole production, you know what I mean, and the rappers are doing songs to the soundtrack and everybody walking around with the X hat. So I think for me, hip hop has always been that. Hip hop has always been
about spirituality. Hip hop has always been about you know, politics, Like there's never been a time in my career in radio in twenty five years where I have it mixed to two like always I would. I got in trouble in Columbia, South Carolina for putting minutes of the Fray Hunt on the radio when he was it was the tenth anniversary of the Millionaire March.
I didn't know that you did that.
Wow.
And he was down there doing a press conference for a Million More movement, and I got a chance to sit down and have a conversation with him because I was doing youth ministry at Muhammed mass Number thirty eight in Colombia at the time, and I remember them not being happy that was on the radio in South Carolina. So it's just like even when you look at the
trajectory of the breakfast club, this isn't new. Like the first political interview he did was my man Bakari Sellers when he was running for lieutenant governor in South Carolina.
But we've always blended too.
When I was doing radio in Philadelphia, I would have the mayor Mayor Nutter, he was the mayor at the time in Philly, Like I would always do that.
But is there a goal with like I guess if you look at the paradigms, one goal is to be a morning show host and succeeding the biggest market. You've done that, You've been a champion in that space.
It seems like now like late night show hosts right late night.
Talk show hosts, it still seems like it's a big goal. We kind of haven't had, I know, one of your idols, our Senior Hall. We kind of haven't had nobody since our Senior that's really captured the culture.
That is that like a goal in your mind?
Is it a goal?
It's something I wanted to do.
I don't know if it's necessarily a goal, but you know, I think that seeds get planted in your head for a reason, and if something keeps calling you back to something, then that must be what you're supposed to be doing. Like you know, I've had Charlamagne and Friends on MTV two. That was back in twenty thirteen. That evolved in the uncommon sense. You know, we did like three seasons of that, you know, and then MTV two stopped doing original program and then that then I started doing you know, uh,
God's on This Truth a couple of years ago. Then we changed the name the Hell of a Week. You know, that got canceled. But then now I'm doing a week of the Daily Show. So you know, I keep saying, you know, I think whatever you have like quote unquote setbacks and things don't work the way you want to, you start wondering, oh am I supposed to be doing this, but for some reason, I.
Keep getting hold back to do it right.
And then when I look at like what I did with the Daily Show last week, It's like, Oh, all this experience I've gotten doing these TV shows over the years enabled me to be plugged right into a system like this, and it just it made sense, you know, it was it was it was kind of that fit list for me to do. You know.
So maybe that's a component because a lot of times you've had to build your own systems right. You put on a lot of talent. How strong Woul Charlamagne be put in the right system?
Absolutely?
Yo, that's a hundred percent right. And that's how I felt last week. I felt like very empowered in a real way. Like it's a difference when you come into a production room and you're like, Hey, I want to talk about X, Y and Z and this room of writers you know, who have a lot of experience because they've been doing it for so long, they know exactly what it is I'm saying and even what I'm trying to say. So now we got a whole different conversation going on. So it just felt it felt good to
be seen in that way. And I think you know, the only thing I would say is, like with the TV shows I've done before, what I also learned from Daily Show. I think one of the mistakes that we might have made is that to your point, Elliott, you know, you want to give new people an opportunity to do things, but nothing beats experience, you know what I mean. So it doesn't matter how talented a person is as a writer, you know what I mean, because that writer's room is very,
very important. It doesn't matter how talented a person is as a writer if they don't have that experience, if they don't have those chops, if they haven't been in those rooms, you know, doing it before, you're probably not gonna get the best results.
Why was Hell of a Week canceled?
I think it was a number of things. I think it was the strike.
The strike happened, and then you know, Trevor left Comedy Central because you know, we used to come on once a week, so the Daily Show was our leading So you know, once Trevor left, I think that they just, you know that that network in particular, wanted to just focus all their energy on the Daily Show. And it made sense, you know, because we were supposed to come
back for another season. But you know, once those unforeseen things happened, like Treble because they didn't know Trouble leaving, so, you know, Trevor announced he's leaving, and then, like I said, the strike happened, and it's like, yeah, we're a new show trying to trying to get our footing. We're still
trying to, you know, get off the ground. And the second season was definitely you know, we definitely made a lot of strides in the second season because we got nominated for the w w GA Award for Best Writing for a Late Night Series, which was big, you know. So I just think it was just unforeseen circumstances, those two in particular, like Trevor and the strike happening.
Had you foreseen that that was happening. It was that surprise you went Trevor.
Oh no, I didn't see that coming at all, you know what I mean, Like who did Like I mean, like, you can't do something forever. But he'd been doing it for eight years, and I guess we were spoiled by John Stewart. John had been there for what seemed like forever. You know, it seems like sometimes when you get put in those positions, you think that's something you just ride out and do forever long you want to. But Trevor
did it for however long he wanted to. His his length pause was just eight years, you know what I mean, which is a lifetime. There's a lifetime on shows like that.
You know, you've been doing this Breakfast Club thing for a lifetime thirteen years. So what's it like in this transition Angeline leaving? Like the big transition there? Like, how's that been for the show?
I think it's been great, you know, I think it's been great for all parties involved, because you know, when you look at what Angelie is doing, like, you know, you get your if you get the opportunity to host your own nationally syndicated show, why wouldn't you? And I think, you know, people don't realize what Angelie. Angelie hasn't been doing radio as long as me in NBAF, I've been doing terrestrial radio for twenty five years. Angelie started at
serious satellite radio, you know what I mean. So Breakfast Club was her first terrestrial radio gig. And you know, Angelie's a blessed person, Likeel's one of those people like you know, she steps up to the plate nine times out of ten, she gonna hit a home run. Because you tell me who in their first terrestrial radio opportunity ends up on a nationally syndicated a show that becomes nationally syndicated in one hundred market.
Let's sirre it though, Let's flot that regime the greatest greatest morning show of all time hip hop. You say so, no, I mean, let's I mean, I know you get humbled with stuff like that, and you get mad when I say I'm the goat, But I'm saying, like, listen, I don't think you.
Say things like that. If you if you say it's the main guy.
DJ have Angela Yee Breakfast Club is the greatest hip hopera, your show of all time.
I can see why you say that.
I can see why you say that is reasons right that number one, the longevity I mean.
Is that rapp right. I was there, We were there, see absolutely.
And the way you guys share content the whole we talk about the video content capturing social media, those tappen. I mean, I respect the Star run and everybody's runs. It happened, but you got to call it what it is. Especially now there's some finality in terms of that era being over. Absolutely that he's going and you it's already Hall of fame.
Literally in the radio Hall of Fame.
Yeah, but it's been a year since she's left, almost a year, And like, why haven't you guys found a permanent replacement yet?
Because I don't think further of all, I think you can replace it Angeley, that's number one, you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't I think she's irreplaceable, But I think that whoever comes in to be in that position, I don't think that's something that you rush to do because you gotta think it's like a marriage, right, Like how long you and Elieve been doing raparate all podcasts?
Know what I'm saying, Like.
Y'all website two thousand and that's what I'm saying, Like, y'all.
Are a unit, like you know, like you can't just bring somebody in here to do this, you know, so it takes time, It takes finding that person who got the right synergy. Morning radio is a whole different beast that people may think that they are built to do.
But when you got to wake up.
Four o'clock every morning and beyond by six, and you know, literally care about what people got going on in their live to talk about. That's a whole different ball game. So you got to find that that right, right person.
So that never gets easier.
There's still the grind of the feeling of getting up so early, being on on points so early in the morning, have an energy one hundred.
Like, I think it gets harder.
I think it gets harder, especially when you've had success, you know what I mean, Because it's like, like especially think about it. Thirteen years ago, it was just us, you know, and in the blogs. But now you have all of these different platforms that have popped up. You know, podcasting has taken off, the YouTube shows is taken off, so it's like so much different.
You know, anyone can make content.
Anybody can make content. So you know, to still be in this position, like to still be ranked number one at certain points and it's still you know, people still care about us and have us in the conversation. That's all you can really hope for in this era, you know.
That's it.
Like I don't feel like I don't feel like there's any one entity that will ever lead again. I don't think anyone entity, anyone show. I don't think any one platform will ever lead again. Like you know how there was a time where it was the TV era, it was the radio era. You know, now it's the podcast. I don't think there's one entity that's going to ever lead again. I think all of us are just going to be coexisting in this in this space together.
How much longer do you still want to do it? I do got a number. I got a number.
Are we getting close to that number?
A number of years?
You're saying, I got a number of years? Yeah, yeah, I got a number of years.
I got a number.
Is that reflective of a current contract or it's.
Just for me. It's about like I just feel like, you know, as a talent.
You know, I don't know how much longer I want to be on the talent side. I really do like playing the executive role. Like you know, I got, I got, I got all of this work up here right now. None of this is me? Like this is this is a book called Invisible Generals that's coming out.
You know, we're taping this on the money, but actually comes out tomorrow by my.
Man Doug Melville. This is the third book that I'm putting out on my book I print. You know, the other two Tamika Mallory, State of Emergency, How to Win in the Country. We built just came out a couple of years ago in a fictional book by Anita Kopax called Shallow Waters, you know. And then I got some stuff from my company with audible that me and Kevin Hart got SBAH Productions. This is out right now unleased for love, starting My Homegirl a Lisha Renee and Summer of eighty five.
This is narrated by Kevin. You know.
That tells the story of the move bombing in Philadelphia in the summer eighty five and finding Tamika. You know, that tells the story of Tamika Houston, a young lady who went missing and.
Spartanburg, South Carolina in the early two thousands.
So for me, I like doing this, like I I like putting people in positions to win, you know. So it's just like when you talk about my idols, like ar Senior Hall, right, that's one of my idols in this entertainment business. P D.
Green, you know another one.
He's a radio personality from DC passed away a long time ago, Jay Z, Sean Carter and Clarence Avon, you know, and all of those people were of service. All of those people were helped to throw a lot of assists and put people in positions that they weren't necessarily in, you know, before they were associated with them. So that's that's what I like doing. That's what I like doing now. So yes, I do have a number on how much long I want to be a talent.
And obviously you guys have battled controversy through the years, envies and controversy.
Now how does that affect you?
And if it came down to it, if he was no longer there, you would you feel responsibility to carry forth with the show?
Yeah? I think you kind of have to write you know what I mean, because I think the Breakfast Club is bigger than any of us as individuals. I've always felt like that in my mind, what I've always wanted for the Breakfast Club was new talent constantly comes in and as a part of this is under this umbrella of the club. So whether Angelaiue is there or Armor there, our envys there, the platform can still continue. Like I've always I've never felt like the Breakfast Club was just
a show about three individuals. That's always where my mind was, because you kind of see that, right, Like, if you if you plan to have the longevity you hope to have, eventually things got to change. And I think the reason people look at what Breakfast Club is going through right now and they're like, oh man, it's because they've never seen it before, because you've never had anything in hip hop and morning radio. Last this long, Tom Joyner went through the same kind of changes Elvis Duran on Z
one hundred. You know, he's been through the same kind of change, you know, mean times Elvis has had a new cast members, you know what I mean. So it happens if you if you're around all enough for it to happen, you know. So I kind of I kind of always foresaw that that type of stuff happening, you know, And I always knew It's not like we all were going to leave at one time, you know.
So I feel like, regardless of what envy situation is.
I felt like, you know, I always always felt like that was the plan, that should be the plan.
You know.
The Breakfast Club is the banner. The Breakfast Club is the umbrella. It's the vehicle, and you always get different passengers in the view.
There was plans with doing a documentary right yeah, that still happens.
Now, we got more to add to it.
What I keep saying, I'm like, yo, we got more to add to it now. And to me, it's just like, oh, now I see why that didn't come out when it was supposed to come out. I felt like Elliott just said, I'm like, Okay, now it was the perfect time because we had some finality to it with ye situation. You know, it's more to it, you know, So because you gotta address all that.
How in general, how do you think, because you guys have dealt with those controversies throughout the whole tenure, Like, how have you managed that from your personal point of view? Why do you think was the key for you guys to always kind of go through that adversity?
But the show still remains strong.
Put your head down to do the work, life, go on life, man. You know, things gonna happen, especially in this era when you got people shooting at you from all different angles. You know what I mean. They always talk about, you know, oh, your success is going to take a shot at you. Yeah, that's true, but also people who envy that success are gonna take.
A lot of shots at you. So they gonna always.
You know, if they see if whoever's against you, whenever they see some something or somebody going against you, they're gonna side with that thing, you know what I mean.
It happens everything, But with us, it's like what he's talking about, your criticized.
He's talking about other Cristians, people that want to be rappers, that want to be in this position.
A lot of that hate comes from that's right.
So it's like, yo, what what are we going through that nobody else is hasn't gone through.
It doesn't matter what position you're in, no matter if.
You're a rapper, a politician, you know, the CEO of a company, it doesn't matter. Like those that type of adversity is gonna happen, you know, so you just got you deal with it. You put your head down and you do the work. That's always tell folks, put your hea down, to do the work, you know, how to tell you. They be sending me stuff in the chat all the time, and I'll be like, I.
Ain't even hear it. I'll be like, oh damn, this happened is just all noise.
You know what I thought about too?
I mean, people dising now because it's not cool anymore on Twitter. It's called ax whatever it's called. But I miss on Twitter.
You gave Twitter up, fell, I stopped twittering like seventeen.
I know you was, but you was amazing.
You got you got your job through Twitter, right much right, A lot of ways.
The kind I mean the internet period. I just think it was just it's just too much noise over there. And what I started to realize is I started to see people and it's worse now.
I started to see people.
Waking up and they didn't even know what to think until they got on social media to see what everybody else was saying about something. And I don't ever want that, you know what I mean? I want to wake up, see your topic and have my own perspective on it. I think now, man, everybody's just engaging in group think, like literally.
Like everybody they're joining the first thing.
I don't even think. I don't even think that they even be reading half of these stories.
I don't even think they even They'll see the headline, see what everybody else is saying about said headline.
And then they just pile on.
And I just I just I realized early on, like man, Twitter is not good for my mental health and no way, shape or form. And it's just not good for me as a creative because literally it's just groupthink. Like whether you realize you're being influenced by what people are saying on social media or not, you are.
I did that.
I literally did that last week talking about something. I was in the room and I said, Yo, did y'all see x Y and Z? What happened to X Y and Z? And it was like it was just Hilarius and her friend. She was like, that ain't even what happened. And I go, well, I ain't even read the story. I just saw, but that's the truth. So think about how much that happens ninety five percent of the time. And I'm in media, I'm supposed to read the story.
I didn't even read the story, but I just blurted it out to the room like it was a fact. So it's just like, nah, I got off there years ago. I'm only on Instagram.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't do it. I'm only on Instagram.
How do you decide who comes on the breakfast club? Do you now that there's two of y'all? Do you and every decide?
It's always been me and be an Angel.
Okay, that's always two to one or has it been?
Nah?
I mean it's like because we all got different interests, you know, so if you thought somebody was interested, and we thought somebody was interested, or I thought somebody was interesting, it wasn't a fight about it, you know, because that would be whack. Like you know, how many people probably wouldn't be on the Breakfast Club if they were voted.
You know, we had a vote, right, So it was just like, oh, okay, if you think this person's interesting, sure, you know.
I just want to like, who's he been your favorite guest so far?
Man?
That's I have no idea. Man, you know how many people we've interviewed a lot? Yeah, and then you look back.
On a thirteen year career, there's interviews that I forgot that I see people will repost constantly.
You know.
The thing whenever people ask me that question, the first thing that comes to mind is everybody who's no longer here, Because when you've been around long enough, sadly, you see people go. So whether it's the mac Miller's, the Dick Gregory's, the Combat Jacks, the Prodigies, the Nipsey Hustles, the Charlie Murphy's.
You know, like, I'm sure between our Nipsey Hustle conversation and y'all Nipsey Hustle conversation, that's probably two of the biggest Nipsey conversations that people constantly go back to because of the length of them, right, you know what I mean?
Ours was an hour, y'alls was an hour plus. So it's just like when you really want to go, you know, sit back and see who a person was, you probably go reference those interviews because especially somebody like nip Nipple was a person who you know, when he passed away, he wasn't the beloved huge figure he was to the masses you know that he is now, you know what I mean, Like, I'm sure there were people who was
like the Staples Center. They have this man's funeral in the Staple Center, So I'm sure there was a bunch of people.
Who had to go look to see who Nipsey was.
And I bet you y'all saw y'all interviews shoot up in numbers, because we definitely saw ours shoot up in numbers.
This's over like twelve million views.
Now, it wasn't that when he was here, you know, So it's always those interviews with people who are no longer here.
That to me hit hit way different.
When do you think it first hit?
Though?
Like with Rapper, you people expect a good interview. With the Breakfast Club, it became a thing about these interviews are going to be provocative, They're going to be quality, Like I know, the ray J moment was kind of the first break through moment for you guys. What do you think was started getting the footing with the interviews being a staple.
I think it was always like that, I really do and ray J.
Everybody always references the ray J phone call with fabulous, But ray J was our first conversation period, Like the first person who ever came in the old Breakfast Club studios and sat down and did a conversation with us was ray J. And I think people gravitated towards our conversations from the beginning because one thing that we all sat down and agreed upon was we're not going to try to do interviews during the show because if you do interviews during the show, they only going to be
like five minutes, you know, six minutes.
So we said we're going.
To text afterwards wow, and then break it up and then break it down.
And so we did that.
We taped afterwards, and you know, the conversations were like, okay, twenty minutes, thirty minutes, and sometimes you find us in there for an hour. But we were just putting it all online, so you would get the radio version, which was a couple of breaks on air, but then you could go back and watch the rest of it.
On power one on five to one dot COM's page.
So I think, you know, from the beginning, people were realizing, like, oh, I can go to them and you know, watch long form interviews.
Way before there was like podcasts.
Doing that on the regular or even radio shows doing that on the regular, Like we were the first, and so I think from day one people knew.
Breakfast club conversations were different.
I feel that way anyway.
Or as a radio personality, you've been critical of the same platform that you work on, Like why is that?
Why not?
Like that's like saying, you know, why are we critical of America because we live here because things ain't always right?
Well, what's the issue you feel like with terrestrial radio?
I don't think there's an issue per se.
I just think that, you know, I know that radio won't necessarily lead in anything ever again, because you know, when it comes to personalities, most personalities around podcasts, you know. And then just to back up a little bit, you know the PPM meters, you know, the PPM meters when they came out fifteen sixty years ago, whatever they were, they were a flawed system at the time, you know, and I think that they had all the radio stations making moves that hurt radio in the long term, meaning
they started removing a bunch of the personality. So it was just all about music, right, and so there was real music driven and it had really short talk breaks. When you remove personality from radio, that allowed the podcast to rise because now people can go to these podcasts and hear actual personalities, you know, people with real opinions and people actually you know, expressing themselves that got taken away from radio and it was just announcing. So I
feel like podcasts will lead in personality. And now you know, like the YouTube platforms and everything that'll lead in personality. When it comes to music, nobody saw the rise of music streaming services either over the last fifteen years. Nobody saw the apples and the titles and the Spotify's and everybody coming. So now I got music on demand in my pocket. I got to wait around the radio to play this new hot shit, you know what I mean. And then when it comes to news, it's the Internet.
So I'm not It's not like back in the day when damn I heard pop died. Let me turn on Angie Martinez, I turn on Big Boy and you know, turn on Sway and see if this is this is true.
Now you got social media.
Social media, you know, leads when it comes to the news, and when it comes to the live events, it's the festivals, you know what I mean. So it's like, I don't think radio can ever lead in anything again. But what radio can be is the greatest amplifier, because that's what
radio really is, the greatest amplifier. So those podcasts and those you know, music streaming platforms, whatever they are, whatever that song is that came out online and everybody's you know, gravitating towards radio, is what can take that song, amplify it and keep it going, keep the life span past the week, or keep the lifespan past the day of its release.
So that's that's my own that's really that's literally my only.
Critiqular radio, like you know, like we're we're not going to ever leading anything ever again, but we could continue to be like the greatest amplifier.
What's your critique of yourself as a radio personality, Like you said, all this experience, you've had a lot'spit made Like in the beginning of Breakfast Club, you know, Young Charlamagne's going for the throat every time with the guests, and you know nothing's off bounds.
It felt like right and then obviously you want you some changes.
And kind of I won't say mature per se, but like, can you speak to your development on the show and how you feel like how you've approached things that has changed through the years.
That's exactly what it is. You said it, Young Charlamagne. Everybody keeps saying, y'all want you to go back to that, go back to that. I couldn't go back to that if I tried. Like life changes you like, I didn't have four daughters back then, I wasn't married back then, I wasn't.
In survival mode. I was in survival mode.
When I first started Breakfast Club. I had just gotten fired for the fourth time from radio. I was back home living with my mom in Monks Corner, South Carolina at thirty one, thirty two years old with a two year old daughter. Like, when I got back to Breakfast Club, I was in survival mode and I was how about this?
I was angry.
I'm like, shit, you know what I mean, y'all, motherfucker don't got me fired? You know what I mean? In my mind that was my mind state. My mind state was fuck all you industry motherfuckers. You know, y'all don't like me anyway. So not only am I not going back home in the Monst corner of South Carolina, I'm about.
To give y'all holy hell, you know.
So it's like, yeah, you grow, you mature, and you realize, like, man, let me go fix my shit. So I don't be in here projecting all that hurt and that pain onto everybody else, because that's all I see now, all this noise that I'm seeing people make, I can look at people and tell that motherfucker's hurting, that motherfucker is in pain, that motherfucker got some trauma that they ain't dealt with,
that they projecting onto everybody else. Because man, if you wake up every day and you don't got nothing good to say about nobody ever, Like cause it's difertween critique and just straight hate and noise. It's like, yo, every day we wake up, man, all we see is such and such going back and forth, such as such. It's always conflict, and it's like, when did that become a part of the culture. When did this great conflict become a part of the culture where it's just like all we're.
Reporting on is who's beefing with who?
And it ain't even no real fighting going on. It ain't even no real no shooting, understand, is everybody yelling at each other through the phone like that shit whacked me? And you know, it's like, Yo, been there, done that, you know, if that's what I looked like, Hey man, I'm glad.
I'm glad I grew in the ball.
When you were back home with your mom at thirty two, Like, did you think that it was gonna happen for you?
No, I had already made up my mind that, you know, Okay, I'm gonna be home in Monk's Corner. I'm gonna I'm gonna get a job here at the local radio station if they'll have me. Mind you, I done got fired from two of those stations. So it's like, you know what I mean, but salute my man Michael T. Rest in peace. Michael T hadnt launched. They launched the station in Charleston called The Box, and I helped with to launch.
At that station.
Like I literally was down there with Michael T putting together promos. I actually did the promo for them, you know what I mean when they when they launched. So I helped to launch that station and I was on there for a little while. But Michael T was like, yeah, bro, you he said. It was really it was like yo, you you you you were you were a little bit too big for for for local radio, you know what
I mean. I don't think it's not what I think you should touch your your sights on because I'm just I'm just that type person, Like I'm the type person like I'm gonna deal with whatever comes my way. So if that's the hand that God dealt me in that moment, I'm gonna figure it out. But you know, that wasn't the plan God had for me, clearly, because you know, my next gig after that was was the breakfast Club.
So how did it align with the angry part of being their breakfast club into those beginnings how did that also reflect, you know, getting you've been public about, you know, strengthening your marriage, going to therapy, Like, how did that all that all line at the same did they align at the same time?
It was all the same thing, because you know, when you start to have more success than you've ever had in your life, more money than you had in your life, more access than you you've ever had in your life, you know, and you know, now women you used to look at in King magazine, you know you dealing with like you know, you'll lose yourself. You know, your ego
will take control very very very very very fast. And you know, like I saw myself becoming a version of a person that I love but also hated, which is my father. So when I saw my father, when I saw how his marriage to my mom ended because of his infidelity, I saw myself like going down that same path.
And that was like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and so it's just like that's when I started making conscious decisions in my life to be like, yo, I'm not about to lose my family the way that you know, I saw my father lose his family. And also just observing, right, there's nobody that you've watched, you know, continues down the path that I was on.
Who's plane landed with the wheels out?
You know what I mean? Like, eventually you're gonna catch up to you. Eventually, you know you're gonna start feeling like nobody can tell you anything. Like my biggest strength and weakness has always been self awareness, because I'm very self aware of when I'm not moving away I said, I should be moving, But then I can also be too self aware, and that's where the anxiety can kick in because I'm in my head a little bit too much,
you know. So for me, it's like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, when I saw myself going down that path and I saw like the hurt I was causing my household. Please, it's an easy call for me, Like, you know, I gotta figure this out. I gotta start going doing the work on myself. And then on top of that, I'm still dealing with anxiety and depression that I've been dealing with my whole life that I never ever, ever, ever
ever dealt with. And man, if you think anxiety, you know bothers you when you are are living the right way, imagine how it bothers you when you living the wrong way, you know, awa, just think about all of the things that you know, all the things I know I'm doing, and I don't have no bit is doing, you know what I mean?
So you always constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know, like, oh, man, when is it?
You know, when is when is this person gonna call my wife and tell my wife we've been creeping around whatever.
It's just like, yo, who got time for that?
You know what I mean.
So it's just like for me, it was an easy, easy call.
And how did therapy help?
And it seems and you've developed the point that now you are such a champion for mental health.
Therapy helped me, man, just because like it helped me to get a handle on my anxiety number one, and it helped me to get a handle on my I'm about to depression, you know, number two. And then you know, when you start going to therapy, you go for a certain thing, but then you start peeling back layers, right and you start realizing like, oh, shoot, it ain't just anxiety and you know depression.
I got daddy issues, you know what I mean.
And I started to realize a lot of the animosity I had towards my father wasn't even just because of how he had treated my mother. It was because of how he used to discipline me for things he never taught me, you know what I mean. So, like like an example I always uses, I was following him one time, I just got my license and I'm following him. I'm driving behind him, and he he told me do everything I do. I just got my license. So he runs
the stop sign. He's coming off one. We're coming off this place called Gillyard Road in Monk's Corner and going on the Highway fifty two, so it's a highway. So he runs the stop sign on the highway. So I following him. I run the stop sign too. So he pulls over. I pull over, gets out the car, He walks over to the car. He slaps the shit out me, bow tells me wake up, like you ain't see that stop sign, and my mind, you ain't gon talk about it, like, look at you see the stop sign.
You know what I'm saying.
So it's just like that's the type of discipline I used to get. It was it was out of a place of love, dough because I also realized, like he was he was raising me out of fear, you know what I mean, and not necessarily love. And I think that's another thing that I realized when I started talking about my issues that I was dealing with as far
as my mental health. He came clean to me into twenty eighteen and told me that he was going to therapy two and three times a week, and that he was on ten to twelve different medications, and he tried to kill himself, you know, years ago. And I remember going to my mom and asking her, like, YO, did you know Pops was going through all this?
And she said, I thought he was playing crazy to get a check.
So just think about that, right, If he would have been honest with me and had those conversations with me, I would have known what I was going through, because you know, the mental health is just as genetics is physical health, So I would have known what I was
going through back then. So, man, the therapy changed my It opened up a whole new world for me just about how I not just view myself, but it helped me to forgive my Pops because I realized he's just a human who was dealing with his own issues and he had a life way before he was my pops. And I think that's something that you know, all of our kids may not necessarily know about us, Like we had a whole life before you came here. I'm not just dad, like I'm Lenard, you know what I mean.
Like you know what I'm saying.
That's not just your mom, Like she got a whole life too, And I think that sometimes, you know, your kids don't see you like that. So therapy changed my whole perspective on so many different things.
Man, you're almost like the new member of the Wu Tang too, because you and Ray Kwan got into business.
Man Ray hit me up like like four or five years ago and we went to dinner and he was telling me about his business partners, Jed Canty and my man Josh, and they got a company called Hashtoria.
You know, they're real deep into the cannabis business.
Like they have some dispensaries out in Oregon, and he was actually came to me about a project they were doing called Citizens Grown, and basically Citizens Grown was gonna be like these little dispensaries that people could have in their houses are their apartments, and they could grow their own cannabis and then you know, the cannabis would be collected and they would get like two thousand dollars a month or three thousand dollars a month.
I forgot what the number was. But that was supposed to be like.
Not the answer to the War on drugs, but for all of those people who were victims of the War on drugs, Like that was gonna be something that was gonna be in these communities, you know, specifically. And I was like, yo, I love that idea. So that's how me and you know, Ray even got connected on that. But then what was so funny. I produced executive produced Bacari Seller's documentary while I breathe, I hope we want a Southeast Emmy for that, and Jed was also one of the executive producers on it.
I didn't even know that.
I just happened to be at the film festival, the Montclair Film Festival. Jed comes up to me and he was like, yeah, you know, Ray was telling me about you, and I'm like, oh, So then we was at Corbez's house that later on that night and we were just vibing and then like so we just got locked in and it's like, you know, it's a couple of businesses that we got. We got the Serial Killers, which is
like a ice cream shop out in Vegas. And then you know, now we got Hashtoria in Newark, which is going to be a dispensary consumption lounge in Newark, New Jersey that opens up first quarter twenty twenty four.
Congratulations.
Yep. So it's me and ray Kuon Bakari, Jed and Josh like were the owners of a story of Newark.
Right.
How is it like maintaining relationships with some of your favorite artists.
It's always surreal, man, I never get used to that. That's like, it's surreal, like, you know, because these are superheroes to us, man like ray Kwon, ghost Face, those are superheroes. You know, jay Z is a superhero. Like still you know people like, nah, these are superheroes. Like we grew up. You know, these guys were providing a soundtrack to our lives. Like you know, so it's never like I don't ever, I don't never get used to that.
Like like sometimes you be in conversation or you know, you get a text message or you being spaces and you like, it's gotta tell folks sometimes you know you you you know you this ain't normal for me, right, like you know what I mean, Like I don't ever get like I'm never used to it ever, Like I remember being I don't even want to say what I was that, but I just I'll say I remember being somewhere with I remember Andre three thousand was on my left and ce Lo was on my right, and it
was like real regular shit going on, like a like a fish fry like Andred just fish frying fish. And I'm like, why am I like why whoa? Like you know what I mean, It's mind blowing, Like yo, I'm just how many times we rolled around listening to the Goodie Mob Soul, you know how we felt about.
Stuven playlistic cadillacty like this is.
And I told him that, like I'm not the type of person that like back like I'm too cool for I told him that in that moment, like I'm not about to sit here and act like this is normal, like I'm meanting fried fish with and three thousand and sea long we just kicking and having a conversation like that's that's that's I never get.
Used to that, man, But you continue to alienate yourself with the biggest start of the generation, this gy Drake Man.
And you can't talk about alienating yourself.
Drake. You could have had this conversation.
You could have had this conversation with me a year ago, not right now, you because you are true alienation.
I didn't have a.
Relationship apologize, Arla Man. You teach me about it. So I'm working that out behind the scenes, back in a better place. But yeah, but you did say, I mean, I hope so, I mean, we'll see how things go. But you did say it kind of equated to skip ballist to his lebron Yeah, what was that always the intent? Because it seemed like that was from the very beginning you were critical of him. How much of that was like your real critical opinion, how much it was entertainment?
Well, everything I said about the music early on was true. I always felt like that about the music. I'm like, yo, why why try to be the next you know, Chris Brown and Miguel when you could be the next jay Z? Like I always felt like he was that good of
a rapper, you know what I mean. So I used to always critique the singing, and then, you know, like anything else, you know, you start making jokes and you see that it's working, like you know, y'all, like when I go on Black TV and say this all y'all, like when I go on Breakfast Club and say this, you know what I mean. So a lot of that just became like he just became the butter, the butt of the joke. But I never I never hated him. I never hate I don't know him to hate him, Like,
how could I know somebody? How could I hate somebody that I don't even truly know, you know. So a lot of it was it was tongue in cheek. I mean, he didn't find it funny. There's plenty of times, you know, people come back and be like, yeah, Drake and his his team was just here looking for you.
You know.
I remember when Angel and uh Ivy was in Houston one time and I didn't come, you know what I mean, but him and him and his guys, damn show was like where the third Musketeer?
At that was? That was actually what he's said, from what I was told, where's.
The third Where's the third Musketeer?
You know?
So that actually happened.
So and then I remember I met these uh security guards one time. Man, this is funny. It was at our Heart Music festival in Vegas, and these motherfuckers looked like killers, like they were like big, like super goon and they were with Gez at the time, and they was like, yo, man, man, you know how many times we was just told if we see you on site, don't even ask no questions, just handle it.
And I'm like.
Really, and they was like, yeah, you know, he's just security for Drake whatever, whatever.
And I was like, shit, but I can't. Can I be mad at him for feeling the way he.
Felt out But when he did the whole send bottles of charlamagne all that, you know, like, why didn't you use that as sort of a bridge to maybe resolve things and kind of getting a better space.
I think we did. I think we did, you know what I mean.
But that don't mean I'm still not That don't mean I'm not gonna have be critical of your music. I'm still gonna have my critique. And then also too, I think that, you know, I just grew. I grew to the point where I was like, why am I knocking Drake for being everything we say we want artists to be? And what I mean by that is music driven, right, not all the mean, even though we latch onto his personal life with him, it's just really all about music.
He you know, even though he executive reduces the top boys and the euphorias, you know, he's got other businesses. It's still heavy heavy stone music years. Yeah, and he's not thugging now if you realize you go back and you remember some of the early critique I was on him about was like, why you want him thug? Now? Remember he was in the Headlines video with the Black Hoodies on and they he had that crew with him that looked like a flash mob that was about to
run up in a store and take everything. Even though you know, now in hindsight you look at some of those faces, you're like, oh, he has some goons with him, you know what I mean, there's some goons in there too. But my point is I didn't when he was talking about singing about catching bodies and all that, I'm like, Yo, that ain't you?
You know?
So I can almost guarantee that probably was like an interesting time for him as well, because he's like, Okay, you critique me for singing, now I'm rapping, and you're critiquing me about the content of my music. So he probably just was on some He probably didn't necessarily know how to how to take that that that kind of critique, you know what I mean. But for me, it's just
like he's literally everything you want. Like this whole generation for the most part, to him, the Coles, the Kendricks, the Shawn's, de Walets, they ain't on no goons shit, they ain't on no thug shit. They ain't talking about killing people. They ain't celebrating the drug culture crazy. So why give him flag for that?
Were you surprised when he tapped you this ship on?
I g No, Like that's a that that still happens behind the scene, you know, Like it's not like we don't send messages to each other. If you don't like something that was said, he got no, no, no problem, you know, speaking about it.
But even with the bottles, it's.
Like I don't hate him. Like the reason that even came about is because I had got some reference tracks of Drake music, you know what I mean. I don't remember what songs it was now, I think it one of us the Meek mill Rico record. I think one might have been know Ourself. I don't remember what they were, but it was like these reference tracks, right, and this is when the whole Drake doesn't write his music, you know.
Situation was happening, and I remember hitting up our good friend rest in Peace, Jazz Fly, because Jazz was just somebody who I always would just go to about things, you know what I mean, because jazz was just so common sense with it, and she was such a great strategist. So I remember just hitting her and like, yo, man, I ain't talking about something.
She's like, what's up?
I said, you know, I just got all these Drake reference tracks and you know I know this. Whoever, the person who sent them to me, thinks I'm going to go in on Drake on the radio tomorrow. But I'm like, I don't want to do that, Like I don't. I don't feel good about that. And that was like coming off.
I think like maybe the year before, maybe the year before that, I had played the audio Floyd Mayweather reading you know what I mean, Because we had we had the audio of Floyd Mayweather reading iHeart drops, and this is when fifty and all of them were.
Clown to him about not being able to read.
So I played that audio on air and immediately regretted it. Not because nobody pressed me, not because I got in any trouble or anything like that, just because I'm like that was whack, Like why I didn't even have no reason to do that. Even when you go back and listen to the audio, now you hear me saying, fuck that, we got to get these ratings. I'm just trying to sell I'm saying this on air, like we got to get these ratings. I'm just trying to sell a fight.
He knows how to sell a fight. We selling a fight, and that was whacking.
Floyd. I've been to Breakfast Club quite a few times.
He did me a NV's MTV shows, Just like why, what was the reason to do that? You know the Floyd. So I was telling Jazz like I didn't want to feel like that again, you know, by you know, putting this Drake audio out, and she was.
Like, and that's the thing about Jazz, she never told you what to do.
You tell her how you feeling, and she'll be like, I understand why you feel like that, and you're probably absolutely right because you know how you're gonna feel about it. So now you feel like, Okay, I'm making my own choice. I'm making my own decision. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna just send these to J Prince. That was That's what I said. I'm talking because J Prince my guy, So I'm just gonna send me to J Prince. And that's what I did. And then, you know,
I didn't know Jazz and Drake were cool. I didn't know Drazz and Drake were actually homies. So she ends up calling Drake telling Drake what's going on, and Drake is like, well, who told you that? I need to know who told you that? So I can't even know if it's real. And she was like, Charlamagne told me that. And Drake was like, Charlamagne, that motherfucker hates me. Why would he Why would he come to you and tell you that? And she was like, I've been trying to
tell you he does not hate you. So I've never hated him in any way, shape or form. So when he sent the card Let's be Friends, Yeah, that opened up the line of communication cause I never spoken to the guy ever. He never even threatened me personally before.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
So it's just like now, like we do, we have a lot of communication. I don't think I have no problem with Drake. I respect what Drake has built, and when I went to his show, I forgot what yeah that was, But it was the show with Future, and you realize, like, who the he ain't even making singing songs for motherfuckers like me.
He's making singing songs for this big ass diverse audience that's here right now.
It was probably the most diverse crowd I've ever seen in a rap show in my life. So when you see that, you realize why he makes the kind of music he does, and he's not wrong for it. This ship has got him in the conversation of being one of the best ever. So who gives a fuck what we think?
Do you still like rap?
I love rap?
I love hip hop.
I love rap music because I know we've talked about it.
He talked about like how afrobeats is going to take over and that sound is going to dominate. I don't know if you're still if you've become to chance it with the current sound.
I love hip hop, but I just think everything runs its course, Like there's not a genre of music that you know at some point was the number one genre that you know is no longer the number one genre, like it just happens, like hip hop is just having a very long run, and hip hop is going to
always have a place. But I mean when you look at like black music on a on a global level, I just think, you know, afrobeats has a lot of things going forward to where I can see it being the dominant Black genre of music at some point.
I would love to see somebody really add bars to that, Like if there's a way to incorporate lyricism to that, son I think.
I think I think somebody I've seen I've heard bass try to do that a little bit, you know, Ruby and Vincent recently on the on the on the project that Emery dropped, you know, just even some of Ruben Song's period, Like you know, I've seen him tap into that lane a little bit, you.
Know what I mean.
I just I think it's a matter of time before before it comes. But especially when you start going to the continent, when you start visiting Ghana and you know, Johannesburg and like these different places on the continent, Man, you really start to see what afrobeats can be. And like, you know, the artists that they're already collaborating with, like burna boyd as sharing already got songs and stuff together.
And when you talk to people like Ed, they tell you the same thing, like, I just feel like your afrobeats is going to be the biggest global music out soon, you know. And if it feels like we're it feels like we're going that way right now.
But how much do you think Hip I was going over because we saw that. To me, haven't really replaced.
We call the Big three, like the Drake Kendrick Cole was like the leaders in the space of the new generation. Little Baby kind of had a moment where he was almost senting to it and then he kind of fell short.
Like do you think that plays a factor in it?
I think that's because the industry has changed, meaning that we don't consume music the way that we used to. So there was a time where you could really change the temperature. It was called programming for a reason, right, So you had radio programming and you had television programming. So like when fifty get Rich of died trying when just fifty cent g unit was bubbling, everybody knew they was bubbling because you could see the tide changing on radio. Like let's just say it was jay Z. You know
before fifty. You know, when you started to see fifty coming, you just knew it. Because the industry has changed, the radio changed, and what television was talking about changed. I think, you know, since Drake and Cole and Kendrick have come along, I don't think that these traditional platforms have caught up to what the Internet is necessarily doing. And being that the Internet moves on so fast from things, I don't think you could ever have that type of momentum from
an artist ever. Again, I don't think we'll ever see Drake momentum, Kendrick momentum, Cole momentum. Think back in the day, GZ momentum, fifty cent momentum, what I'm talking about right now, US three we know exactly that feeling.
I would say fifty was the biggest mainstream is still the biggest underground at the same time.
That's what's crazy about it.
This generation don't even know what that feeling is, Like, who is that person that's generating that kind of momentum for this generation? Like oh man, you see that coming, you see that coming, you know what I mean? And then when it comes pasted like boom is here, I don't know who's been the last person at that that just done that.
I really don't know.
It's been a while, it's been a long long time. It felt like that was Kardi for a second though. Yeah, and I don't but Cardi wasn't a movement, you know what I'm saying. She was.
She was an individual like the people that.
Might be the last one.
She might be the last one, right because I mean, if you think of how big that record was, the album and two Diamond singles off that album, Like, I can't really deny.
The people I'm talking about usher than new movements. Yeah, fifty usher in a new movement, Snoop Dogg in the movement.
I can DMX.
I remember when I remember where I was when It Dark and Hell Is Hot came out, Like it just don't feel like there's but it don't feel like there's any events anymore, Like when when Jay sold five million records. We all we all remember where we were when Jay Z ascended to be the jay Z we know now as an artist, Like I don't, I don't know if that exists anymore.
Man, things come and go so fucking fast.
You shared a funny meme recently. You said, I stopped trying to wrap. We need electricians.
Yeah.
Do you think we have too many rappers?
Yes? No, I just can't.
You know. We just just just now in Nashville, we do this thing. It's called the Thriller Possibility Summit. It's our second annual Thriller Possibility Summit. You know my podcast network, The Black Effect. iHeart Nissan. We put it together every year. We bring fifty HBCU scholars. We fly him in, set them up in hotels, and they're all in STEAM, which is science, Technology, engineering, Arts, and mathematics. Right, And like, I'm talking to one of the young ladies. She's majoring
in mechanical engineering. She told me she wanted to start a podcast, and I'm like, she was like she I think her words like I want to switch gears to start a podcast, And I must have took it wrong because I was like, hell no, Like, well, we need more engineers, we don't need another personality trying to do a podcast.
I said, if anything, I'm like, what year are you in? She was like, I'm a junior. I'm like, Yo, document your senior year.
Do a podcast about that.
That's what I said, Document your senior year via podcast document being this. You know, young black woman who's major mechanical engineering. Tell that story because that's something that's unique to you, and you know, treat it like a diary, right if you.
If you must do your podcast.
No, I don't care about what you got to say about Dwight Howard A saucy and act.
I don't care about none of that, like for real, like I don't care about that. Like so, so, yeah, we need.
More electricians, we need engineers, we need more lawyers, we need more architects. I think that, Like I didn't go to college, you know what I'm saying.
So for me, when I was young, the people.
Who I saw that were successful usually were in sports or entertainment. So that's why I gravitated towards entertainment. I wanted to rap at first. Luckily I had a mentor, doctor Robert Evans, who told me, I seffed that rapping, you know what I mean. But I had just started on radio and he was from Rochdale, Queens in New York. He said to me, he goes, yo, radio ain't your thing, But I mean rap ain't your thing, but that radio, he said, if you focus on that, you could be
one of the best that ever do it. And he started talking to me about mister Magic, Frankie Krapin and all. It grew up on it like I'm telling you you could be one of them.
And so what do you think you had that early?
What was it?
I really don't know.
I well, I don't know, but I will say that what I did benefit from is not having any formal training.
I never did college radio. I didn't know how to do radio.
I was just a kid who was lucky enough to get an intern ship and was being that. That was the most productive thing I was doing in my life at the time, hanging out at the radio station all the time, you know, and like my man is doing that. Willie Will he was a radio personality. He would bring me on his show at night. We were on the same age and he would bring me on the show
at night. We would just talk and like my man Ron White, who was the music director of the time, he was just like yo, I like when you being there with Willie Will He said, you ever thought about doing radio?
And I was like, nah, but I'm down to try it. And that's literally how my radio career started. He started.
He had me voice track, which is recording eleven am to three pm on Sundays, and I was scaring all the church folks, so they moved me to Saturday nights in Charleston, South Carolina, and that's how I got into the radio gain Dope.
But we back to the music, though, you did say that four four four is like the most important I don't want to misquote you.
Yeah, I think.
I think in the future, we're going to look at jay Z four four four and Kendrick Lamar Mister Morale and the Big Steppers and say, these are the two most important hip hop albums of all time. And it's because of the content, it's because of the subject matter. It's because these two brothers. And it's great to even watched him, right, because you got jay Z, who at the time was late forties, Kendrick mid thirties, and they're both talking about.
The same things.
I would almost venture to say four four four probably gave Kendrick the courage to make a Mister Morale and the Big Step, you know, because Jay was on there talking about therapy, and he was talking about therapy in his interviews with The New York Times, and he was talking about, you know, trying to get things right with his wife, and you know his infidelity at all.
Like I remember, I remember turning thirty nine. That album came out June thirtieth.
I forgot what year it was, twenty twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen, I turned thirty nine, and I remember leaving a party, this a little get together we had on the roof. I remember leaving that, getting in the car, putting on Jay Z and saying to myself, this, man, is this is the down.
Track to my life right now.
Everything that's going on in my life, building these black businesses, doing right about my wife, going to therapy, trying to be a better father, be a better husband. This is my life right now, you know. And I feel like Hendrick came along last year and took it a whole step farther, like like you know what I mean. And I think that we're not going to realize the importance of those two albums until much much later in life, because you know, everybody ain't dead yet, that's the reality situation.
Everybody ain't on their healing journey, you know what I mean. Some people are just getting started on their healing journey. Some people have tried it didn't work for them, you know what I mean. Some people don't want to hear that. You know how back of the day, we like, I don't hear that god body shit, remember that, Remember that, remember the black girl long back in Africa. Shit, Hey, I don't hit that back to Africa shit. That's how people talk about it. Now.
I don't hear that mental health shit. I don't hear that therapy ship. I don't hear about that dealing with trauma shit, that healing shit like we ain't dead right now.
People are full of shit. They say that they want that stuff. When people like Kendrick Lamar delivers it to them, they give you mixed reviews.
Look what they did Drake this year.
All of a sudden, they want Drake to grow up. You know what I'm saying.
Moments, if you listen to the music, he has moments of maturity quote unquote.
Absolutely you know.
But but Kendrick gave you a whole mature project project, and it's.
Like it kind of came and went to me, you know, think so. I mean, he went on the road and tore it, of course, but it felt like.
He got critical acclaim but it didn't.
It was polarizing to people, and people didn't really give it its fullness.
In terms of like the internet crowd.
But I think maybe because Kendrick didn't do press around it, he didn't speak on, you know, contextualize the art.
So I feel like maybe some people just kind of removed himself from it.
That's the point. You gotta have that, But that goes back to something else. That's why these conversations are important, you know what I mean, Like your artists got to sit down.
I was gonna say, what's your take on that? Where artists feel like they don't have to it's a big deal. Now artists feel like they don't have to do the interviews anymore.
They don't have to sit down.
I don't feel like they have to. But I think that they have to know how it benefits them, you know. And I do like the artists the artist interviews, like I like what I like to see what Yachti's doing. But I think that it's still a different conversation to be had with somebody who's not an artist, you know what I mean. It's a different conversation to be had with it, be that in the elliot it's a different conversation to be had with a Angie Martinez.
It's a different conversation to be.
Had, you know, with a sway you know, our breakfast club whoever it is like, it's a different conversation to be had, you know. But I don't think they have to do it, but I think they have to understand
how it it does benefit them, you know. But I mean, if you want to do what you wanted to be focused on music, you know, for the most part, Like, I don't have no problem talking about somebody's personal if the personal is in the music, I think that's the best way to get into it, because yeah, the artist is like, okay, so not only did this person listen, you know, now they're quoting my lyrics, Now I get
to expound on the art. The art reflects your life anyway, so you're going to get that same personal and so you know about the person's personal life if you.
You know, do it through the art.
But that reminds me though you've stepped out of the breakfast club for Matt and you like when Travis Scott first spoke about the tragedy, he sat with you, Like, what's your mindset going to those interviews?
That's what they wanted you know, Travis hit Me was like, y'all want to sit with Charlamagne one on one?
You know? Actually it was Kim hit Me.
Actually it was Kim hit Me, but yeah, they was like, you know, yeah, they wanted to sit with me one on one, and that's how most of them go.
I don't even I honestly don't even know how that started.
I don't know how.
It wasn't a thing like I was like, you know what, I'm gonna start doing one on one conversations. That was never a thing.
It literally was like the artist.
It might have been Kanye. Kanye might have been the one who started that. Kanye might have been like, Yo, I want to I want to talk to you. I want you to fly out to LA and this is what I want to do. I think it was Kanye one. I had to be Kanye, but dad Kanye started that. So it was just like once Kanye did it, then a lot of other people wanted to do it, you know, and Sharon hit Me he wanted to do it, and you know, push your tea later on Rhapsody, like you know,
and it's it's I don't mind doing that. I like having the one on one, you know, conversations like my favorite one happened earlier this year. That's with Judy Bloom, you know and author because I grew up reading Julie Bloom. I love Judy Bloom as the storyteller just as much as I love Ghost Face as a story straight up, you know what I mean? I was. I was running through Judy Blooming Beverly Clearly books, you know, as a kid. So that was a dream for me able to be
able to sit down and sit with Judie Bloom. And that's the ones you you know, your mom is like, Wow, that's the ones your mom's impressed by. My mom's an English teacher in South Carolina, so it's like her thing is like that was one that impressed her, you know.
So was that your made it moment? Have you had that yet?
I made it?
Nah?
I haven't had it.
I made it moment. You know why I haven't had it, not made it moment because my mom told me a long time ago. She just said, always be happy to be making a living. And that's just how I feel like they got it, thank God. Like literally, I'm just happy to be making a living. I'm like, I like, I'm just happy to be here. I'm happy to be
in this position. That's why I don't get caught up in none of the like so called competition I got, Like you know, you know why he likes to knock everything off the chess board.
You know what I mean.
I'm not. You know, I'm not. I'm not that person.
You know what I mean? Like I don't, I'm not.
I'm just happy to be here. I feel like all of us can coexist. I like seeing this person over there doing anything, that person over there doing any thing. So it's just like for me, it's just like I made it. I haven't had that because do you ever truly make it in this business? You know?
Like I don't know, I don't know if you ever truly make it.
I think you are happy with where you with what you have done, but I don't know if you ever truly made it, because I feel like there's always different levels and different steps, Like making.
It in my twenties isn't the same as making it in my thirties.
Like your your your your ideas change, you know, your aspiration has changed, your.
Goals change, Like when did I make it?
Did I make it? When we made the Radio Hall of Fame? Did I make it when we became nationally syndicated. These are all bols that I had in mind, and then when you accomplish them, you still don't feel like you necessarily made it.
So I don't know if I've had I made it moment or so.
If we're not doing competition with Signing Interval Presents, I see a Black Effect hat right there.
Yep, Yeah, what's the collaboration. What's going on with the state of the Black Effect Podcast Network?
Black Effect, Man, we got twenty eight podcasts on the network, close to a billion downloads, you know in three years. You know, we're doing great events like the Black Effect Podcast Festival, which you know happens every April and Atlanta.
We're doing it again next year in Atlanta.
We just had our Thriller Possibilities something, our second annual one. So it's just like for me, man, anything you build, if it only benefits you, it's not big enough. And I feel like that's what you see nowadays. You see everybody they have their individual platforms, and you know, their their their individual platforms benefit them, you know, but what kind of platform are you building that benefits of other people?
Like you know, we got a full staff at Black Effect a president, like you know, we got a board like John Hope, Brian is on our boards. You know, Dolly Bishop is our president. Like we have a full fledged company. And you know this is something that didn't exist three years ago. So you know, to be in
partnership with iHeart be fifty one percent majority owner. You can look it up like it's saying something I'm making up, just throwing numbers out, like I'm a fifty one percent majority owner of the Black Effect podcast network, like you
were a certified black owned company. You know, to be doing something like that and to have, you know, all of these different creators that we're partnering with from eighty five South Show to All the Smoke to Carefully Reckless with Jess Hilarious, like, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a great feeling, man.
It's great feeling having you here, Charlamagne.
Thank you, brothers.
Great on podcast.
Rap Radar is Interval presents original production from hyper House, produced by Laura wasser Holsts some producers Elliott Wilson and Brian b Don Miller. Her Minival presents executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg executive producer Paul Rosenberg. Editing is sound design by Dylan Alexander Freeman, recording engineer Mike Urban, visual director Josh Perez, Operations lead Sarah Yu, business development
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