Stephen Hill

R and B Money, Honey, we are than take vlotie.

We are the authority on all.

Things ladies and gentlemen.

Money is tank and this is the R and B Money podcast on.

The authority.

On all things R N B Ah.

There is a man I was curated the air waves.

And the TV waves and created a cultural movement that we have all prescribed to.

We'll all called this man many a time and said, please please.

Let me on your platform, please, because he was cracking.

That ship, popping know with real music, real artistry.

He knows what that real thing is and what it is supposed to be like as an icon in a building.

And he's gonna dance to it too. He's gonna He's gonna dance. He gonna dance. He's gonna enjoy.

Himself at the shelf we all have, I would rather enjoy himself.

Ladies and gentlemen, forgive me for taking so long on this interrupt This man's special.

To me since the beginning of my career.

He has been an absolute driving force and an inspiration, a battery, a man to tell you let you know you are on the right path. He is sitting two feet away from me, and his name is mister Stephen Hill yarn abound here.

Wow, I would I would like to bottle that and put it on us after shave.

Everything is this?

Is it Stephen Stephan? Like, okay, yeah, I'm sure.

Really, I'm sure, I'm sure about your name with Stephen for all my lifetime until Curry came along, it is Stephan.

Every uber driver in the world, it's Stephan.

It's the Beyonce thing. It's the Beyonce. Come on, man, I'll take it.

I'm going with it. Stephan.

Everybody in R and B know what it is. My mom in R and B.

No, brother, I remember like him yesterday. I remember there was a show called spring Blink.

Oh gosh, two words I'm not in my mouth in consecutive order for years.

Let me let me tell you. Let me tell you about it. And I call it to spring bling down.

In Daytona, in Daytona, and I got my guys with me, mowet and I'm and I'm looking around, and I'm like, this must be heaven. I don't know if they've imported all these young ladies, if they're just nestled here on the beach like this all the time from Daytona. But I am going to sing like my life depends on it. And I proceeds to sing my songs, my my one hit, maybe I Deserve and slowly is kind of percolating, you know.

Okay, I'm I'm and an ability. You know what I'm trying to do?

The ability? You know what I'm trying. And you don't got no up. I don't.

I gotta leave my strength.

The first episode of the work, I couldn't perform that on so I perform performed. We feel like it's a great performance, you know what I'm saying. We we finger tip and touching the ladies of the front, like all right, let's go back to our room, you know, rotating the the the holding areas, you know, lartist seeing artists out, that kind of thing. And we're walking on our way back to the room, and I just I hear running, I hear like.

I hear, and we're like, what the fuck is that it is? Stephen Hill?

Okay you.

Met Steve all right?

And I'm thinking to myself, Okay, I guess this guy's got somewhere to be he's gonna run past us and get to where he's going. He stops right in front of me. He says, I'm Stephen Hill. I'm you know, I run all this. You're incredible And we were saund like. I was like what he's like this, You're incredible. Wow, great job, amazing job. WHOA, We've got a lot of a lot of stuff for you. Good job. Shook my hand and walked off. And that's Stephen Hill for me.

Wow. Always been there since Dy Won.

So for me, like this guy is like, you know, extremely instrumental in and giving me that type of confidence like spring bling b et at that time, that was like you had to be there.

I'm just glad I was right. I was like that if you were flamed down, this.

Story was down at the bar right now, man was the next looster right now. Look look, I'm glad you right too, because that five years I had off, I was like no, no, no, no, I've all Look.

I have been a fan of true talent, true singing talent and performing talent because I believe people can have talents in other areas that just don't include the tones that come out of their mouths. Right, I really appreciate those who who take time with their craft and really learn it and hone it and improve and are just naturally.

Gifted so much so that I married one.

So anyhow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I did the same.

The same look at surprises, but I did when she say yes, I.

Did the same thing. Yeah, where does this start? Like your your love for for this? Because like, like like you you were you were the president, right, and so there's a there's a business, there's a politic, and all of that that goes along with what you do, which makes it very tough for you to lead with the thing that is most important, which is your heart and

How where does that start for you?

So, I mean, I'm going to address that because that's a great point. The business and politic. I always hated, I hated it hates a little too strong a word. But I really did that and tried to improve how I did that just so I could stay close to the music, just like I stayed close to the songs, like I guess I'm known for TV, but my love has always been music. It's not I didn't, you know

So do you have a backstory where you were like in a group or something like that when you were growing up?

So you just you saved the dance moves into the ward show.

I did stressed before each a ward show. What I did want to do is pull a muscle, and when I knew I was gonna do is dance.

So I so you were never nothing.

I have, no I have. I believe I have musical ability that I did not capitalize on us out the world I want, But you didn't explore it. I did not explore it or exploit or dedicate the time that I needed to when I was twelve years old, right, So I took piano lessons for maybe six or seven months, and it's funny, and then my mom and dead let me quit. They let me quit, and I took drums for like three months and let me quit. I'm gonna jump ahead fast forward. My son we made a deal

I'm good with that. Yeah, you made sure you Joe Jackson.

Play past seventeen.

He did.

He did for two years after seventeen, and then then he finally dropped out, but he still loves he still.

Play loves in jamming.

And and what what leads you into I guess as you say, right, yes, is it radio?

Right?

What leads you into that?

I was I was four years old.

My my, my babysitter, Sheila Pegeese, who I had a massive crush on, would bring over stack of forty five to the house whenever we we had good by forty five. Those are the things that vinyl spin, small vinyls boys and men when they had their own company, their their logo was the spindle that in the middle. And so the first song I remember hearing was the name game Banana.

And from there on, I just love music.

We'd listened to music when she when she'd come over, and then I got into James Brown and the Temptations, and uh, you know, the Jackson five is a whole that's a whole chapter of itself, but just the motown sound. And I know it's R and B is the R and B Podcast, But it's like, but, but soul is what our soul is what really brought me in.

But we consider R and B to B. Okay, it's just we don't do the sub genre thing. You sing it from your heart. It's got some rhythm and some blues in it. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. We're in the same club. We're in the same club. And so you know, it led me. I loved music all the way through.

I thought everybody was was as obsessed as I was. I thought everybody read every credit on every album like I did. I thought everybody listened to every groove. I thought every they slowed down the forty five to thirty three so they could understand the lyrics.

I thought everybody did all that stuff.

You was directed.

Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely. And so when I got to college, to Brown University, they had a radio station.

Oh Brown, Yeah, okay, yeah, Brown, so reflect everybody don't go to Brown. Most of you niggas don't you know Brown.

And it was a great place. I love I love, I love it.

But they had a radio station that wasn't a college radio station. It wasn't a bunch of kids just like throwing on what they want. The Brownie radio station was a commercial radio station.

Right.

There were only professionals in the sales department and as the general manager. Everything else, promotions, music director, programming director was run by kids, and we had to compete for the same advertising dollars as everybody else in the market. So it was a real quick It wasn't quick, it was a it was professional training, right, And so we bring professionals, other pds from other stations in to help teach us. We all, we all ran, and we all,

Of schedule, I was, I was. I was.

I spent more time there than I did in class. I can only say that because I know my mother won't be watching. Like literally, I spent more time at the radio.

Finish. Did I finish college? Ye?

Yes, I finished?

Yes, listen, you finished.

Guess what applied math economics degree? That's what I got. What applied math and economics?

Have you applied that to? I can.

I could not tell you which way a demand curve goes right now. But but that was my that was my that was my thing radio. I was. I wasn't a good applied math economics. I was a banker for a man, I'm not gonna lie I was a banker.

I was.

I was I was a commercial banker for a for a second before my big break came.

Oh big break, Yes, I got hired.

Was w I l D Boston still around when you when you came through or is it already been shuttered? It may have been shuttered in the late eighties there was an AM radio station.

Because I didn't come until two thousand and so, oh.

Yeah, it may have been showed. I was definitely gone from then. Gone by then. By about seven or eight years, it was an A and M radio station in Boston. If you know Boston, Boston is not the blackest city in the world, It's not. But Wild on AM was like the It was the magnet for all black entertainment, black attraction, black black folks. Like everybody was listening to Wild. And I got a break there to do a weekend show. All right, we got times on a dive into this.

Absolutely sorry.

So the story is I went to Brown University, did WBRU. I graduated. I tried to get a job in the industry. Couldn't find anything, couldn't I got. I still have my rejection letter from Solar Records somewhere right. I was really trying to get it radio. I just wanted to be in the business and couldn't do it. I ended up going back to my oldhigh school and teaching math. So I did apply the I used the math. I applied the applied math there.

And uh, and that was it.

I was like, Okay, I'm gonna teach. I gotta figure out what I'm what I'm gonna do. A year and a half later, Christmas, h Christmas, a year after I had graduated. I remember his name, Rob Hartley. Rob Harley, Uh got sick at wbr U. He was a he was a software when I was there. He was now now a senior. He got sick. It was Christmas time. They were understaffed. They were and somebody called me and said, hey,

I'm like, yeah, it'll be fun. I'll go on this first Sunday. I went out.

Sunday.

I go down to Providence, Rhode Island. You know, I do what I always did before show. I read every paper. I knew what where the charts were, so when I brought up the music it would be timely. Everything else I do more for my four hour show in December. I think nothing of it, go back to my life and teaching.

UH.

In April the following year, I get a call from that knew I do know, you'll know this name, el Roy Smith.

El Roy Smith, who was the program director.

Of Wild at the time before he went to Dallas and before in Chicago. He's a very very very big influential radio guy, but at was the start of his career as the program director there.

He said, Steven Stephen Hill.

I'm like, yeah, el Roy Smith.

What I didn't know is that when I was on the radio those four hours, that one Sunday, when I.

Hadn't been on for a year and a.

Half, el Roy Smith was driving through Providence, Rhode Island, a route I found out later he'd only taken twice in the last three years.

In the previous three years, he heard me on the radio.

He called back the next day, but since I had been gone, the people who were there didn't know. There's like Stephen Hill, like, we don't have Stephen Hill on Sundays. I don't know what you're talking about.

But he didn't give up.

He finally called somebody who called the station, and somebody who was a friend of mine happened to pick up the phone and he called me.

So my whole career revolves around one.

Sunday where if Robert Harley doesn't get sick, if I don't pick up the phone because there were no cell phones, then right if if if Elroy's not driving through at that point time, if I don't pick up the phone when Elroy calls me, I'm not sitting here with you too. It's like a Star Trek episode, like when something happened, one thing changes the future.

That is the one day that changed the future.

So I've always been so thankful to Elroy, and I've just I've called myself the luckiest guy in the world so many times.

And I still absolutely believe.

That Elroy calls you. Elro called me. I like, I like, I like what I heard.

I like, but I heard Stephen, And tell me more about yourself.

You know, how long and how long were you there at the station?

I was at w ild until for five years, eighty eight to ninety three.

Is that fly?

Yes, fie eighty eight to ninety three, And then I worked I'll talk about this much, but I worked as the first executive producer.

At the Tom Joyner Morning Show.

No, absolutely, absolutely, they started. They started in January of ninety four, and they needed someone who could be the liaison between Tom's wild self and all these very nervous program directors. They were twelve at first at the radio stations that were taking him syndicated.

Now those are Tom Joyner is a very famous.

You least callim fly jack fly jock because he usul to do a morning show in Dallas and then fly to Chicago to do the afternoon show in Chicago same.

Day, same day. You know, he was same day morning show in Dallas.

They I it was a police escort, but he'd get to the airport and then literally do the afternoon show in Chicago. Real popular, Like the only person who did an interview with Michael Jackson during the bad period. He's so and so he became a He's Howard Stern was syndicated and then Tom Joyner was the first African American syndicated radio person. And so I was the executive producer.

So we can satisfy el Roy.

El Roy's one was one of the pds in twelve cities Miami, I can't remember Miami, Chicago, but big cities, and of course it grew to be this b a myth, but I was the first first there.

How long did you work with Tom Joyner?

For a year? For a year and a half, and then I went to MTV. I moved to New York for MTV.

So at this point, you like, that's your that's that's your last dnning radio.

That was my That was my last stting radio until I had had a very lovely and very productive gig at Sirius XM about about.

Four years ago.

Oh yeah, I did it. Okay, you I did radio. I did.

I smile about that because it is through that show that my wife and I got reconnected. It was through the Serious XM Show. Tracy Jordan, thanks you very much. Booked her as a guest on the show. You were on the show, You were on my Serious XM show. You booked her as a guest. But I did not marry you and.

I I don't know, you didn't know. I just really.

Man, So how does MTV discover you?

MTV discovered me because at my time at w b r u UH Providence at Brown University. A good friend of mine who I actually did the morning show with, was then one of the program directors at MTV, And so there had always been There had been opportunities I didn't want, and then they wanted me for stuff I

The first time going to New York and actually walking around was I guess right around ninety nine, ninety.

Ninety seven.

Yeah, forgetting how much older than you I am.

This I gotta keep forgetting how much I think I see these two you know, I think, I'm like, I'm with the crew, right.

You're still with the gang, right, like forty second Street, yo, And I get these blank faces.

I'm like, oh.

Shoot, because really was between ninety five and ninety nine when Juliani was like, we're getting rid of all this and we're making people invest in forty second Street. So my point was New York was a much more dangerous place than ninety five, and so that's why I was like, ood, I really don't want to move there, but this opportunity

To the Doobie Brothers. Right.

So my musical intake.

Was always multi genre, multi genre, and so that served me great at MTV. It frustrated a few people because they thought I was going to be the black guy, and I was the guy who was like, no, no, no, there's these folks called the Blackstreet Boys. We really should take a look at them.

Imagine being his homie from Tom Joyner days, he's telling you about the back Boys. Yea too hot?

You're not happy with Steve Wow? And what was your position director? I was director.

I was a director of music programming, So I was on the team the selected the way we like to phrase it, the way America rock now. Back in MTV, this is back in MTV was actually playing music videos call it at least at least eight nine hours a day. Yeah, pure pure videos with with vj's in between, and so the music really mattered, Like you you played something, you moved the needle. Yeah, yeah, first song I remember being involved with, but I was like, no, no, this is

Was Skilo's I wish ski Loo, I wish.

I what?

So I was right, but without MTV would have been the same thing, right, It's it's really like we put on MTV and it started to blow up.

It just it just it.

Yeah, it was it was too smart old.

Yes, yeah, yes, I believe you'll be You're gonna be talking to uh Chante Moore in a couple in a few weeks or soon, right, Yeah, really you should ask her about her involvement with ski Lo's. I wish it's her story to tell. It's her story to tell. But she's on the song. She's on the song. We like that, okay, right? Uh sow first record you pised? The first record I remember. I remember I picked and I was like, oh that was that was gonna work and they were there were kid rock days.

Radiohead is still one of my favorite.

Uh.

It is my favorite rock group to this moment, because I remember when they came out. This was after Creep, when The Bends first came out, as when I started and and I was just blown away by their musicianship, there the risks they were willing to take, and Tom York's vocals or just he's He's one of my favorite soul singers. Yeah, so but it was great. Look, I talk about somebody who loves live shows, like being able

You were really locked in. And that is at once again sitting in a meeting and them talking about trying to get certain playlisters and different people in a room. Yes, you should not have to try to get music people in a music room. If you really love the music business, you should know what's coming, what's here, Well, you know what I mean. You should be involved more so on it's like, yeah, we think maybe such and such might come by this showcase. No, if you've signed up for

And I try not to make it a generational thing because so many people want to talk about to talk about that, but I just know there's a there was a passion and I will say an ability.

Right.

So live music has taken on the chin.

Technology has made live music take it on the chin a little bit or a lot of bit over I think in the last certainly in the last thirty years. So there's a whole generation who doesn't understand what it's like to go to a club and hear things out of tune.

Because it's live just for a moment.

It's not because you're bad, it's because it's real, live and the passion may have not the passion in the note might not have met in that moment, but it's still a live experience, right, And so I think there's an entire generation who who does not have that experience, of course, which makes me always glad that I grew up when I did, because I got to see Jackson five, Prince, James Brown all live. And there's very few people who do it like that now. And it's not their fault.

I also believe that that the requirement also, or the people requiring a certain thing kind of changed because we started gearing or moving away from music, people actually being in charge of music. Like the preparation of a Jackson five, you know what I mean, the preparation of a James Brown of a that's.

A costly preparation if you want to be that.

And when the business started overtaking the art, they the business found ways to cut those.

Corners debt service over dopeness, and debt service over dopeness.

And and in their mind yield the same or a better result on the books. Yes, but from a career standpoint and in the idea of creating icons, yeah.

It took a hit because they're just swapping people out. They're swapping people out. It's just like, Okay, who has a hot record right now that we can tag along to. We know what's in the pipeline. Oh, it's about one hundred and fifty thousands in there because they got, you know, some traction, and the analytics says that this record can go here if we just throw a little bit of money. But they're not saying, oh, let's also throw in some

To continue to us all very consistent on that with the bad note, right, But that is where it.

Where you need music people.

You need music, You need music people, You need music people.

Again, I'm gonna sound like the old guy.

But there was the there was the the mo Austin's back in the day, like you got three albums before you got dropped three albums to find yourself, right right, you got you got multiple opportunities before they were like, we've given it a shot. It's not going to work, good luck, and that timeline is just condensed if your second single doesn't work. And let's not let's not understate how much the disruptor from tech made all this happen.

It changed, It changed everything, and I.

Think it killed the movie, right, it killed It killed the story. Yes, like there's a there's a like there are albums where okay, maybe there's not a hit single, but the story from song one to thirteen is absolutely incredible.

The first so y'all have to know this. But Prince in nineteen eighty eight put out Love Sexy, and he refused to have any CDs printed that any tracks on it. You could only put it on and listen from start to finish. There was no track one track too, and so I remember there being a big, big fight about that. He's like, no, that's that's the way, that's how this is to be consumed.

I wonder, from a business standpoint, how is that.

Well time, because yeah, you can't get it off now unless you just have a long play of a song that just goes. But from a publishing and now you're selling a ten dollars song.

Well right with Prince publishing was all the same.

As you say, But.

The bottom is crazy, top to bottom is crazy. But it really is taken away. Look, there's some artists will still make the entire artistic statement.

Uh.

And I love I love when that happens.

I love.

There's nothing I love more than like sitting on a on a car ride and listen to an album front to back. And I there's few of them in the last twenty years that that make me want to do that.

I get for me.

Also, it's an age thing I always wanted. I always want to asterisk I'm I'm older. But I think it's also the way that the business has been set up. The business has been set up thanks to uh, Steve Jobs.

I still listen the same way though for me, from buy an album. If you put out an album, I'm going I'm not going to jump to the song that got a star on it on the playlist. I'm literally going to go from your intro to the end and then I'll decide what I liked from that standpoint, and maybe I'll go back and forth tongs that I like.

Yes, I'm I'm back back, front to back and back to front.

Yes, Like I'm literally like those out for me personally, those are, you know, albums that I can either take a ride to, I'm at the gym, whatever those things are. I'm not skipping one song and it's hard to do that. Jazmine Sullivan Hotels. Absolutely Yes, I'm sorry.

Yes to me, that's the last one that's.

Summer over it.

I to man like her every Victoria. I'm sorry Victoria Money, but I do I do that exactly what you said.

I'm and we don't have to anymore obviously, but I love that experience.

What's your favorite fund the back album of all time?

Take time out of it? Favorite fund the back? Off the Wall?

Yeah, I mean from the back.

That's not your own, that's not corn I'm sorry, suld I said that before.

Damn he stole my Off the Wall.

So if it's off the walls, off the agreeable one, something different, it would.

Have been thriller. But the Girl's Mine, I gotta do something.

You don't like the Girl's Mine.

I love the girls.

Yeah, people aren't. I'm gonna go.

I love it. I love what Paul Carty says.

I don't believe it. I don't believe it.

I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go, and a go on Impact. I'm gonna go too. I'm gonna go. Joe Toosy Diary for Man Band and Brandy's first album, Brandy, Oh, that's.

A good one.

Over forever, my lady. You're gonna go. You're gonna go, You're gonna go, dive you. Maybe I have to for you, Yeah.

Yeah, for me, not along with Off the Wall, but just like Jesus.

That's when I asked the question. I have no idea what my answer.

Is gonna be. Uh.

Well one, uh one is obviously it's the only It's the only album the Prince ever mentioned in the song where they where he mentioned the album and the singer is precious by Shante rocking on the rocking on the box. Uh so precious by Chante Moore. Seal second album, hm hmm, Seal second album. Uh And because I.

Was such a Jackson five fan, which we haven't talked about.

The the album ABC, their second album is just start to finish, Start to finish, my favorite album of theirs. And I promise you if you listen to a song called I Don't Know Why, I don't know Why I Love You, I don't know Why I Love You, which is the end of the first if you have their album, it's the last track on the first side, and it's Stevie Wonder wrote it. And people talk about how Michael

I want to ask you what's because we have this back and forth at times. Is Michael Jackson the greatest kid singer of all time? Think of the rush, the rush, the rush.

Okay, no, and don't give me okay, kid, give me what age?

Give me an age range?

Anything under eighteen.

No, it's not kid, it's a kid. It's got to be anything like under thirteen, anything under twelve, that's a kid.

So Frankie Lyman's in the conversation, Michael Jackson's in the conversation, Tevin Campbell in the conversation Wonder, there's Stevie Wonder.

I have to now, I have to say, but.

Yes, when he's singing that.

Yes, that's true. But okay, I'm glad you.

So listen to Stevie Wonder singing young, and then Michael Jackson singing Love Young.

I gotta go.

I gotta go with Mike at young when it comes. When it gets older, it gets closer.

But Mike changes his voice as he gets older, just so Steve. Yeah, I get it.

But as a kid, I got tomorrow, That's what That's what I'm saying, Tevin, Frankie, Michael, Who's it? Is there a young woman in that conversation.

The closest I would think would be Brandy.

She was sixteen, was fIF she was fifteen, fifteen.

She was saying, she says, she's sang them at fifteen, Yeah, fourteen fifteen?

Is there a young Jojoh was pretty crazy? Jojo was crazy. Jojo was a good one.

Jo was crazy. Uh.

I am taking Michael Jackson because no one, for forget technical ability.

But no one had the soul.

I'm telling you, listen to this one song and you will have to keep reminding yourself to the twelve year olds.

I like the way you articulated that because me, Me and Jay go back and forth with this a lot, and I think as you broke it down, I think technically Devin was the best. But when you add that soul element to it, I believed Michael. It's like when they say, oh, that kid has an old soul. Yes, Michael Jackson had an old soul. From the beginning.

It did not sound like a key No, he had a high voice, but it's like.

Yeah, that's like a little grown he had the fazing a little person.

Really, he's in a movie with mar Willians smoking.

Robinson said.

The coolest thing about I thought about Michael Jackson said he had never met anyone who was more grown up when he was a kid, and never met anybody who was more of a kid when.

He was growing grown up.

Wow, that was Michael Jackson.

Bar because that is that bounds it all us, it does.

All right, take me from MTV TV.

E no, before you go to BT, though, I have a question. Yeah, did you hire Tyres for MTV?

Hire him? No?

No, no, no no, no, I did not.

What did he do? I forget what he do? He was, That's why I asked.

That's no.

I think he may have gotten there after you lever I left. I feel like he was post ninety nine.

I left. I left the April ninety nine.

Uh okay, wait, yes, MTV is lovely and I won't go into it, but I think this think is funny. I can always uh and when I left MTV because it was the.

Uh week.

That uh the NAS hate Me Now video came out? Video I was at MTV. That's the story that doesn't get told right, The story that gets told is like, oh, somebody went to the Universal Building hit Steve's out on the head. There was another crew that came over to MTV to see you, to see all of us.

All of us, to see all of us because the video got played on MTV.

I won't I won't use any proper now that I don't know if it ever got explained.

So we have standards and.

Practices that has that that that you can't say these words in there, you can't serve this much in the video. So videos come in, videos coming to MTV, we'd say whether we will to play them or not, and then to go to the standards practices. Standards and practices would say, oh, you have to take this out. You have to take out you have to not say that word, you can't show that body part. It goes back to the label. Label makes those edits and it comes back to MTV.

Hate me.

Now. Video comes in, goes to standards and practices, they.

Make their edits. But an artist being on the cross was not a standards and practices edit.

It was not It was a required question.

Edit from the from one of the artists on that And so video artists didn't want they didn't want to be on the Cross. Did not want to be on the Cross. Video goes back to the label. Label makes the standards and practices edits doesn't make the artists requested. Edit gets back to MTV. Now candidly, it was MTV's job to make sure that that artist requested edit was out right, standard practices did their job, label did their job.

Everybody had their notes, everybody had their notes.

It came back, it got missed over, it when on the air, and all hell broke loose. It was, but it was, it was. It was a simple mistake. Nobody's I don't as I understand it. Nobody was trying to pull over anything there was. You know, yes, the label should have pulled it out because their artists requested it, but it was really on us before it got on the air to to make sure that got done.

So I've never told that story. I don't think. I don't think.

I think I've ever told that story.

But that was the week I left m TV. That's that's how we got to that.

People here, no, no, and security ain't good enough. No.

I will say this and.

Again, there was just feel like a black operation. How much we'll hang out with the black no.

No, no, to that point.

To that point, the person who was who was the head of Running Music at that time, uh was, uh was, Uh, there's a couple of white folks who I remember feeling like, Oh, I'm You're lucky I'm here this week, since I'm here to protect you and have a conversation and a language that you really can't have you won't be able to have next week. No, that's not because another my man was there, he would have had the conversation. But you

Five months after that. That was the you can't because they did. They came into the building.

They came in into the m TV building like a MTV building, like they came into the Universal building.

No passes, no passing landers.

The guy, the guy from the guy, the label executive came through with the four big dudes.

Said I needed them to facilitate my movement. That's what the four big dudes were doing.

That's what the four big dudes would do. The label executive literally said, I said what what I was like when I talked to them off was like, why'd you come through like this? It's not going to bode well for you, Like I'm leaving like you ain't got me to like I needed them to facilitate my movement. If you see this, you know who you are?

He did.

I like, first, I'm rolling with that.

Mh. So now you now, now it's a great way to go out in the door.

It was an interesting way to go out the door. It was an interesting Yes. So I went to b E. T Uh as a VP of music programming.

Again. That was time when when BT played U uh, everybody playing video.

Everybody's playing videos and so I came away. You just want to jump the tip thrill? Is that what you're doing? You can always So.

Here's the here's here's here's the thing to know.

Here's the thing to know about b Et Young cut and we'll jump around again the cut so again.

Because we appreciate artists and what they do and always want artists, whether it's no awards show, where it's in videos, want to have artists be able to present themselves the way they'd like to present themselves. We were conundrum because we couldn't do that during the day because the standards of the equivalent of standards and practices at BEET wouldn't allow it. And I understood it. You don't want to have champagne being poured on.

People, so do standards and practices go to sleep at a certain time.

So it's so the deal that we made was, look, we just want to we like to play videos more like the artists want them.

We understand it can happen during the day.

As a matter of fact, we can be more strict during the day if you allow that thing at night at two o'clock in the morning. And there was a boy, there were people, folks bought in. So that was But

And that's tip Drill is the.

Poster child for this.

Is that people started making videos for uncut, right, And so I'll take the blame for not seeing that coming.

We were really just going.

To have artists so like, oh, you gotta cut that out of my video. We gotta cut it out during the day, but you get this at night, right, So we didn't expect people to just like we ain't trying to get daytime play. We're just getting gun cut because we didn't realize how big uncut.

Uncut was a ratings.

You thought you were doing some type of damage control he's giving them. That's all that was in many answer.

Right, Okay, a common theme throughout things like wanting artists to present themselves the way they want to, the way they desired, all this stuff.

So so here's.

What I knew uncut was a problem. I knew uncut was a problem when Patti LaBelle comes on one oh six and Park because she had something else she started too or something. She comes on and and she was asked, so, what do you what are you watching now? Like what the things you watch on TV? Just ran in crush and she's like, I really like on BT on cut and we were like, and I forget the follow up. The follow was like just trying to check, like like sure she wasn't saying just to be funny.

He said, oh no, no.

Was that video? What the thing smelled like?

Commercial? Yeah?

Yeah, yes, yes, cooking.

Turn that out.

So it was great one of the two of the best things that happened, as bt cut happened and bet Uncut ended. It was because things were getting out of hand. People were protesting in front of my boss's house. Really oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yah, yeah, oh yeah it was. I mean just videos, videos overall were being blamed as being the scourge of America, right they were. The videos were the reason that America was going down the tubes. Yeah, uh it was you know, you see the Lords Tucker

Really help it.

So, uh there were church there were church groups that would protest outside my boss's house.

And so are you in DC at this time?

Were you know?

We started?

I started in DC in ninety nine and then I thought it would a few years to get the thing moved to uh New York. But thanks to uh Bob Johnson, Deverly, Curtis Gats and we got one of six and parks started on in in fall of two thousands, so it was only a year. Nice nice to my house in DC just stayed empty for I don't know, and it's that's another story. But yeah, so that was that was a real challenge for a problem challenge for a while was UH videos and their content and how we were

Doing your best to represent the artists and their freedoms and their artistic vision, like you were just trying your best to support.

That was that is indeed, that is indeed the case as BT did long before I got there, and it's done long since I left.

But it's like, also, you kind of gotta help us out when you're dating.

You can't deliver. You can't deliver. You can't you can't deliver.

I can't think of I don't want to call out any video, but you can't call out the villain.

You can't deliver the.

Video where they're they're pouring a honey on a selection of women and then smacking the ass and go like, y'all plan.

Right, yeah, yeah, Well if you if you go on YouTube, it's a free for all now now everything, but at no one's expense.

Right at your own expense at that point.

But and that's the thing I just wonder, also, are those same people picketing in front of the YouTube officers they.

Gave up the fight the fight?

Did they give up the fight or was it that they were holding BT to a different standard, because it was like, it's my cousin.

I think that's both.

We're all black, I can go and.

I'm always looking for the positive side of things. And so what that meant is that they were passionate about right, CBS doesn't have fans, right, ABC didn't have fans.

TBS doesn't have fans. BT had fans.

BT had folks who were always cheering for us and wanted to hold us accountable.

The wholding accountable didn't didn't really bother me.

It was the level to which they went and invaded people's private lives that was That was a real real challenge behind that. But I always always appreciated that folks

Let's talk one six and Park Man. Okay, let's let's talk to talk man. Let's what about it? I mean, what's so much? One O six and Park.

The landmark, Yes, where everybody wanted to land.

How how tricky.

Was was that for you to manage all of who gets who gets to sit? Or okay, who gets to just get their video played? Okay, you can perform? Maybe you like all of these things.

So I need to shout out a few people so I can get into the story and not worry about doing it now. Penny McDonald, who was simple leave my right hand for so many years and instrumental in so many of these things that you're going to ask about, was Penny McDonald, Rick Grimes, Lee Harris, Melanie Massey, uh and talent, Kelly g and music. And as I think of more people, I will, I will, I will somt

But it was just it was a it was just flavor of love.

The the so the one oh six in Park in a lot of ways was built around my first Jackson five concert July seventeenth.

Nineteen seventy one.

The Commodore's open, fine, Commodore Commodores are open. They have no single machine guns, not out yet. And while they're on the audience is screaming, we want the Jackson five, we want the Jackson five.

While they're performed.

So they don't know who the Commodore are. They don't realize a lot of or Richie's gonna go to be one of the greatest, Like they don't know what they're seeing in the moment.

Not that did I.

And they go off, they go off stage, and the lights come on, and the lights went down before the Jackson five came on, and there was a sound that when I talk about I can still hear in my ear. There was a scream, there was a whale, there was a there was an antisity, there was audio, uh audible anticipation of that thing that was coming up next.

And so.

One O six in Park I always wanted to get that sound, like that sound of teenagers, young black teenagers, losing their mind, like for that thing.

That's about to come out next.

Is what one O six in Park was built for and to do and we got we got and again lucky, lucky, lucky. It came along the same time that Bow Wow came out, right, and so.

From the beginning to the end, and so.

We had you know, there's a bunch of people who do we had on in great talent, but bow Wow was.

The first act that got that sound.

That sound, yeah, that sound that I that I'd heard twenty nine years before was was was had when bow Wow came out. And then B two K and then Chris Brown, then Trey Songs and the whole bunch of like I got to hear that sound.

Talk about genuine and the ambulance.

We ain't got to that point.

You got.

Genuine, genuinees wasn't anticipation.

Genuine wasn't like genuine, and then you spring it was it was like bow Wow and you know right right it was. B two K was so crazy. I know B two K was so crazy that we were trying not to let them know when we were We would actually trying to tape that show so it wasn't live, so people wouldn't come up because they were live. And once and it was the first she was there, they

Want to get in, we gotta get in, we gotta get in.

You're not getting in.

And I saw a fourteen year old girl get thrown into a back of the police cruiser. Now I know things have changed, but I like she deserved to be in the back of the police cruiser.

Like she deserved that.

She deserved, she earned it.

She earned the back of that cruise with her behavior.

Now we made sure that she got out, it was right, but I was like, we gotta give.

Her a minute put her in.

That That was the that was the activity, that was the energy there was around around Bet and it was it was just it's just the best thing. We talked about the business of political side of the business, which I don't want to spend that much time on tell you the shoes, but I will say days of bad meetings or board presentations or something I freaking loved at six o'clock.

I could go to the studio.

I could go to the studio and just make the connection, make the connection with the audience, like they were the livest audience there was. There was hardly ever like they really like. I didn't realize we were. I didn't realize the first that there was for that type of entertainment. I didn't really realize like t r O was their default because there was nothing else like One of Six and Park live. Like there was a lot of stuff. BT had great music shows before and video soul, but

Uh. It lasted fourteen years, fourteen.

Years, wow, fourteen.

I want to say, the part was great.

It was great, And nothing makes me happier than hearing people talk about how One of Six in Park was was an absolute part of their childhood, right, and it they feel about One of six Park like I do about Soul Train h m hmm.

Right, and to and to be.

Part of that, to be part of that absolute like that, to have entertained it's just it's it's it's it's the greatest thing in the world. I was on one of six and few times we were I wanted to me to tell it we were somewhere. We were somewhere, and they because my wife is fantastic. My wife is just the best at what she does and is amazing. And its crowds wherever she goes, and someone asks like like, like,

That was kind of part of one O six in Park.

So I'm good Bet Awards one of six in part like I'm like, I'm good.

Yeah.

Like my goal.

Literally I got to be around music and entertain people and make people smile, like that's the thing. And without any musical talent, like that's the thing. I just got to I got to be the art I got to be the art gallery. I got to be part of our gallery, a curator of our gallery. Like, oh, this is gonna be good with that. That's gonna work. There, that's gonna work. Oh, they got a genuine, genuine with the ambulance.

That's gonna be a lot of fun. That'll that'll work.

It is.

It is a great performance, genuine and genuine coming out of the stretch.

Is just that bad acting. They said, something happened to j.

He's not going to make it.

He's not going.

Yeah, yeah, great that you said though awards. Yes, sir, h yeah, there was another amazing thing. Yes, that you were a part of curating this.

I want to say this before you before you say what you're going to say. You know, I want to say this, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I don't want to do any feather Yeah, there ruffling. I just you know what, Let me frame it like this. Let me say like, by the.

Way, feathers, feathers in a cap when there's a cap means you did something really good. I learned that after the Kendrick Lamar uh destected Kendrick Lamar super feather his cap, so ruffling feathers is perfectly fine, right now, Okay, okay, okay, I just want to make that I'm gonna frame it this way.

Things changed after Stephen Hill. Things changed, they were different, and I remember the times of Stephen Hill, and those were some great fucking times.

That's all I'm gonna say. All right, that's a great statement. Glad there was no question to it. I will say this. I think it goes back to the thing that we talked about before in terms of artist preparation, artist development, and artist preparation. I think there is some the artists of now performed differently and need different things on stage than the artists earlier, right.

And so I think that may be some of the thing you're you're you're noticing.

It's it.

Uh yeah, yeah. I I've not missed a show. I still go and I still stand up, and I love every show.

I think that.

Actually, I think this past year was one of the best ones ever. And I and and what needs to be pointed out in I don't think it's gets enough notice is the BT Awards of twenty twenty COVID set the blueprint for how every Awards show did.

No one knew how.

To do award shows when COVID came around, No one like, what are we gonna do?

What are we gonna do?

And Connie Orlando and Jesse Collins and and Dion Dion Harmon. Uh I was supposed to say Dianicole Harmon because that's what it uh, Dion, It's it's it's like Chuck Berry playing the guitar like if you if you're now, and you're like, well, that's not really, that's really there's nothing special about that.

But it was pioneering. It was like no one had done that before.

And so the BT Awards twenty twenty if you look bad, I had at Lesha Keys out there and it was it was the George Floyd year as well. I mean a little baby laying down like and and was able to keep you captured with no audience, with no audience, and that's what happened for the next year. BT Awards twenty twenty one was the first one to give you the little cocktail setting, like the cock the look for the cocktail tables and now what did what did?

What did?

What did the Grammys have this year?

Will Grahams have this year?

Cocktail, the little cocktails tables around. So I always want to sell it because because I don't think i'd get enough credit for being kind of the Chuck Berry, uh, coming out of COVID when no one knew knew what to do.

I just I don't know if the I don't And speaking of just times changing and maybe the artists of people in terms of how they view things, it just feels like the reverence of a thing is just different now. Like I remember. I remember, like when the BET Awards was coming up, like it was a frenzy for all you know what I mean. There wasn't gonna be anybody missing at the BET Awards. It wasn't gonna be anybody

In my time, in my yes, also in your time. And I don't think it's uh uh, it's not a coincidence. It's not a not a coincidence. What I'm I forget what to say, but you'll understand.

What I'm saying.

BT was also involved daily in how much you got exposure, right right, those those those things are connected. I remember making can't I remember making some deals like we really would love to have you at the show, Okay, video play for this artist, because we're building this show.

These are the things we're gonna do.

And I think that's it's it, that's that's I'll use the word leverage.

There was leverage. There was there was a there was a negotiation.

It was a great given, there was a great given, there was a great give and take. And and I think it's still true that and they know we want you to look good, like they know everybody. We're we're into making this and and it's the thing, it's it's the thing that continues with the BET Awards.

You want to make things look as best as they possibly can.

I think the Hip Hop Awards gets overlooked is because the idea was make was to make hip hop shine, make something it's grimy shine as well and look looks spectacular.

Do you as you say that?

I love that you said that, because that makes a whole lot of sense.

Do you do you feel like as we have our.

YouTube and our Instagram and all these things that now fuel our content, do you feel like we are still missing that the one thing, that one show, that one that one O six in Park that you know, kind of that shaped the the childhoods, that shaped the careers and shaped and brought everybody together in this one place.

So I miss it. But again, once again I must remind you, I'm older. I respect that there's a generation whose discovery of music is very different than what I or we did, right. We enjoyed having curated music. We enjoyed listening to the radio and hearing what the new thing was. We enjoyed watching soul training and seeing with the new dances. We enjoyed watching one O six in Park and then going to school and sharing that thing. I think the DSPs, Spotify, Apple Music Title, all the

Do you like it too?

And then things got shared? Right.

I think the Internet and that approach is a way that this generation enjoys it. Where we enjoyed, We loved having that central core thing. We loved being able to talk about that performance. I think award ward shows still do that. I love the chatter that existed around the the super Bowl halftime show super Bowl Halftime show this year, I loved all of the conversation around it. I got a shout out once again produced by Jesse Andon.

Yes, because.

It I still like things that unite folks and the thing about that unites them and then people don't go and have their own opinions and everybody's got their own TikTok video. But in terms of discovery of music and new music, folks like it's it's hard written. Terrestial radio is still around, but it's but it's more it's more of a I want to discover it. I want to I'm gonna go through things myself.

But don't you think we deserve alternatives, right because we still have Jimmy Kimmel, Yes, we still have Foulon, but we have nothing for the black community or for urban music, and we you know, it's you got to roll the dice to see who's who's going to get on one of those shows, right, So, but before we've we've had so to you know, like, I completely understand and respect what you're saying. I just think that if those shows can still exist, why can't ours, Why can't I our

But if they're not music based, right, there's a music performance on it. I think that, And that's.

That's what I'm saying, Like I'm saying something that just like we don't have anything where in the space honestly that an urban artist, a new R and B artist, a.

New new actor act.

So I'm I'm going to I'm going to argue for Questlove because because that show has had a few artists that I was surprised, and I know he's kind of pushing buttons behind trying to trying to get that done.

I don't what is that?

Oh, I'm sorry, that's a that's a Fallon show, Jimmy Fallon tonight show the roots because.

The roots of the roots of the band.

No, no, no, I get it, but it's not our show. That's it's not his show, I think because I was about to say, what's you are you talking about? You said it was so and I realized that they're the band for it his show. That's the difference between having one O six in part are having our Senior Hall, you know what I mean.

I think as soon as someone finds that there's money to be made and having a new or Senio Hall, our Senior Hall will come back. I just don't think, and especially in this climate right now, I don't see someone turning a Tonight like show and let's it's really on the Tonight show in Saturday Live right those those feel like the only places. And if you ask record folks, SNL moves the needle every once in a while it's a great performance. One of those other shows will move

I have to continue to create platform where we can give exposure to our talent. Yes, because now you got to be the one percent of the one percent to get on any of their platforms. Absolutely, so we have to continue to create our own you know what I mean. And that's a big reason why we wanted you here too, just just for your knowledge of it, and you know, to give the insight to young creators that are out there and for us, for us to think of new

I think that's right and and and creators. It's it sounds corny, but like, be true to yourself. There's there's gonna be no better you than you. You may get influenced by someone else, but like just keep doing it. Look, there's no platform where you can curate like that, but my goodness, there I mean, there's so many artists who've made it big and never been on one of those platforms or never had a platform move for them and

I don't.

It's it's yeah, this is it's a it's a new thing that you know. It's like my grandmother trying to ruse the remote, right, It's it's a it's a different era. But I do love that people can use YouTube and like keep putting things on YouTube, keep putting things up on TikTok, keep trying to get it out there. I think the the turn is when one of these labels take interest in you and you start you start popping,

Development? Who can I like what.

And it's so hard when you when you're young and you have nothing, you put this thing out and people like.

It to look that far.

You've got to have great counsel for that.

And so.

Yeah, yeah, I to get frustrated. I see these these TikTok artists who come along and they may have something really catchy and then I'm like, Okay, well let me go watch them perform live, and I'm like, and they're not even working on it. They just realize they're just they're there. They realize that they walk back and forth and uh say the lyrics, they can get the check and go home, and they believe it can that's going to that's going to keep them going today.

Don't get booked anymore.

I mean and and live music is doing better than it ever has before.

Right, I think there's a there's a false sense of security and the longevity when you know TikTok rapper can go out and get there and uh and and get a checked for a while and and not look at the future. I said this once before. You do have the eye of the tiger or eye of the TikTok like you like, like, right, I have the tiger means you're gonna get ready for three years from now. You're preparing yourself, you're getting your crew together, you're getting your development.

Because I have TikTok is like.

I'm gonna ride this until my label drops.

Me, losing in mind when TikTok was down for every many hours, you.

Know, absolutely all right, test me out, test.

Me out your top five R and B singers.

M So, does everybody have a disclaimer before they do their top five or like everyone has a disclaimer like like, oh, it's.

Hard to get five, hard to get five.

These are five of my top and I'm gonna try to avoid some of the ones that you that you may always get. Uh, that's not true. That's not true, and it has to be five. I thought I was much more prepared for this than I was. I'm gonna I'm gonna start with I'm gonna start with the obvious. I sent out a tweet in the year twenty eleven and it was random. It wasn't connected to anything else that I had sent out, and I just said something like, my goodness, the most underrated singer in all of music

There's no one who makes me believe.

Everything she's singing like Shante does, like when she's feeling pain. I feel that when she's back in her earlier days when she was trying to be romantic with somebody else, like I like, I feel that, like I feel that in the way she can manipulate her voice. And then if you've ever seen her do it's all right live like just just just it. It's Google Soul Train Awards twenty twenty two. And what what she does with that?

We should strangers.

Yeah, we would spend some time in China. Another thing you should talk to my wife about when you have her on the show. And we now refer to it as the Dolphin tone. It's it's the dolphin tone. The dolphin tone. Yes, I didn't realize yeah, yeah, and so we call it whistle tone, but the people in China call it a dolphin tone. And so, but that her and her ability to really I believe the emotion. There's no one else that does it like her.

To me.

There's people can belt and and and technically and fine, but like it's it's she and Prince who I believe what they're singing. I believe when they want to get in bed with somebody. I believe when they're angry at somebody. I believe when they're pleading so Chancey Moore. And it's not just because she's my wife, it's because she's awesome that uh, I got uput prints in there because I think he's under He's so good at everything. He's underrated

Way to look at it, I feel like celebrated.

But but as a whole, not as individual.

Right, It's like we brought that up with production as far as like when they named the greatest producers, they never named Stevie wandar Prince. That's because they're so great at so many things. So I agree with that.

It's like the package of them is like it is just too much, too much.

Yes, Now, now I'm I think Chris Brown is unbelievable and so far ahead of everyone else of this generation.

Now it's tough because for him, it's.

It's vocals plus the package plus what he could do when he performs. So I take R and b artists that that's got to be part of it, like any anybody got to talk about has to be able to perform except maybe one uh that I mentioned, And so that's really a big part of it. Uh And I love that. I Yeah, So I think I put I put, I put Chris in there. Uh Uh. I'm just gonna say it and it's not and I'm gonna change it

Amazing.

He is an amazing singer. Now faith.

Is what it is. There's some great work he had on older where he's just his us technical singers would know much butter, but his pitch and his tone is flawless.

I base a lot of this on I was fortunate.

Enough to go to his MTV Unplugged in London in nineteen ninety seven. It was amazing. I'm gonna send you because they only use like five songs in the show, and he did like.

Fifteen or sixteen.

And his voice was pure the entire time. When it started to give out, literally two hours and fifteen minutes in, he called it. He said, my voice is about to give up out of I've got to go. But in terms of again a feel of of just singing vocal ability live George Michael.

He's not gonna be in my top five tomorrow.

I'm doing this mostly but I want to point him out as someone who probably doesn't get mentioned. And the other one is I'm gonna introduce this like this. This Scottie Pippen one of the fifty best basketball players of all time. Okay right, literally when they came up the top fifty basketball players of all time, Scottie Pippen.

Was on it.

He was on the Bulls. So he was on the Bulls with Michael Jordan. So Scottie Pippen being one of the top fifty. Of all, every other person in the top fifty was the alpha male on their time, everyone except Scottie Pippen. In every other group, Scottie Pippen would have been y'all for male r. But he was on a team and he was behind MJ. And this is how I'm introducing to you Jermaine Jackson. Mmm, Jermae, I'm introducing you to Jermaine Jackson. Castles of sand, My touch

Goes under noticed.

Going back to Indiana, find on YouTube or on record and listen to the Base playing on the first they have a live it's a stand feeling all right on one of the one of the first three cuts. Just listen to him take off on the base and realize he is a sixteen year old who has no studio trickery, who's making the base do that live and in person while singing singing nobody else in the We don't recounting Tito as a vocalist, right, we not? We just we were good. We love the Tito. We wouldn't have the

J got you. I like the way you frame that. I love it right there.

That was because I got a couple of guys like that. Yeah right, you got Jojo from jo Tosy. Yeah, he got from voice to man as yes you giving me a yes yes.

And I have to say I because I have to say out loud Luther Vanros uh uh r, Kelly, Earth Wind and Fire. Uh uh wait wait wait wait uh.

You can't with the top of the top Okay you yeah, talking.

About I want, I want, I want, say George Michael and because you want people to think about like voices that that don't usually get mentioned up there, and they may not be your top five, but like they they brought it in a way that yeah, that that that that I just want I want to shout out.

I want to shout out, want to.

S Stephen Hill your top five R and B songs.

Adore by Prince.

Why not just kick it off that song?

That song song turns uh what he what do you?

What? Do you?

What?

He six?

This year thirty six, thirty six. This year it turns thirty six this year.

I still hear new things in that song every time I listen what a song it's? It's to your point about as a producer, like there's there's things buried, and I swear like there's a way he produced it, Like Okay, it's time release. So you're not going to hear this in the year nineteen eighty seven. You're not going to

Seven, because you don't even know what it is until you've evolved enough to be able to hear.

I think that way we're putting it, it's a great way of putting it.

Like some of these guys, like you're talking about Prince, he was completely ahead of his time on everything. Everything He set standards, yes, yes, and then a lot of them can't be replicated.

That's true. That's true at all at all.

He couldn't even recommend it like replicated, but he tried to with the whole nineteen ninety nine thing. He tried to.

But for that time.

Yeah, and I had to limit myself to I made sure I limited myself to one Prince record or else.

Just ist.

Anytime, any place, m come on anytime any place is just it feels it just it you.

Start moving and not even know that.

Yeah, all the way through the sound the sounds.

Yes, we're still in Mina. That's what I said.

We still We're still in Minnesota.

Yeah, okay, so and I got it. I didn't realize had two jam and Lewis's until just now. On bended me, ah On, bended on, bended me. I'm a sucker for a modulation. We know this.

I'm a I'm a sucker for a modulation.

And I just think that that song is so it's just so well crafted. The little vamp at the end, the harmonies. Uh, I just love I just love love that.

It's it's verse B section hook. They're all separate parts. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

They're not the same. They're not the same. They are not the same. We talked about what we talked about one Late in my Life again as a as A as A as a Jackson fan, and for me, Jackson five were on the same leg is on the same level as Michael Jackson. I loved the Jackson five. But again, I think that was his last that was his last soul song. That was a last one. That's last one where you believed he wasn't in this. I mean he was crooning at the end, like, I just love the breakdown.

In my life.

Yeah, where did you were not alone? Is that not an R and B?

So, I mean, like I don't, I mean it doesn't.

In the end, like he really he getting to it at the end too.

I'm just asking he's getting.

It's not about it being Lady in my Life. I get that part. But I'm saying as far as the soul in that record for him.

Yeah, like my just crying out, He's crying out, He's crying out. The song structured the song with its imitation, doesn't It doesn't.

It's not the soul. That's what it is, delivery the soul.

And then I feel comfortable saying this because you've you've heard you've heard it.

Know what it is, the live version of Chantey Morris. It's all right.

I have heard it a hundred times.

Good about yourself.

Yeah, As a side note, and when we come up we are on the way, I was nervous and I tell my wife I was nervous, and her pep talk was to me. It was like, don't worry about it, just be comfortable. You're one of the corniest guys that we know. So that was that was That was the pep talk. That was.

The pep talk.

So because because I say that, because I did that so I could have time to get I've heard it a hundred times and every single time, and it's not just the dolphin tone at the end, it is it is what that's And another thing, it's it's what that song means and how it sounds different every time, and how she how it's just to feel it's not.

And I can find it. It is.

It's new.

It feels new every every time. And so uh, I like the recorded version, but it wouldn't make my top five. Live version makes my top five live version makes my top five.

I love that. Yeah, that was yeah, I felt that one's the Corneus guy. We know I love man.

You're all right, mister, yes, sir man many wonders. Let's make a vulturon. You're a super r and b artists. We want to know where you're going to get the vocal from the performance style, the styling of the artists.

Oh passion, they're different people.

They are all different people to make one great yeah. Yeah, So who you're going to get the vocal from? One vocal for your super r and b artists.

I am going back to my tweet of two Thy eleven.

I'm going with my wife, my wife, my wife. Yeah, Like, I'm so glad that's on record.

I'm so glad.

I showed that to her early relationship, so she did not think I was fronting.

I was.

I'm like, like, I'm going to her because I'm going to need emotion. I'm going to want a I think Freddie Mercury did a brilliant job on Bohemian Rhapsody of taking us up and down and all the way through so many I think, I think too many places. Absolutely in one song five minutes fifty five seconds. If I'm not mistaken, that's what that song was. I believe my wife could do the same thing if given the task.

Soote voice voice Johntey Moore performance style on stage.

That one's tough. That one's tough because I love energy and I'm taking I'm taking nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety prints, I'm taking new I'm taking Nude Tour prints, Nude Nude Tour. Prince was athletic, was he was? Yeah, nineteen ninety New Tour, the long the long hair, you had, the long hair. The tour never came to the States, but it was, I mean he was. You can look it up, you can say it online, you can sit it online. So that nineteen ninety Prince performance style. And it was hard.

It's hard.

It was hard not to take Michael Jackson Victory Tour.

It was hard.

It was hard not taking that one. But overall, I gotta take nineteen ninety.

Prints, okay, Chante Moore, Prince, the styling of the artists, the drip, the presentation, kink.

M h that one okay, because I am not a man of sartorial splendor. I don't dress that good, so I don't really it really? Is it a thing I gotta go with? In nineteen oh, I didn't pick I know cause I picked prin I don't feel bad nineteen seventy one. Jackson five, Easy good, I'm good nineteen seventy one, Jackson five, Yes, loved it, Love loved. They were the first group who understood they didn't have to have uniforms on to be dope. They were the first real singing

Jackson five were first. I don't know that. The history yeah yeah yeah, and the passion of the artists, the heart of the artists who who what you mean?

It mean it?

Okay? Okay?

So I since I mentioned my wife already and I mentioned that's exactly the thing that she does, and I mentioned that about Prince, I kind of want to I kind of want to go with someone else and challenge myself to go with someone else on that.

Bruno Mars, Bruno Mars.

I feel comfortable that, I feel good, Yeah, I feel good with that.

With that, I feel good with that. I feel I feel great about that. Actually, I'm extremely gonne.

My favorite, my favorite, my favorite former to come to prominence in the twenty first century is Bruno.

I liked him, I liked him on radio, and then you say I became a fan of him live.

That's it I mean when I say that, I mean love.

I mean love.

I'm always so. He delivers on record, for sure, no doubt about it.

You're supposed to love the artist more after you get to see him, yes.

Live, Yes, I said, Oh he's him.

Yeah, he's a guy.

He does that thing that I love when artists do. They put the bangers that will never be played on radio, but are so soulful as the very last song on the record. You can go back, you can check the very last song on the record. I Cat Gorilla, Uh, the one, the one he wrote with Babyface is on Uh is on the one, there's on twenty four Carrot and then blast off on on on Silk Sonic.

His last songs of every album are just.

What he chooses.

His last song is done on purpose.

You're like, I'm gonna be black at.

Show.

You are really show you what I really did? Well, You're you're an Almanack.

I love it.

I love this stuff. I love this stuff. I appreciate you. I appreciate I appreciate it. I just do appreciate it.

So we at the very very important part of the show, and what's that? Will you tell us the story funny or fucked up? Are funny and fucked up? The only route to this game is you can't say no name. I can't say any name. That's the name. You can't say no names.

I'm kind of looking for a nod baby, you're looking for Okay, no names. The thing is no names. So I was I'm not gonna say the name of the show. I feel better if I do.

Don't.

Okay, there was a show. There was a show that myself and and other people were working on. We were celebrating an accomplishment. I can't use any names. It's good. We celebrating an accomplishment of an artist. And they had a milestone number to their album. We wanted this artist for it, and we questioned it and we thought about it and we're like, let's go, and so to do this. I was not an MTV. I wasn't a bet at the time. So I was with a company, and we

Who were in the clouds, like the head of everything to.

Be work with.

So we go to two people we work with and go like, we would like to have this this uh, this person do this thing for this artist and they're like, uh, the person's a male. It would be awesome if we could find some female talent to also do this thing. But that made sense every with everything there was in the atmosphere, that made perfect sense. So we go to the artists and go like, can you find female talent?

We go back, You're in. It's going to be great.

This artist gets to work right away because this artist understands gets to work right away and is really ensconsin and really has every brings every for rehearsals and makes videos of the progress and sends them sends them to us,

What was going to go down.

And after lots of back and forth, as an aside, I admit I was used to bt I got to be the final word, like when it came to the orgin, I got to be the final word. So I'm I'm kind.

Of used to that, thinking it is about to go that way.

Right, especially since we got network sign off. So but one of the things I had the final word, enters into the next conversation cause I'm like, well, there's no way we just got to convince that's going to happen because we get to do this, and that's not the way it worked with the structure, And so we had to pull the offer from that artist, and three months later I wasn't working at that place anymore, and that

To do before we go to artists.

Absolutely, And I'm like, I didn't mention any names, right, but if you want to see a really good tribute to an iconic artist, look that thing up on YouTube because it is there. And an epilogue was people saying we were trying to say no, they didn't tell us.

We didn't know, and they didn't know.

And finally we had to go, like, you see the amount of work that was put into this video.

Do you think that just happened after a day.

Don't you think we had had the yes for a while for this amount of work to go in it?

Yep?

And the response was a very very eloquent, articulate.

Mhm. It is my least favorite time of my entire career.

It was. It was I think it's horrible.

I By the way, I haven't seen that artist since, and I hope I do one day because I want to apologize.

And I know because I know that artist was was. It was a my.

Favorite moment because now I got I gotta turned around, because that was that that that got me in a place I don't like to go. Watching Prince take over a band. As we were celebrating Shaka Khan with Prince, Yolanda Adams, Stevie Wonder and India are on stage. That was a tribute and we're we're so we we booked them all and we're out out at uh sound stage.

It's called sound stage near the airport. Airport.

We're out of sound stage and the music director because it's not Prince's band, it's the band that we had.

For the show. The Prince walks in and he listened.

Prince has that moment when he expresses exactly how he feels on.

His face and then he fixes it right. That's you can see that.

You can see that a lot of plays, there's a lot of memes of him.

The mic is own. Yeah, you know all these so there was that moment.

You see it, and then he couldn't have been kinder He went to the music record and said, do you mind if I talked to the musicians about how we approached this, and watching Prince go to every instrument and being really like, he's freaking Prince, So every instrumentalist it was like I'm being talked to by Prince. And Prince could have gone anyway, but he could not have been kinder and more gentle about what about trying this approach?

We try what if we try this approach? Oh? What if this?

We do this segue? And to watch him do that was masterful and then the results you can just watch it up. I think it was two thousand and six Chaka Khan tribute and he's having a blast. He had a he had a blast.

On the guitar.

He didn't he sang background. I think his favorite, his favorite I was singing tell Man, tell him and tell me So that that was that was it was. It was anytime I got to work with Prince. It was just it was just time I got into work with princes.

Save Prince.

I'm sorry I mention that, and I mentioned that stay with friends with Prince, But you weren't there, were you?

Okay?

Save you friends?

Oh time to go.

I've taken up to I've taken up far too much of your time. What he used to make fun of me because I like, like I would.

I was the guys, you know, I'm at the content, I'm at the guy in the concert and I'm screaming on the lungs out I'm dancing, and I don't care if I'm an executive like that.

I feel comfortable saying.

He's an executive you've ever experienced who acts at a concert like I do?

I feel comfortable.

I feel comfortable saying.

And so I would do it at a Prince concert and I and I loved seeing Prince, and so it was this kind of way of making fun of me. He'd bring me up when he brought people on stays to dance, bring me on stage to dance. But this one time, Uh, he had one of those parties in his house, in his living room, and the band's playing here and they're here, and uh, I forget the woman who was the singer at the time.

No, I don't.

I don't forget uh Tamar Tamar.

Uh.

And we didn't know each other. Time said who knows who knows play that funky music? And so I put my hand up and I come on stage. I come, you know, it's not stage like you step over the monitor and you're right there, and and she goes, what's your name?

I said, my name is Stephen Hill.

And so Prince is on his on on stage stage right, just playing guitar like do love, and Stephen Hill was like, Stephen Hill, Oh, this is gonna be fun, and so they kick into it. I sing the first verse of I'll play that funky music. It was like playing in the rock and roll band, no problems rolling down in the I stay and so I do.

I do it. I'm dancing and singing and they're playing along and I'm having a great time.

And I'm like, okay, I think this one vodka making me sound good.

Playing that music, white boy playing me And so you played it funk music till you die, till you die, And something made me turn to my right and so go, Prince, why don't you playing one of those funk guitar solos for me right now?

She looks at me, stumps.

The pedal on and gives one of those of like and then and then rips off and goes and goes bananas, and I walk.

Off the stage.

So I'm not going to your band with you.

I'm like, this is fucking great, bro.

I walk I walked off the stage because it's never going to get better than that.

Never. And then it got better than that. That was your bit though, and then but then it got better than.

That because he had After that he finished performing, I go sit on side, and I'm sitting on side with like all of my peers at BT at the time, and most of them were out there because they didn't really care about the music. There was only a couple of in there. They didn't really see it. And I was telling you about it, and like someone are like, yeah, whatever. Prince walks out, walks by and said, get you gear. You gotta be in the tour bus pretty soon. Keeps walking.

Is great.

One more story, enough, cook.

More sorry, one more.

Story and now I promise you'll stop it. I'll stop at this good story. Uh.

He was doing twenty one nights in London. I'll make it, really, I'm making I'm gonna get quick. I'm gonna and I'm going to leave. I'm gonna leave the Amy Whitehouse and fade done away part out of.

It because it'll take too long.

Uh. He had a song came out.

I think it was he had some video that had a friend that had a Spanish title, Uh, Corazon meet Corason. I think it was called video We wanted me to He wanted me to see it. I was there with my with my boy Ashley, and so there's that, there's that the big room where everybody else, and then there's like his his room where he is. And we go back to his room and there's a keyboard and there's a monitor, and there's a computer where he was on

Uh.

And then he played he played, Uh, he played the video. He's a great video. And in the other monitor, he's looking at while I'm looking at the video, he's looking at a he's looking at his show from that night. He's he's because you know, again, artist development, you stay, you stay on it like he's Prince and he's still watching it to find a way to get better in I forget the year now two thousand and call it

That was Prince.

No, I don't know. It's only one and we're both and we to this day we look at each other like we're both glad the other.

One was there so we can.

Here like that.

Oh you mean like this anyhow? Wow?

Anyhow, Bro's it feels like there's no place you haven't been.

I am Forrest Gump. I am, I am. There's a way to say black Forest Gump. I'm figuring that out Forrest Gump. But yeah, and the luckiest and the luckiest guy in the world. I love music and I can't perform it.

But I feel like you've been in all of but you're so deserving of it because you're appreciative of.

Great yes and respectful, constantly, constantly thank you. I love that that is. I love that you recognize that.

Yeah. Yeah, I just I just I so.

Respect talent and talent. I think that that hones their craft and really keeps moving it forward is everything.

And we'll tell you why you're here. You're a reason why we do our show. What do you mean Like you are somebody that we would have pitched this show to, you know, I'm saying. So we thought about like doing something like this is like you know, you're you're a thought of like oh no, like with Steven Hill with.

This, well, how would he approach it?

And now that you're here.

Absolutely, but thank you man, No, thank you. I'm not I'm not kidding. I was really nervous coming in. Uh, but this was one of the best conversations I've had about I love having conversations about music and and with with musicians top five and so thank you.

I think we more importantly felt like people needed to really know what you are because people people will hear the name, people will will have light interaction, people will will understand your position, but not necessarily understand you.

Not necessarily hear you, listen to me. I am.

I am in a whole bunch of therapy, trying to understand me.

Understand me.

I mean, for me, in my mind, you are the You are the ultimate creative, and you are the ultimate champion of creatives. And and for that again we say, we say thank you you like like you are. You are important, highly important.

That that means a lot us to this universe, really means a lot to me. I mean that so thoroughly and wholeheartedly.

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Tank, and this is the Army Money Podcast, the authority on all things R and B and all things everywhere anywhere. Prince Friends was in his band. That's all I'm gonna say. That is the gentleman, steeping head of your com