R and B money, Honey, we are thanks take Valoti. We are the authorities on all things R and B.
Ladies and gentlemen. My name is Tek Valentine. This is the Army Money podcast. The authority.
It's the fucking authorities on all things R and B. There is a brotherhood in R and B. There's lineage, there's history in R and B that connects and dates back all the way to the beginning of even me. And we got a guy here to confirm a talent, a gift writer, songwriter, producer, business man. More importantly, my loved one man. Uh Papa John's Pizza brother and Domino Wings brother.
What's up? So happy to be here man?
We had many Papa John's pizza with the garlic butter sauce you can only imagine, and.
The wings all the time.
What So it's crazy because I knew, you know, we always go back to the to the beginning.
We're gonna go back to your beginning, right.
But when I, you know, as I became tank, Tank was always my nickname, but then I became tank back tank again whatever that means. On tour with Genuine and Leah because Genuine didn't want to call me the rev.
He's like, nigga, you ain't got no nickname. I was like, yeah, but help me call me.
That can't be black without you, can't be So as I become Tank, my first stop, my first real stop into developing whoever this Tank guy is going to be is Noontime.
Wow, the legendary, the legendary legend Atlanta.
And the first guy they pair me with is this guy right here there, it is.
I believe that. And you wouldn't even believe how that pairing occurred, how okay, because it came at a time where I wasn't officially signed to Noontime at that time, right, I had basically privileged to be in the building and to create and shouts out to be Cocks, shouts out to to the Noontime family for allowing me that opportunity. One but how that opportunity came was an accident because there was nobody in the building, if you remember, but us. It was just us. It was just me and you.
And that's really a fast forward into like the whole process of our creative relationship because before that, there was like a real hard grind going on. But Noontime was gone. They were going to New York to work with Aliyah Hyeah. Absolutely, so all of them, they just was like we out. Well it wasn't you know. It was a deal happening between Blackground Noontime and you know they had a relationship where all of the signed producers got an opportunity to
go work with Aaliyah. Yeah, and I had to stay back. And it was such the fortunate experience for me to have to stay back because I got to meet you. Yeah, it was just us, bro, It was just a whole studio. Yeah, and it felt like it was like thirty days. I want to say we did some time, bro. It was like how many records you think we created? Time? Right? So legend has it that we created a record a day.
We did something like that, And from that came many opportunities and shouts out to JQ because I watched his podcast and he mentioned one of the legendary records that we came up with. I brought it here with me today. By the way, we might have to put on the BIB. I like to bring some receipts. I like to bring some receipts. But the point is is there was a time when you know, I was really on the grind, and I really didn't have a footing for myself as
a producer. I really didn't even have a footing for myself in Atlanta at the time because I wasn't from Itanta, and so getting to know a lot of the Atlanta community was like really working up, you know. And so I didn't have songwriters who worked with me regularly, So I wasn't necessarily writing songs that everybody was really interested in here, you know. So it was really a grind. But when they dropped you there, it was like, Okay,
now now's the time to really show them something. Yeah, And that fast forwarded that I think into maybe this was my second trip to Atlanta, because ideal was originally the reason why I came to Atlanta in the first place. Shut yeah, yeah, yeah. My Houston brothers and my family. Let's go back to Houston.
Let's start. Let's go back to Houston. Let's start and start there. How do you how do you even get started? Like how do you say? You know what I'm saying. Give me some equipment. I need to figure this shit out.
Wow, all right, well here it goes. Only child, just me and my mom growing up, we went to Windsor Village Church. Yeah, as many of us, we start out in the church. I played drums, study jazz. And there was a group of friends that I had made from junior high school, right, Wayne Perry, Cedric Cotton, Maverick Cotton, Jay Green. This is from junior high school, sixth seventh grade. I was the youngest of our crew, and these guys were uber talented. I'm talking about like, this is the
junior high school that Chris Dave went to. Johnston shouts out to Johnston Middle School, And this is how it all started. Because if you know anything about artist development during that time, you know it took years. Right, it still should take you, and it should absolutely right. And by the time, of course, through our music musical diasp or growing up, you know, we sang in the choirs, we played in the church bands, we were in the jazz bands at school. We were really into music theory.
All of these guys played an instrument, but they also sang too. And so by the time we got to high school, Ideal gets signed to Virgin Records. I was in tenth grade when they got signed. I was also in tenth grade when Chris Dave went to play for Man Condition. Wow. So a lot of our musical influences that we had grown up around that we had admired. You know. Jason Moran was also cut from that cloth too,
and he's like director of the Kennedy Center Jazz. So it's like these types of musical pedigrees was around us and this was really inspired us. Now, me being the youngest kid, nobody was really listening to me. I couldn't sing a lit. My cousin, Charles Ben was in the
group at the time. Too. Ideal was a five man group before it turned into a four man group, and they went to Lamar High School, so I kind of followed them everywhere they went, right and by the time I ended up graduating, which I graduated from the High School for Performing in Visual Arts, which is the same school be Cos Beyonce, all of it. You know, that pedigree went through, but they were already signed to Virgin
Records and they got put on the shelf. And so by the time we get through graduating high school, you know, these guys was running around Houston singing, you know, at all kinds of events. My mother, who was like a socialite in Houston, you know, set them up singing events for Winnie Mandela, things of that such, and then they got caught the ears of this management company called Mactown Management, Too hard to Touch. This management company happened to manage
this group Htown too hard to Touch. Yeah, shout out to Bishop Barrel Stick, Pat Johnson. Those guys, Now, mind you, I didn't have any skin in the game. I'm just a kid that's rolling with my friends, hoping one day that maybe I could just be the drummer to go on tour with them. That was my dream because looking at Chris Dave and what he's doing, and I'm like, man, this is what I want to do. So are they moving with the band or at this point or no? Moving with Town.
No, I'm saying as far as ideal. So, like you said, you just wanted to go on a roll, So no, you're just really kicking it. You don't even playing drums at the shows, nothing.
None of that, Okay, But we wanted to create music together. You know, during that time, you know how much it costs to getting studios, So we didn't we didn't have the ability to have those types of privileges, especially growing up in Houston. It wasn't like an Atlanta scene. It wasn't like there was just the music business everywhere. So when Htown and Pat Johnson and Bishop Barrell invested their time creatively in these guys, they gave them an opportunity
to write and produce their own stuff. Right. Shouts out to g I Jackson, right, because he was one of the dudes in Agetown that saw me, that saw me and would invite me over to his crib and he's like, hey, play with this ASR ten keyboard a little bit. You know, let's see what you could do. Couldn't do nothing, couldn't do nothing. But it was somebody that in that nucleus saw me in a way in which that was different
from how they saw my guys. And I knew my guys were talented, like I was like waving their flag like none other. And h Town would take them on like spot dates, you know, they might have an you know, an open end. Yeah. And this was long before Noontime came into the picture, long before the records came into the pictures, long before we even took a trip to Atlanta.
Right, And.
That thing kind of fizzled after a while. This whole time idea was signed to Virgin of the assigned group to Virgin, right directly to Virgin, not through any subsidiaries or anything like that. And so it was a privileged opportunity because we saw this growth. And it took years. It took years. It took years to get on the shelf. They had a single came out that was a Marvin Gay remake on Original Gangsters. I don't know if you'll remember that.
I remember Original Man, all right, Yeah, that was that was a real uh West Coast movie.
Absolutely, So that was the beginning, right for me, seeing what could potentially occur, right, and I go to college. Then when I go to college, everybody's back at home. You know. The movie didn't do too good. The soundtrack didn't do too good. I think Virgin was changing administrations, you know, and so you know, get lost in the sauce at a certain point, but we never stopped. And so I got into a car accident maybe coming home from Houston, I mean coming home from college. And it
awarded me the opportunity to buy some gear. Yeah, and I bought an a SR tear and keyboard with Gi used to let me come over his crib and play with and tinkle with I bought it from Bishop Barrell Stick, So he's the guy that produced Knocking the Boots, produced all of a Town stuff. So that was my first keyboard and then I'm like, okay, we can create something now.
But I wasn't a keyboard player, but this was a sampler, so I learned how to manipulate things, learn how to record their vocals into the sampler, stack them up, press the one button and it sounds like a bunch of bunch of stacks. It's like the first daw So. And that was really my first foray into the technical side of things because now I felt like I had some value to bring to the table.
And so they had no other main producer at this point.
No, they had Stick and it was us as a group. We called ourselves at that time Abstract Productions, right, I know you remember Biyo has it of course. Yeah. It was like it was like our first bio hazard production company and it was us and we had an opportunity to go in and some people gave us. You know, we had some guys that threw us a little money and it was like the streets, right, So we had some guys that throw some money and said go in
the studio and do some things. So we cut this demo and I mean, like one of these songs is called Puppy Love, right. I can't wait till y'all hear that. Right. Robert Glasper loves this song too, right. But so yeah, that was the claim the fame of my contribution to them as a group coming out of Houston, still being at Howard because I would be coming home from Howard.
At Howard, I would have relationships with this guy, Eric Roberson, my right, he would be going back and forth from Atlanta, and he'd be like, man, working with these people down there, this one producer Jay Duve. I don't know who Jay Dove is until I start reading the my album credits and I'm like, oh wow. So Eric Roberson would come back, play me certain ideas. What you think about this, you know?
And I'm just a kid, like nobody's still really paying attention to the fact that I got a group back at home as signed the Virgin Records, even though I'm not on no paperwork for nothing that they're privy to, Like, it's still us at the end of the day. So it gets around to the point to where like they're in limbo. They're in limbo. I'm in school. I get to mind second semester, my junior year at Howard at this point, and they find a way to have someone
Leslie Bond. Actually, I'm gonna mention that name, Leslie Bond. What's up less through one of our cousins, Pete, who was a lawyer in Saint Louis, and he was like, you know what, I'm gonna take on this action and we're gonna fly off to la and we're gonna see what's going on with ideals project. So he came out here, he had a meeting with Eric Brooks. Ideal didn't necessarily have like a real core manager at this time, and they were able to convince them to put some attention
on the idea. And the minute that that happened, Virgin decided that we're gonna fly him out here. We're gonna put them up, put them up in the park Librea before the grove was there, right, and you thought that they was just gonna leave me, right, So now I packed my stuff up. His career and I was like, I'm out. When we leave, you leave school, You're like,
I'm I'm gone. This is it. I'm going at this particular point because at in school, you know, I'm still touting, you know, my guys got a deal like these the one up next. Yeah, you know, so so come out to LA And this had to be in nineteen ninety nine, right nineteen ninety seven to nineteen ninety nine. We were out here and I stayed on the couch. Virgin rented a van, you know, for us to have to move around with. Wasn't a lot of money going around, and
they were getting like a monthly stipend. I was getting zero, and so you know, calling my mom, let me get some you know, rolling around money, eating money, whatnot. You know, go to Western Union, pick it up, call my dad, you know, things would you know, they would help out. But virtually, you know, I'm out here figuring it out. And so Eric broke at the time, and I'm fast
forwarding a little bit. But I mean we met with like Big John, We met with like, you know, people who are at the height of their game and publishing or actually getting there. You know, I don't know what trajectory when we walked into this meeting with Big John and we're playing him all of these demos and whatnot, and they're basically like, it's like, nah, these songs suck. Come on, tell the truth about the music business.
Yeah, because everybody thinks we're looking at successful people and they've always had good music to everyone.
It might have been good music to you at the time. Oh it was great to us, right.
But then you start realizing the reality of what the big leagues really are. Yes, And we stepped into it really quickly with not a lot of representation, basically zero representation. Less didn't have experience in the music business, even though he was a lawyer, so he knew how to kind of look at deals.
And see what do what terms, but not everything right, But we were like really on our own kids in this game, like literally kids taking means with our songs, taking means with our songs. Nobody liked them. Nobody liked them. It was Do you remember the feeling of that though, Yes, because it was. I mean it's like a gut punch really and a reality check too at the same time. Because this group is undeniably talented. They will sing any group under the table. Their harmonies will like none other.
So how could anything that their voices be on not be good? Yeah, it happens bro, No, it happened. It happened. You know.
So even if you like do like I mean when you place the stuff, you do like to do a deep dive.
Like I've listened to some of my old records and I'd be like, damn, I.
Was exactly listen nobody, nobody back to a thousand.
We can still go back and listen to this Puppy Love record. And I'm sorry, but that record was fire. But were y'all playing Puppy Love for people too? We were playing that, but nobody liked it.
It was like it was jazzy. It was like, it's also called puffy Love. We gotta I want your.
Grown nigga to play me puppy love.
Right here.
This is really hot called puppy Love.
Niggas is twenty three guys. Oh, we're just talking about all the puppies.
And we're not thinking we've nurtured over over the years. We're thinking we some real musicians out here, and you know, we are adding some value to puffy Love. What had happened was is Ideal found someone in Virgin Records, right, and they asked her to come and manage them. Okay, right, And so now there was someone who spoke the language of the business, who probably didn't have any experience managing at that time, but who worked in there that worked
in that building. Her name was Carmenic Roberts. Carmen. Okay, I'm saying that shouts out to Karmeny, because the moment that she started to speak for the group, then we started to see things happening. You know. It was somebody who believed in the group, somebody who was willing to take their time and energy and speak on the behalf of right those who can't necessarily speak for themselves a certain kind of way, right. And she happened to Winter
to go to Howard and so back channel. Now I got my little cousin b Cox calling me too while he's at Clarke Atlanta University, because there was a period of limbo before we moved to LA where I was working at Mars Music, right, and he was in Clarke Atlanta and trying to figure it out, right, And part of his story is he's walking around, he finds this flyer on the ground, right, and he calls them up, and he's trying to get over there and go in turn. Hey, look,
I don't want to be paid. Just give me studio time, right, guy from Houston, PVA well trained musically, right, So back channel Cox and them already knew Idea was signed, like since we were in high school. He was an underclassman to us, right, so we're like seniors. He was like a sophomore, right, and he worked at the Guitar Center, and so we just, you know, we just try to figure out ways that how we can really just make it. So by the time we get to LA, things start moving.
Carmenique starts moving. He's in Atlanta. Carmenique sets up this meeting. Well, here's how it happened. Jay Dubb submitted some tracks and before we got to Atlanta, he came to LA and I think that there was something going on between the
Noontime relationship. But Jay Dub was out here rolling with tr and they went to the Music Grinder studios talk about the music the Music Grinder studios, right, and recorded this that we all set in the Circle in the Park Librea and we wrote about a breakup that my cousin Pete had. Right. A song called tell Me Why. It's on the Ideas first album, right, This Ja Doub
produced track. This was before we got to Atlanta and started to realize that our songs were trash, right, But this song actually made it yah because it was on a jaduve B and the five of us in the room wrote it, and so we were like, yeah, we could do this thing. Start feeling ourselves a little bit. We worked with Jay Dubb, you know. And so now on the other side of the management's back channels, Carmanique is on the phone working out, well, how can we
come down and get some more noontime records? Right, so they work out a chunk of a deal. You know, there was a lot of money going around in the music business back then, all right, And they they flew down to Atlanta. I wasn't on that ticket because, mind you, I'm not the guy that anybody's let's just get what do you what are you even doing? The guy is
the guy, you know. And and there was you know, ran around LA working with a bunch of songwriters and producers here, and you know, things just weren't sticking, you know, for them. But I was also making relationships too, and I remember making a relationship with this one producer and who would invite me over to his studio and to do some drum programming for him, and I just learned a lot about the technical aspect of it. And I
was really just sewing my oats. You know. I wouldn't just lay on the couch just waiting for ideal to to do something.
I was.
I was going to use the best of my time out here in LA the best way I could, and that was making, you know, relationships with other producers who could teach me things, because people were telling me all this one little keyboard that you're working on, it's not industry standard enough, so you got to get your game up. That's crazy that they will say that, right, Yeah, but I didn't know anything about sound design.
Well, no, the A s R ten was just I mean, at that time, we're talking Timblin.
Yeah, we are talking like.
We're talking like a game changing machine, like like.
It was a game changing talking big tank. But if you didn't know how to manipulate it like a sound if you have to, and if you knew about sound design, then right, getting sounds wasn't like going on splice today. Right, Okay, you know what people the speedy, speedy, we just couldn't afford. Speedy was walking around like you can't afford.
Its like I got, I got two, I got two for three or three before you got to.
Limit know what you want to do, because Speedy was like at least five grande no joke, no joke, Okay, I was like, where are you kidding this?
Speedy taught me a lot, though, so he told all of us, I just want to throw that out there.
Great guy, Yeah for sure. So back channels, Carmenig's figuring out how Ideal could get some more great songs, right, and I'm skipping over some things, and you can imagine how much time is passing in between, you know, all of this stuff that's going on, right, So it's you know, some months, maybe even the year, you know, and we're trying to figure it out. And I'm not officially not in the noontime, but I could still go over there and work. I could still get my bones in, and
I do appreciate. I am so appreciative of the ability to do that at that time because when they left me behind to go to New York while they were negotiating this bigger lie A deal. Before they left, Chris Hicks comes into the sea room because there was this group seven mile who was working who was scheduled to work but everybody was gone. He's like, can you make this track like this with these elements? Kevin's gonna be here. He'll get you some guitars, you know, woo woo whoo.
And I'm like, okay, cool. So I make this track and seven Mile loved it. They cut a song to it. Sony Music cuts a check for it. I get a check, they get dropped. You got to check. I got to check. Shouts out to seven Miles. But I was there in noontime studios alone, and then you fly in. Yeah yeah, shut out the goosebumps. I swear that's where a lot of my advanced money went. And I guess the inspiration
for this legendary record that we ended up cutting. I don't know if it was the first record we cut.
It's absolutely the inspiration, though, I promise you it is. I remember that forty dollars. Oh man, I stretched it out.
I kept flipping it over. Your advance was gone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I fucked that up.
But he got seven Mile money. He got yeah, seven money money.
But we wasn't like, we wasn't balling by no means. It was all work in Pisa by that's it.
Yeah, so, and I still wasn't signing noontime And I keep saying that because what magically occurred, and I think it occurred by accident, was afternoon Times Trip was up with recording with Aleah in New York. Nobody could figure out who did this one track that Aliah just so happened to cut too, because on the CDs, on the dats, the names of the producers, just the music, the music and what I remember of the story. And you know, I could I could have it a little bit botched
because I wasn't there is Jazzy heard the track. Jazzy Fay heard the track, and it was like, oh, I want to write to this one for Leah, and Blackground loved the track too, and Leah loved the track, and so Johntay and Jazzy jump on the record and John Tay writes the first verse, Jazzy writes the second verse, and it comes back to be I don't want to wow and yeah, so when they find out that it was me, we gotta sign, we gotta sign it. Let's
all I need to talk to you. And it didn't even happen like that just yet, because there were some other things that were occurring in the business side of it. Now Notontime went up there and cut a bunch of records with A LEA right, and during that time, I guess whatever deal that they had going on didn't work out, And from what I understood of it is that Blackground didn't want any of those I LEO records anymore, including
I don't want including I don't want it. But when it came back down, while the deal was still moving on, I was trying to make sure that I secured the potential for this record to be the greatest record that it could be. So I was like, Teddy, can you help me on it? Brian, can you help me on it? Every help finish it? Yeah, to help finish it, and so you know, I think we came up with like maybe another version of it, and then Chris was like, Nah,
they like the record the way it is. I was like, Wow, that's great, and so, you know, things were moving forward until it wasn't until we got word that Blackground didn't
want any of those records. But somehow, and I don't know how, shouts out to Chris Hicks for whatever magic that he did during that time, But somehow that record got on Priorities Desk Priority Records, and they were doing this movie next Friday, and they wanted Aaliah so bad to be on this soundtrack, right that they were willing to pay whatever Blackground wanted for Leah's appearance, and this was the record that they chose. And I was like,
thank you Jesus. Yeah. So the song was never on her album then, not yet, Okay, okay.
Because she wasn't working on any albums that put on two different projects. She was working on an album, she was doing movies. I think she had tooken hiatus from like making music, and she was doing movies. She did Romeo Must Die and then she did Queen and the damn right, and there was no Alia music out there until this Next Friday soundtrack.
Yeah, yeah, And you know it, it was fortunate because they paid whatever her appearance fee was. I'll tell y'all how much that what I know of it was it was two hundred thousand dollars just to get the record, just to get her, just for her. Yeah yeah. And it was forty three thousand dollars for the track twenty three. I don't know that's I'm not pressure I was seventeen five. I don't know what. I don't know what that's at least dope prices. But what three is like.
Somebody took seven, somebody was probably hey man, hey it was forty three thousand.
Somebody definitely we're not because they're like, you're not complaining forty three or you have to give new Time noontime there their piece, but in their piece again because they had publishing too. But I'm talking about the cash. Oh yeah, yeah.
Well when I said they had publishing, like we when we did the deal with Noontime, they did you a production deal and a publishing so they gave you an advance right, and I guess to kind of buffer what the recruitment process was, they'd only recoup like maybe one thousand, two thousand dollars. They take the twenty percent, you know, for the Noontime management side, in which at that time I didn't think I was managed by Noontime. I thought
I was managed by by Carmenique. Yeah, okay, you know, so it was a lot of other things that were in play at this particular point that I had. But what happened was you got the noontime price. Yeah, I got the noontime.
Yeah, so they you know, their stock is what got you and you're ten all in, you're definitely yeah.
Exactly right.
So yeah, so your prices got bumped up so it was all justified.
Yeah, more for sure. There was no gripes. It wasn't so what you buy. Did you buy anything stupid? Yes? I bought some five hundred dollars product boots that I wore like twice. Okay, I call that stupid because you know, it was just like, you know, why did I do it? The little sports joints that everbody had? No, it wasn't smart. It was like it was like, you know what's ones I'm talking about? It was the ones that came out
after those. It was like the like the big big toe boots, like how they wear them big shoes now, Yeah, yeah it looks like those. But did you feel good when you had them all for the first couple of times? Yeah, But then I didn't. I didn't really care much after that, that's all.
At first, they didn't get the reaction you were looking for.
He's gonna kill They didn't kill you. Nobody nobody ever looked down. And I liked my vands and my shelters. Yeah, you know, I was cool with that.
I couldn't and just knowing you like the product, just it's not me and the product.
I don't know music videos, but I remember I remember actually taking Ryan I want to say it was Ryan Nooney. They took me out on Rodeo Drive. When we went and got him, I was like, what y'all want to Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I shouldn't have did that either. Nonetheless,
it happens, brother, it happens. It happens. You were feeling uh, you were feeling grateful, feeling grateful, but I still wasn't officially signing Noontime and me and b Cox took a trip to New York City and I started to have meetings and I had this lea song in my pocket, and Sony Music offered me three hundred and fifty thousand.
Come on, come on, three fifty yeah, uh huh, okay, all right now we're talking about yeah, yeah, we went from we were from thirty all in till forty three.
Was seven missing yeah, Sony Music. Now, Now let me tell you there's a catch to this. If there's always a cat catch, you know, some guys down at Noontime called window those Yeah, I bet they did. I got a phone call. That's a record. You're gonna get a phone call. You might get a visit. It started with a phone call, started with the like, hey, so we a we heard you had this meeting. So look, you could take that deal if you want, but you won't
having a LEO record. And it could have happened like that. I mean, John T wrote the record, Jazzy wrote the record, Kevin played guitar on the record. Fully capable of recreating it, you know. But it wasn't that I didn't want to be signed the noontime at all. I had an opportunity to see what the value was, right, My heart was definitely one I wanted. I wanted to be accepted by these guys, and I wanted to be in their system because what you saw happening in that building was pure magic.
Special It was pure magic. But you know that it came with a cost. It came with some sacrifices, and you know, a lot of people don't know what those sacrifices might look like because people are so enamored when they do hear the numbers. When they do, you know, oh, you could have got three to fifty're like, yeah, but at the same cost.
But let's break this down too, right, let's break this down. Most people think you signed publishing deals for them to actually help you get music on more projects.
That part.
You ultimately do a publishing deal because you need the bread and they're kind of a bank, the same kind of thing that you did these record deals.
It's really a bank, right. That doesn't mean.
That the people that work at these publishing companies are going to actually land you placements or have a system to even put you in that will get you placed. Right now, they may see, what's what's the ship they used to send out, what's the sheet?
What was it called Who's Looking? Who's Looking? List? You have that? How many times have you landed a song off of Who's Listening? I've led it none Who's Looking?
So that's you know, at the R and B Money podcast where we're about the information and the understanding, when you say I could have went and done that deal, but that might have just only been.
For the three fifty, right, and I'd have been in limbo, in limbo, stuck in stuck in some crazy It would have been blown.
Of course, at that age, with nobody to actually go and pitch your records where they're not actually coming to a studio like noontime to hear these debt tapes that are putting you in a position to make way more than three fifty.
Because it's walking into that building that was just whatever. Once you walked into that building, whatever was presented to you. It just makes sense, right, right.
He was leaving the right and so I mean, I made the sacrifice, but I also felt like I was paying my way up. Of course, I said, I don't know how much of my talent really spoke for it, outside of the fact that these stars aligned for me in a way in which that allowed me an opportunity to get a Liah song on the next Friday soundtrack. My dream was to work with Alia. It felt like I manifested there's some kind of way, you know, and noon time was the catalyst to do that, you know.
And I'm still in there, you know, grinding and really just trying to be accepted by any and everybody up in there. Right So they signed me, Hm, got signed, I got sign sign We're official, We're signed. Were the numbers anywhere closed? No? That number was thirty five thousand dollars it was ten percent of three fifty yeah, okay, okay, okay, all right, but I got a forty three thousand dollars Alijah check. Okay, okay, So now we are seventy eight if you want to add that onto it. Like I
worked for that, do that. That's all it all counts. I was in the studio day in and there for free, for free, working for right, So all of these factors played into it. And of course, as a kid got the record placed, they got the record place. You're not thinking about this stuff though as a kid, yeah, you know, and you're not thinking about what they're going through on the other side of their businesses for other certain things to happen. Right, So I get the front half of that thirty.
Five thousand, and this is an advance, right, let's talk about that. Okay, So right, because of be paid back, it got to be paid back, but check it out.
It wasn't that much to pay back. Right. But that's what I'm saying. So you're going to be in the black very very soon, right, you know if that black you know what that black looked like for noontime was maybe taking out a thousand here off of this check. You know two thousand here, you know it. It was a process. Yeah, it was a process. And you know, again they were a production company. So knowing what I know now, again you don't know what was going on
in the back end of their business practices. But I only got paid the front half of that thirty five. I never got paid for seventeen five. I never agreed. I never got paid to second seventeen to five. However, that Aliachek came in, that seven mile check came in. You know. So now as an adult, when I'm looking at certain things, it's like, you know, maybe one hand washes the other. Maybe I felt slighted then as a kid, you see what I'm saying, Maybe I felt like the outcast.
Maybe I felt like Cinderella in the room because there was nothing that I was privy to until this official signing happened. Right, But what I'm thankful for is the way in which things still happened, because if it happened like I wanted to happen, I wouldn't have been with you.
I wouldn't have had that opportunity need to see the greatness that you were and have a part to play in the legend of who Tank was in Atlanta because after that, after people started hearing what we were creating, then they were like, oh my god, more work, more work came, more work came. Yeah, And that was like the pinnacle of where our brotherhood messed right and collaboration
came back into the forefront. For me, it was like, my goodness, now I'm creating with somebody that wants to create with me one, you know, two, and we're creating great music and people are liking it, right, and so that leads us to moat yeah yeah, you know, my god, yeah yeah, and being he's getting those DreamWorks checks too, yeah, dream work, yeah, you know. And that's that's when I started to learn about what else had to happen. Yeah, yeah,
come on, man, I'm gonna get you thirty. But now you know what happened we smoke on a little bit earlier. Hey guys, It's called a kickback kick. So what happens is the kickback is.
I'm going to put it, I'm going to invoice it for a little bit higher than what you probably would make normally, and then once you get it, you kick that extra back to me period period. And that was that was an industry standard. Back in the day for n RS.
Wh's is kind of what it was because they controlled the pocketbook, they controlled the you know what I mean, they controlled the checkbook, and you have to decide, you know how bad you wanted it, right, And to me, it was always worth that sacrifice. Always you need it. You need a little five from this, that's it. From a thirty five, absolutely right, because I usually only make twenty. You also need you need fifteen the on the pub absolutely here you go.
Oh yeah you was, he was making it.
I need all seven songs, right, all seven I need all seven.
Right, Well, when you were putting them out the way you which you were putting them out.
There because I was cheating. I was cheating the game seven songs. I'm one hundred percent, so I'm cheating right. So to me, I'm that math. I'm going to dropping an eighty five. Ain't really, I'm doing long term math. I'm like I can do these all day, days, all day.
But it's not just that one that came. It was fooling around. Yeah, fooling around. Yeah, we went out and we did tear shit up rocked joint. Yeah yeah, damn fooling around. What so did any of the records make me your first album. Nope, nope, Like I said, none made the album.
So the relationship, like you said, the relationship between Noon Time and Black Row, went sour because okay, okay, And so when it went.
Sour, none of it. No, I won't need none of that. I was like, none of it. Wow, ye none. So a lot of those records went on the you know, on the shop list, and so I got my own room in Zach's studios after that, and then Zach. It was it was a time where I felt like everything was an urgency for me because you know, I had my child in the world at this point, you know, and because things were so inconsistent for me at that time. You know, I'm it wasn't the best relationship with my
son's mother. I did have the ability to provide as consistently and as good as I should have at that point, you know, but I was working my ass off. So I named my production company State of Emergency at this point. State of Emergency. State of Emergency was the angst of everything that was going on with me in Atlanta at that point, and I started putting rock guitars in everything, and I started like, really just you know, utilizing my creative community as much as I could of people who
really wanted to work with me at that point. And so I had guys like Chris Dave in the studio with me. I had guys like PJ Morton in the studio playing on tracks. And you know, PJ attests to it himself, like he you know, he used to come into the studio with me and play on keys, and he attributes me to teaching him how to make beats and things of that such like out of his own mouth. This was a whole nother learning process. But I wanted
to create this band state of emergency. And there was this producer, well, he was a rapper at first, and it was somebody that I saw a talent in that was remarkable because I saw the work that he did with Jim Crow and I'm like, bro, you're really producing. But he didn't necessarily know how to navigate the equipment right, but he would move around between me or between bea Cox, or between whoever he could to learn how to work
this equipment right. And coming out of their situation, he was like, I really want to be I want to take my shot of this production thing. And so I was like, you know, okay, cool, and we did this thing out of my apartment, right and he would bring street dudes through the crib and you know, Rent would get paid. You know what I'm saying. Things would come through, and you know, it was a cool little relationship for
that process. During this process, I was building up State of Emergency and Seasac dropped like twenty twenty five grand to have their opening party in Atlanta, and they wanted State of Emergency to be the band of this performance. And I got to choose the artist that would be on this stage, all right, And it was at Club eleven fifty and literally all of Atlanta came out. It was packed house, packed house. One artist that was on
that stage was Jay Holliday. Another artist that we performed on, which happened to be like the headlining artists that we performed with, was Leela James all right. Chris Dave was on drums. Shout out to John John Tracks on guitar.
It was a remarkable situation. It was like we was a fifteen hundred and nothing to Atlanta, right, and it felt good because we was getting you know, we was getting some traction and we were making some records, and we had this one front person that I put a lot of energy into and her name was Carrie Hilson.
She was my lead a state of emergency, and you know, watching Carrie's interviews, it was just kind of like things weren't so a random, you know, they were very like intentional on my part when it came to her specifically. And this was the first time that I think anybody had seen her on a stage in Atlanta, first time anybody would have seen Jay Holliday on stage in Atlanta.
And the type of music that was behind them, this was real intentional music, like real musicians playing on these tracks, like at this point, pulling from the Donnie from Houston that all I had was my spirit of collaboration at that point, you know, And I took up engineering right because I wanted to learn all the technical aspects of it. So I was a damn good engineer too as well, mixing my own stuff all of the above. So people heard these and there was like, yeah, these records they
can't go nowhere but for these artists. So we weren't shopping any records, Like I wasn't trying to shop these songs. I was trying to make this a group a thing. And so at the same time I was working with this producer who was a rapper at first. His name is Polo to don A Right. One thing that came out of my relationship with was Pimping all over the World. Yeah yeah, right, So Ludacris hit record Pimping all over
the World. And to add some clarity, because I think in Carrie's interviews she said that she cut that record in Atlanta, she actually cut that record in Los Angeles. It was on a trip that me, Polo, rich Boy, and Carrie took to LA and we worked in ron Fairs Studio and we created that track there and she sang the hook, Polo wrote the hook, and we had the track. Polo came with the brilliant idea that did should go to Ludacris. Right, this trip was us as
a unit at this point. This was us as a unit, I think because I had the band state of Emergency, and I called my production company state of and see. Me and Polo had one little debate that was like, well, I'm gonna call my ship's own four and I'm like, okay, I'm in Atlanta. I don't have no problem with that like, if this was the Neptunes, right, you could be for real,
I'll be chat you know, that's fine. And we were a unit, at least in my eyes, we were a unit, right, And so when it came to certain things that were because Polo had he was very charismatic in making relationships, so when the Jim Crow thing fizzled with in the scope, he was able to secure his relationship, his management relationship with dj J and that was a very beneficial relationship because it allowed access. Still, we still had access, and I'm using the term we very loosely at this point
because in my mind, you got the production team together. Yeah. So so we got a unit and I got all these great records with carry and State of Emergency. Yeah. It was a little it was a little triggering watching the recollection of how the story was told, because nobody's really going to tell your story the way in which
you are. You know you're going to tell it, and you know that's why I just have to offer the opportunity for the clarification for certain things to be there, especially with my relationship with Carrie to speak, because a lot of things didn't happen as randomly as she recalled them, you know, granted, like I think that she had it all planned out in her mind the way in which she described it, you know, from you know, not necessarily wanting to be in those girl groups that she was
in and all of those things. And Anthony Dent actually brought Carrie to me, right, Carrie was running around the streets of Atlanta doing the things that she was She was a very talented songwriter. Everybody knew it, but Carrie really wanted to be a solo waters And that's the interest that I took in her is I want to make you the front of you having your own lane, and we're doing this crazy sound in music that I
think is yours. So you know, it came out. You know that there were certain things that happened between men Polo that didn't necessarily work out the way in which I thought it should work out, But there was there was a relationship he developed with Carrie where and Carrie recalls it in her meeting with Timberland about how she was approached and talked about what producer would get your
music right? And I think she tried to recall whether or not me or Polo had said that I wouldn't have never said that because I got Carrie's music, I understood what it was, I understood who she was as an artist, at least I thought I did at that time.
And the introduction to Timberland came into play, and that was a relationship that Polo had, And so again I wasn't necessarily privy to how all of that transpired within that, but I did get a call because there were demos that were being played in the Four Seasons hotel, and I don't know if Carrie recalls, but I was also in that meeting. I was in that Four Seasons meeting
with Timberland, and I got the call from Polo. Hey, Timberland is hearing these songs y'all did why don't you bring the files down to that strange Angel joint because I think Timberland want to put his hands on it. Not me. I'm like, oh my god, Timberland likes my shit, right right, this is one of my favorite producers ever, right,
enamored by the opportunity. Right And even though you know, me and Polo had some differences that were going on during the constructs of what he was building with DJ, I was still happy to be a to not only see him flourish, but to see an opportunity happened for Carrie to flourish too, And it was just it was something that I wasn't going to say no to, So of course I went with your files, went with the files,
went down to the meeting. I had my boy DJ Rogers with me, right, And this was a random phone call, just as random as Carrie said she had gotten a phone call that morning or when she had her beats braids in or however. Right, I got that same call, and I rushed down to the Four Seasons to have
a meeting with Timberland and Polo and Carrie. But they were there before I got there, and I'm not sure what was said in the room before I got there, but when I walked into the room, I was introduced as Polo's engineer, and I was like, oh, okay, there's a different dynamic plan here now. Totally threw me off guard. And because I had the opportunity to meet Timberland, I wanted to, you know, fit get you know, I wanted to meet my idol on a.
On a level that positive. I didn't want to start shit, right, but.
At the same right, you know, it wasn't It wasn't like I was. I was just Polo's engineer at that time, and I don't know what the agenda was specifically, but I still wanted to play whatever part that needed to be played for that scenario to go the way. Yeah, but nobody's going to speak for you the way that
you're going to speak for you. And I had never had anyone speak up for me in any situation, and so in that situation, I felt like it was necessary for me to say, you know, hey, those records y'all listening to I produced those records, yeah right, And I also produced to Leah. I don't want to. I do not know how that rubbed on Timbland because he's like, so what at that point, and I didn't. I didn't
feel like it was well received. And it was just like another gut punch for me, just meeting my idol in this type of fashion, and but he's loving my records. So it was like it's a high and a low. So I'm sitting in this meeting and I'm hearing them talk around these records and Timberland's like, yeah, Carrie, that's strange, Angel, that's your cry me a river everything Carrie said. I'm like yeah, in my mind, like, oh my god, Templand can't lift a finger to this guy, but he's fucking
with my shit. Right. So the end of the meeting comes, Timlin's like I want you to come to Miami tomorrow and he's looking at Carrie and Polo and we're gonna do this record strange angel, and I'm like, word, so I raised my hand like I'm in class, literally raise your head literally like why the fuck am I raising my hand? But I'm like, hey, guys, like, since you guys are gonna go do my record in Miami, you
think I could come along too, right? Timerlin looks at Polo and then carry dapts him up and walks out out the room. Oh shit, And I'm like wow, right, so we're talking about R and B money, right, it ain't always the highs. It's not always the highs, and so you know, and you could just think of the mental load that that that could have taken on someone. And DJ was there, he saw the whole thing happen, and Carrie was silent the whole time, and it just hurt me that she was silent. It just hurt hurt
me to the to the core. So I remember I sent carry alone message, I sent Polo loan message Skytel two a's I think was in this right, and basically that was it. But I did get a phone call from Miami from Carrie. I don't know if she remembers this either, and I think mbling it came around to the point of saying, hey them State of Emergency guys you was working with, why don't we bring them down to Miami let them play on some stuff. But they had already done Strange Angel, they had already redid it.
Carrie came back to Atlanta played it for me, was banging amazing, right, Like come on, it's a Timblin beat. So I'm like, that's dope, you know, it's a dope remix of what we had already came with. I got those records too, if you want to hear them. But nonetheless,
the beauty of it was in that phone call. I felt like I had to regain whatever power that I could, and so I told her, I was like, if we can come down there and co produce on them records, just like how he does with the other co producers that he currently works with. Specifically for you, like, yeah, I think my guy as would all be for it. And this was a collaborative effort, so it wasn't just me. State of Emergency was not just me. It was John
John Tracks on guitar, Chris Dave on drums. This was like my creative community, and so they wanted to hear back from me positive news that we could do this, and it just didn't come out like that. After I told Carry that on the phone, I never got that phone call back. And so the next thing that happened is I think Carrie had a first single come out and it was the way I are. And now I'm
making up all kinds of scenarios in my mind. I'm like, come on, man, Like, you know, Timberland is like my favorite producer of all time, Like there's no way, like I can't hold a finger to him for nothing, you know. So but I listened to this record and on the big ending of the record, I heard Timberland saying anonymous voice, state of Emergency. I don't know why he said that, but I'm making up in my mind like wow, why
would he say that? And I'm like I cannot I just had all these kind of scenarios running around in my mind. I can imagine why would he say, I can imagine, you know, so just another gut punch And I'm like Timberlin, don't need to be gut punching me? Like who am I? I have not even the minuscule amount of hit records to even match up to this guy's statue, and all the records that he's coming out
with is crazy. The single that he came out with would carry yeah, crazy, But just it goes to show when the mental starts getting messed with, where your mind could really go with a hole. Yeah, you start connecting things that may not even that might that might not even be relevant relevant. I moved back to LA and maybe there was some years and stuff in between that, but we missed a whole lot of success stories, like even being in hit CO at that time, had an
opportunity to engineer. Yeah, got flew to La Usher's vocals, got Grammy nominated for that.
You're the actual engineer for yeah? Yeah, Okay, okay, yeah, okay, who's the engineer for?
You? Read the credits, You're the engineer, Read the credits. Okay. It's a money business. It's a money business. All I got to say, is read the credits. No, no, no, for sure, I don't know who said what. Yeah, you know, but it's in the engineer cut the demo and the song at Larabie out here in l A. Downed his vocals in did all of those you cut him? I got
the picture. I got they're going to receive. They gotta receive for that as me, Sean Garrett, Little John and Usha, we were the only four in the studio here in LA. That doesn't take away what j q's contribution to it was. It didn't take away the night. You know, Carrie and I were in the studio working on carry stuff and you know, Sean Garrett brings out the Little John CD and they ended up writing Red Light HM together on
Confessions as well, which was the bonus track. So there was a lot of opportunity and a lot of time that created a lot of plays. Yeah, you know, and you know from that, there was a lot of positive things that happened, and there was a lot of things
that weren't necessarily perceived as positive for me. And that's just the side that I would like your audience to understand that there's ebbs and flows in this thing, and you really have to be on top of your decision making skills and your ability to represent yourself certain kinds of ways so that you know, you could you know, thrive.
So looking back on it and looking back on some of these instances, do you feel as if.
You should have done a little more music business? Definitely? I take full responsibility for not doing the business the way in which the business was being done. Then. Yeah, right now, maybe I didn't have the resources. I do remember going to DJ and asking DJ, can can you please also manage me too? He said yes, But then there was a I might not can do this conflict interest? Right,
But I wonder where that conflict of interest was. You know, rich boys started in my apartment, Carrie started with the whole culmination of the thing. There was a relationship there that was fractured, and I didn't know how to manage that. Yeah, Just honestly speaking, I didn't know how to manage that. Yeah, And that was something that I have to take to the chin. And I think that, you know, even throughout time,
you know, Paolo and I still work together. After that, you know, I ended up mixing the whole Lloyd King of Heart's album. I ended up actually really becoming Polo's engineer at one point. You know, if you really want to, just look at it hindsight twenty twenty like, and we made good money off of that. Yeah, this is bleeding. This is blood that runs store fucking veins. So blood, sweat and tears is from it.
All is you as you love it. The operative word is loving you. Keep loving it and keep doing the work. It'll it'll. It's Jay said, make all the room for you, and at the end of the day makes all the difference.
And it has made all the room. Come on, man, it has made up. Man.
Now you've had it. You've had and you have an amazing career.
Bro. Yeah, I agree. It's still going. It's still going. Yeah, what what you got over there? Show? It just tapped into my you know, to my talented mind. We got talented people here we do. He brought it, He brought a camera with Yeah, yeah, do a few things. Yeah.
He talking about going on the road and I went on and road musician, you know, I went on and road as the background singer.
That was my dream, you know, to be an m D brother.
Donnie Scants, Yes, sir, you've been doing music a real.
Long long long, long long time, a long time.
You know a lot of things about music, and all of your journeys are making music.
You've been inspired buy a lot of music. Today. The R and B Money Podcast will like to inquire what you want to know about.
Your musical knowledge, your musical information. Uh uh, the music that makes sense to you. Mm hmm, that touches your heart your.
Mm hmm.
Top fun, your top five.
Top five, your top five A repe singers are and the songs.
We know, you know, we know you rolled gen Mere tube. You see what's your top five?
Yeah, yes, yeah, top five, your home top f.
This niggas before.
I bet ninety different times, ninety different ways.
This is insane. It never gets old. This is great, joyous Donnie Scance Scantana, Yeah, that was one of them. Come on, man, Top five R and B singers living undead your world? You call it? Marvin Gaye A Donnie Hathaway, Yes, I not. I mean you can't leave out Stevie Wonder you better not, you better not. They're going down that road now. But I'm gonna add some new guys open there too. I'm really messing with Dixon. Shut the building
down at the R and B money line. He went crazy, shout out to Dix, so yeah, put him on them. He acted up. Y'all need to go listen. Yeah, man, you do here, you do okay, and uh, I'm gonna just throw a left curveball because I need to put you said R and B singers, this was your world. Whatever, go crazy. This young girl Malaya. Are y'all familiar with her? No, I'm not. Y'all need to check her out. She's on Kean Harold's new album, mhmm Forever Land. Y'all should definitely
check him out. Robert. Yeah, her name is Malaya Malaya. We shall do that. Yeah, my goodness, the.
Army money community will do that. Top five R and B songs h son mm hmm.
Sparrow by Marvin Gaye. Okay, that's interesting. You know that one? No, it was on the Here My Dear album I Love You for Life? Is that the name of that? Yes? One of them? Yeah, what a song. I know where I was when I heard that. Yeah, I'm gonna go with a lee. I don't want to. I'm definitely gonna put one of mine on that. Okay, that's three. I belong to you, Lenny Kravitz.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, very special.
Oh don't get enough R and B credit. Lenny don't get enough credit. Bro, Lenny is R and B, R and B star. He's an R and B rock star. Man. Ain't nobody fucking with Lenny Man? Mm hmmm. I love Lenny Kravits, bro Man, And I'm not even gonna lie with be Cox in them. There were made for me with money long I'm not gonna not yet. Yeah. My peoples up in that piece. Yeah, special record for the guys. And the release of that, the BT version of it. Yeah,
know they cooking, they cooking. They all right, here we go. What what else you got? I got some mother, Yeah, because I know this because he did. He did. He said some names right was here. So this is this is gonna be a little bit different for you. Brother.
Okay, I ain't saying no next, I ain't saying no names, A saying no names, saying no Nigga was.
One three. Yes, he got them president vocals. Now you know what I mean.
He was taking out the White House and ship man Skinny been at the White House making policy, say the Secretary of the fifth Yeah, they need the general to do general, Yes, yes, generally. Yeah, So this segment of the show, very important segment. We save it for last. You know what I mean, cart, I ain't saying no names. Will you tell us a story funny or fucked up? Are funny and fucked up? Along the journey.
Again? It's already just got more. I know you got more and some ones you don't want to put. I'm saying who you second's saying no name. Second thing. We was in New York. Okay, okay, so right now, I like your attitude. I like you first. He went from I don't know you know so one time.
So listen right now, this is Donny's scam, the scam man himself.
I ain't saying no names. We were in New York City. That's a place. That's the place. Who we went to go drink saki at a saki bar in New York City. I didn't know how saki hits after you drink so many shots. I ain't saying no names. But we was at the Renaissance Hotel in Manhattan. One you have to take an elevator to get up to the lobby. And God forgive me because we were so oh man, I don't even know if I should tell this one. Oh
my goodness. Well, security had to help me in this other individual up to our rooms because we kind of passed out in that one floor elevator going up after the cab dropped us out and we get up to our rooms. And New York, you had a whole lot going on during this time, Like, yeah, I fell out in the hotel room, only to wake up to see in the room full of disarray, knowing that some things happened around me at God put me to sleep for
mm hmm. Didn't want you to witness it, didn't want me to up participate or even think of being a part of And I can just remember seeing things around me that were used and the hangover is real. And I ain't saying no names who was used on ship not used on. But that wake up is different. That wake up is different. I'm glad I was sleep now that I'm forty seven, but I could think about it because when I wasn't forty seven and I woke up, I was mad.
Man, I'm telling you listen on forty eight and I'm still mad. I ain't got over that night I fell asleep, I have not, but that's the only sleep that only God could. Only God, only only God could have knocked me out and kept me out of that because I needed it.
No, boy, no, only you know who that story is.
Oh my god, I tolt you. I gotta, I gotta tell me. I ain't saying no names and tell my story like that.
Oh my god, But the names are so legendary in the story. Oh yeah, good job, good job, good job, Lord, good job. Thank you, thank you, thank.
You, brother, Donnie Skance. You have been my relative for quite some time. My brother, it is. It is really good to see you. Yes, it is, you know what I mean, after so long, so long, it's really dope, you know, talking down memory lane and being able to put myself back back there as a kid, you know, twenty We were kids, three year old kids on our own.
Because kids get on their families insurance till they're twenty six, now right. I wasn't on none of that. But that's just to show you the level in which you're still.
Side.
I guess I was grown for a long time and have no insurance. I don't even know what we were talking about.
We were outside outside, literally, we were outside in Atlanta by ourselves, trying to figure out and you know it's it's I mean, I couldn't tell you enough how much I love you and appreciate you.
Brother.
Thanks having the beginnings? Are you know or why we are who we are and what we are man? And while we will continue to be absolutely it's the love. It's the love for it. It is the love for ourselves that will continue to drive us. And that's what we teach. Yeah, that's what we continue to preach and teach.
And I hope your audience was able to take away a lot from what they needed to hear from this. Well, they hear the journey man, and that's and that's the most important y'all are doing. Y'all are doing God's work here, sir. Trust that trust that the information is important. The information is very very important. And I think people could utilize this and take from our experiences and make this world a better place, sir. That's what Michael said, just you
and me. That's the only purpose. Man. Thank y'all so much.
My name is and this is the Yay Money Podcast, the authority on all things R and B.
This has been the journey. This has been been to health, this has been music, this has been everything our brother talent Donnie scat Yes, R and B Money.
Money R and B Money is a production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe to and rate our show, and you can connect with us on social media at j Valentine and at the Real Tank. For the extended episode, subscribe to YouTube dot com, forward Slash, R and B Money