Babyface

gonna labor long the intro. I'm just gonna say, the greatest singer, songwriter producer of all times, all times, all times, it's the Kinneth baby Face Edmonds in the building. Thank you. I like who y'all talking about. You know who we're talking about. You're walking here with that kind of sweater, and I know who got label owner label Yeah, you gotta gotta. It's gotta sound better than the Lady Mogul. I mean we are, we are following in giant footsteps.

You understand what I'm saying. And so this moment right here is like um surreal and in real life and we've we've we've we've had our moments in our relationship for a long time. But um, for you to come here and sit with us, man, we are I mean truly beyond honored. Well, I was honored to come and see with you guys. Thank you, bank you. Why why wouldn't I I'm a major fan so and have been

for years. But you know that, sir, So it's a I think it's wonderful what you guys are doing and what you do and what you bring to the culture and to R and B and keeping in your lives. It's it never died in the first place. So and uh so I'm honored to be here. I want to start off with a story and then we'll come we'll get into the the nuts and bolts and the nicks

and crannies. Um, you called me one day and you said, Tank, I'm doing a Christmas party pretty you know, pretty huge deal for some cool people, and I'm going to play and sing, and I'd like you to play for me and sing as well. And excuse me. The way I translated that to my mom was baby Face just called me. He said, I'm the greatest. He said, I'm the most special artist, singer, songwriter, producer he's ever seen in his life. And he can't do this without me. That's how it translated.

Don't or if that um And he's the baby, I'm the face. That's basically what he said. And that's you know, that's the that's the story I told. And so we get into rehearsal over at the amazing studio that we should have a room in and we should have a room there, and and and I don't know why. I'm a pocket I'm a pocket player when it comes to, you know, being a musician playing people. I'm a pocket guy. I'm the guy that holds down the fort. It's always been my role in a in a band since I

was a kid. And for some reason, I just felt the need to dazzle you with my with my piano and takes and my dexterity and all of my information within the one key you had me playing it. And I'm just I'm just tickling the ivory while you're you're singing, and you're just kind of looking like, you know, I'm thinking it's like, yeah, he's killing it. I'm thinking that's the look you're giving me. And then finally you're like, God,

we said bah, right, right, do the whole thing. And then you look at me You're like, yeah, yeah, I think I think less of you more of me. And I said, yeah, yeah, that's the that's a that's about rights. That's what you heard. Remember that, those those were the real words. But even in that moment, man, it was like you know, it was school was in session pretty much, and we got there and we did that event, man, and I think I saw Dustin Hoffman. I was like,

where are we? And I appreciate you, but just even thinking of me in that moment, man, and not firing me that you weren't fired. There were that night. There was Warren Batty, there was a Barbra Streis saying, uh, everybody was in that audience. And I have to tell you that, um, because I've done it a couple of times with them, because I'm a friend of Carol Bear Sager,

that's who we did the party for it. So but I have to tell you that to this day, Um, they still talk about that night that you performed and how beautiful your rendition of the Christmas song that we don't remember which Christmas song we did, but um, they still Carol still talks about whoever that guy was, he had the most amazing voice, and I said, that's why I brought him, because the emotion that these things with, it's not just not just moving the notes, but it's

how you approach it. And from from being able to say sing any word or or any lyric, if the melody and the emotions out there, then you can just write right, you know, go right back by you. And you did not disappoint that night. I still get browning points from years ago from bringing you to that spot, so I appreciate a little more you. It's about you. I don't remember saying those works more me. That's not even in my vocabulary more me. But that's how you

heard it. I probably I probably just said maybe don't play as much, and you took it as like you no, brother face, you definitely say no, that's how you remember those. Those words aren't in my vocabulary more me. We were in a very complied face. I understand, I understand, but more met. So again, when I tell this story, he's

the baby on the face. I'm the greatest ever. Um we we we we love to we love to start at the beginning, face like we love to say or love to ask, when was the first time someone said to you or that you realized that you had something special, something special? The gift. I don't know if I ever

thought of it as a gift. It's just something that you do in terms of like even just picking up a guitar and then and then kind of singing and doing it kind of just what comes natural, not necessarily being a piano star guitarist, just kind of like learning enough to play to accompany myself. UM, singing in um m hm um in high school, like when I was in sixth grade, we had a singing group in sixth grade. Um, nobody else could sing, but she still had a group.

It was like give me in the hole still, Michael Trust, Teddy Gaines and um, um McClure something Larry McLure and uh, and we sung. We sung Smokey Robinson's uh saw you there m in front of our our class and um and I'm a Girl Watcher and those were two songs that we were singing right there and exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We tried to get We tried to get Kim Cunningham to walk by when you do the whistle farce, She wouldn't do that. I still remember these names. I know

the names are there. But so that was the first time we stood in front of the I stood in front of the crowd, the class, and they thought we sucked, So I won't say that. I felt like I had a gift at that point. Um. And then the second time that I remember standing in front of an actual

audience was at my brother's high school. Melvin he was he had a group at the time called the Soul Innovations and they were there was a good band, and uh, they were going to do this homecoming thing and right the Jackson five had just come out, so you had I Want You Back and Who's Loving You? And they wanted to do one of those songs, but nobody had

the voice, so we had to. So Melan brought myself and Kevin in the living room two you know, go for who could sing Mike's part, Michael's part, and so we had to sing Who's Loving You? And Cavn sing first, and he walked out room and I came and sang, and unbeknownst to me, I won. And I would not win with giving on today period because given voices, crazy super high, super high, crazy and um but um, I won, and so I got to go sing at the home

coming and I got to sing Who's Loving You? And this was like, I'm in sixth grade at this point, we sing my high school girl. High school girls were scared to death. But um but I I know. They used to play I want you back. When I walked up to the stage, they would play I want you back. And I remember just being so nervous and so scared that when I hear when I would hear that and

walking up there. And I walked up there and sung the song, and you know, people gave me love and and I can't believe that I actually did that because I was way too shy to everything. I could do anything like that and to this. For the longest time, every time I would hear I Want you Back, I get nervous again. Nervous. It's like, you know, just this thing. They would kick you off, like oh, and then your heart starts going. And every now and then, if it

hits me right, you could do the same thing. But that first time, I'm just getting on the stage. So did I feel special? I don't know that I felt special yet then neither um until a couple of years later, this kid I'm named Emmanuel came up to my house knocking on the door. I asked, my mom, just a kid that sounds just like Michael Jackson, but only better live here and live here in this house. Because he

was trying to start a band. And so the rumor was there was his kid that sung just like Michael Jackson, but only a little better, you know, and was out, and so he came to see if, you know, maybe I could join the group. At that point, my voice had changed, you know, and I couldn't sing like Michael anymore. And uh, I went an audition for them, and they laughed at me because I had and had the voice anymore.

But I could write songs. And I had a little song that I wrote, and I started singing this when I wrote, And then the dad came down upstairs and said, who's that singing? And he goes up, whoever that is, y'all need to y'all need to get him, because he better than all y'all. So then I got in the group. At that point, to the father, sometimes you ain't got it,

he got maybe you can manage you. So, but all throughout, when you sit there and ask the question when you feel like you have a gift, I don't know that when when your basic personality is being humble and not not not being about you, you don't ever think of it as a gift till till much later to where you where everybody recognizes what you've done and you and you look back at and you say, Okay, you know, I thank God that I had this gift. But I

wasn't walking around thinking that I had something. I just was doing what I love to do. Um, and it was and it came natural for me to do it, and I always wanted to be better. I didn't never felt like I was the best at everything. Uh. I always felt like I had to work harder. I didn't try to be you know, to to compete with other people. But I never felt like I was like the best

one in the room. Wow. So so you're going through high school and are you are you making records at this time that you you know, you can write, you know you can sing, you got the instrumentation. See that's a different time. That's like, you know, um, back then when I was going to you weren't really making records

at that point, and you weren't even doing demos. You had to get in the studio, and that was a real unreally, that wasn't reality to get in this to you know, you could you you could write songs and put them on a little tape recorder, you know, little cassette. And I had a lot of little ideas on cassettes, you know that I would do write songs. But yeah, I was writing songs throughout high schooling, you know, because I kept on falling in love and then write a song.

But the girl on you know about that all the time. I used to always fall in love in the strip club. That was where I fell in love. I wasn't falling in love though I was falling I mean, like, so T Payne wrote Your Life, he wrote My Life? Are you kidding me? I would fall in love? When does the professional call come? The professional professional call? Where somebody became somebody you know somewhere A and R somebody this point, you're still in Indian app I'm Indian, I'm they're in Indie.

But here's the thing. There were so many little things that happened that are kind of hard to believe that they happened. Even in that time period where you would meet somebody or like Um. I told this story once before, but when I was in eighth grade, UM, I met Michael, I met the Jackson five. But I made that happen, um, because they come to town and I saw them when I was in sixth grade. I saw them do that

going back to Indiana concerts and saw them. I was at that at that concert and blew my mind, and that's what I knew that that's what I wanted to do, because I could see these kids on stage doing music and it was crazy. I had a terrible seat. I was sitting in the back. I could only see their face with if they spend other than that, and I missed it off. I saw afros the whole time. But it blew me away that that they could do that, and so in my head I thought, one day I

want to meet them. And so a couple of years later, this thing popped up where they were coming to town again, and I was talking to myself, I gotta meet him, and so I saw it in the newspaper where they were coming to the State Fairgrounds and the promoter's name was Charles Williams. So I looked in the phone book up very Charles Williams that I could call. And I called Charles and I put on this voice like I was an adult. I used to have this. I don't

know if you knew this actor named Jimmy Stewart. I used to have a Jimmy Stewart. UM used to impersonate his voice, and so I used his voice as my adult voice and called, uh, called Charles and told him that, you know, my name was Mr Clayton. I'm a journalist teacher at Westland Junior High School. And uh, I heard that you have some checks and kids some kind of play like you don't even know who you took the

whole thing totally. They're coming to town and and uh, and I wanted to know if uh I thought it was I'm gonna have a journalist class and I want to have some kids, so my kids interview your kids. And he goes he said that's a great idea. Um, so, Mr Clayton, so how do I how do I reach you? And I said, well, no, I don't want you to do it that way. I said, I one of my students, Kenny Etmond's I want to give you his phone number. I want you to call him and and he will

do the interview. I want him to do it like he's a real reporter. And he said, okay, that sounds great. So you know, he took my number down. He hung up, and he called me about five minutes at my house. I picked up the phone because if my mom had got that, that would have been in trouble. So just from Lions and she just would have got me and so um I picked up the phone. He goes, uh, can you EV's place? Says this is He says, this

is Charles Williams. I said yes. He goes, so I talked to you, Yes, Charles, Charles, Charles, Charles doesn't bring a Charles. Yes, and he goes, So, I just talked to your teacher, Mr Clayton, I said, Mr Clayton. Yes, he goes, yeah, I just talked to me. He talked about you interviewing the Jackson Pie. Are you serious? Oh my god, are you really? He said, yes, this is good. This gonna happen. I'm gonna I'm gonna check with it, the security and check with everybody, see if we can

make it happen. I'm gonna call you back in about a week. I'll let you know whether it can happen. And UH. A week later he called me and said, you got an interview with the Jackson five. And so in eighth grade, I went down to uh the Hilton Hotel on Swealth floor and walked in and interviewed Michael Jackson and the brothers were all there. And I actually walked in there in eighth grade. Wow. I couldn't believe it. Scammers, one could see it. We don't we don't have baby

face if you don't do that, get it. Yeah. So I figured out how to get in there, and it was just to just to be in the in their space. And um, and I couldn't even believe I did it. Um, but I did it, and um it was it was just all part of the whole journey. Because the thing is what was special about Indianapolis. There was so much music around and there's so many bands. They were like a thousand bands, and so there was always someone to

play with, someone, some band that you could join. At even at a very young age in high school, junior high school, we had bands you know that doesn't exist today whatsoever at all, um, in any kind of even when they were doing you know, like the Voice Men

where people are doing groups, we had bands. Everybody was playing you know um yeah so um, and that was so even with that, in ninth grade, I had a band called The Elements and we auditioned for this concert that was coming in town that they were laying all the local bands figure out who could open up for this big concert that was coming in town. And that concert was Curtis Mayfield when he had super flyouts. And we're kids. So I'm in ninth grade and we opened

up for curs Mayfield. I played some originals, playing original songs, not original songs, but playing X. I think we played for once in my life Steve Wonder um. And so there were moments of things that would happened. We think, Okay, this is it. We're gonna make it, you know, and everybody in music business we've all experienced that. Yeah, So there were there were so many moments and so and we so bad wanted to make it. I remember we used to Um, We'd be walking down the street and

say they'd be like a stop side. So if everybody runs goes, if this car gets if this, if you don't, if you don't hit that stop side before this car hits, you ain't gonna never make it. So we run with our life, you know, to get there, so we make it. But what it making it mean? Making it at that point meant that you that your record was on the radio and that people knew that you you know, that

you were on it. It didn't mean buying a big counsel or getting a car or anything else like that, because we didn't know that you really made money at it. We just wanted to be on the radio and recognized for your organized and that was that was making it. Um. Didn't know anything else about it other than just wanting to be no, have a herd out and and be

on radio, be on the radio, on radio. So it was a different time there, you know, UM, music didn't necessarily mean money, and that was probably probably something that we should have known would have helped later it always but but there's something kind of nice about the the innocence of it at that point that it wasn't about anything but the music. UM. And where that's become a

different thing today, I think, completely different. I literally have had to have the conversation with my son about they're not that rich because you know, it's it's this is it's part of that the promotion. I'm like deuce. They're showing you this so that they that you can help them eventually get that if you can get a whole bunch of your friends to believe that this guy has a watch on that's worth three hundred and seventy five tho hollars and it's only three of them made in

the world, but he has one. Yeah out making Georgia this new rap kid, right, you know what I mean? But you know I get it, and that's part of the promotion. And obviously those things didn't exist at that point. And like you said, that making it was turning that radio down and hearing your song. So does the Elements does that lead to the deal. There's so many little groups. I was in. The first group was five, second was UM,

Jim and I eight. Jim and I eight. We performed one UM a local TV show called Clover Power, which David Letterman was the host. He was the guest host. That was like in eighth grade. UM. From there, UH, Jim and I ate two LC so unlimited. Then there was the Elements, and then it was Tarnish Silver and then I joined UM Tarnish Silver Turn Silver. That was the high school band. We played all the all the gigs in high school, so we went did colleges as well. Um yeah, I didn't want to be silid go no

tarnish Silver, that's gonna kill. What about this we're walking on buffed buff It's gonna be a problem. Thank you for that. Gotta come from somewhere. Yeah, um no. But Turn we we did well. We you know, I from like my high school years, from like through um eleventh g you know, to Turn through my senior year. We

played all the gigs there. And the cool thing about when you're playing in those bands, that's the whole things that it's, um, it's preparing you for later, preparing you for his shows and you know, um and the things that you things that you think you know, like when we were when we were in Turning Silver, we played our own original songs, we played stuff on the radio, but it was mostly we are the school that was mostly white, so it was probably tempercent black people and

mostly white. So a lot of the shows that we as you go to North Central High School because my brothers went to Arlington. Yeah we lived out there for a high second. Yeah yeah, North Central was that street at that time, and uh so most of the gigs we would playing when we go to colleges. We were playing like our original songs and and playing maybe the b GS and you know, um the blackest thing we would play with the Earth Went Fire and um. I remember the first time we actually played for um it

wasn't Arlington, but I'm forget something like Arlington. Uh check, I'm getting the name right now. But we played for their homecoming All Black UH school, and we went out there and start playing our stuff because we always you know, we would always be great people. They'd be dancing right right right, always doing the double class different way different, And so we got out there started playing and they

were just looking at us like that. I remember I had one friend from Pambrewer, she was from North Central. She was up there looking like and she was like, oh, that's had embarrassment. It was like I could see that share looking like I'm so sorry. Yeah. I asked y'all to do this because we were just they just did

not care. Because as we stopped playing in the then the uh they put on record and then we go back up and and then so I remember me and Daryl and our conversation it was like we ain't black enough. We just you know, we don't know nothing. This is terrible and and they and we knew the songs, but we didn't play any of those songs. Uh, so we're like, we knew we had to start changing the game because

we thought we was on killing with earth Fire. We played Devotion earth Wing Fire wasn't black enough yet, so killing with Devotion it wasn't. They wasn't inis different. That's crazy. You have to be like you have to be funk yeah different. Yeah, I mean you know that because you've been through there. But I'm just saying it's black. It's black not yet, not yet. They hadn't until Reasons came from birth. Fire didn't really kick in, you know, till

Reasons happen. But other than that, it was like but not like it wasn't enough. Wasn't enough for us that night, and uh but we failed. We learned from it. And then um, when you said Darryl Simmons, yeah, because that's what I'm absolutely know who that is. You just said the first name, so something like, wait, you're in a

high school band. Yeah yeah, okay, okay, so me and Darryl Simpson and then um, in Turning Silver, we got this opportunity to go to this club called the in Crowd, and we opened up for this group called man Child and Man Child was like the funkiest group ever and they were they look like giants and they and they were also um very talented where they played Return to Forever and they and they could play they could play jazz, they could play funk, they could play everything. They could

play Teddy Pendergras. It was like, let me, what's the maybe, No, that was oh, Jess, I think so it was like und nothing. Yeah, So they was they was killing and and so once again we went in there thinking that we was gonna like kill it because we learned a couple more earth win Fire songs um and they were very kind to us. That audience was very kind to us. And like I said, okay, we thought we won until

Man Shot came out. There was smoke and they came out uh doing uh Checkerkan song I'm a I'm a woman, but they call I'm a man Shot. Yeah, they was already doing the remixed ye with the name and yeah, I'm a man Shot and I'm a motherfucker. That's what they were and that's what that's what followed up they came after us and just killed us, and exactly that is what it felt like. And but it was a learning experience, and it was like, Okay, I gotta I

gotta start learning some other stuff. I gotta, you know, because I, you know, I would play my coustal guitar and played pretty songs and and that's kind of like that was my whole thing. And then from watching that, I said, I need to learn how to, you know, play some funk. I need to learn how to do do those other things. And because I loved it when I heard it, but I just had never heard it

in that way. And so, um, when I finished high school, just before I graduated, I got a call to join Manschoud really so that funk group that I that blew me away. I actually joined that band right out of high school. And that was my learning ground for so many things, um, in terms of musically, um, being able to learn to so many different genres. So I would preparing me for today and for the rest of you know, the rest of my life in music, all those things.

And then out of Man Child Man shot and lasted for a while. Then I ended up leaving Manshot and I joined this group called the Crowd Pleaser just and the Crowd Pleas was strictly a Top forty band playing out of Michigan most of the time, and we played all these places in Michigan just playing Top forty, which

was like the best. That was the best education I could get because when every when you're playing these Top forty songs nightly, you're learning how songs are supposed to feel, and you're you're learning watching the crowd what they react to and when you hit hit the right kind of hook, the versus everything that she is helping your songwriting and

songwriting completely. I'm able to learned so much more from that thing how songs actually work, you know, you know where you're actually applying them in front of people to see it. So that was like the best learning ground and from there that was right after that is when I ultimately joined the deal because I had written this song uh slow Jam and slow Jam Um Midnight Start. I kind of had met Midnight Ster before Midnight Star

wanted to record the song slow Jam. So when I went down to kind of help them demo the song, that's when I ran into l a read for the second time, and uh l a um we met at that point, and that's when they decided that, you know, I should maybe kind of help out with the help out make some demos for the deal. Play another slow jam is your first placement? Yes, wow, oh man, that's lost Champagne West this time, make it sweet, that's out of control. That's amazing that you kick all this off

with a smash. How does that work for you like at that time, because obviously, like you said earlier, you didn't understand the business share. You weren't fully doing it for that yet when you write a record like that, when you write a record like that, you don't you

still don't the weather. It's a smash and it wasn't necessarily single and it was it was something that was that midnight start did and and mind you so at this point twenty something, and I've been in been in it for a while at this point, you know, was in another group. Man. We had a regional record out and it did okay, especially for you with the with the song and so where we thought we were gonna make it and it was gonna happen, but it didn't.

So you have all these points where you think it's gonna happen in the bam and and and it's a road. It's a rocky road the whole way. It's never just straight up. Um. So when when they ultimately did the song, you didn't know what's gonna happen with it. And I was just a writer, one of the writers on the song goes by the time my hand didn't, then the

other people wrote on it. You know how that story goes, and so um the only thing I can remember about Slow Jam is hearing from Solo Records that, um, I was gonna get a check it and they called me and told me that I was going to like get a check for five grands. I said, what you actually get paid for this stuff, you know? And I was like so excited. And I went out and got me a Shield of Toast card and got me an American Express card, and you just start ordering credit card. I

got some credit cards. I've never heard what do you do with your first check? I got ten credit cards with the check I got. I got the credit cards. But the problem is I spent on the credit cards before that check ever came, because they said that check was coming, and they check that check didn't come for about eight months. Take a minute, mom, They told me it was coming in and took eight months before I got it. Should have got to me sooner than but

I was. But it sound of Los Angeles Records. I was already you know, so my creator was already messed

up at the early age um, you know. And but I saw that there was there was that you could make, you know, some money, and that was a great check at first, you know, thinking that was amazing, and and all those things that happened before you know, it's it's a long journey that that gets you there, and all the other songwriting and all the playing in the bands and all that stuff is what helps make the difference.

It makes a difference in terms of even to this day for when I do a show, you know, everything I can pull on to pull from all those things to you know, figure out from in front of a crowd that's kind of funny. Then I know how to work it to when a mover call that audible, you

gotta work you gotta call the audible. I've been in front of a crowd where you know, there's some nice looking young ladies in the front, and I was doing what was supposed to be my hit record at the time when I was on a hit, but I thought it was gonna be hit. And they looked at each other and said whack. And it was that tape at the time can't audible on the Dad and I still had a verse, two hooks and a bridge, and the hook should kicked over the speaker. He should have kicked

over with his speaker. Four valley state of coming back to redeem myself. I gotta come back to you. But you know, a growing pain of learning how to figure out how to make those audibles depending on what kind of crowd you're I'm a church kid, so I'm coming from you know, you know what all church and what I'm saying, I know what to do in that space, but now thrust it into this R and B space on a Dirty South show. Yeah I didn't win that one, he was, Yeah, I didn't win that. Yeah, you figured

out how to win it. Oh you damn right? Yeah, two girls, I need your front row when I come to somebody, mama alone, man, come on out. I wanted to. I want to see you. I got audibles like a motherfucker. So you right, mhm, slow jam And then is the next Bachelor of Records? Is that sweet? November and two occasions and yeah shoot him Up movies like those came a little bit later. But Sweet November was, um, it

ended up being part of the Deal second album. But I actually had written that, Um, I've written that almost right out of high school. Um, and before I even got there. So that song was sitting around for a

while before I actually did that. And so that's after a while before I got to the Deal, sitting around on the cassette cassette and you know, I just remember something I didn't I never recorded other than just you know, just playing the piano and just kinda during that week because I hadn't for some no, I think I did ultimately record that on my fortress because I got really

good on the Ford track. And that's kind of like what also got me the job with the Deal, because I figured out how to do really good backgrounds on the four track by yourself and um from bouncing and everything. And so Jeff Cooper from Midnight Start he asked me to come and helped the Deal to the to the demos. And I actually had talked to l A before I got down there because there was a guy named Hollywood. He was in the crowd pleases and Hollywood was good

keyboard player. And Hollywood was talking to l A on the phone one day and uh um. I had met l A at the Soda Club a couple of years ago, maybe a year or so before that, And this was before I was in the Cry of Pleasers. And when I met them, they had already done the switch over where they were already getting like turning like the time and stuff. And so they had and prince. They had like leggings and makeup and and they was like they was all the way in and I was like, wow, Nick,

and they were a little freer than make it. But but but it was like and this was in the zodiac, and I was like, dang, they bowled, you know, but they had all the girls was there and they was like they was with them. So I was like, that's pretty cool. And then I met l A then, And when l A met me, I was probably a member's only jacket. So you know, I had no vibe whatsoever I was from Man. You know, I wasn't vibeing anymore.

So I met them and he said hey, and uh but he had no not knowing me being in man shot. At least he had saw me playing with man Shot, so he knew I had some talent. But when I saw them, I said, it's a great group. And then when I was in Michigan much later with Hollywood, Hollywood goes up. He's on the phone with him and he says, listen to this because l A's playing in the music and it was some song called in it up Um and it was ko is Ko playing a lick Doom

Doom Do Doom Doom Doom dig. I still remember the lick and I was like, oh my god when the singing on the air, but the track was just like just so hard and so like it was like the Time and French mixed together. And I was like, oh shit, I would I'd love to be a part of that because I'm like in a group the crowd pleasers, and

they were cool, but they were all older guys. I mean even at that time, they was sixty something years old, and I was, you know, so it wasn't ever gonna be anything else but the top forty bands and me and so I asked Hollywood said, asked them if they need a guitar player, if they need to need somebody else, you know, to play with them, and Hollywood said he would ask. So I wasn't sure Hollywood asked, because I

never heard anything. Then I finally asked, Hollywood said, so did you ever ask l A if I could join the band? And he said yeah. I talked to him about that and he said, you can't join the band. And I said why. He said, because you're not breed enough. And so being breed enough was you know, having the look, having having the whole Prince looking the whole time. It was breed because Prince had a song called the New Breed, So um, it was. It was all about being breed enough.

But they didn't know I had already gonne breathe. I breed it myself up while I was in the crowd and I was totally breathed. I might have been more breathed than them because I think I had a coat, had I had a you know coat, and everything. The hair was dripping, and you know it was it wasn't Jerry curl because Jerry curls go back. Um, it was California curls. Thank you California. The differences with the Jerry curl they dry up really quickly and your hair goes bad.

California girl, you don't have to put as much so it doesn't look greasy. He was much smoother that That's the whole idea about California Girl. Thank you. That is the difference in a whole another thing, that whole other thing. That's a whole another thing. The the California Girl did not require as much liquids. So that's the bottom line. So it looked natural, looked like you was born there. We was trying were It should be good for you to know that we was all trying to look like you.

I'm breathe, I put my rag on face. I'm gonna get these j ways. I promise you that I'm gonna get them. So did he? So he did he? Ever? Did he really say that to him? Yeah? He said so really did? It was true? I wasn't I wasn't pretty enough. And I understood because the last time he saw me, I was in the Member's only Jackie, So it was fair. But wile Hollywood was saying that, but I'm breathe now and uh, but he didn't know that.

And so when I went down to Cincinnati, I was inside the booth singing slow jam, putting the demo down. So l A come there because Midnight Star was producing their their demos to try to get them a record there. And so I was in the booths singing. Then l A walked in and he goes, so, who is that in the booth? He said, this Kenny Evos? Is that Kenny Evans? Really he sounds good? And then I walked out and I was so brief. Well he's breathed now.

And so that's when Jeff Cooper asked if I would stay because the four tracks I would do, And he said, can you just come down and help put the demos together? And Uh, that's where songs like just My Luck and um, crazy about You. I had already written those songs before you even gotten the group. Before I had even got those songs were already written um um before at least the tracks were no. Actually like crazy Bouts I was

written and then I got down there. Then D helped me finish writing them, and that's how I played songs on the deal. So initially I placed the songs. I wasn't in the group when they went to get their deal. Um here in l A. I wasn't in the group. I had gone back to Michigan. I was back in the crowd pleasers and uh, then I got in a call. I was there for about a month or so and I got in a call from l A and then I called to say, hey, just once you know that, you know, we got a record deal. We end up

getting a record here. And I was like, good for y'all. I'm so happy for you. That's amazing. Um and uh and you know, at least I got a couple of songs placed in there, you know. And I was kind of like, you know, happy, and then he said, also one other thing. Talked to the guys and they want to know if you want to, we'd like you to join the group. And it's it's saved my life at that point, and that's why that's how I joined the deal. Were you singing on the demos? The uh? No? I

I was not. Um. I might have the backgrounds, but I wasn't there to be a singer. And I was asked to join to be guitar and man help write songs, but I was there to be a musician. Carol was the least singer not a singer. Uh. Um. The least singer was was d and Carlos Carlocolos, d and Carlos, and that's how it was supposed to be. And I didn't sing to the second album, and that almost didn't

happen because we ultimately we're supposed to um. Our second album was supposed to be produced by Reggie Callaway, but some things went wrong with their management, and you know, so our management and which was Pablo Davis at the time, he was managing Midnight Star and they had some problems and we got caught up in the middle of it, and so Reggie uh decided that he was not going to produce our second album, and so we were like,

what are we gonna do? Then did Griffy called and said you and l A should produce it, you know, so we were like, I don't know, but we're kind of scared because hadn't done it before, and this time we were in like real studios, you know, going there to do it. But I always written these songs, and that's when I had Sweet November that I dimm well and so I had actually done Sweet November by I

sent Sweet November in for the Whispers. I was hoping that the Whispers would do that song, and Dick Griffy heard the demo and he goes, why aren't the deal doing this song? Why don't y'all do this song? And uh, it goes because we don't have anybody that can sing it, and he goes, well, who's singing this? He said, well, Kenny singing And he said, well why why how come he's not singing? He said, because he's not one of the singers in the band. He said, well, that doesn't

make sense, so why ain't he singing it? Because that's that's not it. I'll have to talk to the guys and see whether that's okay. So he said, we need to talk to the guys. So, um, we were in Columbus, Ohio, and he had a meeting with the guys about it whether I should sing, and they voted me not to sing. And mind you, I didn't have a problem with it because I wasn't trying to sing. I didn't. That was not my thing. I was. He was good with just

being playing guitar and writing songs. That was that was fine me. Um, but Dick took a position, well, you know, if he don't sing, then you don't have a record deal. So um, so Dick forced it and forced it so that I hope to me end up being having a chance to sing on the album. Some people see the future. Is that crazy? And he also pushed the fact for me to be an artist in the first place. He's the one that suggested that I do a solo album.

It wasn't me. I wouldn't. This was not something that I was ever trying to go out to be, you know, as a solo artist. It just kind of all happened with the journey. It wasn't something that I was like, one day, I want to be that guy. You know. Everything was always for me, always about the song. If I could place the song, if I had to sing it, whatever, then that's fine. But I just wanted the songs to come out. So did Robert Townsend right the duck character

after you? Then? Was it just about the music? Was up? He's a crumpled up paper mess up music. Yeah, So it was that was always my thing. And I might maybe it was security blanket so I wouldn't have to be up in front of everybody and stuff, you know. Wressure it was. It was easy, and so how I justified doing the album myself? I said, well, this is just I'm a songwriter first. Any if it don't work, so what I'm doing everything else, you know, so I

could always I feel like I didn't fail, you know. So, so is that the introduction to you as a solo artist, or within that same time frame you in l A figuring out how to be partners into what becomes one of the greatest labels ever. The beginning of that was it was a little bit of that, but the whole label idea, yeah. And I can't say whether l A always had it, that dream of owning a label, of

being a Berry Gordy. I don't know that for sure, but I know that what gave him the confidence was that when we were doing this early stuff and placing these songs on we start with start with the Whispers, and then we went to Karen White, and then we had he had Pebbles, and we had Um the Boys. So you guys aren't Lafacia. So all these things that that's what gave us, gave us the confidence. And I know what's that's what put the idea and LA said, if we can do all this here, why can't we

do this ourselves? You know, because we had had such success with Bobby Brown and with Johnny gil and with Pebbles, and with um all these artists that beforehand that we're having success the MacMan, everything kind of happened before, but no true ownership in it. No ownership, just just you know as a as a producer or a songwriter, you know. So it was it was that and I think for l A not necessary being the song writer. He was like, let me figure this out, you know, we should have

more ownership. And and so l A was definitely an entrepreneur in that way, trying to figure out how do we make this so this is this is ours, you know, And that hence came the moved to Atlanta, you know, to try to search for that, try to make at We had looked at a couple of points. We looked at Uh, we looked at New York, thought about New York, We thought about Houston. UM, we were in l A at the time. And the whole idea was that we didn't want to be um little fish in a big

you know, in the sea. We wanted to be a big fish in a little pond. And that's it. That's what Atlanta represented. And also UM, when we looked at what the affordability that we get nice homes for far less and too, um, you know to start down there and try to figure it out down there. Um and

we just we just kind of went for it. So just to touch on that backtrack just a little bit, did you realize that you guys were the go to guys for big records, life changing records before or just like it was going on, is it's happening, like what record? So here the landscape was this Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis were in control, you know, cooking, you know. So we when we first started producing, we were trying to be Jimmy and Terry. We imagine we were Jimmy and Terry.

Remember the first time we got on a flight to come out to l a um To for a producing thing, it was for carry Lucas, which was Dick Griffy's wife. It didn't matter that it was her, is the fact that we was on a plane going to go produce. So we Jimmy and Terry now so yeah, so flying coach, it didn't matter. It was like you know, we were rolling, we jet set us um and it was the feeling of producing and doing something other than just yourself with

doing someone else. So our whole that whole movement at that point it was something that we didn't know that we could really do. We were just kind of in it. Everything was was um. There's a learning curve to everything that you do, UM, and you get, you get, you get better as it goes. Initially, when we came out to l A, which was in five, you know, to think about eighty five, wasn't until seven that anything started happening. So it was a couple of years here trying to

play songs, trying to be stuff done, and nothing was happening. UM. I remember sitting um at Warner Brothers, saying for an hour waiting for Benny Medina so that he would just listen to one of the you know, some of my tracks, and and then the guy coming out, he's not gonna be able to see you today, after you waited, After I waited an hour, and then I left and night

that I came back another day. I think I did that three times and finally he came to listen, and he listened and he said, no, I don't hear anything, and so walked away. So there was so many more times of placing music that you you know that you that people weren't weren't taken and some of those things were things that ultimately got placed later. Um. They might not have been all the way ready yet could have been tracks that were almost there. Are songs that were

almost there but not all the way there. You you tweak them when you get in the studio. Um. And that's all stuff that you learned in the process. But UM, that's why I never had an ego about somebody that if they turned the song down, you know, then then you'd be mad at him, like, all right, you ain't gonna get none of my songs. It wasn't that because I always felt like, well, probably they probably could have

been better. We probably could have you know, for some reason, they didn't hit you because we didn't do something right about it. So um. And you feel that when you're sitting inside of the the room and you're listening to people. When you watch people listen to something, you hear it a lot differently than when you're listening to yourself. So um. And that's you gotta watch the body language. You gotta

watch everything. So that's how you produce. Many times as you play for other people and see how they're reacting. If they're not giving you the right reaction, Okay, that even if they're saying yeah, I like that, Nah, your body wasn't saying you like so I gotta way because you can't control yourself when it's when it's that and

you hear it, you can't control yourself. So you're still going through this after writing ultimately and performing a smash like two occasions, you're still happen to go through the same process even with two occasions. Even even once you head it out, you still understand that it doesn't matter how big you are, songs still have to make people, have to move people because they can think that you're just giving them a crap song. And that's the last thing I would ever want to do is give somebody

something that they're not happy with. I don't want to do it. Then I'd rather not I'd rather not work. And that's in that case, when you're giving away, giving somebody something that they don't like, it's then that's not a fun process. And sometimes you might give someone something that they might not like, but well you should like this one. You know, this one, this one is actually good, and especially if you know the people that are saying it.

And there's been a couple of times there were things like that. Not a lot, but a couple of times. Yeah. Um, can I skipped the Tender Lover? Is that? Is? Am I moving too fast? If I skipped a Tender Lover, the Tender Lover album can for sure go straight to it. Um. Please, I'm a church kid church and you know I'm in high school and and the women folk are are taking a liking to me. Um because I can sing. Yes, Um, I'm not sure if my outfits were really lining up. Um,

I wasn't breed. I wasn't breed. Probably worked out for you that um. And as a church kid, girls would say sing something, and I would sing church songs because that's all I knew. Tender Lover album drops. Yeah, and now this church kid has songs to sing. So what do you sing? I'm singing Sunshine, I'm singing where would You Go? I'm singing all of it. And at this time now my mom has brought me this synthesizer, this p v D p M four, and so I'm trying to emulate all of the tracks and the feeling. I

only have eight tracks, eight music tracks. I'm trying to emulate the feeling of what I hear of the Tender Lover album. That's my start in trying to figure out how to produce and write good songs. So that was like my formula. What do you feel about? What did you feel about when the Tender Lover album dropped? Where were you the Tender Lover album was? I did an

album before that, I thing. It was just called Lovers, and it was all over the place, trying to figure out who I could be as an artist because I didn't because I didn't believe I was an artist. So I did the song called I Love You Babe, and then there was a song called if We Try, and there was a bunch of things. That's even a song called take Your Time that probably should have been for like a new edition, a very young new edition. It was everywhere and hadn't figured out who baby Face is,

who baby Face should be. And then on the Tender Level album, somewhere I started to get the sense of, okay it was, it was a thing of after two occasions, it was starting to figure out, Okay, so this is who they think baby faces um and so kind of cool, suave and romantic and and so these are the kind of things that I can do and and probably make a becoming an artist in that way. But initially some

of those songs like Tender Lover. Initially when I wrote it, Dick Griffy tried to give it to um, um Monel Richie m hmm, and Linel Linel turns it down. Um, but I wrote it for Linel Richie and I got a lot of turned downs like that. So um, that's a very fun fact. And um, so end up doing it anyway, and then it's no crime. I was figuring out how could I do How could I do a tempo,

you know? And so that was like I was trying to figure out that thing because I couldn't do I couldn't do any funk up temples, not with my voice. I had to figure out something. And um, and Crime was the one that you know that Okay, it was different, you know, on a different program that drum track, on the drum track that it would have been l A.

I would do. I would write every thing first, I'd have the drum tracks down and stuff like could then l A would come down and come and then add up the rest of the percussion stuff and make that happen. And Jill Simmons was writing with you, Darryl Simmons what he was writing, not on everything, but some things that I would pull him in on. Um. Most in most cases, I was like I was the songwriter. I started out

and then I would pull somebody in, you know. Um, I don't know if it's a question that I needed help, but just it's just you know, you wanna write this with me. Um. That's kind of how I get on all the songs and Tank it's just like get finished here, glad you guys, buddy, right, thank you for that. So but so for the most part, I would just kind of the songs will kind of be there, and then

I kind of finish it out. And usually if it was co writing, it would be Darrel that would come in help with whether it's a melody or a lyric called idea, and that would be there. On and l A was strictly really about the production music side, production and with the drums, and and I'll give it like credit in terms of for the whole the production side, because by the time him and John Gass finished mixing it, they take it to another level. So John Gass was a bad bad boy, and so that was as much

as the sound, no question. Um. And so but I think that ultimately when when I think of Tender Lover and I think about that, that whole album, I mean certain songs that happened, you know, from whip Appeal to to Sunshine to where will You Go? Um to give it a chance. The album is perfection to me, they don't. That album is absolute a couple of things, and I have a question, I'd have to not me, we'd have to go through it. But um, but I mean my kind of girl. Um, Yeah, they were good. There are

things that felt good. I was at it. I was at a space where I was it was I was trying to just make this whole feeling of love on a whole the whole whole album just feel like love, you know, from a happy experience to sad to wherever and um, and those songs were. It wasn't from personal experience or anything. It was just me just kind of get into that whole love zone, you know. And from Whipper Phil, Whipperhill being really just the idea coming coach

PEPs mentioned Whipperphil one day. I said, oh, that's a good title, and I went and wrote it. And because she said it, I gave her a percentage. Winding about that did they gotta start. I gotta start just throwing words out it at you more airport Feakase. Here's a question, right, just real quick, whipper Peel comes out. Um, I'm not sure how sexy you were before then, but when Whooper Pip comes out, you're extremely sexy. Okay, how do you

handle that? Here's the thing? I missed that whole section? Um, what do you mean? See? See I was I was around people that were blowing up, like crazy Bobby Brown. This is on the same time period, So I'm watching Bobby Who where Bobby? We do this record of Bobby and I watched Bobby who was you know what? What? May be interested in Bobby in the first place because he was crazy and I heard Bobby on the Uh.

We had met with Little Silas and something you should do yes, no question, and we we said, he said you can do uh, you can do the um Bobby Brown and uh. And then Cheryl Dickerson, she said, you should go meet Pebbles and you should meet um and looking through the boys and but check out Bobby too. And we were unsure about Bobby because he had that song called girlfriend. Yeah did you right? Now? He started with a spot and so wasn't. I didn't love that song.

But I remember riding the car and listening to the radio. Driving the car, listen to the radio, and then Bobby goes, he's he's on their live and he's he's doing girlfriend, and he goes for the note that he wouldn't go and he didn't get it, and then he goes, I didn't want to saying that song anyway on the radio. I said, whoa, I love it. I don't want to say that song in the first place. And so it was amazing and I thought, yeah, we need to work

with him because his energy. I felt that. I felt that energy and so and so from these songs from Don't Be Cruel to Every Little Step to Rock with You and and um and roni um those songs. You know, they found a home with him, and we watched him go from here. Oh unbelievable. It was like his performing hit him on stage. Nobody could touch him. Nobody to this day, I don't know that anybody still had that energy. They might be better dancers, that may be all those things.

But Bobby Brown in his prime, when he's honest, he was untouchable and so so to be around that and also to be around other stars that were clearly bigger. I felt like I was okay. You know, I didn't feel like I didn't ever have that moment where I felt like that. There were moments where it started. I do remember doing whip a Pill we did. I did a couple of dates with with Pebs because I did a do it with her, and then I do whipper

Pill right after. And I have this actually on video uh at the time doing some butd fest And so sometime in nine doing whipper Pill with this crowd, and I looked at that like, damn, I messed up. I should have kept going or something, because it was it was huge. It was like and and I had an experience it before, except you know, the only time I've seen that like it was when when we were out with the barge and the bars was killing us nightly.

You know, with Luther, we just died every night. You know, it was death. It was I mean, we only time we at at that time was body talking that and that was good, but you know, we do body talk. And then as soon as we finished, then you know, next s up is the bars place be rumbling, and and then we just had to put our heads down in warfack, you know, and and we had never experienced that.

And the first time we experienced that was when UM, I know, we're running out of time, but I just have to tell that the creation, this is what I believe with the creation of baby Face, where it happened. Um, we were doing we were on tour. Uh this time, I forget who we were with, but um, at this point we had two occasions out and we were doing body talk and we were we were doing the tour

and everything was going okay. And then um, we played Indianapolis and my wisdom teeth started acting up and I went to they were like really hurting, and so I went to the Dennis and then it says, oh, they looked like impacted, so we're gonna have to take them out. So they took out two and they said we might as well take them all take them out. So I ended up getting four Wisdom to Youth taken out, and I was like, so the next night we had a show.

He showed two nights and they asked me to performer. There's no way I can perform, So I didn't perform, and my brother Melvin took my place that night. Um, and they did a show. And then so the next show that we had that I could do was in New Orleans and at the what's the big building Superdome, super Dome. Everybody's there and so and it's a big show and I'm still messed up. I can't even when

I walk it hurts, you know. And so but we decided, you know, we can't go to the Superdome and you can't not you need to be up there to do two occasions. So everybody they did the whole show, and then when they got to the end, before they did two occasions, they said, look, guys, you know, um my brother baby Face, he's been sick and he's not feeling well at all, but he didn't want to disappoint you guys. So he's gonna come out here and try its best to perform for you anyway. And they give me, give

me a little bit of love. And I started. I put on this white suit and I walk across the stage and I'm actually in pain at this point, walking across the slates ship was hurting bad. I'm like barely open my mouth. So I go and I sit at the piano and I go Boom doom, doom, doom, the place goes crazy. I'm feeling like Elder Barge for the first time. It's like, I'm like, what the and so? And then because every time I close the eyes, I think they go and the bed, everybody in the bed

is that point. They were like what and we do the song the place loses it and um, so the rest of the tour I was sick. Um that was the I wasn't but I was sick the rest of the and then everybody's like, now he needs to do the whole show? Was it now? I got it was a moment and it kept on being a moment, and but it was. It was what finally, Um, it's it's shed a light put a light on baby Face in a different way. Um that made it look like, okay,

there's a career here. People actually people actually like you, you know, and they like what you do and they like what you bring to the table. So it became, um, it became a moment that helped me figure out how to do to the lover, help me figure out how to um craft that for the artist baby Face, that the person that didn't really want to be an artist, but a little by little was figuring out how to be because of the kind of songs that I could do and songs that came natural for me to do.

The biggest thing is being an artist. You got you want to do something that feels organic, and when you're doing something that's not, they figure it out and it's not gonna last long. So if you can do something that's really close to you and it comes from you then and they love it, then you have a chance of having a career and people will follow you. But the moment they why would you feel fake, then that's

the moment they'll they'll probably dismiss you. Well, thank you for being an artist, man, Thank you for being an artist. Thank that Dennis for putting out your wisdom to stars born moments. Star is born like this is because if that doesn't happen, like you said, you may never walk into that and then I have a confidence to do it. Yeah, you never know. I just love the fact that you also spoke about the journey and about not being an overnight success because a lot of the new artists don't

understand what it takes to where you are. Songwriters, producers, artists like you've lived at all, executives I'm sure you know what I mean. You have you have your bumps in the rotors and all of those things. It's, um, it does happen fast for some and and and it is sometimes that's a blessing, but most of the time not because they don't they don't realize that this isn't forever. You know, um, it can come and it can go.

And UM, my blessing has been is that I didn't have depend depend on just myself as an artist, but my artistry is through um writing music for other people where they could have my artists lived, my my art lived through them. So when people are singing, when I

hear can we talking? Thank you for that? By the way, that was that was amazing and and um it you know it's shined the light on songs that can you know that I had no idea that it had touched people that way, you know, And that was that was the best gift you could ever give me, was showing showing me that people loved something that I did like

that that much. I had no idea. And so when you when you're sitting and watching you know, schools, and everybody's singing that sing that lyric and and and that melody. You know, when I wrote that, I didn't think of it as being that incredible. I thought it was good, this is this is nice, just feels good. But not I don't think you know when you write one of those.

I don't either. Yeah, I agree, I haven't written, but I've written, but that for sure, and a bunch of others which we could really and literally talk about for the next five days. Um have just lasted and will last forever stand in real test of time, real music, real feeling, real lyrics, um, real vocals, real musicianship, like the chords, like y'all y'all wouldn't you weren't staying safe? Some real stuff happening that we would use in church too,

We would Still, I didn't. I didn't know that. I mean, I went to church, but I wasn't a church boy, so to say. And so you're proba like the first guy that sits on this side of the room with me, because everybody else can bring on here full church. Well tank, and I'd be like, yeah, so what's your do to church? No, I'm right on your side. Watch it a little bit. And I watched and listen to the choir, and then well, then I go to the car and listen to you know,

listen to the radio. Well, but a go ahead. But I think just in general, I always played the chords I can figure out, and like, I'm not the kind of uh keyboard player where I can sit down and just start playing. I have to remind myself and go through it again. And because I'm it's pretty simple, I can usually figure it out once I start playing. Then the then the muscle memory comes back. But it's not like I'm not really a keyboard player. I'm more of

a guitar player than a keyboard player. So everything that I that I figured out it was it was just kind of like I'm a keyboard player. No, I'm not. I just playing all of that stuff you produced. No, it was no because because if I was a real keyboard player, I could sit down there and play it for you right now. I'd have to sit there and figure it out again and go again. Because I wrote, I was I was a writer, so I was writing

for that moment to do it. And and even even at the time, I could learn it right there and then I'd forget it exactly of what I would do. But at the same time, what's interesting is that there are certain things like with roni Um, the way that is played. Real keyboard players could not I didn't have the feel that that that was for this non keyboard player because you would either do too much or not enough. It's yeah, exactly, okay if you ever learned anything, because yeah,

I'm learning. I'm still learning that because your your and and we're gonna get these other things real, real fast. Your keyboard playing was about voicings. It wasn't about being the best keyboard player in terms of putting ten fingers on the keyboard. It was about the voicings that you would choose, Like your voicings were a highlight for me before the music even started. Dude, do like what that's that's monstrous for you to say you're not already player.

I'm already yeah, and we're gonna play it in church right before offre um. Your your history is fast, bro um, your success is I mean, it's it's endless. With all of that, we have a couple of questions and we're not gonna take up too much of your time, Mr Face, Mr baby face, but have questions for you. First question being top five R and B artists male or female anytime my top five top five it's very hard, um, because I'm it's at different periods when I was growing up.

Here's the thing when you're when you're a songwriter, you have people you choose people based off because they're songwriters, and some people just from the voices. If we're talking about voices alone. It's so hard because I know, because I know so much about music everywhere, So like, um, what things that blew me people that blew me away? James Brown blew me away because because he could actually sing to and and um. And then of course Stevie wondered,

that goes without saying Donny Hathaway. Um, Aretha Franklin, Uh, clearly the best, Clearly Aretha Franklin, clearly the best of all time. UM. I was able to be in room with her and work with her and and see her genius and and hear her genius and to be there and um, even when she was you know, before she left us, you know it was I was. I had for farm with her, actually did a concert with her

in Oakland. I I opened up for Aretha Franklin, and I was like, WHOA, I never saw that coming in And I opened up for her and she knew me. She like, you know, face, come on back here, I want to talk to you. And I'm like, Rita Franklin has called me in her dress and men to talk to her. Just and what you want to talk to me? She said, I saw you upon that face, I saw you doing whip a pill you had you had that

crowd going all right, all right? And I'm like, she just said, all right, all right in my head, you know. And then she's and and and then she talks to me face coming, I'm gonna talk to you about something. I said, So what's up? She goes, So, I'm dating this guy. Come on, and I want to I'm gonna tell you the story about him because I want to know if you think he's serious or not. So she was. She was giving me this whole story what he does and everything he asked me. You know, so, what do

you think is this? Is he? Is he for real? And then I said, I don't think he's for real. I'm gonna let you know. I'm gonna let you know. Then I talked to her another time. You know, he was right, he wasn't serious, but she was already whatever eight or you know, she was she was still living and at the point she had cancer at that point, but she was still living her life and and still

singing and still um, just not giving up. She if anybody can inspire you, you know, in terms of people that don't give up and and keep going or read the Franklin. There's no better story than to read the Franklin. So when I say Franklin, RUTHA Franklin in the top five, I put her at number one because of how she lived her life and how she and she lived to sing, and that was it that it was all about. She was a queen because she was queen worthy, you know,

um and uh and and everything that she did. So there was a point, if I'm if I'm being honest, there was a point where I had Whitney above her because when I when I was Whitney, and Whitney was because Whitney moved me so much. That's like Whitney, no question the best. But I M hmm, but I hadn't listened to the old stuff, the Writha did you know, the older songs and listening to the young Aritha untouchable nobody. So then Whitney rounds out the five then yeah, Whitney

G five. Okay, al right, okay, this was gonna be tough for you. Oh man, it's gonna be tough for him not to name it. I'm not to get in his own band. Your top five R and B songs, songs, songs, I'm not gonna forget your mind. Um, I don't want to, Okay, Um. I can only name them based off of how they hit me, and they're the top five at this moment

you asked me tomorrow it might be you know. Um, When I first heard Luther Superstar mm hmm, and it wasn't just hearing it, but when I heard him do it on stage and how he um, how how he did that, I thought that was the one for me until I heard Houses Not at Home mm hmm. And then I was confused about which one it was, and ultimately it was which Your House Is Not at Home is not necessarily an R and B song, but it is by Tip Luther finished, um, and it was the

set up doom Doom, Doom, doom doom. And when he do that live, they're losing, losing. It's a it's a round and Carl, So for Luther, House is Not at Home um, elder barge time where reveel? I heard that in Cincinnati? Uh, I heard the same time I heard Chaka Khan. Ain't nobody? Um? And then we were in a in a club and I never went to clubs. While was at the club and and ain't nobody almost got me on the dance floor. I almost did, but I never get on the dance floor. And so at

the end of it, this girl grabs me. Come on, and so all of a sudden, I'm out there dancing. Ain't nobody, look like, why am I here? And then doo doo doo doo dude, and I was like old ship And the first first time I'm dancing, I'm slow down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know what a hunt she was, but I was more like this. Um. But no, I didn't hunt, so I didn't know, you know, I needed I needed

young Jerry Kurl back there. Um. But but that song, I was just the chords and and the voice and everything. I was just I was flabbergasted. And the whole time we were doing the tour with oh, I kept on trying to go up to him and tell him with that song, many how did you do that? And um, and I never got the chance to go up to him while he was onto because he would always I was like I was a hood and walking really fast making sure people like me couldn't come up and talk

to him. But I was. I was just blown away by that. And that sounds to this day every time I hear it's still it still touches me that way. UM. I can't really think of much more, to be honest, I'm just gonna give you talk two because like I can there there aren't songs right at the moment that

I think that just kind of like blew me away. UM, like those at at the moment that unless we're going back even back further to where we go back to the um the Jackson five and one that hit me there isn't there isn't one of the popular songs, but um, but it meant something to me the end of the time, which was looking through the windows, Um, looking through the windows Maybe tomorrow. I think it's called maybe tomorrow. Look

it up and they're like, what's that one? Um? But it what hit me about that is how musical it was. And and you know, there's always I'll be There and all the other ones, but for me. What what I love so much about the Jackson five are the producers of them that they were. They were taking them everywhere musically, and and that gave me ideas that I could two songs are freedoms go beyond you know. Um there, Um, it's an easy one top R and B. It's R and B, but it's not R and B but it's

but it's and put it. We put it in so food because it's the best wedding summer uh summer song, um barbecue song. Uh, it's just the best black celebrated celebratory song ever. No, not celebration from cooling the game, but um, September, September. It's it's like a perfect song. Yeah, And I think I copied that song a million times. I must have written that song so many times back in the day where I copied it and wrote me, you know a few September songs, just trying to get

that filled in. Um, where's that three four four? Good? Um? I think, Uh, trying to pick a funk song one of the funkiest songs that um not not with p funk with cameo ummed contumed. I can't even think of that. I only know the lick gumed. I guess I like what you do, dude. Mm hm mum mum m mmmmm m So I can't think you know, somebody will let us know. But I can't think of its title of

it right now either. Uh feels like it starts with the K. But but funkiness, you know, just when I saw Cameo, the first time I saw Cameo, and and for for a funk group, they were just the funkiest group ever. They used to they walked like they intimidated you.

You know, they're very great. You know, they walk into the walk into the arena were like it was wearing athletic cups over the pa and this was and but they carried it, you know, and so like and you didn't want to play a show with them because because they they kill you know. Um. And and that was so you know for me coming from that world and learning it, it was it's something that I respected. So asked me a getting tomorrow gonna be a different type of fair. Um, We're gonna build your R and B

singer called it R and B Voltron. Where do you get the vocals, the performance style, the styling, and the heart the passion who do you get your vocals from? For this artist? I don't understand what you're saying. So out of all the vocalists you know, all the vocalists you've heard, whose vocal would you use to build the perfect R and B singer? Pick It'll be a combination. Face. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. We're not fighting you on nothing. Usually I'll be over here going crazy. People

observe the rule. M Um, it's still not It's so easy somebody, um mm hmm. I don't know. That's a very hard one to pick because there's a lot of people in terms of today, even with kids today. That voice of voices that I love, some voices that I think are are great. That really blown smoke. But you have a great voice, tank Uh. You have a smoothness um to your voice. I love the love the smoothness

of it. Um. I think sometimes I think range is important, but then not always because it depends on how you use it. Um. I love um. I'm putting all these voices together. But I love Daniel Caesar's voice. Kyle, I love um. He's Kyle. You're different. Huh, He's different. Yeah, And and he's he's own. He's his own difference, you know. So, and I wonder where he gets where, where that happened for him. Um. I love the uniqueness of Gibeon, of

his voice. I think there's something that's not it's not traditional. So I'm into this. He's like a he's like a he's looking the new evolution of Keith Staton. Yes, um, almost a little jazzy. You know. You can move from very but but identific and identifiable these guys a little bit of a little bit but but emotion though, for sure. So I leaned towards voices that are emotional. Um, I'm not so. I used to be really into the movement how much you can do that, But I don't know

that that's important anymore. He used to impress me. But it's not what I look for at this point. I look for emotion. I look for even if it's a holding a note and if it's crack at the right place, that it's something that we were delivers this. The main thing that we want that I think that we need is just emotion. Um, so that you can sing something that that connects and it's not about Um, it's not

about so much about church anymore. Because I used to me, hands down, if your church, if you could go like, so that's what that's the thing. I know, I'm jumping around and moving around like that. But one voice I've always said I wanted if I had that voice. Uh, if I had that voice, I'd be a hell of a R and B dude. If I had BB whinding voice. You know, he can say anything if I had his voice. Like It's like I used to say that to Johnny if I had your voice, boy, and he's not know

what to do. You only knew what you could do, you know. Um. But it's a little hard for me to build the the R and B singer that you want to go because I'm everywhere. You know, I'm not because who got styled? Who's performance style? Did you? Performance style? Performance style? When you look on stage? Who Who's that today? A lot of the in terms of R and B is is it's more about the females. They're the ones

that have this flavor. They're cooking us. Um. You know, from from Jasmine Too to Summer to a lot of the girls that I've worked with on this album for Girls Night Out talking about it, it is like, um, people that I have was surprised with because I didn't know. So Rica had introduced me to a lot of these girls that I wasn't really aware of, and like one of them being Tiana Major nine. Oh we love her. And I had no idea that she had the presence, Oh my God in her vocal and she I had

no idea. And when when we got her in and she started saying said, whoa men you you really you know? And then um, another pleasant surprise. I mean, look, we at our Lennox come on special. What can I say? Um? And you know the Queen, I call her the Queen. Kailani has always the most recognizable just feel good ship period. She's just she just lands what what she lands. And

I love the career that she's built for herself. She don't care about what nobody else but what she does and how she roseen and she's selling out places everywhere, and I love that. I love that she didn't care about radio. She ain't gotta care about radio because their fans love her and that's very pure. So, um, another voice somebody like that threw me? That didn't throw me, But I was just so impressed. Coco Jones. I had no idea we got she did a song simple on

the album. Ain't that simple about that? Um? So, so I feel like for this record that I've worked on and these artists that I've been working with, I've been I've been inspired to see that these young girls, they can sing, and they're also very independent in the sense that they like to When when we worked on this record, we wrote this together. It wasn't like xl UM where

I wrote everything, handed it over. We wrote it all together, so we have one day to sing it, to write it and sing it on this whole album, and and so everybody came to the table and we and we only did it if we did it together. And so it was it was impressive to see their independence and see um independence in the sense like they it had to be had to mean something to them. Um. They weren't just gonna sing anything that you gave to them. Um.

And they had a you know, had an opinion. And that wasn't always the case before and in all the years I've been doing it, somebody they just whatever you got, just give it to And that's cool, but it's always nice when someone is invested in it. And uh, and they kind of know themselves and I think that's there. There was. The surprise is that most of these are all the artists that they did know themselves. It's different when you get with one that wants to be something,

but it's not that. But they actually knew themselves, so it made the process easier. Since you know, the name of the album is Girls Not Out, Girls Night Out, So you're gonna do a male version for the guys too, You're gonna do a series. Come on, man, you only the young fellas being with the young fellas. The young right there were available. It's something, it's something that you know, I could say, we'll see, we'll see with this rose.

I had had a good time doing this and it was fun too, as I say, work with these girls, and I've always traditionally just worked better with the women. Women. Yeah, amazing success. So don't forget about Bobby Brown Camble. I mean it happened. They were there up. I guess they were the end of the road. Hey, man, go ahead and do another challenge to make him do the album with the young man I got you. Yeah, start some ship off tomorrow. He likes to go into that. Um,

you messed up my whole voltron. You just yeah, no, you you've talked about all the things I wanted to talk about, putting so many artists, I talk a lot something. No, it's I love it. We need we needed that held vote. But speaking of of you know what, we got got a segment of the show for brother Face. Come. It's called I ain't saying on that sing and we need a baby Face version because we've had today. We've had all versions of our questions and are you know what

I mean in our list? Baby Face? We know you. We you're gonna give us your versions. You're gonna remix all of our stuff, even though on the verses you said you didn't do remixes. That what your thing? Because you know, baby you ain't got do remixes. It's a great stunt. I was at the house cracking up. Oh so we're doing remixes, got it? Oh my god? I can't say that to Riley. But did you do y'all think I was like really going after him? Well I

know you, so, yes, yeah, I wasn't. Okay, you're touching him? Sound like it wasn't full left hooks. What's the first job? What's the first job y'all think I did to me? The job, like I said, that's the job for me. Is that like remixing baby face something? I mean, you didn't have to say the full thing, but it's like we knew what it was. I have originals. Honestly, God, you how didn't do that? But it wasn't me. It

wasn't meant that way. It was like because when he it felt like the rules changed suddenly because when he played the one song that it wasn't remix that wasn't something he produced. I was like, are we doing remixes? Because I was thinking, all right, but that's Jimmy and Terry so and then I said, well that's I don't do remixes. So I don't know if that but that came off like I was like, I don't even do remixes yea or no. That came off like I don't need to do right well, and that was not what

it was. Honest answer, I don't do remixes because I didn't do remixes. It was it was back to the bless you more. Me commented, you didn't listen, man, you got your way of pooring champagoe. That brand is way wall playing on the wall inspiration is what I call all right, you got your way upoint Champagne. I'm just gonna stop what you are. There was no harm in anyway. So this was baby faces. I ain't saying names, ain't saying Oh this gotta could. The story can be funny

or fucked up. Are funny and fucked up. I just can't say their names. Um, somebody tore up. I can't do that. You can't. You can't do it. You can do it? Can we could tell him you could do it? Um? Somebody, I heard somebody tore up a hotel room because I left the message to say congrats, and because they left them because I left that message to say congrats. The person tore up the room because they thought something was going on with that someone. You left congratulations to somebody

getting married. No, that's all I'm saying. And you said still say no names them? Congratulations is different. I wish baby Face would wish me a congratulations on my whatever, because he don't want to tell us what whatever is. Hey, girl, you know him with your woman? Hey, you know sorry we didn't work out. I'm sorry we didn't work out. Looks like you really found love because it just wasn't just so congratulations. We hm it was a congratus. It

should have been us. But I just want to let you know I'll always love you and if you ever need a home, I have plenty. Where would you go? You will come to me because I thought only thought you with my sunshine. You remember the Whipperfield, don't you signed the ps? Don't forget about those two occasions. Now that we've come to the end of the room, we could go all night, ladies and gentlemen. Um man um uh.

One of the biggest inspirations for me and my career um from singing, songwriting to producing and now to us building a label, um and taking those steps. We are, like I said, we're following in some big footsteps and we are we're doing our best to make you proud. You've already may be proud, no, and we just in it you coming here and being on the podcast. For both of us, it's just like I said, this is

a full circle moment. You might not even know it, but you're the first person that I worked or when I came here. Obviously you know I was working with Damon Thomas and you know what I mean. But like as far as like an artist, producer, writer, just the whole thing. And I never had a chance to tell you back then. I'm young and I'm just you know, boisterous and the whole thing. But you've been my favorite

artist since I was a little kid. Thank you. I had a natural crack in my voice, something like alay. But you coming here today it means the world to us, man, because we truly celebrate a people who have inspired us and people who have continued to do it. Just like you said with your conversation with Aretha Franklin. Yeah, us seeing you still have a putting out more projects. You gotta put out nothing. You can do whatever you want. You've earned that in this in this life and in

this business. Your success have put you in a position to do whatever you want. But the fact that you will still give back to the culture and still make these albums and still I know you don't like to say this, but give us your gift that means the world to us, man, And thank you, Thank you, Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'm tanking. I'm Jay Valentine and this has been, um, in my opinion, the most special Army Money Podcasts episode today. UM, I love everybody who's been on.

But the God it here, so man for get its baby face, Okay. R and B Money. R and B Money is the production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the ir heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows, don't forget to subscribe to and rate our show, and you can connect with us on social media via at R and B Money podcast or at the Real Tank or at j Valentine