Ep. 13: Tom Mack on playing with all-time greats Merlin Olsen and Deacon Jones

the National Football League of your Los Angeles Rams. Eleven of those he was named to the Pro Bowl, which is unbelievable, First Team All Pro four times. In nineteen ninety nine, I love that. Year two, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Please welcome in Tom Mack. Hello, how are you, sir? Thank you? I'm I'm looking at these your life in pads, and the first thing that jumps out is one hundred and eighty four games played, never missed a game game due to injury.

I played a hundred. I missed some games. I know how tough it is, But one hundred and eighty four games without missing a game. How did you do that. That was probably, more than anything, a monumental tribute to stupidity. I played more than a few games hurt and in all honestly, one game I put myself in one play just because I said, oh, hell, I can black for an extra point. So I put myself in, and the pr guy came up to me right after the game and said, hey, next time you do that, you gotta

tell us. No, kid, you put yourself in the game. You just ran in there. You know it was an extra point. And I mean I had personally turned ligaments at both knees. Oh oh, okay. So when I came in in nineteen ninety four, Jackie Slater I think was in year eighteen. So he's my link to what it was like in the past. And he was a different breed of football player than I was used to come and straight out of college. I mean, this was a

full grown man. But it was more than that. It was how tough he was, how he worked, and it just gave me a glimpse into I guess how you guys used to play in the past, and how tough you guys were, and how much pride you took in showing up every day and being ready to play and not missing games. Yeah, that's probably a good way to sum up in particular, the two lines, both the offense and the defensive line. Guys didn't want to be out of the game as sort of as I did. Put

yourself in if you could. It really was a mark of, like I said, either stupidity or toughness. That we'd keep playing and you'd keep playing hurt because if you couldn't play hurt, you figured sooner or later you'd get replaced. And that's kind of how I got my break. The fellow in front of me, a fellow named Don Chewey, got hurt in a game and he never got to come back and play for us. Hey, that's just the

way it goes. And you're right, it is a very thin line between stupid and tough in life, not just football, some very fin line, right. So yeah, it's great. And I was I looked at some of your your football teams and what was it like to line up against Merlin Olsen, What was it like to line up against when you had Deacon Jones on the outside. What was that like in practice for you guys? Well, one of the things we did in practice and you don't see

it anymore because they've changed the rules. We would do one on one pass blocking religiously two or three days a week, and both the defense was trying to use their best moves and the offensive lines were using us. So it was it was really a very very serious challenge. Guys go on each other. In fact, I actually got hurt in a practice, had a guy come across my

face as I knacked his hand out. He was trying to slap me in the head and got me in the eye and cut my eyelid down about I don't know about two inches where I had to go to the hospital. So I drove myself over to the hospital and got myself stitched up. Come Sunday I played, So it works out that must have blood pretty good. That must have been cool looking. Wow, you know, I mean something you just had to do back then. But I look you guys, you were one hundred and twenty nine

and forty eight and seven eight division titles. You played in four NFC Championship games. I mean, why were you guys that good? What made you that good? I mean, that is dominant, That is a run of dominance there. Well, there there were a couple of things that really helped that when you look back on it. One, there were four of the five offensive linemen starting in sixty six

we played together nine years. That made a huge difference because you had a real camaraderie amongst yourselves, and the backs understood what we were capable of doing for him, so they could move in and out. Gabriel was the quarterback the first four years or four and a half years, and then Hadel came and then James Harris, both of whom were really outstanding and they had confidence, and that

really helped immensely. And then we rotated and we basically ended up in the next three years a new group of guys. So all of a sudden, I was playing as you mentioned earlier, with people like Jackie and Dennis Harra and Rich Sol, and all of a sudden it was it was a new offensive line again, and those guys ended up playing together a pretty good piece of time. That helps immensely. The defensive line was pretty much the same thing in terms of Deacon and Merlin. Originally we

had Lamar. Roger Brown came in after ros Cy retired and filled that slot, and then Dren Talbert and we really had some good guys that were comfortable playing with each other. Who was on that line with you? The guys that were you were together for nine years. Charlie Cowen was the left tackle. I was the left guard, Kenny Aman was the senator, Joe Shabelli was the right guard and the right tackle. We rotated a little bit.

We had a fellow named originally Joe Carollo, and then Harry Shook came in, and then after that John Williams so and all three of those guys were good and continuous guys. Most of them played more than ten years in the league, so it really helped to have that consistency. Wow, I mean nine years together. Your families grew up together, same coach or different coach, different guys coming in there. I mean, how do you break into that group with

the same group for nine years. We had Prohaska originally, and then then they rotated and we had a couple of guys for two years under pro throw, and then Prohaska, interestingly enough, came back and he ended up being the coach who was interesting guy, honestly, not my favorite. I mean, did he make you better? Did he help you get better? We went and round with each other and had a pretty good understanding. But he knew what he was doing.

He just did understand. Different people were motivated in different ways, No doubt that makes sense. Coaches tend to think one way and coach one way. So we had our moments with each other. But you know, I worked out fine, and I ended up playing I guess nine years for him. Well, see, that's the thing. When I when I knew that I heard we're gonna do Tom Mack, and when I started to get into your story and to see how smart

you are. You're not just the average football player. Most guys you know why they're playing ball, So I would I guess I can understand why I coach couldn't figure out what would make you tick, Like, why are you doing this if you really don't have to? If that makes any sense, I understand what you're saying. I was lucky enough. I was doing something I enjoyed and I was pretty good at it, so I figured that, well, I'll just keep working at this and I'll get better

and better. It's like, oh, people go different directions and quite blend quite as well as you know, I got it. You know, some of the blood and guts coaches. They just don't get certain guys, but it doesn't mean they can't help you become a better player. Thirteen seasons with the Rams, and you know, I asked us of a lot of guys, even current guys, and I guess you try to teach if you've been there, what it means

to be a RAM. So I'll ask you, thirteen seasons and horns, what does being a RAM mean to you? I think I was very lucky because I was I ended up being a fairly young guy on a fairly old team thanks to George Allen initially and his approach. I mean, he really went after veterans and we started to see my first year with four rookies and I was the only one that even finished the season. It was a real veteran team, so you really focused on

trying to fit in with them. I was very fortunate in that I ended up for seven years car pooling with Merlin Olsen and we drove about thirty miles each way to work and going home, and you started talking philosophy and what makes sense with what you're doing and what you're not doing, and how do you play the game and how do we fit together, and how don't we fit together? And same with our other teammates. That to me was a huge extra that I got out

of football. Besides the guy being a dear friend, I mean, he was also very philosophical about what we were doing and why we were doing it. So it was a great experience. You mean, like why we're playing football, why we're here, that type of stuff. I mean, that's that sounds like something I'd love to hear you and Merlin Olsen. You guys were about to butt heads in practice or you just butted heads in practice, and now you're driving

home together talking about philosophy. That's that's really interesting. We were lucky in that we were good at we were both good at It was a good growth period, I would say for both of us, You and Merlin driving down the road talking about philosophy. I would have loved

have been in that backseat. One day when we were going to the airport to a out of town game, the highway patrol guy stops us and I was driving, and I had a seventy one yellow Porsche and he actually knew Merlin, and he pulls us off the highway and his first statement as he comes up to the car is how do you two get in there? He spotted Merlin and he just wanted to talk to us. Yellows were driving down the road and the yellow pors.

So nineteen seventy the merger kicks in. Now you've got the Niners, the Falcons, and the Saints in your division. Is there one team you look forward to playing more than the others? Because I couldn't stand playing the Niners. But that's the nineties version of the Rams, how about you? Well, we played the forty nine ers. Actually, except for the last year I played, we played them three times. Every year.

We always played an exhibitions game against them, used to be the last one, and then we played two interdivision games. So I figured I ended up playing them. I remember counting one time, thirty eight times or something like that, down twelve exhibitions and whatnot. It was interesting when you went up to San Francisco. That was really a very in many ways, a very hard place, partly because of the fans, but they were kind of disconnected from football.

If you remember that was well, I played at TSAR number one, number two. It was out in an area called hate Ashbury. Yeah, everybody was a little happy no matter what. They didn't care what the forty Niners did. Anyway, we had good time and we had a very very

good record against them during that period of time. I think, especially when they had such a good team in the eighties, they ended up catching up with us, But I think at one point we were way ahead in terms of head to head games and how we had done one way or the other, no doubt. Yeah, I lost ten straight before I actually beat him, so I apologize, but they got it back on track. They got it back

on track. So we do this on Ram's iconic We Love This and It's Fun, where we asked the guys to kind of remember their favorite play, one play that stands out above all others, One of my most favorite plays about me. It was a non productive play. It was just the time the game had actually slowed down in my mind for me, and it was just one of those watershed moments. It actually was in San Francisco and I didn't make a play. It was just wow, I can do this, it's different. I became a pro

that day. Is there a play that stands out in your mind, something you can remember? Interestingly enough? Probably the game that changed what I was doing in terms of whether I was going to be a good football player or not. Happen in college, and it happened at the Rose Bowl. And the play was I was a tackle rather than a guard, but it was a quick pitch type of play to what was our fullback at the time and kind of a sweep around the right end with me and the lead because we had used our

wide receiver to block down and the play broke. Lanthony was our fullback. I remember him because he still holds the Rose Bowl record. It boy, he ran eighty four yards for a touchdown. I had gotten out in front of him and then caught a guy with kind of an arm block and knocked him down. So I kept running and I ended up running eighty four yards with

him and kind of green in down the field. And if there was a game that made a difference in my career, probably was that Rose Bowl because all of a sudden, everybody noticed, here's this big, dumb tackle and he's running faster than the fullback. So it was just like everyone knows who you are and what you can do, not so much that it proved something to yourself. It was like, hey, now you see what I can do as a player. You see, we got a lot in

common except going the other way. I think I gave up a Rose Bowl record rushing yards when we played Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Tyrone Wheatley like ripped three big runs on us in the Rose Bowl. That's so funny. Wow. Yeah, So your greatest memory is one of one of our worst nightmares. So I had Dennis harra On, who's a character, Love him. Dennis, and Jackie Slater, who I respect big time. They all talk about you with reverence, but they always talk about what you did after football, what you be

came once you left the game. You were in charge of a nucle year plant. Is that what I heard? Am I reading this correctly? I have an engineering degree in mechanical engineering, which was why I had gone to school figure and I could play football for four years and then I finish up, which I did finish up

and got my mechanical engineering degree. I was fortunate enough year after I graduated to do a kind of a quick business speaking engagement in downtown Los Angeles, and a gentleman who happened to be with a big engineering construction firm was one of the participants or members of kind of the group that I was doing this speaking to the result of all that is in conversations, he offered to let me come down to the company and review for a job and see if I was interested in

working in the off season while I played football. And the deal kind of ended up that we're not going to tell anybody you're playing football. You come and you become an engineer, and I'll work it. So five to six months after you start. As soon as the season's over,

I will let you go. You go back to football, and then you come back to us and the next off season I actually had to quit and get rehired, and I did that nine times while I worked in the off season for this big engineering firm, and the company's name was turned out Bechtel. Bechtel is I think they still are the largest engineering construction firm in the world.

They go up and down in terms of what they've bill but among other things, we built probably half the nuclear units in the United States, nuclear power units, and I was a project manager on one of those nuclear power units down in Arizona. So I guess after nine years, I cut my teeth enough that I kind of knew what I was doing and it was a wonderful opportunity for me. The result was over thirty years. I ended

up working for the company thirty four years. So I was very fortunate I had a second career beyond football, and lucky that I got to do that. Well, you know, I'm a I'm a big believer in the student athlete, and I think you're proof positive that it is possible. Shouldn't we all strive to have second careers, to plan for the future and still be great at football at the same time. It is possible. Yeah, now, very very definitely that That was something that my parents interesting left.

My dad had played professional baseball for the Cleveland Indians, and when he was doing that, they talked to me and said, you know, one of the reasons Dad did that is he also had gotten an engineering degree from a university in Cleveland, Case University, which was a very good engineering school, and he ended up not partly because of the Second World War and some other stuff, he did not end up finding a home, so to speak, for where he could grow while he was playing ball,

and my parents made a big deal of the fact that if I was going to try to play professional football, I needed to be sure, I found someplace else in the world, so to speak, in the business world or something else that I was going to do that I could call home and grow. And that's very much way I did. I mean, that's to me, that's the only

way to play. I mean, it's all consuming. You got to be dedicated to play at this level and to be great, to be a Hall of Famer, you got to take it up just a notch above everyone else. But I mean, you can't be your end all be all, you know what I mean. Your life can't end when the game ends. You have to be able to move on after. And I think you know that better than anyone.

Your father played second base, right, yes, okay, so he's got to be, you know, fleet footed pretty quick, and he gave birth to a guard I would put him as a better athlete than I was. One of the things that nobody knows is I have very bad eyes. I have real trouble seeing. I have like twenty four hundred vision. But I solve that problem while I was in high school because I became a swimmer, and you can actually swim with your eyes closed as long as

you know how long the pool is. And so that was my best in high school and my swim coach still marvels is the fact that I end up playing professional football, so you never know thinks you're going to turn out. Wow, Yeah, you can swim with your eyes closed, It's just that the learning curve gets a little painful. One stroke too many in pow. Good stuff. Hey man, I'm so happy and so glad that we got you. Thanks for coming on and doing this with us. It's

real good. I mean, look, we hope this current group makes it. If you had to line up in front of Aaron Donald, what would you do well, I'd probably do the same thing that I did when I lined up across from Merlin or practice or you know. You take your licks and sometimes you beat them and sometimes they beat you. Amen to that, I would suggest trying to cut him first, but just see if that works

and work from there. But Tom Mack, thank you so much for joining us, man, this is really good, my pleasure. Thank you very much for having me on. Let's a wrap one another pisoda Ram's iconic. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Hall of Famer Tom Mac. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button and be so kind and go ahead and leave us at review. Let us know which Rams legends you'd like to hear from. And there's still time to be among the first to experience so

Far Stadium. To purchase tickets, visit the Rams dot com slash twenty twenty one. That's the Rams dot Com slash twenty twenty one. Thanks for listening. I'm demarco' far. We'll see you next time on Rams Iconic