For a long time, I felt like I was in a battle with my children, yelling, threatening, guilt and shame with the tools that I use most. And that was until I found that there is another way. We're going to be using the term respectful communication, and we would love to share our ideas on why you might like to try this powerful tool of connection with your family.
Welcome to Raising Wildlings, a podcast about parenting, alternative education and stepping into the wilderness, however that looks, with your family.
Each week, we'll be interviewing experts that truly inspire us to answer your parenting and education questions. We'll also be sharing stories from some incredible families that took the leap and are taking the road less travelled. We're
your hosts, Vicki and Nikki from Wildlings Forest School. Pop in your headphones, settle in and join us on this next adventure.
Welcome to episode five of the Raising Wildlings podcast. In this episode, we are going to discuss our road to finding peaceful, gentle approaches to raising our children. If you've already tuned into the podcast, you may have already heard from some of the people who have inspired us to follow this path to respectful parenting, and we hope to bring you many more in the coming episodes.
But today, we wanted to share with you why we wholeheartedly value working in cooperation with our own children, and also the children we care for in our Nature Play program. Morning, Vicky. I hear you're still over at Moreton Island right now. Tell us a little bit
about that. I surely am. It's been amazing. I guess because there's no guests staying where I am at the moment, we have this amazing idyllic island to ourselves, which has been phenomenal.
That's so good. Marine biologists
in university.
Loving life. Loving
life over here.
All right, so let's get started. Today's about respectful parenting. Vicky, can you talk to us about what respectful parenting
is? Yeah, I think it's really as simple as it sounds. It's treating children in the same way that we want to be treated as adults. And I think that the main thing about this philosophy is that we are including children's voices in conversations that typically we leave them out of.
That's really important.
It is. And it's not mistaking our role as a parent because it's really important to keep in mind that it's our job to keep them safe. It's our job to make sure that we set appropriate boundaries. But it's also important for us to teach them how to listen to other people's perspectives and to empathize with others. So making the right choice for the right reasons. And I think sometimes we want them to learn that, but we don't actually give them an opportunity. to practice that.
You just hit the parenting me right in the heart. Just to clarify, to go back, so respectful parenting isn't do whatever the F you want parenting, right? It's not my child wants to eat lollies all day, so I'm just going to let them do that.
No, but it is about having a conversation. We can't expect them to learn how to create boundaries for themselves. We can't expect them to understand other people's perspectives. if we don't actually listen to their perspectives as children. Yeah. And to model it. And to model that. It's the most important part is that children learn the most by watching our actions. We can say whatever we want. till we're blue in the face.
But if we're saying it in a way that isn't respectful, they're not learning that.
You know, they're our biggest mirrors.
And it is, and it's, you know, we're never going to get it perfect all of the time. There is no such thing as a perfect parent. Okay, so respectful parenting really comes down to around four main ideas. And the first one really is that because we are in a relationship with our children, both the child and the parent need to feel or have an opportunity to be heard and where possible understood. So just go back there again. Parents. Parents have the opportunity to be heard and understood.
That's right. It is a relationship. So both the child, which is really important, and the parent has the opportunity to be heard and understood. So often children are not able to express their point of view and parents don't take the time to explain their point of view or they over-explain it.
Yes.
So they spend way too much time and they've lost their child. I can tell you right now, every time that I go into a deep lecture, I've lost them. And my husband will say to me, you need to stop. They're not listening.
I can, yeah,
been there. Yeah. So it's about using really clear language to make sure that what your expectations are, are clear, that you're being heard. But the important thing here is that children need to have a voice too. So they need to be able to express their point of view, whether you want to hear that or not, whether it is something that you don't agree with or not, that's not the point. The point is that they're allowed to express their point of view. And then you have a conversation about that.
Okay. So then number two is that children have the freedom to feel their emotions and that just links directly in that. So if they're able to be heard and understood without judgment and I think that's really important. It's our job to help them express those feelings in a way that is respectful and safe. We want our children to be coming to us with their problems. That's exactly right.
So denying children that ability to feel their emotions is just going to cause more long-term damage, particularly their ability to empathise with others. It's critically important to our human connection and our ability to just get along in the world.
Absolutely. So it's one of those things that we hear and you'll hear it a lot. Get up, you're okay. Stop crying. Stop crying. Why are you upset about that? You shouldn't be crying over that. That didn't hurt. Yeah, that is a big one. It's when children fall over and an adult will say, you're okay.
It breaks my heart. If I fell over like that and I had blood coming off my knees... I would want to cry.
Yeah. We feel like we want to do something. It's a distraction. We want to make sure that they're not going to fall into a pity party or a, I think that's the motive behind it. But realistically, what we're doing is we're gaslighting their experience.
Okay. So just to go back there, because I know a lot of people haven't heard the term gaslighting before. And it's something that our culture does a lot. And I don't even think that we realise that we're doing it a lot of the
time. Yeah, so gaslighting is a form of manipulation into making people feel like their lived experience isn't real. So we do it a lot with children. Coming from a place of distraction a lot of the time, But we dismiss their feelings and their perspectives a lot because we feel like we know better as adults.
But we do need to have conversations with our children so that we can start to unpack why they might be thinking or feeling a certain way instead of telling them how they should think and feel or not feel. So if we go back to the third idea of respectful communication or parenting is that we really need to state our expectations clearly, but also with purpose. So that means we need to set boundaries with ourselves and our children in a way that they can understand but with compassion in mind.
So keeping that in mind at all times, even if we have to be firm, and to also think about the purpose. So we're reflecting on and questioning our expectations so that they're fair and that they're developmentally appropriate.
Yes. Sorry, I don't mean to laugh. The reason I was giggling was because we both had our children come and interrupt this recording. It just made me think. what about my expectations weren't clear or purposeful. But I realised that today I skipped that whole section of I did tell them, okay, I'm going to be recording, but I didn't set my clear
expectations. And I did the same thing. I've done it before. When I've said it really clearly, we both commented, oh, my goodness, they were so great. We didn't hear from them the whole time. And then I didn't state that clearly at all today. And it was almost simultaneous. Both of us had come in at the exact same time. And, again, because we didn't state that clearly, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I wonder about whether I expect that from my youngest daughter at the same age now.
So setting those expectations, questioning them all the time and changing them. Have you got another one coming in?
Sorry, my kids just
came
in. Yeah, which is making me think, so I've got them trying not to laugh out loud, making my eyes water, was that right now, is this developmentally appropriate for me to be expecting my children to not interrupt me for an hour?
Yeah.
Probably not. Probably not. And the thing is because sometimes they do do it. Sometimes they're so engaged in what they're doing, it's probably got nothing to do with our expectations at all and the fact that they're playing and doing their own, they're engaged in whatever activity they're doing, it's got nothing to do with the fact that they're respecting a boundary.
But I also didn't check. I think it was that whole... what are they engaged in? If they're not engaged, could I put a little invitation to play out? So this is a really good reminder for me.
And that's that. Yeah. And that's exactly that. It's about surrounding yourself with people and having conversations so that you do get that reminder because otherwise the main influences that we see are authoritarian influences. They're exerting our control on children wherever possible. And we slip into those very quickly because that's our conditioning. Okay. So the fourth thing, part of respectful communication is that we really need to start to empower children to solve their own problems.
Far too often, parents come in and we give them the solutions or what we believe is the best way to solve the problem. So you're going to do this and you're going to do this and that's how we're going to do this.
And
that
will just end it quickly.
It will end it quickly. And that's what we're looking for. Quick, sharp solutions. But I think it's important to remember our long-term goals here that we're trying to teach our children how to communicate. their needs and feelings. So we just ask them a few questions like number one, how does that make you feel? The big one that I use a lot is have you told them that?
Like when they come to you with, my brother has gone and said this to me, you know that my sister's done this to me and blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, have you told them that? Have you told them how you feel? And I mean, it's not always going to solve their problems, but it's just redirecting them to actually focus their energy to the people that they're in conflict with.
They need to work out these problems with each other and then that way we can practice that language and they practice that conflict resolution skill set as
well. And nine times out of 10, I know we find now that if they do go and tell the other child their problem and how they feel about it, generally the child will stop because the children are pathetic. If they're saying, you hurt my feelings and I feel really sad, you can literally see the child go,
oh,
I didn't know that, sorry.
And then that way they will come to more of a compromise that makes everyone happy and There's some language and some questions that we can use to pull and tease apart the root of the problem and then you can start to think, well, how do you think you can solve this problem? How do you think the other person does? What do you think the other person would like you to do in this situation?
I think that's really important to focus on there is that this allows children to learn from their mistakes and to understand the consequences of their actions. So going back to that example, child approaches children person that's upset them you're more likely to get a genuine apology because they genuinely understand because it's not coming from this authoritarian parent it's coming from a child that they like and respect they don't want to hurt their friends so yeah
too when we frame it in the terms of punishment is that children can sometimes see some injustice in punishments as opposed to focusing on the problem at hand. So when we give them tools, we help them to grow. When we enforce control on them through punishment, we trap them in a cycle of self-pity and the injustice and they're not looking within and looking at how we can change our own behaviours.
and express what we need so that we can get what we want and have our needs met in the future, which is ideally what communication is about, is about making sure everyone's needs are met.
I mean, when do we get back to it? Do we want to raise kids that blindly obey or do we want to raise children that have the courage to make the right choice for the right reasons?
Yes, and I think that that is a really important point that you bring up. I was a blind obeyer of rules as a child. Same. And I have had to unpack that. And so we have to ask ourselves, How do we get to this place where punishment and shame is the norm? The answer to that is that we have been subjected to a lot of social conditioning.
Yeah, as have our parents and parents' parents.
That's right. And we are just so lucky and just so privileged to now have access to this information that no one before us has had access to, which is absolutely amazing. amazing because we can then start to break apart like what are the methods we've been using the harsh words and the shame-filled statements that we grew up with we can now start to see that they are they are harmful
i just want to butt in here and say that one of the main reasons i actually joined vicky's playgroup right at the start of all the wildlings was that i just was so wowed and so respectful of the way that she spoke to her children And I hadn't seen that done in many other places. And I wanted to be around that. So young parent me again wants to thank you for being a role model, because if we can't see it, we can't be it. So thank you.
No, thank you for saying that. And I would have to say that I've had influences in the same way. Other friends and my sister who modeled this for me. which then makes it easier for me to use, then hopefully, like you say, it starts to catch on. It's really important for us to be- It's like a good virus. It is, and it's exactly what we're talking about modeling for our children. We're also modeling it for other parents.
We react because the part of our brain that just wants to stay in control or to, we're triggered in some way, That part of us comes out first without thinking and it's then not modelling exactly what we are hoping to get from our children.
No, it's that T-Rex
brain. All that expectation. Yeah.
Our Einstein brain. Our reptilian brain, yeah. Yeah, we need to train it. That's right. Not respond to fear but to respond
to love. That's right. And I like to keep in mind the idea that discipline, the root word of discipline actually comes from discipline. the meaning of to teach.
Can you repeat that?
That's really important. Yeah, so the word discipline, which is what this all embodies, comes from the root word to teach. What we are trying to do with our children is to teach them. that is what I want to keep in mind. I don't want to use discipline as a synonym for punishment, which is a different thing altogether. So this is about being a role model. And that requires
a lot
of
work.
It requires a lot of work. Yeah. So what we're suggesting here is a very conscious and difficult way of parenting and communicating with kids. In the beginning. In the beginning. And it becomes easier.
It's difficult because we're having to change patterns and we're having to change everything that we know and that we've been taught and that we continue to see or you know that that's what's filtering through a lot of the time so the more that we can change that that language the better we are at changing that overall discourse in how we treat children
some of the ways we can do this to when we're in that situation is to a pause and take a breath but then ask ourselves that that question is why am i getting so emotional and upset about this what is it and really just start to unpack that because I know when I start the first why, it's like, well, he's doing that. That's not the answer. We need to go deeper again. That's right.
Well, he's doing that and that's triggering me because it's sometimes because, well, when I grew up, we weren't allowed to do that. And it's as simple as that, whether we agree with
that or not anymore. You start to recognise even when other people get angry about something and I think, well, I don't normally get angry about that. Why is it that that is really triggering them? That doesn't trigger me. However, that person seems to cruise, like, with their child at the supermarket. And that is not a situation that I cruise through. That is a massive trigger for me.
And when you do the inner work and you work out why, and I have done a lot of soul searching and reflecting on why is it that I don't handle situations where I'm being continually bombarded with requests for things at the supermarket or the shops. It's triggering me thinking about it. There's some inner work that I have to do there because when I start to think about expectations and the personality of my children and all these other factors, it isn't about them, it is about me. But
it's also making sure we're setting up those expectations to begin with. And I know that I don't because it's so routine and you've said it a thousand times and why don't you know this already? So it's all of those tricks again.
Yeah, it is. And that's why it becomes difficult because there's no easy way out. There's no quick, simple solution that feels like it works straight away because it is a long road. The end goal is a long goal. It's not a short-term goal.
A long-term goal is healthy human beings that can participate fully and openly and vulnerably in their relationships.
At the end of the day, we need to keep in mind that we're really on the same side as our children and that my children deserve to be heard and understood. And I need to make time to make sure that I validate that. I might not do it all the time and I might not do it perfectly, but I do it enough to see that they are learning. how to do that and to reciprocate that for me in in times when I do need it
I love it when they come to expect it mine are at that point now that when they come to me and I can ask them I was like do you need me to help or do you need me to just give you a cuddle and listen and they're like just need you to listen yeah
yeah exactly that's they know exactly how to guide you in what they need which is
beautiful. And they expect that. And to the point now that if I start interrupting, they're like, I just want to tell you how I feel.
Yeah, you're not listening to me. You're not hearing what I'm saying. You know, some people might see that as back chat. But to me, that's my children reminding me that I'm not perfect and that I do need to take my own advice. That's
then very clearly stating to you what they actually need from you. What more could we want from our kids, from people?
And I love this quote from Ella Noss, beautiful parenting author, who says, one day your child will make a mistake or a bad choice and will run to you instead of away from you. And in that moment, you will know the immense value of peaceful, positive and respectful parenting.
So if the idea of respectful communication and respectful parenting has piqued your interest, even just a little, and you're ready to learn more, you can just jump onto our website. It's www.wildlingsforestschool.com forward slash raising wildlings five for episode five. And from there, you can download our words of validation and empathy printable. Now I've got that stuck on my fridge laminated because I need that reminder.
I need the reminder of ways that I can turn around phrases from being more critical and judgmental to those words of empathy and validation. Next week, we have the privilege of speaking to Robin Grill. Now, Robin is a psychiatrist, psychologist, and he's the author of a couple of parenting books. My favorite when my kids were young was Heart to Heart Parenting. I loved it.
It just enabled me to finally listen to my intuition rather than perhaps mainstream parenting ideas that weren't sitting with me and just frankly weren't working with my children at the time. But we're exploring his new book called Inner Child Journeys and it's really apt with the respectful communication because it talks about how we write down the actions that trigger us, that children trigger us, and how that goes back to how we were parented and how we can break out of that cycle.
That sounds so exciting. We can't wait to listen to that one next week. Thank you so much for joining us as we discuss a respectful communication with you today. It really is the centre of our work and we'd be so grateful if you could share the love on your socials, subscribe or follow us on your podcast platform of choice. We really love doing this journey with you. So until next time, stay wild.