[00:00:00] Josh Khachadourian: Every man who's listening to this episode wants to have an extraordinary marriage. I don't think there's any man here that's married or single preparing for marriage that wants to have a mediocre marriage. So what makes marriage extraordinary? Well, I'm glad you're here because on today's episode, I'm bringing back Tony De Lorenzo and his wife, Alisa de Lorenzo, who are the founders and the hosts of One Extraordinary Marriage.
[00:00:27] Now, we had Tony on a few episodes ago. It actually was my first interview here on raising the standard where we discussed this book, the Six Pillars of Intimacy. This was a phenomenal discussion that I'm gonna link below. It's a powerful discussion, and it's e. An even more powerful book. If you want to have a marriage that thrives, you have to be familiar with how to build these six pillars into your life.
[00:00:51] And for today's episode, Tony and Alisa just released their brand new book, part of their series on the six pillars. And this one is all about. Conflict resolution. In this episode, we're going to equip you with practical strategies. Alisa's gonna break down the conflict cycle and ultimately how you can stop it or accelerate it to move through it faster so you get to a place of healing where your marriage goes from surviving.
[00:01:17] To thriving. There's a huge impact on your marriage and your life if you have unresolved conflict. So in today's episode, you will get equipped with tools, strategies, and tactics that you can apply starting today. Let's get into it. This is raising the standard leadership mindset and development for the ambitious Christian man.
[00:01:40] Identify, unlock and access spiritual secrets and strategies grounded in biblical truth so you can run your race and maximize your impact and influence. It's time to lead yourself, your family, and your world. Let's get after it. Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of Raising the Standard. I'm joined by two very special guests.
[00:02:03] If you've been listening to the show for a while, you'll know that my very first interview was with Tony de Lorenzo from One Extraordinary Marriage, and today we have a great treat because Alisa, his wife, is joining him today for this interview around their new book, which is a really important topic for all couples, for all men that are listening.
[00:02:22] And what I love about this subject, it applies to you if you're a married man, if you're a single man and you're dating, this is gonna be a very, very relevant subject for you as well. And if you're single and you're not dating, it still applies to you because we all have relationships in life. And that's what I love about today's topic.
[00:02:39] So Tony and Elisa, I'd like to welcome you to the show today. Thanks for joining. Well, thank you for
[00:02:44] Alisa DiLorenzo: having us. We're honored to be here.
[00:02:45] Tony DiLorenzo: Yeah. Thanks so much, Josh. And. I'm honored, man. I was the first, I was the first interview you had, and I don't know how many more you've done, but I, I loved doing my, I, I listened to the podcast, man, so thank you for what you do.
[00:02:56] Yeah,
[00:02:56] Josh Khachadourian: man, I'm honored. It's, it was an amazing conversation. I'm holding the book right here. Like, this book is amazing. It's still a go-to. Um, so all, for all the listeners, go check out the episode with Tony. I'll drop the first episode we recorded in the show notes. But the six pillars of intimacy is a must.
[00:03:12] This is just such a foundational book to understanding marriage and how to increase your connection. In these six pillars, these six dimensions that you guys cover across the span of relationships. And that kind of sets us up for what we're gonna talk about today, the new book. But before we do Alisa, I'll ask you, can you give a quick intro, um, for anyone that's new that's listening, maybe they're not familiar with your podcast and your work, um, that'd be great.
[00:03:37] Just for you to give us an overview for any new listeners. Absolutely.
[00:03:40] Alisa DiLorenzo: Tony and I have been podcasting for 13 and a half years. Um, the one extraordinary marriage show we are. We're committed to equipping couples with the tools and strategies that they need to create the extraordinary in their marriage.
[00:03:53] And you know, not only do we do that through the podcast, but I do that through coaching as well. Really getting into the, getting into the nitty gritty with individuals and couples to help them have the breakthrough and to identify those areas that need to be addressed so they can create the extraordinary.
[00:04:07] Josh Khachadourian: Yeah. Well, hey listen, I wanna thank you guys because, well, before I even met Tony, well, before I even started a podcast or wrote a book, I was part of the One family. Yes. Because I'm a listener. So I've been listening to you guys for a while. Yeah. And I appreciate what you do in 13 years, that's an investment.
[00:04:23] I just wanna say that it's an investment to do a podcast. Like you usually put your own money out there to get your message across, so, That I don't take that lightly. That's, I just wanna honor you guys for pouring into marriages because when you do a podcast, you don't get anything in return. You don't even get feedback sometimes other than if someone leaves a review.
[00:04:41] So I know you have other programs and other ways that you serve, and we'll get into those. But just to start with a podcast, and Tony, you shared that origin story and your mission, and I just think that's really important to sh to, to highlight because in a, in a day and ages, In a day and age with a lot of online marketers trying to find a niche to get something back from you guys.
[00:05:02] Were there giving and pouring into couples because this truly is a mission and it's a vision that's in your heart. So I wanna thank you for that. Oh,
[00:05:08] Alisa DiLorenzo: thank you. Thank you for acknowledging that. That means
[00:05:10] Josh Khachadourian: a lot. Yeah. That's a big deal. So, Alisa, I'm holding your book in my hand. This is the, the latest one.
[00:05:17] And I noticed that it's conflict, it's conflict resolution, but it still has the si it still has the Six Pillars, logo. So is this the second book in a series and can we expect more? How's this gonna fit into the, the family of six pillars? Absolutely.
[00:05:33] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yeah. The six pillars, like, you know, you held up the first book and that really is the framework.
[00:05:37] Right Equi, that book helps couples to have a shared language to understand how they can look at their marriage holistically and address when things are going really well and you know, when they might have cracks in those pillars or when they've got areas they need to work on. As the series gets developed, we're gonna have books just like this one that is just being released around skills, right?
[00:05:56] Being able to. Do conflict well in a marriage is a skill. It's not something that you're inherently born with. It's not something that only other couples have. It is something that can be developed. So we'll have the skill-based books, and then we'll also have books going towards a certain population. So the next book in the series will be a book all around the six pillars of intimacy for empty nesters.
[00:06:16] Um, iden. We are soon to be empty nesters. And so as we have aged, our audience has aged. Um, we're all getting to that stage where the kids are leaving home. And so that next book will actually identify how you can use the framework of the six pillars to stay strong. Mm-hmm. After the kids leave the home.
[00:06:32] Josh Khachadourian: Excellent. Now, Tony, I'll ask you this before we even jump in. To this conversation, it's probably important that we just do a quick review on the six pillars. Can you just name the six pillars for us for those listening? You don't have to describe them all, but just so people have a framework Yeah. Of where we're coming from.
[00:06:49] Yeah, so we have
[00:06:49] Tony DiLorenzo: emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, which is your non-sexual touch, financial intimacy, spiritual intimacy, recreational intimacy, and lastly, your sexual intimacy.
[00:07:01] Josh Khachadourian: Okay. Excellent. So that's our six pillars, and if those pillars are in place, we've got a great foundation and we got a house that's gonna weather a lot of storms.
[00:07:08] Absolutely. So that leads us into conflict resolution. So Alisa, you said you've been coaching quite a while, so I know you have the podcast, you have courses, you have a lot of different things you do at conferences and seminars and teachings, but you also do coaching. Is this. Was this book born out of your coaching experiences and being in the trenches with couples?
[00:07:29] Alisa DiLorenzo: A hundred percent. I was thinking about it just as this book was getting ready to launch, and the reality is, is that almost every session, I would say probably 99.99% of the sessions that I do conflict is at the core of. Those sessions we're not in agreement. We're not in alignment. We don't see eye to eye.
[00:07:47] He doesn't listen to me, she doesn't listen to me, whatever it might be. And so I've spent thousands upon thousands of hours working with couples to help them understand not only how they do conflict, which I identify in the book as a conflict cycle, but also what they can do. And how they can do it differently so that they can shorten that time and actually move more towards resolution instead of just, you know, sweeping things under the rug and going, eh, well, you know what, I'll just walk away from it until next time.
[00:08:15] Josh Khachadourian: Is the, is the vision to get to the point in a marriage where there is no conflict? Or is it to equip couples with the tools so they move through this cycle faster? So I guess I'm asking is the cycle always gonna be there or is it something that we can avoid maybe entirely in a perfect
[00:08:31] Alisa DiLorenzo: marriage? First of all, I don't think there's anything, any such thing as a perfect marriage.
[00:08:35] So let me. Birth that bubble to start with. Secondly, I actually, as a marriage coach get really concerned if a couple tells me they have absolutely zero conflict. And the reason that I say that is because you are two different people. Mm-hmm. There are, you know, things that you really like, things that your spouse really likes, things that you don't like, things that your spouse doesn't like.
[00:08:53] And there should be healthy discussion and even the ability to have a difference of opinion in a marriage and work through that. So the idea behind this book and understanding the conflict cycle is that you can move through it faster and it does less damage when there is a difference of opinion. When there is conflict, it does less damage to
[00:09:11] Josh Khachadourian: the marriage.
[00:09:12] And so I did start by asking you, have you seen this in other marriages? And obviously the answer's yes, um, but I'm assuming. You don't see this in your own marriage, Tony, is that true or did you guys experience this yourself?
[00:09:24] Alisa DiLorenzo: This is usually where Tony chimes in and tells everyone he's perfect.
[00:09:27] Tony DiLorenzo: I, I am perfect.
[00:09:29] Um, I'm just married to my beautiful wife, Alisa, for 26 years, and so she, she puts in the, she puts in the arguments, in the discussions that keep us going on our conflict cycle. No, we still argue, I mean, One of the things about our, our show, the One Extraordinary Marriage show, is that we've always said from the beginning, we are gonna be open, honest, and transparent.
[00:09:48] Mm-hmm. And so we have had arguments on the podcast. We still have differences of opinion that we even work through while we're on the podcast talking about a certain topic. And so I think for Alisa and I, what we have learned in our own marriage, when we look at our conflict cycle when we were young, marriage, even in our, you know, 10 and in those teen years, Our conflict cycle was elongated.
[00:10:11] It would take us days to recover. And now because we see the conflict cycle, we understand it. Those arguments that used to take us days can now take us like an hour to recover, resolve, and move forward with. Um, and so we are still a work in progress and I think until the day we die, we will be an work in progress and we'll be using this in our
[00:10:33] Josh Khachadourian: own.
[00:10:33] That sounds amazing. That's, that's such a quick win and a great promise if we can get equipped with the tools to move through the cycle faster. So I'm really interested in diving into this, but before we do, um, what's the impact? Like what happens in a marriage if no one puts any development, any focus, um, any priority on trying to solve the conflict and they're just like, Hey, this is what it is, and we know that attitude's out there.
[00:10:56] It's probably, you know, obviously the people you're working with, El Elisa, I'm sure it comes from one spouse because obviously one spouse is motivated to speak with you. But, um, what's at stake if we don't address this? Ultimately,
[00:11:09] Alisa DiLorenzo: the marriage itself. If couples don't get to a point where they can handle conflict well in the marriage, if they don't get to a point of understanding what it looks like, you know what their cycle is, the two of them, but also what's happening internally when they're in conflict.
[00:11:23] You know, there's a reason that divorces can be filed under irreconcilable differences. My translation of irreconcilable differences is conflicts We couldn't figure out how to resolve. Mm-hmm. And we just got tired. You know, those couples just get tired of it and they're like, you know what? I don't need this.
[00:11:39] Because if you're just telling me this is the way you are, this is what I've gotta accept, I'm
[00:11:42] Josh Khachadourian: out. Yeah, so, so what's the prerequisite if someone's approaching this book, this conversation, even listening to this podcast, what's the one thing they have to be willing to do if they, if they wanna work through something?
[00:11:56] Is there a prerequisite that's something that's required of them as they come to the table? Crack open this book and start to look at the strategy that's contained within
[00:12:04] Alisa DiLorenzo: this. I, I would say the prerequisite is, you've gotta be willing to look at yourself first. So often when couples are in conflict, it's very easy to look at your spouse and be like, well, if you said this, or if you did this differently, or if you didn't do this, and, and we can be very externally focused.
[00:12:21] The, the, the dynamic starts to change when we become internally focused. When we are willing to look at ourselves, look at what we've learned about conflict, look about our own, you know, look at our internal reactions, what we say, what we do, and all of that, then we can move into a place where we can take control of the one person we can control, and that's us.
[00:12:39] And so the prerequisite a hundred percent is that you've gotta be willing to look at the person in the mirror and say, what can I do?
[00:12:44] Josh Khachadourian: Yeah, I, I wanna make a comment on this, especially for the listeners of this show, because we're all about following Jesus as the standard and biblical masculinity. And that starts with self-leadership.
[00:12:54] So we always say that all men are created to be leaders, but not all men are leading. And that always starts with looking in the mirror first. Mm-hmm. So this resonates with me so much. It's so powerful. Because for any guys that are listening where you're complaining about your circumstances, you got an orphan mentality, victim thinking, or you're saying she'll never change, my circumstance will never change.
[00:13:15] What you just said is really the bomb we need to hear of it all starts with us first. Mm-hmm. So Tony, I'll ask you as a man, um, if you want to give any comments on that or what you see with other men or how would you charge a man to approach this situation if you were talking to a guy who has that attitude?
[00:13:31] I think the
[00:13:31] Tony DiLorenzo: biggest thing. In marriage overall, and I'm gonna just sort of give this overarching, we get into marriage thinking. I said I do. So there's nothing more I need to do. And I think I had that mentality for many years in my marriage and it was detrimental to the marriage and into myself. But once I stepped in and realized that what Elisa has put down in this book, um, in the conflict resolution book and in others, it's about skill development.
[00:14:01] And if I am gonna step into who God has called me to be, then I'm gonna develop skills that are gonna allow me to have the extraordinary marriage I desire. And so what I tell many of my guys is even around communication, emotional intimacy, for instance, I didn't always talk this way. It's a skilled development.
[00:14:20] I was willing to step in and go, what do I need to learn? How do I, how do I express myself when I don't even know what that looks like yet? And so we help folks obviously do that through the podcast in other ways, but really just stepping in, going like, I'm willing to grow. Mm-hmm. And learn a new skill.
[00:14:38] And know that it can take time. Just as you know, you lift and I lift and. We don't go to the gym the first time and, and like are like, oh, I got my, my biceps in my chest. No, it's a process, right? We go day after day or week after week, month after month to get the gains.
[00:14:54] Josh Khachadourian: All leaders are learners. So I'm learning today and um, sometimes I teach, but I'm always learning.
[00:14:59] So let's, let's get right into it. That was really well said, Tony. Um, so what causes conflict? Maybe we can start there. Like what's the root issues? Where does it come from? And then we can talk about the responses. And I want you to break down what the cycle looks for us, but what's, what's the origin?
[00:15:15] Alisa DiLorenzo: The origin is really difference, right?
[00:15:18] You know, we, we see the world differently. We get into a place where, you know, there's an emotional charge to those differences and we don't know what to do with it. And so that becomes conflict, right? And, and in looking at that and being able to go. And I say it in the book that conflict issues can either be a landmine or a goldmine.
[00:15:39] You get to choose, right? You get to choose if it's going to be something that's going to blow up the entire relationship, blow up the day, blow up the event. Or if it's an opportunity that goldmine to learn something about your spouse, you might not know what they're scared of. You might not know that their boss yelled at them today.
[00:15:57] You might not know that the kids have just been running crazy all day long. You just are met with this conflict and you're just like, I'm gonna blow it up. Instead of saying, Hey, wait a minute, something's going on here. What's actually behind this? Because all anger is, is a presentation of some other emotion that needs to be dealt with, that needs to be addressed.
[00:16:16] That needs to be acknowledged. And if we can get to that place of seeking to understand and get to know our spouses better, it becomes a game changer. Conflict isn't something that you have to be scared of. It can actually be a place of building unity in a
[00:16:28] Josh Khachadourian: marriage. I love that quote. Um, it's either a landmine or a gold mine.
[00:16:33] I did see that in the book and I was like, wow, that's so good. Um, and thanks for explaining that. Cause I wanted to get a better understanding of where's the gold mine. And I, I see what you did there with how we look at things and that that's an opportunity to come closer together. So I have a question about conflict.
[00:16:46] My question is, um, when we start, when, when a couple comes together and they're married, there's usually, at least what I've seen from my own experience, um, being vulnerable here. There's some root issues in the marriage and then they show up as little things like you even had something in your cycle where even something little can accelerate really quick, like a boiling pointer.
[00:17:06] It goes really fast. It's like, wow, that happened fast. And it's not because of like the conflict in the moment. It's actually because it's about something else that happened in the past. So I guess I'm going back. To the origin issues, but how important are those, I guess we could call 'em like a trauma issue or something that happened, right.
[00:17:25] That causes the conflict. And I guess I'm, I'm asking for your commentary and is this true? Is once that, once that issue's there, can it show up in different ways and express itself in different forms of conflict, but it's still. Going back to a rude issue a hundred percent.
[00:17:41] Alisa DiLorenzo: What we don't deal with. Yeah, I I have another line in the book that says we repeat what we don't repair.
[00:17:46] And so if you know, there's, and, and it doesn't even have to be trauma with like a capital T, it can be trauma with little ties. It can be the way you saw your parents fight, it can be the messaging that you've heard about certain topics that you've just, you've internalized that. And so those show up. In how the two of you relate to one another, and you might just, I tell people all the time, when you find those cycles repeating, we're always fighting about the same things, or it's always, you know, this dance that we do well, there's a cycle there that needs to be addressed and you do yourself and your marriage a favor.
[00:18:17] If you're willing to take a step back and say, when did this start? What's been my messaging? What is there a, is there a big traumat that I actually need to go get help for? And resolve because it's showing up in our finances and it's showing up in our parenting, and it's showing up in chores, or are there little hurts, whether in the marriage or prior to the marriage that I, I need to heal.
[00:18:39] And what I love about your particular podcast is, you know, if Jesus is the focus and, and if that's the standard, you know, then what does it look like to step into that healing with Jesus. Mm-hmm. And to know that you're not trying to do it on your own. Like you don't have to be a man that's gotta like white knuckle it and go, I just gotta get through this.
[00:18:55] I gotta be strong. You do it with, with your faith and your relationship and Christ at the center. So that the strength is not yours, because on their own, I will tell you, most couples cannot solve this. You know, until they really step into that place of going, how do we do it together?
[00:19:11] Josh Khachadourian: So in the book you talk about, and I'm really interested in what you see, there's different responses when a conflict arises.
[00:19:19] Um, I've seen it in my own life. I've noticed these patterns with myself, with my spouse, and you highlight four of them and. I think this was, for me, it was really interesting. I think the audience would be interested and as Elisa breaks this down for us, and Tony can give us his take on this too. I'm interested in which one Tony goes to.
[00:19:38] Um, I'll tell you mine, um, but as Elisa breaks this down, I want you guys that are listening to think about. Which response is maybe your go-to? We probably dance through all four of them a little bit based on the situation. Maybe I'll let you tell me, Elisa, but I, I noticed that there's certain conflicts where I have a similar response or there's something I do.
[00:19:58] So can you walk us through like. How do humans respond to conflict?
[00:20:03] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this was a really interesting thing for me, even in doing the research around this book, because we're so used to hearing about fight or flight, right? Those are the two most common responses. Those are the ones that everybody knows.
[00:20:13] You know, if you're, if you're a flight, you're getting outta there, you're leaving the room, you're doing, you know, you're like, I gotta go. You're slamming the door. Um, I have a lot of spouses in my coaching, um, with my coaching clients where somebody like literally takes off away from the house. I'm like, where'd you go?
[00:20:26] Like, why, why are you leaving? Um, the fight is that very aggressive. Like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna work this out. We gotta solve this right now. And it, it can be that loud, those bursts of anger. The other two, and these are a little less known, but surprisingly, one of them shows up in our own marriage, in me.
[00:20:41] Um, and that's, that's the fright. That's the freeze response where you just literally shut down, you become frozen. And I that I, it's a learned behavior. My mom does it. I learned how to do it from her, and I actively have to work on, you know, combating that even in myself. And then there's the fawning response.
[00:20:59] And this one was really interesting to me to, to learn because I've seen it in different dynamics. And this is like the people pleaser. This is the response that says, I will just tell you whatever I, you know, whatever's gonna make it all good. So the conflict will go away, right? Like I, I will, I will say whatever.
[00:21:14] Whatever will make you all better regardless of whether it takes care of myself, cuz it makes the conflict reduced and we can go back to presumed peace. Mm-hmm. Even though it's not really peaceful, cuz that person with that awning response is still all agitated, but they're just trying to get out of it.
[00:21:29] Yeah. So which one for you?
[00:21:31] Josh Khachadourian: Which one Tony?
[00:21:32] Tony DiLorenzo: Which one for me? Uh, mine is the fight. I want to get, I want to get it out, I want to get it done, and I wanna move forward. And like Elisa said, she's more the freeze. And we'll just shut down and just sit there. And so early on in our marriage, this was brutal because we didn't understand what was going on.
[00:21:54] And a lot of combativeness. Um, a lot of just shutting down. Uh, there was times in our marriage for days that we just wouldn't even plot one another. Mm-hmm. And so when I say this is a learned skill and something that Alisa and I have been able to learn over the years, you can too. Mm-hmm. Because even though, even now, In disagreements.
[00:22:17] We know I'm gonna get more, I'm gonna get more animated. It's not necessarily that my voice is gonna raise to a decibel, that's unbearable, but I do get more animated. My hands are gonna fly. I am moving around a bit more. Um, your
[00:22:31] Alisa DiLorenzo: words are a little sharper. My words are a little
[00:22:33] Tony DiLorenzo: sharper.
[00:22:33] Alisa DiLorenzo: A little sharper.
[00:22:33] He will, yeah. And I immediately, you know, Tony used to call me his California power outage. Yes. Because I would immediately just power down. You could like, There could be all kinds of life going on around me, and I'm literally sitting there completely stoic. Nothing's happening. It looks like an iceberg.
[00:22:49] Yeah.
[00:22:49] Tony DiLorenzo: But what I've learned over the years is for Elisa, she's a, she's a processor as well. And so what I am saying, she is processing and it just takes her time though to process all the feelings, the emotions. Mm-hmm. What's being said, what's the problem, what are the solutions? And so understanding that about both of us has allowed us to break our own conflict cycle.
[00:23:11] Mm-hmm. Get to resolution quickly and be able to go. Okay. We, we found our disagreement in this area, and yet we are able to come back together and go, okay, this is how we're gonna move forward together as a team. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:23] Josh Khachadourian: Yeah. So how has that evolved, Tony? Do you still find like the fight is still there because there's still an emotion, but maybe it just doesn't manifest or express itself the same exact way?
[00:23:35] Tony DiLorenzo: Correct. So what I end up doing now is more going into prayer and going, okay, holy Spirit, like give me clarity on this. And so when I have to still speak, it's not with the sharpness that I used to be. Mm-hmm. There can still be some sharpness that happens and yet I find myself to be Palmer. I find myself to be able to express everything, and then I'm also able to allow Elisa to process.
[00:23:59] Mm-hmm. So it's not like it needs to get done now, like. Fighter in me before would be like, no, this needs to be resolved now. Now the fighter in me is like, I'm gonna release this knowing that you need to process mm-hmm. For a few hours, for 24 hours, and know that you're gonna come back and we are gonna address the issue and then come up with a
[00:24:20] Josh Khachadourian: solution.
[00:24:21] So a lot of self-awareness, self-regulation to take a step back, um, and also to recognize the way Elisa processes to give her space. Okay. And Alisa, how, how, you know, just to ask like how's it evolved for you? So if you were the person and you fall into like the freeze, Um, is that still there to a degree?
[00:24:41] You just move through it faster or what's that look like as a wife or, you know, even if a husband, if he's a freeze, like how do they work through it? Does it totally disappear or can they just move through that faster? You know,
[00:24:52] Alisa DiLorenzo: I, I think some of those responses are just innate responses. They're default, they've been with us since childhood, you know, and so it is learning to control them.
[00:25:00] But I have had to teach myself, and it's such a conscious decision, Josh, when, when Tony and I are in that place of conflict, Like I am literally telling myself, keep talking, keep talking, make eye contact with him. A and it's, there is so much brain power going into that. Yeah. But I honor the fact that my brain is choosing to, to give me those messages.
[00:25:21] Like I'm, I'm present in that moment to go. Yes. Because it helps Tony and ultimately helps me if I can maintain the conversation, if I can maintain eye contact. Because for years, Josh, when we were in conf, like my eyes would go down and there would be no conf or no eye contact for days. And so what I want everyone listening to this podcast to understand is just because you've always been some way doesn't mean you can't learn new behaviors.
[00:25:46] It doesn't mean that you can't take one step closer to your spouse, one step closer to being unified. Even when there's conflict, you can choose, you know, it's beautiful. You get to choose your behaviors. You get to choose how big they are, you know, and it's okay to feel your big emotions, just how are you expressing them.
[00:26:04] Is likely, you know, whether you're fighting or fleeing or freezing. That's what you need to be aware of.
[00:26:09] Josh Khachadourian: This is a beautiful picture. I mean, really this is the definition of love that we see in First Corinthians 13, because what I'm seeing is like you both are laying aside, you know, where you normally would go, where you want to go in your personality, but you're saying, no, I'm going to listen and I'm gonna do something different.
[00:26:26] It's like a measure of compromise to meet my spouse, to meet my partner. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And make space for them. So it's awesome. Um,
[00:26:34] Tony DiLorenzo: remind. Josh and I just wanna share this too, for us, and we talk about this often, is that Alisa and I are on the same team in this marriage. We are on the same team. We are shoulder to shoulder, we're not across from one another.
[00:26:47] We're not boxers. I'm not the defensive line, and she's a quarterback and I need to sack her. And so when we sh, when we. When we change that perspective and when we began to change that perspective, conflict changed as well because it's a problem that we need to address not one another, and we're gonna come up with a solution.
[00:27:05] How we go about that though is different because we were brought up differently. We've had different things happen in our lives, even though we've been married 26 years. Mm-hmm. There are still things that we are addressing in our own lives, professionally, parenting with friends within our church, and so we tend to go, okay.
[00:27:24] Change the perspective. We are on the same team. There's a problem. We're gonna come up with the
[00:27:28] Josh Khachadourian: solution. Yeah, I, I'm looking at these responses and I'm like, I could see myself in all of 'em. And then I was thinking like, you don't have pouting here. I pout sometimes, like if I don't have my own way, but I'm like, you know what?
[00:27:40] That's flight that's shutdown. Um, so everything I'm thinking of fits under these. And one of 'em is, you know, the people pleaser. And I think that. That could actually, there's probably a behavior that looks like people pleasing, but it's really fighting cuz it's like, yeah, sure, whatever. Fine, we'll do it your way.
[00:27:55] Right. But that's really like a passive aggressive way. It's not really fawning. So I'm sure these things show up different ways. I wanted to make one comment that I see and I observe in men. Um, maybe I've observed this in myself, but I know I've seen it in the workplace and that's where. You know, and I see it with my kids too.
[00:28:12] Like we all deal with conflict, every single human, and you deal with it a certain way. So let's just take the workplace, for example. And in the workplace, what I find is that a lot of people are people pleasers. Like that might be one of their go-tos. Like, okay, fine, I'll just, I gotta do this. Maybe it's, uh, you know, it's a boss employee relationship, sub relationship.
[00:28:33] So you feel like you have to, or maybe that's your personality. But it's something you don't wanna do, but you're doing it because it's the political thing to do. And then what I find is that energy can be repackaged at home and they don't necessarily manifest as a people pleaser in the home. It comes out more aggressive as a fight because they're carrying around all this bottled up energy from conflict or unresolved conflict, and it comes out somewhere else.
[00:29:00] And I even see it with my kids. Like, you know, if my son explodes or something happens, I'm just like, Hey buddy. You know, tell me what's going on, like, what happened today. Cause I, I know that whatever just happened that wasn't enough to make someone react that way. So there's something else behind it. And, um, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
[00:29:17] Like, is the conflict, can it come from other places and then we take it out in the house?
[00:29:23] Alisa DiLorenzo: Absolutely. Because, you know, Interactions. Literally from the moment you wake up in the morning till you go to bed at night, you are having interactions that can be conflict, um, conflict situations. And you're correct.
[00:29:36] There are situations where, you know, we can't sit down and have like a 20 minute conversation with our boss and share opinions and and things like that. Or you know, we get cut off in traffic on the way home and, and that makes us matter. We go to a restaurant and they make our order wrong and that's just frustrating cuz we were just hungry and we had 20 minutes for lunch.
[00:29:51] And it is getting to this place of saying, you know, what does that look like when I bring this home? And if I'm not explaining to my spouse what the root is that given day of, you know what, this is what I'm dealing with, then we don't allow that emotional intimacy to actually be a point of connection in the marriage.
[00:30:08] And that's why, again, going back to the quote around landmines or gold mines, when you see your spouse, Reacting in such a way, and I was just talking to a coaching about this yesterday. I'm like, can you, can you take two seconds and stop and think, maybe this isn't about me. Maybe, maybe it's not about me.
[00:30:24] May like you just described with your son, maybe it's something that is happening that day or it's gone on and say, Hey, you know what, I hear your emotions. What else happened today? Like, we'll, we'll I, I totally wanna address this with you, but what happened today? What's been going on in your world that maybe I didn't know about?
[00:30:39] Cause I haven't stopped to ask. And step into that place of, of getting curious so that you can actually be a bridge of connection
[00:30:47] with
[00:30:47] Josh Khachadourian: your spouse. Wow. Really good insight there. Well, what I wanna do is I want you to take us to the actual cycle, because you have mapped this out beautifully as a cycle of how it starts, what happens next, and if we recognize the cycle, then our hope and our goal is to move through it faster, like you said at the beginning of this episode.
[00:31:07] So walk us through that, and I'd like to just have you break down a little bit of those pieces of the cycle as we go through it.
[00:31:13] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yeah, there's five stages to the conflict cycle and, and the first one appropriately, it is called conflict starts, right? It's that first sense that you have, that the air has shifted, the tone of voice is different, your spouse's body language, like you start to pair, you're like, sometimes it's that what just happened here.
[00:31:28] Mm-hmm. Right? And that's when you're aware. But you might not even be aware of what you're possibly even fighting about, right? It's just something happened. Then you begin into a place where it starts to escalate, where, you know, maybe the words are a little harsher, the body language is a little severe, and you know, almost the accusations start flying.
[00:31:45] That type of thing, or, or you just hear it. A lot of times this is a verbal like, Bam. Then it goes to the boiling point, and this, this is where, you know, regardless of what your response is, this is when everything is heightened. And it's, you know, if you are a fighter, this is where all your words or your actions get really, really big.
[00:32:04] It feels like the point of no return. Um, if you're likely to flee and you're, you go into flight, then you're outta there. You're like, this is too much for me. I'm out. If you freeze, this is your shutdown. And if you're fun, this is where you are trying to be like, okay, okay. What? What am. Like, let's just, let's jump off right now.
[00:32:20] Um, then you start moving into a cool down place, and this is just where everybody's trying to kind of get their thoughts together, right? You might be in separate places, you're cooling down, you haven't necessarily resolved anything, but it's just the emotional energy. You're not in that hand-to-hand combat moan that you are in the boiling point.
[00:32:36] And then the fifth stage is either resolution or return to status quo. And the reason that I put both of those on there in the cycle is that some couples at this point will actually work to create a solution and get to a place of resolution, but couples that don't have that emotional intimacy will often just return to status quo.
[00:32:56] They'll just pretend it didn't happen. They'll sweep it under the rug. It'll be another elephant in their herd of elephants in the living room that they're trying to dance around, or they're walking on eggshells, and then they'll just wait for it to happen again. But in the cycle, and, and you can see it in the book very specifically, we put, um, gaps in between each one of the cycles.
[00:33:15] And that was intentional because you can choose, and we've been talking about this a lot, um, in today's episode, you can choose your behaviors. You can choose to react differently because it's not just what's happening between the two of you. It's also happening inside of you and you can control. And emotionally regulate.
[00:33:33] And so you can make different choices to change whether or not you can get off before you go to the next phase.
[00:33:38] Josh Khachadourian: So you don't have to be a slave to the cycle where you go through every step. You could stop it. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's awesome.
[00:33:46] Tony DiLorenzo: Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna, and I wanna say one thing too. Each of those stages, time can be any amount, like conflict starts.
[00:33:57] It could have started in the morning, but then you go off to work, you're gone for 10 hours. Conflict is still sort of there. Mm-hmm. And the escalation happens when you get back home and then, you know, and, and then it could, it could slow down again because all of a sudden it's dinner time. So we got the kids around, so it's escalating, but we haven't hit the boiling point.
[00:34:16] We got the kids, we get the kids to bed, and then now it's 10, 11 o'clock at night and we're in bed. And now we hit the boiling point and cool down. Doesn't happen until 2:00 AM. Mm-hmm. And then we finally get to bed. And then we just go back to status quo because the next day or three days later, whatever it may be, we didn't come back to this and actually have any resolution.
[00:34:38] Mm-hmm. So that cycle can happen in different
[00:34:41] Josh Khachadourian: timeframes. Yeah. And Alisa, I, I think, and I've seen it, um, And I want to get your opinion from, from your coaching experience, are most people stuck in status quo where it's just time goes by and I guess, does that lead to a divorce where there's no resolution?
[00:34:57] It seems like it's better now. It's been a few days, like it just gets swept under the rug, so to speak, and then you're just waiting for the next stick of dynamite and something blows up again.
[00:35:07] Alisa DiLorenzo: Absolutely. Because I, if we're not dealing with these issues, then the next time that something irritates us, frustrates us, or annoys us, then everything else.
[00:35:16] It comes back into the argument. So it's the stuff you did last week and last month and last year. While I'm still bringing that forward cuz we haven't resolved it, we haven't healed from it. We just keep carrying our baggage and most people have, you know, not just one suitcase that they're not traveling with just a carry on.
[00:35:32] They've got like 25 suitcases, they need three carts at the airport because they have all this unresolved stuff. Yeah. We live in a society Josh, that is super comfortable being angry. And it's very socially acceptable to be angry and to just, you know, throw up our hands when we don't like something. It's counter-cultural to say, we're gonna work on this, we're gonna develop the skills to do this better because having a great marriage is what I'm going after.
[00:35:57] Totally counter-cultural.
[00:35:59] Josh Khachadourian: So what's the best way for a couple to read this book? Would it be for both of them to read it together, um, and both of them go through it and then discuss it? Would that be the optimal way to do this? Optimal.
[00:36:12] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yes. Realistically, there's going to be one spouse who really wants to work on it, and they're gonna read it first, and what they're likely to do is to then slide it across, put it on their spouse's nightstand, maybe leave it open to a particular page on the kitchen table, that type of thing.
[00:36:31] Um, that I'm gonna say may or may not go so well. Because it'll feel very, um, subversive to the spouse. What I say is, if you recognize, lemme back up. Every conflict cycle takes two people. So if you recognize that the way you and your spouse are doing conflict in your marriage isn't working, start working on yourself first.
[00:36:54] And see what change you can make in becoming aware of your internal conflict cycle, your thoughts and your actions. Watch what you can affect and likely what starts to happen there. Cause I've seen this in my coaching clients, people like, why aren't you responding the same way? Mm-hmm. Why aren't you calmer?
[00:37:08] Why aren't you running outta the room? Why aren't you screaming at me? Why aren't you doing this? And then it opens the door to a conversation instead of forcing it by making your spouse read the book if they're not
[00:37:17] Josh Khachadourian: ready. Yeah, well, I, I set you up for that cuz my next question, which you got to it was, you know, we're speaking mostly to men that listen to this show and if they have a willingness to change and they're already listening to this, so they're somewhat involved and interested in their own personal, their spiritual development, and they wanna be the best man they can be and the best husband they can be if their wife, if there's a source of conflict there, you're saying by just starting with this book and applying it to themselves, they can start to make a positive change.
[00:37:46] Alisa DiLorenzo: Absolutely because, you know, in addition to the book, um, any reader of the book can get the accompanying workbook and that allows them to really be able to go through, understand diagram, go through all of the concepts that are discussed in the book in a workbook fashion, so they're getting their thoughts out on paper.
[00:38:03] They're gonna start to see, these men are gonna start to see their patterns and as they start to see what they're doing right, how does that impact the marriage? Right? Where do they see that they can take control? Or, um, as you were saying earlier, be that leader. Mm-hmm. Because they have a greater awareness.
[00:38:20] They're not just on autopilot, they're not just a robot.
[00:38:23] Josh Khachadourian: Awesome. Well, I want to get all of your, we're gonna put all your links below underneath in the show notes so everyone can get the book so they can find out more about your podcast, your programs, and your coaching. Um, before I get that, before we get to that, and I'll have you speak to a few things that you do, Alisa.
[00:38:40] Tony, speak to the guys for a minute and just, you know, close out with, what would you say to a man who's listening to this that is encountering some conflict in his marriage? Maybe it's even with his family. What would be your parting words to encourage that man and to call him to rise up higher? Our words
[00:38:59] Tony DiLorenzo: have power, and it took me many years to understand this, but our words have.
[00:39:06] And one of the fruits of the spirit is self-control. And so we have the ability to choose the words we're going to use prior to even entering into the start of that conflict or even while we're in that conflict. And I have learned over the years that by being wise and choosing those words wisely, it can very much change how you are gonna get to resolution.
[00:39:30] Mm-hmm. Um, and so I would be, Very much like spend the time, think about what's going on, what are the words you're using, even outside of conflict, right? What are the words you're speaking over your wife right now? Mm-hmm. Like, what, what are you saying to her? Like, and, and what are you doing? Because that will change how you're gonna work through that conflict cycle and choosing the, the words that are gonna allow you guys to get
[00:39:55] Josh Khachadourian: to resolution.
[00:39:56] That's really, really powerful. So I'm just gonna ask the listeners now to just do a self-audit and just listen to what you're saying and just take an inventory of how you speak to your children, how you speak to your wife, because, you know, we're, we're told in Genesis, you know, we're to, we're to provide, we're to protect as men.
[00:40:13] But one of the things we also do is we create atmospheres with our words. So what's the atmosphere in your home? Because that's usually a reflection of what you're bringing into it. So I love this conversation cuz this is a lot of responsibility that a man has. And we have to look in the mirror first and say, if this is what I'm getting back, how am I creating this?
[00:40:31] Am I the catalyst for some of this behavior? And what have I done? So this is really an awesome conversation. Um, that was really, really good, Tony, to, to charge the men. With that, Alisa, I'm gonna ask you to. Close us out too. And before you do and give any of your last comments, can you just tell a little bit about the one family, um, how people can get involved, where they can connect with you, and then we'll drop all the links below.
[00:40:54] Yeah, the
[00:40:55] Alisa DiLorenzo: one family is what we call our audience. You know, we've said from the very beginning, you know, family does life together and it's not always pretty. Again, kind of gets a little messy, but you hang in there for the long haul. That's very much what the one family is. You can find everything that we [email protected].
[00:41:10] That is our hub. It has the links to all our social, um, and everything like that. And, you know, to get the book go to conflict resolution book.com. Um, that is the easiest, fastest way to do it. And, you know, watch what it does for your marriage. I mean, I'm, I'm excited because I've seen it happen in so many co my coaching clients.
[00:41:26] I'm excited to see what happens as readers take this book and implement it into their lives.
[00:41:32] Josh Khachadourian: Awesome. Well, all of your books, all of your programs are amazing. I'm a big fan of everything you guys are doing, and I'm gonna drop all the links below. Guys, I just wanna encourage you pick up this book. You won't regret it, read it, and more importantly, apply it.
[00:41:45] Apply what you're learning in your marriage, in your relationships. And what I love about it is it's not one dimensional. You can use it in your marriage, you can use it. As I am going to do with my children and also with people that you work with. So every relationship can benefit and be enriched by the principles and the strategies that you outline here.
[00:42:02] I wanna thank you both for jumping on today. This was really a great conversation. I know it's gonna add a lot of value to everyone listening. And guys, until the next episode, let's raise the standard. Hey guys, I got a quick announcement to make. If you feel that you're in the gap between where you are right now and where you're supposed to be in life, that place that God has promised you, that promised land that he has for you.
[00:42:27] Then I want to invite you into the Unfair Advantage challenge. It's an 11 day email training content that I've never shared on this platform before, and I'm doing this because I want to equip you and teach you how to access the unfair advantage that God gives all men who are walking with him. But here's the thing, many men never access it.
[00:42:48] Many men never reach their promised land, and many men never reach their full potential. That's why I'm doing this. So go to access your advantage.com. Sign up for the training, and you will get equipped with the strategy, the mindset, and the tools so you can unlock and access the unfair advantage that God has for you.
[00:43:08] Let's get after it.