Reclaiming the Generational Rearview Mirror with Ted Dawson

if we were starting to act up or she was starting to get irritated with me and Matt fighting or whatever um she would say 7 6 8 2 1 5 3 be what that meant was I'll call your dad and we knew like if if if mom gave us a punishment it was go to your room for five minutes right yeah but if you gave us a punishment it was go to your room for a week and so and get your butt spanked yeah and so we would just absolutely be terrified haha if if she was gonna if she was gonna dial that number and that uh

that scared us straight welcome back to raising men now we say that raising men starts with raising ourselves but in order to truly understand the men we are today we have to have the courage to look through the generational rearview mirror so today's episode is a little bit different in honor of Father's Day it's kind of a personal thing my guest today spent decades under the high pressure bright lights of elite television sports broadcasting he navigated major media markets

interviewed the greatest athletes of an era and he carried the massive cultural weight of what it meant to be a successful provider in the 1980s and 90s he also happens to be my dad Ted Dawson is sitting with me today dad welcome to raising that thank you Sean it's an honor to be here well you have been absolutely instrumental in uh in in this uh in this entire project for me and it is really really exciting uh for me to sit down across from you like this thank you I feel the same way

well let's uh let's start with kind of a cultural mandate of your era that kind of persists today um so there is a study from ecomundo showing that 86% of US men believe that being the primary financial provider is the single most defining trait of manhood now this is something that I mean I I gotta say candidly uh this is something you knocked out of the park right you provided you provided us with a life incredibly rich in experience and you know we didn't really want for much

we had an amazing freaking childhood and oh thank you yeah and more more more than that you later reached out and you helped me buy my first business which is a move that literally propelled me to financial independence it wouldn't happen without you I want to take this opportunity

to express my appreciation about that and it completely like I said it completely uh changed the trajectory of my life thank you um as I know from now having my own kids that level of provision requires a massive internal toll and so I'm interested looking back at those high stake years how do you how did you balance that intense drive to secure our future with the emotional needs of the family at home did you think about that or what you know no how did you try to do that

I guess that's how I managed it in that I was concentrating on my career yeah we both know you had an incredible mother who handled that that was all I did was turn my check over to her haha she handled it she was the one that worried about it so I was concerned with my career I was concerned with getting the latest interview and and going the latest sporting event your mom is the one who faced the the problem of providing for you yeah and she did a remarkable job

as most women do yeah we were we were fortunate to have her and we'll talk more about her uh definitely uh in the later part of the episode I um do you I mean how do you feel about that looking back on that was that the right call or would you have balanced things differently would you have done you know how would you have handled it absolutely it was the best thing for me yeah I could concentrate on my career my full concentration was on my career and she had everything else

I did some discipline and very little yeah I I remember um I I can almost produce your your uh work phone number in Los Angeles because there was this um uh yeah it was 7 6 8 8 1 2 3 yes and the reason that I remember that that I mean literally it's been 40 years 40 years right um since I've since I've heard that that number the reason that I remember it is because Ma would mom would say that if we were starting to act up or she was starting to get uh

irritated with me and Matt fighting or whatever um she would say 7 6 8 2 1 5 3 and that would be what that meant was I'll call your dad and we knew like if if if mom gave us a punishment it was go to your room for five minutes right yeah but if you gave us a punishment

it was go to your room for a week and so and get your butt spanked yeah and so we we would just absolutely be terrified haha if if she was gonna if she was gonna dial that number and that uh that scared us straight ha ha it was more of a problem for me than it was for for Matt Matt um man he did not get in trouble as much as I did yeah well here's the story I like to tell yeah when you were young your mom and I would tell you to do something no I'm not gonna do it no you can't make me do it no

absolutely not but then you would eventually do it yeah Matt well glad yes dad what what can I do to help how how can I help you let me do more what what can I do for you dad and they wouldn't do it so I always figured you were better it was better to do it your way than Matt's way well it was better for it was better for Matt to do it his way it was better for you if I did it my way

yeah so yeah Matt yeah Matt used to say that I mean he would just watch me be like what an idiot what is this idiot doing and I remember there was one time uh I was I don't remember how old we were we were still in the Hollywood house oh and um I used to get spanked all the time man I really like I feel like I spent my childhood getting my getting my my ass whipped by you and there used to be this just there it was like being on death row there was a whole process involved in getting spanked

you'd we have to go to a room she hated it she hated it oh man I I yeah yeah yeah I imagine well so when we would we would we would go to our room we did we'd be sent to our room for like an hour to await the punishment right and then you know to sit and dwell on what we did and then you know after the hour was up we would be brought into your room which was down this long hallway from our room and you'd be sitting on your bed and and you know you'd we'd we'd get draped over your leg and you'd

you'd smack us and we'd scream and cry and then it was over and so there's only one time I remember I I I got spanked all the time but there's only one time I remember Matt getting spanked and I don't remember what he did my recollection is that I probably goaded him into doing something that I knew would get him spanked and so like I I I arranged for the situation that resulted in him getting spanked and and I remember sitting with him in that hour before the actual event in

in the death row time and he was really scared he was really nervous and he was like and he was I don't know he's probably he was young he was probably 3 or 5 or something like that so I would have been yeah I would have been eight and and he was just he was terrified and and he was like oh you know what's it like and I was like oh it hurts a lot and I was milking it right you know I wanted I wanted him to experience the negativity and and uh he's like and he's like

and so I was telling him and he's like well maybe I could put a book down my pants so it doesn't hurt as bad I said well you know he'll feel the book and so he'll know that you're and then that's just gonna make it all the worse and and he you know he was you know I could maybe I could put toilet paper down there and it's the same thing man I mean he's he's he's gonna know that you have padding there I said I think it's just best you're just gonna have to

you're just gonna have to go through with it so when he finally when it finally became time and mom came to our room to get him and to march him down the gallows and I was following behind mom draped him over your over your knee and you gave him two quick swats and Matt stood up and he looked around he goes that wasn't so bad yeah I know yeah and I was watching this happen and I was just oh no and you grabbed him and in my recollection

you beat him to within an inch of his life I'm sure that's not what happened I'm sure you hit him a couple more times that was the deal but I did give him a couple of big ones ha ha ha I just remember watching this whole thing happen just going oh no oh gosh that was did you fake your kids no you don't no we it's not necessarily we rough house a lot I rough house with my kids a lot but never it's never an angry thing um I have video of you throwing like across the room yeah what

across the room I I'll see if we can share some of that video here because that is that that is a a great time he's probably 18 months old in that video I know exactly what video you're talking about yeah I loved it he was cackling like like nobody's business he had so much fun yeah we um yeah we don't we don't we don't use physical violence um like that um and I don't it's not it's not something that I it's not like a philosophy that we've sat down and oh

you know we don't do this or we do do that it's just not it just hasn't hasn't been part of our our thing I haven't really thought that deeply about it about it I like we we do rough house a lot and there is no shortage of times when I'll be rough housing with lake and he'll end up crying or mo um same thing you know she'll just like I mean they'll they'll they end up crying a lot because things get out of hand but but yeah we don't we don't we don't spank them but not in punishment

what in punishment at your house yeah we end up um you know I wouldn't necessarily call it so much a punishment like we use natural consequences a lot like there are just consequences of one one of the things that we've been dealing a lot with with lake you know he's 7 now and and we've been dealing with um what are essentially honor code violations where we'll we'll give him trust to do something um so for example we had an is a situation not too long ago where

um he's not allowed to watch YouTube and we have that lockdown because YouTube it turns out is very addictive for him and and it will he'll like end up wanting to do nothing yeah right I mean it's not just for for him it's for us too and

and so um we had a we had a situation a couple months ago where he lied to us about getting his morning checklist done he said he had it done when it wasn't done because he just wanted to get to YouTube faster and so then of course when it was time to go to school he had nothing done and we're like wait a minute what the heck happened and like dude you lied to us you just lied like and he doesn't lie and so times like that's a really serious thing for him and I um I got very upset with him

I I made it really really clear about how disappointed I was and that that really affects him um a lot and he um he actually started asking me for a while after that what's our level of trust you know and he wanted to he wanted to know what it was in percentages oh and and I was like okay you know our level of trust is like like 40% right now and he's like 40% he's very upset and then and then but as as you know we gained more trust he was what's our level of trust now and I said well you know

I think it feels to me like we're around 60 or 65% now he's like really oh that's great and so it was weird and um so we had this situation where we started we let him watch YouTube again same thing happened I just let him watch a couple shows and the same thing happened he didn't get his whole checklist done it's like okay well you know I mean you know what the consequence of this has to be we can't we can't let you watch YouTube in the mornings and you know he's like yeah

I understand it's and he's sad about it but you know I mean we do we do a lot of that there are often times where we get overwhelmed

like I I I really don't want to lose my temper with them but I'm really tempted to a lot um I get really mad at the kids um not a not a ton but there are things that they do that just really really tick me off and but I don't want to be screaming at them and stuff like that and so in those circumstances we we we you know we count them which means we count to three and at three you know they're in their room for a period of time like and they hate that and so you know that's

that's probably about 90% of it okay I I do want to correct something though you weren't a bad kid I mean he's stretching the imagination so you didn't get spanked that much ha ha ha it may seem like it but it wasn't I I feel like I was at odds with you and mom I feel like I argued with mom constantly I think you were at odds with her more than me yeah yeah we just um we just I we are a lot alike I think and we just butted heads quite a bit and she she didn't have to let that happen right

I mean she could have just shut me down or she could have called you in and there were times she did but I think she wanted me to I think she wanted me to be able to stand up for myself and be able to argue be able to yeah well I want to explain something to your viewers and that is and I think you you know this whether you admit it or not but you were always the smartest person in our family always from the time you were 3 years old you were smarter than anybody else so we had to deal with that

we had to deal with your intelligence so that was part of our challenge yeah I I I get that I I have to deal with that with lake he's unbelievably smart I think he's smarter than I was and it's it's it's very very difficult I'll tell your viewers a quick story when you were 12 maybe I'm not 11 12 you play baseball and you were pretty good at it but you wanted to pitch and you want a lot of people so being a sports caster in Los Angeles I arranged for the Dodger pitching coach to work with you

remember we went to Dodger Stadium I do I remember why we went to the bullpen and the pitching coach worked with you afterwards he came to me and said really good thing he's smart hahaha yeah yeah I don't uh you know that's funny cause I I came away from that with the feeling that I was a really good pitcher from that whole session like I mean it was it was a formative um it was a formative thing in my life and like I remember it and it's sort of emblematic

of the kinds of opportunities that I had as a kid that nobody else would have had right you couldn't pay any amount of money to get an hour with the Dodgers pitching coach yeah as as an 11 year old kid and yet I got that I don't know if it was an hour but but it was something and um but I came away from that like feeling like I was like I was this great pitcher and that I you know because I had access to this stuff and I and you know and I wasn't

and I don't know whether or not it would have been better for me to have been disabused of that or what I like what should have you know what what what should have happened there or what I know and I end it go ahead there's no question in my mind I did the right thing by by supporting you yeah and pleasing you and pushing you there's no question in my mind even though I knew you you didn't have the talent to to make it in the picture in even maybe in high school

but at your age I wanted to support you yeah and I would do it again

I wonder you know I ended up falling in love with sports much much later in life I I fell in love with volleyball when I was 30 right and I was pretty good I think if I'd played volleyball when I was in 8th grade right no I I I would have had the talent to do something meaningful because I ended up having the talent to do something meaningful as an adult almost right I just didn't have the years of experience everybody else did and um you know I I wonder like I worry about that for my kids

I want my kids to be excellent athletes and I I actually have to suppress that in myself because I because really and I've I've talked about this a lot on the show um where where you know a lot of that is my own ego I want to be the dad of a of an elite athlete and I I really struggle with that and I I don't know I wish that I guess I you know I I'm glad that you didn't one thing that you absolutely did not do is force me into a a particular rut or or anything like like you weren't

if I if I wanted to play football great if I didn't want to play football that's great too and you know I I think you probably you instilled in me you and mom both instilled in me that you know if I committed to something I had to finish it out but other than that I wasn't forced to do anything in particular but the drawback to that was that I I didn't you know I was a little kid trying to figure out what I wanted to do and I was kind of stupid with respect to that maybe I would have benefited

from some of the parental wisdom uh or or some guidance there I don't you know there's a tension there between those two things and do you feel like like how do you feel like you navigated that tension you think would you do it differently now no looking back absolutely not because we let you do a lot of things yeah I bet your viewers don't know that you were a great actor you were a wonderful actor when you were young so that was your outlet yeah and you started as Edmund in a Lion

the witch and the wardrobe yeah that was a pretty yeah kind of a major production

yeah yeah and you were the star at 10 years old or 11 or something so and you were really good at it so you made me buy my first video camera hahaha yeah I still remember having those VHS tapes laying around somewhere man too bad we don't have any video of that I'm glad we won't be showing that that's kind of funny what you know what do you think that as a family what do you think we did great and then what do you think we should have done differently uh well we all loved each other because

because we we all gathered around your mom she was the central figure in our family and her goodness shine down over all of us she made us all better that's what I think we did best now what we could have done better I don't I honestly don't know thinking back and I have I can't imagine what I could have done different yeah I I yeah she was a kind of a kind of a rocket ship for us and and it was you know she was never out there in the arena right but man was she just an unbelievable cheerleader

and that's for sure and yeah I mean I I I'm with you um yeah yeah I think we we really did do that great she can make friends with anyone I mean she had friends who were bumps on the street and she was friend with Princess Diana so I mean she was that kind of person I mean how do you look back on I mean it's so I don't I don't know the audience might not know we lost her when I was 21 years old um which is it was weird for me I mean I have talked about this on the show it was weird for me

when I finally crossed the boundary of I became older than she ever was and that was actually that's part of the motivation for even doing the show because it was like in my mind she was this giant like she could do no wrong right and her memory is so powerful it it's actually her memory is probably far more powerful than she would have been if she were a person now probably and because you would have gotten old and like me crippled up and and our voice wouldn't be as strong as it was

and all those things so to us she will always be perfect yeah yeah yeah yeah she man she crushed it what do you I mean how do you feel about the path that you guys worked together what would you what would you tell her now

if she were still around or boy did we have a great time I wouldn't change a minute not one thing she she supported me at every step of my career she never said oh I enjoy living in Portland why do we have to move to Los Angeles she never said that they just had a new brand new house we just bought a brand new house I got offered the job at CBS in Los Angeles and she never blinked an eye and we moved into a condo in Los Angeles from a beautiful house in Portland

Oregon and she never blinked an eye yeah and you had a one year old kid me yeah yeah yeah yeah she was yeah she was gun ho like yeah I mean yes yes and in every in every way and she she always used to say that you bloom where you're planted and you know she didn't man I mean she had she had like you said she had so many friends and was so powerful in that way she could make friends with anybody any in any station or anything and yet she it was like

she could be friends with those people from far away that's fine like she didn't have to like she could be anything she could do anything it was yeah she was really really amazing in that way yeah she was pretty amazing I'll tell you a quick story that you may not know but once you your kids were in school she wanted to get a job so she went out and she got jobs for people whatever that career is yeah yeah she got jobs for people and her greatest accomplishment was one year

she made more money than I did and and she thought that that was the best thing that ever happened to her it was that good that's amazing in in her side gig yeah yeah that's fantastic you know what what do you think you know if like looking back on it with you know sort of the wisdom of years now my recollection of your relationship with her is it was bulletproof like I didn't I mean you guys would get in one fight a year and it was usually a pretty bad one

I never really knew what they were about or anything like that that was that was sort of beyond me but you know I could tell when it was going on and but man like it just seemed like you guys were just really in each other's corners yep what do you think are there are there you know strategies that you were intentional about to make that happen or you did you just get lucky I mean was it well part of it was getting lucky part of it is a mental thing where you just gonna

I'm gonna support you no matter what I'm not gonna criticize I'm not gonna question I'm not gonna give you grief about anything I'm gonna support you and that's the mindset we both had and she was better at it than I was because she was an expert at everything she touched you know you know what I mean she was in real estate and she may not have sold a house and I know she didn't sell very many but she made 500 friends that remained friends all her life yeah that was her gift yeah

there's something about that that kind of unwavering support I'm behind you all the way that I mean I definitely witnessed that and I would second that I'd I absolutely think that was the case and I think that that she didn't wait to make sure that you were worthy of that if you know what I mean she didn't she made you worthy of that by trusting you to be worthy of that and as a result you became worthy of that you might not have started out worthy of that kind of

support but you were in that relationship you ended up worthy of it is my that's at least my sense or at least the vast majority of the time I'm sure you fell short in some way well I I definitely felt sure we were dating because I dated a lot of women haha including while I was dating your mother hmm and she hung with me despite that interesting yeah I uh that's I'll tell you what almost ruined this once I had a penis I was going to San Jose I was flying to San Jose to broadcast a football game

and over the Sierra Mountains I had an a a a a pancreatitis attack and it turned around go back to I'm not I'm serious go back to Reno and have the numbers happen back to me the hospital my mother came to see me well one of my six other girls she was not happy but that's when we knew that I had to stop this and she knew that I better stop it or that would be the end wow your relationship with your own father how did that influence how you became as a father both in positive and negative ways

well my father was very supportive of sports my mother was very supportive of music my mother wanted me involved in music my dad in sports so I had to do both to please them I was always trying to please my parents and they were child of depression they were never really satisfying so you never could please them so that was it was difficult yeah but an interesting thing happened that your viewers might appreciate but when I dropped out of medical school become a sports caster

my parents very upset and they wanted nothing to do with me so you know I had nothing to do I married your mom I had we had you and my parents weren't involved but when I went to Los Angeles I was invited to play in the big Crosby National Pro am golf tournament and my parents saw me playing golf with Lawrence Welk he was my playing partner and my parents who had danced to Lawrence Welk in South Dakota as teenagers decided that oh I must be OK and that got us back together again wow wow yeah um

well your parents your mother uh sure loved Matt hahaha she she didn't care for me at all because because Matt was yes yes grandma anything you want that's right yeah man she uh she and I did not get along she did not like conflict no no I mean she like conflict if she was a child she likes conflict plenty ha ha ha yeah she just wanted to be on the on the winning side of it all right well you were a teacher you think that I mean do you think there are any aspects of your relationship

with your dad that you felt was a counter example that you that you wanted to not do yeah my dad was always soft spoken it was always gentle it was always friendly and lots of friends and I wanted to be like that yeah I never wanted to be critical like my mother was yeah yeah that's for sure yeah that's interesting I can I can see that but I can see that I mean my mother's background I think I've told you the story about your grandmother yeah your grandmother my mother's mother

was born in the back of a wagon on the Oregon Trail in 1876 that's how old I am so when they went to their homestead in South Dakota and built a homestead there she was one of 12 children wow and they had this homestead and one day a tribe of Lakota Indians attacked the homestead killed her brother and kidnapped her so you your great grandmother was a captive of of an Indian tribe for eight years until she was 12 years old so that's the background my mother had growing up

so that's that's pretty tough yeah yeah yeah she was a great story about how she was rescued a 19 year old cowboy saw her washing clothes by the river in Montana and that night snuck into the camp got a hole in her tent pulled her out threw her on the back of his horse and raced away and I returned her to her family wow and seven years later that cowboy became my grandfather that's funny wow what a cool story you know they were tough people yeah what a cool story I uh

I like to finish up these conversations um by asking people more or less the same question and you've listened to the show so you've you've heard the question and that is oh shoot actually before we get into that um I think one of what you know obviously one of the central aspects of your entire life has been sports you covered sports at every level from high school basketball teams all the way up to the Olympics yes and I mean you've seen athletes at every level give me a sense of

what do you think the importance of sports is in raising excellent men teamwork working with other people depending on other people even in individual sports other people have to coach you they have to direct you they have to motivate you you have to work with other people to be good in sports and that to me is the best lesson that you can learn in sports hmm you know I guess sports is in fact you don't have to be good to learn that lesson yeah don't participate it helps you learn that yeah

my wife um I mean you know this but she was a professional athlete and um that open so many doors for her just in and and you know it helped get her in the law school it helped get her first um her first jobs outside of law school it's it's an interesting you know thing to talk about but it's also it it also signals to the kind of people who are wondering whether they should invest in you that you can you can stick with it right you and it's

it's not it's not gonna be here something with you yeah music does the same thing sure if you're involved in music it does exactly the same thing you have to rely on people you're part of a team uh I don't know whether you even know this or not but as a teenager I was a trumpet player and was named to the America All American Orchestra and I played first trumpet for the All American Orchestra and we played at the White House nice for President Eisenhower and President Kennedy

so wow that had a huge influence on me I was able to meet those people and uh it's just because of my grandmother again who was born in the back of a wagon flew in an airplane to Washington DC to meet President Eisenhower and President Kennedy he stood next to President Kennedy and Kennedy loved her story she just he thought she was just really incredible and my grandmother says you know you're an awfully nice young man but I could never vote for you I'm a die hard Republican hahaha so

and and President Kennedy said I don't care you don't ever have to vote for me just don't never lose that smile that's what he said to her wow I bet you would have voted for him hahaha after that no maybe never would have maybe not never got the chance I guess but that's your heritage interesting yeah interesting yeah I remember uh I remember the so I had never seen you play the trumpet um I never knew that you could we didn't have a trumpet at home or anything like that

and I broke my hand playing polo so I couldn't use it anymore yeah oh interesting yeah okay and I but I remember going like we were at a um we went to a fair and they had like a little band there and somehow you ended up playing the trumpet with these with this band I was like I was blown away when I was a kid I was blown away that you wow you know how to play the trumpet it was really interesting yeah that was a big part of my life yeah that's so funny

well you don't have to do sports if you're not inclined and and if you do sports you need to love it you need to absolutely love it it's like you need to love music if you go that direction or or studies I mean this whatever it is yeah I think you need some kind of discipline in your life other than just book learning yeah but either music music and sports work for me you know those are those are some of the institutions that are getting really strained I mean there are still sports teams

but you know it used to be the case you could just play you'd you'd play sports in high school and in high schools you know schools had teams and then you would just play there and that was the deal and now you actually can't really get into sports in any major way unless you play club sports and essentially you're turning pro when you're 12 years old if you do you have to you have to focus on a particular sport if you want to excel at it and that's the only way you're getting into college

it turns into this freaking profession right and so the institution has gotten you know it's gotten corrupted and and and we don't have we don't have true amateur sports as much in the in the way that we did even when I was a kid and I really struggle I really struggle with what to do with my kids about you know my kids have the genetic material to be unbelievably great at a sport or maybe more than one sport and I want them to for my own reasons and for their reasons

and I wanna cultivate in that that in them I also don't necessarily have the time to drive them to 1,000 different sports games and try a thousand different things and you know I don't even know that they're gonna be into it that they're gonna love it the same way you know I didn't right I you know I played football a little bit I didn't love it I I didn't enjoy going to football practice I didn't enjoy I I never enjoyed sports until I started playing volleyball and then I fell in love with it

and yeah I just don't I I I I think that I think you have to take your ego out of it I think you have to and I think you just have to cultivate the love of it for them and and it's not the love of excelling it's the love of doing the thing participating yeah yeah and I I really struggle with that I because I think part of the reason that I loved volleyball is because I was really good at it from the very beginning and I excelled at it you know compared to what I could have done and

and and lake has that same sort of drive he loves being good at things and he hates being bad at things and it's it's a real it's a real struggle for me yeah just point it out to them and I'll let them I'll try everything well I like uh I always like to finish these conversations with uh by asking everybody the same question and um you've listened to the show so you you probably know what the question is so you you have the benefit that a number of other people don't

which is that I'm not necessarily springing it on you but here's the question if you had one principle that you would share with parents listening to this show about raising excellent men what would it be support your child support them no matter what they do support their their drive support their passion give them everything you can and it doesn't mean money and it doesn't mean the greatest coaching it's whatever you can do to support them and the biggest thing is to praise them

and tell them that's you're not the greatest but you've increased today you've got a little bit better today always praise your kids that would be the advice I would give no dad I uh I really wanna thank you I wanna thank you not only for uh for for being on the show today and for kind of having the courage to to look back through uh the rearview mirror with me and sit in in this space together but more importantly for all the support you've given me throughout my whole life you know thank you I

you know no nobody's perfect and there are certainly ways that I there are things that I will that I'm changing about my approach to fatherhood that are different than what you would do it because I feel like I can improve upon them but man you you're you you are a great dad thank you thank you very much you're a great son haha and I I just appreciate it and uh thanks for marrying mom she man she was amazing and you know I miss her every day oh I really I really enjoyed it I really appreciate it

I appreciate what you're doing and what you become and the kind of father and husband you are it's very special well thanks for that and happy Father's Day thank you and to everybody listening I want to challenge you this week you know it's coming up on Father's Day so pick up the phone and you know think about dropping the kind of safe performative small talk about the weather with your own dad if he's still around just call him up and ask him a real grounded question yep

about the choices that he's made and in your childhood and it's I'll I'll tell you from experience that's what I tried to do in this little session and it's it's really really rewarding and uh and again dad thanks uh thanks for being part of it thank you for asking me until next time I'm your host Shawn Dawson keep uh keep it up keep showing up and remember that you are a great parent raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino