Navigating the Masculinity Crisis with Deland McCullough

I've had this poster board up in my room my whole five years at at at um Miami yeah the guys would come in my room and say man what's is that your dad nobody thought that was a coach right yeah they didn't they knew yeah they had never known him yeah yeah they had never known him yeah like and they asked you who's your dad no I said no I said that's my coach yeah because they knew it was at Miami they could see that this is the locker room like other guys are gonna like that I said no

that's my coach yeah so I heard that forever you know but you know and then so those those my initial flashback like wow make sense yeah welcome back to raising men Dylan Mccall is the running back coach for the Las Vegas Raiders and he's the co author of a book called runs in the family with Sarah Spain his story touches on a lot of the themes that we talk about on Raising Men and I'm honored to have him on the show Dylan welcome to raising men

I'm honored to be on here this is this is right up my alley let's do it it is absolutely a pleasure let's just begin at the beginning you uh were a young baby uh you were given up for adoption and into an absolute just delightful loving family in Youngstown Ohio tell us about how that went and uh and and what and how that shaped your early years yeah I mean you know you know I was adopted I didn't know I was adopted till I was you know I don't know six 7 years old yeah

people didn't talk about it back then right it was just a badge of shame or something you know and and and you know you didn't know a lot of people who were adopted but I mean I grew up you know in the in the um definitely had a great structure overall you know my mom and you know my brother um my adopted dad you know I mean yeah it started off as a loving strong circumstance my dad when I was 2 or 3 he left yeah um so you know it was a single family single parent family my mom

um she did a phenomenal job under the circumstances

you know um of raising me and my brother you know along the way you know she wanted to you know for us to have a a a a father on hand so you know along the way you know she you know she remarried um that wasn't a good example right there father fatherhood to me um she went on to have another relationship that would that really gave me a blueprint for what I didn't want and you don't hold that you know and just to give a disclaimer I definitely don't hold that against her

because her thoughts in her you know what she wanted to do was all genuine she wanted a father figure there for us and and sometimes she was trying to be a miracle worker with some of the guys that she chose but that was noble because she's like look I really want this structure she seen potential in some guys who just didn't bear out correctly so that was what it was you know and at the end of the day you know as rough as it may have been it still it still gave me and my brother

a blueprint for what we didn't want you know what we didn't want but along the way had a great family all across the board

my brother was phenomenal he was four years older than me um he was a phenomenal figure to me of what a brother and what a man should be obviously had great my uncles and my grandpa and you know and and different things you know and my aunts and uncles man outside of in the home you know um I had some great structures around me but all those things that I experienced and I seen unfortunately in my home you know in different things like that and some of the adversity it did make me very reserved

um it made me extremely introverted it made me very quiet because I didn't felt like I had the verbal tools or the physical tools at times to defend my mom um and and and really stand up you know in my house I just was scared you know so um some of those themes I know we'll get to that later on kind of permeated through you know I ultimately had to overcome those things but it took a while it took a while and especially being someone who was not I didn't experience therapy for this when like oh

I went through my I talked it out no I just had to process it out kind of on my own you know my mom had attempted to take me to therapy when I was younger but the structure of it wasn't um in the way that I really felt comfortable um expressing myself you know for various reasons so you know that was what it was so um um as rough as it was you know I still give that back I still say that on the forefront the backdrop was still was very positive my mom made sure that me and my brother

understood the value of education and hard work I'm thankful to my mom you know for that infrastructure yeah you know if you look at the statistics about um the outcomes of boys who end up growing up without a father in the home or without a without a man in the home yeah yeah it's yeah it's scary yeah you just would not have placed good odds on you having the kind of result that you ended up having and I get the sense that part of the reason that

that worked out well for you is because of football and because of sports yeah so that that was that was strong for me it gave me a structure you know um

you know I say a lot that you know football wasn't just sport it was a structure for me it was an outlet yeah so the fact that I may have been reserved the that you know quiet and different things like that football don't care about that football is about movement football is about activity and for me it was an outlet and a way to burn energy and to kind of just it was a release um you know so though you know my mom structured it so you know I was in football

I was in basketball she did everything she could she she made sure you know that those fees and stuff were sometimes paid even before our light Bill was paid she's like I want my sons to have these outlets because you know when you talk about not having a father around in addition to the environment we was in in addition to some of the um um tough environmental things that could have pulled me in a different direction and it did sometimes sometime I I did I'm not gonna sit up and

and and claim perfection cause I'm far from that you know but you know I think the the interesting thing about the environment is people around me seen more in me than I seen in myself

that was something that I'm eternally grateful for with some of my friends I grew up with who you know their life went in a different direction at that time some guys end up in jail some guys I mean I got some friends that deceased and a lot of different things like that from decisions they made but I got the ultimate respect for those guys cause even when I try to veer over into their lane and these guys I go to school with it is what it is they would say nah we taking you home no

we doing this and doing that and I'm like whoa hold up I wanna hang out too I wanna go do nah we gonna take you home it's like they seen something in me that I didn't see in myself at that time cause I could have just as easily you know I was a willing participant hey I wanna go hang out and do this and these were guys who were my age this one like yeah you know I was 10 years young these are my team my classmates teammates yeah so they said no you've got something else

you've got something special you need and I didn't know how I'm I'm sitting there what you tell me what what is it I don't know what it is cause I can't see it at that point wow they essentially saved you before they even saved themselves they weren't willing to save themselves but they were willing to save you yes yes wow that is incredible haha well all a lot of that really came into focus um with the appearance of a uh

a bright red Mercedes Benz at your door didn't it and so tell us about that a little bit so just kind of going back laying laying the the the story around the whole thing I mean so here it is I'm you know I'm a you know I'm playing ball I'm okay I mean you know I'm probably just a marginal student I was not a highly motivated student just because I seen what's going on in my environment I didn't have a really high um sense of self I didn't say I'mma be the this or that

the things that I am I never even forecasted that I didn't even think that yeah I'm just kind of based on what was going on where what I had going on I wasn't a phenomenal student inately different things like that um but I said what can I control what can I really really feel to control I felt like I control how hard I worked and what I did is I took that you would it'd be easy to say you should apply that same thing to the classroom I applied it to football you know what I'm saying

I'm sitting here being transparent I applied it to football sure that came very natural to me and I said you know what I can tap this out so in football I was like a very very hard worker because to my what I was saying is you know what amongst my friends and my peers you know I wanted to be respected for that that was really big in our community

football was huge in my high school and and just where I was from in Northeast Ohio was huge you know and I was the ultimate badge of honor so when I got in high school I mean you know I was small um I wouldn't that fast I wouldn't that this I wouldn't that that but I said you know what how can I make an impression here and it was like the light bulb went off probably going into my temporary year I said I'm just gonna work hard these guys I may not be whatever these other things

I wasn't thinking about the NFL or anything like that I said I want to be respected for what I bring to the table and if anything it may not be supreme talent but it'll be you know enormous work ethic and that's what I did so over the next couple years I mean I just was talking about this the other day that work ethic became contagious and somewhat legendary on our team because it was like look at this guy is that right he get the ball he running he's doing everything hard

he's on the work on the you know strength workouts he's doing all these different things so when my senior year um you know there was another guy that was trying to play out running back which is fine and I think he had a fumble in the game it might have been our second or third game and they put me back in hmm um and I had a great game like I'm like 200 yards and then from that point

everything was moving forward so I guess what I tell a lot of guys is that hard work unlocked the talent yeah so it was like wow we knew this guy worked hard but whoa he in the game look at this guy and so you were ready that fumble yes that fumble was your moment but because you had put in the effort because you had put in that hard work because you had focused and because you had gotten that reputation you got the chance and you and you were able to capitalize on it

as opposed to letting it go to waste yes so you know all of that that that that hard work and everything like that and just kind of how I handle myself on the field it manifested itself my senior year and here I am I mean going into my senior year I was my plan was go to the Navy I sent off the brochures you know I had a 2.1 GPA wasn't like hey I'm going on a athletic scholarship there's no way my mom was paying for me to go to school you know I'm like hey I'm i'mma go to the Navy

I'mma graduate and just go to the Navy so that's what my plan was going into my senior year ultimately had a really really good senior year which LED to some college opportunities and that's when the candy apple red Mercedes pulled up

I love it and and so who was in that so I'm sitting there as I'm in I'm in English class and I look down and I see this candy apple red and gold Mercedes it's stuck so you can't help look down wow we looking out the classroom me we on the third floor we looking down like man we wonder whose car is that that's a car yeah like who's that stands out what the who's that you know and um um I got a slip to go to the office not knowing what I'm like okay

we got in there and it's almost like am I in trouble what what's going on here you know you have no clue you mean like hey you know you go to the office whatever it's recruiting time so could be recruiting you don't know what it is and I go down there it's like a movie I I come in there and um he turns around as coach Sherman Smith from Miami University he said hey what's going on I'm Sherman Smith I'm running back coach from Miami University I love it yeah I love it and so

what did he tell you that made you want to go there what what what made you wanna follow him so I mean he's from Youngstown so he he's a known you know I mean he's a known person in Youngstown because he's from there he went to the NF I didn't know at that moment he went to Miami so that was a strong piece right there he actually attended he went to Miami and graduated I was drawn to him because I never been around a person like that yeah really good looking guy

well spoken I hear I'm a quiet guy I'm an introverted guy he was very confident you know um well spoken graduated from college play in the NFL all these check marks and I'm like man check I wanna do that I wanna do that I wanna do that all these different things of a person right there in front of me so the opportunity to to go to Miami and be around somebody like him was something that you know was very intriguing to me yeah I love that and he he

ended up being a really strong mentor for you I mean the the 30 year mentorship right yeah so I mean you know it ended up you know maybe a couple weeks later you know after we he came to the school we didn't have a you know we didn't have a phone we didn't have a car he came over and did a home visit you know that's something you know you know he understood you know he it didn't take him long to figure out the struggles that I had you know when I say the struggle yeah

he knew that walking in the door like okay but he's from Youngstown sure yes he grew up he had both parents it was different he had a different um circumstance than I had as far as directly in the household so when he came in I mean we had a extension cord I mean it's kind of well documented coming from our next door I lived in a project so we had an extension cord that came through and that's that's that was the power in our house so going to the lamp that was in the room

so yeah we sat there but had a phenomenal his his disposition me he wasn't judging anything but I think he was gathering information like man this guy got a ton of reasons to be successful you know he got a ton of reasons this driving him to be you know more than probably what his environment would say he should be

so um had a great home visit um Coach Smith drove me and my we didn't have a car he drove me and my mom to Miami University so he drove us up there for the visit wow I had a phenomenal visit and there was no way in the world that I wasn't going to Miami to be up under him and it was Miami was a different world for me because it was you know I mean Miami is called the Harvard of the Midwest I mean it's unbelievably beautiful school it is a a historically legendarily strong academic school

yeah you know and I was saying wow I could really go out of the box by doing this because there's so many people like I actually had one of my teachers in the school she actually told me once I said I was going to Miami she looked at me and said there's no way you'll make it at Miami so I had so many things that were motivational to me as I ultimately went to Miami but those are the reasons I mean Coach Smith the campus the challenge and then the prestige that would come on the end

of being somebody who made it through Miami yeah I get the sense that uh the best way to get you to do something is to tell you you can't you'll never be able to do it yeah yeah that's that because I heard that so much

you know what I'm saying so growing up and I believed it for a while now yeah I believed it like hey you know I get it and it wasn't until opportunity presented itself and then I walked through that door and then you know and I know we'll get to this later on but then every step for me every mountain that I overcame there was another valley I had to go down because it was like okay you did you did this here but I can't you I bet you won't be able to do it here well in high school you did this

but you won't be able to do this in college well and so on and so forth so I'm always I'm forever driven and for for me my path has forever been a rough path yeah but and and so let's get into that and and one one of the things that happened there um is that Coach Smith left Miami shortly after you got there didn't he so I you know I I'm fired up to go to Miami um and like right before I went there um maybe like the I went there in August so like maybe late July he called me

and he talked about playing a different position he said you wanna we want you to play flanker which in the in my high school offense that was a running back so I'm like yeah no problem and I get there and it's a receiver I'm like alright so my my first my so in training camp I'm playing receiver and here I am I'm 5 10 150 pounds or whatever but I'm running around I'm catching the ball whatever and it wasn't until like

the week before our first game we did a scrimmage and um I'm watching the running backs like I'm on the sideline I'm just watching some of the guys and I remember it was raining outside I remember me I started crying and I said I I don't wanna play receiver I wanna play running back yeah so I went to Coach Smith and I said hey I don't wanna play receiver he said we play this week you're gonna play you actually gonna play receiver you're in the game man you I mean you you a guy who earned this

you gonna play you gonna get a little playtime at receiver I said I wanna play running back I wanna play running back so they move me back to running back and um I went like on the scout team I I redshirted and I said that's fine I'll I'll you know I'll you know I I wouldn't expect them I'm I know where my physical capacity was at that moment I'm like I ain't ready to in one week be ready to play we got good players here it was what it was so I redshirted that year um and after that season

this one Coach Smith left so after my first season there my redshirt I appreciate about Coach Smith unlike you know unlike some of the other men in in my life is that he was respectful throughout

he was even respectful on his way out you know he sat down he talked to us you know and that was new for me you know because all of the other and it wasn't like he was in relationship with my mom or anything but some of these other guys when they left out they kicking doors out busting windows on their way out you know police so it's crazy you know crazy stuff when they left with him and I noticed to me this the parallel in my mind yeah of somebody who was put in a power

a position of power and influence over me who did it the right way he was respectful yeah all these things you know what I'm saying so I kind of connected dots in a little bit different way as it related to the you know the influential males in my life yeah and I so I mean I just get the sense that your life up to that point was you got abandoned by a lot of men and that had to have been that had to have been really challenging to you it had to have been really questioned you

know your worth and that respect and all of that stuff and then here's a man again that you really look up to he's a mentor for you he's I mean you really respect him he's one of the very first people in your life that you really really really looked up to in that way and then he now he's abandoning you too but he did it in a way it sounds like he did it in a way that it you didn't feel abandoned you felt no a different way no

I I did not feel abandoned at all you know and for somebody you know outside of my grandpa and different things like that somebody who I'm on a daily basis with who I kind of went to the school that's why I went to Miami it was called Miami is a great school I went there cause it's Coach Smith yeah um yeah so and so I had no I mean my respect for him I wasn't like oh man you abandoned me I didn't feel like that I felt like this is business um he handled it the right way

and what I really appreciate is he said look I told these guys give you a chance to play running back uh huh so that was something because we had just had two guys who were all conference the year I didn't play but he was like I told these guys give you a chance to play running back so that was kind of his last little thing that he asked the coach give this guy a chance you know so I'm glad he did I'm glad he did and that worked out that worked out okay that worked out so that that spring um

you know I remember the head coach phenomenal guy I'm he's passed he's deceased now but phenomenal guy coach Randy Walker he said look um we're gonna give you a chance at running back if you don't make it out if you're not in the top three guys at running back we're gonna move you to free safety I said that's fine too you know I was a receiver before but I'm really good defensive back too I said that's fine no problem we just had two guys who were all conference and I'm at running back

so we go on the spring and never look back I became the starter and I started the next four years broke every record wow yep yep yeah that's amazing and so um once kind of college started to end then what happened so I mean I go through the next four years you know phenomenal career broke every record at Miami and for the conference um you know you know I'm excited cause man I'm graduating all these things it's like so many things that I overcame cause I don't think anybody really forecasted

me being that level of college football player yeah and you know for me to you know go through school have a phenomenal um excuse me a phenomenal athletic career there but then academically my GPA was higher at Miami Miami is a hard school I had a higher grade point average at Miami than I had in high school I wasn't asking about that yeah yeah so here I am I you know I'm a much you know my ability scholastically was on par with what my expectations were for myself

because I didn't look at high school the right way my sons don't look at it I I changed that too that's something that I passed on to my sons that high school matters for me it didn't matter cause I didn't see myself going beyond high school yeah so you know it wasn't till my senior year that it kicked in like wait a minute I actually could go to college

so when I got to college it was serious to me I'm like wow now I feel like I was on like a whole another plane and I felt like man God got a plan for me because every matrix would say I should not be here I should not be in college I definitely shouldn't be at this school yeah based on everything that I had been through so I felt every year of college was like the ultimate blessing and giving me a platform to show where somebody from this environment can go

so that was really really big for me that like wow I'm I'm in like you know to continue to ascend with some things on and off the field so I wanted to make sure that I handled that the right way so what happened after college so get through you know you know it was had a great career I'm like hey here we go you know had great workouts for NFL teams I'm a I wouldn't a 150 pound guy no more I'm a 210 pound guy wow I thought you know here I am I'm running you know

I'm doing all these things on my pro workouts I'm killing it um you know but it goes to what I said again just my life track is the rough track yeah even when I've done great things it's the rough track I had a great you know at least a great senior year in high school I don't even I'm not even I don't even come in as a running back like a running back so no you gonna play something else

I have a four year career that's unbelievable I don't get drafted like everything say how in the world don't you not get drafted yeah that's just my life track I go to the Cincinnati Bengals alright I'm the last guy on the depth chart that's fine hey you went to a small school and you you weren't drafted and you're the last guy on the depth chart you're used to being the last guy on the depth chart I'm like unfortunately but you you it's like you get mad about it cause you're like

did I earn to to be at what point do I stop being the last guy in the death chart you know when when am I when do I stop being the last guy when do I stop being the second choice fourth choice whatever so um I go to the Bengals I'm the last guy on the depth chart but by the end of training camp you know I lead the NFL in rushing and all indications are hey you've done enough to contend to be the starter yeah and I get hurt so at the conclusion the last pre season game with the Bengals

I blow out my knee an extreme um extremely bad knee injury so here I am I'm back on the bottom okay I'm on I'm on I'm on um injured reserve so I'm like okay now I'm battling back uphill I come back the following year I shouldn't have came back so quick cause it was so many I come back I run faster than I did the year before no kidding all these things but my knee is really really messed up so um the Bengals released me early and I appreciated that it said look we're releasing you early enough

so you can get on another team I go to the Philadelphia Eagles I have a phenomenal workout there I you know I'm on the team and my I blow my right knee out again

so it's my second ACL surgery so I'm saying hey I'm kind of done you know and to me I I felt like I had accomplished a lot I overcame a lot of things I got a degree I'd always wanted to continue to work and this is probably like my driving force to a degree still is is seeing people reach their full potential so I I've always knew like NFL was not my goal that wasn't my goal that kind of I kind of fell into yeah the opportunity to go to the NFL but once I was going through college I said man

I wanna be able to do something to give back to guys you know at risk guys guys from rough backgrounds different things like that so when the after the second surgery from going to Philly I was living in Columbus um and I started working at a group I worked at a group home with at risk kids wow and I felt like that's my calling man I felt like I was really um strong there and giving guidance and mentorship and while I was doing that I got a call from Canada the CFL Canadian Football League yeah

so hey let's go play some ball absolutely

so I went I worked at the group home in the off season I went to Canada that was 1998 I came back worked in the group home which is where I went met my wife met my wife my second year there going into my second year into the CFL I go to the CFL have a great year that year um come back all opportunities or is everything is leaning towards me going right back to the NFL cause I had a really really good year my second year in Canada and then I go to my I'm not my interview I go to my um my um

physical for the Bengals and um I'm supposed to go back to the Bengals I'm like hey it's all good and come to find out my left knee was blown out I blew it out in Canada oh my gosh so that was that you know at the end of the day I said you know and I felt good about my career I said nobody whatever took question my toughness and everybody knew that when I played I was really really good you know when I was really good so for me from where I came from and everything

and all of the struggles and adversity I had I said I proved my point as a football player and now I want to prove my point as what I could do outside of football yeah I'd say you blew it out of the water frankly

I mean in terms of in terms of what you had any right to expect exactly you blew it out of the water yeah so then what so you're out of football yeah okay so keep on going so I'm done with football um I got the two years of working in a group home because I was I'd already said to myself look especially after my my second injury I said let me get ready for life after football yeah you know I said because I don't want you know yes I walk in with a resume saying hey um I played in the NFL

I said yeah that's gonna help a little bit it'll open doors yeah no question it'll open some doors but it'd be nice to have some experience to go along with it and I knew what I wanted to do I knew what I wanted to do so um my um we were living in Cincinnati my old I just had my oldest son um and um a guy who played for the Bengals not when I was there he was he had played before I got in the NFL or before I was with the Bengals um he was there a guy named Joe Kelly he

he had contracted with the um Hamilton County in Cincinnati

and he had around six or seven group homes that he ran like actual houses but they had at risk kids and I went in and interview with him he said man you've been doing this already so I was like check yeah I've been doing this so he made me a house manager so I managed the whole I had a whole house wow that I that I managed and um so we had guys there they were high school they were high school age um guys and so I would take them to school in the morning we get up hey we you know I

they make breakfast and you I go up make sure their room is done make sure they boom boom boom boom all these things are done and then I take them to school in the in a 15 passenger van I take them to school wow so the school that I took them to um um there was a guy there who was a teacher who I played with at Miami no kidding so I'm dropping him off I hadn't seen him in four or five years he like oh my goodness what you been doing I said hey I you know kind of told him and he said

you need to be here because the school I went to was a charter school and charter schools on the surface are for it's an alternative schooling yeah for you know it's an alternative it's a public school but it's an alternative school and at least at that time the beginning stages of charters were just happening in Ohio and they were really like a a spot where the kids who couldn't make it at their public school the traditional public school went to

so you got on paper allegedly the bad kids yeah the kids who failed out truant different things like that so he's like you need to be here so I always talk to guys about the power of relationships because come to find out the guy who ran the school was a professor at Miami no kidding he had never was he never was one of my professors yeah but um like two days later I'm interviewing right there on the on the sidewalk cause he came out and I'm interviewing with him and he was like yeah

I was at Miami while you were there and he said one thing that we respected about you and and no I was not the valedictorian he said but what I what teachers and faculty respected about you here you are big man on campus but you didn't conduct yourself that way you came to class every day you did your work you were respectful of the process you were respectful of what people were in school to do which is to get education yeah you came sat down took notes you wouldn't ask him for favors

you did what you were supposed to do he said and people across the university knew that they respected that cause people like hey they went to the games and this Dylan Mccullough guy and we be sitting there at a faculty meeting whatever and say yeah he's in my class he sit down and do his work

he work hard I said so here you are now and I tell guys who I coach now you never know your teachers that you have it could be years from now they could be hiring you based on the impression that you made on them yeah and it wasn't about being a phenomenal student it was about being a decent person you know so here I am interviewing with this with um Dave Nordic that's that was his name and he hired me so now I'm like perfect I'm in a school I love the school

aspect'cause the hours were better'cause I work 12 hour shifts at the group home right so you know I I wouldn't see I wouldn't see my son I would see him laying down before we be sleep before I went to to work and be sleep when I get home yeah so going into a school atmosphere I'm like wow I got the hours this I'm like this gonna be perfect I never was a teacher before that wasn't with my my major in school was sociology and coaching ironically it just not because I wanted to coach

it was because some of my PE classes fell into coaching yeah yeah so maybe that was a precursor because I never was interested in coaching I get to this school they were just starting a football team wow wow like they were just starting it was a new school they were starting a football team and I'm in Cincinnati Miami of Ohio is 40 minutes 45 minutes away from Cincinnati yeah and I played for the Bengals so everybody in the world like you definitely coaching right I'm like no no I'm not wow no

I'm not I'm not interested in coaching I'm what I was gonna be doing that working with the kids was my was my thing you know and it's and just kind of jumping back for a second I just got done telling you 15 20 minutes ago my upbringing story right no one in the world would say Dylan Mccalla is gonna stand up and teach the guy don't talk he doesn't speak hahaha how is he gonna how is he gonna teach somebody he don't he don't talk yeah you know but what I did over the years

I mean and that that was a stigma that was with me for a while even when I went to college I was a really like my first year guys on the team you know I would talk to my team but I was really short you know I was a great teammate I worked hard but I always felt like somebody gonna take this from me this gonna get taken from me this gonna get taken from me so I was really like in my own zone and protective of kind of what anxious what I wanted to do what I needed to try to get done and I even

I felt for years like something gonna go wrong and I'm it's not gonna work out yeah I just that was just kind of how I was built up you know to a degree just maybe how my thinking was but fast forward several years here I am in the school setting you know and even just my tone and and vocabulary now it blows people away when I go home they said this wasn't you when you were here we never got to hear your vocabulary cause you didn't talk you barely spoke to anybody

so so anyway fast forward here I am I'm now I'm an English teacher wow you know and and I'm sitting here you know he was like I want you to teach communications I'm like okay I was the fourth communications teacher that year they're rolling guys up out of there the guys couldn't have and I came in there and it wouldn't happen I came in and said boom here we go you know and and one of the first people this was really interesting really interesting we had the it was like the classic

not I wouldn't call him a bully but here he is a guy who sold drugs he did some he was kind of in he come to school just to flash and then he be gone he come to school maybe once a week to flash his car his jewelry his and then he's gone a week yeah two weeks then he come back do it again he just come in cause problems and leave yeah but um this particular day he came in and here he is here I am the 4th 5th teacher that year

and he come into class and he started up with his mess and I'm like no no no no no no so I told him he had to stay after school with me he's like you gotta be kidding cause I'm putting structure on this guy he's like what and after school um he knew my background he you know cause people like I'm we got a former bingo working here and all of this and um he was the first person that I told my story hey I'm adopted hey I'm from I'm you I'm from where you are cause he start cause he was in class

you don't understand what I'm going through oh yeah I do yes I do very well yeah so after school his name was Wyndham Parham we had a long conversation and it was one of those deals where that laid everything out the next day he was back at school and he told and some people who act up he turned around and said he was my guy who nah I didn't have to enforce anymore I got him because he he looking at somebody who could give him something because I came from the same circumstance if not worse yeah

so he was the enforcer of the classroom hey be quiet back there wow what a what a change yeah he kind of and then I he was one of the guys cause I was a football coach then I wanted him to play football so he came and play football and it changed his life it changed his life it legitimately changed his life from a guy who probably wouldn't have lived too much longer yeah to help get him a scholarship to college and now he's like one of the top firefighter I wrote his letter for him to get um

into the uh fire the what is the fire academy or whatever to be a fireman

and now he's been 20 years a fireman family all so all these different things so my impact I'm just using him as one that's really on a high level but my whole goal there was be impactful to the guys that I'm being around I want to make a difference so yes I end up coaching um two weeks into the season the head coach got fired and I become the head coach I'm like I didn't even come here to coach man and now I'm the head coach right but it was the ultimate blessing man cause you may yes

I know football and different things but where I wanted to reach guys was just kind of the way I was already doing it but it gave me an additional technical to help guys in a sport that I love that basically gave me a lot of the opportunities that I had in my life so I'm the head coach I'm the I was initially the English teacher I became the head of a department and I was the athletic director so I did that for three years and then I became the principal so I became

I became the principal of the school because what it is is it was a school within it had like programs within the school yeah so I created a a I proposed a program called Sports Academy which I'm still super proud of it was called Sports Academy and I said look I wanted to create curriculum based on sports

so I ran the program um I got the guy who ran the school said look you can get three other teachers to round out your staff and um and then get students to come in there so I got a lot of the athletes but I got you know some other people too but all the curriculum was based around sports so when we read it wasn't a regular novel we reading the autobiography of Jackie Robinson and different things yeah the the the math was around sports themes sociology

I mean social studies was around sports themes science was around sports stuff so it was a way of tricking the guys like wow we just coming in learning about sports but no you learning about fractions you learning about reading comprehension you learning about chemistry you learn about biology so this program was phenomenal in our school and that's when the guy who ran the school he came in and said if you can do what you did in this program in the entire school

we'd have one of the best schools around so I didn't know what he was getting at he said I want you to run the whole school wow so I became the principal in July of whatever year that was and I told him I said you gotta let me coach this team now I was the football coach I said we this far let me finish this season let me coach this season so I coached that season as the principal um I was the principal coaching the team and then after the season um

you know I got another coach and then ironically

the guy who ran the school who was a professor at Miami we had a boxing team too okay he was a boxer and he in December he died working out he he passed away so then I became the guy over everything I'm like okay I've only been the principal I was the principal more for tone and setting programs and kind of creating a culture but now I became the executive director of the entire school so I was over everything so um I did some switch UPS I made the school uniform I said we hey

we gonna everybody wear uniforms I kind of boom put my touches on it yeah you know split the school into a split gender school so I'm doing all these things I wanted to be a better experience for the for the students there so I was really excited about that really excited um we ready for the next phase I am I want I want to double click on something really fast and you said that you split the school into a split gender school what does that mean and why did you decide to do that well you know

I was just you know you continue to look for ways to make the school better you know so I was looking at okay here's our population okay we switched to uniforms that was a huge step in the right direction cause I was looking at what are all the things that are prohibiting guys from being successful

in our in our environment yeah okay the whole thing of how you look how you dress this my style we're gonna eliminate that everybody got the same thing on yep you know because that was some of the things when you went through and seeing why when you were at school why this why that'cause I don't want nobody to make fun of me I can relate to that yeah because I grew up I went to school yeah I went to I had holes in the side of my pants I had issues too you know and I was in a uniform school

you know yeah and and but you know whatever so that was one thing with the uniforms and then the next thing with the split gender um it was a guy named Dr Leonard Sacks who I just put out a book called why Gender Matters uh huh and it was an extensive um publication on the advantages of split gender school yeah and I was like I love it yeah I love it yeah I love it because it talked about especially for boys it's kind of interesting we talk about raising raising men yeah

you know especially for the guys the results were tremendous because then I look back at our um behavior referrals and different things like that a lot of it centered around being masculine in the wrong way in front of girls yep so we had a fight that happened in the room because a guy says something to another guy about a team that won and he didn't oh my team you know beat your team yesterday we talking about like pro sports yeah and a guy felt slighted in front of a girl

in the back of him that he liked so he had to say something back and then you had this so that's just one of a million examples in there I said we can eliminate that because we've all been in locker rooms you don't have those issues when it's just them guys in locker room no

you don't have it it's a locker room mentality hey I'm not fighting this guy we're good so you create I created that circumstance in the school put all the girls on the top floor put all the boys on the bottom floor and they went to lunch separate everything was separate that's brilliant and the the improvement for the guys was unreal I mean it just took off you had no more issues in the classroom yeah you didn't nobody was fighting because who you showing off for

nobody show off for it's just guys we just say let's learn and the same thing with the girls so it was really good so those were some of the things I wanted that I really felt strong about you know as well as some of the things we changed as far as the graduation requirements cause I had a lot of flexibility there and wow put some really cool things in place that really advanced the school so I was there that school end up closing um and then I went

and I was a principal at a elementary school okay so that was a that was a cakewalk you know I'm like okay I came from the high school high school with 1,000 kids to now it's an elementary these are young elementary so you know I went to this elementary school and you had to wear a suit every day which was fine I had to wear a navy blue suit sure and either a a um a white shirt with a tie or a powder blue shirt with a tie I was like I love that because when you talk about for me

kind of some themes and different things like that when I was growing up I didn't have stuff I didn't have those suits yeah when I played football and you had to we had to dress up for this I dreaded that

when it was our graduation and and homecoming stuff I dreaded I didn't have it was an embarrassment yeah so as I kind of got older you know and I kind of say this it's funny I said this to somebody a couple days ago I said every opportunity there is to be dressed up I'm first in that line take it and I'm gonna and I'm gonna be looking good so that's one of the things that you you talk about paying the purpose yeah those things back in the day was painful oh

I'll be hey shoot I come in like I'm all over this I got 60 suits sitting in there I'm like I'm good I'm never gonna I'm never gonna feel the way I felt as far as the way I presented myself and the way I looked ever again so those are some of the things I was really proud about so went to this elementary school did a really good job there and what was a jump off to coaching is a nice segue is at the high school although I was a principal I still was the ad okay

so I still was involved we had a bunch of sports teams yeah had yeah three or four basketball teams and so I was always that was something that you know scratched that itch that I had yeah yeah um I was helping you know I end up when we went to the elementary school I'm coming into that first year of the elementary school I my oldest son was playing Pop Warner football I went in with volunteering helping with helping coach that you know so but at the school you know

I remember going to the lady who ran the school and I said hey I got all these contacts you know in Cincinnati because I had all these teams when I was at that other school yeah I said let me let me just do a basketball team here you know let me I'm just trying to like man I'm and she said um

no she said no we just an academic school here she was she was cool she's like no we we just an academic school and at that point my mind had jumped into some other things because just to go back real quick at the other school we had a bunch of guys who got recruited coaches would come through the school and I remember a coach coming in and um when I I would show him around the school first cause I was really proud of what our school was before I took him to the football coach

so I was walking him out afterwards and he turned looked at me said you need to be coaching college he said you'd be unbelievable he said I'm just looking at the way these guys respond to you yeah you would be phenomenal in college football coach and I'm like yeah I wouldn't think I'm like I never even really thought about it yeah so fast forward to when she said we wasn't gonna do she said no I wanna do sports my mind was like okay I'm ready I wanna break off and do something in athletics

I think so many of us who haven't had the kind of background that you have um we end up achieving some degree of success in some field or something like that and then we start to get scared of losing it and you I don't think you have that I think that you've had to start over so many times in your life that if you need to start over like every time you start over you go crush it so alright I mean like that gives you the courage to be like no I want this other thing I want to be a running back

so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be a flanker I'm gonna be a running back and that's okay if I don't think I'm gonna fail and then and then and here you go again

you've achieved like all of this success and all this notoriety and you've really made such an impact exactly the way that you wanted to do and then but you can't coach no that's really not the recipe so I'm just gonna blow up my life essentially and go do something else and to have the courage to do that um after you've actually amassed some success is tremendously rare and that's really admirable and it's really interesting yeah it was it was as you know

cause I go into this field into education I would that wasn't what my background was yeah I subsequently get my you know I get a master's in exercise science when I'm running the sports academy thing and then once the admin the lead administrator died I had to get my principal certification so I went got my masters in education and got my principal certification I gotta say along the way obviously I got married yeah I got four sons yeah so that was my guys

those that's that's my that's my driving force we'll get into the sons I can't wait to talk so we get there yeah we go get there so yeah so I'm just excited about um the opportunity and so it's now like okay you you get to the end and now okay how do I get into college football so I happen to be talking to a guy who was a that I use as a substitute teacher when I was at the high school I just happened to be randomly talking to him one day and he told me

he was trying to get in the coaching at my Alma mater Miami of Ohio right up the street and um he said yeah he said I was up there and he said I didn't get the job he said but I overheard one of the administrators talking to the head coach

saying you need to get like an alumni on staff like a you know like one of the guys from the past really good players and I said I know somebody that sounds familiar that sounds familiar so I called him you know I think I text him I think I text the head coach yeah I never met him before I just text him hey Steven Mckella I had to hit I said I'm in the hall of Fame there you know um you know I'd love to be considered to be on your staff whatever so he called me the next day and he said

here's here's the job that I have and back then these jobs are just start they're rampant now but back then this was 2,011 2,010 2,011 these what they call quality control jobs huh so he called he said I got a quality control job and I'm like great you know so here I go I go from making $124,000 a year to making $521 a month I'm going there so so oh man you know definitely appreciative to my wife my wife was a special ed teacher we owned our home you know we have you know

different things like that so I told her I said look and and and you know I appreciate her cause you know I said look this is something I wanna are you okay with it she said well you need to do this she said because the last thing I want is 10 years from now five years from now saying I wish you just let me have an opportunity to go and try to do this right so I went and did it and here I am I'm getting coffee and running you know running you know making copies and stuff like that

and there's my picture on the I'm on the stadium you know this guy in the hall of Fame and I'm I'm old now I'm 38 39 years old just getting into just getting into it but I'm at my I'm a model yeah so um

was really embracing not excited about that um did that um for one season after that season the head coach um took a job at Pitt OK and um you're at Pittsburgh yeah and um he said hey you can come with me I said to do what he said to be a uh quality control I said nah I'm not I'm not I'm not doing that I'm not moving to do that he said so what are you gonna do then I said I'mma stay right here and try to get on with the next coach here or I'm just go back down the street

I got principal certification and the school the elementary school I was at they did not hire somebody they have been especially near the end of the season they was like you coming back you coming back I said I might just hold up let me hold up for a second we know here in a couple weeks and then the new coach happened to be who the new coach that they hired at Miami was my running back coach after Sterman Smith left to go to Illinois wow and he hired me as a running back

small world he hired me as a running back coach so again you get another opportunity to show how you treat people because if I was just a bad guy in his room he wouldn't wanna hire me what what am I hiring him for I don't care if he's a good place a bad guy that's right I don't wanna hire him as a coach he said there's no way I don't hire you as a coach so I'm a coach for what I'm a I'm a mother and I said you can't tell me anything I'm on the Mountain Top of everything yep

coaching running backs at my Alma mater and that lasted for one month hahaha so for this movie that we're we're talking about a movie right now yeah and I know I know something's coming it's either gonna be amazing or it's gonna suck like something is something is what which is it which is it

I gotta know so let's go back in time alright let's go back around five years to flashback to that coach who we walking out of the school where I was the principal and he turned back around and said you'd kill it in coaching man you should consider being a coach that coach had now become the head coach at Indiana University and that coach I never told you this that coach was also on the staff at Miami when I was a player wow awesome so here he is now he's the head coach at Indiana

and here I am just getting in the coaching and he said he called he said I don't wanna hire you because the guy who was the head coach at Miami they were on the same staff at Miami he's like I don't you know I went to Miami he's like I don't wanna do this to Miami yeah he said give me another few days I'm doing everything I can to avoid hiring you I'm trying not to hire you I don't wanna have to hire you and then he called he said I need the I need you I gotta I gotta do it

so I went to Indiana and um I was there the next six years we were you know it was phenomenal what happened there and all of the background that I had as a school administrator as a teacher obviously as a mentor all these things like I had perfected in my and that's not perfected I felt really really really really good over any of my contemporaries in recruiting selling a product different things like that because of what I did at that school for seven years so here I am going out recruiting

I'm like I had to recruit

to get people to come to a school that people thought was a school of bad kids yeah so you better believe I can get them to come to Indiana haha yeah I can go out and recruit do different things like that and form genuine relationships cause don't forget my driving force before I got in coaching was to help kids help guys see their full potential to form relationships yeah to be something to guys that I didn't have growing up so that was to to this moment that's my driving thing so

a lot of success recruiting a lot of success coaching you know coaching running backs doing very well there so I was there six years I was there yeah I was at Indiana six years and then I went to university of Southern California same thing great success you know with on the field and off the field and then I went to the Kansas City Chiefs I was with the Kansas City Chiefs for three years we went to the Super Bowl twice we won the Super Bowl and then after Kansas City um

I came back to college football cause I wanted to be a head coach um I felt like my trajectory was headed in that direction I came back and I was the associate head coach at Indiana for one season then I went to Notre Dame you know I would never thought I'd be at Notre Dame I went to Notre Dame coached at Notre Dame I was the associate head coach there had phenomenal success there as a team and as a position group and then this month this past season um with Los Vegas Raiders so

my whole thing with the NFL stuff was I said look I coach for a hall of Fame offensive coach and Andy Reed in the draw to come back to the NFL cause it was a bunch of I probably had 10 12 opportunities to come back to the NFL after I initially left yeah you know to come back and be under Pete Carroll who was a who will be a hall of Fame head coach but he's a defensive he's on the he's a defensive mind your coach yeah so to me it was all hey what is some of

a lot of these things I can do that's gonna ultimately make me a better head coach so these different experiences all contributed to that so bring me where I am now

you know here I am been married 25 years got four sons you know 26 23 21 and 9 wow what a range yes and so I I get this question a lot is is that too many sons would you have more if you if you could if you if you could be I I feel like I do because one of my things that that Coach Smith had always said and then I carried in my coaching is and I every every room I go into I say the same thing you may not be looking for a father but I'mma treat you like you my son and he said that to you he said

he said that to me a long long time ago yeah and then you know I after some things we'll get into here shortly that came back up yeah and I said I haven't been using that phrase but my actions yeah that's how it was with all the with all of the males with females too yeah but the males you know obviously I coach that was that was my thing with those guys I really those relationships and how I treated those guys and and different things that was very important to me

so what what's your relationship with with Coach Smith Coach Smith Ben all this time since you know you left Ohio are you staying in touch with him are you staying in touch with him for years right what how's that going so I so I talk to him a lot you know talk to him all the time when I when I went to the NFL so I'm with the Bengals he was at that point at that time the coach of the Houston Oilers so we kind of reconnected um on the field cause I was hurt then but me and him spent

we had a great conversation then we talked over the years he was on my resume as a reference yeah always talking always talking always talking and I did skip a part but it's interesting you bring it up so in 2,014 I was of course I'm the running back coach at Indiana University and Coach Smith I called and said he's the he's now he you know he was a running back coach in the NFL for 21 years so he calls me and says hey

um you wanna do an internship in Seattle he was a running back coach of Seattle Seahawks I'm like yeah that'd be great so I go down and just for some other reference let me go backwards to go forward real quick like even when we at Miami like you know people we're both from Youngstown and people used to always say you guys look alike that was like the running joke yeah you guys look alike you guys look alike get up you know alright so fast forward a bunch of years

that was in 1990 here it is 2,014 yeah we're over here with with the Seahawks and I never forget Pete was in um we were in a staff meeting and Pete was doing his thing and he kind of looked over he said you know what something's going on with you two guys man it was like he said we're sitting there watching you guys at practice and you guys walking alike pointing alike and we both kind of laugh it off like whatever I said yeah I don't know we're from the same hometown or whatever

he's like they're like nah you guys yeah it's too much stuff to similar man but it's kind of fishy like it ain't nobody thinking that kind of laughed it off and kept moving but yeah so through all those years always you know was always in touch with Coach Smith yes yeah I love that well so in 2,017 you embarked some laws changed and you decided to embark on a mission to find your biological parents right yes tell me about how that went so I'd always you know I'd always wonder you know

you know my deep voice is just whatever you know you as you kind of get older you wonder where those things came from and I know I've said it's been pretty well chronicled you know coming up did I wonder yes did I want to actively pursue it was too many things going on of much more importance in my life yeah then telling my mom I know hey there's a lot of stuff going on here we got this that we you know we got these other financial struggles but you know what

we need to go and find my biological family it's not happening that's not that's not the priority I wouldn't even bring it up you know and it wasn't really a priority yes I wondered but it wasn't so much that I'm gonna you know make a huge thing about it but as I got older I started have you know start having my sons yeah you know um start having you know and you go in there and shoot the doctor say give us your family history you know that started ringing hard yeah

I get to my fourth guy man what I don't know you know so you know I seem to I was in more of a headspace to wanna find out uh huh and then my adopted mom she had told me that in Ohio the laws had opened up adoption records that right there was the jump off yeah because then I called um the agency on Ohio and um they said well you weren't born in Ohio I'm like oh yeah cause I I you know I knew that I was born once I found out I was adopted this was way back when I was like 6 or 7 yeah

I that I was born in I knew I always knew I was born in Pittsburgh got it even before I knew I was adopted I just assumed cause Pittsburgh is only like an hour from Youngstown right I just assumed my parents were in Pittsburgh my mom had me in Pittsburgh yeah that's where the hospital happened to be yeah that's where the hospital that's where I happen to be you know but come to find out no you know I was adopted that's where so um there was a law so in in Ohio you can get the records

but my records weren't in Ohio that's what that wasn't where I was born yeah so I started digging and found out in Pennsylvania I knew I was born in Pennsylvania um that in Pennsylvania there was a law that was going through that was in process so that brings us to 2,017 2,017 I'm at USC I just got there I'm waiting for like we in the house and our furniture and stuff was getting delivered and I just jumped on my phone cause I would just Google it was I think it was there was a house Bill

I can't remember what house Bill it was now House Bill 78 or whatever it was so there was a house Bill and I would just Google it and see what's going on and I googled it that day and that day it had showed it had just went through wow I'm like oh shoot so I called whatever the department was in Pennsylvania and they said yes it went through and I said what do I need to do to get my stuff and they told me so I did the little application and I sent it off and I didn't think about

I completely forgot that was March yeah it wasn't till November of 2,017 that I was in my office and it just hit me that day like I wonder what's going on with this adoption paperwork mmm hmm like that day it hit me I wonder what's going on with adoption paperwork so I remember calling that department yeah the lady didn't nobody answered I'm like okay I go home and when I get home this is the paperwork is there wow it literally that day it was there so I opened it up

and it was called your original birth record which is basically like your birth certificate it was one piece of paper yeah I opened it up and it said um

it had on there um what my name was which I wasn't expecting that yeah it had on there John Kenneth Briggs wow and it had my mom's name on there and I and my adopted mom had always told me she said she said I don't know a whole lot about you but your your I knew your parents were young and it had my mom's name on there yeah and it had her age she was 16 when she had me I'm like wow I'm just blown away yeah so I jump on Facebook I don't know what made me go Facebook you know and I like

I'm trying to find her yeah you know and with none of these other things I I bring this up probably every fourth or fifth time I tell this story there because I was born in Pennsylvania I did my search in Pennsylvania of course and I don't know I don't even know what search criteria I used i'mma be honest with you I'm on Facebook and that night I found another person that wasn't my mom who was in Pennsylvania had the same name and was the age everything fit now I'm looking on her Facebook page

I'm like she don't necessarily look like me yeah but there was so many people of that set like her Facebook friends had to be like nieces nephews whatever and I'm like okay I'm somewhere in that spectrum yeah okay I could see it I could see it I could see it you know what I mean I could see it I could be in that spectrum so I sent that was um that was the night that I got the paperwork so that next morning I sent a Facebook message to her to that person and I said hey um

were you in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania December 1972 and put a baby up for adoption so I sent that maybe a couple hours go by get no response so I remember um calling my wife I said man I haven't heard anything from that person my wife said well just relax she said because if it's her she might be processing what's going on absolutely that's gotta be that's 45 years ago yeah so while I'm waiting um I just on my computer I just do a search I just put the name I never put the name in Google

I just put Carol Denise Briggs I just put it in Google yeah yeah just like why why didn't I do this I just put it in there while I'm waiting and another she showed another Carol Denise Briggs shows up I do some poke it take me like 5 minutes

I do some poking around like I wonder what the d stood for yeah because it's at Carol D Briggs yeah okay I said what does this d stand for and I did like another site and it said her full name and I'm looking there was a picture on it and I looked at her picture and like the picture of my family wasn't I look back I'm like cause look I like look look look but we might have a shot here she look a little bit like me this is you know what I'm saying like yeah this might be something yeah

so all I did is copied and pasted that same message same message yeah went on Facebook sent it to her and around an hour later my phone pinged and it said message read so I'm like oh shoot my heart beating fast and I sent her a question Mark like I did ask a question yeah she typed back yes and I'm like whoa so I get up and I walk out of the room that I was in and then I sent the message I said what did you name the baby and she messaged back she said not Dylan and I kind of chuckled and I said

what did you name him she said John and she had it spelled the same way it was on my paperwork wow J o n wow and I just started crying I'm like ah my bus stop crying and the secretary was like what's wrong she said you OK I said yeah I'm I'm great now I'm really good yeah so my mom was like what's going on what's happening what's going on and I said I gotta call you later cause we have practice uh huh so I called her later on and um just a phenomenal conversation I said I'm John obviously

and she's oh my god so you know we had a great talk I said where are you she's in Youngstown I told her where I live so we were 10 minutes apart from each other my whole life all that all that time in Youngstown we were 10 10 minutes away from each other um she told me I said how did you end up in Pennsylvania she said Dylan I was young she said um when my parents found out I was pregnant you know my mom had me sent to a girl I was sent to a girl's home for girls in my same situation you know

yeah and she said this was way back then she said you know I was sent there to have you she said you know she was really apologetic she said I was not I couldn't raise you I wouldn't I said I ain't mad at you my life was great yeah I'm like I said I mean everything worked out I guess we say it like that you know but but um so we had that she talked about that and I said well shoot you was in Youngstown I got any brothers or sisters cause Youngstown is small yeah you know

she said no I never I never I never had any more kids and I never got married or anything wow and then the natural and I just kind of naturally just going through the questions like taking my time I said well shoot like kind of matter of factly will shoot who is my dad yeah and she said your dad is a man named Sherman Smith and when she said that I almost passed out and she said what's wrong I said oh I know him and she said how and I said he recruited me to college he was my coach

and he been my mentor for 20 something years so and I said did he know and she said he knew nothing she said he was a senior on his way to Miami she said I was a sophomore she said it was just kids being kids yeah and she said it wasn't like we were boyfriend girlfriend she said it was she said it was just one of those things and she said you know he was you know for somebody from our area to be leaving and do what he was going to do yeah I didn't want to impact that negatively

and she said and I knew where I was at she said I wasn't in I I wasn't prepared to even be a co parent with with somebody right on on the on the child she said my you know my mom was still cleaning my room and making my bed I wasn't ready I wasn't prepared to be a parent I wasn't prepared to be a parent and I wasn't going impede on what he had going on so that was noble I said I get it you know I was I said but he don't know she said he has no idea so so you have to be thinking like

like what do you do what what's going through your mind at this point what what like you have to be thinking I I do I tell him do I not tell what how do I yeah I mean like all of the the the flashbacks of you guys look alike yeah you guys look alike we've been hearing that forever yeah when I went to Miami um there was like a a collage like a poster board I had a of like accomplishments from high school and then I had a picture of Polaroid of me and my dad at this point me and my dad

it was just me on my visit me and my dad on my visit to Miami and I remember when guys would come in

um into my room cause my dad was only there for that one season right so when I had this poster board up in my room my whole five years at at at um Miami yeah the guys would come my room and say man what's is that your dad nobody thought that was a coach right yeah they they knew coach yeah they they never known him yeah yeah they never known him yeah like and they ask you who's your dad no I said no I said that's my coach yeah because they knew it was at Miami

they could see that this is the locker room like other guys gonna like that's it no that's my coach yeah so I heard that forever you know but you know and then so those those my initial flashback like wow make sense yeah but then it was like a a level of pride because don't forget you when you go way back an hour ago when we first started this thing my sense of self yeah it was a lot it still is I mean it still is on some level those those shades are still there that still

but my sense of self was low and I just felt like you mean you felt the abandonment must not have been good enough nobody wanted me all these different things right and so even went to find you know then the sense of pride yeah went through the roof of me cause I'm like my dad is Sherman Smith man yeah this guy I mean come on the whole world know him this guy's he's unbelievable yeah unbelievable and it like so many things started making sense to me and I'm like that's where this come from

that's where I come from and then it was like so ironic and just completely ridiculous that you start thinking about um nature over nurture sure because I'm like we both from Youngstown now my dad he grew up with both his parents and all that I said here I am I'm I grew up across town completely different you know a rougher circumstance yeah by far yeah but in the end or as we went through we both end up at Miami how ironic yeah yeah about a bunch of people go to Miami what up right

we're both in a hall of Fame at Miami yeah both of us in a hall of Fame both of us leave Miami to go play professional ball both of our careers end cause of knee surgeries wow both of us after playing professional football going to education now I'mma tell you right now

I wasn't tracking my life to Sherman Smith right I wouldn't like what did Sherman do now I'm gonna do that next I'm just living I ain't thinking about what I'm I ain't modeling nothing I'm living life yeah but we both end up in education yeah our both our first college football coaching job after we both were high school coaches too are both college are both our first college football job Miami our next college football job in the Big Ten he went to Illinois I went to Indiana

wow and then we kind of laugh about this then we both become um professional football coaches both of us go to the Super Bowl yeah we both got Super Bowl rings both of us also lost to Tom Brady sorry Tom Brady Tom Brady your nemesis your nemesis and and and now one of my bosses how about that I love it yeah wow so all all of these things man so now I gotta tell him right yeah yeah that's him so what's going through your head there how do you how do you decide to do that

um so the night that I found out you know I'm telling my family and everything and you won't believe my dad is Sherman Smith what I mean there's all these so the next morning I'm like man I'm gonna tell him so I text my mom I said hey can I tell my dad and she said yeah you tell him so I kind of laughed about that yeah you you can be the one to tell him that so I text him and I said hey I said hey what's going on coach I want to talk to you about something

so he called back I thought he would text me back yeah that give me some time to get my mind together right he called back and I'm like oh man I ain't ready for this I didn't we weren't prepared for that conversation but I get on the phone and I say hey you know hey what's going on coach hey what's going on Dylan I said you know I said you know I'm adopted he's like yeah I I know you're adopted I said I've been looking for my biological family and my dad is really strong in his faith

he's like man that's you know yeah and I said I found my biological mom he's like oh my goodness man praise God and all this and I was like hold up you know it's another picture hang on hold up and I said um and I said it just like this I said I asked her who was I said my uh my mom's name is Carol Briggs and when I asked her who was my biological dad

she said you and it was like boom he was sitting there and you can hear him he's kind of talking to himself he's mumbling to himself and then he said I I do know Carol I know Carol and so I'm excited yeah like I'm fired up I'm like yeah cause this is a really exciting thing for you but for him it's a capstone for me is a like a super milestone for me and he was quiet and he I'm excited he said he kind of cut me off a little bit he said Dylan I need to get off the phone with you

I need to process this yeah so I'm I'm initially like miffed like man why is he so but it hit me in the and it was like maybe 40 minutes before we got back on the phone yeah and he's and and you know I'm like wait a minute he knew nothing so when I got on the phone with him he said Dylan he said you knew you had parents out there he said Carol knew she had a baby out there I knew nothing that's right it'd be different if I knew something I'd be like oh okay this I knew about this

I just didn't know the specifics so I knew nothing so he wanted to speak to her he called her had a great conversation with her he called me back he said Dylan I heard everything I got the whole story so I just want to be sure I want to be 100% sure and um um I said yeah let's do a DNA thing so we did the DNA thing in between that time I'm getting calls from my stepmom who I'm I knew her from recruiting you know my mom my mom Sharon she called me she's like look

y'all can do whatever y'all wanna do I'm looking at pictures it ain't even no conversation we wasting time yeah you wasting time but and she was very she was extremely excited and happy and supportive yeah and then what a week two weeks later the paternity test came back in 99.9% so we it it we went from there he called me I sent it to we've been we have been talking sure yeah like yeah every day from that point yeah and I it's funny I sent him an article from when I played in Canada

and it was a picture of me and I'm sitting there and he said Dylan he said this hit me so much he said I was looking at that article he said I seen the picture when you sent it and he said I was sitting up wondering where was I at when I took that picture yeah yeah he said just look he said I thought it was me yeah he said I'm looking at this like man I wonder why I did this he said

I'm thinking he said I thought you were sending me one of my articles he's like I'm reading looking at this like wait a minute where was I when I took that picture cause it was he said that's me sitting there so um everything went you know paternity test and he called I sent it to first I I emailed it to him and then he called me he said alright let's go let's do it you know so everything you know just kind of built from there because we'd always talk we had a great relationship

yeah that's right you know and it just it just went to the next level so what was it like I mean the first time you see each other after yeah what was that like what what are you feeling what is how does that go yeah and it was phenomenal I mean so I'm at USC and um I said first I want to you know I'm out recruiting and I I kind of structured my recruiting to get to these spots you know so I wanted to go to Ohio I said man I wanted to go and see my mom you know so um

I go to see her and that was really I mean it was really special cause you know we get caught up in this thing and everything with with my dad that's that's a phenomenal coincidence God story unbelievable right but man I was fired up you never met your mom either yeah fired up to meet my mom I mean come on you know and and so I was I was extra fired up and I remember going there and um she knew I was coming and everything and I and I got there and we just look at each other

and I'm like it just was like wow it's like he was looking in the mirror yeah and my uncle was there because my mom was like hey here's you know here's my brother and then because my mom was like I don't know who you're my son but I have never met I've never been around you yeah and maybe like 10 minutes later she told my uncle you can leave it was almost like we get this guy ain't crazy or nothing is he and she was like around 10 minutes later she's like I'm good this is my son

I'm good and we just like embrace and I kind of just holding her hand it was just like I mean it was like really really I'm emotional and bonding and just like man it was it was magical that that was really strong you know so got a chance to spend time with her and then two days later I'm going to I'm recruiting in Tennessee my dad lives in live right outside of Nashville so I pull up you know on the street and I'm I'm and my dad he's looking out I can see him looking out down there

I mean I'm sitting in the car I'm like yeah I'm like ah man let me get myself together here yeah I don't met my it's not like I ain't never met my dad I mean I know him as Coach Smith right so but I go walk in I go up and I knock on the door and I didn't expect him to do this and it was pretty emotional and strong again another strong movie clip right here yeah and um he opened the door and he just opened his arms and said my son you know and me for me I'd never had that reference

that's right yeah you know you know especially from somebody who I really really admired and loved and and you know and and um appreciated and respected so man it was it was that was strong that was strong it was it was it was really good I love that reaction I think that is just that is beautiful yes sir yeah I you know in the in the movie the curtain goes down right and it's that's a beautiful movie but in real life you have four boys of your own yep and I don't I'm so interested to know what

you know in a lot of ways your hardships and your the way that you had to grow up and the abandonment that you felt in some ways and and all of that forged who you are they were a chrysalis that that that made you great but you also didn't get the benefit of a lot of you know relationship with your father your mother all of these things there's this tension here that you must feel about raising your own boys you want them to I mean you want them to have achievements

you want them to feel the triumph that you felt at the same time you know the way to you're not gonna deprive them of of you know that's not the way to get that so what yes tell me about how do you bring this into raising your own boys into men and and how do you think about that and how does that how is that informed how you've done that well just to take like a half a step back even with my dad in the toughest part for my dad you know in this kind of bridge a bridge to this right here

the toughest part for my dad is he said I know how you grew up I knew I know also your dad but I knew from recruiting you I knew from the I went to your your place I knew so that was the part that was crushing to him yeah later on to say man and for him to say man God had to have his hand in your life he said because he looked back that's the part that was cause he knew this guy had it rough yeah and I'm his dad I come to find out I'm his dad yeah and if he was under if if I was his dad

those things likely is it those things he experienced he could have done different things it wouldn't have happened I was his dad it wouldn't have we wouldn't have been in those situations right you know I'm saying you know I I can strongly say I like I wouldn't have been in those situations yeah so that was a that was a tough part for him I can imagine looking back like man yes I'm so glad that my son turned out the way he did but man I know cause I was I seen some of the things you know

and from recruiting them and everything it was rough yeah but to go to my sons you know to me that's a perfect segue into kind of pain into purpose you know for me because forever from my onset and sitting there and hearing some of the things that I heard again I don't blame my mom it just life was life you know yeah and some of the circumstances that was going on I used to just sit there and be up at 3 o'clock in the morning or whatever it is and just seeing

and hearing some of the stuff that I heard and like my driving force was I when when I have kids they're my kids will never feel the way I felt they'll never feel the helplessness or it whatever it was the the list of emotions are are vast yeah they'll never feel this way I will make sure that my kids don't feel this way yeah you know they will not have No. 1 No. 2 they will not have a disconnect from their dad yeah I'm not my sons you know and now here I'm with four sons

like it's the ultimate blessing for me I would I'm don't care what's going on my sons would never feel the way I felt they will never feel any helplessness they'll never feel lack of belief or confidence from their dad they'll never you know um feel any emotional disconnect you know I'm gonna go I was for years all the way up until I had sons that was that's my driving thing yeah when I have the when I have kids this is the type of dad that I wanna be

this is the type of dad I wanna be and I was like like driving probably more than anything of what I was gonna accomplish as an adult yeah yeah you know that was to me that was that's my crown jewel accomplishment and it's still an ongoing thing of the relationship I have with my sons you know it didn't have to be that way you could have used it as an excuse exactly exactly I hey I I have terrible examples so hey guys don't hold it against me and they know

you know I had a rough and these guys knew that they knew but you but they knew and I would let them know where this level of over love over intentionality where it's coming from I didn't have that yeah and I'mma make sure that when it's all said and done and my son who's 25 26 years old he ain't gonna look back and say man my dad was like half stepping man he ain't he really said that was overly on like man this guy was like you know really want me to be my best yeah like

really wanted me to be the best I could be and was really like there for me and and help me and guide me and all these different things he always was there for me he made he was overly there for me yeah yeah yeah or wife there so yeah five men in the house we had that when I was a kid we there were four of us boys and and of course my dad we only we didn't even have male or female pets our our cats and our dogs yeah both my dogs are even boys both dogs are both dogs here are boys yeah

your poor wife yeah but yeah so I mean that's I know you have more questions but that that was my thing you know is I just wanted to make sure that my guys you know had a level of comfort as it related to with their dad yeah how their dad would would show up in their life how do they how do they experience that how do they feel about that do you think what is their you know I mean like it was somebody there was like we had this movie show me the father uh huh and they actually interview for the

by the king's brother but they didn't use my son's pieces but they had asked the guys like what is it like growing up with your dad and all this and I wouldn't sit in there in the back with Q cards like hey we didn't even guys I wasn't even in there you guys and it was really strong what they say you know all the things we learn from our dad you know teaches us respect and this hard work and all these different things the things that the dad that

any dad worth his salt will want to hear from his sons because you you putting so much into them you know and and trying to you know be the fine line of look I'm trying to instill some things because there were some things I Learned from that hardship you know there's things I Learned from not having electric there's some things I not that I Learned from the adversity that I had to deal with so you you know you you gotta balance that cause I want I wanna raise well rounded men

yeah you know what I'm saying and the thing for me I've been able to build a life that these guys didn't have to experience some of the things or live and it mean shoot we these guys live real good you know what I'm saying yeah these guys live good you know what I'm saying so you still you know I'm still you know I keep them grounded and everything that your dad has and that they have you got through hard work uh huh you got work you got work you got work you got work and all my sons

they get that they get that you know and you got work to get you got work to get you got do these things you know so they understand it and they and they see it from living it cause they seen it with me they like my dad ain't sitting up some type of charm life just living up they see how hard you work it's I gotta go get it you know he gotta he got things he gotta overcome there's adversities that I'm seeing to my dad he gotta deal with he gotta overcome stuff you know so you know

they see these things and I want them to grow from it too and they see look I ain't perfect you know but we talking about you know perfection versus intention you know or intention over perfection as relates to my sons my intention is to be as perfect as I can be for them guys and like I said I want still a long time I mean I sit up at night with some of the stuff you know where I was seeing examples of guys that I didn't want to be yeah and I was building my

my mental resume and building my mental reservoir of won't do that won't do that I'll be the I'll be on the other side of the universe of that action yeah I'll be on the other side of the universe of belief on in what in my sons I'll be on over of patience uh huh and and want my sons to be the best that they can be and and they'll never walk away saying my dad he kind of short changed me on that no no yeah you have this library of counter examples in your mind

you learn so well from counter example it seems exactly yes I love that I like I I like to uh finish up these interviews by asking I'll put you on the spot here for for a moment and ask you like if you if you could share just one principle just distill I don't know all your your your your knowledge or or you know it doesn't even have to be it doesn't have to be an all encompassing principle but if you could share one principle about what it takes uh uh or what helps to guide you in

in in raising excellent men um what would that be or being an excellent man yourself yeah I mean like I said and I use this in football a lot too you know it is not cheesy it kind of is what it's kind of a road it's a roadmap I use for football and for life being detailed dependable and disciplined so being detailed and you know what you're supposed to do so we talk about football okay I know I'm supposed to do this run here whatever you can say it I know it I know as a

as a young man or as a father or as a husband or what what I'm supposed to do you can say that dependable you apply those details consistently so if I'm supposed to do these things work this way pay this Bill whatever it is it's so many the the the the balloon I mean that umbrella is is unbelievable and to me the last one is the most important one discipline I'm dependable when it matters the most so you've created a criteria for how you wanna live your life and even in the rough times

that's when it mattered the most yeah are you that's how you know when the rough times come on do you do the thing or do you not because that's how you know are you own you know I'm saying and and and it's a it's a nice road map and or the guardrails and sometimes you I go crashing over the guardrail that's life but if you if you kind of frame it to me when it when it's framed that way you know because the details are hard work all these things there's so many

there's a million things under each of them but it all start with the details you gotta know first and that's my job as a parent or as a coach or whatever give these guys the tools to give them what they need hey man this is this is the detail yeah so you can't say man you undisciplined undisciplined about what undisciplined about this I never knew the detail right yeah I had I didn't I didn't know what the thing was I didn't even know where to start yeah I had I didn't have it to start you

you hold me to the to the discipline aspect I never knew the detail that's right I never had a chance to be dependable cause I never knew the detail right so it all comes back to those things you know so I'm consistently perpetually trying to give the detail mm hmm whether it be from my own experience yeah or their experience the detail the detail the detail and then holding them those guys and myself to be independent I'm not applying the details on a consistent basis yeah and then again

when the rubber really hit the road hardcore you know forking the road or crazy stuff or whatever hey man is your discipline you know are you on top of it when it matters the most when it matters the most so those are the things right there and and to me all the stuff hard work every every sub category falls under the initial detail yeah the detail of being a whatever you know I'm saying these guys want to be so yeah yeah one of my one of my principles is is that excellence is failure

the only way to achieve excellence is to is to constantly fail and then just fail less and less each time and and the only way you can know whether you're failing is to know what success is and that's the detail yep exactly and then you know the rest of it is being consistent and and and yeah having the no know what the values are and then go execute them is really what it's about and and like I said what I gave you is like a compressed right all encompassing to me

cause it kind of could cover everything yeah it covers everything and I tell them that's and you're just your regular you know just everyday life football everything being a brother being a boyfriend all these things I said man when you come back then like God you know you you quickly I knew what I was supposed to do I knew it I knew what I was supposed to do and I knew I was you know I did this so many times but I didn't do it when it mattered it mattered yeah I didn't on this on that day

on this instance I didn't do it but to but having that chronology of how it goes I mean it's it's something that it's really been beneficial in football been a been a official off the field too it's the same principle it's the same yeah it's the same so you know I I'll I'll tell guys you know even on the spiritual side even just in they dealings with guys I say man you either are you a blessing or a lesson so you're you're a blessing or a lesson you know if I'm you're a lesson I'm

I and I think of all them guys the the some of the stuff that I that I'm not proud that I was around and experience yeah and and them you know them you you may look at it like no them guys were a burden them guys were a disaster no they were a lesson yeah that's right it was a lesson yeah so I always tell my mom that I said look you know she'll reflect back and she's really apologetic about some of those things whatever I said nah I said first of all it worked out yeah

now if I was sitting in jail writing a jailhouse memoir yeah you'd be like what the heck talking something different maybe we have a different conversation yeah I said but no all that stuff just gave me the other perspective and it hammered it like thousands of times hammered in my head what I wanted to be as a father yeah what I wanted to be as a father so and that same father aspect again when you talk about my players and people I run into you may not be looking for a father

but i'mma treat you like my son that same overflow goes there so I love that and that is a beautiful place to end it Dylan Mccalla uh is the running back coach for the the Las Vegas Raiders and the co author of the book runs in the family uh absolutely absolutely strong recommendation to go look at that and man I want this movie to come out my friend please please make that happen I can't wait for it thank you so much for being part of raising men the the name itself

I had to jump in when I seen that I'm like I'm in well I love it thank you this can't go anywhere I appreciate it I hope we can stick in touch I hope we can keep in touch no doubt I appreciate you and to all our listeners and all our viewers thank you for joining us for this amazing discussion remember that you are a great parent

raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino