From Dudes to Dads: Redefining Modern Fatherhood with Eli Weinstein

you won't let me feel what I feel hmm and I was just like blown away by this here's this four year old kid and he's got more emotional intelligence than I do like recognizing like I just need to feel this for a minute just you know stop making me not feel it yeah and then if you wanna joke about it later you can right right it's not like don't have a sense of humor or joke around and if that's your way of handling things okay but he was just saying like give me a second to feel it

we'll joke around later yeah welcome back to raising Men today's guest is Ellie Weinstein he's a therapist an author and a relationship expert who helps men show up better as partners and fathers he's the host of the Dude Therapist podcast and the founder of elevation where he brings empathy humor and real talk to conversations about mental health and connection his new book From I Do to we do helps guide couples through the emotional transition into parenthood Ellie

thank you so much for joining us on Raising Men thanks for having me you know I'm so happy that this podcast exists because I don't think a lot of men have ever been raised the right way and taught the things that they need to be taught and you opening these conversations and having these things is so iconic especially in today's world so I'm super thank you for that you know I'll tell you I I haven't been taught what I need to be taught and the whole purpose of this podcast is really

partially my journey to go figure out what excellence means in this in this category I recognize that the the world that my son is going to graduate into is so fundamentally different from the world that that I did that I grew up into that it's just the my reflexes are not tuned to what he needs in order to be able to thrive I love that I love like the the uh funny selfishness of but also like hey I need to learn and let's go and let's let's make something happen about it

that's exactly right I might as well do it in public yeah well tell me you know so your your book is perfectly suited to this conversation I think what tell me about what inspired you to write from I do to we do and what gap are you hoping to fill for new parents or people in relationships yeah um what inspired me is a publishing company asked me to write one um I OK I hate writing and it's just funny saying that now that I'm an author um how afraid I was

and depending on the day still I am writing I'd rather have a TV show a podcast speak in front of thousands and millions of people on a stage than write a tweet thread Instagram blog post or whatever so it was more of a publishing company I'm telling you I'm the exact same way oh I hate it you know why cause with speaking to me it's off the cuff even though I prepare my brain works quickly with my ADHD that I can come up with stories I can connect things and I'm in that flow state with writing

my grammar sucks my ideas are great how it connects and flow and does it speak to the reader it's very static there's no tone there's no energy you wanted to be professional but you wanted to be like like there's so many other things with speaking my tone my energy you can feel it yeah yeah there's a there's a feedback loop exactly that happens that you get from the audience or even just if you if you're just speaking one on one there's a feedback loop that you get

and you feed off of this other person's energy we're writing they feed off of yours it's there and that I have no feedback except this book sucks or wow that really helped me yeah um but uh it was really like a conversation with the publishers who who I guess they found me through my podcast and this that and the other thing and I noticed that there are not a lot of crossover books of parenting and relationship at all there's one book I think in the 80s called Crib Sheets

that really combines the two and to me it's secretly this book is 80% a relationship book for anyone and everyone yeah 20% through the lens of being a parent that is what it is and it's the basic foundational things that I do every day with couples and individuals focused on relationships

I throw individual stories of my marriage um stories of the craziness of having two little kids yeah and also the therapeutic stories of my practice and to me it's just this combo of things hit the fan so fast when you have kids yeah and for the most part your relationship falls to the wayside because you're in survival mode of raising a human being that cannot do it themselves right and we don't really focus on the relationship and keep that thriving when it is possible

but we're just so damn tired and we're just so overwhelmed and we're at each other's throats and all these different things that are coming together at one point and this is the book for anyone in that stage where there's like quiet or even very loud noises in our head going who the hell am I sitting next to or how did we get here or what relationship who the hell has time for that yeah that is the this is the book for you and again secretly it's an 80% um

relationship book for anyone and everyone but I was asked to make it a little more specific and niche or nishade as I say yeah and hopefully everyone enjoys you know I'll tell you I wish I I wish I had this book that's what everyone tells me years ago when my boy was born because I my wife and I we were it was I don't know how else to describe it it was agony we were at each other's throats constantly we just were not a team yeah and what we ended up having to do is literally I

we sat down and I said OK you and I have to come to an arrangement and the arrangement is no matter what will not get divorced before the boy is at least 1 year old like we know the the our lives are so different now from what they were two months ago and literally a year from now they will be so different again yep and we just can't be making any sorts of like this feels unsustainable to me and we can't pretend that that we just can't draw that line over into infinity yeah but and so

and it and it actually caused a problem because when the boy was about to turn 1 my wife was sort of starting to get upset she's like oh we're gonna get divorced now no no no that wasn't the deal that's not what I meant I didn't say we are but we're not going to unless by a certain point ha ha yeah and I know and and I I start the book that way by the way the book's introduction is literally one of the hardest fights my wife and I have ever had in our marriage we've been together for 11 years

one of the hardest fights we've ever had was the our anniversary during the first year of our daughter's life yeah where we live I I know and I've maybe other couples have done this it's not that we don't fight we get into fights all the time I'm talking all out screaming I'm talking sleeping in another room we were in a hotel yeah

like I've never argued that hard in a public not that it was in the lobby but the walls are pretty thin in a hotel room yeah we were at each other's throats screaming we lost it and it was over something so stupid I wrote that I don't remember cause I didn't wanna write it but it was over like who to go to for the holidays that year like it opened up this can of worms because we did not communicate we were so overwhelmed and we did not know how to talk about it

without stepping on each other's toes I was going through panic attacks I was going through anxiety that I never experienced before um it's actually a thing that most men don't talk about or even isn't talked about is the postpartum anxiety in men it is very researched in women it's not very researched in the father um but it is something very very common and over the last couple of years of the work that I've done in my private practice I've had men who are in their thirties to high 40s

who finally come to therapy and say but on their own not pushed by their partner who say hey Ellie this isn't working I wish I had you in my life earlier I should have called you in my 20s I should have dealt with this I thought I could handle it and I can't or life has changed and I need to adjust and I don't know how I need to pivot to new skills I don't have them the things I used to do worked now aren't and it's such an honor to be able to do that with people

but at the same time I need it myself and that the book was me kind of telling how I worked through it because I was not okay and I don't think any couple really is and any couple who says oh we're fine after having a kid when literally not even two months three days before your world was different is lying it doesn't mean that you everyone's getting divorced once they have kids but it definitely pushes buttons that you never knew existed it's such a strain it's such a strain

why do you suppose that men struggle with vulnerability and asking for help the way why does it take you until your 30s to to finally go man I can't take this anymore why why do we why are we like that uh such a loaded question and it's so so hard to answer like in a podcast and I write in the chapter from dudes to dads um I did some research on it and there's a there was a new book that came out after I already submitted like all the information and I can't really touch the book anymore

it's like it's done it's out of my hands right a boys to men oh um not the band not the not the acapella group boys to men and I forgot who wrote it the author I have it upstairs in my bedroom it's on my to to read next yeah um of the really the social research and the science behind how men have been raised over the generations the what I and my research and the work that I've been doing with with a lot of people um is the envision Sparta right the movie Sparta where the guy yells like

this is Sparta and like kicks the guy into the well right every single culture has had tests right whether it's certain cultures that have the bees on the hands or a bar mitzvah or a baptism whatever religious or even cultural of going out into the wilds back in the day or kind of coming of age story of being tested yeah we don't have that so often nowadays and we don't know what it's like to really be tested or pushed to be challenged to what it means to us to be a man

what it means to be masculine what it means that we accept what that means not what society defines not what's toxic I hate that toxic masculinity concept it's so ridiculously and stupid because just because someone has intensity doesn't mean they're toxic um there is quiet toxicity that happens most of the time but that's might be a whole another podcast in which I'm more than happy to talk about on those on that note there's I don't think there's such a thing as toxic masculinity either

it's I think there's just really bad men there's shitty behavior and then there's masculinity

and those two things it can't be more opposite than each other but once they started phrasing it as toxic masculinity what it did is it attached masculinity to toxic that's right and that's the problem because there are masculine women who are not toxic and there are feminine men that are not less man masculine and so this idea of this pressure of vulnerability is this uns this safety issue of if I'm gonna open up and be my truest self how will you accept me because I've been told by society

or culturally over generations that I have to be the warrior the protector the the strong one the loud one the if there is danger in the house who's going downstairs with the baseball bat or gun it's the man right and you do you in your relationship if that's how you want to do it but the point is that there is this intensity of the strength and power and it has been taught that vulnerability or openness or emotions except for anger or happiness is accepted

and it is something that is very pervasive and a very hard thing to relearn when you have been taught now depending on when you grew up whoever's listening if you grew up in the 80s and nineties if you were off or you were not accepted or you were not masculine you were automatically called gay or something's a problem with you being gay is not a problem with you it's just like but that was a that was a slur like oh you're so gay why you're not you don't fit the box that we as a society

or we as the cool group of men have decided yeah

but in reality there's a spectrum of who you are as a man and some days you show up one way another way you show up different way if you and the beautiful thing of nowadays I know I'm going on a rant here but a beautiful day nowadays is that you see such of these strong athletes who are the epitome of power a football player running 20 miles an hour ramming into another human being a UFC fighter right saying hey I'm gonna show a picture of me as a dad and be smiley and laughy and jokey and silly

I'm gonna be vulnerable and say hey I'm having a hard day I need to take a day off like that is happening as well today and those things are proving and showing men around the world be yourself what is today what is tomorrow are totally different even within the same day you have different roles and different opportunities to be your truest self and it's relearning that as a society and it's happening just slowly there's something that's really beautiful about

bringing your struggle out into the real world yeah and there's something that's really empowering about that too and I I mean it's like one of the metaphors that I like to use is who's the stronger boxer the guy who has an impenetrable shield or the guy whom doesn't need a shield at all and you can just whale on his face and it doesn't affect him Rocky you know which one of those literally Rocky right right Rocky was the guy who took all the shots right and took it took the beating until he

the other person got tired right that's the whole all 50 of those movies yeah right was him getting beaten to a pulp and then the last ability he had was the strength the power was I can take all these hits and I can show that I can bleed but guess what you're gonna tire out cause when you get tired I'm jumping on that opportunity and then you have the other boxers who were like you know the fast step

you know or the pure power but had their you know and of course you know it's just a movie and based on someone maybe but uh yeah and it's it's such a it's such a beautiful experience to be able to to be yourself yeah it's it's cause I've worked with so many men who are trying so hard to be something else yeah that that that pressure is what breaks them not not the feel not the vulnerability if they actually just let go and and were themselves they wouldn't feel so tight

they wouldn't feel so angsty they wouldn't feel so angry they wouldn't feel so obsessed with that I need to be for other people if you were just yourself there would be this breath or space to just live your life yeah but what we're doing is they're putting on a show and protecting and being so so oh my gosh who am I now who am I now who and it's so in their head that they just they burn themselves out and then they crash yeah it it's you know it's like we've been told all our lives

maybe even for generations uh to to man up right but Manning up what that envisions or what that elicits in your mind is closing up yeah and you know putting your guard up and and you know struggle through it and and shoulder the Grindstone but you know the real Manning up the real masculine move there is really to open up and there's nothing wrong with with being tough yeah there's no problem with seeing a problem and looking at it and not freaking out and standing there and going

here's how I'm gonna here's how I'm gonna deal with it right but it's also okay to also get freaked out and then think it through and figure it out yeah like that's okay too it doesn't mean you're cowering in the corner as people envision the joke I always make with uh like the in the vision of what people think like having emotions are is a very famous scene in friends with Bruce Willis and Rachel and uh Jennifer Aniston and they're dating and Jennifer Aniston asks Courtney Cox's character uh

Monica like hey I wanna open up my you know Paul I think his name is I don't know how whatever and she gives her some secret and the next scene is literally Bruce Willis on Jennifer Aniston's lap just bawling like a baby and she can't handle it she's like I didn't ask for this and everyone thinks that that is what the envision is that once we start opening up and being vulnerable that we just won't be able to control it I think that's the fear right yeah that is that our strength

is in being able to hold all that stuff in and if we and the fear of the other person going I don't like that yeah no no no put that back no no no no that's ugly don't do that again yeah how do you suppose we keep that virus from infecting our sons I think by two things maybe three depending on where my ADHD brain goes today um the first one is you doing it yourself right kids learn by watching not by being told they really just soak in like a sponge everything that's happening around them

so how you love your partner how you show emotions hugs kisses uh tushy squeezes whatever your love language is however you wanna show it that's a beautiful thing for them to see that you have emotions No. 2 are you gonna show the emotions to them are you gonna hide it like if you're crying are not that you should be like look look I'm crying right yeah but if but if you're crying and your kid goes hey dad are you okay and you're honest with them saying yeah something just made me sad

or I'm really frustrated or overwhelmed you're not putting that burden on the kid and saying I need you to fix it that's unhealthy but being honest about it is teaching them that look dad has emotions and I saw them and then the other thing is how you talk to them about their emotions so if they have an emotion it's not saying hey stop crying grow up my son is three and a/2 yeah him crying about something that bothers him is hey bud what's going on why are you so upset talk to me yeah

it's not stop crying it's I wanna understand why you're crying cause that's okay yeah or you're hurt now there is a thing with parents a parenting about when a kid falls saying are you okay or not right the answer is you're gonna be okay I'm sorry you're in pain right but you're gonna be okay yeah it's not get up wipe off you know your your body and and keep moving grow up yeah so the words and how we express it how we talk to them teaches them the value of their emotions and feelings

and helping you understand it and them understand it is part of that equation and uh hopefully that clicks and in the end it's not up to us they're gonna do what they wanna do with it you know yeah you know I I had an experience like that with my boy going it was about a maybe a year or two ago and in my in my family we always use humor as a shield yeah right and I remember you know the worst thing worst thing that ever happened to me was was my mom dying of cancer when I was 21 years old

and I remember making a joke five minutes after it happened uh huh and so like two years ago I was my my son was having a really hard time with something and he was and he was very upset and I started goofing around with him and started making jokes and stuff to try and get him to laugh yeah and it was my way of like I I couldn't handle him being upset and so I I was trying to make him laugh to get him out of it and that's cause that's what I do right and that's what I want to do

and that's what I want other people to do for me and he says to me he starts laughing and I said and and and he and he says he says dad stop

you won't let me feel what I feel and I was just like blown away by this here's this four year old kid and he's got more emotional intelligence than I do like recognizing like I just need to feel this for a minute just you know stop making me not feel it yeah and then if you wanna joke about it later you can right right it's not like don't have a sense of humor or joke around and if that's your way of handling things okay but he was just saying like give me a second to feel it

we'll joke around later yeah yeah yeah and so and I mean I like that I I like the idea of being able to connect back and there is there is a strength in being able to joke about your foibles and joke about the the awful stuff that has happened to you there's you know there's some of that too but as but avoidance isn't a good strategy yeah and certainly like training him to avoid feeling sad is not right it's not good yeah that's why like you know a lot of people when they're

they're raising their kids a lot of a lot of parents myself included are all about distraction right if a kid gets hurt you go you know like you make a funny face you do a silly thing or or when a kid's upset or a baby you try to distract them right but like that's for us yeah cause we want them to stop so I don't have to feel bad that you feel bad yeah or like I don't wanna listen to you crying right so like stop it yeah yeah it's a great story and so that's

that's one of my little demons that I have to that I have to work through is is you know and but you know he's he's pretty smart kid he can he can teach me yeah clearly that that's a yeah I remember once my daughter she was learning about like emotions in school or something I don't know she was in daycare yeah and she came home and she like patted the like the couch next to her and she goes daddy come let's talk about our emotions I was like aren't I'm the therapist

what are you doing you're a kid daddy I wanna talk about my emotions I went okay awesome I love that I yeah I would yeah by all means let's do it yeah let's do it yeah I man that's great what do you you know what else can we do to create a home environment where we welcome emotions and and we we we don't shut them down and and all of that stuff how can we as as fathers try and create that environment yeah and I think I think it's having a game plan with you know your your the home right

and the the the the the partner I I do this thing with a lot of couples and I I was taught this by a a mentor of mine his name is Josh Goller and it was the idea of like something called the Import Export List and what it is is sitting down with you can do it with a friend if you want if that's the kind the relationship do with your wife your husband whoever it is and you sit down and go OK for this home for this unit what are the imports and exports that we want to keep as like guidelines

home rules whatever it is yeah some people the export is no slamming doors in the house that is an export right that that that pushes me in a ways I don't like an import is we want our house to be open friends wanna come over people knock on the door that are our friends or family welcome like we're not gonna be like what are you doing here what time is it get out of the house yeah of course boundaries and respect but that is part of that conversation is how do we want to raise our kids

don't do it before you have kids cause you have no idea what the hell that means um it's all theory and that's nice do it okay there are theoretical things like don't hit your children and don't and then you get to laugh at yourself a year later about what you wrote we thought we were gonna do this haha you're like what we were gonna not use TV um that is insane um it's okay to watch TV your kids are not gonna be ruined just do other things also um but like the import export is a but

it also opens a conversation between the two people where like what the culture they grew up in the maybe religious things that they grew up in maybe the perspectives that they were taught about emotions feelings um how to think and and and and go through the world so it is a beautiful thing to go oh you know here's how we deal with holidays or you know stress before guests come or the environment and culture that you grew up in sometimes becomes the norm

and another person goes that's not healthy no one does that except for you guys I'll give an example when growing up travel was very stressful my mom would get very intense about packing we would start packing like a week before when I got married and I was with my wife and I like okay we're gonna go on a trip I started getting all tense and angsty and she's like what's we're like I'm like two weeks out what are you getting antsy about like I don't have a problem flying

I don't have a problem you know going places I love going and enjoying the world and traveling if I can yeah my wife's like what's wrong I'm like I don't know like I've never thought about like what do you mean like she's like are you worried about packing I'm like yeah I I overpack because I try to counteract like not having enough like I'm like oh my gosh it could rain um and she started making packing lists and it took all the anxiety away because I was like oh I have a clear thing

she's like yeah it helps me be organized and then we have it together but it's because of my the environment of my childhood of packing equals intensity yeah so we had a conversation about it so these things will come up

so tip use pencil on the paper don't use a pen so you can you know what's pencil no one use a pencil anymore but the idea use a digital media right use a digital or Google DOC right or apple note is just have these conversations and when situations come up that you don't agree with or rub you the wrong way yeah have a meeting with each other go hey not in the moment don't call each other out in the moment yeah that's a good way to not have the fight too right yeah just remember hey

what happened there let's say that's the Sunday meeting like yeah why is that something that you think is you would do oh well you know that's what my my dad didn't like that when I did that in the house and just came out yeah oh well I don't really like that I don't like seeing that in you that's not how we want to raise our kids oh I didn't think of it that way or no I like this because let's figure out if that's something that fits for both of us right

or come up with a way to make it fit for both of us yeah there's some principle here that we can probably agree on yeah exactly yeah you know I feel like that's a really good way a really good practical way to give the kids agency in their lives too is incorporating them into that discussion and have it be a family meeting alright as a family we're deciding to focus on these things and it's not imposed what worked this week what didn't work this week yeah like

and of course we gotta take it with what how old they are and how you know but if a kid's like 8 to 10 years old they have very clear thoughts of what they like and don't like they're not like a 3 year old kid who just likes my son likes dinosaurs and cars like that's all he likes yeah right or candy exactly but like that also means what are you gonna do on the weekends yeah you can ask them it's not well daddy wants to go watch football for 80 hours and we're you know we can't talk to him

if that's how you do it do you no judgment um but have a conversation talk bring them in if there's a buy in to the home yeah and it's a buy in out of respect not you're doing chores and free labor but a respect for the home for how we do things the enjoyment the love the happiness it's not all perfect in unicorns and daisies of course but they're bought in and it's exciting they're like oh I matter it's not just mommy and daddy yes mommy daddy are making the rules

and mommy and daddy keep the chaos and and control but I have agency within that framework I'm not just going along to get along because mommy and daddy make all the decisions and again the kids are not making decisions they're children but it's yeah they can they can partake and giving up ideas to the board yeah right like the thought the thought boards like oh that's a good idea great job you know you thought that's a wonderful idea and they're like oh me thank you yeah right

that's that's wonderful yeah so much of I mean when I watch my son I I I can see the tension in him there's so much of his life is this tension between wanting to be independent and wanting to be connected and I mean sometimes you know it'll it'll happen where he's screaming I just want love like like I mean you you you are at the same time pushing me away and then complaining that I'm I'm not next to you and um and I feel like times when you can get that it's actually pretty easy for us

at least in our family to to create that connection we're very physical we're we you know my boy and I wrestle all the time we're like we're it's it's that's not a problem for us but the independence bit that that is a place where it can be a little bit harder especially since some of the stuff oh I just wanna watch YouTube for six straight hours and I really don't want them on YouTube and so it's places where you sort of get the independence for free

I always perk up when I see opportunities like that yeah I love that and then and things and things change you know like a lot of parents think when they first become parents that they have to like be on top of their kids playing with them all the time yeah and there's nothing wrong with like play with your kids like enjoy time with them yeah but my point is like it's okay if they're in the other room yeah playing by themselves and enjoying life I don't need to be in the same room

for them to be happy right they can be like we have a playroom in our house there are days where I'm like where's my son and I look in and he's like he's just sitting there playing and talking to himself and having a good time he's being a beautiful child I don't need to then go in there and and and play with him right and then get frustrated that he I'm not playing the way he wants me to yeah like it's okay yeah like embrace that it's wonderful so it's so beautiful to watch I wanna actually

I wanna drill down a little bit more on this dude to dad transition what is I I felt this absolutely I mean that was an absolute cusp for me and especially since for me I I kind of had kids later in life and so I had a whole life and it was established before my boy came along and then it my life was totally different you know literally 30 minutes after we walked in the hospital pretty much yeah and so let's talk to me a little bit more about what that transition and what's

what's the difficulty and what's important about and how should we think about that yeah I think the difficulty for a lot of men is the idea that they're gonna lose their autonomy and their individuality they're gonna be like something's gonna be a problem that all of a sudden now they're not gonna be able to be themselves they're not gonna be able to have fun they're not gonna be you know go out with the boys yeah right and I remember I had a client a couple years ago

like this was one of the reasons why I realized this book is so important because of this client and he said like Ellie I'm gonna lose all the the things that I love to do uh huh it's gonna go away I can't do it anymore and I said this line and yes it's there's it's deeper than that and there's like a classic therapy line but I was like you're not losing yourself you're adding a layer like it's not deleting the fact that you wanna go snowboarding on the weekends it's not taking

away the fact that you wanna go to the gym or read a book or go play sports or hang out with your friends or have time with your wife yeah it's an added layer

that now the priorities are shifting and that's extremely uncomfortable for everyone so it's okay so maybe I can't go seven times a year to go skiing or snowboarding I go twice yeah and those two times are gonna be awesome and iconic'cause I'm doing it at least I'm doing it it might be that it transitions to now you do it with your kids and you're teaching them you still get to go it's just now shifting again a different layer on top of it it's you with your kids yeah and there's this

this concept in relationship we're called um interdependence which is you your partner and the connection of the two yeah you're not losing the individuality just because you get married right one plus you have to find ways to prioritize it and to make it a reality and that's a conversation of hey you know Tuesday nights I still wanna have poker night with the boys great I wanna go watch Bachelor Bachelor red upstairs right you both are doing your own things and at the end of the night

who you ending up with your partner it's not like you're just like leaving and being gone it doesn't mean you can't go hang out with your family it doesn't mean you can't do things that you value it's how you then mix it into the priority shifting it's still top 10 it just not top one anymore you are not top No. 1 which is extremely uncomfortable people to admit that that's the that's the strain it's like oh wait it's not just me it's not just my wife now there's a little child

that is a blob that I have to worry about and focus on but what about me and that you feel pushed out your priorities and values feel pushed out so it's just like okay they're still top 10 they're still top five I just have to figure out the rotation better I have to I figure out I have to adjust and pivot the rotation smarter now so that I still get my needs met but I'm not deleting me and the other things matter too and that's the uncomfortable shift that happens yeah and

and but the benefit you get for that cost is that you now get to experience the world a new through and all the stuff that you're passionate about and all the stuff that you love if you love to go snowboarding seven times a year and then you start bringing your son or daughter you get to now experience that hobby through their eyes completely fresh it's like starting over from scratch again and falling in love with the the the activity all over again it's yeah

I literally recently just had this experience I love hockey hmm I didn't say I can play hockey I love watching hockey and I I watch when the hockey season's on hockey's on the TV uh and for me my my son and daughter going let's go Islanders seeing the TV guess what the Islanders are not on TV at that time but they see hockey and they associate it to daddy's favorite team and cheering and that energy and it brings me so much joy and my son literally said to me goes daddy

can I sit and watch hockey with you yeah and I'm like yeah come on my lap let's snuggle and I can and he's asking these questions right and he wants to go to a game with me and he wants yeah that's exciting that's fun I'm not losing loving hockey I love reading books my daughter loves reading so now I'm reading to her now I'm not reading the books that I'm reading because they're huge chapter books and they're not appropriate right but like you can share joys and happiness with your kids

and if they don't like the same things that you do you can still like your things but now you get to see the happiness and joy of the things that they love and they like and that's what makes you happy

yeah and you can actually start to enjoy the things that they like you will start to enjoy them anyway yeah because they are happy I uh my my son he's only 6 and he's decided that he wants to play golf which I love that yeah I do too but I am a terrible terrible terrible golfer we all are I it's in fact I find that golf it's just like an exercise in frustration it is purely in fact I I remember watching I remember watching Tiger Woods have a bad round one time and I watched

it was in person and after he got down he stomped off the 18th hole uh the green on the 18th hole and went over the driving range and he was just like hitting the pitching wedge over and over and over again he was so frustrated and he was talking to his caddy and all that stuff he was clearly just absolutely totally pissed off about how poorly he was playing and every single one of these balls was landing he was hitting his pitching wedge and they were landing about 120 yards away

within three feet of the pin and he was mad because it wasn't two feet and I was like yeah I know exactly how he feels yeah except for me it's you know I can't even hit the ball the I can't even hit the ball and this guy's mad I mean it's just never changes you are never ever not frustrated when you play golf except for that one hit every day one every time you go out you get that one hit and it's absolutely perfect you feel like if I just practiced eight hours a day

I'd be able to do that every time yeah it's a lie yeah I get frustrated with golf also cause I'm like I know I can hit a baseball that's moving yeah I can hit a pickleball I can do all these things that are moving targets right but a ball sitting static I cannot freaking hit the damn thing to save my life I can't even hit it and if I do hit it I don't hit it well yes what the hell and it's so frustrating so frustrating it is the worst well my son is getting into it

and now I'm starting to get into it yesterday we went to the golf store we got him some clubs and he's all excited about going and I'm starting to get fitted for clubs and I'm starting to get passionate about this game that I hate I love it yeah but now but now you hate it together but now you hate it together yeah yeah now we can just be frustrated together yeah so tell me how can listeners connect with you and dive deeper into your work uh or or or your book from from I do to we do yeah

so the book is on pre order right now anywhere you buy books it is available to buy you can find it on my website Ellie Weinstein lcsw.com there's a tab for the books all the pre orders there is a if you pre order and email me you get a a kit of like a parenting kit that I send you awesome some like basic things and worksheets to do with you and your partner um so go there uh you can follow along on Instagram Ellie Weinstein underscore LCSW and you can check out the Dude

Therapist podcast as well and all the different things that and I'm doing and if you want me to come out to your area speak to anyone that's on the website as well awesome well the all of those links are in the show notes and so so definitely take a look pre order the book and and definitely email Ellie he will yeah I I love the kit that's that's definitely a nice sweetener there oh thanks for having me now let's before the the last thing I like to do when I when I'm ready these conversations

I like to ask everybody the same question so I'll put you on the spot feel free to take as much time as you want but what is one principle that you would like every parent or future parent listening to take away so I have a motto that I live my life by

um that my grandfather taught me my mom taught me something that is very integral to like who I am as a person is that if you never try the answer is always no yeah so read books listen to podcasts ask friends advice if you never try the answer will always be no so that means send that email sit down with your kids talk to them if you just sit in that state of no I'm not gonna do that or it's not worth it or it won't work or it will never happen yeah of course it won't right

but if you try something it could be a yes yeah you might still get the no yeah but it also could be a yes so just keep trying cause yeah I find I mean certainly within my own life I have so much suffering relating to stuff I'm convincing myself not to do and and and suffering about what could happen if I do the thing I wanna do yeah it's insane the amount of suffering I have associated with that most people and there's no yeah yeah and there's no sense in it I mean it it it

it holds you back yeah I get doesn't mean the answer will be yes yeah but then you can tell yourself that you did your part right and you know what and and you can live with that if I think back on my life I I I can't think of a single occasion where I did the thing and regretted it and I can think of lots and lots of occasions where I chickened out yep and I still regret it to this day yep I'm with you five of them come to mind right now just as we're talking having this conversation

five of those things come to mind yeah it's crazy well Ellie thank you so much for being here man I uh I love how you're helping dads redefine strength and and lead with with presence um especially that chapter dues to dads is such an important guide for men stepping into fatherhood the book I'm so excited for it

I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing to to help us all show up better for our families really appreciate you coming on the podcast thanks for having me and thank you all for listening I'm Shawn Dawson and this is raising men you are a great parent raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino