Fathers Who Heal Lead Better: Dr. Michelle Watson on Raising Connected Dads

you stayed regulated and then you co regulated so the only way a dysregulated child

can get back on course they have to have hopefully a parent who can regulate with them to get cause then you asked her question so she could get out of here back into her prefrontal cortex beautiful interesting welcome back to raising men Doctor Michelle Watson Canfield is a national speaker author and licensed professional counselor with over 30 years of experience helping men become more connected and intentional fathers she's the founder of the ABBA Project

a forum for dads of daughters in their teens and 20s and the host of the Dad Whisperer podcast alongside her husband Doctor Ken Canfield she co chairs the Father Daughter Initiative at the National Center for fathering her best selling books dad here's what I really need from you and let's talk have equipped thousands of men to bridge the emotional gap with their daughters and in the process heal their own wounds welcome to raising men Doctor Canfield

I'm so glad to be here and you can call me Michelle hey OK I will I will call you I will call you you know what you worked hard for that title so I'll call you Doctor Michelle how's that I know how much work that is so Doctor Michelle this is a this is a real treat we were talking about the the podcast is about raising men but the focus of your work has always has also been about has always been about daughters

I'd love to understand what is similar and dissimilar about that so what first opened your eyes to the unique dynamic between dads and daughters and how did you get into this well you know I've I've been mentoring and kind of coaching young women and teenagers since I was 19 I'm now mid 60s so do the math that's a long time over 45 years which simply means I'm old I mean I once heard Oprah Winfrey say the best invention of the 20th century guess what hair colour ha ha ha ha you know what I

I can see that I can see that I look much older if I went grey but anyways I digress so anyway so I've I've invested in teenage and young adult women for a long time in different roles and then when I became a professional counselor in my late 30s really where I've dialed in is is with women young women teenage women and I'm the oldest of four daughters so I've really a lot of estrogen a lot of being on my planet of Venus and so when I was 49 I I begin to realize that

so many of my counseling clients if you trace back what their issues were or are

even currently it's often a father void where dad missed filling their love tank or connecting with their heart or a dad wound where there had been injury and so whether it's emotional sexual spiritual even spiritual abuse those kinds of things and so one day I was actually reading my Bible at Christmas time and read about this guy named John the Baptist who was gonna turn the hearts not the heads of fathers to their daughter and the light bulb went on I went

I think a lot of men don't know how to turn a heart and men are really good at turning head their head which I say men we need your mind you help us help us fill out fast as for college or specs on a car to get the best one and read a map and I I know that's a little gender stereotypical but still I'm saying by and large I want to affirm men always and say you bring gifts to the world that we as women need and yet this whole idea of turning a heart is something that a lot of men

I've coached and counseled and been with at conferences and I write to them they'll say yeah yeah that's not quite my strong suit I don't even know what that means and so in January of 10 after kind of that aha moment about the heart turning I emailed 11 dads whose daughters at the time were my counseling clients in their teens or 20s and asked these men many of whom I'd never met how would you like to join me once a month for six months to see if there's a change in you

your daughter or your relationship and guess what Sean I bet they all said sign me up ten of the 11 said yes we ended up going a year wow and I never had any curriculum I didn't have any idea of where I was going but every month I just wrote it down I know this sounds like promo but really I'm just saying dad this is a resource for you I put all of that into this book and I wrote it in Martian right I flew to your planet they're all really short chapters

they're like two pages that's a whole chapter I've been men go perfect I read two chapters last night I'm like rock on I wrote it with that in mind so men could feel like they accomplished something but really I did that for 10 years in Portland before moving now to Arkansas but I continue to do dad daughter Friday blogs I've done that since 14 wrote a second book I speak at men's conferences

I coach men so I am I'm passionate like you are about equipping men to lead yeah oh I love that so much I think what are what do you see as the similarities or differences between how dads need to show up for their daughters and how dads should be showing up for their sons you know much of it is obviously the same you're the same man true with with your same history with your same triggers with your same assets and liabilities right like you're all still the same you so in many ways

showing up for your kids means showing up for your kids being present is the present it's the gift right but at the same time and you have a daughter and a son and you and I were even talking before this recording you're like it's different yeah every man I I can't think of one I've ever talked to who has said something other than

it's different yeah and what I love is that many men say it's almost like a different portal to my heart uh huh sort of activated or opened up with a daughter it's just different and so that's where again I want to equip men with different skill sets to be more dialed in at a heart level like I said about heart turns to their daughter's needs because think of it men you either we're married to a daughter you're going to get married to a daughter you were married and aren't married anymore

to a daughter and maybe you still have issues with that you know baby mama cause you you still are interacting with her and she's living out of her father wounds in fact I've asked at men's conferences recently I've asked this with my Ava Project Dad's group give me a show of hands how many of you would say the woman you're married to were married to either way has dad issues yeah most of the time almost every hand goes up yeah so I'm like men why do you not want to put time investment energy

into learning how to raise your daughter and your son who will be relating to women throughout his life why not learn a skill set as a dad of a daughter that will benefit you with all your relationships because being more soft more tender more emotive better listener that will make you a better man

by what you learn in pursuing your daughter's heart but it extends to all your relationships yeah the metaphor that uh that occurred to me at one point in time about this and I'd love to get your feedback about this is you know when I grew up it felt like masculinity was about strength and it was about projecting strength and it was almost like we view ourselves as a castle and masculinity was about how thick the walls are and how tall the walls are and how impenetrable the walls are

and so essentially you're bragging about how no army can just can can break into this castle but almost by definition in order to be that strong the castle walls have to be very very small and they only can encompass this tiny little building of your castle and wow that's great you have this these impenetrable walls surrounding this tiny little castle that really can't do much and nowadays I think our eyes are opened up to the fact that it's not about how thick the walls are

it's about how big the enclosure is what you really want is the walls to cover as much space as possible so you can have villages in there that thrive and that means by necessity that you're gonna look at the way to be a man differently you are going to the walls have to be smaller they have to be they have to encompass more area they have to be farther out they have to have more fertile land in there what do you think about that metaphor you know it's interesting

when you first started talking about that Sean my the thought that came to me which I don't think necessarily lines up with your metaphor but I was thinking about the like I think every person has walls but I like how you're saying maybe it's more communal but I think even individually we all put up walls when we don't feel safe and so I I was thinking more like individually every man what are his walls look like and if a if he has a drawbridge from his heart to his daughter's heart

she'll know she can approach you at any time and your drawbridge will go down and that's what I was thinking when you were giving that metaphor yeah yeah I think yeah I think that's right I think that's right you know I one of the things that you've written about that really resonated with me is that men often freeze rather than fail and so I'm wondering how do you find that men are best able to you know move for that like like you you you have your daughter come up to you

and she's freaking out or or she's she's seeking connection and you don't know the best way to bridge that and so you freeze how do you how do you think about that how do you get around that yeah that's a great question let me first say the phrase that I've often said to men I've written about it talked about it just so I can take what you just said it and put it in my words which is from my now almost 16 years of traveling from my planet of Venus to your planet of Mars

so I'm bilingual I speak Venusian my native tongue and a bit of Martian sure is here's one of my observations of Mars and Martians is that often men would rather do nothing than do it wrong yeah and you men are smart enough to know when you're making it worse a daughter's having a meltdown you're trying to help she gets more angry more upset more emotional and you're smart enough to go you know what I'm gonna back up back up back off and let mom go in she's a girl she'll do better no no no

no that's what I wanna talk about the freeze here in a minute but so yeah because the signal that you're sending to her is I'm not here for you for that totally you're too much when you can calm yourself down then we can have a valid conversation or then I'm approachable so that's the drawbridge if you will going back up right yeah you figure it out then I'll be here but so what I want to say to you men is so again men would rather do nothing than do it wrong but you know what

you're smart enough to know that doing nothing actually is doing it wrong so I I found a lot of men that I've coached dads will say I know I'm not doing it right but I have no idea what to do different and so that's the piece that I say

I wanna help you do it right cause I know that's what you want and think about all the action figures that you loved when you were little who was your favorite Sean Snake Eyes from G I Joe okay there you go would you have liked Snake Eyes if he didn't take action no that was the in fact Snake Eyes didn't even talk okay but he moved he took action he got it done so if if you're as a dad you as a dad wanna be a hero to your daughter to your son you have to take action

and I think this bridges over to to the freeze response which is actually something in our nervous system where this is the middle part of our brain where we have a emotion and when we get really triggered is the word you know

pull the trigger it's there's a loaded gun when we get triggered emotionally we we flood it's called this prefrontal cortex which is where we think and have good reasoning and judgment and make good decisions yeah we go offline and so a lot of us myself included Anger's been one I've dealt with a lot in my life it's kind of a go to for me but that anger response often then men you're flooded and it it may not look like you're in freeze that you're more in fight or flight is the leave

freeze is you just don't know what to do or say and then fawn is the last one which is more like you implode and just give in alright a surrendered posture so on the freeze that might be some of the men go I don't actually freeze I go into fight sure or some of the men go I go into flight I'm just out of there I'm not even gonna fight anymore cause it's not worth it I'm out so that's your own history in forming your response man yeah that's your own stuff so again

to be a proactive dad is where you're first of all mindful that that's what's happening inside of you I often say ask yourself zero to 10 what number are you right now be honest about your own activated nervous system yeah and so if you're stuck at an 8 9 10 it's always old stuff it's always your own history even though it seems like it's your daughter or your son that pushed the button cause think about it when you're driving a car if you have a red light come on the dashboard

you could get out a hammer and go I hate red lights I'm bashing

I'm gonna destroy the red light yeah destroy the red light or I'm gonna get out of the car and unplug the wiring because I don't like being signaled yeah but wisdom says you lift up the car you know the hood of the car you look inside at the wiring to say what's going on that needs attention what is the signal trying to tell me it's the same with your kids so it's it's legitimate if you have a freeze response I would guess you probably Learned that in your childhood and yet

being mindful of that is the first place to start No. 2 I've got some tricks up my sleeve how to help a body calm down do you wanna hear those you'll have to get out of the freeze okay do you any of you remember I'm gonna ask you Sean do you remember when you were a kid did you ever do going on a bear hunt where you tap on your legs going on a bear hunt going on a bear hunt I'm not afraid did you ever do that you know once or twice but it wasn't a central thing okay

but okay so think about it says I'm not afraid cause I got my gun meaning I've got something to self protect right and then it says can't go under it can't go over it can't go around it gotta go through it such wisdom in that childhood clip so anyway with this what you can do to calm yourself when you're like freaking out you're like I've told you 50 million times not to put your shoes in the doorway I just got home it was a stressful day I walk in and I tripped and the dad

you use the dad are like how many times am I not gonna be heard in this house yeah and you you overcompensate right by maybe getting angry yeah when if you trace that you're like OK yeah I'm not my best right now that yeah I'm at a 9 okay you can do the going online you can tap on your like it's called bilateral stimulation like we do in REM sleep it's back and forth right left our eyes go back and forth yeah to calm ourselves go for a walk before you blow

you gotta go like get yourself grounded like yeah you can do this is maybe sounds maybe feminized but it isn't it's a skill it's a ladybug breathe in blow out like

you gotta calm yourself and get the oxygen mask on you first so that you can be the dad you wanna be to your kids yeah the the metaphor that I like to use for for that is we have two different brains in us right you've talked about that the prefrontal cortex and and and the limbic system yep and so the the Olympic system is like your Conan so the the limbic system is like your cone the barbarian brain and you need that to fight the saber tooth tiger or

you know get out of the way of the oncoming car and it's the place where the emotional signals are the meaning right the the the fear that happens when you see the car coming you don't have time to inspect oh what is this fear trying to tell me about my deeper sense of being or whatever it is it is oh my gosh there's an oncoming car I have to grab my kid and jump out of the way and then the prefrontal cortex is like your Sherlock Holmes brain and in our modern world the vast majority of the time

you'll get better results and have a better time and have a better life if you stay in Sherlock Holmes brain but everything wants to drop you into that cone in the barbarian brain everything yeah and and so this the the going on a bear hunt thing is a way when you recognize oh this is this is getting I'm dropping myself into Conan brain now I need to get out of that and and that's a that's a good technique to get you back into Sherlock Holmes brain the fact is that I literally have never

in my entire life I can't think of a single time where I acted out of Conan the barbarian brain and that was the right thing to do I can't think of a single time and maybe there are some where you know you know I was reacting to something in the road or something like that with my car and I I don't have visibility into it but but certainly in interpersonal relationships

going on the barbarian brain makes things worse absolutely you won't regret waiting to respond till after your midbrain that limbic system has cooled down yeah so think about when your kid was 3 you give them a three minute timeout yeah if you're 5 you give them a five minute timeout if you're 45 you need a 45 minute you need a 45 minute time out for your for that corner of the barbarian brain to calm down and anything you can do with right left hemisphere movement go for a walk pace in the room

tap your legs bringing that nervous system back into somewhat of an equilibrium you will be the dad you wanna be where you are more regulated because you all know this but more is caught than what so they're watching you and I think sometimes it can be a bit of a mixed message when a dad is saying to his kids calm down stop being angry stop fighting but yet you aren't yeah you're yelling at them calm down yeah you're not giving the same directives to yourself so right just a reminder here okay

here's some practical ways that you can calm yourself so that you do speak in love and do speak in the way that aligns with the core of who you are yeah yeah I think you know and then we're not taught these techniques to get ourselves out of cone and brain and in fact when I was young it was almost like it was virtuous to be in Kona Brain because again that was being strong that was being a man and I think what we're learning now is that no what's virtuous is to recognize the signals

that are coming out of Conan brain and to incorporate them into your and you know apply your values to them and then act intentionally about that and and do the Sherlock Holmes thing as opposed to as opposed to what you know just acting as if the signal was the meaning exactly another way to think about it is in in this body of work called Dialectical Behavior Therapy DBT maybe some of you've heard of it but they have two circles that overlap uh huh and the left circle is the emotional brain

and the right hem the right side is the rational brain but where they overlap they call it wise mind so it's more of a wisdom stance where you're your best self when you incorporate both sides yeah yeah I can see how I can see how that's right and sometimes what you what we have to remember where I talked about if you hit an 8 9 or 10 it's your old stuff meaning what just happened flips the switch on that's on the wall but it's hardwired behind the wall long before that moment

so when we hit a big number and it seems like it's they're not listening to me they never put their shoes away or I've told them to stop fighting or I asked them 10 times to do that chore like how many more times can I I wanna be a great dad I want to train my kids to be responsible and right do their chores and get along and so what's getting activated in in you I would guess what might like if you trace that back where does that tie to my family of origin was I heard in my home

did my voice matter and I get that this may be getting in the deep end of the pond like how do you look at your inner world well I coach dads around the country I'll I'll walk with you if you want like helping men understand their inner world where their emotions are coming from where their responses are is so fun for me because I watch men becoming the man the dad the husband the the manager he wants to be when he understands himself more yeah there's a real feedback mechanism at work there

isn't there so you know as you improve one aspect of your life that goes to improving other aspects of your life and so you know you're gonna improve your relationship with your daughter or your son and that's gonna help you be a better man at work and that's gonna help you be a better partner to your wife or your spouse or whatever and and so there's a virtuous cycle there yeah absolutely and I think you know back to what you'd asked about what's different about raising a daughter than a son

yeah is think about daughters I mean even the research shows like that that women have 11% more neurons in their brain attached to hearing and so sometimes men are like

where'd you get that out of that to a wife and a spouse a partner a daughter and we're over here going how could you miss it it was so obvious and and it's just missing each other and so it has a lot to do with genetic wiring and so if you as a dad can understand your daughter more that's why I've been doing now for nine years podcasting and radio and writing to dad since 2,014 going OK I'm gonna try to take what I know on my planet and help you know what maybe no one's told you yeah

and so because of that whole language thing again Louann Brizendine wrote a book called The Female Brain there's research on what women are like different than men right and we tend to pick up on cues and facial gestures different than men we're like I don't know that you're listening if I can't see your face and men are like I don't want to see your face shoulder to shoulder orientation is how men often feel more comfortable again gross generalization

but when a daughter is reading your face and saying I don't know what you really are saying or that you love me or you mean it if I can't see your eyes and so being mindful of that you're developing a new skill set because your daughter needs your face she needs to know not just what you think but what you think of her she's internalizing the messages that she reads on your face that you may not even know you're communicating so this portal to your to your daughter from your heart to hers

is also gonna require a lot more listening by and large than with your sons she needs you to hear her because on Venus we figure things out by talking sometimes we're like and men you know there's the book you know the one where men are from Mars women are from Venus where that's right John Gray says

men go into their cave and they'll think it and come out when they're ready don't go after them and then they'll tell you what they think or what they Learned or what they wanna do I'm telling you for the most part when we figure it out by talking is so men sometimes as a dad you may say I can't even track with you I don't even know what you just said right if you tell me what you want then I'll do it yeah that's right just give me the instructions and I'll go yeah and we're over here going

I don't know or I would have told you that's right but yeah figure it out by talking so we call that expanding your window of tolerance that sometimes men you may say my ears are bleeding there's so many words because again in that female brain book she says but men speak 7,000 words a day women speak 20,000 almost three to one three times wow and so women are are going I don't know what I'm talking even introverts have their own way of communicating yeah so they're still talking

and so for dad you do expand your capacity to listen two ears one mouth all these skills that your daughter needs that will make you a better man even to your son yeah I had an interesting experience about that this very morning um I was this morning I was very rushed and we got up the whole family got up a little bit late and we had some early morning um things to have to do and my daughter started screaming at my wife

and my wife said to her I I don't want to be screamed at and she left the room and I was getting ready and uh and that kind of set my daughter off she got at first she was defiant and then she got very upset because and she's 3 years old she's 3 years old yeah yeah and and then she started saying nobody loves me nobody loves me nobody loves me wow and I went over to her and I and I kneeled down and I I looked her in the eye and we call her Mo that's her that's her nickname and I said Mo I said

I see how upset you are and it seems that you're upset that that Mommy walked away from you is that right she says yes and I said do you understand why that happened and she said no and I said well what happened when she walked away and she didn't remember and I said well remember that you were screaming at her and now you're screaming again and that is that working and she shook her head and I said let's take a deep breath together and we did that and she sat on my lap

and I said what do you think we could do in order to connect with mom again and she had no idea and and I said well you know we could try this what what how would you feel if um if somebody were screaming at you and that made you feel upset and you needed to walk away and she said I would feel bad and and you know what would help you to repair and she said well you could draw me a picture or you could give me a hug I said or yeah you could you could also apologize couldn't you she says yeah

and you know it got us into this solution mindset but we weren't even able to get there until after we connected yes yeah and I you know I I don't I don't know what occurred why it occurred to me to do that and it and but it really really really worked phenomenal that Sean that story if that's the only thing men take away from our conversation it will be worth the listen because you modeled I'll give it psychobabble words just to validate cause you obviously no more than

than many men I speak with to refer to the prefrontal cortex Olympic system and repair rupture and repair right those are all words in psychology but what happened what's your daughter's name uh we call her Mo Mo okay so we'll go with Mo yeah so she was disregulated yeah that her her limbic system was on fire yeah so remember all of us we don't want to be in that state a lot of times we don't even know we're in that state I think it's really interesting

we're learning a lot from a three year old today cause what you did with a three year old to work with a 13 year old sure well a 30 year old yeah this this is brilliant this is wisdom this is gold that you're giving these men to say you turned toward her you got down on her level your voice was calm I'm guessing yeah absolutely absolutely so your voice wasn't raised you stayed calm so your daughter was disregulated you stayed regulated and then you co regulated

so the only way a dysregulated child can get back on course they have to have hopefully a parent who can regulate with them to get cause then you asked her question so she could get out of here back into her prefrontal cortex beautiful interesting yeah I didn't I wish I had I wish I had that level of of intentionality about it it just it felt like the right thing to do at that moment maybe maybe it was because you and I were gonna be speaking later on in the day and

I was channeling some of the lessons I've gotten from uh from reading your work and and uh and preparing it was phenomenal that was that well done and I love to I just want to highlight that when you asked her do you know why Mommy left she didn't remember so that's what happens to a lot of us where where we don't remember when we're that on fire in our brain it it floods this and we we we can't put it together so you helped walk her through alternatives

so if dads are listening that they're saying how do I raise good men how do I raise sons to to be their best masculine self which is strong and courageous and brave yeah and emotionally dialed in and emotionally engaged is that you LED with both sides of your brain together and then she followed your lead well I'll tell you a couple of things about that so my reflex in that moment um when she was screaming and yelling was to scream and yell back stop screaming right

and that that was my first reflex another reflex I had that I had to kind of suppress

was when she told me that she didn't remember what she'd done I didn't believe her ah I thought it felt to me like she was action acting on purpose she was yelling on purpose to try to get a rise out of me and and to get a rise out of her mom she was doing all of that and she was refusing to admit that she remembered what she'd done she was refusing she knows that apologies make things better and she wasn't acknowledging that and it felt to me like she was lying

but she wasn't I don't think I don't think so either and it had I had to get over that I had to it it often feels to me when when they're getting disregulated that they're acting intentionally which is insane when I'm disregulated I'm not acting intentionally I don't see how a 3 year old is gonna be acting intentionally in that moment and yet I respond my my my reflex is to respond as if they were acting intentionally it's insane it is insane so in other words

the three word phrase perception is projection is your perception was she's not telling me the truth and then that can be projected on to someone else whereas back to this skill you listened you asked questions of her and you listened that is part of co regulating right because you slowed down took your we all have presumptions that we bring into into relationships and conversations but you were my and it this was all how long did this whole thing take from beginning to end more than 5 minutes

7 minutes 7 minutes to make a deposit into your daughter's life yeah into her heart space to go I'm heard I'm seen I'm loved I'm guided I'm held which isn't always physical it can be emotional yeah to bring her where you wanted to go and you LED by example I mean come on well I I hope I can have the presence of mind to do that more often I I often feel like I mean I felt really good about that interaction and how it went and I I do not think I feel that way

about 10% of the interactions I have with my kids that's fair I'm in the same boat I mean we all are human right but at the same time your podcast is about investing in men if they don't know where to go to ask for directions you're like I'm gonna come to you I'm gonna bring this to you let me even add another practical action step so the dads you can be an action hero that springs off of what you just shared is you ask your daughter questions now some men are not

naturally skilled in knowing how to do that

so that can add to the freeze I don't know what to say yeah I'm clearly gonna make it worse I'm out but then would you have ever in a million years or your wife would probably be broken hearted if she knew that Moe felt she wasn't loved right like we as women I would say men read lines women read between lines we're reading into everything and coming back to I don't feel enough I don't feel loved I don't feel seen you know but you never as men think that even would have been the message

you would have given by walking away or some mom walking away but that's how it gets encoded right so here I want to go back to this skill set that I found is really helpful do you remember in school I think it was grade school I can't even remember what grade where we Learned who what when where why how yeah we all know that that was something we Learned about how to ask a question right so dad here's what I say is take that template you already know it and now apply it to the keyword

or the last word of your daughter's sentence so when sometimes you go I don't know what to ask next I don't know where to lead this conversation let me give you an example because you just heard Sean say he naturally intuitively LED her through this what do you think was going on why do you think mom left the room I don't know so I say use why the least because it's often a why I don't know but again she's three of course she doesn't know but probably 13 she's not gonna know either or 23 or 33

but going back to this idea of how do you ask a good question men who what when where how are the ones you want to use the most with the keyword of the last sentence so you could say honey what are you feeling right now maybe just start general she's clearly having a meltdown what's going on see we're talking about using your voice your dog's using your voice okay is it a her or him a female or male or the boy my dog uh is a boy and his name is chicken

okay so chicken he fits with your with your population how do you raise men to use their voice in a way that doesn't park yeah he's thrilled to use his voice he uses his voice a lot more than I wish he would haha which is what a lot of dads actually say about their kids I wish you would just shape up not use your voice not talk back not interrupt me like yeah well fathering it's expanding your capacity for all the mess I mean I've had to do that now that I have a big tribe that I married into

five and a half years ago yeah got married at the age of 60 for the first time that's amazing now our 19th grandbaby's on the way so Ken says your house was so organized and clean before now it things are broken scratched he says yeah kids come over and they bring communicable communicable diseases there's a mouthful and they break stuff and then they expect you to pay for it that's kind of the trifecta of parenting or grand parenting right so okay

I digress back to this who what when where why how but yeah why use the least so then when you pair that with with whatever she did just say or if it's a lot of words and you're like I have no idea where to go with this go with the last word because there's no right or wrong way to do this right so say that you're you pick up your 7th grade daughter from school and you go how was your day and she's like she had a bad day so she's like fine you're like oh OK so you men often are like OK

I wanna make my women happy I don't wanna make it worse I don't wanna get my head bit off what do I say next yeah and so you say what about your day was fine how was it fine where was it fine there's no right or wrong you're like oh I got a tool in my tool kit my fathering toolbox I can pair the word with what she just said then maybe she goes well choir was good today what about choir was good today she then knows you heard her yeah because you could even say the same words back right

it was hard in choir today you don't even have to do it it hasn't implied who what when so you keep the conversation going but then you may get home say that you stopped with fine and maybe her mom goes oh how was your day and you go fine on Venus that's a non answer answer men say if you wanted to tell me more you'd tell me more over here on our planet we're like if you wanted to know more you would have asked me more yeah so sometimes those are a little bit of bait and switch

we're like if you cared you'll stay with me and help me talk this out figure it out by talking so that's a really practical way men if if asking questions and drawing out your daughter or your son isn't your natural gift think who what when where how keyword or last word and I'mma give you one more for your toolbox men it's two words you're gonna love this I've had men go that works for me I like it too men just say get to the point already tell me how to fix it get to the point already

okay here it is I'm wondering OK like you I'm wondering what's going on I'm wondering what had you screamed today Moe I'm wondering I I once had a dad in the Obama project who

his 17 year old daughter Megan had four boys and she was the youngest and she's senior in high school skipping school rebelling and he goes she either bites my head off yeah and gets mad at me or the wall goes up and she won't talk to me hence the drawbridge and so I'm like we all have them as women I have a man go yep we know when it's the drawbridge is up so anyway over here I I I'd say this guy goes I can't get any response and I don't know what I'm doing wrong

but apparently everything I say makes her mad yeah or reactive so I said try putting I'm wondering in front of the exact same question this guy goes well DOC I got nothing to lose I might as well do it he goes home no lie true story I'm still in touch with Megan who's now a mom to three boys and dad Andy but he went home and he said hey Megan I'm wondering why didn't you go to school today same exact question and she goes oh actually I did go to school

we had an early release and that's why I'm home and he was like what just happened wow your tone changed I guarantee it if women feel like you're you're blasting them with an inquisition sure you think you're saying it in a soft softer way but that's that heart connection it's softening your tone and being mindful of that maybe your boy responds to going come on men come on get up it's time to go I I think it's because as men we feel like the goal is to get the info right but that's not the goal

the goal is actually to open the drawbridge come on so if I ask a question in a way that doesn't open the drawbridge then that actually doesn't even actually even if she answered the question you wouldn't have accomplished the goal yeah and if if like many of the men I've I've walked with say okay I know I'm not doing it right like I know the drop bridge is up yeah I have absolutely no idea what to do for her to lower it cause I can't pry it open right yeah I'm

I'm I feel like mine's being lowered and she's not lowering hers yeah so then you feel so stuck and that's what I love about equipping men to be the dad the hero they wanna be and and have more tools in their fathering toolbox of oh I can ask questions with who what when where how some why oh I can put I'm wondering in front of a sentence let me give you another one man I love practical I you're just dropping bombs Doctor Michelle I love it okay do you have a dry erase marker

most probably do somewhere yeah do you have sticky notes yes I do okay most have these sitting around their office or if not your drawer somebody else's these are a game changer for women you can do this with your daughter

you can do this with your son you can do this with your wife ex wife partner anybody and I say ex wife I know that's a little bit like what but that woman also probably has wounds some of them may from you sure this is a way you can be a proactive dad so for us as women mirrors are not usually our best friend just saying I've had an eating disorder I did my doctoral dissertation on eating disorders I've taught grad students on eating disorders I speak at conferences on eating disorder

this is my like I this is my lane right yeah and I'm telling you if you men would hear what the women in your life say in their head and it switches it's kind of it maybe around 9 or 10 is where it starts to shift I'm sure Mo loves looking at herself in the mirror and making faces yeah you're right she does and I wish they could all stay there where the mirror is their friend but something happens along the way where the mirror is almost talking with saying every flaw I mean

think of snow white mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of them all who said that do you remember uh the witch the stepmom the wicked witch she's the woman with the power who's asking an inanimate object to tell her whether she's beautiful women are still doing that every day yeah inanimate objects the mirror the scale the size by and large men are like whatever I'm good hey look at that you know in the mirror it's yeah it's sort of the opposite we look at we look at the mirror

and we see the tiny little muscle or you know that's the thing that is just slightly oh yeah my ABS look a little bit better today and we're like yeah but come on but you guys it's like you see just your flaws yeah we just see the flaws you're going yeah oh I can see some work you know my working out showing yeah so for a dad here's another practical thing for your fathering toolbox to be proactive is the power of your writing on her mirrors in your handwriting

or on a sticky note with your handwriting see it stands out from technology is I I promise you I can tell you story after story of women young girls especially who save them like one dad all he wrote all he wrote was to his daughter Maggie have a good day it wasn't even I love you I'm glad to be your dad I'm proud of you I'm praying for you yeah you know it wasn't even that it was have a good day yeah when I went over to their house she had taken it off the bathroom mirror

and put it next to her bedroom door on the wall so she would see it when she left wow are you kidding me this is a power tool yeah to put in your toolbox that if your daughter's going through a hard time or your wife women love this too right on the mirror right put smiley faces and hearts and love you I can't believe I get to be your dad or your husband or the the dad to to our son or daughter you can't water the soil of her heart enough with your words and yep we all say things we regret

but this is a way to counter because we know you know they teach that the love bank is 5 deposits to 1 withdrawal is a really good ratio of a healthy love bank just like in in you know

your if you have more withdrawals financially than you know than deposits you're gonna run out of money eventually yeah yep so a way to just be mindful of a deposit in her life and her heart and his your son's as well need your words they need life breathing words in order to internalize your view of them and become the young man or young woman you want them to be is you have so much power men to shape how your children see themselves and I think men don't hear that message enough yeah

that you're told more what you're doing wrong or you're getting corrected and I just wanna affirm you in fact I I just reread a message from a guy named Tom this last week that he wrote me a few years ago and I'd forgotten that we'd had this Twitter exchange and I reread what he wrote and he said I wait till the end of your podcast every time where you say go dads he says I don't have too many people cheering me on and he goes sometimes it makes me emotional so Sean and I are saying today

go dads go dads absolutely your view of your kids is being internalized and hopefully this conversation will up their intentionality and awareness of how important every single thing they do or don't do matters I love that sentiment now before we wrap up I like to ask every guest uh this same question so if you could distill everything that we've talked about into one guiding principle for fathers raising boys or girls or something maybe you try to live that yourself or

or maybe you've seen this work in

in the men that you've worked with what would that principle be okay welcome to Venus where words we have a lot I have two hahaha sounds good I don't know why no that's great distill it to one but what I would say some of it I just said about never underestimate the power of your influence as a father never underestimate the impact that you have on your daughter and your son's life when you show up the research shows that every area of your child's life is better by feeling connected to you

so really what I'm saying in that never underestimate the power is I'm talking about connection which you used that word earlier about connecting with Mo and that word connection is everything it'll override when you say it wrong or do it wrong or mess up or cause hurt make amends but it's the heart connection when you show up every area of your kid's life I'll say when you show up in your best way too right not perfect way but your best self

is just never underestimate the power of your presence and the flip side of that also this isn't even No. 2 but is that it's never too late to rebuild the bridge to your daughter's or your son's heart yeah you may have been given a message even by them I don't ever want you in my life yeah so I'm saying yes your presence matters I would say Sean probably 75% of the emails I get from dads are for estrangement so a dad may be listening going I hear you she won't talk to me he won't talk to me

he's cut me out of my life their life and I'm saying this is a I told you a Venusian way of ex is saying what you want me to say cause I gotta give dad's practical action steps not just theory yeah so dad if you're estranged where you you say I wanna show up but I'm being blocked go get a journal that looks like the style of your son or your daughter and begin to put entries in it with a date it's like a time capsule so that when the time comes

maybe years down the road that the door's opened again the drawbridge goes down you have a time capsule to say here's the date you were never far from my heart my heart was open but I had to honor your no that's a way dad that you can show up and be present in the present even if you're cut off from them right dreams you have for them wishes you have for them memories you have of them so that's kind of part 1 what I distill everything down to is never underestimate the power of your presence

and if you can't be present that's a way to keep hope alive for you the second part of my answer that's what to do do you know how important you are this is a don't do okay drop your anger hmm when you are living in an angry place again that's your own stuff 8 nine 10 but here's the thing to know is that dad

your anger will do more to destroy your kid's spirit their ambition their heart they'll internalize of you that they're not worthy if you had a dad that was angry men you know what I'm talking about that's right yeah and you don't want to repeat that you get to change it in your generation and two years ago I had a a interview with a with a guy men in the arena is the name of that men's organization and he took a 47 second clip where all I said was men drop your anger your anger will do more to

to make her stop believing in herself and give up and stop trying and believe that she's not worthy by just an angry response and guess what it went viral 3.22 million views wow just from this 47 second clip where I said men make a commitment today with your mouth that you will never respond in anger again you can determine that and I had a guy I was coaching around that time that said you know what my whole life I've been trying to control my anger yeah it never even dawned on me

that I needed to actually drop it like make like almost like divorce my anger like you're not gonna be allowed anymore I might feel it but it's not gonna come out so I'm saying do know how important you are men and don't respond in anger that's a two fold way to be the hero you wanna be and that your daughter and son needs you to be that's fantastic Doctor Michelle thank you so much for reminding us that the work of fatherhood starts by facing your own stories and

and so that we can show up for our kids you can learn more about her work and the Dad Whisper podcast the and uh and and her excellent excellent books the links to all of those things are in the show notes

Doctor Michelle thanks again this has been an absolute pleasure thanks Sean it's been great to be with you keep up the great work as a dad thank you so much and go dads go dads alright I love it raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino