Hey, it's Pats with another episode of Rage Against the Menopause, this one with another one of my favorite women, bridget To Chloe. I've worked with Bridgie and Top Rating Radio. She's one of Australia's most successful and much love personalities.
But away from the studio, to know Bridge really is to love her whyse beyond her years, She's always had words of advice about all aspects of life, and I regard her as one of the original trailblazers, a woman who broke through the glass ceiling, dominating in what was once a man's world. I've always admired the way she reinvents herself. Currently a presenter on ABC Radio, also an accredited counselor with her own practice, I think you'll also
find her a valuable addition to this series. Enjoy an invisible.
Age, Menopause. It's coming for you no matter what.
Let's build a village of support.
Why is it so damn hut in here?
Menopause is so hot right now?
I think I'm finally in menopause.
Women just want to feel heard.
Rage Against the Menopause a very special guest for Rage Against the Menopause, and.
This is a beautiful, beautiful.
Soul who I had the honor of working with several years ago, an absolute legend in radio and TV.
Bridget To Cloak, Welcome pets. It's so nice to see you. And now you're an award winner. I'm in very very esteemed company. I must say no about that.
So thrilled that you could could join us. You have had a career change. You had thirty years in TV and radio. I read your news when you were Bridge and Limo won Gold FM.
Yes you did, and we had a wonderful time doing that. Then sadly I got sacked and thought what the hell am I going to do with myself? But good I'd had a great un so, you know, thirty years in radio was pretty amazing. So yeah, I went back to UNI, which was incredibly difficult. As a fifty plus I bear something or other, couldn't remember how to write any sale or do anything anyway. Thankfully I had two adult kids. Yeah, so I went back and did a post grade counseling degree.
So I'm now practicing as a counselor, which is very very different too.
It is, but you know what, I'm not surprised that you've gone into this field because knowing you, being fortunate and blessed enough to know you, you have always always.
Had a heart of gold.
No, you have.
And I remember when I was diagnosed with cancer, so nine nearly. Would you believe a decade ago Audrey was three? You remember Audrey as.
A top I know, and you know how our whole world, Chris, our whole world had been turned upside down and shaken. And you came to my doorstep out in the western summers. You're like an hour away from home.
You had all this beautiful cooking and you just sat and talked to me for like two or three hours. And you know, the biggest gift you can give some one is your time.
And I'll never forget you. That's exactly what you do as well. So it was a very easy thing to do for someone like you.
No, I've never forgotten it. It's just meant so much.
It just made a lot, doesn't it. Things like that, There's no doubt about it.
It does. And people, I guess too, people don't.
Always know how to respond or what is the right thing to say, but sometimes just being present.
Yeah, I've really learned that actually in my journey because a lot of people who come to see me say no one talks to me about it, and it's like and I try and explain it. It's often they it's their own uncomfortability. You know what to do, what to say, abound with you. I think always I say this to my kids too. The best thing you can do is say something, do something and go from there, but don't just leave it.
But you didn't have to do that. And it was just thrilled to go to wheer Aby.
It's very affluent out that way, not quite affluent as well, but.
It meant so much because you know, I've always looked up, always looked up to you.
You're so legendary and what you've done in mediawat.
And for you to reach out like that, it meant a lot.
And so it doesn't surprise me that you've gone into counseling because you've always had a heart of goals. You've all you know, the woman behind the persona of the media personality with the high profile. There's a beautiful soul in there and I'm so thrilled that everyone gets to benefit from.
That, all your clients in your business.
You're a darling. Thank you. Look, I'm really enjoying it. It's it's a very very demanding because you've got people's lives in your hands to a certain extent. I mean, I don't mean obviously medically or anything, but there's a lot going on out there, particularly since COVID. I so a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of couples having problems. So I am really enjoying. I'm really enjoying doing it. It's it's great when you get a good result and you feel like you're making a difference.
Sometimes it's really difficult, but yeah, no, look it's been it's been interesting and great and I'm you know, I'm proud of myself for being able to change careers because I could have just curled up in a ball and never got up again, which was tempting for a couple of days.
Well, you know, radio can be brutal. Media can be absolutely brutal.
And it's like it's that creative sphere, isn't it, where you just pour your heart And so especially with Brecky Radio, you bring your whole life to the show, don't you overshare?
That's really dood to do.
And so it does feel like you've been cut off at the knees.
No, it was a terrible shock. But I look back at it now and I think, look, there's a lot of lot I could have done differently. But I do think I've never better about it because I think I am so lucky to have worked in the media when I did for as long as I did, and I think I just feel grateful for it. So I think that's helped with getting over the I think the shock and the grief. It's grief losing something that was like losing it, right, do you think?
I always say, but I don't know how true it is. It doesn't define no who I am, but does it?
Well? I always said that too, And I've been watching a colleague of ours get sacked a year earlier and thinking she was very about to define by it. Oh no, that won't be me. But it was me. I mean, all my kids knew me, as was that person on the rate. I knew a mother obviously, but I'd always been that. I didn't realize how much that was part of me, yes, until it stopped. So, which is really interesting now because now I work a lot with helping
people regain their identity, like often school moms. When you're a school mum. When your child glave school, you left with a bit of a lack of purpose. What next? So it's redefining who you are. So I think that's what I had to do. But like you, Pats, I said, no, that's not me. This isn't who I am. But it is a big part of your life. You give everything, so of course it's going to be part of your identity. It has to be.
It must have felt quite foreign because I know, if we're on survey break and Audrey is still at school and I'm there for breakfast, which she's.
Not used to me, I get in the way.
I know you're a nuisance when you see ruined the root I do, and.
She'll say, Mum, it's okay, you just do your own thing, and I feel very useless.
I know. It's funny, isn't it. It's so funny how you just realize that they get on quite well without you, but your home and wanting to be part of it all. I know, like back to.
Work, it's not where you fit, mum. You're not in that part of the jigsaw.
But that's also isn't that a problem to where when you're a working mum, and especially when you're doing Brecky radio and you're leaving house at you know, god, god forsaken hours. You've set them up, You've got It's like a fine routine, isn't it.
It's like a factory.
Everyone's got their role, they know where they're meant to be at what time, and you almost do yourself out of a job.
Well, I just have terrible guilt about not being around in the morning. God, yes, But then I realized, especially as the kid's got a bit older, that the afternoon was when they needed you because you had a bad day or whatever.
That's where you always say that to me, that was the way.
Maybe I was just justifying consult myself. Because I did, I felt terribly guilt. Yes, I never dropped them off.
Ever, you miss the assembly, you miss the choir, you miss the violin assembly, the certificate giving. It's like I always have pangs of that even now. Bridge It's like, I look at Audrey, she's thirteen, nearly fourteen. We've only got maybe four or five years, and you know, they'll cryst will console me and say, yeah, but look what you've been able to do for her by exactly working.
But it's not the same sometimes.
Look, Look, I think working is a good thing for mums.
I think it's good.
And unfortunately the work we do, I did you do does take away that big chunk of the day. But however, as I always say, you're there for the rest of it, and you know, it's good that.
Men a toast and sleep, sleep and grumpy.
Even though you can't talk to them because you're exhausted. I mean, I gave my kids barbecue shapes for dinner. As I think I told you I was so tired some nights. Oh so yeah, yeah, do what you do. You do what you do, and everyone does what they do. I think every mother has guilt, every working mother has guilt, and even mothers are at home have guilt. Yes, from the minute you have a baby, you have guilt. Yep.
Yeah, it's hard that you get, Oh, you're not going back to work, aren't you. I got, oh you're not going back to work if you know it's taken you five years to have your baby, now you're going back to work. But it's almost Also, why should I stop being what I do just because I can do well, we're told we can do everything. But then you're right, stay at home mums get Oh you're staying at home.
You can't win.
You can't win, and I think the best way to do is except the best thing is just to accept you can't win and do the best at what you're doing. And you know, just accept that is the way it is. It's the only awake.
Yeah, you were so helpful for me as I because I think I was back from Matt leave. I think, wasn't I when I went back to breakfast, So it certainly helped. You certainly helped get me through those mornings and.
Those I just think it would help to have another mother in the team too, who understands what it's like to leave there. Well, mine worn't babies, but I left mine from when they were three months old. Yeah, I went back to work. That's hard. You know that I had ter good with that as well. Anyway, But once again you sort of wait up and you think, but least I can give you this, and that's.
Right, that's right.
Tell me, how is your work different? Because I guess you're so. You're such a great orator and talker and this it flows so beautifully and naturally. But this, I this must be different for you.
The biggest thing I had to learn was one of the best skills you can have in counseling is listening. Now you and I know that if there's dead air for one minute, we start talking. Yes, And I've been trained, as we all have on radio, to just keep talking, keep talking, keep talking, because if you stop, it goes into panic mode and they put music.
Emergency tape goes.
So the biggest skill I've had to learn is sitting and listening and while they're talking, not being scared of dead air, like listen because then they'll keep going. So that's been the biggest thing. And I don't talk nearly as much as I used to imagine that, No I did. I literally sit there and I listen. I listened because also, you don't give advice, You just help them try and work it out for themselves. Yes, because if you give advice to somebody, if it's the wrong advice, that's a
big thing. So I have really say to myself every day two years one mouth, yeah, which used.
To be right all the way around.
So I'm rewired, and that's probably bee the biggest challenge. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm so proud of you. Do you know what you've done for women of our age? In our fifties. You're so right.
It's like a.
Collision sometimes of life. I think your fifties decade for me going through perimenopause and menopause. I think it's been an mind that I had cancer in my forties and fertility problems. I think it's been the most challenging, to be honest.
And I don't think anyone prepares you for it. I mean, no one really prepares you for having a baby either, I suppose. But this menopause thing comes in so many different and everyone's just so different. Is terrifying, isn't it. Some of the things it does to you, which it was funny, not funny, actually was awful. I had a quite a young boy, you know, he has to be
about nineteen or something. This was about a few months ago, and I suddenly started getting the sweats and I was literally dripping, dripping, and I'm like, it was so embarrassing because it's this young boy. I'm not gonna tell sorry, I've got menopause. Had it been like a someone else, I might have. But there was nothing I could do about it. And I've do you know, it's funny. I've been having watched the American election campaign. All I can do is look at Carmala Harris. I don't know where
she sits in her journey. And I go back to Hillary Clinton, all these high profile women, How the hell do they manage menopause if they're getting bad effects from it? I think about that all the time.
It's not fair, is it. At times? I can remember you sitting with a fan in the studio. You had that fan that plugged the USB thing.
Yeah, yeah, I still have a fan. I've got this group of girlfriends and whenever we go to for dinner, we bring our hands and we all sit there and honestly, everyone else is going, what are they doing? But I don't. I'm a funny place, actually, because I was very late, right, funnily enough to actually stopping having all together. Yeah. So, and I have had not constant symptoms, but the ones like I've just described you have come from nowhere. Ye, and they and the nights where I can't sleep, Oh
my god, it's the worst. Yeah, so bad. Yeah, But then it's all just seems to and you know, sometimes when you're moody, you can't work out why, whether is it that or is it something else? It's hard to know. You know.
That's what I find most frustrating about it is And if you go to a specialist, they can't tell you at what point you are in your journey either.
As I say, to look at your mother, don't they? Yeah, but my mother had his direct to met very early, so it's hard to look at her and say, what's your journey because apparently that is quite relevant.
Well, my mum's eighty eighty one and still getting hot flushes the sweats.
It's not fair some people have it. I actually had a client once again, a woman a bit younger than me, and it actually ruined her life. She got the worst symptoms I've ever seen started to affect a marriage.
It's awful, it is what did you? What have you found helps has helped for you? I did try HRT for a while when that was going through that.
That was good. But as I say, then I feel all fine again, and I think I've been one of the lucky ones, to be honest, but just having a hint of what it's like when it's bad, and for some people they get that all the time for years on. It's absolutely horrific and the brain fade.
Yeah, Honestly, the amount of times I've been in the middle of saying something on air and then I'll just and I can't think, or I can't think of a word, and the boys just look at me, and I think, do.
You remember when we were in when we used to work together and I had that fan going and the boys used to tease us, tease me unmercifully. And I think back now and I think, and I lots of men are listening to your podcast because men need to get on board with this totally, and young men, young men, and be so supportive because it used to be a joke or she's going through the church and it's actually so offensive because it is, you know, we go through
so much. And I would love to think that men listen to rage against the menopause and think how can I best support my partner.
I think the tide is turning, you know, Bridge.
I've had so much beautiful feedback from series one last year, and surprisingly it took me off guard. A lot of men in their thirties who say thank you for educating me, because I had no idea what it was. And they'll say, you know, I know my mum was going through something, but I didn't fully understand it. So thank you for educating me, and thank you for equipping me for when my partner in ten or twenty.
Years goes through.
That's what I've aimed to do in this and to get the donversation, and you have done a great job of that.
And I really love that fact that these younger men are very different to them grew up with.
It can't be.
It's amazing. They're much more in tune with being sympathetic, empathetic, understanding and not just going on my wife's gating to you know, all that rubbish we used to get. I think I've seen a massive change in. I think young men these days are amazing and it's a credit.
To their mothers and their fathers for bringing up this new generation of men. You've got Charlie's what now, twenty twenty five.
I know he's a grown up, and my daughter's twenty three, Alex, so I know they're I know they're big, mature people now. Believable, But I do I've really seen a change in. I think I was listening to one of your podcasts with one of an expert she was saying this, the metopause now is a bit like what mental health was a few years ago where Noah is not talking and no one was talking about it. Now it is becoming something.
Thank goodness for you and other people who are tackling it. Yeah, because it's still a little bit of one of those forbiddens up.
Their stigma, which is ridicul It's.
Ridiculous because half the population go through no.
I know, and one third of is it one third of women?
At any time, I was doing a bit of research and you were on a wonderful podcast, The Power of Women.
Oh yeah, that was very digillic.
Yeah, of course, and you said something that I think a lot of women can relate to.
I'm going to play the audio because.
We were talking to all our girlfriends. We're all fifty plus, say, every single one of them has had to go through some sort of change transition, whether it be like me losing a job, my friend losing her husband, empty nest, the kids have moved out, menopause, feeling invisible. And I think that age group of women go through such a lot and the attention is not on them. Nobody seems to realize what an invisible age this is.
I love that an invisible age And do.
You know it's so interesting. I've and it is exactly what I said. They're watching friends, every one of my friends. Something's going on. Whether it might even be elderly parents getting sick.
That's a big thing.
Yeah, and there is. I really feel like this group of women I put, let's say fifty plus need a lot more support than what they're getting. I get a lot of women that age coming into my rooms as well, and often it is literally I don't know who I am, I don't know what to do with myself, or I've forgotten how to talk to my husband and all of these things and no one you know, when you're young. Occasionally, not that we want men whistling at us, but we used to get noticed. That we're a group of women
who no longer get noticed. And it's not a matter of vanity or anything else. It's just like, oh, what would she do? Just there? You're not what would that person who's had all this life experience. No, And it is a very difficult age, and I would love to see a lot more done. In fact, before I did the counselor, I wanted to start a network group for women, which then the counseling can have just never got around to it. My partner Andy Webster, who's she's a counselor
as well. We've for a long time wanted to put together this workshop where we bring women together who going through whatever it is and give them support one strategies, lover it skills how to find themselves again and get through that. And look it is a projected on the list.
Yeah, I think that would be brilliant.
Yeah, I do so you felt that. I mean, you're a lot younger than maybe it with your friends.
Not that much younger. Yeah, I have and girlfriends as well. You know.
I'll tell you a funny story. I was in a major retailer the other day in the shoe department, go figure, yes and yes, Imelda standing there, and I was right in the staffer's face, like I was right there, right there. There were two younger girls either side of me who came after, and she went to them, but she didn't even It was like truly didn't exist. It really was
like I was invisible. And one of them fortunately said I'm sorry this lady was here first, and I thought, I'm not that hard to like, I'm here, I am here, Like.
It is an invisible age.
Really, invisible.
Yeah, it really is. It's almost like you just discarded, like you know, we are an aging society, but it's a shame. In other countries, aging is considered the older you get, the more valuable you get, and I feel like in this country that is not the case at all. Yeah, but you know, I think, I think I'm turning sixty this year and I'm really excited about I've got no problem with getting older. I love the idea of being sixtycause I love the world life, all of that experience.
But you can't buy no, But I am feeling all those things that you're just talking about, the invisibility and everything else, and it is something that we have to work on together as a group of women and give us the skills to get through that in the strategies, because it is. It's a terrible, terrible feeling. And I don't think men get that, No they don't. They don't know.
Well, they're seen as a silver fox and a stallion.
Look at those. Yeah, all those lives really suiting. We get a line and we suddenly you know, it really is. Look, it's getting better slowly. But I was never aware of all the things that women of this age go through. I think you I don't know whether you've heard that A lot of the homeless population and women.
Over sixty, which is just marriage breakups and yet or no super or not all of that being, you know, not being out of work because I will bring.
Up the children.
It is disgusting because they give all of themselves.
And that that's another point I want to make, and that you have made previously, is that don't in effect, don't rest on your laurels, like okay, I've had a thirty six year career in radio, but don't take for granted whatever industry you're in that well it just sounds dye that it won't be discarded.
Have a backup.
Well, okay, I talked a lot about that in that podcast that would diguill It. I never had a backup, and I look back now and think, you idiot, But I actually just just kept going and going and going, and I never ever crossed my mind that was stupid. So the worst thing about which you're right, That's what I learned, is always have a plan, be and don't think you're too old to not knowskill reskill. And I think when I went to Union, I was the oldest by a mile, but all the young kids were just
lovely to me. They couldn't have been nicer. They were better at their essays, but they all said in the practical stuff, we can't get to where you are because you're older. You've just got an experience which we can't see.
So I mean, you're so good at talking to people life experience.
Well, we've got so much to offer, and we can't let menopause or anything else, or invisibility or anything else put us off and not feeling empowered that. You know, I'm excited about the next twenty years, assuming I really am excited about it, but I am passionate about I would really love to help, really would love to get this workshop together, which you need to do it. It's on my list, Pats.
No, But I mean good things worth doing take time. It's like this podcast to you know this seriously, Bridge was like three four years in the making.
And what made you so passionate because you were going through.
Because I was frustrated.
So when I was going through it, I just thought, why aren't we talking about this?
Like why is it such a dirty word?
Like there was so much emphasis on conception and pregnancy and birth, but why not again, It's that whole discarded generation where I thought, well, hang on, no, and you work decades and decades and decades to perfect your craft and then this hits.
And you know, for me it was hang on.
So I had infertility for five years and lots of pregnancy loss. Then I got cancer and then I hit It's like, now.
You want me to go through.
This, Yes, I know, and we'll be a mum. And it has there has to be a situation of empathy. It's like, it really annoys me that women don't get sanitary products. We're talking about half she's still.
On probably I can't remember.
All I know is that you know, when half the population is going through something, surely and the empathy from men is one of the most important things. And I do think hopefully that is thanks to you and other people, is coming to light. But you know the other thing where women have babies, and that's not easy. I mean,
I'm glad we do. I'm glad we get to do that to be that person, but that is tough when you think what you go through with that, and then you come out the other end and off you go again into this other abyss of.
Yeah, go and be professional again now.
Plus you just feel like you're carrying so many bags and everything.
I know, and I think I just think it's really important to have it out in the open, and it would be good, and it would have been nice if I could have when I was in the room sweating with that young boy embarrassed, well, I think I just think it caught me by surprise and I was horrified, and I just if it had been you sitting opposite me, that would have been easy. But I think in retrospect, I should have just said, also, you don't reveal too much about which, of course it might be a bit
personal too, but I would definitely. I mean, the girls and I talk about it all the time. We spend our life talking about it with our fans, and that's great and everything else. And look, some of my friends have had it absolutely terribly, like they have really their whole lives have been affected by it. I changed their life, Britchie about to stop worker one has one's been on hrt off, hrt, tried this, tried that, just ongoing and very down in the dumps and you know, not a
depressive personality at all. So that's been really really tricky.
How many of your clients that you see through counseling do you think perhaps their mental state can be metopause part of it.
A few, like a lot of women who come in who are in that range. I often say, I'm not sure I'm feeling this way if it's that or But usually it always plays a part, and some, as I've said, really drastically bad I was. I don't know. I don't know the answers to it because I haven't gone into it far enough because I haven't needed to. But I do think always heading down the Eastern track's a good idea to just seeing if there's some some sort of Chinese medicine that can help you. Yeah, I don't know.
If it means standing on your head up against a wall.
If it helps, Yeah, It's like I do try to get pregnant to do the bicycle legs.
Yes, you would have done it, pillow up under the bum you every single day. Well, I was taking Chinese herbs, so we were flying up to Sydney once a month. We had this German Chinese doctor, doctor Snell.
He was brilliant.
He had this tiny little practice in Chatswood and we go up once a month and he do dry needling. And I think it was at Moxie. Have you ever seen mine?
I had moxy. I had Moxy, the burning box I called it. Yeah, I had that when I was trying to get pregnant.
Yes, it's brilliant.
And you know what so I had about because I've got indo and polycystic. So he cleared. I mean you've always got that, you can't get rid of it. But cleared all the gun out of my system. And then you pregnant and got pregnant with ordering and we've done IVF before that that didn't work.
It's look, it's whatever.
Works, whatever works for you, and I don't care how crazy. Yeah, it's like I remember when Jim Stein's had cancer and he's doing everything he could and he ended up drinking? Is you? And I think at once that's and I'm like, I was thinking, go for it, like whatever you can do to help yourself. But I think the best thing is talking about it, getting your partners talking about it.
Without that And I really think back to those days with that fan and the mockery like it was constant, wasn't it, And look good hearted in every way, But I think back on now. I think I shouldn't have had to probably had to know that.
No, No, I think yeah, there's lessons to be learned.
I think, yeah, yeah, and you're teaching them. Patsy. I'm very proud of you.
I'm proud of you.
Well, I'm prouder proud.
Like So if women are grappling and they're in Melbourne because you're where is your.
Oh that's very nice. If you it's Bridget Duco Counseling. I've got rooms in South Yarra, so if you can just yeah, google Bridget do Co Counseling.
I've got rooms in South Yarra. No I haven't.
You've got rooms in Richmond, and you've got a website. I've got a website. So it's b D yeh one of those things. What's underscore hyphen hyphen bd bd?
Oh god, this is the rain fog. Just just blame the brain fog. We can put a link, we can put a link.
We can absolutely, I see that's menopause. Anyway, it's b D Counseling dot com dot means because it's so embarrassing. Thanks for the plug, which I've just mucked up.
No you haven't.
We'll put a link up because seriously, if people are grappling, it helps to talk to someone that's not necessarily your partner or a girlfriend.
You just need to find the right mix, don't you.
And I just think, and there are strategies, which you know. I love helping people try and not feel the pain their feeling. But I put some things into place. There are a lot of things you can do. And I think often with women our age, you've spent so much time throwing everything in to the kids, You've actually forgotten how to soothe yourself.
It's shop syndrome. I call it.
Yep.
You just you always put yourself last. And it's not a conscious decision you make. I just think, as a mum, you do that.
You do that, and then suddenly it's like, oh, I've forgotten how to look after myself. I don't know how to start. So yeah, I mean that's where And I am passionate aboutetting these workshops, which I will must one of these days.
I'd love to see you do that. Yeah, you should do this podcast series.
Now I'm on yours. I don't want to do mine.
I'm quite happy a big guests, Bridgie, thank you so much.
You just adorable.
I love you a bit well, I.
Love you too, and I'm good on you. I think this is a really amazing podcast. I've listened to every episode, and I also think good on you because I know you've put the whole thing together yourself and it's amazing.
So good on, congratulations, Thank you. Bridge to Chloe. You know, some people just come into our lives reason. She's certainly one of those blessings in my life. Join me in episode five, as I hit the halfway mark of series two of Rage Against the Menopause, I talk about a breakthrough in treatment.
Ossie.
Women suffering from debilitating symptoms finally have access to the first new kind of hormone therapy to be subsidized by the federal government in more than two decades. We explore those options with Professor doctor Sonya Davison, endochronology lead at the Gene Hales Clinic. I'm Petrina Jones, and thanks for listening Rage Against the Menopause.