Beer is a Conversation: Matt King and Glenn Wignall

Hi, I'm James Atkinson and welcome to the conversation we recorded with Matt King and Glenn Wignall of Sydney's The Grifter Brewing Company. Starting out in twenty twelve as a gypsy brewer, the Grifter has since opened its own brewery and tap room in Enmore, where the guys are turning out some great beers in what is undoubtedly one of the country's most visually appealing venues.

Matt Kirkegaard, Pete Mitchum and I visited just before Christmas to find out a bit more about the Grifter's journey to date, their upcoming plans, and of course their views on recent industry developments. I hope you enjoyed the chat. King and Glenn Wignall from Grifter Brewing Company, thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for coming down. Cheers.

Guys for people who don't know the Grifter story, not everyone's from Sydney. Um you know, when did you guys start up and and what's you know the story behind the Grifter? Yeah, so started um well it's probably pushing six years ago now. Um uh s Glenn and I were both homebrewers and sorta just flowed from that. Um there wasn't really much talk of doing it commercially but we've we got a few opportunities. Um Starting out at Young Henry's in Newtown.

Um and we did some contract brewing there for a while, uh, while h while used holding down full time jobs and stuff like that. We got lucky I guess, got an opportunity to put down a batch of beer, uh, thanks to Richard Adamson and um that was kinda before we even had a brand or a name or anything, so we were like shit, we better sort that out pretty quick.

Um, did that and then um they got busy obviously and then they let us install uh a fermenter of our own in their brewery and it just kinda went from there. And so how long have you had the uh tap room that we're sitting in now? It's about two years, right? Two years old last week, so that's when we opened it to the public. We moved in a bit earlier than that and got brewing before we opened the the brewery bar. But um yeah, two years has been going for now.

And you've had your battles with council I believe in that two years? Yeah, everyone does, I guess. It's just part and parcel of having a brewery or having anything to do with liquor, so In a way I like it was probably warranted. Like there was some grey areas on both sides. Um but I guess if you prove to them that um

I don't know, you're here for long haul and you're a legitimate sort of business, then they they sort of comply with what you want and yeah, it worked out for us in the end so we're all good now. And I was interested to learn Matt that you spent a bit of time up at Stone and Wood. Um was that before you actually started the Grifter?

Yeah, briefly I was I was I did a bit of work experience up there. So when we started Grifter I was twenty Five, twenty four, twenty five, and I was a bit sort of worried about not figuring out what I wanted to do and I used to go around to Glenn's house every second week and brew beer with him and sort of that's how I learnt a bit about homebrewing and stuff,'cause Glenn had been doing it for a for a while before I I had and then

Um got an opportunity to go up through Brad Rogers to go up and do some work experience and I didn't really know what I was getting myself into to begin with, but um was just excited to get that opportunity because at that point in time it was really hard to get your foot in. foot in the door and kinda still is with brewing. But um

Yeah, I was lucky enough to get that experience. I think I was up there for about five weeks or so. Um, and then yeah, wasn't quite ready to make the move to Byron and Um, came back to Sydney still not knowing what really what to do, but Glenn got an opportunity to meet Richard and then that's kinda where it grew from. So Um, learn a lot in that short period of time and um can't speak highly enough of that company or those guys. They're

guess the storeworts of the industry and s someone that I kinda really look up to. I I remember right at the start Um, I would call Matt every like second day when he was working there and I was like, What what'd you get up to today? And he's like, Oh, keg and psi pacifica ale man I'm just like, Fuck, that's amazing. How many did you do?

And um and then I th I remember like it sounded like they might have offered him a job or something. So there was there was a minute there where I was just like, Oh, do what you gotta do, man. We had some ideas to do our own thing. Um

I'm just glad he chose to to stick around Sydney. Stone and Wood would have been a pretty small operation then as well. Yeah it was in it was in the Baronia um then that's where they're wearing everything so it's pretty phenomenal from there to now where they're at but Um oh when I was there I thought it was huge. Couldn't believe how big the tanks were and stuff like that. So um yeah, I guess that shows how starry Ida kinda was.

Hey guys, I have to ask because I remember when I first uh heard of the Grifter and it it popped up on my on my radar. And it was it reminded me of one of my all time favourite movies, The Sting, which came out in nineteen seventy three, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say. And that's where I first learned about grifters. Is that where the grifter came from?

Uh? Uh not not so much the the film, but um it was c it was an idea of a f a friend of mine We're throwing some other names around and this this guy, my mate Dan, came up with this name and uh we felt that it kind of fit suck a slightly dodgy character and I guess being just ghetto homebrewers at the time we thought that we could sort of play with it and get our foot in the door hopefully that way. Yeah and now it's just kind of stuck with us.

And Glenn, that doesn't sound like a Marrickville accent. Um how long have you been in Sydney for? Uh about eleven years. I'm from Wellington, New Zealand. represent. Yeah. Uh I kinda just moved over here. Oh, I actually didn't really move over here. I just came to to skateboard for a little while. I'm into skateboarding and um

That's how I met Trent, our other business partner,'cause he has a skateboard company. And um yeah, I was just gonna do that for a few months and then that turned into a year and then I went away for about five months and then came back been here ever since.

One of the things that I always am struck by when I come here is just the quality of the fit out and the decorations and the lighting and all that kind of stuff. You know, how how did you guys put together such a great looking tap room? Yeah, oh thanks for noticing that for starters. Um I it's something that we really put time into when we were opening the bar. At the time we got the place that the brewery tasting bar was always just a bit of an add on and um

Yeah, I guess we just put a little bit more time. We've always kind of done things in a certain vein where it's aesthetic or design stuff, so it's just something um that we put a bit of time into and yeah, we did most I mean, most of the design stuff and as much building stuff we could do we did ourselves. But um yeah it took it took a little bit longer which was frustrating but we're really happy with the end result.

Got some friends I believe that are in the lighting world as well, which has been uh that's part of the whole Kiwi connection I believe. Yeah, there's a few Kiwis over here, so It's like mafia, we always someone knows someone who can do something, so yeah, it's pretty good. Thanks Tara. Guys you started at home brewers, um and whilst you've acknowledge you've had a few lucky breaks working for o other breweries, I mean

This is a very grown up sort of enterprise to take uh a leader. There's a lot of stainless steel here, a lot of kegs, you've got employees. You're backing yourselves and your skill, but you're also backing the future of craft beer in in making a big leap from something you could have just kept doing in your garage.

for your own pleasure and your friend's pleasure to something that is a you know a very serious operation? Yeah, I mean I guess I kinda look back and I guess we're probably pretty modest guys. Like we we say we caught lucky but we also worked very hard to get here. So um

having jobs full time and I guess the difference at that point it's probably not so different now is contract brewing. It used to just be hand over recipe but we were pretty firm on doing everything ourselves and kinda taught us along the way how we like to work and certain procedures we like to do but um we sacrificed a lot

I guess to get to where we are. I suppose our sort of rise, if you wanna call it that, kinda came it was a it was a long, drawn out, sort of staggered process whereas I don't know it seems like these days people open up overnight almost and they're selling X amount of beer in three months time. Um, yeah, definitely wasn't like that for us. We contract brewed for quite a long time and

We we bought like, you know, a shell of a brewery and had it in storage for a year and put it in here and there was basically nothing else in here and um we just sort of worked it up from there really, did the bar later. Um spent many weekends in here painting stuff and bashing shit out and yeah.

So it went. Guys one of the I guess the um uh the big bonuses that a lot of places that have uh whether it's a brew pub or a tap room, but anyone that ha has the the public able to come and drink from the source basically. Um one of the biggest advantages is that you've got that immediate feedback and all that sort of thing and and you can engage with your customers and perhaps explain

a bit about the beers and that sort of thing. Where do your punters come from? Are they locals? Are they coming here because there are now a handful of beers in Marrick there's the Marrickville Mile and you know people can go from one to the other? Or like where do they come from?

I've definitely noticed a change in the last year in terms of who's coming here. So originally it was just locals and people in the immediate area, but yeah, people are travelling from all over to come to all the different breweries. Um and it's been really noticeable in the last sort of six to twelve months.

I mean we've kind of been here for years now, in the area for years, so we've known that this has kind of been bubbling under the surface so to speak, but now it's kinda I mean, you guys are down here talking to us, there's people that are interested in hearing about the brews in this area. So more and more it I mean it's I I live like a hundred and fifty meters away and if you walk around on a Saturday Abo

You can bet that most people you see are going in between the all the different breweries and stuff like that. So yeah, I think it's kinda becoming a known thing that people will travel to to come to these breweries. Yeah.

You guys have y y you said modest, but you you certainly have been very quiet, is w how I would describe it, you know, being editor of a beer publication. You know, th I don't think I've ever received a grifter press release. I d I just think you guys have really kept focused on yourselves. Has that been a conscious decision or is that just just to your personalities? Yeah, probably a bit of personality in that. Um being pretty busy as well. So um yeah, we don't

specifically have a sales rep or or a marketing person or anything. It's kinda just all handled by us. Um so there's that element. But we've always just kinda put our head down and kinda worked hard and I feel like people are recognising that our beers are popping up a bit more now. Um But yeah, it's just kinda been our way for a while. And what about like from a beer quality perspective?

How how has it been for you guys taking the step from being, you know, um home brewers to moving to, you know, a a big production or bigger production brewery like this? Like what what have you done to be able to um you know keep improving the quality of the beers that you're putting out? I guess it's been a it's been a journey for sure. Like the f if I think back So the first beers that we were putting out.

I you know, I'll probably be pretty horrified if I had one on today. So there's been a lot of learning on the way. But um I guess we were lucky enough when we did make that transition for, you know, from twenty litres to one thousand two hundred we had, you know, s a couple of guys around us that could steer us in the right direction. Yeah, and then I guess now we're pretty conscious of

um beer quality and you know the guys that I choose to work down here I want them to put as much effort into keeping it that way. So yeah. And the the pale ale that we're drinking now um that The flagship for the grifter? Yes, it is. That's it is, but it isn't the first beer we f we brewed. So It was the first beer we put into the tank back in Young Henry's but it's way different these days. Yeah, it's a very sort of

more stripped back lean hoppy version. Yeah. But I mean it's been like that for a couple years now so it's not like people have been noticing recently. And congratulations on the the the palette. It's a really nice beer to sit while we uh while we have a chat.

One of the things that fascinates me at the moment is we've seen a number of breweries that have been taken over and uh there's been no surprise which brews have been taken over. Um They either have been around for a while or they look like they've set up to be taken over. You guys look like you're here to do something that you love. But you're young fellas, you sort of have a big commitment in here. Do you think five, ten, fifteen years down the track, you know, w when

you've been around the block a few times, the the passion's faded. You know, do you still want to be brewing uh in your late forties, early fifties or do you have an exit strategy? You know, are you even thinking that far ahead or are you just enjoying what you're doing now? Yeah. We talked about all this quite recently, obviously it's pretty topical. Um but

Yeah, you're right you're right. Like we there's no exit strategy or plan for us. I mean sometimes I still kinda pinch myself to say like this is my job and this is now my life and hopefully it can be my career, you know. So I think as we're what we were discussing before with sort of trusting the longevity of the industry and stuff like that and having the Bury Tap bar, having that face to face interaction is really important for us and without it I don't reckon we would have survived. So

Um yeah, we're we're just kinda in it for the long haul and just yeah, happy to be making beers for a living. But when you approach it, you know, you've got a big investment, you've got uh em employees and and those sorts of things and uh you know you you can

Some people use the term buying yourself a job so you've created something that you love doing. But you know, w once you get a bit older, you know do you do you hopefully one day have kids that will take over the business? You know, are you looking for the Cooper's model or are you looking

to just have have a job and then one day you can sort of say well that was a great career, we've got a bit of money saved, um I'll close it down or do it do I sell it? What you know what's your ultimate aim for grifter? Yeah, I mean it's a really hard question to answer. Like we're just sort of taking this thing to where it goes. So, yeah, I I don't have any children or anything like that, so that's not something I think about in terms of they'll take over the business one day. Um

But yeah, just I guess who knows where it uh it's gonna be a really interesting sort of next few years for the industry to see like how established it is and how much it sets. Glenn's got a family so he can discuss that side. Um well I was just gonna say that you know, we've been around for close to six years and it feels like only just now we can s sort of step away a little bit, which is really cool. I'm just kinda still getting used to that idea. Um

You know, I just set my alarm for five thirty every morning for a long time there and now I just sort of get up whenever I want, which is pretty cool. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy for the moment. To set up the tap room um and brewery did you have to

go outside to get, you know, capital to facilitate that or was it all done, you know, with your own family um funding? Yeah, I mean for the most part, yeah, we got some help from our family, but then like I said, it was like a staggered uh rise so we were already around brewing beer for quite a lot for a few years there so

we had some put away and we managed to scrape everything together. And then yeah, when we got in here we scraped more together and set this thing up as well. We had a lot of help from friends in as you know, around the area that were good with their hands and stuff, so we were pretty lucky. Um, we had a massive party to thank everyone when we got open as well, which was pretty cool. Everyone was pretty stoked. It was uh a real sort of collaborative effort I guess you could say.

Guys, what are the biggest changes that you've seen in the six years that you've been opened? A in terms of I guess um you know the way you look at the business because as as it grows you've got to you've got to grow in your thinking with the business. But more importantly I guess when craft, if you like, first everyone wanted big hoppy beers and that was what set us apart.

Do you find now that people are coming in and and wanting something like a really nice, easy drinking pale ale like what we're having at twenty five past eleven in the morning? Um

Or, you know, a a Pilsner or uh, you know, something a little bit more sessionable. How how has it changed? Yeah, we were kinda probably swept up in that big hoppy sort of stuff at the beginning and and that's the stuff we enjoyed and we still really enjoy it, but it definitely has changed. I mean the pale trumps everything we make.

four times the amount sort of thing. I guess there's always new waves, so um you got sort of fruit and sour wave happening now and that'll ride that's probably here to stay I would imagine. Um but I guess the thing that surprised me. It kinda took a lot longer than I thought it would but You can kinda walk into any corner pub around town now and they'll have a local beer on tap and that's taken a lot of work to get to that point but

it sorta should be really common, like especially with all these breweries in the area, there's no reason why a pub, no matter who they're owned by, no matter who they're contracted to, there's kinda always a way to get a local beer on. So that's kind of something I think's pretty cool is that any sort of dingy or crap looking pub will have something good and local on and that's just kind of the way it is now and it'll only get better and you know more accessible.

Does that mean that now that Justin Hems is moving in next door he's already committed to um the grifter tap? Yeah, yeah, we're we're on tapping there, so that that's that that was good. I mean Uh w we had a really good relationship with the previous owners and the beer. We sort of got the beer to be one of the top performing beers in that pub.

um, which we were really proud of and then yeah, um Justin took the one next door and um yeah, we're on tap in there and another one up the road called the Queen Vic, which is his, so I guess making some inroads into something that's been pretty stitched up for a long time is pretty exciting. Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's only a handful of breweries

you know, i in Sydney that that have taps in Merrivale pubs, so that's a big coup. Yeah, definitely. I mean it goes I mean they focus a lot on food and wine and stuff, so the next step is local beer. I mean

It's literally made fifty meters away. I always say it's the hardest delivery d we do'cause I don't wanna be seen driving it over there, so I wheel it back and forth and it's takes like four times as long as any other delivery we do but Yeah, it's um it it's good f good for everyone and obviously good for us, so yeah.

And what about um elsewhere in the range, um, you know, we've talked about how the the pale owl's the powerhouse, but um the watermelon pilsner seems to be um you know that's obviously a pretty unique sort of an offering. It's a fruit beer that's not a not a sour by any by any stretch. That's very popular as well, isn't it? Yeah. I mean the popularity of that

It I mean it's it's come from a one off beer that we made with Frankie's Pizza probably three years ago. Um we were kinda spec to make a smashable lager and we kinda wanted to go again the grain a bit with all the other wacky beers that they would have on the menu for that night. So we were just gonna brew a straight up lager and then as the event got closer we kinda started to think how we could make it somewhat more interesting and then

Yeah, Glenn and I just bounced some ideas around and got to Watermelon Pilsner and brewed at once, really popular, sort of kept going, but it just kinda hit a point where people were coming in here to only drink that and if we didn't have it they'd they'd leave or they'd

They'd they'd call next time and say, Do you have it on tap? Yeah, it'd be like so it's um it's really surprised me with the popularity of that one. I mean Glenn I don't do any of the brewing stuff anymore but Glenn might have something to say about the watermelon side of things.

Yeah, have you have you found an efficient way to do it? Uh you should should call um there's a little brewery in Swan Valley that works with them a little bit too. Yeah, I should hit'em up for some advice. Um oh yeah, I'll just add that it I mean, sometimes when we make beers we're not really thinking about the future of them and yeah, when they get popular sometimes it's you're kicking yourself a little bit, you know, shit, I gotta make I gotta chop all these watermelons all the time.

Um, but yeah, I mean it it is pretty painstaking task. Um But yeah, at least I got another couple of guys to help me out these days. Not getting Matt's sister in here. They help me. Yeah, I had a I actually had a very important question. I was gonna say when's old mate finished uh cleaning the the lines'cause I'm hanging out to try a serpent's kiss. Well that's in cans as well though, isn't it? Or has been.

Yeah, it it was in cans when we were testing out this whole labelling thing and then we just decided to stick to putting out a sort of a flagship beer. Um, but yeah, we've talked about doing it again in proper printed cans, so watch the space. And Glenn, are you I guess um utilising the the diversity and the range of um providors and suppliers and that sort of thing that are in this area when it comes to um whether it be coffee or watermelon or whatever it might be for your beers.

Yeah, yeah. Funnily enough we just did a coffee beer uh that came out on Friday with Coffee Alchemy, the roaster just down the street. So yeah, yeah, we've we've done a few things like that, um, with locals in the area. It's good, keeps it interesting and sort of creates a sense of community. Um a lot of people that coming here to drink beer, also go to Coffee Alchemy, you know, every day probably. So yeah, it's nice to include people in the neighbourhood.

And there really seems to be that community sort of feel and it's almost like um, you know, you guys a and some of the other um brew pubs or, you know, tap rooms around Marrickville. are really embracing that kind of um or taking the role that the the local pub used to have as that sort of community hub and it would be, you know, so y you'd be here and the there's the baker drinking with the coffee roaster drinking at the at the brewery. Yeah, for sure. It's pretty unique, eh? Um

Well I guess I don't get to leave Sydney uh too often or I haven't in the last few years but um yeah I've never come across anything quite like it. So that's pretty exciting. It's a good place to be. Yeah, I'm stoked. And the cans that we've got in front of us now, is that um mobile canning? Is that what's made that possible?

Yeah, um we've been using East Coast scanning since we started doing the cans and um it's just been working for us. So we get'em in once a month and do that. Um We have quite a lean team in the brewery so yeah, rather than, you know, biting off a bit more than we can chew at the moment with trying to commission a canning line and get into something that we don't have a whole lot of experience And we're just sorta happy to outsource it for the moment.

You know, we've already talked about, you know, how many new breweries are opening around the place and all that sort of stuff. Um, how have you g guys found that's h affected your wholesale business? Is it is it becoming even tougher to To find taps and um, you know, sell sell beer. I mean it was different with us because we were always keg so if people wanted our beers they kinda had to p put it on tap, which is pretty rare. Like most people split it or I mean

packs are really good way to move volume. Um but we really stuck at it with the kegs, mainly because yeah, we didn't have the resources to do the package option. Um so yeah, it is really tough to get taps, but I guess being six years in we kinda established the name and we've always been a pretty like ninety percent of what we do is TAR.

even now. So yeah, it i it is difficult but I think having the name in the industry for quite a while it has has held us in good stead. It's funny I was at a beer event the other day. um with another newer brewery and um he sort of referred to us as being like a mature sort of older brewery which I thought was kind of funny'cause I s I still sort of feel like a A child in a brewing sense, uh

You mentioned you're at a beer event. One of the things we've talked about on the podcast recently is Beer events and uh we we we're seeing more and more uh beer festivals popping up.

A are they still an attraction for you guys? Uh uh are they an attraction for you guys at all to go along? And what what do you look for in a good beer festival for you guys to be involved in it? Not so much my area, it's probably more Matt's but um Yeah, I know what you're saying, there's definitely more and more beer events.

these days and um yeah I don't know if ne s that's necessarily a good thing. I mean we try to do our best with our limited resources and team to try and get out and make an effort to get to all of them and stuff but sometimes it's just a bit of a headache and um you're sort of preaching to the converted already. Um and I mean part of like if if it's in terms of inner Sydney sort of event it's like partly why we have

this tasting bar so that we're we're here to this is our home, you can come down if you wanna know about us and you'll get the real deal right here rather than an ESCI set up in a car park somewhere. But I mean we just did one down the road, October West, yeah.

And that was that was pretty cool. Like it felt like there was a a crowd that wasn't necessarily um, you know, y your typical bear enthusiast, so it was cool to see some new faces and things like that and maybe we did reach a few people in that instance so that was good. So who is the typical grifter drinker? Like do you you guys um think that you're a brand that the beer geeks get particularly excited about, or is it more just a locals local thing or Yeah. Um

Yeah, I I I don't think we necessarily attract the the sort of pointy beer geek sort of crowd. Um I don't know if we intentionally steered away from those sorts of people or those types of beers but I don't know, just just kind of

into doing our thing which is a bit more sort of in the middle. It's not we don't want to make bland bear or anything like that but um we're definitely not trying to blow people's faces off at the same time. I think people just like a good a good quality beer and um something that they're sort of proud to be drinking I guess would sort of sum up our our target audience.

Guys, what's the what's the plan? What's uh the next three years hold? Do you guys wanna I guess just keep growing organically? Do you want would you love to see your beer going into Melbourne or going into Brisbane or going across to Perth, Adelaide? What's the plan? I mean we do do a little bit interstate, it's sorta case by case at the moment. So yeah, I handle that side of the business now I guess. So I'm the point of contact for venues and

Um yeah, so we will send stuff. I'm originally from Brisbane, so we've got some good relationships up there. We send stuff there every month, sort of just I guess pop up every now and then. Same with Adelaide and then starting to in Melbourne as well. So

I mean, I I might be naive but I don't really ever see us being like a full on national sort of beer company that you see in most bottle shops and stuff like that. Oh, happily be that but I mean I don't really I just don't see it but maybe that's just yeah, like I said, me being naive but Um yeah, obviously we're growing pretty quickly, like we've doubled in the last sort of six to eight months.

Which has been unexpected. But yeah, I I mean we're just gonna I think we've still got a way to go. Like we haven't really scratched the surface of what's happening at the moment. Like we spoke about before, we've always just kinda had our head down and

and worked hard, but I think we could probably take it a little bit further if we wanted to and and that's obviously employing some more people to give us a hand and stuff like that. So I think that's the general route is we'll just kinda keep plugging away and Um, Glenn wants a new brew house so he can talk about that's probably next step for him. Is it big enough? Yeah, nah, it's uh it's just big enough right now and um Yeah, I guess the phone keeps on ringing and and Matt's

sending more and more peer outs uh starting to stress me out already and we only got a few we got extra tanks about a month or so ago. So um yeah, there'll be some a few changes around here in that regard. So I think we're gonna double the size of the brew house, get some more tanks, um Yeah, maybe a job on the line after that happens as well. Or job up for grabs, sorry, not on the line. Um yeah, so that's exciting. That's kind of just what I'm starting to think about.

Probably when you guys leave. Hopefully that's not a hand on our back showing us the door. Um there was a fairly punchy article on Bruce News last week that you might have seen uh talking about selling out to the big guys isn't the only way to to expand. you uh buying new tanks or you're working out how to buy new tanks, um how are you gonna f how are you gonna finance uh your your expansion? Uh good question. Um we've

We've always managed to do it by ourselves, which has been great. I guess going direct to people in China who sell gear always helps. Unfortunately it's not that great for people working in the industry in Australia. Um

Sorry about that guys. But um Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, that that keeps the costs down I guess. Yeah, we've just been kinda lucky I guess like what when when things like that have been required we've had you know, breaks come about like the exercise rebates and things like that, so we've always managed to pull it together quite last minute, which is good. be super skint in other areas for a minute so we can get our tanks in. So we're just gonna do it. Had th th they've never been like

humongous upgrades, you know, where you walk into this place overnight and it's like a completely different brewer. It's just, oh, there's another three tanks and a hot hot liquor tank and whatnot. So, yeah. Don't know about the next the next one but see. But it is one of those things that like you y you guys started home brewing, um where It becomes a hobby and now you've got looking at how nice this space is, you've got a lease, you've got staff, you've got stainless, you need to expand.

That must come you know, d d does there come a point when the passion for just making beer um gives way to the stress of business or do you know i i do do you find yourself waking up at two or three o'clock in the morning wondering about making that next uh bank payment or w wondering about how your Oh w one thing I should have mentioned before as well is just

what I would say is the importance of a tasting bath for us. Um, I guess we probably saw it when we were at Young Henry's, you know, people were in there drinking every weekend and stuff and they'd get quite a crowd and we sort of knew that was a good thing to do, obvious for obvious reasons, cash flow, you get paid straight away. Um and yeah. I know other people have talked to me about setting breweries up and stuff and they've talked about not being so retail focused and I've

sort of advised them that it's been pretty important for us to stay alive and be able to you know keep up with expansions and do the things we've done is having this place open and yeah it's been very good. Guys one of the biggest

um I guess barriers to people doing that that I've heard um anecdotally in the past is that like uh I d I do brewing, I I love what I do, but I'm not a hospitality person, so that's totally out of my leg. I don't want to get into something that I you know, it's just not my bag. Did you guys get someone in specifically or did you kind of have enough confidence to do it or did you learn it as you as you went, Matt? Um yeah, we've never really been hospitality dude.

I guess the beauty of a brewery tasting bar is you're just serving well we're just serving middies and ponies of beer so it's not I'm not shaking up cocktails or anything like that. Um, although the s the watermelon pills and this uh a a beer cocktail or something.

Um yeah, I mean it's it's pretty simple service, you know what I mean? And um I guess we've just spent our fair share of time in venues and stuff like that, so we kinda knew what we wanted. But yeah, as As Glenn said and I was saying earlier, I bel without the face to face interaction we wouldn't have survived.

Yeah, and it's just important for people to step into this world for us as well as we've tried to create this brand and they can be in touch with it and understand a bit more what we're about, which helps you outside in your venues and stuff like that.

Who laid out the bar um and m most importantly who chose not to go with the white rectangular tiles that every other subway tiles. Yeah, but every other uh tap room in the country I think has white rectangular um tiles and you've gone black, you've put them at an angle and you've actually got a board around Whose idea was that and congratulations for doing something that's vaguely different? Yeah, I guess um well collectively we we can all claim it but

We kind of take a bit of inspiration from old decor of pubs and stuff like that. So you see the mirror behind you, even the old taps that we use, it's kind of like a running theme for our brand. happen pretty naturally over time. I suppose our MO is to look at what everyone else is doing and try to do something else, you know. Just not follow the trends, I guess. I blame Garage Project. I reckon they were the first ones to put subway tiles in their tap room and then everyone said me too.

Cafes are doing it as well. It's so two thousand and seventeen.

Well guys we've talked about one uh new beer you've got coming up which is the coffee beer collaboration with um The Alchemist? Is the Alchemist? Sorry. That's the brewery. Uh Coffee Alchemy. Um what else is on the cards for you guys? Um and where can people find the beers? I mean, yeah, so we've we've got one tank in the brewery that we muck around with and that's a twelve hundred litre tank, um, that we brew something new into every every second or third week. Um

So the next one out of that's peach wheat, which we've done a little while ago, and that'll be on on nitro. So we've been mucking around a lot with nitro beers and kind of believe that's sort of the next wave. It kind of happened a little while ago in Sydney with hand pumps.

Um I think you're gonna start to find a lot more pubs with nitro nitro beers on tap. Um so that's somet that's that's the the next one we're mucking around with. We're just doing the production schedule before over Christmas'cause It's just gonna be Glenn here, so um he's gonna be brewing everything. Oh well it's all all watermelon pilsner then. Yeah yeah. Uh uh a and don't forget pale. Need to keep up. Yeah, new stuff I guess. Uh w we've been playing around with kettle sowers a bit lately.

So we've sort of been refining one that we've done in the past and we're pretty happy with the last batch of that and um we have plans to do another one but uh I won't mention anything about it right now, so keep it under wrap.

Yeah, one one thing we kinda refer to in the brewery, well I do anyway, is um so we've got eight taps down here soon to be twelve, so at any one time we can offer that mu that many out there wholesale. Um but it's becoming so selected so it's only a few venues here and there but Um, we just kinda refer to them as good tank filling beers. So a lot of the stuff that we've done we've done before and it's worked really well.

It's pretty rare that we'll just do one beer and it'll never be brewed again. So we've kind of just got this pretty heavy rotation of different styles and stuff. So I mean our beer list since the new tanks went in has been pretty healthy.

for wholesale. We I've kind of been offering about ten different ones every week. So we kind of just wanted to build up that sort of walking into a pub, what have you got from Grifter this week, not just being known for doing the pail or the watermelon pill snare.

Um and we've got a really good relationship with the Henson which is a pub just down the road and yeah, they love just checking in with us every Monday, what have you got? And they'll just change it every week and it's it's just getting to the point where it's more about Um the different beers than just the one, you know. So it's kind of what we want to be known for. We've spoken a bit about your future and the the plans and looking forward and that sort of thing.

We like to finish with Pacy's poser, which is where I guess we take a bit of a a backwards look and you know hindsight is twenty twenty vision. So if you were able to change one thing knowing now what you know in the six years you've been open, you've got the opportunity, uh no strings uh attached. No holds barred, you can change one thing, what would you change? In terms of just how we've utilised the space inside this warehouse, um, cold storage, I I I would

triple or quadruple that. Um, I think it's gonna become more and more important. I mean obviously I know how important it is, but I mean we've got more and more beer coming out, so I just wanna store it correctly and see it go out the door in the best possible shape. Um so yeah, that's I guess you're talking about future plans for next year and whatnot and that's definitely on the cards. So the size

storeroom I'm looking at, um, th there's not really anywhere for it to go. And here's Yeah, i I think m office might have to go oh, have to knock that out. Yeah, so we'll see. Yeah, I guess that's one thing people always say when they come into this brewery is it's so big, you got so much room, but by the time you keg off two tanks worth of beer or you line up the cans for the next canning run, you've got grain delivery, there's nowhere for anything to go, so um

Yeah. Even it might sound greedy but a bigger space would have been good, but I'm I am very happy with this with this warehouse. Yeah. Alright well guys uh we'll let you get back to your day. Thanks so much for having us in here and letting us try um some fantastic beers and I'm gonna present you both with um some bruised news merch. Uh a bar blade each. Um use them with pride on your cans. Yeah, uh and um best of luck for the future. Cool. Thanks guys, thanks for coming down.

That was Matt King and Glenn Wignall. If you enjoy Radio Bruce News and Beer as a conversation, please rate us and leave a review on your favourite podcasting app, like iTunes. We look forward to joining you next time for another conversation about beer.