99 – Willie Simpson

Bruce News. My name is Matt Kirkegaard, founder of Australian Bruce News. And as ever, I'm joined from afar by my good friend, colleague, and all-around good beer guy. Pete. Welcome back. Uh yeah, thanks Matt. Thanks listeners. And uh and yet it was not three hours ago I think that I was uh

in sunny Brisbane with you and I'm now in very cold and rainy Melbourne. Literally just walked in the door. Um actually I just remembered I've haven't not only have I not unpacked my bags, but I've got beer in my bags that probably needs to get out of my bag and and be uh returned to its upright position uh with its uh tray table stove.

And um then uh but look, this this comes first. I think there's probably a bit to chat about and uh we should neither dilly nor dally. That's true. So near and yet so far we spent so much time in the same city and barely caught up. It was that busy.

Yeah, and look at that's part of the uh for those who uh unaware, the Australian Craft Ruiz Conference, A C D C version uh four point oh. So the um Two thousand sixteen, the fourth uh and uh probably not even arguably, uh I think by far and away, uh the best in terms of uh attendance, in terms of the program, in terms of the location, uh The trade expo was magnificent. There was just a bit of everything, but it does mean that when you get just under five hundred people

uh all pretty much in the same precinct, literally. Uh you're going to kind of uh look at everyone and see no one. Um kind of get a couple of chats and a couple of um opportunities to to get together but We we were lucky I guess that we had our uh A little bit of time to put an interview in the can um before the conference started, but uh yeah we we literally tagged team

on stage, as you came off I went on and th and that was about it. Well that that was perhaps the the the best illustration of our of our time when uh Yesterday I had um Dr Michael Shaper from the A triple C on stage. The session before ran late by fifteen minutes and I had to be off stage at a certain time to take

Tim Lord and Doug Michael and uh Adrian Slaughter um from the conference to the A tr A A B C studios to record a uh you know something that we we we we couldn't or to go live and have an hour talking about craft beer on ABC radio. So Uh you jumped on stage and answered. the questions, uh or took the questions for me and uh that was pretty much how we passed like ships in the night. I described the conference It it it's a little bit like being at your wedding where you know everybody and so

You never get to finish a sentence with any one person that you're speaking to because the next person that walks past you know and they greet you and you're saying good day and suddenly you're dragged into a another competition. Or a conversation. It's not a competition.

What time did you what time did you leave the awards last night? Uh I left when they shoveled it. Oh I can't it was just Four days of I've I've only literally just finished uh doing another uh radio interview and I try to explain to the presenter that I'm a little bit husky. because I've spent the last three days talking about beer and not drinking beer and he for some reason didn't believe me. At all. Yeah. At all. But uh very good.

Last night at uh eleven, just as I were ushering everyone quietly out into the street. Um We won't we won't uh name them all individually because I'm sure you could all refer back to uh Australian Bruce News.

for all the details I'm sure I I didn't even see James Atkinson last night was was how busy he was uh tapping away there somewhere in the background in a in an alcove somewhere to get all the results um up on uh social media and then I assume I so I haven't I hardly even had time to open the laptop yet, but I assume that there's uh the results in detail on the website.

The the complete list is on on the website. But yeah, actually d uh I might just give a shout out to James, uh who's who's our editor and you're probably to listeners the least the the the least visible member of the uh Australian Brews news team, but He was reporting from the conference over both days, posting some really good stories about the some of the key things that came out. Yesterday morning we had the uh Thunder Road Stone and Wood decision come down.

um and within minutes of it coming down he had a story posted and before the end of the day had uh you know a a fuller story uh including comments from both of the parties and then last night he was you know, getting around and talking to people and also posted the uh uh a a terrific um you know res results story. He really is a uh you know a a a a pro when it comes to journalism and uh yeah, so I mean you really could say throughout the um

course of uh the the uh conference that you read it here first on Australian Bruce News. So uh you know big big applause for James. Yeah. Well along with uh Kiroly Walcorn, the Beerdeva, I was uh a co host of uh the Craft Ru's conference and I was sitting next to James during the keynote speech by Steve Baxter and honestly I thought he'd shit his dax.

Yeah, I've never seen somebody get up and move so quickly and leave the room. I thought, What's going on? And I thought first thought was I'd better check my phone here and within five minutes the uh the story of the the Thunder Road uh decision being handed down was uh was sitting there in front of me. So so we've done Joe.

Yeah, no, no, a absolute champ. Um now before we move w we'll we obviously can't let that pass without talking about it. And and um um But the the conference itself, you uh mentioned that you and Kirley were co hosting the conference. Just as well you were hosting the conference and not the awards last night properly. Uh oh look it's it uh light space for those who know it, beautiful uh a really beautiful uh space to warehouse to hold functions. But but when you've got

Well look, uh let's let's break this down into in it into its ingredient form. You've got five days, two of judging, two of conference, two bus tours to eight breweries. uh jeez. Three hundred people maybe in the room, um, surrounded by nothing but um concrete, stainless steel and glass, um and a small sound system with a a single voice trying to

get order. Uh oh sorry, and and the most important feature, um the Kegstar silver bullet caravan um of via uh providing free beer on the night uh or included in your in your entry.

It was always going to be a tough gig. Absolutely. So yeah, no, I felt very sorry for the for the people who were uh who were speaking there. Um but um congratulations to Kiryl and I uh having hosted the ARB uh co hosted the ARBAs together this year, we learned very quickly that the uh the easiest way to get uh attention in a room full of brewers on an awards night is is just to say the very simple words and the winner is And then uh then everyone stops and lists.

But when you're trying to tell'em about where the toilets are and how the night's gonna proceed and uh thanking our sponsors and all that sort of thing, there a low murmur in a room like that with that many people uh uh uh letting their hair down at the end of a long week. always going to be uh up against it.

But uh certainly was a great night. Uh congratulations to all the winners. Uh any any special um winners that or anything that particularly jumped out at you, uh Prof? Well, I believe we probably both independently picked as our dark horse. Uh so it's again w in a in a small group, but uh Steve Jeppers led the uh uh I guess the the friendly betting. It's saying you've got to nominate three three brewers, uh at least one of which is going to pick up a a major award.

And we all sort of you know put our nominations in and I think uh Pirate Life was was fairly well represented in that and and did get a green. Uh but I think the two of us, uh I understand independently both kicked green beacon. Uh as you might have even described yeah. I think you I heard you describe uh Steve said that you had described it as your dark horse.

Well the dark horse certainly did it i it came out of nowhere. I don't I don't know w now whether th we can refer to it as a dark horse. I guess it's uh good re good reward for a lot of efforts. you and I with our gig at the Ecker, um and having visited and then used Green Beacons beers um and become, I guess, Kelly, well accustomed to them, uh and also to the improvement in them. to be able to track that uh the improvement since they first started.

And a lot of that's in equipment, some of it's in in processes and some of it's uh you know, in just getting better at what you do and learning from um, you know, w where you can where you can improve. Um I I guess to me it wasn't that much of a surprise. Well i a and when I said Dark Horse I think because when I said Green Beacon, Steve, you know, looked blankly as if, you know, who are they, you know, for for a second because they're they're not a

um household name um outside of Brisbane. And even in Brisbane, you know, they're they're they're if if you look at social media um and craft beer as being, you know, sort of you know, the um you know, cousins of each other, you know, each w wh one drives the other. Um Green Beacon is very under represented in any of the social media hype or the buzz or the, you know, crazy ass collaborations or any any of the sort of stuff that

drives a lot of the online commentary and the the the excitement and gets the beer heeks all fired up. Um but it's been a beer that you and I have uh enjoyed many times. Um and as you said, so I you know, I I I I've been noticing how good their beer has been.

And you and I have been singing their praise for for some time and it's look it it's one of those things that it's you know, great vindication for them oh well not a vindication but great result for them that you don't necessarily if you are just

as uh Tim Cooper would say, sticking to your knitting and getting out at making really good beer, um and focusing on getting those things right. Um You know, the the the the rewards can come and uh Joe, Joe good good bunch of blokes to um to work um with.

Exactly. So uh yeah, Ben I th I think uh'cause we'll be having their culch uh at the exhibition this year and as you said, I think our sales just doubled. Um So we can if yeah, yeah, we well particularly for for uh for Queensland locals who may not know of Green Beacon, uh to walk in now and uh to perhaps see a little sticker on the decal saying, you know, um one of Australia's

uh best cra you know, trophy award winning craft beers. Um I think that that will just it do uh it tick another box that we I guess have as part of our remit um in doing our stand at the ECA, which is to uh give it, you know, shine a bit of light to showcase some of these local small independent uh producers in the same way that uh other other ones there are doing wine and chicken. um and and uh various other projects.

Arguably no real surprises uh that the large champion large brewery was pirate like brewing. It was a a yeah, my tip that they were gonna pick up uh a a major gong and they did, but you know they've just been everywhere, um and you know, kicking goals and uh so you're possi you know, d taking nothing away from'em, but it it wasn't a huge surprise because they have been doing so well. Um

Perhaps the the biggest surprise is that when the uh champion's small brewery, Hope Brewhouse, there was a lot of heads turning around looking quizzically at each other, going, Who are they? Uh well one of them was uh w was the the the young man himself. I think he's gonna look around and go, Did he just save me? Yes. So we we Took him a while to to to actually make his way to the stage and he w he was standing in the front row. Um He didn't know what to say. It was a good thing.

a trophy or at least uh uh been awarded a gold medal in that category. Uh and and I'm not saying yet they didn't but I did I d I don't recall hearing it. But as I say there there were a a couple of minor sound issues so I i it may have just gone through. Um past me but You you have five best scoring beers, uh other ones that determine the uh

small, medium and large champion brewery categories. So there obviously was some uh better than average consist and consistent better than average uh beers entered uh from yeah Hope brew house or brewery Hope Real House that's listed in the uh program. So yeah, there you go. Um uh w we we might have to join the uh no doubt long list of people wanting to uh to have a chat and find out a little bit more about them. We might put them uh on our list. For sure.

Absolutely. Uh well look at I mean apart from that awesome um uh um week. Um, you know, but uh it really shows how the uh CBIA is growing and you know maturing um to be able to pull out uh such a a great conference. Congratulations to Catherine McLean, uh Jason um and who who were really the sort weightlifters um of of of the awards but the whole the whole thing is the programme and event organisers. Yeah.

Um and and and organising. Poor Catherine uh will no doubt be slipping into a coma about now, um and not doing anything for for the next week. But no, it it was it was really awesome to see. I didn't get to as many of the um uh talks as I wanted to, the seminars as I wanted to. I did catch Dick Cantwell yesterday and I thought that that was one of the best uh brewing industry, uh talk

that I've heard. You know, quite often people come along and y you're never quite sure whether it's a s a a stock standard presentation or they've not prepared at all and they're just doing it off the cuff. But Dick had put a lot of thought into what he was saying.

He had made it very relevant to uh from the Brewers Association of Amer you know American Brewers Association's experience and made it very relevant to what was going on in Australia and it wasn't all sunshine and roses and it wasn't um you know i i it it was a a very honest, truthful

caustic on occasion, um, but ultimately uplifting, supportive uh discussion about craft beer, I thought. So uh Yeah, and and and probably worth uh our listeners going back and uh and Googling Dick Camp. Well, particularly with the Elysian brewing um, I guess Bruhaha, um, that that came about with the with the sale of a lesion and and that sort of thing and and uh Dickhead, I guess, like, yeah.

spoke very uh candidly about uh his feelings on the whole thing and the and the backlash towards it and and not necessarily to him but uh obviously there was there was a little bit of animus uh there and it's that that's well worth uh revisiting.

to to just put put a lot of what Dick's done into into perspective. Um and I I guess his his words take on a a little bit more depth um as they apply to us.'Cause as you said, he said I'm going to talk about our experience, but just remember that, you know, yours will be ours at at some point.

Hm. So it was uh yeah, so but uh all in all, congratulations to all involved in the uh uh in C BIA in the conference, all of the presenters, everyone involved in uh the the the trophy winners it was it really was I don't I I think we might have to open up a little bit of everything is awesome, uh, after that that that chat.

That's only your theme song but uh no no happy to share it, not a not a problem at all. And um an even more awesomeness is the announcement that uh look out Adelaide because uh we're coming at you round about this time next year for uh A C B C two thousand and seventeen. I missed that announcement. That's very exciting. There you go. Um now uh other big news that uh we we had we had the uh Pacific Ale um Uh just uh decision come down yesterday. Judgment yesterday and uh I didn't know. But uh

Yeah. What did you think? Speaking of yes, or speaking of which uh w I w I I'm pretty sure that we can post the judgment. I'm not sure. We'll I'll check the whether there's any copyright'cause I hate to get in trouble uh for posting a for copyright infringement of a trademark case. Um but we'll we'll we'll we'll see. But yeah, 126 pages, still working uh my way through it. Um but I I I guess the shorthand summary is it

I think the only way you can describe it is a resounding um loss uh from Stoner Wood's point of view. Um they they they they they lost a case with costs and uh also potentially damages uh I I I I believe. Um the in in terms of what it means, probably best we might look at getting a uh intellectual property uh lawyer on who is familiar with the case um to give some observations and and discuss it because I think a lot of people have been

saying that it was a trademark case. Um it was actually uh I I think what's called a passing off case where the the the uh Suggestion was that Thunder Road was passing its Pacific Ale off as Stone and Wood's Pacific Ale or try you know attempting to you know make it look so similar to confuse the consumer, um as opposed to a straight trademark and whether it's Stonewood um Um so there were some trademarking elements to it.

Um but it wasn't strictly a trademark case. Um one of the interesting things that came down was that the judge uh did find that Pacific Ale isn't a beer style. Um So yeah, so Pacific A so I I don't know what that means in terms of trademarkability, um but i it does mean that uh Thunder Road wasn't um passing itself off as stone and wood. Um

You know. Uh I it do I don't know if you've waded through the uh the judgment your prof? No, no. Haven't had a chance. Hm. I mean look I'll nor a heap of interest, I have to admit. At the at the risk of sounding disinterested, but uh yeah, no, uh uh a hundred and twenty pages of legalese i is probably not um not at the top of my reading list.

just at the moment. But having said that and I don't want to make this sound like I, you know, have one handy on retainer for, you know, anything that I might have been involved in, but I may have I think access to an IP lawyer who may be able to just uh uh you know summarize uh or or give us a few, you know, tasty quotes. So we'll uh just talk about what it means. Yeah. Well I I I've also there's one

uh trademark stuff for us in the past as well so I might even uh so we might even uh compare experts. But anyway, yes. And uh not that not that I'm suggesting that to any to yourself or to any of our listeners that, you know, uh you're now, you know, uh forced to go and do unseemly things at night in car parks or anything like that. But uh you're looking for a new job obviously, the um your your first and last effort as a as an expert witness.

Uh oh actually th that isn't in disclosure, I was called as a an expert witness. Um now uh that's as the court's expert witness as opposed to a party's, but I was called by Stone and Wood and they covered the cost of getting me there. Um I I I I don't know. My the the w when I read the the the judgment um and my name is liberally peppered through it, um uh what I said seemed to be accepted. Uh oh okay. So Yeah.

But uh well it w what what I said seemed to be acceptable. I thought you were gonna pull uh I thought you were gonna pull a Daryl Kerrigan when the uh when the judge ordered for the plaintiff and he went, Yes, No, that's not us Daryl, that's them. No, well well that's one of the things, like you're there to assist the court um and they you know, both sides ask you questions, there's cross examination and the judge asks a few questions to to to clarify and uh then it's just you know

the the things that I said seem to have been accepted by the court. It just doesn't seem to have helped Stonewood's case. So um Well, never mind. Yeah. Uh yeah Yeah, look, spoke to the guys uh immediately after and then again last night and it's fair to say that it's i it's been a bit of a you know, an interesting sandwich of a day, uh in in terms of all the bookends, you know, the way it started to the to the way it finished. Um

uh onwards and upwards. You know, i you roll the dice and and and sometimes it comes up Snake eyes or I don't know. I don't know. I don't it perhaps i in Sna whi whichever one is bad. I don't I don't do any sort of gambling games, you know, that are named after Pooh, so um uh I may be using a a poor analogy there, but yeah, rolls it on. And you know, you you've got to Just accept.

The the judge's decision, literally. Absolutely. And uh I mean we it had there was a lot of uh engagement on the Facebook page. It was one comment from our our our good friend and listener Paul Pacy. Um in on the actual page. I might uh he commented uh look out for Thunder Road's new guard nail coming to a bottle shop near you soon. Um uh yeah, tongue poke out. uh motocon. Uh the above line was of course a joke. I think Thunder Road using the same name as Pacific Ale is

disrespectful to a company that goes out of its way to grow the craft beer industry in Australia. Their decision to pursue their use of a beer name that only exists due to their massive investment by Stone and Wood. goes against the established practices of smaller brewers collaborating to better the industry for all smaller brewers. Maybe Thunder Ode could spend more time innovating and creating ideas for themselves instead of using lawyers to establish their right to operate their business.

The back of other people's creativity and ingenuity. Thunder Road may have the le may have the legal win, but I think they may lose out here uh more than they realise. So I I thought that's quite a

Um an an interesting perspective um from our commenter. Um and not uncommon, I think, Matt. It's fair to say. And and but again, I I I guess that this case shows that, you know, whether it's disrespectful, whether it is um uncreative or non innovative, that's not you know Craft beer is a big boy's game. Um, we talked about it on the last podcast how many, you know, conflicting brewery names there are and different uh you know

it it it's not just a uh gentlemen's club where, you know, ooh, you've used that name first. Um if you're entitled to use it, I guess people are gonna if if you're entitled to do it, people are gonna do it. And uh that's just how it is. So anyway, um Precedent is definitely set. So we'll yeah, be i it is it'd be interesting to see uh if and when uh a similar case arises.

Um i i if if we uh if we wanted an interesting discussion about it, certainly get our good friend uh Mazan Hajar on to uh uh to talk about it. He was very quickly uh giving me a bit of in your face, I told you I was right. um out o outside the the conference room. He's got very strong views about it. So anyway, um that was the Sonnawood case. Uh good coverage from James Atkinson on our website. Um mate

We we might go straight into our uh interview. Um we did manage to get an hour together and uh time for a very quick beer and a a chat with um Willie Simpson, um who is But i d he's a bloke that inspired me and I learned a lot from in getting into craft beer a a decade and a half ago and as he acknowledges in this chat he's probably not known by a lot of the new generation of beer bloggers or beer drinkers.

He's speaking of Stone and Wood, he has been uh just collaborated with them on a forefathers beer that Stone and Wood have brought out a couple of times to uh in a lead up to Father's Day, um where they celebrate the people uh who have pioneered and inspired them. Um last year it was Phil Sexton, this year it's uh Willie Simpson. Um maybe you had much to do with Willie Simpson? I have I have a a little bit, um just a a couple of visits to visits to Tasmania, um and

Sydney Craft beer week, I think the very uh the first C C BIA awards. I had a good chat with Willie, he was uh the recipient of the um achievement awards. um for for recognition for uh of his fine work um for the craft beer gig. Uh and yeah, I've I've had a the chance to have a couple of chats with Willie.

He's uh yeah, no, uh fair to say he is a fantastic beer rider, uh w a a a wonderful brewer, um But I'd say that y often a uh taciturn uh acoustic might be a little bit over I overspeck it, but it it's a Y listeners, you're about to get Willie at his absolute best, uh having a great chat about craft beer, so uh let's have a chat to Willy. Oh, thanks for having me. Uh I I

just saying that Prof uh when we were talking about it it was a very opportune time for us to uh be offered the chance to have a chat to you because we're coming up to a hundred episodes and we haven't ever spoken to you and you're one of the people who I would most like to speak to. So thank you very much for your time. I guess um well nominally uh we we're speaking to you because you are officially now a forefather of the Australian craft beer seam. Apparently.

Well we'll we'll talk a little bit about that in the the s uh Stone and Wood Forefathers uh annual release.

Uh well actually it's probably a good time to talk about that a little bit now that you know Stonem would uh um have invited various uh important personages to collaborate with them on a beer, um to celebrate Uh you know, some of the people that have made the current craft beer um landscape possible and uh uh that they've previously brewed with Phil Sexton and I believe you are their second forefather.

Yeah, that's right, as far as I know. And and look y yeah, look, it's flattering, obviously, to be approached for something like this and uh I guess you have to have been around for a while to to get the full father tag. Um, look I think y you know, I guess it's it's important for any boys and girls, anyone under thirty five, to to remember there was a there was a craft brewing industry last century. And uh believe it or not, I made some sort of a living out of

uh um, writing about it mainly for newspapers and and magazines. And this this is the pre digital age, of course. I'm talking about boys and girls. We yeah, we d you probably started using a typewriter or something ridiculous like that. In the early days indeed, indeed. I can still remember being in a non computer work well we we we had typewriters not not uh

not laptops or computers. But yeah, look, I I guess um i it's it's a funny old industry that's absolutely turbocharged at the moment. So I I'm I'm aware that, you know, half the people involved in it uh may not know who I am. But that's that's fine.

And and and that was one of the reasons why we wanted to introduce you because you have been uh I mean you you're certainly uh someone that inspired me to write uh anything other than uh, you know, feer and cricket stories or, you know, beer and football um advertising stories that there was actually something that was uh worth serious uh understanding and appreciation um of craft beer. And I I still think that your book, uh, Amber and Black is one of my favourite uh introductory

craft beer books, um, you know, a as a as a primer and in in an an introduction to uh to the Australian craft beer scene. Oh, thanks for that. And and interestingly enough, I I was flicking through it again for the first time in several years recently and

My God, it's changed, you know, the the a lot of the beers I reviewed then and the well, some of the breweries only just appeared, like little creatures. It was brand new off the you know, open. Um So it reminded me of how much um beer had got under the bridge in in in fifteen years actually by

Since that book came out. Yep. Well th well that's a theme that uh Peter and I come back to and you you alluded it to before when you said that n not everyone would know who you are. Um Th there there seems to have been a fifteen year window uh where little creatures came on the scene around about two thousand and uh

It's probably one of the beers that really kick started um popular um what we now see as popular um appreciation of beer. But so many people who are working in the industry, who have opened craft beer bars or have opened breweries, when you speak to them, Uh yeah, they're they're referencing back to a beer that they consumed, you know, maybe five or six years ago as being their inspiration. Um yeah, and you've been writing about beer for how long now?

Uh well I've actually given it up over the last three years. But I I I guess I wrote about it for the best part of twenty five years up to three years ago. So um look I one of the things you have to point out there wasn't there wasn't as much to write about. Um I'm I'm happy I inspired other people to

go down the road less travelled because I've got to tell you, um, you know, selling beer stories to to editors was pretty hard work in the early stages and I I I was regarded I guess as a bit of a novelty act Um, and then y you know, I don't know, sometime in the nineteen nineties, especially the late nineteen nineties, the the the world of public relations discovered people like me and nurtured me and um you know they would fly me here, there and everywhere for the opening of a fridge.

and I would Julie write about the new beer that was in the fridge and um they were happy. So I guess, you know, if you want the truth, I I I I turned a a part time job into a into a full time career. um with a part time income. But it w you know it seemed like a lot of fun at the time and it was. Um but I'm glad others have come along to to to pick up the baton, as it were, and I've moved on to something different.

Th these days if you're happy to snap a uh Instagram photo they'll fly you around the country. Yes. Which which I have people doing for us. Not me.

But uh but I I I I remember that we I think th that the first time that we met was uh in Bushy Park when uh I I'd been flown somewhere. I'd gotten on the gravy ch train, I was very happy at the uh at the privilege and You you told me back then I d I think you were working for a uh a publishing company um and sold them the idea of a beer magazine, uh way back in the

late eighties? Yes, yes, yes, we can go back that far. And it was and um it it was obviously a more general I mean there were things like Cooper's Brewery and certainly the the the first um version of Matilda Bay was on the scene and and and I guess for me as a working journalist who'd been done a bit of travelling overseas, got a taste for you know, something other than the... the the sort of the mainstream Australian neck oil that was on offer then.

Um and when these first Matilda Bay bears started arriving on Tap in Sydney, you know, uh a few of us were were trailblazers I guess'cause we w we were trying them. And that very quickly led me to um Shara's little brewery out in Picton. Um and I guess we can you know, this was one of the inspirations, if you like, for the forefather brewery ended up doing because Uh apart from being a very unique individual, Jeffrey Sarah, um

He his brewery produced a um a dark Bok beer called Barrigarang Bock. I can't tell you exactly might have been the late eighties, early nineties. It was a beer that, you know, might have just tipped me into um taking that road less travelled, writing about beer and and even contemplating although I wasn't at the time, but you know, somehow infl influential and getting me into the actual craft brewing game and it was a wonderful

uh strong black, smooth, chocolatey lager that was very good for a while and then never quite the same. And and I don't know. There's a lot of beers I could say like that and I'm not sure whether it's

something that happened. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? And and I could say that about Cooper's Sparkling Ale, I could say that about a whole lot of other beers. But anyway, that's that's beside the point. Um I um so when I was approached by Brad Rogers at Stone and Wood to to think about a beer we might do for the Four Fathers Brew, I I got off the phone from him and about ten minutes later I thought, Well, you know Would be fun to do a a a dark brown, almost black double box.

Um,'cause it's not a style that is in favour. I mean it's not not a style of B U C trotted out by many of the what is it, four hundred craft breweries in Australia at the moment. Uh um and yet it should be, because it's it's um

You know, there's room for all these different classical styles of air. So there it was one that I suppose had been tucked away in a bottom drawer somewhere as a possible project to seven sheds and when I got the opportunity to play around on the the the automated toys they've got up in the Bar and Bay Brewery, the original one.

Um anyway, that that's what we decided to do and that's what we brewed. Uh Willie, for those who uh perhaps don't know you as the Willie Simpson the beer rider, I'm sure there will be plenty out there that do know you as Willie Simpson the brewer. from uh Seven Shedsbury in Tasmania, up in Railson there in the in the north of Tasmania. Um Did the beer brewing uh well?

Hard and the pun, but did did that idea kind of brew as you were writing or had you always thought, uh, I'd like to one day brew my own beer or was it I'm sick of writing, I might as well brew some beer? um career path like that or or anything. Um I I suppose y you know, it when I was a beer writer I was a little frustrated by some of these so called craft beers that were supposed to be this and that that were made from these

all these ingredients, uh the right hops and that. Um but this didn't deliver on flavour and complexity and I think it was that you know, there was almost uh uh people being afraid to let go. Uh i any beer they made had to be filtered, had to be um I don't know. Uh cosmetically um lessened or something like that. So perhaps there was something in there and I thought, well I you know, I'd visited plenty of farmhouse breweries in places like Belgium and realised that um you didn't need

expensive shiny pots and pans to turn out pretty flavoursome ales, as they mainly were. Um so I look at yeah, all sorts of reasons why we ended up opening seven sheds, but one of them was we could

Uh, it didn't involve going along to a bank manager and borrowing a whole lot of money. We were able to do it fairly low debt from the property my that my partner Catherine and I own. So um Yeah, you know, I d I I don't think there was always a burning plan to open a craft brewery, but I do know that we certainly did it at the right time.

Um and for the right reasons. And uh we're ac actually at an interesting stage now where we're sort of thinking, Okay, well, this industry's going off as far as you know, a new brewery opening somewhere in Australia every week. Um, what do we do? And it you know, that's quite an interesting challenge too. So, um You know, that's that's all risk for the mill, as it were.

And look at the risk of pumping your tires up any any further, um it's certainly in the last few years there's been an explosion in the uh the number, in the depth, in the um the skill and in the hospitality offering of um of Tasmanian uh breweries. And there's the Tasmanian uh beer trail and all those sorts of things that it's really sort of, I guess, come off the back of a

I guess springboarded off the tourism side of things rather than necessarily just the beer side of things. Um and so I guess uh look i it wouldn't be unfair to suggest that you perhaps uh with your involvement in with Tasmanian tourism have have driven a little bit of that um excitement.

Oh I'm not claiming any credit for that, Pete. Um look most of what you're talking about is happening down south and I believe it's because of a uh one of the best free well free to Tasmanian art museums in the world, Mona. So you've got a little city called Hobart that's just going off at the moment. It's um they're building, you know, a thousand hotel rooms as we speak and they need another thousand immediately. There's a new restaurant craft brewery popping up every couple of minutes.

So look y what you say is true, most of it's happening down south. I'm still up in uh you know, little old Sleepy old rail north west Tasmania. Which is why it's good to get it out every now and then.

Town of many Topries, uh Ed Railton. And and right next door to uh the town of Mural, Sheffield. So it it's all happening up that way. You g you get off the spirit of Tasmania, you can go and have either a seven sheds beer, perhaps uh pop over to Van Diemen, uh or um Uh St Joan Craft in um craft bar in uh in Launceston which is doing a lot of really uh like showcasing a lot of the

uh the island states uh beers as well. So it's it it literally is all happening. But not j not just down No, no, no, no. And and that was a lovely thing. I had the opportunity, um, I mean the last book I wrote was I I went up to Byron Bay eight years ago when I was researching the latest last book I wrote, the the the Australian Deer Companion. Um certainly would have only been going a couple of months. Um I think Brad was basically doing everything himself.

Um to visit it nine years later and see their brand new plant in Muillenbar and you know the fact that he's got sixty or seventy full time employees. Um and also did a little road trip in reverse uh down Victorian high country and visited um Ben Krause at Beechworth.

Bridge Road Beef Beechworths and the guy uh Dave Eddett Bright Brewery. And again I'd been there on that same trip well, eight and a half years ago. And very interesting to see where those three different players have have come in the time. And um y you know, I guess if you it's very soon we're all be celebrating our tenth anniversary and and it seems to me to have gone past in a blur, but it's a very significant as you guys know, very significant and

packed with new openings, new players, new all sorts of new things. It's um I guess it's a bit what's happening in social media digital. compressed into, you know, a a a very small span of time. And um I don't know where it's all leading but it's gotta be great for the industry because if nothing else

It's great for all the suppliers'cause they've got four times as many customers as they had w when when we all when I started up eight years ago anyway. So Uh I on that note, I mean Tim Lord uh w when you speak to him, uh yeah, he he's quite frank that saying that in the nineties, for example,

uh the the the Australian hop industry was you know very precarious in whether or not we continued to produce hops because when it was just purely commodity hops um we we couldn't compete and craft beer has been the saviour of that and we've started to see uh Brewers talk about the quality of malt and uh the the real angst a arising over uh whether or not.

uh beer and and craft beer in particular can revolutionise the growing of malt and having a lot more farm moultings um spring up. And it's all great and and and and you did right. I mean

ten years ago when I was writing about the industry the the the Tasmanian hop industry was absolutely in the doldrums. Um and and that was one of the reasons we decided to set up a little mini hop garden at Seven Sheds. And around that time the same company, HPA, closed down a a hot garden they had up in the north west of Tasmania at Guns Plains and that's where I bought the

the p you know, the poles and the wires and the cables to build our hop garden. Now I've got to say the hop garden's been a little bit neglected because I've been busy sort of making and marketing beer. But guess what we're doing this winter with the world shortage of hold We're refurbishing the hot garden, we're planting replanting a couple of new varieties, and we now see that well, A, it's great to have a um

a a a secure supply of some of our hops. It's not going to go very far. But also that we should be making more of a um a unique thing about it because we now make three distinct hop harvest beers at seven shed. um from hops we grow on site and not not every one of the four hundred craft brewers in Australia can do that I guess. So so we're reevaluating, you know, where we've come from and where we can go and um and and and as you've said, uh

The world has an appet well, the world craft beer industry has an appetite for Tasmanian aromatic hops and Australian aromatic hops. So um they're either going to be in short supply at high price or you can grow them yourself. Speaking of Tasmanian breweries, um and and and hops, um one one of the uh annual visits that I I I paid to you was uh whenever I was down for the Hop Harvest Ale um at at Cascade. Um to to stand back and watch I mean it is still one of the earliest

fresh harvest ales I can find in this new generation of uh craft beer uh brewing. Of course they they pioneered it, they kept it going and they seem to have let it go now. Yeah. Um Yeah, I mean that's interesting isn't it, that a big brewery back then, when it was Foster's sore

I I thought it was a very clever possibility of highlighting all those local ingredients. But, you know, as happens with ideas that end up going through a large brewing system, the ideas get watered down. Um And they yeah, I don't know if you remember, they also around the same time came out with a the four seasons range of beers and I was talking with someone else the other day and and they said, Well it was a great idea.

And and it was, but again it just sort of got lost between, you know, the brewers and the marketing department and and I guess you could say, well, they were a bit ahead of their time. Um And it's a pity it didn't catch on. But but if nothing else it certainly um you know it puts Tasmanian hop industry and the the barley growers on the map. And um it wasn't an original idea but but but you're right. Now um

I think every second crafty worth their salt is making a a green hot harvest ale, except us. We drive'em to spending out this other store.

But I mean y you have been riding and and I I I don't want to dwell too long on the length of time you've been riding, but you have been riding for a long time and uh I mean I got m uh as Pete likes to say he described you know turning eighteen you get your beer drinking license.

Um and I I remember back in the late eighties there was a bit of an explosion of craft breweries and uh we we had a couple in Brisbane um and we saw a lot of breweries spring up, but most of them went by the wayside and that was something that was very uh Um front of mind for me when we saw the Great Explosion now.

there seems to be a fundamental difference between the uh craft breweries of the nineteen eighties, early nineties and now in that beer tastes seem to have changed as well. Do you uh have any perspective on on on on that yourself? Oh, look yeah, I do. But I I guess, you know, for me it's I don't get out of out and about as much as I used to, except that trip I just told you about. But yeah, look I'm you know, I think what I see is um a lot of our

six thousand odd visitors a year who come to come through our cellar door. The the what what I love is is what I call the young drinkers and of course anyone under But forty five's young to me. But I I mean people you know, let's say someone thirty ish, I think they've got far more beer knowledge than I had at that age. And I think they've got certainly got a lot more bear culture, beer knowledge. Um

than most people w would have had. And You know, I think you know, eight year opening a craft brewery eight years ago in north west Tasmania. was, you know, not the not necessarily the cleverest thing to do, but it was the it was the right time'cause people understood, even people who didn't consume craft beer at the time understood the concept. And I think uh very rapidly, incredibly rapidly, that um that that whole generation, um, that are younger than me, uh, have have have grasped it and um

you know, I think it's I I see very healthy signs for it because it's being driven from the consumer upwards and and, you know, the very passionate consumers are going to end up working in the industry too. So I don't quite know, you know, how we're gonna

train these people in any formal way. I know there's there's various channels. Um what I like at Seven Sheds is we we've trained a series brewers, we're now on our fourth brewer. It's a bit difficult because of our small artisan production. It's never going to be a full time job. So, you know, we've had pretty good people who who've been around for a couple of years and they move on.

and a couple of them have stayed in the industry. Um, notably uh Evan Hunter, who's now the head brewer Brunei Island uh brewery which is part of Green Island Cheese. Um and but I think that's that's sort of what the industry has to do, that that it's almost got to self train and then produce this generation that some of them are gonna go out and start their own things, not all of them.

But yeah, there is a legitimate um career path now and there are opportunities might be a little move and bust but I but I still think it's you know, it's pretty um sure bet that th there's gonna be work in the craft beer industry for for a long time to come. So yeah, look you know, I I was probably guilty of being the world's greatest optimist and talking up the industry, you know, about twenty years before I probably should have.

Uh but I'm still an optimist and I'm part of the industry, so hey, I've I've I've got skin in the game. But I'm very optimistic about what's happening. Yeah, well Willie this new generation they're they're sort of a little bit slow to catch on, so it may have taken you twenty years but they eventually got

Yeah. Yeah, which doesn't necessarily show the power of the pen or whatever. But yeah, look it's a different it's a different landscape and and things are changing incredibly rapidly and and I can't quite get my head around all of them. But um I I I like the fact we're pushing boundaries. I I I think there's gotta be good reason to make a beer out of of some strange ingredient. And I'm not sure whether the whale vomit or the the the the naval fellow quite works.

local ingredients that that are grown around us and that seems to make sense that you're tapping into other food and beverage networks and your You know, you're showing the the the terroir, the place where you come from and and what's possible there. So um You know, I don't know.

if I'd want to try all these exotic beers but I I like the fact that people are uh there's no boundaries anymore really. Uh are there? And we should point out to perhaps some of our viewers who are who are familiar with your beers that uh the Willy Warmer was not one of those uh exotic ingredient beers that was

Uh well not literally, no, no. It does have some spices in it. But um yeah, look and that's the other thing. I mean I I realised very early on at seven sheds Yes, we had a cellar door and people were coming in and we were selling beer, but w what we were really selling was our stories. You know, we're we're in the tourism business and people love the idea that a little town with quirky little topery and there's a a couple who who have opened a craft brewery and are making beer.

Um and then they can see where it's made. They can see where the hops are growing or some of them. Um they get a very c clear idea of w w what the place looks like and and where it's and where this beer is made. Um and and you know, I think you know, I've all I've talked about the upwards of four hundred craft breweries, but I don't think anyone has quite got the model that seven sheds has. I'm not saying everyone should. But I you know, I'm a great um I guess

flag flyer for the for the small end of the industry, the artisan end. And I think okay, you know, you do need the volume and everything um to drive the industry, that that's fine. You need the the medium and big players. But but I think there's still room for small, colourful players and and they're an important part of the lens. And and that's what I was gonna ask, Willie, in your experience over the journey, have you found that Uh I guess one of the one of the biggest differences today

uh is the fact that you can put uh a face to to a brewery. Um so people come to your cellar door and and uh immediately realise, hey, I'm I'm talking to the guy who who basically you know brews this beer. Whereas in the past it it was sort of even the the the sort of craft players like Cooper's was sort of seen as a you know a a like a family business, but it wasn't like uh there was Mr Cooper who was the brewer or at C U B or at or or at Lyon or any of those sort of subsidiaries.

Um it was never about I I guess uh you know, a personality. Whereas today you've much you you you mentioned uh Ben Krauss. He's uh Despite the fact that, you know, I mean Ben will gladly admit that he doesn't have to do quite as much work on the tools as he used to, but he is still very much seen as the you know, the figurehead, I guess. Is that important, do you think, for uh for the the artisan brewers?

to to keep surviving today? Yeah, look I yeah, I'd call being a real entrepreneur and a and a successful small businessman. And, you know, th that's part of Yeah, I'm making good beer. and getting it to marketplace is is probably only about half of the battle. I mean the other half is you're in a business and if you're in a small business and if you're in a craft beer business that they're there's some of the toughest ends of the of the business to be in.

Um, but you've got to make it work. And I'm very proud that Seven Sheds after eight and a half years is a successful small business. It sustains myself, my partner. half a dozen um part timers and casuals, but y you know, we have no outside income. Um it's not a huge income, but it's it's self sufficient, it's what we want.

Um so yeah, look I guess there's the wine you know, everyone likes to meet a winemaker at a wine dinner. Um and I guess from my perspective, um and by the way it's it was fairly obvious doing my forefathers brew at Barron with Mr Brad Rogers. He forgot to plug it in, did he? Yeah, look and he had almost as much trouble

coming to grips with as automated brewery as I did. But um y you know, I guess the thing is w when I was a journalist I used to wonder why these blokes from the big brewery called themselves head brewers and walked round in suits and ties and I thought these But that's my situation at the moment. But but it it is an important role because you're still creating the recipes, the brewing schedule, um, coming up with most of the creative ideas.

And and more importantly, having to make sure that all the ingredients and packaging i is in the spot when you need So, um, being a production brewer is actually I hate to disabuse people here, it's a you know, it's a fairly mundane routine. Um which you can get pretty bored with. So w we've always you know, uh the the cleverest thing I did was was make myself redundant on brewery da on brewing days, other than right at the beginning and right at the end. Um

because I had better things to do. And the same token you're allowing other people to come in and bring their sets of skills to the to the operation and I think if you're open to that, all sorts of wonderful things happen. And they've ha that that's what's happened at Seven Shed. may not work in every other model. Um but so yeah, I think um You know, you talked about Ben Kraus people like that.

You know, it's it's a tough game but but essentially you've got to make you've gotta make money and you've you've got to make it a successful business. And I know that people go into it for passion um for romance for all the the the wrong reasons business wise.

Um so you know, when people come to me and say, Look, I you know, I want to open thing I'm gonna open my own sh uh sheep craft brewery I sort of say, Well don't do it, don't do it, don't do it unless Um and what I'm trying to do is just make sure that They know what they're committing themselves to because

Um, I certainly didn't really know what I was committing myself to but but uh but now I do and and it's not for everyone. It's um and especially it may not be for your uh nearest and dearest. So um again, if if if you're gonna

throw in your day job and throw all your life savings into a craft brewery, you better make sure that your partner's a hundred percent behind it. Uh'cause you'cause you may not be behind you in a couple of years or he Yeah, so you know, that's the thing I mean we can all get very romantic about it, but but you know, it is still a business and um you know, a lot of good business sense goes a long way in in the craft.

Now Will Willie, you you talked about how much more educated uh you know the under thirties craft beer drinker is and you know that there's certainly a lot of experience and they they don't have to go seeking out beers. Pretty much any metropolitan hotel is going to have some sort of craft on tap.

Um but at the same time I I I regularly meet people who are very active on uh beer advocate or rape beer and untapped and are very forthright in their opinions about the beers that they're drinking um and they've perhaps never had uh Duval or Rochefort or um Shime, um and some of the beers that were very um palette forming for me and and and and came to be regarded as my the the the the beers that I measured beers against. Um

What are the beers that you think that any uh are there four or five beers that you can list that you think any beer drinker really has to have tried to have tried good beer? No. No, look I don't think so. Um Look, it would help, but they'll get there in the end. Um look, two little interesting experiences. Um uh that last trip through Victoria we we stayed on a small

regional town and Victoria had a couple of pubs. We went down to one for for for dinner with you know, fairly low expectations of a very good dinner. And they they had, despite the the the usual Victorian beer logo outside the pub. They had two craft beers from Tumet. They had um Gossiosco Pale Ale, which is, you know, bulk shovels, but half a craft beer.

Um and I thought, well that's great. You know, it's not just the provincial it's not just the metropolitan areas, you know, it's getting there. Um but then I had another experience because I don't walk into big bottle shops very often, but in Canberra I went into a first choice bottle shop and I saw this wall of craft beer.

But about half of it I didn't recognise and it was only when I put my specs on and read the small print on these brown cardboard boxes that I realised these were sort of virtual craft beers made by Woolworth. So, you know, that's the next frontier is how do we educate um people about where the beer comes from, who owns the brand, is it is it independent? Is it part of something like that? And I guess it's a job for you guys and you've got plenty of time on your

It's all we do, really. It's a it's a full time job. Just just trying to you know wade through that that mire. Um James Smith uh interviewed you uh a couple of times for his books and uh he he often quotes you as saying that when when asked what is craft beer you used to say it's the vibe of the thing. Um

Did you want to expand on a little bit of that? You mentioned craft beer before. Does craft beer have you know, w once you're getting past uh the the the very simple craft beer as a shortcut to saying beer that's not uh V B or Tuies. Um does Craft B have a meeting or should it have a meeting? Uh yeah it should, but it but it you know, it should be a kind of vibe. Yeah. Um look it's it's a tricky one'cause the minute you try and define something

you it escapes. So you know, I at one stage You know, y uh way back we used to try and um define premium beer and I and I asked some marketer from a big brewing company what was his definition of premium beer? for me he'd say, Oh, you know, superior ingredients long and and he said, Oh, it's a higher price point. And and that's true too. So I mean craft beer you know, I I would have thought

You know, half of Cooper's could be called craft beer, but the size they are, can they be? They're still family owned, I don't know. You know, you get into all these grey areas and then as someone a hundred percent owned by a big brewery or an overseas brewery, can they be craft? Um so I that's why I said about the vibe of the thing, I think um y you know, ultimately the customers will care or not care, they'll notice or not notice.

But they will certainly vote with their wallets and their pallets. But that's not to say that we shouldn't be fighting the good fight for the truly independent family owned craft breweries and I think you know, there's a a website or an app in the wine industry that that lists all the where all the different wine brands that you might find in

you know, thirsty Dan shop or something, w whether they're owned by one of the you know, one of the big supermarkets or whether they're independent or whether they're owned by just a virtual marketer with an office in in Adelaide somewhere. And

I think if that information was freely available, peop people would probably tap into it and and that would be good for the the independent players. But you know, what from my experience in Canberra it's getting harder and harder for people to notice. Um so Uh, unless you can come and meet the owner, as you can at Sell at Seven Sheds. Um, y you possibly don't know uh who's behind the beer label that you've just bought for the first time.

in in one of these major chain model shops. So there's there's a bit of post education perhaps needed there with with with the consumers.

Willie, that's pretty much uh all we wanted to to uh talk about. Um maybe just before we go, you have uh referenced Boragarang Bok um as as the beer that you uh influenced uh or inspired your uh forefathers be maybe you can tell us a little bit of uh about you had a chance to try it yet? Um I don't know if it's been nationally released uh yet, but have you had a sneaky uh sample?

No, well I only had a sneaky sample out of the fermenter on the second day, so I didn't really give me much idea. Um, I've seen photos of it sent to my phone. But I believe th they want to give it the full sort of six weeks lagering, which is why we did it, you know, relatively early in mid June. Um, and then I think it's gonna be rolled out from late August right up to and beyond Father's Day. It's it's you know, this sort of being launched around Father's Day.

Um so look I'm very much looking forward to to tasting the final product and um you know, maybe sharing a few of them with with people in bars around Australia. Well I I I believe you are doing a bit of a national tour, so uh people will be able to dig out their old Willie uh Simpson uh beer bible or the uh uh Australian craft beer companion or even the uh amber and black. I'll be uh pulling it out when uh you come to Brisbane to get maybe get a a couple of autographs. Um

Yeah, um so look Will Willie, uh thank you very much for your time. It it's just been a a real pleasure having a bit of a chat to you and uh look forward to having a uh what what are we calling it? We're calling it Willie Simpsons Forefathers. Double box lager or something. Double book lago. Well we're speaking to Brad very shortly, so we'll be able to have a uh uh find out a little bit more about the uh correct way to reference

uh your beer. But congratulations and thank you, uh a as I said to somebody who uh um you know a has been very influenced uh by your writing, uh in to to write about beer and uh I look forward to trying uh and a actually one very last question. Um

You're you're not looking at expanding. We're not gonna see uh Kentish Ale uh available nationally at any stage in uh Uncle uh Thirsty Dam's? No, no, we've we've had a w a very cunning marketing plan for the last three years and we've we've capped the production Um, because we are we have limitations on the site and unlike everyone else we're not we're not interested in perpetual growth. Uh but we we have got a few side projects that we're we're we're looking at uh

around the cellar door and around some sort of sideways movement but I can't say any more than that. No, look I think, you know, we we we could have we looked at that three years ago and it didn't add up for various reasons, but the main reason was for lifestyle. And you're talking to people who who close the brewery and the cellar door in August and get away for a holiday and that was the best thing we did.

Um, so you mean it might seem strange to most people, but also if you think about where this industry is going, particularly in Tasmania with the new players, um, where are we all going to sell the beer? Because there are only a finite number of taps in this island. Um so we're quite happy just to keep plodding on doing our little artisan brewing thing and um yeah we'll just watch the land.

Well, Willie, thank you very much for joining us on Radio Brews News and all the best with the Four Fathers Beer and uh we hope to get to sample one with you uh w when you when you're doing your your tour. I'm sure you will. Thanks, guys. Great talking to you.

Brew's News is made possible by BrewPack, Australia's number one craft contract brewer. With over one hundred craft beers and ciders on the Rost and Counting, Brupac specializes in offering growing craft breweries a home for their packaged and kegged beer no matter how crafty. Serious about handmade beers and with an open door policy, Brupax brewers love having passionate hands on partners in the brewery. Thinking about craft contract brewing, think Brupax.

And uh yes, we thank Brew Pack for not only making a whole lot of great craft beers possible, but also for making this podcast possible. There you go, prof. Uh mate, that was it. I I really enjoyed that chatters. I uh introdu it, you know, so so you can be a little bit um brief or uh Trying to think of uh Well, I I think particularly Matt in the in the craft beer landscape. There are so many people I guess who

whose passion is not only um obvious but it's but it's very evident in the the way that they engage or the way that they talk or you know the effusiveness I guess um all that all that kind of thing. And Willie's not that, but he's no less no less passionate. Uh absolutely. But I mean and I I I I guess, you know, Willie's all about the beer, um and not necessarily you know, he

the whole social media, the whole hype, the whole he he he's an old school journalist who came to be writing. He probably uh you know doesn't have too much time for the for the very hype driven. But oh great chat, really, really fascinating. Great to hear his thoughts and uh you know he certainly if you don't have any of his books Um go out and find. I'm sure some of them are still in print or at least are um still uh you know available on some of the secondhand uh bookshops.

Um and amber um and black is certainly uh uh again the the the the book that really showed me how uh wonderful beer riding could be and it'll show you uh I think that's only probably twelve years old, it will show you how drastically the industry has changed in the last ten years.

Exactly. Mate uh look uh probably don't we don't seem to have had uh too many cards and letters. Um I haven't been answering letterbox, Matt. No, so um and yeah, as I say, i it was just uh the week's been a bit of a blur, so we might just hold over cards and letters. And until next week. We have had a new Patreon come on, um, or a new patron come on, uh Nigel A Ling.

He he did post a Nigel here from We Love Craft Beer, which is his uh community. Um our ten dollar patrons get to suggest somebody they interview. Um now he said, I suggest you interview me. I am running an online community for craft beer lovers and would love to talk to you about it. As we said to our good friend Dermot Dowling, you know, that's not the way that it works uh Given we uh we we've got great sponsors in uh CryMalt and Brupack uh sponsoring the show and paying advertising.

think we can sort of let through Uh ads slip through for ten dollars unfortunately. Just uh yeah. Um but we have name checked you and you probably Well you know, Prop, it's one of those it is one of those things. Exactly. Unless you're Seth McFarlane. And they're both humorous and clever, then I I might consider it. We'll we'll look at that. But otherwise otherwise what what wha otherwise Noge, what w Nigel, what was your what was your second choice? Who who's your second choice?

Who's your second choice, Nigel? And uh while we're speaking we'll somebody else from the craft beer, you know, uh Facebook page. That's that's trouble cheap. with uh We Love Craft Beer uh is is the uh Facebook um community um check it and uh if if you suggest somebody uh we'll be sure to be mentioning that it's Nigel Ayling from We Love Craft Beer. So there you go I reckon he's got his ten dollars worth Hopefully uh he doesn't sort of cancel the uh

uh patronage on on the back of that. But our listeners, if you like what we do, and uh don't forget uh you can uh jump online uh to Patreon. The link is on our show notes. Um and you know, give till it hurts or you know, even just give five dollars. Um for ten dollars you do get to suggest a guest that you would love to interview um or you would love to hear us interview, but the best thing is

That you get to get on and ask the questions yourself. You get to be a guest host of Radio Brews News ten minutes with. the guest of your choice. And uh you know, because of the awesome pulling power of uh Bruce Youth, we managed to get the ACC along to the Craft Brewers Conference. We uh get people like Charlie Bamforth, uh we get uh Greg Cook.

I'm pretty sure we get Pete Brown. If there's somebody in the world of beer I reckon we've got a pretty good crack at getting them on. Um all for the uh sort of bargain price of uh supporting us for ten dollars. And then you get us every week, week in, week out because we've become pretty good at doing that hey profit

And apologies if this does go out a little bit late, uh uh th later than the the regular Friday. We're we're sort of tying this up on the Friday after the the conference, uh, just through lack of time to to get it all together. Absolutely. Now prop, do we have time? If I was to launch a prop's pot shot Uh uh well i if i if it could be Matt's pot shot um this week, um Matt's soapbox, Matt's shit can, however we want to label it. Um But you and I are huge supporters of anything

that moves the beer industry forward. Um through the beer industry, not the craft beer industry, anything that shares good beer and gets people looking about it, looking at it in the most positive way. I I think that's fair to say. Yep, yep. Yep, nice concise summary. Yep, beer and food matching is something that we both love and we see as being a really positive way forward.

uh for you know uh introducing people to beer and giving it something a little bit more elegance than just the the the bloke knocking off tinnies at the football with half a water. Yep. Now it doesn't have to be the m the the most amazing crafty or anything like that. But I'm just gonna uh I'll I'll see whether we can sort of fit it in uh to to the show notes, otherwise I'll put a link into it in the show notes.

In my Facebook feed this week there was Uncle Dan's has been uh you know investing a little bit in um their right in in you know their their beer education and w which is fantastic. And you and I I think have both uh earned a couple of dollars over the last couple of years um writing some of their taste notes and doing some stuff with their findings.

Absolutely. And uh you know, and uh again we appreciate Uncle Dan's and you can give us as much money as you want to do that. I yeah, I've presented at the National Conference. Mm-hmm. And uh but now All good, all good, all wonderful. It this is not a political agenda against any of those things. But but when when you see the Facebook uh post come up

And it's a beer and food match and and it says Discover Carlton Draft in a whole new light with this d delicious butterfly barbecued lamb reg leg recipe. It's the perfect pairing to impress your friends at your next barbecue. There's nothing wrong with Carlton Draft. It gives a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Particularly the the the the draft tanks that are going in really talk about the you know, freshness of beer and and very fresh, unpasteurized.

But as a food match, Carlton Draft goes with everything and it goes with nothing. If you really want to highlight the best characters of beer, as Dan Murphy's seem to want to do, this is just a case of CUB shoveling a shitload of money into their pockets to do a bit of a contra online promotion.

It does nothing to really if somebody tries that, if somebody tries a Carlson draft with a lamb, it's not going to change their minds about beer or beer and food matching at all. They're going to go, Yeah, that's not too bad. It's not gonna be an epiphany, it's not gonna wake anybody and just doing that sort of stuff, it just smacks of this sort of grubby corporate, we're gonna jump on the bandwagon metuism that can only harm beer and lessen what people who are really trying to

Innovate. And it doesn't have to prop it doesn't have to be a uh as you and I know, it does not have to be like a six course degustation meal matched with barrel aged beers, Carlton Draft, Crumbed fish and chips is a crackingly good match. Simple, clean cleansing works perfectly. Butterfly lamb and Calton Draft You're really just trying to put lipstick on a pig with that one, prof. And uh look, Uncle Dance, good work for trying, but let's actually do something serious about it rather than just

take whoever offers your cash. Um at Christmas prof uh I'm sorry, at Easter we saw uh Yender and I think it was in association with Dan Murphy's or it might have been themselves. Yeah, matching cream Cadbury cream eggs to their Yender Hellas. Once again, there is Not a drop of flavor in Yender Hellas. Not a bad beer by any stretch of the imagination, but there is not an element or drop of flavor in the Yender Hellas that goes with anything in a chocolate egg.

They make a crackingly good stout. I reckon you could have uh worked that in. But if you're just gonna do it and jump on the bandwagon, you're not helping yourself, you're not helping beer drinkers, you're just dropping a juicy great turd in the pool that people are trying to swim in. Anyway How was that for th that was completely off the cuff, unscripted. Hang on. Oh, that was nice, Lucky.

That was did you hear that plonk? Yeah. I wonder I wonder if Lockie actually let us know, Lockie, do you have you know, do you have them listed by number or by description? Like do you actually have turd dropping into pool? Anyway, your your your thoughts on that little bit of a rant. Yeah, I'll come back to you next week. 'Cause I agree and I disagree. Okay, that's right. Yeah. Ping pong. Okay. Two and fro. Pop shot ping pong. Okay.

Being a pot shot, um, you know, I I I did preface it by say saying and you know, the a pot shot's gonna be a little bit over the top, just as yours was for you you're looking at you're picking up all of the negative elements of the thing that you're taking a pot shot at. Yeah. So that's the point of a pot shot. That is the positive for considered critical argument. That's we no room for that shit. Exact Well, not in the pot shot, that's the rest of our show. But uh anyway proper

Mate, it it it was good to uh pass you like a ship in the night, uh, several times in Brisbane. Congratulations on on on your work. Great to to catch up and uh Yeah, mate, we certainly have a uh a long list of potential guests coming out of the last few days anyway. Yeah, exactly. And look you and I will certainly more than make up for uh for our lack of togetherness by working pretty much hand in pocket uh

in twelve days time for the next twelve days after that, uh, at the ECA. So for anyone in if you're up that way. Come and uh come and see us at the Aust uh Australian Craft Breweries Stand in the Woolworths Fresh Food Pavilion. Pavilion. Look out for us next to the cheese please we're doing a sneaky beer and cheese matching. We ha well I was gonna leave that to you know.

announced next week. But that's yeah, there you go. So come along, beer and cheese. Happy epic. Okay, mate. Do the thunk it. Always good to chat. Uh great to see you and uh talk to you again next week. Fuck you out, Locky. And we're out.