Iran Wants Him Arrested. He's Going Back Anyway.

Iranian director Jafar Panahi's latest movie, It Was Just an Accident, shot in secret in Tehran, is nominated for two Oscars. In it, a group of misfits roam around in a white van trying to figure out what to do with the person they just kidnapped. One of the women is wearing a wedding dress the whole time. One of the men is a hothead, perpetually at eleven. They bicker about what to do with their victim who is sedated and locked in a box.

بسه دیگه تا یکی خفه ببا تو یه ساعتم رو به دیوار چشمسته با این پفیوز توی اتاق نبودی که فهمی دنیا It's the setup for a caper, and lots of ridiculous things do happen. But at its core, the movie is driving towards the country's real open wound. The man locked in the box is someone they all suspect to have been their torturer in prison, a sadistic agent of the regime named Ekbal, who ruined each of their lives in distinct ways. The dig at the Iranian режим інат суттє.

I'm Hannah Rosen. This is Radio Atlanta. He's in the US and the lead up to the ISO. He joins us in a When Iran is seeing some of the largest protests in the country's history. Met by some of the most violent government crackdowns. Estimates of protesters killed range from the In recent times, The government has started arresting even the And extended the sentence of an activist who had the Nobel Peace Prize winner to seventeen years in prison. Panahi's co-writer was recently arrested.

said they intend to appeal the sentence. It seems like one Still potentially a nuclear power has the world on edge. Uh does he like to be called by his like Jafar or Panahi or is me a valitum sad? Whatever you're comfortable. Okay. All right. Well um Jafar we talked to Panahi about all of this and his film. It was just an accident earlier. Through his interpreter. What did you want an audience, either Iranian or international, to understand or be thinking about when they're watching this movie?

معمولا این نوع فیلم ها بعد از تغییر یک رژیم ساخته می شود. Because then that's when people will go back to see what happened. And based on their understanding of the past then they make a film.

and it's also very important for people to make films in a secure fashion. But I wanted to make this film now because I wanted to To me it was very important to raise this question to the audience about whether the cycle of violence going to continue or if we can be hopeful that at some point it's going to end. Shopkeepers and market stall holders began producting Rocketing food price. Sunday, and today they were joined by university students demanding political changes.

Speaking of the cycle of violence, where were you when you heard about the protests in late December in Iran? Like who told you about them and what were you hearing from friends and family? the Oscar campaign for this film. But as I have said before, as soon as the campaign ends, I will return to Iran. Hello, but Umoruké in a When the protests broke I was in Paris. Internet blackout amid widespread anti-government protests.

Shut down the internet, it means that they're going to commit a big massacre. One human rights group based in the US has now confirmed the killing of over 6,000 people. It's also investigating 17,000 more deaths. وقتی این تدقیق شدید ما هم قبری از خانواده نداشتیم sediment of course with the complete telecommunications blackout I also lost touch with my family members. My son, my sisters and brothers all live there.

and I was not in touch with them. After the internet came back, I don't remember how long it took, I was also in touch with close by family members. My immediate family members are okay, but distant family members are not. Your co-writer, Mehdi Mahmoodian, was just recently arrested. How did you hear about that? خب اون زمان هایی بود که دیگه اینترنت وصف شده بود من می تونستم با مهدی When Metty got arrested it was when the internet was more or less back and we were sending messages to each other.

I sent him a message around three thirty AM Paris time. And the message was not seen and it was not delivered either. And I waited until noon of the next day and it still was not seen and that's when I was suspicious that something has happened, so I started contacting my friends and it was around four or five PM that I heard through BBC Persian that he has been arrested. زاهران دلیل اینکه اشونو وازداش کردن به خاطر بیانیهی بود که...

Among whom we have people who have won the Nobel Peace Prize, we have people who have won the Saharov Prize, and these were all acknowledged and known as Iranians inside Iran and some of them were outside. After that statement they arrested Mehdi and a few other people and it's a statement that puts the fault and the blame of the massacre on Mr. Khomeney. And when someone is arrested, do you know what happened to him?

Does your imagination fill in the blanks? Sort of what happens next when a friend is arrested? Does he know meaning can he imagine or does he have information? Well I guess does he have information and if he does not, does his imagination fill in the blanks?

وقتی که یه نفر دستگیر میشه آیا شما اطلاعاتی دارید که کجا میره و چی به سرش میاد و اگر اطلاعات ندارید آیا تو زهنتون میتونید تصور کنید چی میگسرونه؟ خب معمولا که اولش به هیچ کسی میگن که خجا بردن کی گرفته چونه؟ W who has taken these people, where they have been taken to? And for what reason? We have to wait for the person who has been arrested to contact the family members.

but only for one minute. And he had only one minute to say that he is alive and he is okay and he has been arrested and then the phone got shut off. He's now we know that he is in Noshar city. And he's kept in a cell of seventeen by seventeen meters. with thirty other prisoners, none of whom are political prisoners. They have crimes of drugs, drug trafficking and uh murder. I'm asking because th this movie is so much about what happens to people after they get arrested.

At different times prisoners have been treated differently. But of course with every movement when people take to the streets, with every protest. Things become much harder inside the prisons. And especially this time with the number of dead and wounded and arrested, they have become extremely harsh inside.

شما تصوار کنید This time, the protests were peaceful. But then the trolls of the regimes penetrated. the protests and they started committing acts of violence in order to make the protests violent. And that gave the agents of the regime and the regime itself an excuse to crack down violently. When the protests first began because they were peaceful,

Family members went with their children, even babies in strollers, because there was not going to be anything violent happening. But the government could not even tolerate that and in about ten hours only ten hours within two days, the first day four hours and the second day six hours. They started killing the protesters blindly and the number of the dead has now risen to over several tens of thousands of people. Is there anyone that you're especially worried about?

خب الان دیگه کسی خواست نمیشه گفت الان واقعا مردم تو شکر کردن زوگ با Now you cannot think about individuals, you cannot think about specific people because the numbers are so high. and the pain is so strong. that people feel that they're each other's family members. So when one person is dead, one person is killed, One person is made disappeared, everyone feels the pain and everyone is in mourning.

After the break, Jafar Panahi has a warning for America, and he breaks down the meaning of the end of his film. A once monthly treatment for moderate discipline. It relate and glare area. at one year with monthly dosing. LBK.

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You haven't been to the US in twenty years or so. As an Iranian, what do you notice that's different now? خب واقعاً فضای اینجا هم با خیلی متفاوت نسبت بسیده که قبلم دیده بودم Well in fact the atmosphere here is also very different than what I had seen before. Sometimes I see signs speaking to the fact that here too things are becoming very difficult. The US is different. When the political atmosphere changes in this direction in the US, it will also be contagious in the rest of the world.

What do you mean contagious? What do you mean? اون چی که در دنیا اتفاق میفته چه بخواهید و چه نخواهید تأثیر از کشورهای بزرگ این تأثیر رو میگیره Whether we accept it or not, what happens in the world is affected by the great powers, including the US. The more repressed the greater powers are. the more you see the its effect in the other countries. It is as if it has been tested and then it's decided that it is now the time for the world to move in this certain direction.

I think I want to make sure I understand what he's saying. I mean, so that I'm reading between the lines correctly. What he's saying is. sort of we're moving in a more repressive direction and that can be a model for other countries. Not that they model themselves after the US, but that they get affected by it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean he you've been on tour while the two American protesters were killed here by government forces.

Two is not tens of thousands, but were you surprised? What were your thoughts when you heard that news? The killing of even one person anywhere in the world is too much. As soon as this happens, you can be sure that there is a problem. و این اشکال کم کم به خود به خود یه روزی بزرگ و بزرگتر میشه و میرسه به همین ده ها هزار نفر. And one day it will reach tens of thousands of people.

Amen. I did not want to hear that from an Iranian with experience. خب ببینید من همین رو میگم وقتی میگم نشانه This is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about signs. Because we have seen and experienced these signs, we know exactly what happens, we know exactly what's coming at the end. It is true that when it happens in certain countries it's going to affect the rest of the world more. But it doesn't really matter. Where it happens. We as people have to stand against it.

Or filmmaker or writer or doesn't matter what we do. If in our own work we cannot stand against repression, it's Get out of control. Her geldiğimde doğru ben Sit at home. Because they had told me not to work, or I had to look forward. The situation is very difficult. Hopelessness. Should I be like them? Or should I think of a solution and do something? راحلی که پیدا کردادم با توجه به امکان Everything was in the hands of the government. Easy. A cell phone camera.

Because the authorities had told me that I cannot phone in my home. ترجمة نانسي قنقر What can I do if There are a number of things Because I knew myself I was sure that even if I started I'm going to hide a camera somewhere in a taxi. And that's exactly right. I hit a camera and started. The film Taxi.

Hey listeners, this is Hana interrupting with a spoiler warning. If you remember, it was just an accident, is about a group of Iranians kidnapping a man they suspect to have been their interrogator and torturer in prison. My next question is about how the movie ends. If you want to avoid hearing that, you can skip ahead four minutes.

So, I want to ask about the end of this movie. It was just an accident. It has a very hopeful moment where it seems like everything's going to go back to normal and it also the end of the movie suggests that the cycles of violence may continue. Is that how you feel? شادی و قم و در روزمره ما جاری هستش و این جزه رعال کاره Happiness and sorrow are part of everyday work and this is also part of the realism sense of the film. Many films I consider myself a socially engaged filmmaker.

And I try to speak about the realities of the society. My audience has to believe the film and it has to believe that it's watching a semi-documentary Omitting any of those elements can harm the sense of realism in the work. The humor that you see in the film at some point was intentional and I wanted the audience to move along quite comfortably throughout At least up until the last twenty minutes of the film. And then in the last twenty minutes I intentionally took out the humor.

from the film. Yeah. And I wanted the audience to hold its breath. and to think about the film. Under any circumstances, hopefulness will help people. It will help human beings to continue to live. I mean, when you hear the sound of the footstep at the end of the film, it first shocks you and you think that the interrogator is here to arrest him.

و بعد یک سکوتی جاد میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد یک سکوتی جاد میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه و بعد این پا دور میشه

And then the sound of footsteps goes away as if it starts getting further and further. پس شما یه لحظه احساس میکنید که این آدم هم امکان تغییر دارد So at some point the audience can think that even the character of the interrogator could change. The fact that the interrogator might have been moved as little as it might be, is that point of hope and hopefulness that the cycle of violence could end at some point. So that's why you wanted to capture the humanity of the interrogator.

These people like the interrogator may be very different people in their family settings. Their family members may not even know who they are and what kind of work they do. So these people to their family members are fathers, their spouses, and they might look very different than what we see. The problem is not with the individual. If we put the blame on these little parts of a system, then we lose our way into understanding. What the fault is actually, and who is to blame, and what is to blame.

I you have repeated that you are going back to Iran after award season, even though you've already been sentenced to a year in prison, even though you've been to prison before. I is that just because you can't figure out how to live anywhere else or just don't feel comfortable anywhere else? At the end of the day, I want to have the sense of living and it's in a certain place that I can have a sense of living. I could come here in the US.

And make a commercial film and make a film that could make a lot of money. But then when it's Litude. I would ask myself if I am embarrassed by making that film. This is not to say that commercial films are Not at all. And once a director makes up their mind من به جورت میتونم بگیم در این قلب Easily say that in my own solid. I have not been regretting Any of the films that I have made. This is a last question. Um this moment is so serious and dangerous around the world.

Is there anything specific or even small that makes you feel like you're living, as you said, or brings you joy that you hold on to? و خیلی سرنوشت سازه برای همه دنیا Um was your question only about what gives him joy or was there another part to it? I don't I hate that question, the joy question. I I try because he said, you know, living. I'm trying to pull out a thread

of how he continues to pull through, you know, what it is that he hangs on to that has him, you know joy is a little much. Right, right, right. It's not quite the right منظورم فقط این نیست که چی به شما شادی میده بلکه چی باعث میشه که شما ادامه بدید و چی به شما امیدواری میده که همچنان در راهتون استقامت کنید؟ خب گفتم چون انتخاب همون کردم به هر شکلی من راه همون ادامه میدم به هر شکلی که وجود داشته باشه Because I have made my choice.

About what type of filmmaker I want to be and who I want to be. I will find a way around it no matter what. I'm not a captive of moments or days because I see a greater future. See you from above. Jafar Shayda, thank you so much for talking to us and joining us today. Of course, thank you. Thank you.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Janae West. It was edited by Kevin Townsend. Rob Smursiak engineered and provided original music. Sam Fentress fact-checked. Claudina Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Opera. and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. If you enjoy the show, you can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to the Atlantic at theatlantic.com slash listener. I'm Hannah Rosen. Thank you for listening.