Hello beautiful humans, and welcome to the Mental Wellness Wake Up Show, a weekly podcast where growthminded, creative people come to learn best practices from both spirituality and psychology that create lasting wellbeing. I am your host, mental Wellness expert, improvised acting teacher, therapist, and coach Dawn McMillan. Let's get to it. Welcome you gorgeous people. Welcome, welcome. We are going to jump right in. I am having an interesting experience at the moment as I
record this for you. My cough has been kind of bad. Today we are experiencing some poor air where I am. I've got a fly buzzing around, but we're just going to go with it. Why? Because the present moment is always the only moment. So let's enjoy it. OK, enniogram, we are doing the enniogram. So if you're just joining us, you can jump right in with us to explore this 9 pointed wisdom system. But and also feel free to hop on back and listen to the whole series because they they are
independent. But part of what we're doing here is we're connect all of the enniogram types. So the Enniogram is 9 points on a circle, and it has been my contention for a long time that this wisdom system isn't about navel gazing and justifying why you are how you are. It's not meant to be a personality thing only because we're too complex, too delightful, too mysterious, too amazing to fit into any single description.
Rather, what the Enneagram is showing us is where we are, how we tend to behave, and it gives us all these wonderful descriptions of all the other personality types and how we can relate to them externally. And what I am about is helping us understand how to integrate them internally. That's what we're up to. And if you're here for the first time, one, I'm delighted. And two, let's jump in My continuing listeners. I adore you, You're here and you don't have to be. So thank you, Okay.
So let's jump in. All right, So what do we call the Enneagram 5? The Enneagram 5 is the thinker, the innovator, the observer, the specialist, the radical, the expert, the observer. So as we're moving into Enneagrams 5-6 and seven, you will recall the Enneagram 8-9 and one are considered the body center or the gut center. These people are more likely to be kinesthetic learners, to go with their gut to feel things and and be drawn into action
that way. And a lot of the ways that they end up being characterized as 8-9 or one is in how they respond to anger. And you'll recall that twos, threes, and fours are considered our feeling center or our heart center. These are within more emotionally driven types, and twos, threes, and fours are often categorized around their sense of shame. And anagram fives, at their best, are analytical, persevering, sensitive, wise, objective, perceptive,
selfcontained. Fives, at their worst, are intellectually arrogant, stingy, stubborn, distant, critical of others, unassertive and negative. Ouch. Oh yeah, okay. So let's talk about my people, the enniogram 5. So a lot of people are surprised to learn that I'm an enniogram 5. They're like, you're a goofball #1, you're an actor #2, and you seem to have social skills. What do you mean you're an enniogram 5? And that is just a reminder that you can't always type people by
how they appear. So much of the enniogram is about what motivates you from the interior, so you can't always tell. So let's talk some more about this iniogram Type 5. The investigator Basic fear of being helpless, useless, incapable or overwhelmed. The basic desire is to be capable and competent. And the superego message? Remember superego ego made. These are our Freudian categories of the interior of a
human being. the IT being our impulses and urges, the ego being their personality and the Super ego being our conscience or the voice of society. So any gram fives that super ego messages you are good or okay if you have mastered something. So in the Reso Hudson system they talk about Enneagram fives, the intense cerebral type, perceptive, innovative, secretive and isolated. So here's a quote from an Enneagram 5 that they interviewed for this book.
And he says this being A5 means always needing to learn to take an information about the world a day without learning as like a day without sunshine as a five. I want to have an understanding of life. I like having a theoretical explanation about why things happen as they do. This understanding makes me feel in charge and in control. I most often learn from a distance as an observer and not as a participant. Sometimes it seems that understanding life is as good as living it.
It is a difficult journey to learn that life must be lived and not just studied. Wow, totally relatable. So one of the things to keep in mind if you are in a relationship with an NA AGRAM 5, one of the things that NA AGRAM Fives are challenged with is moving into action. Any Gram Fives love to live inside their head, their books, their data, their information. You know, I will raise my hand and confess to being an information hoarder.
Like I love to know things. They don't have to be useful things. I just love to know things. And any Gram Fives are often we have our special interests, as the ADHD kids like to call it. We get our special interests, and we can sometimes get really obsessed and really go deep with something. One thing you might notice about an NIAGRAM 5 is that if we're focused on something, the rest of the world is dead to us, dead to us.
So if you are in a relationship with an NIAGRAM 5 and you think they're ignoring you, they're probably just thinking real hard. So what is an NIAGRAM 5 level of development? Because what? Remember, we're looking at finding out where we are or our loved ones are. And then all of us, regardless of our primary way of focusing at the world, learning how to integrate the gifts of the NA agram 5 so that we can all grow so unhealthy. NA agram 5 at a level 9.
Seeking oblivion Self annihilation Feeling that they can no longer defend themselves from their pain and terror, unhealthy fives want to escape from reality. In some cases they attempt to accomplish this through psychotic breaks or schizoid withdrawal. They may also try to escape through suicide. It could be theorized at the Unabomber was an Anniagram 5 So proud. OK, so level 8 Horrified.
Delirious At a level 8, Anniagram 5 Fives feel so small and helpless that almost everything becomes ominous to them. They're filled with dark fantasies and strange perceptions. They resist all help, shrinking away from people into feverish nightmares and insomnia. They cannot stop their overheated minds. Sidebar, there's this Turkish TV show, I think it's called Hot Head maybe. And it's about this virus that makes people's heads get super hot. It's really cool.
If you like Turkish TV shows, OK, level 7. Remember 7-8 and nine in this system, the Rizzo Hudson system. We're talking about really unhealthy versions of an NA AGRAM 5. Unhealthy fives fear that they are incapable of finding a place in the world. And this may be true. To gain some security, they cut off all connections with the world, treating into an isolated and increasingly empty world. They reject all but the most basic needs, but are still plagued by fears.
So I always imagine, you know you're driving cross country in the US it's it's a big country. You can drive cross country and much of it is empty and you'll see like some little house or trailer like out in the middle of nowhere. And I always think, who are those people? Probably an NE AGRAM 5. I'm just saying, OK, moving on up to an averagely developed any of Gram 5 and so these these
levels are not rigid. I wish that they were that you could evolve to one and never fall down into a lower level. However, when we are stressed we can sometimes devolve. We If you're in this community, we are seeking to love ourselves as we are and continue to evolve and expand. However, sometimes we can backtrack a little bit. And that, my beloved human friends, is no big deal, just means you're human, OK? Level 6 Niagram fives are
extreme and provocative. Fives fear that others will threaten the niche they have been creating, so they try to fend people off. They resent the apparent confidence and calm of others and enjoy subverting their beliefs. Their own ideas can be bizarre and disturbing, and they are scornful of those who cannot understand them. You've run into this person on the Internet, I guarantee you. Guarantee you they're the what
abouters. And then they talk about some conspiracy theory that even other conspiracy theorists think is odd. Okay. So moving up Level 5, Level 5, any gram. Fives are detached and preoccupied. Five is worried that the needs of others will distract them from their projects, so they shut out intrusions by intensifying their mental activity. They minimize their needs, become high strung, cerebral and
secretive. They spend more time alone speculating and elaborating on alternative realities. And so at this level, remember when I said that an Anneagram 5, if they're really focusing on something, they may not actually hear you. It's kind of like a superpower of an enniogram 5. And at this level 5, it's being turned into a super fault, you know, the minimizing their
needs, right. We're talking, not showering, forgetting to go to the bathroom, that kind of stuff and being really immersed in a mental world. OK, Level 4, conceptualizing, preparing. So this is the top of the average Enniogram 5 and when you think about unhealthy average and healthy, I don't think that we can divide up the population of any of gram fives into thirds or any of these. It's going, there's going to be different levels of distribution throughout any particular
society or culture. The other thing to keep in mind is that the any gram numbers are not distributed equally. For example, my people, the any of gram fives are very small part of the population. It's believed that much of the American population, or any of gram sixes for example, so on and so forth, just something that you a rabbit hole that you can go down. If you're a nanny or Graham 5 and you love rabbit holes, OK, where was I?
Level 4? Conceptualizing and preparing fives begin to fear that their skills are insufficient and that they need to prepare more before they can take their place in the world. They feel unsure of themselves in many areas, preferring to inhabit the safety of their minds. They study, practice, and collect more knowledge, resources, and skills. So one of the weaknesses of being in any Agram 5 is the ability to research, right? So I noticed this in myself. I love to collect certifications.
I love to collect degrees. I can research the heck out of something. But what any agram fives are challenged to do is to move in to a bias toward action. That's the growth edge for any agram fives out of your head and into your body. And one way that shows up is the enniogram system can be grouped in many different ways. Right now we're doing the bird's eye view of grouping by body
centers. But another way that enniograms are grouped are how they sort of shift into behaving like other Enniogram types, whether they're well resourced or stressed. So a well resourced Enneagram 5 is actually going to move into being a little bit like an Enneagram 8, right? And Enneagram eights take action. They're very action oriented. Sometimes it gets them in trouble, right, because they're going to go with their gut, They're going to jump into action.
They're going to make things happen. So as an Enneagram 5 becomes more integrated, they're going to bring in more of that Enneagram 8 energy. OK, now we're moving into Healthy Woohoo. So the Level 3 of Healthy Anagram 5 is focused and innovative. Fives reinforce their self-image by mastering a body of knowledge or skills that will make them competent and strong. Not wishing to compete with others, they prefer to explore new ideas and forms.
Their tinkering can result in profoundly original ideas, inventions, and art. Whoop Whoop okay. Moving up level 2 Healthy anagram 5 is observant and perceptive. Fives focus on the environment so they can feel confident to function in it and develop skills to defend against their basic fear self-image. I am smart, curious and independent and then moving up to a level. One well integrated, healthy and Eogram 5 is going to be participating and visionary.
Fives let go of the belief that they are separate from the environment and outside observer and are thus able to confidently engage in life. They also paradoxically achieve their basic desire to be capable and competent and able to live in the world. They then become clearminded, knowing, profound and compassionate.
So you can see that this this tendency that an Agram fives have to think and analyze and observe and deeply explore when it's used in a holistic way and when it's used in collaboration with the environment, meaning the people and the things around them, you can actually have an annagram 5 be a real contribution to others. So if you are an nnagram 5, first of all holla. Second of all, your your social role is the expert and what you are guided to do is to connect,
to connect. Do not minimize your needs. You have a body run, jump, yoga, bike, hoop, whatever you need to do, use your body. Because it is so easy for us to get lost in our heads. And I know it's fun in there, it's fun in there, but come out into the real world. There's a quote from from an Anagram 5 here in the Reeso Hudson book, which is I don't need much, but I need my space. Yeah. So over here in the The Baron Wigeli book, what I like about being a 5.
Standing back and viewing life objectively. Coming to a thorough understanding. Perceiving causes and defects. My sense of integrity. Doing what I think is right and not being influenced by social pressure. Not being caught up in material possessions and status. Being calm in a crisis. That's my superpower. What's hard about being a 5? Being slow to put my knowledge and insights out in the world? Feeling bad when I act defensive or like a know it all?
Oh my God. Middle school, Junior high school. Me. Not so good. Being pressured to be with people when I don't want to be. What's hard about being A5? Watching others with better social skills but less intelligence or technical skill do better professionally, or having trouble expressing some of my thoughts succinctly. So that's our aniagram or aniagram 5 So I'm just flipping through my my books to see if there's any other little juicy tidbits. OK, here's a good quote.
GK Chesterton At the back of our brains, so to speak, there's a forgotten blaze or a burst of astonishment at our own existence. The object of the artistic and spiritual life is to dig for the submerged sunrise of wonder. Ooh, that's good. Oh, this is getting along. Of course. I'm like, it's me. Yeah, it's me. So our invitation for all of us is it's about the balance of internal and external.
So if you are not an NIAGRAM 5, what you can borrow from the niagram 5 is that moment of observation and seeking understanding before reacting to explore what is with your head, heart and body and then react then respond. So in cognitive behavioral therapy, all the behavioral therapies. We talk about the space between stimulus and response before the cause and the effect.
There is a space, and if you can insert your attention and your awareness and your consciousness into that space, you no longer have to be triggered into behaving in ways that don't serve you. And that's a gift you can get from the Aneagram 5. Learn, observe, consider, think, analyze, and then integrate that with your heart, wisdom, your body, wisdom, and all the other gifts that you uniquely bring to the world. All right.
Oh, there you go. So next we're going to be diving into the Enniogram 6, which is super cool because eniogram sixes show up in two different types. I know, it almost makes me think there should be like a six and a six prime or something like that. If you've listened this far, you're awesome. And I really feel compelled to know, to tell you. And you know I know because as an anagram 5 I have the research with the footnotes. OK, so hear me now. Believe me later, you're wonderful.
Seriously, I want you to go look at yourself in the mirror and just be in awe of yourself. Think of everything you lived through and here you are, doing your best with what you have. And let me tell you, you look good while you're at it. You are whole. You are perfect, you are complete, and you are worthy and deserving of all good things. Until next time.