The Pack Bible Podcast: Week 2

 Hey Church, welcome to the PackBible Podcast with Glenn Power, a weekly podcast to help guide and encourage you as you read through the Bible this fall. So grab the Bible reading plan from the show notes, and let's jump in.



 Rolling again. Here we go. Okay, we are in our second week of reading the Bible together in our radiant packs.



 And with me this week, I have again, Forrest Cavelli and Mike Salazar. What up? Hello, hello. And this time I'm going to be interviewing Mike Salazar, who agreed to do the reading a little bit ahead of time.



 I do want to say, I think in our show notes, we have the Bible reading plan down there. So you can just click on it. So if you're not in a pack, we're hoping this podcast still encourages you to read the Bible. If you want to just follow along, even not in a pack, then just click on it. I mean, you'll get a general idea of what we're reading as you listen, but feel free to do that. There's also a link to join a pack in there if that's something that if you're part of our community and want to do that. There you go.



 So Mike, before we get into it, what is something about you that most people don't know?



 Two things. I'm going to share two things. One popped up during our last conversation last week. But the first one is, I used to be a part of a gang, for those of you that don't know. I was really a big poser. I never got jumped into a gang because I was kind of one of the bigger dudes and nobody really wanted to get you. Typically when you join a gang where other people jumped in and you weren't, I wasn't. That's right. It was, it was in Solari and it was like, yeah, you don't have to do that. That's sort of tough on its own. You just had an exception clause. But really I was scared out of my mind because I was who wants to get beat up. Right. But I was a poser. Like my wife's probably rolling her eyes right now. Like he's the poser. He is a poser. The second thing a lot of people don't know is I have a phobia of frogs, which is going to get us into Exodus 8. Ah, that's a little bit later. A little bit later. A little bit later. A little bit later. A little bit later. No frogs. If you ever buy me a frog, I will. Yeah. I didn't know that. I've been your friend for a long time and I didn't know you had a phobia of frogs. Afraid. Afraid of frogs. What about lizards? No, lizards aren't bad. Okay. Frogs, I don't know because they're slimy and they just, even if it's the smallest frog. They're actually, but they're actually not slimy. They're like kind of dry and scaly. I'm from Portaville and the frogs in Portaville are really different. They're ugly, gross, slimy. There's actually a plague of frogs in Portaville. And they just, all the time, they're gross. So yeah. I didn't know that. That's fantastic.



 Okay. So our reading this week are the next five chapters in each book. So we did Exodus 6 through 10, which is right smack in the middle of the plagues on Egypt.



 And we did Mark 6 through 10.



 And Mark is a really short book. And so we are actually almost done already. I think Mark just goes to chapter 16. And then we continued in Psalms as well. And I believe we're to Psalm 10, I think.



 So Mike, what, let's start with a question as you're reading, what was a question that came to your mind? Yeah, I think, I think as I was reading Exodus, I really thought about two things. I thought about Pharaoh's heart being hardened. I think there's, I've heard a lot of people have questions about that in Exodus. How could God harden someone's heart to the point of they can't make their own choices anymore? Like he almost takes their rights away. So almost like I'm asking a question for a lot of people, like, how could God do that? And how could God still hold Pharaoh accountable to what actually God kind of did? Does that make sense? Like God kind of doing that. And then the other one, of course, which I just saw again, was just a transfiguration. Didn't we, is that in Mark, right? Oh yeah. Well, maybe let's hold on. Let's do the, let's do the, let's go into Exodus, the hardening first and then we'll hit that. Yeah.



 Okay. So I think it's, it's good to have some background. So we actually, we see that quite a few times where it says in the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. There are a couple of times where it says that Pharaoh hardened his heart.



 And so it's, it's interesting you have this interplay between God hardening and Pharaoh hardening, which I love because that is a perfect picture of life. It's the, and it actually goes back to something that we've, we've talked about on past radiant podcasts, the tension between, or the seeming tension between God's sovereignty and man's free will. I mean, there are whole theological camps based on this question. And you know, I like how the scripture seems to play both sides. Yeah. That it really emphasizes God's sovereignty, that God is sovereign. He hardened Pharaoh's heart. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. He decided to, to harden Pharaoh's heart. It's like, he's not apologetic about that. But then at the same time, Pharaoh was not a good guy. He is hardening his own heart.



 So I guess one thing I would just, I would add to that is that I think when you put it all together, I think probably what it looked like, and now I'm just kind of speculating here and probably what it looked like is that God knew that Pharaoh had already made his choice. He had already made his choice to oppress the Israelites, to worship other gods. He had no interest in, in making Yahweh his exclusive God.



 He had already hardened his heart before all this. So what God decided to do, he used his sovereign right to further harden Pharaoh's heart, to increase his glory and to stretch out the Exodus story. And I mean, it could have ended with one plague. I mean, even with, even with Pharaoh having a hard heart, you know, two plagues in Pharaoh could have been just like, man, this is way too crazy. Just whatever, get out of here. But God used that sovereign right to further harden, further harden a heart that was already hard, where he's just ridiculously not letting the Israelites go, even after six plagues and 10 plagues, because God knew that that would increase his glory, that the story would live on from Lenny. I mean, we're still talking about it. This was all part of God's plan to show his character.



 So yeah.



 Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Like I think, I think if I was to look at that, I know this gets into your third question. I don't mean to lead the podcast, but I just mean to, as I was, you were saying that I was thinking about the question that you had asked me about like my own life, you know, and how that kind of what, how was this, these chapters in Exodus kind of something very, you know, close to me. And I think that's, it helps because I think in my own life, like I've been Pharaoh myself to my own life, like into the point where my heart has been hardened. I thank God that it's not to the place where I was like Pharaoh and it went all the way where I, you know, I couldn't, there was no redemption, but I think there was parts in my life where like addiction, people of the past who send against me were a Pharaoh. Like basically, I just remember this because I was, I was kind of reading and praying. I just remember the people's words were for out of me. Like you'll always be dumb. You're always going to be a stupid guy. I mean, that was from like elementary on from teachers. Like they just couldn't handle me in class. And I was, I was, I mean, it came from a lot of trauma. I came from a lot of things of my own past, but I just remember like two teachers just saying like, I mean, they were, I, and I give them like, I forgiven them because I had done so much. Like I was a handful. I was that kid that was a handful in the class, but I just remember teachers saying, you're always going to be dumb. Like that, that was my fifth grade teacher. And then like in, in high school, it was always like, you're never going to accomplish this because you you're just untie, you're just, you're just not teachable. And I think those things went into my life. Like again, I think in their heart, like I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. It was like, Hey, but you could be smart, but you choose these, these things, right? You choose to stay up or you choose to not care. But I think those things played a huge role of Pharaoh, like slavery, bondage, like, and then my own addiction. Like I was so I was so just a little, if you're listening to this with your kids, maybe wait or pause it, but if that's okay. But I think for me, like my porn addiction was a huge place of Pharaoh. Like it was like slavery to the point of like, I don't want to do this. I keep going back to it, but like, how do I break free from this? And there was a lot of practical ways God was trying to lead me out of that Egypt, but I was just so I liked Pharaoh in some ways, you know, it was easier to follow. You were comfortable with it. You were used to it, even though it was not a good life. You get used to bondage. Sure. And that's so helpful too. And that might even be a good question for Pax as you discuss these chapters is what were the Pharaohs in your life? You know, was it yourself? Were you keeping yourself in bondage?



 Was it other people that were speaking lies over your life? Like you were sharing from your story. Who were the Pharaohs in your life?



 And how have you responded? And maybe another question is how do you see God fighting for you? Because that's really what God did in the Exodus story is that it's fascinating that every plague is attached to one of the Egyptian gods. You know, there was an Egyptian God that was over the Nile and God showed his power over the Nile by turning it to blood. You know, there was a God of frogs and God shows his power over frogs, you know, like, and he's fighting for the Israelites and showing who he is that he's Yahweh. And it might be a cool conversation just to talk about that. Yeah. And even like I would encourage those of you that are like in still in that season of Pharaoh, maybe God's bringing up like, Hey, I didn't realize my job is Pharaoh, you know, like my day to day grind waking up, I'm a teacher and sometimes it feels like I'm like having to control 170 kids and I have these expectations from my boss and it's like, man, how do I do this? God, I feel like I have a ton of straw, but I have, I, how do I turn straw into bricks? And it's like, I felt like that. And it's like, God showing me in this season of my own life as I was reading this of like,



 I will, I will keep you, I will give you a soft heart towards your kids. I will show you how work is not going to be your only focus, you know, and how I'm called to the place that I'm called to be at right now. So I just want to encourage if there's anybody like, man, how do I, I mean, those are just some great things. What Glenn was asking that I'm still asking for myself. Like there's parts of those things that are not Pharaoh anymore. Like they're gone, but I think there's always some kind of Pharaoh because of the world we live in. Yeah.



 Yeah. I think it's good to ask too, you know, what, what was God freeing them unto? You know, I mean, that goes back to, you know, if you're older generation, Charlton, Charlton Heston, if you're the, you know, kind of more millennial Prince of Egypt.



 But the, what was the constant refrain from Moses to Pharaoh? Let my people go so they can worship me is what he said over and over again. And sometimes we stop at the, let my people go like God come and free us from the Pharaohs, you know, come and free us from the bondage. Like come on, we're stuck here. But we forget that a good life is a worshiping life. Like that, that that's the abundant life that God wants to set us free into. He wants to set us free from the addictions, from the bondage, from the, from the lies, the sin patterns. So we can become free as worshipers of God. Like that's, that's the best life that there is, is to be a free worshipper of God. Yeah. It's amazing.



 Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking about how God can kind of do the fine have it your way thing sometimes. And knowing that by letting you further go down the wrong path or, you know, in Pharaoh's case, like let him harden his heart, let it get worse.



 This is playing right into my hand too. This is going to bring me more glory. This is going to let my eventual plan play out actually more effective, seemingly let it go in the wrong direction is actually moving it in the correct direction. And so I like seeing that like, all right, go ahead, try out this addiction. Yeah. Go and see what that's like. I promise you're going to find life over here. And maybe the further you wade into that, the more you can see how good I am and how good you had it.



 That's, that's the brilliance of God too, is that he somehow can take all these different stories, all these different people with free will, and he weaves it into a story of redemption for the ones who love him. And even the worst and darkest parts of our lives, he somehow turns that into something beautiful. You know, the thing that we were addicted to, he then gives us a testimony that ends up setting other people free. Yeah. It's just, it's shocking. Yeah. There's a lot of things I've gone through in my life, things I've learned about God, there's no chance there's any good in that dark cave. Yeah. And it's amazing what you find in there. And so, yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. Maybe we don't have enough time for the transfiguration because I wanted to ask this question. I don't know if it's in the, the where, where Pharaoh's son dies. Is that, is that past the chapters that I was given? I think it's, I think it is past. I think it's 13. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Should it, is it okay to still ask or should I just not ask that question? Sure. I'm trying to jump into week three as well. I'll be right up until. And I don't think you have to read it, but I think my question is, is it, is this true? So I'm going to let everybody in who's listening to this, like in an actual, I send Glenn a lot of text messages or Marco Polo's on questions that I have. And some of them are way out there and Glenn has to bring me back down to like, no, let's talk theology and let's break this down. Not everybody's going to heaven.



 But so this is my question. With Pharaoh's son dying and Pharaoh being a bad dad, obviously, right? His heart was hardened and his first child died. Was that also like a, I don't know. I don't want to sound so super like, it was that like a foreshadow or a picture of what like also like, but here's God who is a good dad who is the perfect father also giving up his own son who would die. Was that like a picture of like Old Testament to like leading into the, like what was to happen? Like what a sinful father would do, if that makes sense. And now here, let me show you like what a perfect father would do, would give up his own son to create this almost like a Moses way of like bringing all people unto him. I think, have you heard anything like that? Or I think there's definitely a death of the firstborn motif that runs throughout scripture.



 So, and we see that we're going to see that in Exodus and in the subsequent chapters that we'll cover next week, I think, where they were commanded to slaughter the lamb.



 And when they went out into the wilderness, God would end up commanding them to consecrate the firstborn of every animal. So the firstborns were consecrated.



 And we have, I think with Pharaoh specifically, I think it's a contrast between, because really when you think about it, Pharaoh's son died because of the hardness of his heart.



 Because he wouldn't soften his heart, because he wouldn't just let go and let these Israelites go. It got to the point where his own son died.



 And so in that sense, even though there is this firstborn death motif all throughout scriptures, I think if anything, it's a contrast to God the Father, who it was because of God the Father's love and his compassion for the whole world that he gave up his son. And the son willingly went.



 And so I think if anything, it's a contrast between the wickedness of Pharaoh and a son that didn't have to die to a good father whose son did have to die for the entire world. But that's so great to notice those themes and connections, and then you try to pull on that string with the whole biblical story and kind of see where it takes you.



 We still have time for the transfiguration. Just a couple more minutes. My question for the transfiguration is, why the transfiguration? Can you just explain? Oh my gosh. I mean, if I think back when I was reading it was like, I forget.



 Yeah, I don't know. I shouldn't even just, I should just let you just run with that, with the three minutes that you have of like... Why the transfiguration? Yeah. Like why out of all of that, then you have the transfiguration and here is Jesus in his



 glory almost in a, I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was a glimpse. I think it was a needed glimpse of Jesus's true identity before the suffering and the darkness of the cross.



 I honestly, I think there's probably 10 to 20 reasons for the transfiguration, but these are just the ones that are off top of my head is that he was telling his disciples some pretty hard things. I'm going to die.



 You need to lay down your lives to follow me. And a little different than they expected.



 And the transfiguration was an encouragement, it's kind of an understatement, but it was an encouragement to them.



 This guy really is, this is really the Messiah and not just the Messiah, but like the Son of God. And here are the people that you look up to the most in Israel, Moses and Elijah, and they're literally coming alongside him to testify to his identity. That moment would be so seared into their brain that decades later, Peter would write in second Peter, he would say, we still remember the holy mountain. And when God came and spoke to Jesus there, it was like, and that was the point, I think, was to have this image, this experience that just seared into their brains and hearts who Jesus really was that would sustain them through the difficulties of the cross that was to come. That's last week we talked about, one of my questions was like, Jesus willingly came down and kind of became a man and kind of like let go of some of his divinity and let some of that go.



 But that seems like this moment, he's taking it back for a little bit. I'm going to put this part of me back on and it's in my full weight and glory because it has a good purpose for it. A momentary unleashing. Yeah. Because this is who I am and I've been this whole time. I'm just kind of in, like I said, tying one hand behind my back, but I'm going to show you what I can do with both my hands for a second here. Yeah. Does that make sense? You know, and I think too that God does this in our lives to a lesser extent where he gives us mountain top experiences to sustain us for the hard road and to confirm his identity. You know, the very things he did on the amount of transfiguration, he says, I'm going to give you these five days of glory, these five days of just heartrending spiritual experience, but it's for a purpose. It's so you can persevere. It's so you can be a confident witness to other people of who I am.



 And that's just why, I mean, this is off the transfiguration. I mean, that's why I just love Peter so much. I want to hang out with Peter so much because he has this huge mountain top experience of the transfiguration and later he'll preach on it. But then you have that moment of when everything just, here's the hard part where it's just like Jesus gets arrested, Peter denies Christ three times. And it's like he had that amazing moment, like not too long ago. And then he just jacks it all up where he just denies. I just love that Jesus is not afraid to share those things because he just knows how human we are and how redemptive he is to our lives just through Peter's life because Peter just kept messing it up. But then he finally got it right, right to the very point of his last breath on earth of just, I don't know. I just love Peter. I just want to hang out with that guy a lot in heaven.



 Hey, Glenn, can we do a whole in-depth multi-part podcast on heaven?



 I feel like there's just, you could riff on like hanging out with Peter and there's so many things to talk about. Yeah, dude. Let's do it. That'll be good.



 This is great, guys. I think we'll end it there.



 We do want to hear from you in your packs just how your Bible discussions are going and maybe even questions and or cool thoughts that are coming up. So I gave my email address a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't spell it. And so I need to spell it. It is it is Glenn at radiantvisalia.com, but it's Glenn with two ends. OK, so feel feel free to email questions or just even highlights, you know, like testimonies from your time in the world. We want to hear how it's going.



 So yeah, thanks to Forrest and Mike for being our guests these last two weeks.



 And we will we'll see you next week for the next chapters of the word.



 See you next time.