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Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay, the third and Sir Daniel. In this moment, we need to talk about comprehension and understanding. There is so much
Woo.
in the world.
What I need from y'all is understanding. Listen, it seems like every time Kendrick Lamar releases music,
Oh, yeah.
there's like, A rash of industry chatter that results in someone getting in their feelings
Every
and every single time. And it's just like, is anybody listening? Turn this on. I need y'all to turn this on. Listen, listen to what's saying. And in this episode of Queue Points, Jay Ray, we are going to talk about some, um, misunderstandings because people aren't listening. People aren't listening to comprehend. People are listening so they can make their point. So in the song whacked out murals. Jay Ray Kendrick spits the following. I used to bump the car to three.
I held my rollie chain proud irony. I think my hard work let Wayne down. So immediately you and I are like, oh man, he feels.
¶ Intro Theme
Yeah.
feels like he let down one of his heroes. He's, he's literally saying, I let, I let Wayne down. That means he had, he held, he holds that man in some form of respect. Right. But of course your cousins, Jay Ray, they got to come and say,
¶ Introduction and Hosts
Oh, Oh, Oh, he won it with Wayne. He trying to get Wayne. He he's already disrespecting him by, um, being in the Super Bowl in New Orleans. Now he's trying to diss Wayne. Oh, you about to wake the bear up.
Yeah, it's such a weird thing. And I think none of this would be, um, as big of a deal if little Wayne himself
¶ Understanding Kendrick Lamar's Lyrics
didn't jump in and give a, why am I in it?
Yeah.
you know, let the beast, you know, lie, dah, dah, dah, dah. And I'm like, Wayne, did you even listen to like the bar? Like, so this is weird to me. I heard this bar. I listened to whacked out murals. I was actually really tuned in to be like, is Kendrick going to diss somebody in this track, like opening track after not like us, is this going to be a continuation?
Right.
I was like, I left the track, not feeling that way. I left the track like, okay, Kendrick is going to, he's rapping. He is being introspective. He is introducing this new project, right? particular line is not a diss. It's just
It's not this.
it doesn't read like a diss. He didn't wrap it like a diss. It was more just to your point. I had this success. I have this thing that has come to me, but at the same time, I feel like I let down one of the people that I really respect. in the midst of getting this opportunity. That seems very straightforward to me. But my wonder and why we wanted to have this conversation is I wonder if we are in a moment where people in the mess. Like it is the thing that people look for.
They just can't let it be like, Oh, but his brother is like having an introspective moment and that's okay.
Yeah. I think the bloodlust is way too strong for anybody to, at this point for any of the people involved for the fans, for the, the podcasters, the journalists, I think people are way too involved and it's making people money. So the bloodlust is super strong for the drama. And so you're absolutely right. So having some nuance or understanding nuance and, um, and wanting to find understanding would cause peace. And apparently nobody wants that.
Everybody wants the rah, rah, everybody wants to dump their chest right now. And instead of just really celebrating good music, This has turned into a, well, we've seen what happens. This has turned into litigation. You know, people are getting their attorneys on the phone. It's, it's kind of wild. And when you look at it, um, the only people that are benefiting are, is the parent company.
Yes.
music really is the only person benefiting from all of this. It's like Jay Z said, nobody wins when the family feuds.
¶ Misunderstandings in Hip Hop
Yeah.
is why, especially when we take a look at hip hop, um, because rap is so much about bravado and being the best right
Mm hmm.
I can see how it is easy for folks to get caught up. in the moment. Um, and what often happens folks is there are misunderstandings and we wanted to talk about a couple of honest misunderstandings in hip hop history that actually led to beef, but they were not based in anything that was a diss at all.
And what's funny about these hip hop misunderstandings that we're going to discuss is that there was no social media. So I'm wondering if there was social media, would this have been even worse? Like, would it have gotten, it probably would have caught on like wildfire and would have really been blown out of proportion. But when you told me about this one, I thought it was hilarious, actually, especially considering the people involved.
Yes. So, um, shout out to DJ Kenny Parker. In our description, we will include Kenny Parker's break. So DJ Kenny Parker is the DJ for KRS ONE and Boogie Down Productions. So he is, and he's also KRS ONE's brother. So he has all of this history and he does this, um, he does these different segments on his YouTube channel. So to your point, Sir Daniel, I, Did not know about this particular beef because it happened in the early nineties, and you know, it was very much happening at the in New York.
Right?
Right.
we are talking about the beef between boogie down productions. and, uh, the UMCs. Now, all of y'all likely know who Boogie Down Productions is, but the UMCs though, uh, were two brothers from Staten Island, uh, Haas G and Kool Kim,
Not to be confused with the ultramagnetic emcees,
not to be confused with the ultra, thank you so much, not to be, not to be confused with them, even though that's really interesting that they did pick that name because Ultra Magnetic already existed. Anyway, um, They were known for a song. Uh, they had the number one hit. They had a number one hip hop track in blue cheese. Like that
right? Right.
at a show in New York Very regular this is gonna be a hip hop show all of that stuff down productions Of course is the biggest group so they are gonna close the show. They are the headline act they close the show. So The way this beef started is kind of wild. So every MC, every act did a freestyle segment because it's hip hop. That's the thing that you do. You do a freestyle segment in your thing.
¶ Boogie Down Productions vs. UMCs
So Parker was like, we do one too in our segment. So in the middle of the set, well, you know, I'll get on the, the, the drum machine and Crystal start, you know, rapping. he said, he gave the, he said, here's what KRS One said. He said. At the start of his freestyle, a lot of emcees come on the stage and claim that they can freestyle, a lot of you emcees can't freestyle. I'm gonna show y'all how to freestyle. So Kenny Parker is like, I hear the crowd going like, Ooh, whatever.
He's like, Hey, even say,
This is like, um, did I miss something?
Like, didn't even say nothing crazy. Like, I don't know what they owe it for, but sure. Karis one does his freestyle, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But the UMCs who are, who have gone off, right, they performed already, approach them afterwards and say, you know, like what happened? Like what did we do? And he's like, they are confused. And of course, Karras, one of them are confused. Like what are you talking about? And they were like, no, the, the freestyle, the UMCs.
And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. not, that was just
I mean, why? Oh, you MC.
why, Oh, you MCs, not you MCs like y'all, just you MCs, like the collective of MCs. And so what it started as was they got upset. They wanted KRS one to go and specifically say, uh, I'm not talking about the UMCs and there was a lot of back and forth around what should have happened. Like he agreed to do it and then didn't do it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that beef literally came from a random line in a freestyle that was very straight forward.
And just for context, just for context, let's paint the picture of like the type of guys The UMCs are like, and the type of video blue cheese was because for Because when you describe them, people are going to be like, Oh, that doesn't even sound like somebody that KRS One would come after or this because, because for all intents and purposes, they were kids. It's so
pad, one of them had like the mop head dreads and colorful outfits. Blue cheese as a video had like a blue puppet. It was weird. I was like, I don't know what this blue alien puppet has to do with anything. And it was just a very, very colorful video. So it wouldn't even make sense. To your point, that KRS One would diss them, because it's like, they ain't do nothing.
wild. And yeah, again, for people and it's the crowd, the crowd immediately latched onto that one line thinking, Oh, well they just got off the stage. So he's, Gotta be talking about them. And you know what? Maybe because KRS One had a reputation for, you know, for battling people, um, face to face and saying stuff on and talking ish on stage. So people were probably like, oh yeah, Chris is on one tonight. He's probably, he letting, he about to tell you somebody head off in this cipher tonight.
So it's this time it's the UMCs. Yeah. Your blue cheese is out of here. Your blue cheese is ranch.
Not your blue cheese is ranch. That's a DJ, sir. Daniel quotable, ladies and gentlemen,
Nah, nah. If I, nah, if he would have said that and then it's like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You really trying to start some stuff. You want to be starting something, Chris.
but Sir Daniel, you mentioned something really important. This wouldn't mean anything. Had the crowd to your point, only, the reason that I'm sure the UMCs also reacted is because of the way the crowd reacted, right?
Right.
they picked up on the fact that he said this thing and then the crowd reacted and we are also called the UMCs, right? the crowd not reacted crazy? They probably also wouldn't have reacted crazy. So that fact of the crowds in that room, hyping it up as a thing part of what made it. And I also would have been, I can't say how I would have reacted in the moment.
If I was in that room in the moment and having just saw the UMCs perform also to your point, knowing the reputation of KRS One, I too, as a hip hop fan may have read that line as a diss. Mm hmm, mm
Well, here's the thing. And here's another perspective. Um, the UMCs are relatively new to the industry. Um, I don't know, this is probably one of their first, this is like maybe one of their first outings touring and performing and performing alongside somebody you probably looked up to makes you, makes you feel a way you feel your insecurities start showing up and this happens to all of us.
Yes.
to all of us in all works of. In all walks of life, when we feel like when we're encountering any kind of anything that speaks to our insecurities and that question that makes us question our abilities and um, our purpose,
Mm hmm.
to immediately start projecting.
Yes.
so I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts. That the UMCs were probably like, Oh my God, I knew they didn't like us. I knew, Ooh, and this is Karis one. Oh my God. I love Karis one. Damn. He hates us. Oh my God. I gotta find out what's happening. He's talking about us. He's gotta be talking about us because we, in our minds, we think we're great, but then are we really that great? You know, there's probably a whole lot of inner dialogue going on and don't let the, don't let the bravado fool you.
A lot of these rappers. Present date counted are insecure, have a lot of insecurities and just because they have a million and one people know who they are and they have more money than the average person does not negate the fact that they have insecurities. Ego and that they have insecurities and their insecurities are probably magnified a thousand times more than you and I, um, who are able to have a normal private life.
So to that point, Sir Daniel, you're absolutely right. Because this beef you also mentioned to me flew over. I would never imagine these, this and the, and this group to your point was in a stab. Like you want to talk about superstar established, like they were at the top of the food chain feeling some kind of way.
So I have a theory about that, but so I'll, I'll let you let you all in though. In on what J Ray and I are discussing. So when we talked, we were talking about rap misunderstandings. I recalled a, an interview between Salt N Pepa and Queen Latifah, and they were reminiscing about, um, a club MTV spring break performance. And, and man, though, I, Ooh, I miss those. Those were some fun times to see our folks out there outdoors performing and, you know, water slides and all that kind of stuff.
But anyway. So Queen Latifah, this was like 91, 92, Queen Latifah, her second album is out and she's promoting, um, Latifah's Headed Up To Here,
hmm.
and Salt N Pepa happened to be at the same performance, um, their uh, They probably recorded their performance earlier
Mm hmm.
there. So they're chilling in the crowd watching Queen Latifah perform because they love Queen Latifah. They really enjoy her as a rapper. And there, for those of you who are, you know, Latifah fans and know the song Latifah's had it up to here, there is a rhyme
It is.
and it makes me laugh just even thinking about that. There's a rhyme where Queen Latifah says, um, she's basically, she says,
don't chew
I'm allergic to wack crews.
hmm. Yeah. Hi.
Salt N Pepa's like in the audience. In her performance, Lies moving about stage. She just so happens to stop where Salt N Pepa are standing and delivers her,
¶ Salt-N-Pepa and Queen Latifah Incident
Achoo, I'm allergic to wet cruise rhyme. And the bar hits Salt N Pepa like, She's talking about us! Oh my god, what is she? What? So Salt N Pepa are thinking, and you can see the look on Latifah's face like, Are y'all being serious right now?
So she didn't know until they talked about it.
She had no clue and she, and they were like, Oh my God, we thought you were talking about us. And we couldn't, we were just confused. Flummoxed we could not understand. What did we do? We love Latifah. Oh my god. She hates us. Did we do something? And i'm pretty certain they were looking at each other like girl Did you say something to one of the other members of her crew? Did we did we not get off stage on time? And so again The unknown fear of the unknown.
And with absolutely no facts to back it up, their imaginations start running wild and they're probably they're in this bubble and here's my theory. They've always said that Herbie kept them in a bubble.
Yes.
Like they weren't the ones like they would go out, but they weren't always hanging out with, um, other rappers and for a period, a lot of people had an opinion about Salt N Pepa that they were stuck up. And so before they started like hanging out with folks and, you know, getting away from, from up on the Herbie, a lot of people did have a perception of Salt N Pepa and Salt N Pepa probably because of that had a perception, had a perception of the perception that people had of them.
And so that probably lent to them have thinking, Oh my God. And having this runaway thoughts that Queen Latifah is gunning for them because they, cause clearly they respect Queen Latifah
Yeah.
they know she's a dope MC and they're like, Oh my God, she's coming for us. What do we do?
right.
then it turned out to be a complete misunderstanding, just a, just so happened that she happened to stop there. I don't know if they, it's so wild to me and so funny to me when I think about that story and when I heard it, I was like, you do know you're Salt N Pepa, right?
You, and what's crazy to me is I have totally see Salt N Pepa reacted with doing a hot shoe and like getting into it with Latifah of how powerful that line is.
Right.
it's interesting how that landed. I did not know about that. I also came in Salt N Pepa shoes. To your point, it's 9192, so they're in between projects. You know, Blacks Magic has done its thing. The new album ain't out yet. They also have had a huge pop moment with Let's Talk About
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
whole, they're an entity in the pop culture for real now.
Yes.
could also see to your point how they also may have internalized like, does hip hop even see us as hip hop in this
Exactly. Exactly. Yep. You're absolutely correct. And you know what, these, and we're bringing up these anecdotes to you guys, because we want y'all to realize that these people are human.
Mm
And even when we're looking at today's examples between Kendrick Lamar and Drake, we got to look past all of this other stuff about, um, who's selling how much and all that these are real people. Who are experiencing real time, um, moments of humanity, you know, you've got Drake, who is getting older and is having to consider the fact that he is not that he is not considered on top anymore, or that is, that's a reality that he might possibly have to deal with.
And then Kendrick is, you know, creating his own lane and, you know, and it's carrying a city on his back.
Mm
So God knows what he's going through as we see in that lyric about letting Wayne down, he's had dealing with his own insecurities and thoughts around this whole situation of, of where hip hop is. And he already knows that, okay, yeah, I really lit a fire with that. They not like us.
Mm hmm.
What people are already going to be on pins and needles, trying to figure out what am I going to say next?
Guess.
So heavy is the head that holds the crown is what they say. Okay.
¶ Modern Hip Hop and Humanizing Artists
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Absolutely. And like I always say in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel,
My name is Jay Ray. Y'all
and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round. Peace.
peace.