Calvin Michaels on K-Pop, Culture, & Capitalism

Now, Jay Ray, we've been wanting to, we've been dancing around this subject for a minute now, and. We just, We discovered, um, a young man by the name of Calvin Michaels and he is a musician in his own right and has his own, a very interesting story of his own. So we were like. Let's just kill two birds with one stone and just chat with Mike, chat with Calvin and see if he could help the uncles out the OGs out with any information.

But Jay Ray, let's introduce our guest to the audience.

Calvin, you're, you're, um, you're tuning in, or this is beaming in, I should say, from chocolate city itself, Washington DC And we, with, as far as music is concerned, as I just saw something recently, um, that was talking about. Gogo, I think it's something that came up on my social media feed. Feed about the power of Gogo and how, of course, you know, Gogo is very germane to Washington dc but tell us about what influence DC has on you as a musician and your artistry.

And um, I remember I. When I was first hearing, like, what Go-Go was from Washington State, I was being told, oh, just think of like the Rich Harrison stuff that he does with Beyonce and Amarie. So I was like, oh, okay. All right. You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna good to DC it's gonna be 21 things on the radio. And then, um, when I got here, I remember we were at a club and then they started playing like these different tracks, and at first I couldn't quite gather what I was experiencing.

It. It wasn't bad or anything, it was just so. Different. Right? Give it two, three weeks later. Oh, I was in there and probably knew every word, every song. I think what it is is Gogo just has, there's this richness in this raw. Um, essence to it, where it, it really is what I say, a genre that has never been watered down. It's still in its original element.

And, and even though it's kind of, um, evolved into different forms, 'cause you have kind of like your pocket go-go, you have, um, you, you have these different versions where there's something that's a bit more energetic, some that's real smooth and, and subtle, but it, there's just, when I say it's just an unapologetically black genre and it's so representative of not only just.

The Washington DC area, but just culture here, um, where we are collectively in whatever times are taking place in the United States politically, or it just, it's a reflection of all of that. So as far as it correlating to my sound, um, what I've always appreciated about Gogo is that it doesn't matter how old the song is, none of the songs ever sound old because it's all live instrumentation. And I've noticed with music.

Songs that are recorded with live instrumentation versus samples in, in studio. Um, never sound old. So if you take like a brand new heavies never stop, which is from 30 years,

Like the song's gotta be, I want some gospel. Go-go. You gonna sing it right? Sing it in

So how did you enter and what do you want people to get from it? Yeah,

And that was kind of like, they just took the best of what was on all the major networks and that was your, your entertainment. So we didn't really watch TV because um, it just wasn't a whole lot to choose from. So you were outside, you found creative things to do. So as far as how, I guess I got in, it probably would've been through dance first. This lady had just come from America. She had Janet's velvet Rope, DVD that she, or not even DVD I'm, I'm jumping the gun here.

VHS that she recorded off the TV when it aired. Um, and I saw, and mind you, I hadn't really seen at this point, it's like 98. I haven't really seen music for two years. I, I've heard it, you know, some of the big, big songs in the US with Crossover and find Its Way to Europe. But a lot of what was happening in America. I was out of the loop one, I didn't know who was doing what. My brain was calibrated in 96 so that I saw that concert. And other than I think Whitney's uh, welcome Home

You have nothing to do, but be creative. So, um, it, I mean, it's kind of, I feel like everything kind of happened at the same time. I was also, you know, a kid that grew up in the church, so you had to be in the choir. And we went to a storefront church, so everybody participates. You go, you going to, I was Usher choir and eventually choir director. And if they do the Easter play and the Christmas program, you gotta be in that too. Right? So now you, you're doing theater.

And then I kind of jumped in the theater in, in middle and high school. Um, I was on like the actual dance teams in high school, but as far as the YouTube channel, as far as me getting a presence, um, I used to teach dance on the side. Um, and so by the time I got to Howard, I had these different contracts with a bunch of different teams, and then I got into Howard and I needed to move to dc but I wasn't done with the teams and I'd already signed contracts. So what ended up happening is.

We came to like an A medium 'cause I could just couldn't keep flying each weekend to teach. Um, I would do the lessons on YouTube with an unlisted link and just send my lessons in the choreography and, you know, do these different teams and then, you know, I'd fly special occasion when it's competition time.

And so that's how the YouTube channel initially started. So people sometimes will see my challenge, like, oh, he started in oh five, he old. I was like, no, I didn't start like the YouTubeing for like another handful of years. So it started with that. After college. Um, I graduated at the peak of the recession, so there were no jobs. I went right back home, bored to death, and somehow I just randomly was like, I think I'm gonna do a comedy show.

And so I randomly went and did a comedy show and it went really well. And then I did like another and another, and I was like, actually, okay. So then I started using the YouTube channel to promote my comedy shows. I would, you know, showcase that. Um, that's all like 20 10, 20 11. Fast forward, I. There's this lady named Bethany Storrow, um, who lived in Vancouver, Washington, which is a town where there's probably about three of us over there.

And long story short, she claimed that she had been attacked by this black woman who threw acid on her face, and she was on the news, whole face, green skin burned off. Everything turned out she made it all up. Um, and it was because she was trying to get the attention of her ex-boyfriend, and so she needed a tragedy. I'm like, well, why you gotta put us in it?

I've always had like a keyboard or something, but I just wanted to do it more officially. And then, um, I always remember, speaking of Janet, I had tickets to the Unbreakable Tour and then that's the one that got postponed 'cause she was pregnant. And so the money I had from the. Refund from that tour, plus my tax refund. I was like, I have enough to build a studio. And so I just went to Guitar Center, was like, Hey, I wanna build a studio. What do I need? And then we kind of played around.

And before you know it, I had an album and then another album. And in between the two albums came to comedically Hard Headed podcast. Um, because the YouTube channel was very political and people are like, you're funny, but you, you scare us. And I'm like, I'm scaring y'all. What? So that was the podcast. I was like, okay. So then we launched like, or I'm saying we like there's somebody else here. But I launched the Comedically Hardheaded podcast, which was like a storytelling podcast.

So that's all humor. We ain't cussing nobody out, it's just all good laugh. Um, so I'm trying to wrap this up 'cause I'll talk in circles. Um, and then from there it's really kind of just built and, and branded. We ended up doing a short film 'cause somebody found one of the episodes and thought it was hilarious. We just did the film festival circuit last year with one of the episodes from that. And so that's been that.

But getting to the question about, um, I guess impact of what legacy I would like to make. I just wanna live in my purpose, right? And I think our purpose, we have that North Star, but there are different ways to get there. So at this point, I'm taking 15 different routes just to get to that star. So some days it's music, some days it's comedy, some days it's the podcast. Other days it's a deep dive and I want to talk about, I don't know, Motown records or something.

So that's kinda, um, where it's all at. So I do a little bit of everything, but it's. You try to find ways to balance it out so you're not, you know, overworked and, and, and burnt out tired.

When you encounter the factory that we here in America know as K-Pop.

We would just sit on the phone and talk music all day to the point where other people would be like, yeah, y'all are weird. Why are y'all talking about somebody? You, you, you naming all the band members from some random tour None of us heard of. But anyway, so we would, sometimes,

And she had a song called Girls. And when I looked at her, I was like, I. This looks so much like Janet's all night, don't stop video. Like similar style, similar lighting. And I was like, okay. Interesting. And then like the next video that played was this, this lady named like Lehi Roy. And she had this song called One 10 Minute and she has the same jersey dress that Maya has on in the um, best of Me Remix video with Jay-Z. I was like, what's going on here?

We, and and we, we were intrigued though. I'm not gonna lie. Like, it was interesting 'cause it's like. We're only teenagers, but you could still tell like, okay, this is really like a, an emulation here. And so I don't remember the name of the show, but it came on once a week and we used to just sit and watch to see all these videos and every video that came out.

It was interesting because it was almost like the imaging they had was maybe a few years behind what we were doing at the moment, production wise. I take that back, the imaging was matching up, but the production was a few years behind. It sounded like, you know, maybe 2000, not 2004, 2005 ish. And um, so we were just like, okay. Um, now I will say, um, in comparison to the now, I think what they were doing then was a bit more, um. Well-rounded than now.

I think right now you really do see the evidence of that kind of factory, that kind of just throw it all out there because I, I felt like those artists that were out in those earlier years that, I think there's one like the, there was I think a guy named bi. There was, um. I'm skipping so many people, uh, I'm forgetting these names, but they all had their own kind of personalities.

What I'm noticing about this current era is I can't tell who's who, and that's not to sound like ignorant, but as far as just the distinction between their sound, even the imaging and their music videos, the, the music production, the choreography, it's like everybody has exactly the same package presentation. I mean, it, it's cool visually, I guess. Um, but it's not. To me, it just feels too calculated and too orchestrated and too mechanical I think.

And, and that's, maybe that's just 'cause I'm a little older than the target audience. And I do remember when K-POP was not a thing in the United States. Um, to the extent that it is now, something has just always felt off and I just always think to. I wanna say this is the 2018 or 2019 Billboard Music Awards and New Edition and new Kids on the Block had a joint performance, and I remember them panning to BTS, you know, the big boy band that was really, really big.

And you know, you've seen their videos, they just da da da. But what, what's so interesting is when they were doing Bobby's, um, every little step I take in the segment, I noticed BTS was dancing, but they weren't on the rhythm to the song. And I was like, wait a minute. Now y'all can do all this choreography and spit on your head, but y'all can't catch the two and the four, I was so confused and then I realized, well that's because they're, this is not what they're rooted in.

This is something, there's a conversation of skilled verse trained. Right? And so I was like. This makes sense. This is why like, yeah, they can emulate, but you can tell that a lot of times it's not really what they're rooted in now. It's made a lot of money. It's, I mean, these are acts that are selling out stadiums in the US at this point now, but, um, I think there's a specific demographic that appreciates it and, you know, that they're able to market to.

But I think there's an entire another segment that is just never gonna be into it. And that's kind of where I think a lot of, I'll throw myself in there to be honest. Um. It's cool. It's just, it's not my bread and butter to, to run behind. Uh, and I just, I, I don't think they have that full identity of what they want to be artistically.

It's, it's more so the marketing and the branding they have that mastered, but the authenticity and the artistry, I don't think is there, which is why you see so many these acts just blow up and then disappear. and what makes it even crazier now that I think back at it. One of the things I remember when we saw those early versions, and mind you, K-pop was already out by the time I discovered it, it had been been a thing since about the mid nineties, and I'm 10 years late, right?

I, I specifically remember that Lehigh Roy, just one 10 minute video, y'all please go watch that when you get a chance. But there's a scene where. They're riding with the top down and I guess, what was the Korean hood? And then they pan to all the Korean dudes playing basketball. And we were like, what?

Okay. So it, it, it's, um, and, and I, I, I get it because again, black music influences everybody and our music is really huge there. You know, some of our artists. Are huge in places like Japan and Korea and Singapore. So it's, it's no secret that the influence is there, but I, it goes back to what I was saying about the idea of Rooted.

So even if you're talking Korean music or, or K-pop, you know, their bread and butter before K-pop blew up was Korean folk, which is so left field from what is currently out there. So again, it's almost like. Foundation was never there, but they built their foundation off of what was happening in the US in the eighties and the nineties, and so that's where their foundation stops.

But if you're talking about like an r and b artist in the United States, even an RB artist, they may be born in 2000 even, you know, their, their, um, foundation doesn't stop in the eighties because you know what, even though, you know, on Sundays if they had to go to grandma's house, grandma was playing seventies in the sixties or wherever. And so there's still that element of.

You know, certain elements of sound being rooted or even if they were a family that went to church, you know, those same music theory lessons that we indirectly get if you grew up in a church have never really changed. And the only difference is now they got a guitar and it's a little bit more praise and worship ish versus, um, maybe what we grew up on with the choirs.

But, um, there's still that essence of, of, of. That, that foundation that's still there. And I don't think the K-pop acts really have that. And all they can do is emulate. And I think this is why you're seeing so many cycle in and cycle out because just 10 years ago, the the two one group that was the two NE and the number one, or maybe they're called 21 with, with a massive, massive act like they, they were before

Um, and, and there's some acts, and I'm really not trying to whack any of these acts. Uh, it is just, um. It.

It's, I just, I think it's a generational thing. I think if you're of a certain age, you're just never gonna be 100% into it. There will be the anomalies, but overall, I just think if you were rooted in an era where, you know, Michael, prince, Whitney, Janet, Mariah, were on your tv, I'll even throw Madonna in there, or your tv, it's really hard to be impressed by. Yeah. You know, that's just where I'm at.

He's danced to it and they, they specifically love that particular era.

There's, they have this thing for new jack swing, but then I also think about how we specifically black people are viewed in different cultures and as your world traveler, um. Is it, is, is this, is this modern black face? it, is there, is there like a, a teaspoon of racism in there? Because we've all seen the pictures of, you know, the, the kids and it's, it's, it's definitely tied to youth culture.

The kids that are getting, you know, their hair twisted into Bantu knots and, and trying to create waves out of their hair. And as you said, the fashions are very. Early two thousands with the, you know, the, the, the throwbacks and the, the throwback skirts and all that other stuff, and they're getting their hair, corn, rowed and all these kinds of things.

So, but is there an actual, and you can't speak for them, but as somebody who's traveled and has experienced different cultures as a black person presenting in this world, is it rooted in.

I, I really do believe that that community adores what we do. I mean, 'cause honestly, I think RB hip hop, new Jack swing, for a lot of them that was their introduction to what you would call like Western style music as opposed to like the Korean folk. So it's, you know, that's their introduction to certain things. And I think culturally we've always been emulated, but I think where there's a gray area is. There is still that element of racism that is there and some of these fan bases are.

Crazy. I, I just see it on social media because a lot of them don't want to acknowledge that the entire origin and influence of new, uh, uh, of K-pop comes from what black artists were doing. That's the main reason why in my new Jack swing deep dive, I opened with that, which I got cussed out for. 'cause the Teddy Riley disciples didn't know where I was going with, and I'm like, just keep

And, and, and some of it is, there's not a full understanding of the blacklight in the United States, but some do understand it and just don't care. Um, and so I think. It's a weird space because also we now have black American producers that are also making their sounds. So you have people like Sean Garrett and, and Teddy Riley who, you know, give some of them their hits too. And I get it. There's money to be made.

And I think with K-Pop, for me, I see it as, as a brand and a business model more so than like a, a specific genre of music that's rooted in something. If you notice the, the rollouts, it's, it's centered all in branding. And how can we get the most commercial gain, um. And I think that stems from like what you brought up earlier when we talked about the boy bands.

One of the things that was interesting about living in Italy is, you know, we got the Backstreet Boys in NSYNC early, um, Backstreet Boys was out, I don't wanna say by the time I got to Italy, they were already a thing overseas, um, NSYNC as well. And so I remember moving back to the US in 99 and now N Sync is promoting, like tearing up my heart and I'm like, this was. Two years ago, y'all just now getting this right.

Um, because they were, some of the acts that actually were marketed specifically in Germany blew up in Germany. Germany is only a country and a half away from Italy. You just go through Switzerland and then we right there. Um, and so that model of set them up in Europe. Model them after Boys to Men, model them after New Edition. Teach them how to dance. Give them a little bit of extra swag. You know, you're gonna get Chris from nsync, who at the time, remember he used to

Like, I think that's almost where the difference is with the boy bands versus like the Spice Girls who I think the Spice Girls kind of stayed in a, a super bubblegum pop realm. But I think the boy bands, there was an effort to really model them after what the RB groups were doing at the time. Like Spice Girls, I think were still, you know, they were still a great group, but I, I didn't see them marketed as, you know.

Put them in a room and make them do an in Vogue and TLC doing, I think Spice Girls somehow were able to kind of carve their own lane, even though the influencers are there. I never saw them as carbon copies of, uh, and I'm, I'm not saying that about nsync, Backstreet Boys, but you, I, I never saw them as, um, they were still factory, a factory group.

They were assembled clearly, but I think it, there was a different, um, origin behind their creation, uh, where you have Lou Pearlman who knew exactly what he was doing when he. And even the ties to, um, ah, the guy

Or sometimes you'll see these groups that win the award, they'll have the, the member that speaks it a little bit better that will do all the talking. And then it's interesting 'cause then when you listen to the lyrics and they're talking about, I'm so bad. I'm so hood. Hood. Like where?

It is the, um, incessant commercialization of our culture. Like we saw this in the late eighties where all of a sudden all the black producers was producing on all these white groups, right? And given them bops, right? We got so many bops in the new Jack swing era

It's music industry 1 0 1. I get it, but it. It happens all the time, and I still get mad because it waters everything down. And what happens is then we have to do that so that then we can then sell it back to our folks. So these folks took our thing. Made it this, then we have to do that. Right? Put our stank back on it, give it back. But of course we're gonna do it differently. 'cause we done put our stank on it. They're gonna be like, okay, that now. Okay. Do what they're doing.

And then it's like this cycle and I'm just like, just, I want it to stop. Stop giving these people your, you know what, I ain't getting in nobody's pockets. If you gonna sell your stuff, do your thing. But it makes me mad. Jay Ra. Be mad.

Unfortunately that's, that's the business part, but I, I do think that is one of the reasons why r and b music commercially is where it's at now because of 20 years of that, where especially our pop artists went a whole lot more r and b rooted urban influence. I don't like the word urban, but that's what they call us.

Um. Once we got to the late nineties, 'cause I, I always tell people, they always think I'm crazy, but when Britney Spears came out, um, I thought she was black because I didn't see the music video.

But when you thought of white women in music, you know, you, it is kind of like a Leanne Rimes kind of sound. There wasn't really this quote, I guess whatever group Fergie was in that when they tried so hard and it, it never grew

And then that question becomes, well, where did the R and BX go? Because now the labels are like, well. We could, you know, push Tamia, but we got Christina that can do this.

As people who live in this country, who are, who are black men, who are music, who consume music, you know, we just have these questions and I'm grateful to have somebody with another perspective to come by and kind of like, well, this is what, and kind of teach us what happens. So I appreciate you, Calvin, for joining us on this episode and kind of enlightening us as to what happens because again, in all of our discussions and all of our discovery. Capitalism is really what's at work here.

You have artistry and you have capitalism, and therein the two shall meet or not meet. You know, artistry and capitalism tends to win out over everything. Cash rules, everything. Around us, basically around.

And so before we wrap up, Calvin, do you have any final words or please let our audience know about your channel and how they can find you so that they can be in tune for your next deep dive conversations around the early two thousands as you alluded to.

They, they go away and they go into these extensive dance courses, these extensive singing. Trainings and everything else like that. Uh, I only made that face 'cause by the time I hear them, everything is going through so much EQ and never, you don't know what their

That has everything, everything from my music to my podcast, YouTube channel. I have a book club. Um, whatever's happening with my film projects, uh, as far as my music, uh, I released my third and my fourth album a few months back, which again, before tomorrow. After yesterday. It was supposed to be one album, but I realized the songs weren't complimenting, and now I was like, these belong on two separate projects.

Making my own, but I really would like to start pushing in that direction and getting placements with other artists. So that's kind of my bailiwick. And so yeah, the albums are out. I also have two other albums, symphonic Euphoria and the Hardcover. Um, one's from 2017. One's from 2019. I took like a five year break before I came back out musically. So, um, yeah, so just check it out if you're into it, if you're not. Okay.

Like I said, I had the opportunity to listen to the podcast. So you get like the storytelling, the comedy, um, there's of course the music, all of these pieces. So you give the folks, there's a way. For folks to engage with. Calvin Michaels the brand, and you see this knowledge that Calvin is dropping. So just thank you so much for

And so for all of you that are tuning in, thank you all so much for tuning into this episode. If you can see our faces and hear our voices subscribe wherever you are. Make sure that you go over to Calvin Michaels and subscribe to Calvin Michaels as well. You can visit the Queue Points website@Queue Points.com or you can see the archive of all of our episodes.

Uh, you can also visit our, uh, magazine Queue Points mag where you can check out some additional content, um, that supplements some of the shows or, uh, compliment some of the shows. So definitely check that out and definitely shop our store too@store.Queue Points.com. We appreciate y'all, we love y'all.