Atlanta's Godfather Of House Music: Ron Pullman

The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of cue points. Welcome to I come alive stories of black, gay Atlanta nightlife. I am your host, DJ Sir Daniel. This series strives to tell the stories of Atlanta's gay nightlife from the perspective of the people who lived it. Words can express my gratitude for your support. And we've come to the season finale of I come alive.

And I cant think of a better way to put the exclamation point on this series than with a conversation with Atlanta's godfather of house music, DJ Ron Pullman. Since 1986, Ron Pullman set a standard for how a party should sound. He has also cultivated a community that continues to hold space for the divine vibration we call house music. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Ron Pullman. While I was fixing the stuff to get in here, I had a quick recollection.

I want to say that brother Jamal or Stan Stanley, the music man, somebody put it in my ear that I needed to go while you were playing and go up to the booth and introduce myself to you and,

like, observe you playing. And I remember doing that one time at the eagle when it was on Ponce,

the old Kodak factory. And it just came back to me like, oh, yeah, first of all, that's why that somebody would suggest that I come and, like, introduce myself while a dj is at work, because that doesn't always go over well necessarily. That is the truth. But you were very gracious to me. You just pointed out a couple things about how things work at that particular venue, like what you were using, because I believe it was some cdjs and the mixer and whatnot.

And I was just like, listen, I appreciate that. I'm just going to step back and watch you for a minute because we all know as a DJ, you just don't. It's cool to have somebody observing, but you don't want somebody observing and asking a whole bunch of questions at the same time because that's interrupting the flow. You know very well.

So before we go into this conversation about Atlanta history, I want the listeners to know more about your history and just tell us a little bit about the Pullman soul movement. Well, um, I've actually been djing for four decades. Uh, it's been over 40 years, to be honest with you. Uh, so it would be 30 something years for Atlanta. I didn't start.

I'm originally from the Midwest, born in St. Louis, went to high school in Denver, and shockingly, out of all places, that's where I started and learned to dj is in Denver, Colorado. And so. But my music background and influence come from my dad. My dad was a singer musician, mostly gospel music. So growing up as a kid around the house, I'm constantly hithing, being influenced by him, practicing, singing and so on and so forth. And one of my siblings, my oldest brother, was into music.

So between them two, those were my earlier or first influence is in the music, getting into music, because I said, denver is where I started doing private parties, gigs and so on and so forth. It wasn't until 1984 where I had my biggest or first big club gig was at a club in Houston, Texas.

It was called the catch one. It was actually a sister club of the catch one in LA. In LA. Okay, yes, original catch one is LA, but they had another club in Houston, Texas. And that's where I did my first big club key, 1984 in Houston, Texas. And so it wasn't until 86 that I moved to Atlanta and started spanning and connected with. If you know, the club later became, well, it was tracks. But prior to tracks, I connected.

How I got connected in the Atlanta scene was through the late David Hampton and his partner Philip Boone, who's still around. Those guys we were doing, they were doing parties called the Ritz Boys, late night parties, underground parties here in Atlanta. I moved here around the spring of 86. And two weeks after I moved here, I started plan for those guys is how I got started. And that's what kicked off my dj history career here in Atlanta. But answer your question, I'll respond.

About the Pullman soul. Jeff may moto didn't come along until, be honest with you, until the late nineties 2000. And a good friend actually thought it would be a good catchy name for me. And since he created that, I've been riding with it since probably 99, 2000, I think. But yeah, so it's a lot of history I can give you about. If you want me to expand on that, I will. But yeah, as I said, 86 is when I started

with the Ritz boys. Did that for a couple years. We then by 89 we, uh, that's when tracks opened up. And, um. On Marietta street. Yeah, on, it was on. Initially you would enter in on Marietta street, then they changed it to Lucky street. Depending on the night, you can enter in either, either street entrance. And so, um, yeah, that's what started that, uh, the uh, playing the tracks. It was the resident dj's were Stuart Gardner and myself.

And we did that for a couple years and then both left and went on to some other club ventures. So people entitled or called me Atlanta's Godfather house. And that's very appreciative. I'm honored and flattered to, and I embraced that. However, I surely do not claim to be the first, the longest or whatever. There was several, several dj's who were doing things here, such as a guy named Al Tolber, Rod Cole, Stuart Gardner, as I just mentioned. So daz, right, DJ Smash, all those guys, it was.

And a lot of people I'm probably missing. So unfortunately, those guys, some are no longer here, some just were smart enough and got out of the business earlier, no longer doing it. So if I'm rallying on, just cut me off anytime. But I'm giving you the history I think you're asking just leading up to how I got into it and how, how I'm still doing it 40 years later.

And so, yeah, I, we did tracks, as I said, and then for a couple years, like 91, I think I started doing just other than I started doing radio mixes for Atlanta's V 103. I was doing parties in the college scene, so I was doing both straight and gay clubs at that time. I was like, and working a full time job at Atlanta public schools and work and djing three, four nights a week. So, yeah, that's heavy.

I mean, a lot of people do that these days, but I, I don't think like your average dj that's coming up today, they don't understand that at that time, you carry your library was in crates and that could took a truck or a lot of manpower to take with you everywhere. So that's a lot of manpower. Whereas today, you know, you fold up your laptop and you pack your hard drive and you're good to go. That's true.

So I don't think a lot of people have an appreciation for how much work it took for you to rock a party back then. So you're saying from 86 and we've gone, you mentioned working the full time job and spinning three to four times a week doing mixes on for v 103, which was, is

still considered, it's still considered the largest urban radio station in the city of Atlanta. It's now a heritage station, in my opinion, because it's been around for so long. And I actually worked there at one point myself. Yeah, in the early two thousands. But back to, I guess, the paint a picture for the average listener right now that wants to know in those late, the mid to late eighties, early nineties, if I wanted to go out, how would I have found out about the Ritz boys or tracks.

If I say I'm completely new to Atlanta, there's no Internet. I don't know if the flyers were being circulated at that time, but if I wanted to be, to find out where I could go party with my community, how did I find that? How did, how did I find that out? How did I get that kind of information and know where to hear Ron Pullman and those other dj's spinning? Well, it definitely was a heavy, heavy flyers during that era, in time, flyers were definitely essential.

So at that time, Atlanta had, I think, a decent amount, still do, a decent amount of gay clubs and just immense. So I would say the promoters, how you could find out. The promoters were very diligent, very good about just putting up posters or putting up, putting flyers on cars or, or in the barbershops or the whatever businesses. They were very big about putting up posters or even flyers and places that they knew perhaps the family would go and would pick up flyers.

But the biggest thing that always worked in business

still to this day, word of mouth, if you got something hot that's going on and people know if the word is on the street, they talk, connect and talk to the right people, or just happen to bump into a person that, and if they just say, hey, I'm new in town and this is what I'm looking, I'm looking for underground house music, party or so on. If it's hot and the word is on the street, they'll, they will, people will let you know.

But like I say, during that era in time, just like you say how it was so true what you say about what the DJ's, the music we have to carry and the work we put in. But even the promoters were. So they were to the streets or I had a street team. So, yeah, everything now, of course, is digital or social media, but yeah, during that area of time, you did your work. So I want to tell you a funny story that happened one time.

I was given a flyer at one point that said this was a hip hop party at the warehouse. Cause they were calling tracks both. They were calling it the warehouse on certain nights and they were calling it tracks on other nights. And they would change that depending on which entrance you would go through as well. Exactly. So imagine my surprise when I got there thinking this was going to be a hip hop night and I was clearly at the wrong night. Yeah, but see, that's what you're talking about.

Came along after it initially opened. But the first two, maybe two and a half years surely three. It was straight up underground black eight club. Yeah. So what I know about you, Ron, is that you have a history with a landmark of a record store here in Atlanta called Earwax. And recently, last year, late last year in 2023, Earwax had a celebration for. And there was a museum type exhibit created to mimic what Earwax looked like in the nineties.

And of course, I saw the pictures and there's Ron Pullman alongside JC, Applejack, Kemeta, all of those brothers. And so I'm wondering, as DJ's in the community, like, and you are already doing your thing, when you're making your rounds and making your name for yourself around the city, does the conversation about playing at gay clubs come up with your peers, with your DJ peers? Well, most of them knew. Most of them knew that I played. I mean, and they would. And a good amount would come.

Let me. I don't know if I should tell this story. No. But anyway, I mean, we have the name out. Yeah. I'm gonna. I'm gonna describe this in a way that people could probably figure it out. Okay. Is a popular producer, I mean, who's doing

extremely well, at least for years. He did, who used to dj with me at one of the gay clubs. I mean, he just would just. And he would just come and just watch and so on and so forth. I mean, it was, for some reason, it seemed like it wasn't a big deal or a big thing. These guys, they, you know, for whatever reason, they. I don't know if they just wanted me to mentor or they just actually enjoyed coming to hear me play, and it was great. But they didn't have.

They would come and hang out in the booth most of the time. And they were just all, like I say, are. Some of them would come and spin, I'll let them open up for me, and so on. So, again. But most of them knew from everybody I worked with at beer wax to, like I say, JC, Kevin, all the guys knew that I played tracks or most of the popular black gay underground clubs in the city. And, you know, they all just. It's just, they're like, hey, you know what? You do your thing.

And it was just mad respect. It was no biggie. And if they felt like coming out that particular night or weekend on planet, they would. It was no biggie. And I love them guys appreciate them because that just speaks in volume about who they are and confident in who they are. And more importantly, it's about the music. You're not worried about being. You shouldn't be uncomfortable if you know who you are. And so, yeah, it was. Yeah, but they.

Yeah, I mean, everybody, pretty much any and everybody, surely everybody I worked with at Earwax knew that the gay clubs is where I was known for and planned and, yeah, it was just. It was just. Just mad respect and support. And like I said, I love. I still have some of these guys that I've known for years that may come out, come to the eagle, and I'll. They'll come. And some of them, I feel like they can rock the crowd at the eagle.

I'll allow them to play, but I'm very, very protective of my eagle crowd. I don't just let anybody play that. Straight or gay, straight up gay. They gotta come with it. They gotta come with it. And I'm so glad you said that, that you're very protective of your crowd because I always feel like the relationship between the DJ and the party and party people is a reciprocal one. And, like, after now 40 years of doing it, do you feel as if the audiences are still giving you what you need as a dj?

Yes, I would say yes, for the most part. The reason why I hesitate, because since the new eagle location, the dynamics of the crowd has changed, but it's dead. As you know, coming to the older eagle, you come in on first Fridays, it was just the. Just the energy and the vibe was. I mean, it was. You see, I'm not trying to brag about, but it was something to be reckoned, you know, you just. Absolutely. No, no, please, please brag.

Because you listen, everybody that's listening to this podcast or watching a clip or whatever has to know the name Ron Pullman is synonymous with, like, not just house music, but superior parties and having people still actually dance at parties. So please, please do not hold back. I'm 65 words. As a matter of fact, I may be hiring you as my agent. Please let you. Absolutely. I can say that as somebody, as a DJ and somebody that's attended,

I could say that you completely have a grip on the crowd like other and other dj's come to witness it, to Tracy Levine, all, you know, all people like that that are here in the city, that are, especially the house heads, know they will follow you wherever you go. And that's a testament to what you do. But you were saying, you were talking about audiences still giving back to you what you need from them. Because we feed off of them as much as they feed off of us. Absolutely.

So, yes, to answer your question, yes, I referenced the old eagle because it was just. I mean, it took a little time to build what we've been doing. The eagle, as far as me being affiliated with the eagle, it's been about 14 years now. Okay. To answer your question about if the crowd has given me what I need, it's just a little different because the dynamic is different at the new location. The new crowd is much younger and is a little bit more diverse.

First Friday was probably 90% african american or black, and now it may be 70% where it's more young, more younger people, which is great, because we need younger people to keep this vibe going. I embrace, but it's a catch to it. It's sort of a catch 22 situation. So due to the new location and its popularity, the new eagle location, the older heads is feeling like it's taken away. It's taken. They're not able to dance like they. With the freedom or the space, like they're accustomed to.

Like, of course, it's losing some of its undergroundness, I guess, if that's how one wants to put it, we should embrace growth if it's the right growth in technology. But you don't want to lose. You don't want to lose the substance or whatever it was that made you popular. So it can be a little tricky keeping that balance. So, fortunately, a good amount of people still come, but some of the heads don't come. So, which I can.

When I'm looking out into the crowd, people are dancing and moving, but it's not that energy that the old eagle had. They will go in hard at the old eagle. The energy and the vibe of the older location, it was. It just had become. It was just a spot you can go to and you can release. It may not have the energy completely as the previous. I hope that answers your question, man. Yeah, it does. And I'll say this as somebody who's been there. I think the difference. One of the differences at the.

We'll say the Kodak, the old eagle was, you were there. I could literally reach out and touch you, like, in that space at the eagle. And there was enough, like you said, there was enough room for everybody to dance that you could see the bar from the booth. So vice versa, we could still see you at the new location because you are centered upstairs. Right, right. I'm upstairs. Upstairs. And I think. And because there are different levels, there's also the outdoor patio. I think.

I'm wondering if that separation kind of has something to do with it, because I know that I've. I play places where, if I'm if I'm separated from the people and I don't see them, I'm just, I'm just playing music. I'm not really vibing off of them and vice versa. So I think so I feel what you're saying and I think that might have something to do with the dynamic.

And it's interesting that you bring up the two different venues now and the different places and the different, all the different venues that have been come and gone in the city of Atlanta. Do DJ's, specifically Black DJ's, do we have to have a responsibility to take a stand against venues that benefit from black dollars but don't necessarily respect the patrons? Yeah, absolutely. We should take a stand.

I can say I have been, I have been through the phase of being unappreciated and feel like people are taking advantage. As much as people may consider me a dj, if I, if I go into an establishment, start a residency or monthly or whatever, it is important to me. I don't just show up just to play music and get paid and leave. It is important to me that my supporters, crowd, family is treated right. It was a club that I was doing a monthly at several years ago.

They didn't even have the air conditioning working and I told them, you will this crowd come here and they make you a lot of money if you don't get this air conditioned fixed. I believe it. It's important to me that you're not going to treat my crowd and my people less than if it was another crowd. No, we bring you a lot of money. Our dollars is very important. Going into a place and I'm just playing and I'm just getting paid. No, I want. The sound has to be right. People are. I'm known

for being a jerk if the sound is not right for me because I can't do my job properly, I'm like, if people coming up, my crowd, people that support me mostly come out and they want to dance, they want to hear, they want to know that I'm not perfect. I have my off nights, but they want to know that if I'm, if the sound is right, if I'm doing, doing whatever, because they've had a rough day, week or whatever, or they coming out, they want to release.

So. So, yeah, me going into barge club, vineyards, whatever, it is important. There's so many things. There's quite a few things that I want to be right. Nothing's going to be perfect. I want to be right and my people to be treated right. So, yes, I will say this what I love about the owner of the eagle. He has been very, very accommodating. He is truly about the community. Black, white, latin, whatever. He is truly, for my years of dealing with him, he is truly about the community.

And he understand the importance and he don't take for granted what we have accomplished at first Friday. So I would say pretty much if there's an issue or something I need or whatever, he is very accommodating. And that's important to me. Like I said, it's not all about me. Yes, I want the things, whatever it takes for me to do my job or my gig properly, but I also want my people to be treated right, properly. That is very important to me.

I had another club in the city not too far from the eagle, wanted me to do a night, and I declined because I didn't like the way particularly my people would be treated there. That's important to me. And so all money ain't good money. So that's what they say. And I'm so happy to hear you say that. And because I believe. I'm gonna use an I statement. I believe the city of Atlanta, the city of Atlanta owes its appeal, its economic growth. I think it owes a lot of that to its black queer citizens.

Because if you've lived here for a certain amount of time, you know that after every holiday weekend, and you know, the black gay community, we love a holiday weekend because that's. People are going to come in from out of town and we know that we're going to be entertained, whether it be specifically dj's that are coming to town to play or the DJ's that are residents here, there might be performance, etcetera.

So you've got all the holidays, Labor Day weekend, which has become Atlanta black gay pride weekend. After each of those milestones every year, I know that there has been tremendous population growth in the city of Atlanta, and that brings economic growth as well. Absolutely. So I'm thinking to myself, is there something, and I'm wondering out loud, is there something that the city of Atlanta could do economically to empower ownership of spaces created for the black gay community?

Because I hear what, I hear a lot, what people are saying, well, the reason why the clubs are disappearing is because nobody owns the building. You know, we don't own these properties. We don't own these buildings. Well, is there something maybe the city of Atlanta could do to say, look, this is.

We, I don't know, through some type of movement or some type of, you know, thing that they put in place we have empowered this black promoter, this black group of people, to get some type of economic stimulus so that they can have this building, so that we could point at it and say, this here is a landmark. This is for, this is a place where the black community has gathered for the past 20 plus years as a place, as a space. Is there something that the city of Atlanta could do, you think?

Almost like a reparations, you know? Yeah, it sounds like reparations. No. I mean, no. The black gay community definitely has made a strong impact and definitely need to be acknowledged. Without a doubt. I. Yes. If you've been around for the past decade or few or

so long, yes, it is. You will see what the black kid community has provided for the city of Atlanta. You're right. That's what bring a lot of people, if not move here, surely come here on a regular basis. Uh, you know, I mean, it's so funny. I want to get a sidetrack because I'm gonna get back to your point, but to, to sort of a piggyback off what you saying is just, just the people coming here and they, they come here whether for a weekend or.

But I talk to guys who come to the eagle now, even at the old location, who come in from DC or New York, they come into the city once a month, maybe not always for the eagle, but they do come in for once a month to come party and hang out because they not getting Atlanta need to stand up and be proud. There's things that this city is giving the black gay community. You don't even get in other major cities like LA, you don't even get stuff in. And then. I'm not trying to put these cities down.

I'm just saying that we offer, that we offer so much for the block gay community in the city. Yeah. Atlanta, city of Atlanta should just be to definitely recognize and be proud. The proud, you know, back to your point, what the city could do. And if I think, if I think some. What you're, what you're asking also, you was, you were mentioning something about a black owned.

Business, black owned spaces or, you know, because that's, that's the, the common thread is the reason why these spaces, these safe spaces are disappearing is because there's no ownership, no real ownership in the community. Well, I don't know if it's necessarily because black is why they disappearing. Because I've known people who have had black, who are black owners have had black Chris spaces and they were lucky to last a year or two.

Let's just be honest, like I said, people come here, and this is on the same token. So it's two things that I see why. Why the spaces are maybe even more, but two particular, why things don't sustain. One, with the younger crowd, things are trendy. If something is hot six months, it may not be hot a year from now. And the other thing with my age group, particularly once a month, seems to, substance, seems to work for them. If I was to buy and do a club, I would be afraid that.

I would be afraid that I would be able to sustain, because people in my age group, maybe a little younger, some even a little older, they don't come out every week. And so I would have to resort to some other crowds to keep me afloat. And then if that crowd is dead, who they don't like, let's say a hip hop crowd, a young hip hop crowd, they'd be like, okay, Ron is catering to these folks, and I'm not going back to his.

So, you know, you, those are the things that, the challenges you have being a club owner, and if you don't have the resources to sustain, and, you know, a lot of things closed down during COVID the COVID era period that was not able to sustain black or white, it didn't matter if you were not being supported. You just lost out. But again, I just think the challenge with Atlanta is, particularly with the younger crowd, is trending.

Like I say, whatever is hot to this six month, it may be something different six months or a year from now. And so you didn't invest it, your savings, a lot of money, and you'll be sol a year or two from later. And, yeah,

I, you know, so, I mean, you know, people have asked me all the time, you know, why don't you get your own club? You know, I've thought about it many times, but I'm like, do I want to take that chance, a risk and not be supported, you know? Yeah, people come out once a month. They hear me play, like I say, my age group mostly, who comes out once a month. That's all they need. That's all they feel like. That's all they need or they want.

And so again, back to your point about the city recognizing black and stuff. There's definitely need to be some black spaces that need to be to acknowledge and so on and so forth. I don't know of any black, particularly black clubs establishment that are exclusively black owned or ran right now. Maybe there are. And I'm just, I just can't think of it.

You know, I don't want to keep referencing the eagle, but I will say again, the relationship that I have had with the owner, he has been a very accommodating to me. And if I have an issue or something that I address and that's particularly pertaining to the block gay car, he's been very accommodating. Yes. I wish we. I'm sorry to be rambling on, but yes, I wish that we had our own and we were supported. If we have our own and we support it, I'm down for it. Let's make it happen.

But it's a challenge or it's a risk. I don't have that kind of money to square to take that risk. But I do plan to do some things that hopefully that will. That will. That would help out. I have some things.

All right, well, that's. That's hopeful. That's, you know, I like hearing that. And I'm glad you brought up that perspective of. Because I fall into that crowd as well, where my friends and I, you know, first Friday is. First Friday is a thing, and that's okay because you're absolutely right. We're not in that space anymore of, you know, back in the days, it was Monday nights at tracks for the Monday night show. Tuesday night, dug that. Tuesday at 07:08. Wednesday, bible study.

Thursday, you back it. You're at 07:08 again. And then Friday and Saturday is the Marquette. This tracks. And then Sunday you're in church. There was a time where we literally, we'd be going out every single day of the week. But as you get older, you're absolutely right. We can't sustain that at our big ages, and our bodies are not allowing us to do that anymore. But I'm sorry, let me just say this before we go to the next point. And another thing, we also.

That sort of, I want to use my words correctly, I won't say ruined, but change the dynamics of clubs being supportive. Let's just be honest. People are online, on social media. They get, they fix and they hook up online that they feel like they don't have to go out to the club. They get door service these days. Let's call a thing. Let's call a thing. A thing is, you're absolutely right. I was laughing with another friend the other day.

We were laughing about those, the phone chat lines before because, of course, we didn't have. Have cell phones and we didn't have the Internet point. But you're absolutely right. And to, to harken back a point we made earlier about you particularly creating a sense of community with your crowd. You know, you're able to go out and do parties at local parks and people will come follow you because you bring a great sound shout out to the people that provide sounds for you.

One of them is my guy, Herbie, DJ. Herb does a lot of sound. You know, he and I used to work at v, so that's how I know him. And, you know, you always bring great sound and people will come to you wherever you are. And I think that's very important to say again, because you cultivated that kind of relationship. So I'm wondering, is it on the DJ's, do we, is it us?

And not necessarily promoters or club owners, do we need to start cultivating these relationships with the community so that they feel like they have someplace trustworthy to go to and will be able to feel like they'll be protected, they'll be safe, they'll have, and they'll also be entertained with the music that they want to hear. I mean, absolutely, yeah, I absolutely believe the DJ. That's not a bad thing for most DJ's to do. I just know today DJ's wear more hats than you once were.

You just don't show up like

you did back in the day with a creative records or whatever. Obviously you show with flash drive and headphones, and if the establishment have what you need, you just show up. But no, but to your point, you should. I know for me, I wear more hats. It's important for me again to, again, like I said, having a relationship with the club, the sound people, the promotion aspect, all those things from, it's important to me. I think that's what has helped me have a successful run in this business.

I've for quite some time, like I said, I wear a lot of hats, or several hats to make sure that my events, perhaps my night is successful overall. Because again, I'm a jerk when it comes to sound. That's important to me. But again, like I say, I want people to feel comfortable when they walk into the establishment. I walk from the staff greeting them and being polite to, to going to the bar, that they not being gouged, are they not being. All those things are important to me again.

And of course, unless somebody bring it to my attention, but I'm playing, so I'm djing. I mean, I know what's going on with somebody being treated unfairly and whatever. Yeah, I'm getting sidetracked. But, um. But yes, it's not a bad idea for a dJDeh to be more involved and making sure and reaching out to people and making sure things are correct. I hope that answered your question. I may have gotten sidetracked.

No, actually, I appreciate your answers to that question because I feel it as far as having to wear multiple hats and you got to promote yourself. What I do have a question of. A fun question. If you were able to bring back any venue in black, gay Atlanta, in that black, gay Atlanta pass of clubs, which club would that be? Oh, wow. Any black gay club. Um, I. Ooh, that's a tough one.

I would say I wasn't involved with this, but I would say what I enjoyed when I moved here, maybe a year or two after I had been here. So there was this female promoter, woman named Gloria, and she had a, she had an organization called friends and friends that she did parties at different locations. She. But probably her longest venue or spot she used. So it was a club that was across from Loretta's. Used to be called 688. It was used to be called weekends. We. Weekend called weekends.

688 Spring street. Yeah, it was like, okay, you know where the alleyway were? Apache if you were to the back entrance. That alleyway if you walked. Okay, you know, what's concentra now?

Yes. Uh, the, this was actually a club. 688 back in the day. Okay. Okay. And the back entrance was in the alley right behind Apache. And it was only a short period of time. And I think Loretta's was, might've been open at the same time, I think. And maybe Loretta's opened up shortly afterwards because Loretta's was a lot of fun. I mean, it's hard for me to say, but what resonated with me the most was that club. I. So Rod Cole was the DJ and. But it was, it was a lot of fun.

It wasn't a huge club. Easily probably 200 and 5300 people packed was in there. But I mean, it was just, the crowd was just great. It was just, the rod did an excellent job with music. The crowd was. It was, it was more mixed than it is today. You will see more. It was more mixed. It was predominantly black, but it was more mixed. Women and men, gay women and men. And we just don't get that too often here in Atlanta.

And this was house music, particularly to me, is like the era I've come from and what I try to still make happen to this day, it's about, it's inclusive. Everybody is welcome. I want everybody to come. As long as you don't have a problem with anybody, just come and enjoy the music. But that's what I miss about weekend, I mean, the friends was at this club called weekends Weekend Warehouse. And so that's what wouldn't have come back. But I had great times at Loretta's.

I had great times at tracks. I had even a decade before, several years before moving here. It was a club called in between. And that was, yeah, it was the early eighties and it was, that was, that was, that was nice. But Atlanta has had so many clubs. I mean, gosh, I probably draw black. There's been, I mean, you know, you think about the palace, you think about, gosh, there's just been so many clubs. Like the seven. Seven. Okay, back with street.

Yeah. Backstreet, which was that a place called the Metro. It was a metro, I think, on Peach street. Yeah. Okay. And that was, I had only been a couple of times, but it was a little more like a little small bar from whatever. But also during the mid to late eighties, there was a. What was before Lorella's was fosters, and Fosters was on Peachtree right at 10th. It was right next to what's called the Margaret Mitchell house. Okay. Yes. Right next to that was fosters.

And that was a fine, that was a real nice club bar that people attended. Well, the lady Loretta who owned it moved over to Spring street and opened up Loretta's. Okay. I have so a person I call my play mama who is here, who, you know, party here. Years before I was old enough to come, you know, relocated to Atlanta and start partying, start hanging out. He would tell me about a place called, was it the Pearl Garden? Pearl Garden. Okay. And was that pear garden. Okay, so it's paragard.

Was that downtown? Because from what I understand, if I recall, like, vaguely, there was a place down by where the Georgia State Rialto Theater used to be. You know where on that. What street is that? Lucky three. No, it wasn't lucky. It's actually down to, down there where the realtor is now, that part of the Georgia state campus where that. Ooh, I'm losing my train of thought now, as far as the name of that street is concerned. But was it in a little, little alleyway or was it on the main.

Street in that year where the broad street and I. That little one way street kind of section. I just remember there were a couple places, I wasn't even old enough to get into those places, but I heard about them. And when you said Ritz boys earlier, I remember there was a place called the Ritz. I think you had to go upstairs and it was, you could see literally, the Coca Cola sun, the old Coca Cola sign. Okay, so I'm not. Yeah, that came along later. Okay. Yeah, that. The Brits came along later.

But it was the same guys. It was Philip and I, David and those guys that own it. But ironically, that's what you're. The area where you're describing is where I started with them. It was a little bitty street called. Poplar street and Poplar street. Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, I started off with them there. We do late night parties and. And, yeah, so, yeah, that was, that's why I started with them guys.

And then, like I said, after we left there, we did actually, we did a club around the corner on, just a block over on Lucky street. It was called secrets. And we did that for probably about a year before we opened up tracks. And Sylvester actually came, performed there. And so, yeah, it was really a nice, nice, nice spot. And we did several things. Gosh, it was even a hotel right there on Lucky street called the Atlanta and hotel. We used to do parties on the rooftop there. It was quite a bit.

Atlanta is fun and it's still a lot of things going on. But for you ask about clubs and the period that, the era they did it for me was when I moved here in 86, I would say up to the early nineties, Atlanta club scene was just, it was really a lot of fun. It was really a fun period of time. And Atlanta had definitely had its share of queer, queer clubs and even just a ton of black clubs during that time.

And so to answer one particularly, I only use friends, the organization friends last weekends, because musically, that's what appealed to me. I enjoyed it pretty much every time, but I enjoyed going to several spaces. Like I said, it could have been Loretta's. I mean, obviously I was playing that tracks, maybe still playing tracks during that time, and. But it was just, it was just several. Several things.

And it was just, if you didn't feel like being in a dance club, you could have went to the. To a little drink bar like the paragarden or, you know, and just several spaces throughout the city. And like you said, it could have been a metro, it could have been wherever, or you could have went to those places earlier and then you felt like dancing. You will come to Loretta's, or you will come to tracks or you will come to, you know, 688 a weekend or whatever, but.

So, yeah, as we wrap up something, you were saying, this just made this pop up in my mind. Another memory was unlocked, I recall, and I believe I'm not going to say it was. I'm not directly quoting, but I believe it was. DJ Cedric once said that the biggest change, or the change, when he knew this, he knew that things had changed in Atlanta was when they moved the house DJ upstairs into the boom boom room, which was at the very top, and brought the hip hop downstairs to the main.

To the main floor. And he marked that as a. A pivotal moment in, I guess, the culture and I guess, just the appreciation for house music and things changing as far as dancing is concerned. Would you agree to say, like, my generation, we came in, we started integrating hip hop into the party, and because hip hop had become the major culture, especially for us coming up, that's what we related to.

And so, yes, we love some house music, but then we were also wanting to hear some biggie and some little Kim at the same time. What was your, what were your thoughts in around that era when things shifted? Well, I agree with Cedric. That was a very pivotal moment. And, you know, fortunately for me, I didn't. I didn't go through it, per se,

because I left Atlanta for a few years. So that was that mid nineties era when that occurred. And you're right. And I. But I would come back here or wherever I am, I would. I could see that happening. And what you stated is so true. And it was. I want to use more words, it was. I don't want to say disheartening, but it was, it was, it was. I know, again, we progressed with times and we would go with things that, and in most cases, go with things that are happening during that era in time.

So, you know, we can't always be stuck in the past, if you will. But I knew that that was the hip hop thing when it became popular and it had integrated into the black gay club particularly, it was because, obviously, you know, I'm a. I'm a househead to the day I die, right? But, I mean, I have an appreciation for hip hop and all that because obviously, I worked in a record store, so I know various forms of music, and so I appreciate them.

But to see that culture integrated into the black gay club, it was a, it was a little sad for me because the black gay clubs and black Latin and the gay clubs have always were known for the trendsetters. We didn't follow what was mainstream. We didn't follow what was on radio, this and that. We set the tone for fashion, for music, for whatever was hot and this and that, and to see that the black gay club particularly wanted to follow radio and the videos on tv and stuff, it changed the dynamic.

So, yeah, that's. He makes a very valid point. And so by it becoming that we lost the house, I think, I just think that I'm trying to say this without being negative or coming across a fence. I'm sure not every club that integrated hip hop was, was a bad or negative experience, but I just think when it became that, it changed the dynamic and even the mentality, if you will, of how gay men carried himself, you know, trying to emulate what they seeing, perhaps on video or listening to music.

It was just, it was just shockingly mind blowing to me. So. So, yeah, he's right. And so when I moved back to the city, which was around the Olympics time and stuff, I saw djing again, but I started playing most on straight clubs and then eventually got back to playing both. Now play pretty much exclusively black, a club or crowd.

And so it's been refreshing to me to see over the past decade that it's been an appreciation or resurgence, if you will, for what started off, even though it's once a month or twice a month now what I do. But to see, again, back to the point you were making earlier, to see get back to the house and what I do and the younger crowd is really embracing it. That's what. So I feel good.

But yeah, during that era, in time, it changed the 90 ish, it changed that when, when that, when the crowd embraced hip hop, it changed the dynamic of the club. So he said, you gets right. It did change. And again, to your point about establishment, I know business has to do what's in their best interest to make money, but again, all money. It may not.

If it's something that you're doing and you changing the dynamic, it may be successful for six months or a year, but if you don't stick to what who's been supporting you and man and being consistent, you're going to probably lose out in the long run. I know I got to your question, but I just making me think about all of that.

No, but no, I want you to express that because I think those are all the things that go into a sentiment that is being felt, but nobody knows how to put it into words specifically about what has happened to the landscape, into the atmosphere of the places that we're going to and that we're frequenting. But I am happy that I've had this opportunity to speak with you and to revisit those days, but also to, to give people an idea of what it really takes.

Like community is, it's like what people say about the church. Church isn't, isn't a building. Church is wherever you know you are, they say where two or more are gathered. And that's a sentiment that I think we can take with us and explore.

But please, Ron, I'm so appreciative of your time, but please let the people know how they can, where they can find you online and how they can, you know, if they're not already a part of your flock, how they can, you know, become a part of their flock and make sure that they keep up with you whether you're in Atlanta or wherever you're, you know, you tour. Please let them know how they can keep up with you.

Well, social media is going to be the best way to follow me right now or to stay with what I'm doing. Of course, I am on Facebook as Ron Pullman Soule. Pullman Soul being one word. You can reach me on Facebook and on IG, Instagram, Pullman soul. And usually on both of my accounts or pages, I keep the latest flyers or I keep a schedule of events that I'm doing. So you can just hit, just hit me up on those and that will be the best way to contact me as well. Stand up on the events that I'm doing.

It's again, my social media pages and, but also, if you're in the Atlanta area, you can catch me first and third Fridays at

the Atlanta Eagle. That's the Atlanta Eagle. Ross. Homie, once again, thank you. Thank you so much. Not just for spending this time with me and doing this, this interview for the podcast, but for what you've done, period. Like for the building blocks that you laid down for not just the party people, but also for people who come in behind you who want to DJ, who have this ambition of becoming a DJDeh.

Not necessarily a house DJ, but knowing that there's some foundational things that we all as DJ's need to practice and the community that you created, I think is a long lasting testament to all the work that you've done. So thank you. I appreciate you. Ron Pullman. Well, no, thank you. I appreciate you reaching out to me and allowing giving me this platform to express myself. And I'm grateful to you and Jay for making this happen.

Thank you for listening to I come alive stories of black gay Atlanta nightlife, brought to you by Q Points Productions. Special thanks to the Counter Narrative Project 2024 media roundtable for their support as well. Make sure you become a cue point subscriber so that you don't miss the next episode of I come alive.