ICE Raids: The Harrowing Reality for Undocumented Immigrants

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Good morning and welcome back to another episode of the Queer LBC Podcast. I'm your host Nino my pronouns are he him thank you for asking I have with me here my fabulous cohorts yo it's me Christophe your city top liaison my pronouns are he him and dad Dr.

Mikey here your local licensed and practicing therapist for entertainment purposes only my pronouns are he she all of them so what's the t sis the t is today and gay the status of andri hernandez romero today in homophobia hungary's orban accuses eu of orchestrating repulsive pride march today in yas uh supreme court rules to save free access to prep and other preventative care uh today what the fuck long beach lgbtq center agrees to settlement with former executive director

who was said who said he was fired for being a whistleblower, also in what the fuck Beyonce is racist no I'm just kidding, any of you queens know about any of these things? I do not but I'm also interested in that Long Beach LGBTQ center. The former executive director who said he was fired for being a whistleblower. All right. So the Long Beach LGBTQ Center has agreed to a settlement with the nonprofit's former executive director who filed a wrongful termination complaint in November 2023.

The situation was resolved amicably. Torres was hired in March 2021 and fired in August 2023. His contract had been renewed a few months before he was fired. But after Torres was suspended in July 2023, the board appointed Ellie Perez, who was a board member as interim executive director. Perez joined the board in 2021. Under nonprofit experience on her application, Perez wrote none, according to the document that Q Voice News obtained.

While she was a board member and before she was named interim executive, Perez voted to suspend and then fire Torres, according to the documents Q Voice News obtained. Perez was named executive director in July 2024, but her time has been plagued with controversy. The payout to Torres is the third troubling incident that happened at the center since last year.

A former board member sent an open letter to various elected officials and community members in April 2024, accusing Perez of making inappropriate sexual comments. Gaslighting, mocking, derogatory comments of clients, staff members, and former board members, and creating a hostile workplace by violent, aggressive, and persuasive threats actions to staff. Torres said his firing was retaliation for being a whistleblower, according to the complaint.

Torres complained in the center's board of directors in May 2023 that the nonprofit was operating an unlicensed daycare center, and it could be a liability if a child is injured, according to the complaint. Yeah, that's... Why would you be operating an unlicensed daycare? Now, technically, they probably don't consider it a daycare, but if you get staff members watching children... There's special insurances and licenses you have to have for that type of stuff.

Also, is that just like them like being nice to like people with kids? Right. But then they're just like, now you're jumping on these employees have nothing to do with this. It's like, I don't want to be watching no fucking kids. Well, the center, they have a youth program where if you're between the ages of 13 and 18, you can come in for like activities.

And they have like a center where they do like arts and crafts and you can get like homework help and all that stuff and they're like a queer affirming place. So, but that was the thing, like the age range runs between like 13 and 18. Okay. But so this is, because the way this made it sound, it's like those kids were under 13. You know what I'm saying? So like if that was the case, then I can most definitely understand why he would want to bring that up to the board. Yeah.

I was going to say, Because like having like kids that are under like 12, they're like children. And that's like a different person. That's like a different animal than like a 13 to 18 year old. I mean, that's also true. But then also like different training, I would assume. Right. True. True. But these kids these days, they grow up so quick. Like, you know, I mean, like seven year olds know how to use an iPad.

I mean, like they know how to use technology. And like, it's, it's kind of weird because you remember when we were young, we didn't really have those type of.

Adult type of uh nuances you know i'm saying like we stayed in the child's place but now like you can order your food on the app take care of yourself and you know like the children today are much more like self-reliant right i see i see yeah well they also have programs they have like a pride house community collective which is for kids age four to twelve and drag queen story hour so, and that makes sense right I think that the issue is less

about that there's kids at the center but more that there is an appropriate amount of supervision right because there is a there is a certain level of like ratio you should have for like kids safety you know and I think that if we are going to be offering services to our queer youth then their safety should be centered as such that's true yeah I mean you should always have all of your fucking you always need all your fucking licensing get with it girl yeah like the pen,

yeah and y'all could have just set boundaries and be like if your kid is coming then you need to stay and if you can't then.

But so this guy was fired for bringing that up basically yeah that's what he was saying why he was fired but they were claiming that he was like this heinous person no they, he was claiming that the new director Ellie Perez was creating a hostile hostile work environment, and she was on the board and she was on the board before she was named the interim executive director but also they didn't say how much the settlement was i'm trying to see what what did

you get paid like loss of wages and things like that i would imagine okay yeah i don't know because a wrongful termination you can get a lot of like that's right yeah and you know that i don't think the center got that much money, you know what I'm saying I like LA LGBT center that's true, but you know I think I think we I don't know it feels a little like ego right you know like if someone's bringing feedback to you that is warranted and makes sense then yeah okay I understand maybe your

feelings are hurt or you're having some sort of feelings about getting the feedback but this seems pretty legit in which you would want be mindful and aware of that process.

Get your license get your child care licenses supreme court rules to save free access to prep, what shocker right from the advocate the u.s supreme court on friday upheld a key provision of the affordable care act ruling in kennedy versus braidwood that health insurance companies must continue covering preventative services recommended by a federal task force including HIV prevention medication, cancer screenings, and vaccines.

The court ruled 6-3. That means the ACA's mandate requiring insurers to cover preventative services remains intact. The plaintiffs, a group of Christian business owners, argued that being required to cover PrEP violated their religious beliefs, claiming medication... What the fuck, bitch? Not just every... What the fuck? The whole cake situation again? HIV goes against your religious beliefs? It's because they don't believe in gays that they should have this.

Only gays... It violates their religion. Mm-hmm. That's fucking insane, girl. Like, the really insane interpretation of your fucking book. Anyways. Claiming that the medication encourages homosexual behavior. Girl. A lower court had previously sided with them, sparking concerns that the ruling could jeopardize nationwide access to dozens of preventative health services.

Medical experts and LGBTQ plus advocates emphasize that PrEP is used by people of all backgrounds and sexual orientations, and HIV does not discriminate. Say it louder. HIV does not discriminate. This is never about religious liberty. The statement continued. It has been about using LGBTQ police people as a scapegoat to push a broader agenda that punishes the vulnerable. And the truth is that most of the people harmed by this decision wouldn't have been queer.

They would have been working class families, black and brown communities, rural Americans, and anyone who relies on the preventative care to stay healthy and alive. Anyways. Well, that's great. Right? It is. I know. It's a big win. I love this. Very good. Very good. Like, this just feels like the whole, like, cake situation over again, right? You remember that?

Yeah. so like i just don't understand as to why can't these things be like filtered out it's like oh you're bringing up religion you want to make you want to have the government make a rule around your religion that is going to discriminate against people like why aren't we just throwing the cases away why they have to get this high to the supreme court this goes back to the idea that we've been talking about how it's always the same thing over and over again in a different kind of flavor

exactly that yeah it's just kind of like why are you even allowing this in the court like just say that it's stupid you know it's fucking stupid but i mean we know why because it's the fucking judges yeah the supreme court though has has been like handing out some decisions that are surprising given how it's stacked yeah so i appreciate that. I don't know what's going on with this big, beautiful fucking bullshit. I'm slow on that.

I don't really know. I'm kind of like trying to like not think about it. Yeah. Same. But I think everyone should be aware because it's like, yeah, they're like all, like they said, like this should be used for everyone, not just gay people. Because the reality is that straight people are getting infected with HIV at higher rates than queer people nowadays.

Days because we understand and are aware of our history we make some stupid decisions yeah yeah we do you know but i think we also know how to care for ourselves and and how to go seek support when our in terms of our sexual health yeah stupid ass that's like hobby lobby it's like girl shut the fuck up yeah i just don't understand how i'll never understand that argument of like Like how being queer and like providing medication is interfering with your ability to commune with your God. Yeah.

I don't understand that either. Oh, well.

Any other news? Anything real? What's going on with your real life? Did you guys enjoy Pride? I did. I just got back from San Francisco Pride. How was that? The weather was beautiful. The people were beautiful. It was a great time. A lot of walking. I don't know how people do them heels. But it was a good time. Went out to a couple of bars and Dolores Park and hung out and whatnot. So it was good. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I went on queer retreat this weekend up north, actually, not too far away from San Francisco. So it was like a Thursday to Sunday event and essentially like queer people coming together and just being in community. But there's also a lot of healing and spiritual work that happens. It's a bunch of workshops. This year they had a workshop on like sexual health and about like consent and how to communicate your needs.

To your sexual partner, which is beautiful. I think you definitely need that education. And there was workshops that focus on helping people heal from their trauma or connect with their bodies. So it was a really beautiful alternative queer pride. If anyone's interested in that queer retreat, check out Queer Soul. That's the organizers, the name of the organization. They do queer retreats twice yearly now, one in January, and went in June for Pride Month.

Oh, okay. Right? That's like something that people are always asking for. Mm-hmm. Gotta heal. Yeah. And how do you find them again? The Queer Soul. And soul is S-O-L. Like the sun in Spanish. Ugh. And the event is called Monteyum. Okay. Mm-hmm. That sounds beautiful.

Yeah, so come check it out. They do the retreats and they also do like an event called Something Beautiful, near san diego where you know there's people who come and do body work there is like a tarot reader last time me and my husband offered a sound bath and music to the event and it's a place just to kind of meet other people another person was doing pictures and they were like a drag queen and they're helping you kind of like they're doing a photo

shoot with you to kind of connect with yourself and oh okay yourself well not drag but just kind of just feel yourself right on picture. And that happens every two months, I think. That's the plan. That's cool. Definitely a great organization, and I'm proud to be on the board and to support it. That's great. I love to hear it. Yeah. What about you? I saw my Beyonce's mother. She's okay. So that's pride-related, right? These gay families. Gay love. Queer love.

It was his brother's birthday, So we went to Frito Misto in Hermosa Beach, I think. It's an Italian place. It was actually really freaking good. And it was nice. All the nice parts were nice. And yeah, I did that. And then I actually saw my dad this weekend also, which was random. So I saw all the parental units. So that was a time. And then I just almost had a heat exhaustion today. because it's very hot outside and I was working outside because I'm construction daddy, podcast fatty.

I'm glad you're hydrated. So I did. I was drinking so much water and I was still like, I'm just going to pass out. So it's very hot outside. And yeah, that's about it. Just happy to have a monetary source of income. Yeah, that's what we need. That's all that matters.

Amongst other things. Also very happy to have my Yancey and my dog They gave me lots of Love this weekend Cute, Budapest, Hungary Prime Minister Viktor Orban called Saturday's pride repulsive and shameful La la la la la I loved it, I loved seeing all those People out there defying, Would you defy Of course Or we divide all the time because we queer. Right. We are the resistance every day. We'll live and walk in the truth.

Right. But I thought that was cool. I'm like, ew, why are y'all trying to crack down? I mean, don't be cracking down. Anyways. Great. Yeah, I love seeing things like that. I think we definitely need to see and highlight more of people speaking out against homophobia and transphobia. Because it's so easy to get bogged down and focusing on like the negative and not see that there are people in our corner and there are people doing things to make it better.

Yeah. And that you're not alone. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You have allies. But that's what allies should do. Allies are the ones that should be like putting extra hard work into this process to get rid of like homophobia and transphobia. It's so funny just like how insane like government. That's so insane that the government just, like, chooses gay people to, like, make their political pawns in such like an insane way. Like you're saying that this whole pride event was orchestrated by fucking what?

No, bitch. It's people who fucking believe in the fucking LGBT shoes. It's people who exist. Right. People who are real. It's not make-believe. Exactly. Like you really bought that many actors? What the fuck? No. Everybody was paid how much to be there? Yeah, right. Show me the receipts, girl. Show me the receipts. Anyways. Any other queerness? Any other queer joy? My queer joy has just been my boyfriend this weekend. Or excuse me, my fiance. That's nice.

My queer joy was just being around all those queers and allies in San Francisco. Doesn't San Francisco have a different vibe in terms of Pride? It do. After the retreat, we went to Pride and we went to Dolores Park. And oh my God, that was just such a wild experience of so many queer people collecting at a park and being in nature and just doing them. Like there was a, people were obviously in their social groups. And their social groups with like tents and like canopies and just food and music.

They're like, you need a picture taken, you know? It was just like a really amazing experience. And I was like, LA would never.

Right, because I was speaking to somebody while I was in line to the bathroom and he was like, he likes when Pride comes around because it also bring out the best in people and San Francisco because other than that it's not really they're not really as friendly as what he said he was like doing pride here at Delores Park like it's all about love community this and the other but he was like any other time really it's not like that same vibe it's the same vibe in that sense but not

like joyful yeah you know like everybody you know having a good time yeah like a queer event yeah i love it i mean i i haven't been inside a like a pride festival in years i usually go like to the bars nowadays but i'm like this this event like really inspired me to like just hold up somewhere at a park and like exactly because that was like almost what that wasn't like. That was just a pop-up. Like, that's not where the... Because the festival, I think, was, like, in downtown San Francisco.

Yeah. But, like, Dolores is almost like, you know, like, the impromptu pop-up. Yeah, that's where everyone goes. You know, come up, right. Yeah. Well, actually, it looks city-sponsored because I saw a big banner that said Dolores Park Pride. It's on, you know, on the other side, like, on the other side of once you get onto the hill of the park. Uh-huh. There's a huge sign that says Dolores Pride. Oh, okay. So I'm wondering if it's like kind of like, because there was horta

potties too. It was definitely like city sponsored in some way. All right. Any other queer shit? I did something really queer, not queer. I did something really gay. No, just something that's like, I don't know. I just, I have a sticker collection. Oh my God. And it's like, I have these stickers that are like, they're like nice quality stickers.

They're like artistic stickers and like also like really good memorabilia ones and also really good Sailor Moon ones that I don't want to put on things and ruin it and like waste. So you collect them? Yes. Well, I just never stick them on things. Like I have the intention in my brain that I'm going to stick them on something one day, but I just collect them and hoard them because I'm too scared to like. It's too much commitment. It's too much commitment to post them. I feel you.

So this weekend I said, fuck it. I'm going to do it. and I'm going to re-evaluate my sticker collection and I post it on my little water bottle. But then I really only put the ones that were like... That you don't really care for that much no more? Yeah. Ranked order. Not my favorite. Not my favorite. I don't like you anymore. You go on the water. But then I thought like, what if I just put my sticker collection on display on like a punch thing and then it can just be on display

and you don't have to stick them. Is that like insane? How about you do this? How about you get, like, a frame and just, like, post it? Then you can make it art and you just hang it up on your wall. I think so. That's cute. Because I have these really nice Sailor Moon ones that my fiance gave me that I can't waste on like something dumb. And then you wash the water bottle and then it gets nasty. Like, no.

So, yeah, that's what I did this weekend. And then I reorganized my shelves in my computer room, which has all my knickknacks. So I was just getting like very like, I don't know what you would call that. Some spring clean. I raged all weekend. So I've. Get it. streets streets I swear joy right alright is that is you guys still thirsty I am no longer thirsty I need to stop talking I'm not too quenched I'm not too quenched alright, these queens have deserved a break.

Hey y'all Christoph here and we just wanted to say thank you for all the love and support but don't forget to go ahead and give us a five star review a like a heart a comment you know they all have the podcast a lot from all of us here at the queer lbc we greatly appreciate you now back to the show, and we're back so today i wanted to talk about immigration yes today we're breaking down what every immigrant ally and community member needs to know in these uncertain times and with us to discuss

we have two very special guests first we have immigration lawyer anthony and also we have with us a very special guest appearance from local celebrity chelo azul chelo azul was just hanging out in the studio today so i thought we would just pop him in for the conversation but anthony.

Why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself who are you what are you why are you Well, first, thank you. Thank you for the invitation. I'm very honored to be here. My name is Anthony. I am an immigration lawyer. I am from Southeast Los Angeles, where a big population, predominantly undocumented communities and population lives in.

It's very dense. If you look on a map or even Google this fact, in Southeast Los Angeles, it's probably the biggest population of undocumented folks, and not many people know that. So when I think Southeast LA, I think Bell, Maywood, Southgate. Bell Gardens, to name some a few cities. But for me, I am a person who's always been for my community. I went to law school knowing that I wanted to be of service to others, particularly given the experiences that I had growing up.

In Southeast Los Angeles. So for me, I knew it was my goal always to use my privilege, to use my education, to use any form of advocacy skills I ever gained to support my community. And that for me felt, that's where immigration came into the picture. It was right after undergrad. I don't know if you all experienced this. If you, if you happen to have that experience as a 21 year old, I'm like, what the hell do I do after?

I remember finding out about grad school or law school in my third year so when i went to college i was like wait i just don't become a doctor after these four years right like school yeah yeah i was like more school where the hell's my degree like where's like i wanted to be a doctor right out yeah you know because that's you know i went i'm a first generation latino queer latino from southeast la and for those reasons

you don't really hear anything about what education is right in terms of higher education so me navigating this process to get to where I am now, it not only took, for me, the resilience and the strength, but also my community behind me.

So I never forgot that. That was always really, really important to me that no matter what I did, no matter what path I chose, I knew that I would have to use my degree, my education for the communities that need it the most, which is where I fell in love with immigration law. That's so fucking great. Yeah. Aww.

Well, do you have any connections to Long Beach or do you work with the Long Beach community? as well? So I formerly did work with the Long Beach community.

I worked with organizations such as Orale, which is a really down ass organization that some of the best people I ever met who do great work with the community is organizing and particularly did some advocacy with Long Beach City Hall to get funding for Long Beach community members, particularly to do immigration consults and also do some work in regards to those who wanted to, who never knew about, let's say, their rights, right, as undocumented folks

or immigrants in general, because just because you're an immigrant doesn't mean you're undocumented. Those are two different things. But sometimes we use them interchangeably, right? So for me, I've done that advocacy. My connections to Long Beach stem from back, like, I would say, I would say for like at least the last 10 years, because even though I didn't service Long Beach community directly, a lot of my clients to this day are in this area.

So it's very important for me to know and just be a part of that community as well that's amazing yeah thank you for the work that you do and we love orale by the way so if you're listening we love all the work that you do shout out to my homies that they're the next guest, they should be they're amazing people yeah we repost order like all the time.

So what are you seeing with your client oh what am i not seeing is the question it's so funny because you know as in this position it's like folks will come to you with as you are the all knowing person right but like damn like sometimes i don't even know you know and there's there's i would say there may be like an expectation of this like you know of the status of the of the license that you will have the answers to everything and that everything you say is absolute right it's like oh can you

guarantee me that this can't happen xyz can't happen but the reality is it's like i could provide you what the law says but i can't also gauge what that reality is going to be and that reality is going to be especially nowadays very different from what it should be right so with that it's what i'm seeing a lot is now is people who are afraid people who are afraid to assert their own protection, to seek that peace, to seek that self-sufficiency.

Like I often see that with survivors of domestic violence and I'm getting reports now and just with my own experiences that people are afraid to even apply for that, to go to court, to want to seek those protections that are available to them. And it's disheartening. It's disheartening. It's sad. And it's very worrisome because even then it's that you think like, okay, then if the court can't protect me, if these people or this institution can't protect me, then what do I have left?

Am I being forced to now stay in a very abusive relationship because of that? Am I being forced to stay inside and have to endure other circumstances that I shouldn't have to or that the law guarantees me protection from?

And oftentimes, I respect what my clients want and what they do, right it's like I'm not going to judge you for being afraid to leave your home because we're seeing right now in our communities that ICE is essentially kidnapping people taking people, and really not not even asking questions later it's detaining now and asking questions later or even if that even if you have some sort of protection I've also heard reports across different community members and different

organizations that even if you have a work permit or some kind of authorization you're still being detained right it's that let's detain you now and we're asking questions later and almost almost violating people's rights and to that extent it becomes a hard thing when as lawyers or as a community member seek like a legal consultation or some kind of help it's that well in my opinion now i don't think the law is here to protect you

you know the law is not the answer here right so which is why i've i'm not only seeing like the really, really tragic and the really sad and sometimes very hard to work in these conditions. But also what I've seen is. I would call it like a light of sorts. You see how it would happen in Los Angeles, people, the protests, people standing up. Like I think in my lifetime, there have been several different forms of resistance.

But this is something, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm aware of it more now than I was when I was younger. Or it may be because of my privilege of being able to understand what these things mean. But I would say that I see people gathering and organizing and it's so fucking beautiful.

It's i have it makes me proud it makes me proud to be from la it makes me proud to to work with this community to be of service to this community because it's it's depressing it's tragic yet it's so fucking powerful that you leave inspired in some form or another that's amazing yeah i i like to i want to echo with what you said about how they're you know not protect not protecting people right they're really like violating everyone's

rights and i we gotta name it they are violating our rights but i think it's easy to see it how in that in that picture like well yeah like our migrant communities whether they're documented or undocumented are being targeted but this is something that all people go through all the time like right police do that to our black siblings so where's our black siblings rights there you know like and so if there's there's no rights to our citizens then there's definitely no rights

to the non-citizens and that's why you know together we got to be like also realizing like you can't just follow the rules like i know i'm not advocating i mean yeah cello azul not queer not queer lbc but cello azul is advocating for for violence and so you can come for me government or whatever but like i do believe that if in those situations where like the black panthers they had to take arms and they had to protect themselves and that's what what

we're seeing we're seeing our people de-arresting you know and i think that those are that's what we should be doing as community members is learning how to do arrest and. You know, coming through and stopping and not complying. And I think that's the part where if ICE is not complying with human rights, then we shouldn't be complying with ICE. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Because it's a legal, it's a whole legal like free-for-all,

right? Because, you know, If your rights aren't being read or you're abusing people or you're tricking them, kidnapping them, and then also denying the fact that you even have them in custody. Or like I think another thing I've been seeing just through not only my fellow, you know, other immigration lawyers is that now people are being transferred across. So it's being hard to even locate people like people are disappearing. That's on purpose.

That for sure. For sure. And I think, too, like in this whole in this whole fucking shitty situation, it's like I'm never going to judge people for how you choose to resist.

Because in a way all bets are off right so it's like why am i gonna judge you for you know choosing to react how you choose to if like if say you know they're trying to take away your parent right i i think i saw all the also the tiktoks kind of are really sad too you know it's kind of sometimes hard to find joy but what i see is the resistance what i see is the power and with that that's gonna look in different ways and i can't judge people for

shit for that reason right it's like okay that's the critique and it's always the critique of protest right it's like well don't don't it can't be violent or it can't be this it can't be that and i'm like well like that's also fucking privilege for you to say like where are you coming from in all this yeah and the greek the critique is always on the protest rather than the oppressor right you know i i read something where it's like.

Peaceful protests work great when the people in power have some sort of compassion, some sort of humanity in them. Yeah, they don't. Oh, I know. But then you can't fight fascism with peacefulness because they don't have that. They don't. They don't have that component to them. They just are seeking power and to harm people. Yeah. Was there a peaceful way to take down Hitler? Or was there a peaceful way that they took down Osama bin Laden? I don't understand. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look, like even people speaking out, like I remember, I remember recently the vice mayor of Cudahy. I don't know if you all saw that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She called out the homeboys. Yes, yes, yes. And now she's being investigated by the FBI. That shit's wild. Wait, say it again. I didn't hear. So there was a vice. I think she's a vice mayor. I forgot her name. Right. She's from the city of Cudahy. She that's who the constituent she serves.

And she made a tiktok about essentially calling like for the support of like the gangs right to to support against ice right i think something she said was like yes her name is cintia gonzalez yes yes and with that she she kind of said like well where are you at now like in reference to those folks that community facts yeah and with that like now the fbi is is involved or like there's a federal agency that's involved investigating that but

she deleted the tiktok like soon thereafter oh my god but now she's being invested like it's crazy i mean that's wild that's cool though yeah if you're not doing that your job if you're not getting fbi right exactly yeah and it's kind of a small right it's part of southeast delay as well it's really small i know that like predominantly immigrant undocumented and low income like for sure and with that it's like we're seeing we're seeing

the federal government even paying attention to a small city like Karehe, right? So is it fear?

Hell yeah probably is yeah but it's true though where are these cholos at oh yeah i was gonna say did they holler back where are you are you supposed to be protecting the streets bro you're not protecting the streets right don't want to patrol now bitch yeah so it's it's like also making a lot of people specifically people in power to like scared to say something right even if you see and you know here's another thing too like we're talking about people releasing

statements like every day it's a new statement from somebody it's like okay y'all like statements come on like we're done it's 2025 we need to do that we need to have action okay and it's like after every tragedy and every tragedy or some kind of legal impending doom decision happens it's like okay we have then the mexican american bar like saying something right and we have all the other like bar associations or at least in my realm or just

you know a non-profit organization saying something right but like at a certain time or another statements are just for me personally in my own like just my personal belief is that i've come to a point now where statements are just nothing but words right yeah like what are you doing with that reaction you need action and it's like okay y'all like anybody could release a statement like yeah what are we doing here like we need to be mobilizing we need to be

doing something yeah so so we talked about kind of like, Obviously, like the critique on violence and the need to kind of resist and de-arrest people.

But I'm curious, like, how does that work? You know, how? Because obviously we can do that. But then what is the response? So like, how would the judicial system respond to that? Well, first I want to shout out the National Lawyers Guild, the Los Angeles chapter.

They have a jail support LA, where if you do get arrested, they have people, they have lawyers, they have people who mobilize and support those folks who have been detained for, I think it's what are people mostly detained for civil disobedience or something like that. And they have a whole team dedicated to that. They are really good. They can also send legal observers at protests, which are people usually in green hats that are there just to monitor the situation.

In case somebody gets arrested, they can support, they get the person's information, they do what they can in that moment and then help facilitate things after or just making sure things go not as smoothly as possible because, like, what is that anymore? Just make sure they got a video going, basically. They're taking notes. So they'll take notes on the field. And if you are interested, they do do trainings for folks, committee members to be legal observers.

You don't have to be a lawyer. A lot of people, a lot of lawyers or some lawyers do do that, but you don't have to be a lawyer. I think it's anybody. You could be trained by them and they take notes. They do all these things that can help you then like can help folks who are detained by police, etc. Well, that's amazing. How do our listeners sign up for this? I would say follow NLG, National Lawyers Guild, Los Angeles chapter on Instagram.

And then they will have the connections right there to like their little link trees or the links to be able to.

They also post it every now and then. specifically given the current situation what's going on you don't say jail support la jail support yes yes yes very good are the police attacking these observers well see that's a really interesting question too because we're seeing like honestly have you heard you've heard the sanctuary city yeah yeah so what does that mean right we have issues with it it doesn't mean at first like you know if you hear that colloquially or just like you're thinking

like okay then everybody's safe like when i heard that like before law school i was like oh shit okay this is dope right we're good right we're chill we knock it up like people are safe if they come to the city but what that really means is that you're not dedicating the city is not dedicating money to enforce ice kind of raids or ice detentions that's all it means nothing else in that and because as we're seeing we're a sanctuary city and it's been a target of

the administration to hit up these cities, right? It just seemed like if we're a sanctuary state, that maybe the governor should have the NYPD or whoever the fuck is supposed to be guarding us.

Attacking the ice agents exactly right right so i think honeydenham park was a honeydenham park that passed something recently that said that because there's also like all this shit's happening right everything's chaotic everything's a mess but now there's like have you heard that they're bounty hunters yeah yeah that shit was wild to me like what is it what are we watching like is this a tv show here like that's crazy shit so with that too it's like okay so what

like you're leaving space for all these things to happen i also read read recently that a person posed as an ICE agent and sexually assaulted a woman. Yeah, we're hearing lots of those kind of stories. And like Sanctuary City, what does that mean? It's just the city resources. But with that, it's like, I think the justification there is like, okay, well, we're not enforcing ICE enforcement or raids or detentions. What we're really doing is ensuring that the protests like to combat the violence.

Right? Quote unquote, the violence.

But that's kind of also taking the form and passively or if not explicitly allowing like ice to just do what they want right exactly and then you get this like weird cyclical argument of like we're here to ensure peace to preserve peace but when has it ever right yeah yeah yeah cops don't bring peace not at all and and i think also we like karen may or bass is should be held accountable this is her city and she's not protecting it and in fact she's putting releasing the the cops on

their own people yeah right right right like if if you're like well this is and then they go on and say like oh this is terrible don't hurt our community it's like you have every power and you have every authority to protect your community and you're not doing it instead of you're allowing police officers to help and aid you know that's what we were watching is like the police show up and they block around so that the ICE agents can do what they gotta do that's

not protecting the peace that's protecting ICE agents then you go on there saying that you're not involved and this is terrible and blaming this all on Trump it's like no like how do you be like how dare you do that someone please stop.

Them even though i have all the power to do it and you don't do anything yeah see like even with our political figures right it's like mayor bass got a lot of shit because of the the fires right like she got so much shit for it and by the firefighters by all these different institutions and another one was that people think that the police are defunded she's actually increased funding for the police a lot a lot and like i don't want to hear that

like the defund the police is a reason why everything is like first of all it hasn't been defunded it's been increased.

Even with like what's his name, governor newsom like he's trashed too like he's been i remember like was a few months ago maybe two months ago he was aiming to defund medical for undocumented populations and then for trans people and for yes it's like come on be so fucking for real with me here because that kind of lines up with well from my understanding that he wants to run for president eventually right yeah it's, it's gonna happen okay yeah so then he's like okay how do i get on how do i

become politically align with the rest of the country let me attack immigrants but baby boy you're in california like that's not going to be that easy people are people are standing up and i think even some organizations were like i think they i don't know if this happened but i know the they were going to work together to be like if you do this if you eradicate medical funding for undocumented communities you will never be president and i thought that was like diva like yeah

i thought that was so country it's true though it is you can't do things anymore i feel like the clinton era was the end of an era of anon and anon and anon and anon and anon and anon and me right right and so it's like now we're all watching like we want to know where the next monica lewinski is so we're looking at what you're doing but can i say something like yeah okay also monica lewinski has a podcast i highly recommend everybody

watch listen to it i like her yes i've seen the episode of my series that's a little side note but shit how was it what was it on here.

About oh his did you are y'all on tiktok yeah okay have you seen his fucking posts like gavin what's gavin newsom's no i don't know okay well she kept up with my fyp like but it was like it was insane because put like you know there's professionalism whatever whatever right like the politics of it all but i remember seeing some there was two slides one was a slide of how trump was coming after california and the other one was a side of like fuck around and find out the graph and

i was like wait is this the governor's tiktok account that this came from yeah i was like okay this is kind of cool but also where the fuck are we that you're posting this shit yeah like what's happening like are we is this hell but also where's that energy when it matters right you know like same thing with robert garcia i always like to drag that hoe it's like where is it when it matters when it matters you know like you're all sassy over there fighting with girls on on uh on the senate floor

but when it really matters you're over here putting our children in cages in the long beach civic the center right here and fucking on pine yeah you know what i mean it's just like where are you when it really matters but then you're over here decorating your your office with marvel comics i'll stop i'll stop yeah yeah but i think that's another thing right like how are you gonna say you're a sanctuary city and then you're using. City buildings to house people.

That's not a sanctuary city. You're literally jailing people and contributing to the kidnapping. Allowing it to happen. Yeah. So that's how you show up. If you're a sanctuary city, then you don't do that. Also, I guess y'all gotta start boycotting AMPM and ARCO. Wait, where am I gonna get my chicken dicks? Because that's gonna be funding all this fuel and they're doing a lot of shit for ICE, I guess. Yeah, I just saw right now. I don't know. Let me get to the real facts.

Give us the tea mama let me get you the alternative facts the creative facts fake names i just made up the ai facts, British Petroleum BP, which also owns ARCO and AMPM Gas Stations, has the largest fuel contract with ICE and the Department of Homeland Security worth over $550 million. The Defense Logistics Agency is a U.S. Government combat support agency under the Department of Defense.

It doesn't only fuel military vehicles, it also provides logistics and fuel to other federal agencies, including ICE, CBP, which is Customs and Border Protection, and the Department of Homeland Security. That means that the DLA signs a fuel contract with companies like BP or Marathon. They fuel detention transport, surveillance vehicles, raids, and deportation flights.

Wow. Didn't know that. you know something i find very jarring when we're talking about like transportation and just, militarization of everything is that i was driving on the freeway and i saw a fucking tank i was like oh yeah where the hell am i like right what's going on where were we when we saw the police were or they were i don't it wasn't the police it was like it was a police vehicle it was a military it looked like a military vehicle and then you

look up and then it said uh police yeah and i was like why do they need a fucking tank yeah i think we're driving up north yeah we're we're on our way to the bay area and you know it's a fucking tank that's another thing too it's like everything is unprecedented right i'm kind of sick of hearing that fucking word in some respects but it is and i get it and one of the things that i was i saw recently is sometimes in immigration

court you can have your case dismissed actually there's a couple fucked up things that are happening or have happened particularly starting in san diego and then working its way up through California was that you can have your case dismissed by a judge, right? It's also a process known as administrative closure. And that basically means you're still, at any time we could bring it back up, but for right now, you're good, right? Usually that's for folks who have like TPS.

Like I've seen in the context of folks who have TPS. And now I'm seeing that. If you haven't applied for anything else that you could qualify for, they're bringing that back up and they're saying, I think the language I saw was, based on recent checks. And I'm like, what does that mean? Like, how are you, what recent checks?

Are you going through all your list of folks who, in the history of that court or what have you, it's, are you going through that list and then finding out who hasn't applied for anything, like doing extra surveillance on them, and then trying to throw them back into deportation? And that's kind of some crazy shit I've never seen. Like, that's kind of unheard of. Unprecedented. Yeah. They're like, we have a lead because you have something to do with immigration at all.

Literally, like, however, the language was, however, based on recent checks. And me, I'm like, what does that mean? They're like, bitch, you never do recent checks. Yeah, like, wait, how are you finding this out? Like, what are you doing? What records are you accessing? Or what are you doing to find out these things out? And it's kind of like that generalization of language, even the way they use those words, it's highly alarming.

What is your, like, your cohorts or, like, your colleagues or people that are kind of, like, in your realm and world, what are their reactions to judges being thrown in jail or being arrested or judges that are being kind of, like. Right. So, one thing that I saw was that, they started in San Diego, was that if a judge dismissed a case, then sometimes it meant, like, it's not that you didn't win. Dismissing just means we're just going to get rid of it. doesn't mean that you

won your case or not. It just depends on how that's being used. And what was happening is that they were dismissing cases and they still remained as undocumented folks, their status, and then outside the door or like outside the court was ICE to detain them.

Yeah, yeah, wild shit. So I was advised that if that is your situation, that the judge or the, they're known as, I call them ICE attorneys, but TA's trial attorneys, I forget what their official name is, but if that's your situation, and they're trying to dismiss your case, you say, no, I want this shit to go through. You oppose it. Because then that's going to be a reality is that they're outside waiting for you. It's a setup.

It's a setup. Yeah, it could be a setup. And so that's what I was advised, at least for folks in immigration court. But honestly, because of the funding cuts and because of how the insecurity of it all, folks have had to withdraw cases. Organizations have had to withdraw hundreds of cases because they lost all their funding. All their funding was federal. That's what I saw, too. I feel like they're going through a systemic cleaning

and scrubbing everything because they were going after nonprofits. Yeah. And so they're going after nonprofits. They're also going after students. Who are illegally here through visas, anyone who speaks in contrary to the government, then all of a sudden, boom, revoked, right? And so, and then any judges that are like actually, you know, doing what they should, well, I'm not pro-judge in any situation.

Like I think judges are part of the police department. And like I say, fuck the police, all of those. And so it's, I just, I'm seeing like the people that are being put into these positions of power are the people that are going to be working for the system, not against the system. And then anyone that has any sort of like remorse and works for the people, I'm seeing that there's a backlash for them as well.

I mean, I would also like to add to like, I don't know if you all know this, but immigration judges are appointed. They're not elected. They're appointed. So who appoints? Who's in charge of that? The executive branch. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what they think like checks and balances is? That's not a thing anymore. It sounds like they're really dismantling the judicial system. Who are we checking? Who are we balancing? Because that's not what I'm saying.

But it never really was, though, right? I mean, it never really was. And so, like, as someone who is, like, a person of color and someone that is going into the systems, what is your, like, what is your, like, is there points in your time where you're decompartmentalizing? Or, like, what's your experience as a person of color going into these oppressive systems? That's a loaded question. I think it's hard for me to compartmentalize when this shit is, like, in your face all the time.

When it's so in your face all the time and you have no choice but to but to really like deal with it and I think I rely on my community a lot to just decompress that's my form but then I also like I also I want to I want to do more right and I'm like that type of person that like I always want to be out there I want to do more I want to be like help in whatever way I can but like that's that will lead to my own burnout. So that's my form of compartmentalizing is like taking care of myself.

Because this work was hard before. This shit was hard before. This shit's never been easy because things have been changing. What's so funny is that I, well, for me, I think this is a little funny, was that I was working during the Biden administration and a little bit during Trump, and then I went to law school. No, actually, let me take that back. I went I was working in the beginning of the Trump administration immigration, the shift from Obama to Trump.

Then I went to law school. We were in Biden. And I'm like, OK, it's still not the like the best, but it's better. And now I'm back in Trump as a lawyer. So that is like kind of like a fucking kind of a mindfuck a little bit, because it's like I thought I just dealt with this.

Like, what the fuck? like is this deja vu like what the fuck no yeah but it's worse it's worse though because back when i was a paralegal like at an immigration non-profit it was it was still hard but it wasn't as fast so soon i'm like i i've talked to my my friends and i'm just like fuck like it's only been three months or so how much how how far are we into this shit like it's and it's really interesting because if you want to think about like the politics of it all it's like this was

a plan right and as we all know this was a plan this was not like just by happenstance this shit wasn't just like from one day to the next so i see why things are faster and coming at harder and it makes it that much more harder to deal with as like a person who provides like services to the community but then also that brings a question it's like my question was to like leadership and to these organizations to these institutions

like y'all knew this was coming like why didn't we plan better you know Like, we knew this was coming. We know why. I got a lot of messages. Anytime a Democrat lost, I get a text message. Please donate now. Please donate now. Democrats make more money when they lose. And they have to go. The reason why we went with Biden was because that's the only option they were giving us. But also, we went hard to elect someone that was not equipped for the job.

Like, why? Because we hated Trump so much more. And so I think that it makes sense that we have Trump again because the Democrats are going to be making more money. and they're like, let us, the not Trump party. We're like, the not Trump party. And that's literally what they're relying on.

And if they were to fight it and they were to prevent it, then they don't have a boogeyman to fight and fundraise for. Yeah, and I see that. Fundraise. It's like, my question is to the people at the local level, right? It's like, y'all, like, come on. This was, nobody... Everybody saw this coming, right? That we were going to be back in this shit show. But it's harder, it's faster. And without any form of just breathing room.

And that shit is hard for everybody. And specifically the folks who are particularly affected, right? Because one thing I think about particularly is the folks who have temporary protected status. That shit is on the verge of being cut every other day. And we see countries being targeted, like Venezuela. Venezuela was hardcore targeted by the administration. And then other countries like El Salvador, that's another one. They won that country over.

That's a different situation for sure. And just with even accessing shit like asylum, you know? It's restricted to certain people, right? Only Ukrainians. Yeah. Yeah. And South African white people. I mean, wait, wait, wait, South African white people. So can you explain kind of the difference in different immigration statuses that people can have? Yeah, of course. So whenever I meet somebody, I ask them primarily, like, have you ever applied for anything? Right.

So because it's important to know like people's histories because that's going to affect them thereafter. So I could think about one particularly is that I would say like in the 80s, 90s era, there's a lot of people who are hiring like notarios, notaries, right, who in their home countries can practice law. But here they're not lawyers. They're just people. They're just people with most likely no legal training or experience or what have you.

And these people were filing asylum cases that were going to lose, essentially. So... And because I don't know if you have often heard this too, it's like, oh, well, like I heard if I have like a child with special needs, like, or like some kind of particular disability that I could get papers. And I'm like, well, yes and no, because you would have to be in front of a judge. But at that point, when you're in front of a judge, you're kind of fighting for your life, right?

There are two people trying to deport you, most likely, the judge and then the other attorney, right? And that's if you could even get an attorney to defend yourself, because based on all this shit, like, no, like I ask every day, does there anybody who has capacity to represent people? Because I've seen that my clients need that too, right? In the court context. And with that, it's like, nobody has capacity anymore. Nobody.

So what the new strategy here is to educate our communities to represent themselves.

Like we all knew this was a problem that people there aren't enough lawyers to the to really like fix that need as and there never was with community work and with that like you're also having to ask questions like are you currently undocumented meaning that you don't have a work permit or some kind of legal status like a green card or citizenship or have you ever applied for anything because sometimes when you apply for something or somebody applied for you in the past that can

help you that can help you we often see that in the context of like family petitions right it's like oh, pues. Mi hermano me pidió, like, antes de 99, like, my brother petitioned me, like, before 1995. And I'm like, oh, shit, this is good. Like, so you ask those questions about their history. You ask those questions about...

Has happened with them because that's going to give you a context as to like what they can do and sometimes and it breaks my heart there's not an answer is like before during the biden administration i like my go-to was like right now there isn't but like let's hope for comprehensive immigration reform yeah but you know that never came so you have to see you have to kind of weigh that too so we have our folks who are undocumented who don't have any status no form of protection

no work permit, no nothing, right? We also have our folks who are kind of an in-between, right? Let's say like DACA. You hear like people are not, they're not undocumented, they're DACA-mented. I've heard that, I've seen that a lot. Or people who have a work permit, but they don't have a green card yet or will possibly never be able to apply for a green card and will need to just have a work permit for the rest of their lives. Wow. And then what, sorry, I had the question real quick.

I'm aware that people can appeal a judge's decision. Right. That's something that can happen. Like the judge makes the decision. You're like, nah, I don't agree. And you appeal it. Right. Yeah. Is that something that our undocumented community members also have a right to? Yes, they do. The issue there becomes these appeals are very complex. So it's not going to be successful if you don't have a lawyer, or most likely.

I'm not going to say you're never going to be successful, but it's a hard process to navigate because at the appellate level, you're trying to say whether or not things were done wrong with the facts of their case or with the law.

And sometimes people appeal i've seen people appeal mostly to buy themselves time because that's what they want they want time and the way to do that is through appealing but at every you appeal from immigration court to the board of immigration appeals and then if you lose there you can appeal one more time at the ninth circuit the ninth circuit court which is like a federal court there's a couple here in california.

Yeah so it's it is but like i think it's hard and that's a like i'm a whole ass like lawyer or whatever but like i could just imagine too it's like shit like you have to read cases and write a brief and do this and do that and that timing is very it's very quick it's a really quick turnaround so it's the question becomes you can appeal but one can you find a lawyer in time and two can that lawyer submit with the deadlines and then some of these pro bono lawyers that are out there and that

work for like organizations and stuff what are these organizations that pay for this and how do our rich long beach listeners donate all of their rich gay money at donate all your money to immigration rights orgs but you know what's really interesting about that question too is that private sector got involved too but i don't know if you all seen this too but the trump administration was going after these private firms for supporting like for kind of first of all

it's an attack on DEI, of course, because they got rid of all their positions. But it was interesting because instead of like some firms, they have pro bono goals, right? They have pro bono, like, I want to devote my mission to supporting queer youth. I want to devote my time to doing, let's say, like criminal appeal or what have you, right? But with the Trump administration, they attack firms and were threatening them.

We're like, we're kind of revamping their idea of pro bono, not to support immigrant communities, but most likely to support, like, let's say, police misconduct cases, you know, so their goals were being shifted and being forced by the administration. And it was, it's the people, there are some firms that fought it, but there are some who just acquiesced. They're like, nah, we're going to do what he wants.

Because that's the thing too. Now it's like, you're kind of cutting off these resources, but in terms of organizations, I would say donate to Esperanza immigration rights project, love them. They're the people who are.

Educating the community to be able to represent themselves because there's just not enough lawyers and people even like because of the funding got cut off people are now lawyers are doing this for free like they're providing free services because what else you know like what are we what do you want me to do like like there's there's two sides to this it's like our own ethical like the like our own values about being down for the community but also it's like your responsibility as

a lawyer too sometimes you can't get off a case unless certain things happen so you're still responsible and if you don't you can have a complaint filed against you right but what i'm seeing is that if people can't it's a financial burden right like if people can't be paid for their work it's like well how are they supposed to pay their bills so as a result many organizations have had to withdraw hundreds of cases even let's talk about unaccompanied minors like they had to which will

hunt like crazy shit crazy crazy shit and since all their funding was federal that's where you should you should donate your money to kids in need of defense you should donate your money to esperanza immigration rights project that's those are really great organizations and right now we're like a like the immigration community the our service providers we're in like.

All hands on deck situation so anybody anybody down like and legally like if you have any experience or even willing to mentor folks to do that work that's really needed too because people want to be involved but you also have to be competent to be able to navigate that shit because that shit's complicated and we need people to if you if there's any pro bono lawyers that want to represent people in court hell yeah hell yeah because sometimes like i would say sometimes the education part

of being able to represent yourself is okay but that has its uh x that has it's challenges too like i have certain clients who are disabled who are blind like how like or like are hard of hearing like how's that supposed to how are we accommodating those folks yeah or like kids who are separated from their parents you know so if you're rich donate your money to them or if you're a lawyer or know any lawyers who are willing to donate

pro bono time contact those organizations and they could arrange like a case for you to take on or Or maybe even more than that. So you mentioned kind of teaching people for their own defense. So what tips, what advice comes along with that training? Yeah. That's a really good question. What tips, what advice comes with that is the ability to not only to know what you're walking into, right? Because in immigration court, you have kind of two different types of hearings.

You have your merits hearing your individual. And one of those hearings, you have to present your case. So I think there comes with knowing what it's going to look like.

Even knowing what to say is important. like because sometimes you'll have to admit to certain things that are in the paperwork but certain depending on who you're working with it depends on whether or not that's you want to do that right so i think these organizations particularly esperanza i'm talking about would help navigate that process because court is scary enough especially with everything that's going on yeah but having an understanding of what you're walking into how

to navigate that how to even like do simple things like check in with the clerk you know do do those little things those little administrative things makes you feel better and that's what all forms of court if immigration court it's with even civil court which is like if you're looking for any anything else that's not criminal basically and it also provides you tips on how to present yourself right because one thing you don't want to do is contradict yourself especially if

you're saying like what if you're saying you're fearful for your life but then you do something that doesn't really show that like one example i see is that in asylum cases where like you're telling you're telling these you know the judge or your officer who whoever you're in front of that i'm afraid to go back to my country but then you went back like you went back some time before that you know so it's like are you really like you don't want them to question your own credibility

right speaking of asylum there was a gentleman who got picked up by ice who was from i want to say el salvador and he of venezuela And he came over here because, you know. He was gay and he was afraid for his life. Which is, you know, what asylum is for. Then he got picked up for ICE because he had a crown tattoo with mom and dad on it. And so then they shipped him off to El Salvador and they haven't like there was no proof of life.

Almost like 50 days of no proof of life from the camp in El Salvador.

What's your thoughts on that? see this is this is if you have time i would say like look into their senate hearings how i don't know if y'all look listen to those where christy known was being i know yeah i know crazy crazy where christy known was answering for these things and it's it's i think like you can see this shit all day and every day but then like you hear what these officials say you're like wait like i'm like how you

get this job like what the fuck that and like where the fuck am i like that i'm hearing this like is this real like no you can't be fucking with me here like i don't know if you listen to the one about her talking about habeas corpus and she i was like girl what are we doing. So my opinion about that is like, it's a tactic, right? It's a tactic, and it's fear, and it's working. And it's one way to, it's, of course, it's fucked up, of course. And it makes me feel hopeless, if I have to be honest.

It's kind of tragic to know that, as lawyers, you're indoctrinated that the law is the supreme, the constitution is the supreme law of the land. You're indoctrinated to really analyze it and And to see how it's evolved and how it changed and how it could help. Actually, maybe how it can help is two-part reach. But I would say that it makes me realize that, once again, and I said this earlier, it's like the law is not going to be the answer here.

The law isn't. And this is when I go back to these protests, where I go back to community speaking up, where I go back to people's stories.

And that's why I got into the law to begin with with storytelling storytelling is so so important to me like to be able to you know talk about people's stories and how it's led them to where they are now is one of the reasons that I I got I became a lawyer because it builds you it builds a connection with the community like no other and it builds that relationship that otherwise would be otherwise would be very hard to have particularly in the work that I do you could be a lawyer and interact

with people at all but that wasn't my that wasn't my vibe i'm not like sit behind my desk and just like like i don't know get my vision even like my vision becoming even worse right i got into this work i got into community work because i believe i believe that the community deserves representation i believe that community stories need to be told and in a way that it's kind of like a in a way like a fuck you to the system for me like particularly let's some

things i think about are like expungements you know where people have been arrested and they want to get rid of it but we're talking about we're giving context we're humanizing to this person's story we're talking about where they came from why this happened and how they're different so and it's the same thing with our undocumented populations too when they apply for something not everybody has a clean record.

It's that undoing that criminalization and doing that really like fucked up narrative and we we kind of reframing what's happened to them as well that's beautiful and in in lawyer education is there like ethics is there like and i'm not talking about like like practices but like for instance we understand from history right that law doesn't necessarily mean right right because it's like the law says you can't drink from this water fountain if you look like this right

so we know and have that understanding as people and human beings who grew up in this world that laws aren't always just so how is that how does that is that ever even mentioned or brought up in lawyer education you know it it was a little bit but it depends on who your professor is or depends on who's teaching you because i've heard it where i had a i had a professor who was like i remember him saying something along the lines of like oh like is hispanic even

a racer is it like what is this you know yeah and speaking out against that was like hell and high water with that one but the there the answer is no the answer is we are taught ethics and we have to do a whole exam about it shout out to richard nixon shitty advisor for that one because we have to pass a good moral character test ourselves like a whole ass application where you list like where you've lived since you were 18,

what jobs you've had and volunteers and everything legal you've done since you were 18. So for folks who are older, that shit's like annoying. But at the same time, the ethics part of it is you're learned about what your duties are, but those duties are never in relation to community, right? Those duties. So you have to seek these opportunities out. And which is why like law school is very hard for people of color.

And oftentimes why the retention rate is so shitty and why bar passage rates are so shitty because there's never any.

There's never any reality into the situation if you know what I mean like you could be taught all these things but honestly that shit has to come from you you have to seek these things out and it's your morals that that carry forward or whatever your values are your community values if you have any because oftentimes you're not going to find people who think like you if ever in law school and the people that do very far in between very very far in between and that's who you that's

who you hold on to right so you hold on to those people to then talk about these things to then And say why it's important that you need to be involved. That you need to give a shit. That you need to do something. Yeah. I feel that that really resonates because in my graduate program, like, there wasn't a major emphasis. Well, there was. Like, we learned, we had a multicultural, year-long multicultural class. But the class was really tailored towards, like, learning, like, stereotypes.

And it felt like it was just perpetuating things rather than, like, providing an understanding. So I feel like graduate school is really, it's a colonial thing. It's just fortifying the empire and to kind of like keep being status quo. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Wild but i know i know we focus a lot on kind of like the court process i'm curious like, can you talk a little bit about kind of before you get to court like being stopped by ice you know because i hear there's there's there's things going on about like there's a difference between being stopped by ice and how to interact with them when they come to your house versus like when it's in public yeah and so this is where the law comes back in gotta love your fourth

amendment work so the fourth amendment i mean see like okay we could talk about it i'm gonna give my like this is what should be the situation versus what what really happens because you see very different things playing out in social media yeah even given like what your quote-unquote rights are to be so there's more protect according to the fourth amendment there's more protection when you're like in a in a place property so you're inside so because i don't even i

don't want to get into all that fucking history but basically there's more protection than you are outside in a public space so if you are inside and somebody knocks at your door and it is ice what should happen is that they should present to you a warrant a warrant a judicial warrant right that can allow you to do that there are administrative warrants that are signed by some immigration officer or a judge that's not that

ideally that shouldn't give you access to enter somebody's place or bombarding or just like fucking knocking the door in yeah yeah but the reality is that has happened. So what should happen is that if you are in public and you do encounter an officer, that you should say like, first of all, you shouldn't give any information, voluntary information, because that could be used against you. So you have to exercise your right to remain silent.

You have to exercise, you have to say, I invoke my right to remain silent or ask for an attorney thereafter because after that it's like you say those things and you keep saying those things because anything you can say they'll like they'll use against you like if for example i saw where obviously the fbi was collaborating with ice there sometimes folks request their records but they're using their own records to like determine that

this person is not wasn't born in the u.s that they were born in another country and therefore use that as proof to further try to deport them so bigger protect more protections if you're inside and after in public it's a matter of exercising your right to remain silent and exercising your right to counsel because you say like i want a lawyer right now you don't make it like i think i need a lawyer will i need a lawyer no you

say it because if it's ambiguous that's further that's further reason for them to just take you oh i see yeah. So once again, I need a lawyer right now. I invoke my right to remain silent. So I would say, I would say invoke your right to remain silent. And then you ask, are you being, am I being detained? And then when you're being detained or like, quote unquote, seized, then you're like, I need a lawyer. I want a lawyer right now. What about this? Okay. You're sitting in your car.

Knock, knock, knock. Roll down the window. I, you just immediately say like. Yeah. So that's a, that's a, you can come up with every situation, right? And I think you could still stand by those things. Right. But like the thing there and when you're being stopped is like, will you will it be used as like, oh, this is a traffic infraction and then for the reason to detain you. Right. So I say I think one thing important also, and I would shout out Bet Setic, which is another immigrant.

They do immigration work as well, is family preparedness. Family preparedness is creating these plans in case shit goes down who's my contact who's this who's that the buddy system like if i don't come home by this day this time like or this time please like reach out to a lawyer or having to know where your documents are so family preparedness is really fucking important too i would emphasize. Music.

Well with that we're gonna take a small break.

So do you have clients that you've worked with that have been like torn away from this country like right now no not as of right now but i do know that one thing that you also like think about is that a lot of folks come to the u.s and you know that american dream shit right and oftentimes times like they have to leave their kids behind so it's not because they were torn away here by ice as of now I mean maybe I have but I haven't heard yet who knows there's a shit

show every day right but what I have seen is you know people not being able to be reunited with their families so for like 20 plus years right and it's it's that capitalistic kind of I don't know like trap up. Right. And it's like, well, shit, I left my country either because the poverty, the living conditions, the the fucking my life was being threatened to come here for the same thing, you know?

Yeah. And I think to add on to that is is also understanding that the reason why there's poverty in other countries and it's a bad living environment is because of America's doing the imperialism of the right. Right. I mean, one thing I will say is that when I have done certain cases. It like, you know, we I appreciate all the work that people have done with protesting, with organizing, with community in general.

But when I work with folks or when I have work with folks who are applying for asylum, for example, you hear some of the most downest shit you've ever heard in your life.

Like I remember I heard a story I was doing a declaration and she said this to me in Spanish but I'm going to just repeat it in English here she was like although I knew I was going to lose my life I knew this was going to go for a good cause it was going to go against the government for everything they've done against them because I think during that time Nicaragua was trying to get rid of social security for older folks so she she said like although like I knew I was gonna lose my

life i knew it was for the cause it was like this higher higher like self kind of vibe and i just felt that so deep in my fucking soul it's like you're i am not gonna hear the shit like this if ever but when you see people who are like when you work with people there's some of the most downest people you've ever met and some of the like, be tragic yet the most beautiful fucking stories stories of resilience stories of power stories of fucking inspiration

you know it's like you came here to this country because you were afraid for your life because you were essentially like blacklisted because you couldn't no longer survive it survive in those conditions right because your life was being threatened tortured what have you and you come here and you have to you have to recount that trauma and i think that's what immigration law is too it's recounting your trauma and so as a lawyer i do my best to.

Really like lessen that it's kind of unavoidable in some respect and some cases are much more it depends on each person too because some people have processed their trauma in a way where it's like i want to when i ask them like what about their professional personal goals they say i want to help people just like me who've been through shit like me because i don't want anybody to ever go through something like this ever again and that's something i hear often too or like even something as basic

as like i want to be able to provide for my family you know and in these conditions where usually folks or sometimes folks are street vendors but you know given what's been happening in la with the ice raids that that's no longer afforded like if you've been around your community and when i drive around mine it's much it's it's bleak right after it's like oh i remember there was a like that the takisa the takero that was right there every day and then you see these ice raids happening and it's

just they're gone it's silence it's and then that also makes you think like like undocumented immigrant communities really hold this shit down yeah right yeah always have always have and to not see that beauty anymore in your own community it's it's fucking bleak and it's just like and then that brings me the question like how do you maintain hope in that right how do you how do you survive how how does one cope with this certain circumstance.

I saw on social media a lady selling hot dogs at the protest like feet from the police that gave me hope yeah i was middle of the freeway yeah you know what also gave me hope was like how quickly like the community gathered yes like how quickly i mean certain cities did more and i and i and i congratulate them and some didn't do as well so some of y'all got tested and some of you didn't pass but we need to like step it up you know and like but i do understand the fear like if there's.

Then it's kind of hard. You know what I mean? You can't just have one person run up to ice and stop. It's like, it's got to be a lot of them. You get everyone to be down. It has to be a lot of us. Like Bell. Bell's down. Fuck. Bell, Jesus. It's like, I live really close to that location too. And the thing is like, once again, we undocumented folks, like you, because I used to work with other community orgs too. Like we, another organization I would like definitely shout out here is called Clean.

They organize and do work for car wash folks. Folks who work at car washes. They help with any like labor violations or just support and they do amazing work. So I would highly suggest everybody go follow them because they too are some of the, like they do a lot of mutual aid as well. Like they do grocery runs, they accept volunteers.

And that's another organization, the Garment Worker Center, like community or organizations that support folks who, folks like that, folks who do the jobs that no, you know, we always hear undocumented communities and immigrant communities do the jobs that nobody else wants to do. Right. And in Bell, that was a situation, right. is that ICE was targeting locations where undocumented people would be. And it's like, that shit, like,

come on. And like, I remember they also hit up the place I go to, too. The car wash location that I go to and support and like frequently go is, and that's just, you see, and then like nobody shows up the next day for work, right? And it's like, you're destroying businesses, but you're like, more than that, you're fucking up people's lives.

And so my question is, too, it's like how do how do these people like sleep at night you know ripping part families oftentimes with no like no like that person is the breadwinner you know we see that with day laborers too well i mean nazi germany you know you went to work and then you came home and you kissed your daughter good night i mean i know how they sleep at night with with nothing no remorse nothing they're

just like oh it's with cognitive dissonance right yeah it saddens me to see la gente. Working I hate that so much when I see like a brown cop I just like bro you could pick any job any job yeah and that's the job you chose and it's worse when they're brown and cute, oh I can't even speak on that I didn't want to look at them I know are they on the front lines are they on the front lines though mmm I've seen some in some videos yeah.

And that's the horrible thing is just like putting the community against the community. But I mean, you chose that job, sis. Like, what the fuck is wrong with your brain? I mean, they think they're, I don't know, different, better. Does the white man like you more now? Maybe.

I guess that also like brings into, because, you know, if you want to, one of the really interesting things too is like, that I find is that when you talk to even undocumented people, the division, the division in immigrant communities is kind of insane too, if we think about it.

It's this concept of like you know well i came in here legally they didn't you know that's one of them and another one is just like countries who like like people from certain countries that don't fuck with other people i hate that i know i hate that when my parents were trying to pull that bullshit on me i was like nah dude i go to high school with the chilean argentinians have a dorian, like all of us we're all here puerto rican

like we're all here like none of everybody hates nobody for no dumb reason like squash that shit quick don't even let that happen like nah but see it's that rhetoric right it's like when you're target like let's say asylum seekers right and other folks who are let's say they entered a different way or what have you maybe they enter with a visa they're like well they're just they're saturating the the the system right well they're doing this they're doing that and

it's like well like you can't see shit too you know and however from different standpoint it's like i tried i reframe that i'm just like okay well that's like first of all that's not what we're talking about you know we're talking about you but that that's just something very jarring to see in like in person specifically when i felt it or seen it or and heard it i'm just like what the hell like what the fuck like it kind of hits you out of nowhere.

Sometimes it's pretty fucking sad yeah like who got a chance for raid, i'm curious like what like what hope can we give like it like a migrant person because i feel like their unique population because me as a queer person can go out on the street and protest right me as an as a latino a citizen can go out and protest but like i feel the migrant community they there's so much going on and they're so fearful they stay home right and i think that's where mutual aid comes in.

I've seen a lot of orgs are doing donations. They're accepting donations and then also asking for volunteers to drop off groceries at people's houses. I think that's very much needed specifically because of that fear, right? And people are staying inside. That affects their income. People aren't showing up to work anymore or haven't. And that's what they need, right? They need like, yes, fuck capitalism and it's fucking bullshit. And I totally get that. At the same time, people need to survive.

Yeah, we're still in the system. That's still in the system. Like, until we have an alternative system, then, like, let's talk. But right now, it's, like, people need to fucking survive. People need money. People need groceries. Yeah. You know? And that's real. And, like, I can't—I also won't fault people for fighting for—or just needing—. To survive things. Right. So that's where I feel like it should be needed and kind of take, take like your energy to as well.

But also like, like, I also know my, for example, one question I've had to myself throughout all this shit is like, what is my place? Like, where do I fall into? How can I support my communities? Right. And I know that I'm not an organizer. I know that I'm not that girl and that's okay because I want to use other skill sets and other things that I could support my community.

Right. So like, in thinking about this too it's just like okay cool i know what my place is and my place is not here however what else can i do there's always something somebody could do and that's kind of what i why what i want to like contribute to is that like just because you're not like quote-unquote the downest person to protest doesn't mean you can't contribute other ways like mutual aid is so needed and i think it's for me personally mutual aid has been a thing that it's

always existed right but in this circumstance how everything is so in our fucking faces mutual aid is important and that's what people can do too and and if you don't want to quote-unquote put your body on the line what have you that's okay contribute though do something you know we talk about we talk about these statements we talk about words we talk about people posting a fucking repost right and yeah that's not i guess i could see

i see that's important too in its own way but like what action is there besides you simply reposting something on social media? And also it's like, oh, you're reposting things, but where were you last time? You know, like sometimes I also feel that. People who want to be involved, it's like for, it's performative, I guess. And it's like, are you really down? Like, what, like, is racism just something you discovered yesterday?

It's xenophobia, something you just discovered, like, last week, you know? It's like, okay, let's do some work here and let's see how we could fit, put some energy towards the movement. 100% agree. What would you tell somebody, let's say they're the family member of a person who has just disappeared. All of a sudden, nobody came home. What would you tell them to do if they suspect they might have been taken away? I mean, see, this is where we have to tap into our networks, right?

So I know each, I know LA has one. I think Long Beach has one too. It's called a Rapid Response Network. And they have a team of organizers. Each different city has one, I believe. I know LA does. LA is run by the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights, CHITLA. And they do good work too. And they have attorneys where they help locate people and help get them out of detention. So we need to be connecting to our rapid response networks to see what the next steps are.

The hard part about that is that not everything is so cut and clean and easy to like do, right? So if we're seeing that people are being moved around, I think people have been moved around from LA to Texas, you know, and vice versa and back and forth.

And, you know, once again, I think we said it earlier or someone said earlier, it's a tactic and yeah, fucking real i would say immediately we need to get in touch with our rapid response networks to see what can we do and that's just not only a team of lawyers that's a team of also organizers and community members too awesome yeah but there is online if you do have a if this does work it's called ice locator if you google it you have their name i believe they're a number and date of birth.

Yeah thank you legal information legal information resources resources yes these are resources everybody yes and it's easy Google search. Any other immigration questions anything else, I don't know. I feel like I've learned a lot today. I know. All the questions were answered. Anything that you need people to know? Well, TED Talks, if you're hearing this, hire me. That'd be great. So I guess, like, for me, I always ask, like, some things are harder than others,

right? And I work directly with the communities. I have the privilege of being a citizen, so it's very different. But there are a lot of folks who are impacted who are also doing this work.

You know in a different way so i think like one thing i i lean on is i think in order to do the work that i do i have to have hope and like i know that may sound corny as fuck but like hope is i need it because if i don't have hope then what's the point you know i need to hope that like and this is where like when i see la coming together that should make me so proud like it made me so proud to be from la because you know growing up here and going to these through these institutions.

It's like you implicitly become ashamed of where you're from in some form or another because of classes and because of people I remember I'll never forget this shit I remember I was I was gonna be a doctor back in college and I sat I did my first chemistry class and this girl she was a she was a white girl she was like oh we're gonna pass this class we're gonna pass it and I'm like okay yeah yeah for sure for sure like first day getting to know people and

then she was like my dad is a organic chemist and my mom is a biologist and i was like cool cool yeah great and then she was like what do your parents do and i'm like not that like no they're like not that you know and she didn't talk to me for the rest of the quarter i know i know so it's like doing shit like that as a fucking 18 year old you where it's like everything is so new it's hard on you and sometimes like you internalize that shit right but when you see like la

really rallying together it's like fuck like there is hope like there is and it all goes back to the community it all goes back to that same drive and.

Fight and when i see that it like it pushes me forward so i guess like yeah corny as this shit sounds like you gotta have hope that not things will get better but like this shit has happened before not particular maybe not in this circumstance but our communities have face injustice before and we've come back so like ideally or another i hope this isn't forever but i do know that people need to be together and they're like eradicate

that divisiveness eradicate all that shit because everybody's under attack right and it's like it's these little norms that will then establish a bigger picture of more fucked up shit yeah so what do we do not to cope but to combat right to intervene to even if it's not like on this grand like lawmaking scale but Like, I feel like.

Doing work with people directly like that's where i find my peace to know that like you know it's not you're gonna take a lot of l's in this work you're gonna take a lot of l's all the time but when you have like even one win that shit like you carry you hang on to that shit for dear life and you keep going you know and that's where i want to end with that it's like gotta remain with your hope you gotta find your joy you just gotta hang on to the things that

keep you sane and especially if you're doing community work because that shit isn't easy and then sometimes you get asked all the time like well like how's it going like and i'm like well how the fuck do you think it's going like what do you want me to what do you want me to answer to that you know like have you fucking been on google or whatever the fuck you're doing the room is on fire and then yeah and two it's like i could be i could be like a i could

be an asshole about it so i gotta like also check myself but at the same time it's like okay don't ask me a stupid bitch question. I have one more question i don't know how would you envision how you how do you imagine like a more just world you know like a way to i don't want to for me i don't feel like it's keeping the same system but i'm just curious for you like what is, damn yeah i mean it all starts from fundamentally like i remember when i was beginning this work Right.

And it's like, how does this shit come to be? Right. If you all want to explore like a fucked up case, the Korematsu case, the Japanese internment camps that that was like, that's kind of like a key indicator of how.

National security can be used to justify anything anything right the internment and japanese people like that is one of the cases that stuck out to me because i'm like wait how did the u.s allow this shit to happen and in envisioning a just world i have to envision that borders aren't real because they're fucking a social construct right they're like the levels are crazy of like how the fuck did this shit come to be how did we get so how did

we get so militarized and like criminalizing everything you know and one of the things that people do a certain thing is like well it's a crime to enter the country illegally quote-unquote right but i'm like okay but who says who you know like so i want to say that yeah it's not in the constitution oh no no i mean it's i mean it for that to be that would mean that we would not legally have any tourism right because they would be illegal just to be here right so it's

like what the fuck that doesn't make sense it's no like nothing makes sense that doesn't need a passport to enter a country that gets to besides israel it just gets to like just come and do whatever they want for real i don't think this i don't think so because airplanes and then through the border you need a passport now everybody's yeah i remember in the 90s you did you just need your birth certificate at the border from what i remember

but now that's that's changed and you know like think about it too like why did a lot of this should change 9 11. You know that was another thing and we're thinking we're seeing that again. And it's like the Muslim ban, that's going to happen again. Like Trump is going to try to do that shit again. So in envisioning a just world, I start with the framework.

Like you got to believe that this shit isn't real. And you got to believe that you, in some form or another, you got to do whatever it takes as an advocate to ensure that your people are going to be good.

Like the people you work for, or you work with, I'm so sorry. But in this just world, I also want to be putting immigrant communities or particularly undocumented people at a policy level because you know it's like i don't i representation when i was younger was like the end-all be-all like oh my god we have aoc like lipstick and hoops are gonna save us, like great okay cool i fell for it too yeah i drank the juice i drank the juice

too sorry i drank the juice i was an aoc fan yeah yeah and then every every latino latina was like oh my god I want to be her. But politicians are never going to save us, right? If that's not been proven by now, I don't know what is. Particularly, we need to get rid of it all. I guess, fundamentally, abolition, right? At least with immigration. Let's think about it. There's quotas, there's this, there's that.

And one thing is that when you do go against, it's somebody else deciding that person's fate. The person who decides that fate most likely will never understand the experience of that person to suffer whatever they had gone through or whatever they're applying for. We'll never understand how they grew up, their living conditions, their circumstances. We'll never be in that personal space to then be able to make a quote-unquote objective decision.

One thing I would get rid of personally in the immigration system is a concept of discretion. So like the ability, like if you see oftentimes, you know, people have full ass lives and life experiences that sometimes led to certain decisions in their life and when they were young, right? But should that bar them and plague them for the rest of their life, you know?

And discretion is that power of the officer, whoever's reviewing the case to be like, I don't think you're a good person or like, show me that you deserve this, but that shit is so subjective yeah where they become the judge they essentially judge jury and execution at that fucking point but it's like well okay who are you to decide all this shit when you will never understand what this person's like life experiences are and it's no matter what how i communicate that to you it will never be good

enough but also like police don't even know the law right don't they have like six months of training and you're just a killer let me start on that because like i have my own issues with law enforcement particularly because of the authorities. So when I have to engage with law enforcement for the purposes of immigration, I don't pull out that like.

I'm an attorney card until i have to because i'll be nice and then like i once once somebody called me one of the officers called me like a liar and i was like oh hell no like you know and especially because like i wasn't wrong i knew what had happened and he could have he she was swearing to me that i was lying to her and it's that arrogance or it's that that cop training with whatever you want to call it power it's a power trip that's what it is i'm daddy and i say what He said,

I mean, you know, in certain contexts that works, but not this one, you know, especially because like, especially because like law enforcement, right? So the concept is like you're enforcing the law, but what if the law is unjust? Then tell me that. Tell me why you would enforce it then. But, you know, and the only thing I'll give cops is that they do have to, they are put in a role where they have to do multiple things,

like interpret the law in some form or another. But like, you don't have any legal training. You don't have this. You don't like, you want, but you want to tell me what it is? Let's talk about that. And that's the other thing, right? If they have this, quote unquote, power to interpret the law in their own kind of, they're obviously not interpreting it like for the good. Right.

I mean, and that's the thing, too. It's like one of my, this is a douchey thing to say, but one of my favorite law school cases was the Miranda case where we got our Miranda rights. But you see that being used that constantly since 1964, I believe, that being like chipped away at. So there's all these exceptions cops can do now. because, you know, our conservative Supreme Court has, or throughout the years, has chipped that way slowly, that like, what the fuck does that even mean anymore?

These rights, what do these mean? And these rights apply to everybody. So, yeah. A just world, right?

Well, not to keep going, but so...

Because i know i know what i want to ask so the question is is that i'll get to my question but the reality is that there's precedent cases right like someone does a case and the judge decides this is how it is done through evidence and everything and so a case is situated like now when there's another case that is very similar almost exactly wouldn't you look back to this older case right right okay so then what the fuck is happening now when people are going back and

taking back these old which i do believe that we should go back and check check things and redo things but they're literally going back only specifically on civil rights yeah and that's just a trip like you see that and you're just like once again where the fuck am i like what is happening in the world in in the way that like it's a tactic right in order to chip away at these civil rights or the protections that have happened and stalled for a fucking reason.

We have conservative think tanks that are, have made these plans for a year. Like this shit was not, once again, this shit was not just from yesterday. This shit has been in the works for a long time. It's just that people are now just starting to realize that. So they're picking, it's called, they're cherry picking who their people are to sue, right? So we're not going to put a specific, like, once again, we talked about the affirmative action, right?

We're not going to pick a select group. We're going to pick people who are people of color, right? Because that didn't work when it, what's that white girl in Texas challenge affirmative action because she couldn't find a job.

You know, I think Abby something, I forgot her name, but that's what's happening is that these are, these are long-term plans that are now coming into fruition and that are now, we're seeing the, we're seeing the shit in real time, the consequences of like a plan that is almost being executed, like halfway executed. I think Project 2025 is, I think somebody said like halfway executed and we're only like what, six months in, seven months in?

I forget how long. You see it with the trans community. It's like first it was bathrooms. That really wasn't working. Nobody really cared. And it was a joke. Everyone's joking about them. And then now it's sports. Yeah. You know? And then it's like, we're coming after drag queens and it's not because of drag and how can we limit drag?

It's because you're exposing drag to children. we're protecting the children you know it's like right what you said the optics of it yeah i mean and also too it's like quote-unquote democracy like can somebody define what that is please now, i'll tell you what a nod is what is not america yeah yeah and then think about it it's like we think about these issues they're not in a silo right and ultimately who decides these cases they if you lose by the first level of court you just

keep appealing and then who are they appealing two, the Supreme Court. What's the Supreme Court? Six are conservative and three are liberal. So that shit's a tactic too. It's like, we're not, we know what our goal is. Our goal is not to win right now. Our goal is to get it to the Supreme Court so then we win. And that's what's happening. And it's very, very scary. We've seen that with abortion.

We've seen that with the injunctions for birthright citizenship based on the executive order of birthright citizenship. Like, it's kind of scary. It's not kind of. It's just scary. Do you think it's as a tactic that they learned from the civil rights movements? Because it was basically taking and challenging decisions based on whatever that paper is that everybody bases it on. What's it called? The Constitution? Just a little thing. I would say that, I don't know. That's a really good question.

I think when it comes to, I also have to think about what was the makeup around the time? What was the environment like? That environment was much more quote unquote liberal or left and leaning towards those times and also think about the people making the decisions, right? I think it was a much more, from my understanding, a much more liberal court than we have now because I think, Is it two or three people are Trump appointees at the Supreme Court? I forget which one it is.

I think there's two of them. Yeah. There's the Kavanaugh. And Barrett. Oh, Amy Coney Barrett. Yeah, Barrett. Those are those two. And then there was a third one that was appointed. What's her name? Oh, Kentonji Brown-Jackson. Yes. Yeah. And who appointed her? Definitely was during... Oh, Biden. No? Oh. You know what?

Actually, let me double check that. but i say that to say that like this is not this is real this is not just a fucking piece of like a court case that some fucking 21 year old is gonna read in law school you know and be like oh like let's analyze it so i could learn these are real implications that have real life effects and little by little and little by little which has grown so much are devastating communities like think about it you know when this little injunction shit an

injunction is basically like Like, telling someone or something that they can do something or they can't. They must refrain from doing it. They used that shit to really limit DACA. But now it's not okay?

Okay, like, what's the truth here? You know, B, like, I would respect more of the court and just be like, well, we fucking hate immigrants. Like, I'd rather respect you telling that shit to my face than justifying it through the law and, like, legal history. Because that's what's being used. It's like, well, if this shit didn't exist in the Founding Fathers, then why shouldn't it exist now? Like, that's the argument. and I'm like, be real with me, bitch.

Like, just tell me. Just tell me you hate immigrants. That's wild. That is wild. Well, everybody, I think that was a good one. Do you have any other last words? I don't know. I think I could yap about this forever. But I guess final points is donate to your immigration rights organizations. Esperanza. I would say also kind. These are organizations that do great work. And there are people who want to do this work, but, you know, little by little have been cut off.

And as a result, people need to work too, right? And now it's that there's less people doing the work. And now it's burning people and burning people out. So if you have the money, donate, participate in a mutual fund, participate in whatever you think you can do with whatever limitations or challenges or anything that you may be experiencing. But ultimately, I would say do something. Don't just simply repost something. Do something. There you go.

Well i'd like to say thank you again anthony immigration lawyer expert thank you thank you from all of us here at the queer lbc i'd like to thank also my our very special guest host cello azul for stopping by what's up long beach check check cello i'd like to thank myself nino dr mikey and christophe from all of us here at the queer lbc you're good enough you're smart enough And doggone it, people like you. Music.