I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the con The Unreal Housewife episode eight, a bonus episode. She's running that joint. In this episode, I talked to housewives connoisseur Kate Casey, host of the podcast Reality Life with Kate Casey, and veteran Real Housewives producer Carlos King, host of the Reality with the King podcast. We fuss and discuss all the craziness Genshaw is up to now in prison and the fact that she's not the only housewife pretending to
be wealthier than she is. And Kate and Carlos also give me their best predictions on what happens to Genshaw after prison. Enjoy. Carlos King is our first time meeting. I'm so impressed with you. You produced on Real Housewives New Jersey and Atlanta.
Yes, that is my protein shape because I need to make sure that I am fueled to do the job.
Yes, all right, What was it like producing on Real Housewives New Jersey, Real Housewives Atlanta?
You know, producing both of those shows.
Looking back on it, it was very, very very fun, but also very challenging. But when you're a new producer, you just are happy you have a gig, and for me, The Real Housewives of Atlanta was my first foray into reality television. So I'm just happy to have a job in reality TV. And then my first time on set, the producer said to me, you're going to be assigned to Nini Leaks and the rest is history in terms of our relationship and our friendship. Jersey was the same thing.
They said, You're assigned Teresa judaizing Danielle style. I'm like, okay, so, but it goes to show you that I was the person who had to handle strong, opinionated women and it allowed me to stretch my muscle in telling women's stories and to have the career that I have today.
And what were the Real Housewives like in your experience? How real were they?
Oh?
Very real? You have to think about it.
The Real Housewives of Atlanta debuted in October of two thousand and eight. At that time, the only big reality shows were The Hills and Laguna Beach, which a lot of people at the time even now would say it was soft scripting.
Is this show real?
The Real Housewives brand from the inception has always been to follow the reality and to showcase these.
Women in their real form. These women did not have any.
Sort of.
Person to idalyze to say I want to be that person. They truly were being authentic. So what you saw was women who were truly being themselves. Teresa, I fig you can see thirteen years later Teresa still Teresa, and Niemi is still MEMI very big, very bold, very loud, very opinionated. So it was the greatest example of how reality show works in the sense of you always have to cast women who are able to go through their personal story, and these women went there and.
I'll ask each of you this, what's your take on overall on jen Shaw.
Jenshaw to me personified a savvy viewer who studied every frame of Real Housewives and plotted an opportunity for them to become a housewife. I think the minute someone got word that the Real Housewives was looking at Salt Lake City or her antennas went up and she was like, I'm bringing my a game. I think she's like the perfect housewife in terms of somebody who really believes, well, where have the cameras been my whole life? Like, of course you're going to fill me. Even though they're not
a celebrity. They may not have built like an incredible business. There's not something that's spectacular in terms of their life success or career success. They still believe. Well, of course cameras would follow me, I'm such an incredible person. She kind of is that personality for me. So when you started to watch her on camera, you thought, I think she's overdoing it. And sometimes when you watch it like a movie, you think someone's overacting. She was almost overdoing
it in terms of a reality star. The first time I knew she was completely bombastic was when I realized she was living in a rental home and she had nailed shelving units into the wall. I thought, you're a monster who rents a house and nails shelving into the walls, somebody who believes they don't need to live by other people's rules.
And was that publicized that she was renting, because I thought she was trying to portray as if she owns the place.
Actually, during the first season, it was a real housewife of Dallas on their podcast that noted, well, I have a friend who owns the house that Genshaw is renting right outside of Salt Lake City. And then everybody it spread like wildfire. And once that happens in the Real Housewives ecosystem. Then the vultures come out and they will
pick apart every detail of your life. And if you are presenting yourself as someone who's wealthy and you are not, God bless you because people don't take that to that lightly.
Carlos, your take on Genshaw, I agree with everything Kate just said. I will say this, She's fascinating, She's a star. Kate's right. There's a handful of women who were born to be on television, and Genshaw was born to be on TV. Not necessarily prison in my mind at the time, but she was born to be on television. She is an attractive woman with the big personality. She has the type of bravado and arrogance that makes a great housewife. But she also had this sort of lifestyle that you
thought was real at the time. And I think Jenshaw represents the new age of reality stars. Because Jonathan, you asked me earlier, how was Nini and Teresa where they rail in two thousand and eight. Yes, But in twenty twenty beyond, the newer housewife started to become a caricature of the icons Jenshaw wanted to be the Teresa Judais of Salt Lake City, and we did not know she would go that far as to being somebody who also was going to go to a timeout or camp, as Teresa calls it.
So we didn't know to that degree she was, you.
Know, mocking her idol, but Jenshaw had to fake it in order to make it dot dot dot on a housewives show.
Yeah, that's so interesting because in a sense, you know, while she's running these telemarketing scams, she's simultaneously in a way scamming Bravo because she was not anything she appeared to be. She didn't own the house, she leased the cars, the Fendi's, the Louis Vton's. Fake fake, fake, like she was a fake real housewife pretending to be really wealthy. Not to say that she wasn't wealthy, but she certainly wasn't as wealthy as she portrayed, otherwise she would own
the homes. But our legal analyst who we interviewed throughout the podcast, the amazing Emily D. Baker, said it's by design almost that she doesn't own a home or own anything because she knows they're coming for her one day, and she knows if you own a home. You're saving a ton of money. Within the United States, they're gonna take that. The Feds are gonna take that and give
it to the victims as restitution. So we fear maybe she has all this stuff offshore in Kosovo somewhere because she doesn't own much.
I have to say, I think you're incorrect in saying that that she was swindling the network making them believe she's wealthy. That's what makes her a great star, is that they know she's not wealthy, but she's presenting herself. That makes an interesting character. If you go to a dinner party and you see someone dripping in luxury, and then you start talking to them and you find out that they work in telemarketing, you start to go, well,
that doesn't really add up. That makes someone fascinating because the longer they're on television, the more the layers get peeled back of the onion, and that makes a great story. So it's not actually true that the network is somehow scammed by all of these women. They know exactly who they are and that is why they are chosen to be on the show.
They wanted it.
Let's be very clear, Jennis Shaw is not the only housewife who is faking it today. If I had to do a I would say more than fifty percent of current housewives are leasing cars. It's the name of the game. Because I create shows. I produce shows. Right when it comes to the Real Housewives brand, it's affluent. It's a
certain lifestyle. You can't live in a middle class neighborhood right, drive a Nissan Ultima, be a school teacher who takes out the trash themselves every Thursday morning and become a housewives.
You just can't. You just can't.
You could be on Naja de Fiance, you can be married at first sight, but you cannot be a real housewife. A real housewive has a certain order of affluence that you need. And these women who are dying or attention and relevance and fame, they will become broke at bankrupt in order to have fifteen men as a bank.
I had no idea because so before this season of Queen of the Khan on Jenshaw, I've never watched an episode of Housewives only because I'm a reality producer and all the shows I work on a couple similar types of shows, and they were very heavily staged and we do multiple takes and we'd be like, hey, next time, when you shout at her, look that way. You know, Take two, take three. So I always thought as a Real Housewives was one of those, but you're telling me it's more real than that.
The beauty of housewives is that you take women who perceive themselves as very glamorous, royalty adjacent and you put them in a room together. You don't actually have to do that much because all of them have such big personalities and they're so complicated that the intersection of those
women creates the most interesting conversations. That's why Real Housewives is so beloved by reality TV viewers, because it's a window into a world that not many people know, a world of affluence, and whether it's real or it's faked, it's a window into a world that very few people get access to.
And from what the both of you were telling me, which is news to me, the majority of these women. It kind of attracts scammers to a certain well.
But it's also affluent areas bring con artists. It's a perfect stage to set for con artists because everyone seems to be wealthy. It's like it's a level playing field. And no one really asks in depth questions. It's a very surface level place. So no one's asking you, well, where did you go to school? And what was your first job? And did that company go public? And who are the directors of those companies? It's questions like do you have a boat? Do you? Are you a member
of the Bay Club. So no one actually asks anything, so very rarely will people's bullshit story be unraveled.
It's sort of like imagine Birding Madoff's wife. Do you know what I mean?
On paper, a quintessential housewife, archetype married to this affluent man, super rich, super wealthy, has a boat, has a private plane. If that person on paper came across your desk and you were casting them, she would be cast just based on what's happening on paper. But to Kate's point, you don't dig deep in terms of asking the preblic questions as if you were part of the FBI. But look, that's not our job. You know, that's not our job.
And that's the reason why you can't blame networks production companies producers, because we're not asking you to show true proofs of income of W two income text that dates back to two years in order to be on the show, because for us, it's all about do you fit the Quintin Central standard for this particular program, and if you have what it takes to showcase that on a zoom call Ben Honey, you.
Have a job.
But I also think people, it's just the way it's human, the way the humans operate. Rich people attract friends. So if you're a horrible person but you have a lot of things, people want to be your friend. Now, if you live in a shack and you have a degree, and you're interesting and you like to talk about political theory,
probably don't have many friends in an affluent area. But if you're horrible and you have like a Lamborghini and you have a house in Hawaii and you give parties where you have a to go bag, you're gonna have a lot of friends.
That is that is very true.
Well put on during the entire criminal proceeding against Jenshaw, she was, you know, proclaiming her innocence to no end. How did you both handle that? Did either of you at any point think she was actually in acent? Did you think she was guilty the whole time? What was your process?
I always thought she was guilty. What I have learned is when the FEDS do that sort of deep dive of an investigation and they finally say, okay, you're about to become arrested, it's because it took them years in order to come to that conclusion and it's hard to get out of. Like, they're not going to run the risk of saying we got it wrong here. That's what I was told. I'm not a lawyer, I don't pretend
to be one. Don't cast me at all. So that's why I thought, like, Okay, it has to be true that she's guilty of this, but I will take it a step further. The one thing that annoyed me and made me as a black person is when she tried to make it about race, and she said, you know, and I took personal offense to that, because we do know that there's this there's this situation going on between law enforcement and people of color.
It's real, it's true, it's been going on for years.
Don't take something that is actually affecting this culture and apply it to your situation and to make it seem like they got it wrong and you're being targeted because you're a woman of color. That alone bothered me because it's sort of like, just admit to it or guess what. If you want to say you're innocent, that's fine, but please don't make it about race, because there are people of color who are dealing with stuff where we are accuses of christ we did not commit.
So that part bothered me. I mean that bothered me too, And I'm glad you brought that up. It was it, you know, and we profiled it throughout the podcast several times publicly she would say it's because I'm a woman of color.
I'm being falsely prosecuted.
They were attacking me because I'm a woman of color, and it made me sick because I knew that's not true.
And you bring up a brilliant point.
One hundred percent of federal prosecutions end with a conviction, so you are correct. By the time the Feds arrest you, you are guilty. They know it, they can prove it. They're confident. So that's interesting. You thought she was guilty from the get Kate Casey, what about you?
I thought she was guilty too. I thought it was absurd the way that she would berate other people for asking any question that's usually like a red flag someone's done something. Yes, I thought that, in particular the way that she would manipulate the friendship of Heather Gay. Heather clearly is someone who grew up in a Mormon church. She felt abandoned by her church and therefore perhaps hangs on to friends longer than she should. And I felt
like Jen weaponized that. And I hate seeing relationships like that. So I don't like what she did to the people in her life who dared to ask questions.
I mean, and that is a narcissist through and through. When you ask them something, they're offended and turn it back on you.
How dare you? Yeah? Wow?
For Do you think Genshaw is sorry, actually sorry for what she did?
Or you think she's just sorry she got caught.
I'll tell you what quote recently attributed to her quote, I'm committed to doing the work necessary to make my victims whole and prove worthy of a second chance. I've learned to focus and what I can and cannot control. Do you think she's actually sorry?
No, I think she's sorry that she's missing time away from her kids. I think she's sorry about that. I think she's sorry she's missing time away from the television show. But I think someone like Jenshaw spends an enormous amount of time every day plotting what am I going to do when I'm out of here? What can I pitch
to my agent? What networks are going to be interested the way she even posted on her Instagram a story about the woman that she came to Joe with Kashara, It's all part of this ongoing story of like angst and pain, and there's a total disregard for the elderly victims that lost their fortunes, people who have had health problems as the result of stress from losing all of their money. When there's a total disregard for the people
that you've affected and it's all about you. No, I don't think she cares at all.
Can you read that? Do you have that quote up nearby that Instagram? Yeah? Read it. It's important to say.
It's a carousel, so they're actually like six slides on it. But she says journal entry number two. Kashanna, whose nickname is Special K, also surrendered with me yesterday and this is from March tenth. We've kind of stuck together the first full day as we both walked and shocked stunned and scared, trying to figure out where we go from here. I would also just like decide. Note I don't think she wrote this. Today is Saturday. There is a six am brown bag breakfast brought into the common area of
our unit. I was so tired and didn't wake up, but special K got one for me. She is kind, and there are not many kind people in this place. It had one piece of wheat bread and apple, two packets of jelly, and a packet of instant oatmeal. I ate the piece of bread. A lady was offering instant coffee in the common area, but I didn't have a mug. I saved the apple an oatmeal packet in my locker since I don't go to the commissary until next Tuesday. If I get hungry, I can at least have something
to eat. First of all, somebody on her staff that she still employs with whatever five cents she has in her bank account, went on Canva to recreate a carousel based on entries that she emailed or gave to coach, you know, at a visit. And she's like continuing this narrative like that she's a victim. I don't give a shit. If you have one piece of wheat bread, how about the people have four skittles in their bank accounts.
Because you screwed them over.
She relentless in the pursuit of making herself a victim and a martyr, and it's unbelievably whack job. But you know that's the reason she was cast because she is melodramatic, she is bombastic, she is delusional, and she is manipulative. And I think even in prison, she's still trying to manipulate anyone who's willing to.
Listen, Carlos your tank.
Is she sorry, no, listen, I don't think so.
Because the thing is this, you have to have a sense of humility when you are accused of a crime that you did commit. So when you first start off your statement saying I'm innocent, I'm being targeted racial profiling, that doesn't sound like a woman who's STARp at what she did, knowing she did it.
Then when she.
Played guilty, she apologized to the victims and said I knew what I was doing. I was blah blah blah blah blah. If she would have started off that statement when she first got accused of it, then I would have believed like, Okay, you feel sorry for what you did, but I think you have to know the type of personality she is, and listen, I'm not judging.
Her, because that's not my job.
I take her at face value in the sense of who I see on the show and who I see interviews, and whose behavior I witness, and I'm like, I don't think there's anything about her based on what I've seen that reeks of a woman who's sorry for anything she's done outside of the crime. I think the way she behaves is because she believes that she is the best thing that happened to Salt Lake City, and she just has that arrogant personality.
I remember I was interviewing one of the housewives and the housewife kept saying, I'm so sorry I keep getting a FaceTime from Jenshaw. I said, well, like, tell her you're in an interview, and I was witnessed to how captivated they all are to her. I don't know, Maybe I should text her back like you're in the middle of an interview, are you kidding me? Later, I had a conversation with that same housewife and I said, how can you be supportive of someone that does this? And
has obviously lied. And their response was, but she's so fun.
I mean that hits it on the head. The power and the magic of every con artists. They're charismatic, they suck you in, they get you like them, they get you to love them, and that's the coercional control they exert. Even in the face of accusations and evidence.
People support her. Still she's in jail and people support her.
But I find so fascinating. I think you and I had this conversation Kate how Erica Jane, for example, who wasn't directly accused of stealing from the orphans and doing all the things that her husband Tom Giraldi was allegedly accused of. Right, she had no direct line into handling those alleged accusations. Right, she was guilty by proxy by being this man's wife who benefited from it by courtesy of private jets and Glam Squad and fifty thousand dollars Glam Squad Davies.
But people said she's.
Not likable, and they railroaded her and read her for film. When it came to Jenshaw, who actually did the crime, like actually physically did it, people worshiped her and I thought that was very strange because on one hand, you have Erica Jane, who did not have her hands in it, so to speak, but Jenshaw did. But because Erica Jane is so stoic, who who really comes across like I am who I am, people dismissed her.
But for Genshaw, because.
She's witty and she's fine and she's whims the call, it's like they gave her a pass. And I thought that was fascinating in terms of how the audience judges people based on their personality trade.
I also think there's a micro judgment too, because one is from Beverly Hills, where it's so out of people's realm of understanding their wealth, versus Salt Lake City, which I think in the there's this mindset that it's a more down to earth place like Jenshaw's wealth seems far more relatable to someone like Erica Jane. So that's a
part of it too. Another nuance to it, it's not relatable for most people to consider the highest paid plaintiff attorney who had multi million dollar settlements and his pop star adjacent wife dripping in Cardier versus jen Shaw, who presented herself as almost like a stay at home mom and at a side business and a football coach husband. So of course the audience is going to feel more connected to Jen and her husband. That's far more relatable and more Americana than the plaintive attorney.
Very true.
I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, so yeah, I'll ask again, what's Jen Shaw up to in federal prison?
She's running that joints like this story of like there was one weak piece of bread in the bag. I don't believe that for one minute. I think she is running some scam there where people are giving her money. She's probably got a bunch of snacks in the pod. I think she she did some statement where she said she's other women ESL. I was like, wait what. I just can't imagine her sitting and taking the time to listen to someone's personal story and to help them read.
I think she's just running the whole place. She's running plays left and right.
What do you think, Carlos, I'm sorry, I think Katy's hilarious. I was actually envisioning what you were saying as you were talking about it. I actually listen. I agree with you in the sense I think she's running the joy. I think she's Big mo from the movie Chicago, Queen my Teeth's character.
I think I think she is like, I'm Big Mama, and what I say goes yes. I think she's pipping out the women.
I think she definitely has so much money in her books courtesy of other people's family members donations. I think jen Shaw, listen the type of personality trait she has, she doesn't come across as a woman who is going to drown her sorrows. I think she's going to make the best out of her situation the best way she knows how, and that's by running the joint. I think she's a ruler. I think she has found her team. I think she has found in the worst of the
strip club. Don't ask me how I know this, but I think she's found her her bottom bitch.
That's the woman, right Kate.
She's found her bottom bitch, which is the woman who's like her right hand person. I think she's, like Kate said, I think she is the star of that prison.
The minute she leaves, she's on the phone with her agent on standby and she's like, I've got an idea for a script. I have an idea for this, We're going to do merch. She is plotting the entire time she's in there. Now, she was sentenced and she's to serve six and a half. Here's I'm sure that will be reduced. I'm gonna say she walks out after four.
From what I've read Jenshaw, she's keeping a diary and selling subscriptions for her diary in prison. She's creating a real Housewives of Brian prison play with other inmates.
She claims to be tutoring them.
She recently completed an anger management course and reportedly said she wished she had this when she did The Housewives.
Let's put it this way, I would not be surprised if she made an appearance on Love After Lockup, Like someone she's in a pod with is dating somebody from Idaho, and she weasels her way into the plot line, and we see her next season on Love After Lockup my friend Jen here and they're like, She's like, everyone's amazing. I mean, I wouldn't put a papist. If Josh Mangowitz and Keith Morrison show up too the Brian jail to interview someone, she will figure out a way be in it.
It'll be an interview with somebody who murdered their husband, and she'll somehow find her way an opportunity to also be interviewed.
I'm sure.
Just a few days ago, it appears she posted on threads that's it. Yeah, and the post was I hope everyone's shaw amazing. I mean clearly that was one of her pr people, because I don't think you can post from threads in prison. What's the strategy there, like to keep in the public consciousness and you can.
To keep people talking. She's making calls, she's emailing, she takes every opportunity. She's like, keep my name in people's mouths. But you know what, that's Real Housewives strategy one on one. Listen, you can take the girl off of Real Housewives, but the girl never leaves Real Housewives.
No, when Jenshaw gets out of prison in five or six years, do you think Bravo will have her back. I'll preface this with a quote from Andy Cohen, who was very supportive of Jen before she pled guilty, and then was shocked when Jen pled guilty, and he said, I'm upset, and I'm especially upset for her victims.
I'm upset that she was accused.
If you remember sitting there in the reunion show, she was so dogmatic about it, I felt, Okay.
Let this woman have her day in court.
I'm extremely upset about what she said, because, frankly, you get to know someone, you get to like them, you get to have a personal relationship, and you work with someone and you want to cheer them on, and you hate to think that they're capable of this behavior.
Andy Cullen is pissed that she's guilty.
I think he's hot and pissed for a hot minute because he thought that they were going to do an interview and then she pulled out which anybody who does the show can understand. In my opinion, she serves her time. It says that she has had a forfeit six point five million dollars, thirty luxury items, seventy eight counterfeit items. If she serves time and she does all those things, who cares if she goes back. She served her.
Time, and you can it for her.
I mean, if she's interesting enough. I mean I would assume that's a storyline you want to chase, Like, how do Heather and Meredith cope when she returns? What is her life like? Does she still have relationships with her kids? What about her family members, because they certainly supported her too, and I think they got swindled. I mean, I think, of course they're going to follow that storyline. Will people
embrace her the same way? I don't know. Unfortunately, in the world we live in, if you're funny and you look like you have Carrie a nice bag, they might No.
I do agree, I think Listen, I do think she'll be asked back.
I think I think in.
Terms of a pr move, they may say, come back as a friend and earn your housewife title. I want thousand percent thinks she'll come back. You want to follow the story. I'm being very honest. I'm going to watch to see how she is. Am I going to watch the entire season? I don't know, But am I curious enough to see who she's become after present apps of
freaking Lately? I'm going to watch to see that. And the difference between her and Teresa is at the end of the day, I think almost every woman, especially almost every housewife, understood that. Okay, I can understand how Teresa were signing her name on papers that she wasn't aware what she was signing. As a housewife and a woman's husband, you do trust her husband, and I think there was empathy for Teresa, because again it wasn't No one believes
Teresa knew what was going on. I think a lot of people understand that Teresa was bamboozled by her husband, and like most women, not all, but most, if the husband puts the papers in front of you, hey, babe, there's our income tax. Sign your name here, they're gonna do it without questions asked. But that's why Teresa was able to come back and the show became bigger. They put the show on pause for Teresa. I think Jenshaw would have to earn her housewife title. But I do
agree with Kay. I think you haven't seen the end of Jenshaw. If so, Lake City last the next four years.
But if it doesn't come back, there'll be some other show. She will be on reality television shows for the rest of her life. If it's marriage boot Camp, if it's the Food Network SmackDown how to make a cast role, she will find a way.
I assure you.
That with one wheat bread, Kay, how to make a casts all with one wheak bread, Yes, that will.
Be the SmackDown on the Food Network what to do with one piece of wheatbread, an apple, and an instant oatmeal pack, and it will become full circle.
She'll get that on T shirts.
That's going to be the shirt. She leaves the jail in one piece of wheat bread and says that what's the merch line right there?
Yep, sounds like something she'd do for sure, and FYI already Jenshaw's six and a half year federal prison sentence has been reduced by an entire year. She's now scheduled to be released August thirtieth, twenty twenty eight. Thank you for listening to this season The Queen of the Con. If you're new to the podcast, we have three previous seasons about three distinctly different con queens you can venge.
Season one, The Irish Heriss, chronicles how con artist Mayor Smith tricked her way into my life and scammed me out of close to one hundred thousand dollars using a series of unbelievable confidence tricks that literally brought me to my knees. In season two, The OC Savior, we meet con artist Lizzie Mulder, who impersonates a cast of made up characters using voice changing apps on her phone to scam her close circle of friends and clients out of
more than a million dollars. And season three, The Rich Girl is all about con artist Danielle Miller. Part time social media influencer, full time scammer. Danielle figures out a way to basically impersonate anyone in the flesh, walk into their bank and withdraw all their money, no questions asked. I sincerely believe the more you know about how con artists operate, the less likely you are to become a victim. So pay attention and stay.
Safe out there.
If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, click that share button and send it to your friends and family. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Con. The Unreal Housewife is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for
Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Jonathan Walton, Segment producer Gregory Harvey, Senior Associate producer Jill Peshesnik, Coordinator Melena Krolysky, edited by Justin Longerbean audio engineer Justin Longerbean studio engineer Maximo Abraham.
Legal counsel sold for A y R Media.
Johnny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard