Episode 9: Only Hope

School of Humans.

This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains material that may be disturbing.

Listener discretion advised.

In June of twenty sixteen, while Mirinda and her two children were locked up in custody in krueger'stor the South African Police Service hastened its investigation. They had LaRue and Marcel on solid charges, including photographic evidence that showed them taking money out of accounts belonging to two of the murder victims, Anthony Schofield and Hanley Lattigan. Initially, Marinda coached them to keep feeding the cops the story that they

Le Rustain made a confession that he's the only person that killed the Appointment murders.

LaRue and Marcel's statements were taken on June twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, two days after the arrest. Detective Ben Boysen was briefed on this interview and read LaRue's statement. The seasoned investigator wasn't buying his story for a second.

With him being about sixty five sciety kilograms, it's impossible that they would have been able to kill The two men picked him up, loaded him in a vehicle, drove away with that vehicle is not strong enough to do that. It's totally not possible.

Both Marcel and LaRue remained in custody, but the police needed more serious charges to keep Mirinda behind bars when there was no new evidence to report. After a few days in jail, Marinda had her day in court. The case involving the pot plant was delayed, making way for the larger claims against her like insurance fraud and murder. When she got out, Marinda immediately filed her third lawsuit

I took on one off my rooms in my house and I made that to wardroom and I start working day at night. I neverted it. You know, sometimes my wife will wake up two o'clock in the morning and I'm not in baten, so she comes in there and take me on my ear and take me back to bath and said, listen, need to go and freaking sleep.

It didn't take long for Ben and Manny Victor's task team to connect the dots between LaRue, Marcel, Marinda, and Cecilia and recognized the mayhem that EPD had been adjacent to for the past four years. Digging a little deeper, they discovered the open claim with Discovery Life. Cecilia was waiting to collect Zach Valentine's insurance payout.

And at that state, Zach Valentine was still missing because I told he was. They burned out in Pietre Steit.

Which then led them to look into Jared Jackson's murder. The details surrounding his death also appeared immediately suspicious in Ben's eyes.

His arms was full of cutting marks, he only had socks on, no shoes. It cannot be suicide. Something happened before this.

Soon enough, there was a warrant out for Zach's arrest, and on June twenty sixth, just one day after LaRue's confession, the task team received in a non tip. Someone matching Zach Valentine's description had been spotted from School of Humans and iHeart podcasts This is Queen Havoc and her murder Cult I'm Your Host Kurt Kubachek episode nine, Only Hope. For the six months following Jared Jackson's murder, Zach Valentine had been in hiding when hotels got too expensive, especially

Marx Zak has been lying low at kia Kaya, a Christian ministry.

Since his arrival. Zach had been using an alias Michael de Villers. When law enforcement arrived at the ministry, they didn't find Zach right away, but they found his.

Roommate, and at the time of his erased, he was busy camping at Kiakaya's camping grounds. It was on a farm near Machalisberg.

Upon viewing a photo of the suspect, the roommate insisted that the man they were looking for was named Michael de Villers and that he was currently away camping. Two officers from Manny's war room headed to the location. Detective Herd Krueger was one of them.

On the place where he was rased, he first gave up a name that not.

He's the only nine the task team was prepared.

He had just a lot of tattoos on his back. Now I had a photo of that and asked him to turn around. They checked the tattoos and then the game was over.

They managed to id him as Zach Valentine. That's also when he then admitted that he was indeed Zach Valentine.

He was arrested on charges of fraud for faking his own death. Then, in another suspicious twist, when Ben went searching for information on the suspects, the case files from the first four murders had mysteriously gone missing.

The twenty twelve murdered casis that I eventually started investigation, all those dockets is missing. Built today it's missing. Nobody knows where it is. All the evidence that was taken into that twenty twelve investigations, everything's gone. So I had to restore that in twenty sixteen.

So, after all that had happened in twenty twelve, Ben had only three case files one on the Jared Jackson murder, another on Joan and Peter Meyer being robbed and killed in their home, and after Zac's arrest, a clear attempt at an insurance scam.

So I opened a throat case against Zach for trying to defraud Discovery, and then I started in mistigations all on those three docades.

This fraud case was Ben's only real inroad, the only thing unquestionably linking all the perpetrators Zach, Cecilia, and Mirinda and eventually LaRue and Marcel too.

Maranda Stein went to Pietre Stein saying that she's the sister of Zack Valentine, and she gave a false address, false information for the people at the mortuary, and Cecilia Stein, who was the sole beneficiary of that Discovery thing, and knowingly that Zach is now alive, they all were cursed to commit this fraud.

On July twenty ninth, twenty sixteen, Cecilia Stein and Mirenda Stein were arrested for insurance fraud linked to the killing of Jared Jackson.

So I luckily arrested them when I opened the fraud case, so nobody were on the street anymore except for John Barnard.

Cecilia Stein was finally behind bars, and so was Mirinda. This time, as it turned out, for good. Ben wanted to interview them right away.

They thought when I arrested them, I arrested him for the murders, but I never arrested him for the mergers. And then as soon as I started reading why I arrested them, you know, they changed. I couldn't believe that I now arrested in them for fraud because I didn't approve at that stage about the murders.

They were being held in the precincts in Kruger's door. He brought Christelle with him, as he often did.

On weekends and after hours when I arrested or I interview women, I always take my wife with because he's a police officer, and there's always stories when you interview women alone, your sexual harassment, or you know, you put praiser on him to say stuff.

Cristelle and Ben very quickly got a taste of Cecilia's manipulation tactics. First, she went for pity.

Cecilia Steins was a freaking clown. She came in with a bottle oxygen bottle, and she sat down and was a ute oxygen bottle, and as soon as I told her why I'm resting her, she suddenly start breathing difficult and I look at the bottle and I saw that the pipe from the mass to the bottle was not even connected.

Then she went for ridicule. Ben and Cristelle got a front row seat to the way Cecilia gnashed her teeth when she felt vulnerable. At one point, Ben was taking a note trying to spell the word conspiracy, and he casually asked his wife for help.

She said, how do you spell conspiracy? And she started laughing in my face and said, you're a fucking idiot. You can't even spell conspiracy, but you want to send me to jail. And I just told her, you know the person who laughed last laugh the loudest.

Then they pressed Cecilia about Zach and his relationship to his wife, Michaela. They had learned about Zach and Cecilia's intimate relationship.

Being tested her by saying that you found evidence that Zack and Michaela had intercourse the night she was killed or the night before she was killed, and Cecilia went like, it's fucking impossible. From this silly clown what she turned into a vicious person. She physically transformed in front of us from this you know, can't breathe and poor person. She said, it's fucking impossible. It won't happen.

It sound.

And then said, but why wouldn't they happened? They were happily married, and she said, and then she came forward to him and she says, I'm telling you it wouldn't have happened.

Christelle chimed in, pushing Cecilia further.

On this, and I said to her, but how would you have insight into what's happening in this marriage? And she turned to me again and she said, I'm telling you it fucking didn't happen. And then all of a sudden, someone else walked in. She went like this.

Christelle shook her shoulders as she spoke, like a duck shaking water off its back.

She you know, she like this, and next question, please, so we saw that.

I saw it changed the transformation.

Meanwhile, Zach was desperately trying to get out of jail. All three of them were. Actually they had the right to apply for bail since their only charge was odd, which is not a capital offense. But Ben kept fighting to keep them off the streets.

And luckily I thought all of their bio application Zach brought about eight of them.

Bail would mean Zach could walk free. Once released, he'd be a likely flight risk and the police might never see him again. They gotten lucky to find him the first time. Now, prosecutors were considering letting Zach walk.

But because he was the clared date, it's impossible to give him battle because I'm going to blacklist him on the airports and stuff like that. So that was a fight, you know, between me and the prosecutor of the regional court, trying to keep him in jail.

During this fight, this back and forth with the state, fate finally played a hand in Ben's favor. Ben and Cristelle are known as trusted cops in the community and got a number of tips from citizens of Kruger's were anxious to end the murders. One in particular, though, led to a windfall.

So one of the people that found my wife's said, I must go to Arundos classroom to see what's happening in a classroom.

On August ninth, twenty sixteen, Ben Christelle and a fellow officer from the Krugery store. Police headed over to the high school where Mirinda taught English. Turns out we were there interviewing Ben exactly five years to the day that this happened.

I actually arranged it for today. That's Women's Day in South Africa today, exactly today, because there will be no children and at school.

The headmaster was resistant at first, explaining that Mirinda was one of the best teachers at the school. The kids all loved her. Detective Ben boys and casually threatened the headmaster that if he didn't comply, Ben could return with a proper search warrant on a school day and conduct his search in front of all the kids. The principal didn't have to think long. He led them down the

I said, to the old place, but I didn't know what to look for. I look for laptops and I look for papers, I look for photos. I look for anything that I can link to what they were doing.

Ben almost gave up. The headmaster was skeptical of the cops, and Ben certainly didn't want to waste anyone's time.

I couldn't find anything, and eventual I went to sit down with the eight most of them, I said, it's Souri. It seems to meet. It's false information.

But something was still nagging at Ben, so before he left, he decided to take one last look around.

We all stood up and on the way out told another lady from Cruiser Detective Unit.

It was with me.

I just want to go through all the rooms again. And I went into the rooms and I checked and I checked, and eventually I went to the left front room. There was a lot of stuff laying around there, but there was these two stoves standing in the middle of the premises, and something just told me go and open the ovens.

Merenda's room was a repurposed home economics classroom.

And as soon as I opened the ovens, I found all this ammunition and machine to reload. Then they ate master also turned and was on outside there because it was not on the police side from the beginning.

He continued his search and discovered a bullet reloading kit, shotgun shells, nine millimeter bullets and then red tipped rubber bullets only used by specially trained police officers, and sold what was Marnda doing with guns and AMMO, some of which was from the heyday of South Africa's violent apartheid passed and in a high school, no less, How did a school teacher wind up with military grade weaponry? When he was done, he lined up all the AMMO on

Packed it out and we took photos and stuff, And eventually I think it was his wife. She's working in the offices day. She came to me and she said, did I know that Maranda changed their will? I knew nothing about it.

Mirinda had just recently changed her will. Things had unfolded so fast since Marinda's arrest, Plus the twenty twelve case files were all missing, so Ben was doing his best to catch up.

Osta will you give me the will? Otherwise I must make a two or five application and force them to give me the will through the right channels. And luckily you said them, and I'll give you the will.

Ben took a statement from the headmaster and his wife confirming that they were handing over this document of their own free will. As they signed the paperwork, Ben read over the will.

While reading this will, I knew of good now something to approach LaRue, because in that will she just owned the children and she gave everything that is part of her life to Cecilia Stein.

But before he had a chance to meet with LaRue, the task team made yet another breakthrough. They found the sort of hard evidence that would make prosecutors finally believe everything Ben had already suspected.

Luckily, in the twenty fifteen sixteen murders, John Barnard took his cell phone to all the crime scenes.

Detectives Krueger and Violent had been busy tracing the suspects and discovered that pings from John Barnard's cell phone matched the murder map to a t This was the smoking gun the cops needed. On August eighteenth, twenty sixteen, John Barnard was taken into custody in connection with the insurance fraud and his involvement in the murder of Glenn McGregor. Here's Commander Hert Krueger.

We erased John Barnard at his work, the Mayers Printing Company, and while we were driving back like coldn SEMs, we stopped and John just started confacing.

Barnard confessed to being part of all of the appointment Murners.

I didn't got an officer to take his confession. It was his first confession that he might after debt the invasity guiding officer Captain Boisin's didn't just that he repeat the dead confession in front of him magistrate, just to give it more power. And John was the first one that was convicted and the first one who went to prison.

Finally, on August nineteenth, the day after John Barnard's confession, Ben sat down with LaRue. He baited LaRue telling him that his mother, Marinda's claim against the police wasn't going to pay out. There was no way she'd be able to save him from a life behind bars. He let that sink in. Then he told LaRue that Barnard had made a full confession at his arraignment hearing, implicating everyone. It was a smart move. Ben told LaRue the confession

For a young boy like that picking up a date person and llowed him into a vehicle, It's slutally not possible.

Not only did Ben immediately recognize the improbability of this claim, but he could see through Laru, see the boy in him, a boy who was in way over his head.

While I was speaking to him in prison. I've got the scenes that he is predicting the people around him.

At first, Larux was agitated, tense, pacing like a cage tiger. Detective Ben Boyce and his a father. He thought of his own son and how he could reach him when he was combative. Here's Gristelle recalling his approach. She refers to LaRue by his nickname. Lex.

Paine was friendly to next time, and he was kind to Lex, and he was talking, you know, to Lex with respect, and that turned ultimately turned Lex eventually to say, but listen, yeah, you are giving me more kindness and love than I ever experienced from my mother.

Ben knew that if he was calm with the wayward son and asked him why he'd done what he'd done, rather than scream at him, he was more likely to hear the truth from LaRue. He was right.

I talked to him a lot, and eventually I took too well out and I put it in front of him, but the words facing my way, and I asked him who's antwriting? And he said it's my mother, because she's got a very very nice antwriting neat and I turned the paper around and I said, listen, read how much your mother loved you.

Harsh right, But Ben's instincts were guiding him. LaRue was apt to turn against his mother. Throughout his first couple of months in police custody, LaRue had been worried about his sister Marcel, who also in custody. He wrote her a series of letters pleading with her to come clean, not to take the rap for their mother, Cecilia or any of the others. When Cecilia and Marinda got word that one of their puppets was turning on them, they

There was one way she apparently took him medication for his stomach, and it was supposedly two step. So you know that is a poison that stab one. You take it in step till you die. Can you imagine living in fear that your own mother wants to kill it.

It appears that even in jail, LaRue wasn't safe from Cecilia's wrath. In Mirenda's will, she attested, I'm Marinda stein laradim.

Same mind and wished to recorde my last wishes as follows every sent and property that I and will become available at my death. I bequeathed to Cecilia stein nie seword Kniebrandt to use as she sees fit, whether my biological children are still in jail or not, whether she wants to spend it on them or not. It toutally becomes us.

As soon as LaRue heard about the change in the will, he broke down. Ben's compassionate approach had softened the edges, eroded, the walls around the roots broken heart.

And then at tisk started coming out here and his lip stopped going like this, and he stopped crying and then he said, FuG them. Now I'm going to talk. And then he told me a lot of stuff where the guns was hiding and stuff like that, and he told me about it. Twenty twelve meders.

After the cathartic confession, Ben did his due diligence and got LaRue to repeat it in front of a magistrate. Back from the hearing to the jail, Larux is exhausted. He fell into this sort of paralyzing exhaustion that is specific to the fallout from a world crumbling realization. Once Laru stopped seeing the world through the lies, Secilia and his mother raised him to believe. Laru was free to face the truth of what his entire life had been and the grim future ahead. The silence hung heavy on

Ben ask him, is there anything you need? And he says, yes, Uncle, I'm hungry. And Ben asked him what would you like to eat? And Lex was very confused because he says that they could never decide what they wanted to eat. They always had to eat what Cecilia was prescribing because that was part of her power. And then he said, can I please have a pizza and a coke?

LaRue became emotional, recognizing something that had been missing from his life, human kindness.

When we got hold of Marenda's diary, she writes in her diary as if she's speaking to the person in the first person. And she wrote in her diary with regard to Lex and Afrikaans, but I'll translate it into English. She said, but you sold your soul for a pizza and a coke.

This was the beginning of Christelle and Ben kind of taking care of the Rue. They would continue to provide him with emotional support throughout the trial, and over time they became bonded to him. L Arux even wrote letters to Ben while he was in prison. He had no one else.

What she doesn't realize is that if you mean so little to your children that they are willing to sell you out for a pizzana coke. And this is no indication of lex but it's indication of how poor mother she was to the children, and that is what she caused. Not anyone else.

Armed with LaRue's confession. Boison and hert Krueger go to Cecilia's apartment. Upon entry, they find blood on the carpet.

I saw the stains on the carpet, and then I got the police to come out and check the stains for me for blood, and then we fell into Goldfield's blood and LaRue's blood inside the premises. So the previous policemen that were about ten times in that flat then trains for that to be done.

Ben and his team also confiscate a whole lot of illegal firearms and ammunition stashed in the walls at seventeen Cassano Flats. LaRue had been the one to create these hidden panels.

And there was a little gap between the cupboards and the walk and I kind of broke one of the wooden panels, so the length of the closet then it made like a little I thought chimney almost, and we're like push it back and put a panel back there, so it looked like any other coverages, you know, going up to the ceiling.

Cecilia's husband, Sergeant Drese Stein, an officer with the South African Police Service, was also arrested after the arsenal was found hidden in the walls of his home. All the firearms were illegal. He was only held for a few days and then released. The case against EPD would finally go to trial in twenty seventeen, and it would take two years to connect them to all the murders and

That is the easy target, you know, because I thought he had a little hard left.

Maritzka also had a cousin who was locked up with LaRue, giving her a whiff of street cred. So he agreed to meet with her one on one.

A godday. Waited. I was scared, and then he actually agreed to see me. And I think it's because he knew my name because of my cousin. And I remember the first words that he said to me was dhxie. So it's something like good day is very pulotte. So I saw to myself, do you murderers have manners?

You know?

I was really like, what's this guy saying nice?

You know?

Mariska and LaRue had an instant connection.

You liked metal music.

He was into piercings, into tattoos. So when you know, when I got down you, I only had a short time to win him over. So now I said to him, I want to tell your story, but I don't want to tell your story like, yes, I committed the murders. I said, I want to I want to hear your story, like I want you to tell me what you want to say. And that day he asked me my number and I gave it to him.

In the months leading up to his sentencing, she and LaRue formed a tight bond that evolved in the Mariska becoming an advocate for him and Marcel.

I mean, is there not one person that can see that this was child abuse? She conditioned them to be monsters.

On December fourteenth, twenty sixteenth, John Barnard took his plead in exchange for testifying against EPD. His sentence was reduced from life to twenty years in prison. Charging the rest of EPD was a challenge. Now keep in mind that in South Africa it's a judge's courtroom. The jury system was abolished during apartheid, so the fate of each EPD member lay solely in the judge's hands.

You might shure you bring the truth to the court in a Watertodd Vihko where you're the jud character of effect.

That's Dion Venvick. He's worked in the State's Attorney's office for thirty years, twenty of which were in the High Court, which is like the federal district courts in the US. He is currently a senior State Advocate. At just under six feet tall, Dion Vnvick is an authoritative presence and has been doing this so long. He's extremely well versed in the intricacies of South African law and not to be confused with Captain johann and Vick, who you've heard from in earlier episodes.

On the effects of the case that you guys are investigating. Many crimes were perpetrated by various of her followers, but the challenge is to prosecute them all, for each and every one of them, to keep them liable, criminally liable for all the offenses would be impossible without detulov racketeering.

Ben had a background in organized crime, so he developed a strategy to approach this rare, unprecedented prosecution. Then, Vic says, according to the Prevention of Organized Crime Act or POKER, Ben would have to prove that the crimes involved racketeering.

Section one of our Poker Acts creates that too. You turned on proving an enterprise, which was easy to do.

In this case. Alectis Perdaeus's enterprise was blatant insurance fraud, thinking zach death to cash in on his policy.

Secondly, how you your factual association, It all depends on what level. Obviously, the main person will be the manager. You have sufficient evidence to prove.

That Cecilia being the sole beneficiary of the attempted fraud made her the manager or ringleader in this act of organized crime.

And the person's associating in activities to further the objectives of the enterprise, and that was the key.

This is how Mirinda and her children were linked in complicity. The kids were working to carry out Cecilia's enterprise. For example, LaRue had made incessant calls to check on the claim for Cecilia, then he backed her up in the insurance inquiry video, and Marcel was an active participant in the robberies. The ATM withdrawals from this angle. They were all enmeshed involved in an ongoing conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt. Still, this approach was unheard of at the time.

Normally you would not deploy racketeating on a murdic case likeness, but that was the only way to bring them all to book, and there's nothing boarding us or boring the prosecution team in law to apply that. So that's the first in South Africa as far as I know.

Since it had never been used in a murder case before. It took a while to convince the judge that pocket charters held water for the prosecution, but finally in February the judge approved. Senior State Advocate Dion van Vick also illuminated for US based on his years in the field, that organized crime at this level usually leads to murder.

Keeping in mind that it doesn't matter in what sphere of organized crime you move. If your financial your criminal benefit is big enough, people will die.

Just to be clear, Dion van Vick didn't work on this case, but we spoke to him to get some clarity on the racketeering stuff from an actual state official. While Ben developed this racketeering angle, he also gathered witnesses.

And fifty witnesses actually, and I served to aenit in fifty two supunas three times, but we only used at the end of the day about seventy witnesses to testify.

Many of the witnesses were reduced to tears. They were all emotionally broken and terrified of speaking out against Cecilia. As you've heard, Luke asked us to alter his voice and use an alias because he's still convinced that he's a target for testifying against Cecilia. Prison bars were no match for her. Not only did she speak of astral projection, but no one would have been surprised if she put a hit out on any of the witnesses or their families.

Family since her first year in Joel, one of the peoples she was incarcerated with was released and she told us. She made a statement, she's coming from Kruystol, and she told us that Cecilia is planning on killing our youngest daughter. She took out a contract to kill our youngest daughter for revenge on what Ben has done. And then our younger his daughter had to move out of town and she doesn't stay with us anymore.

The court dates kept getting postponed for myriad reasons, a slow moving justice system being one, but also because the twenty twelve case files were missing. LaRue's confession was not enough. Ben had to completely recreate reports on crimes that happened four years earlier, which took time.

But remember there was no dockets, there was no witness statements, there was nothing. So even if he tells me and he confession all this stuff, I still need to go out and get evidence to prove what he said is the truth.

And that was very difficult, and Ben's health had not improved. In fact, it was buckling under the pressure.

Every time the court postponed. I had to serve all that tupunas again by myself. I became very very ill.

Christelle finally forced him to go to the doc.

I didn't want to go to the doctor because I know they're going to book me off and I can't be booked off because I still need to get information and stuff. And one morning I woke up and I was sitting on bed and I didn't have a voice, and she said, you're going to hospital to the doctor today. And I was so weak when I get to the hospital that I actually couldn't walk.

Turns out he had pneumonia, but even during treatment, Ben kept working.

So they brought the wheelchair to take me into the hospital. And as I because the hospital was its opposite Cecilia Stein's flats.

There was suspicion that Cecilia had a friend working in the hospital pharmacy who would secure drugs for Cecilia and Electus per Dais.

I saw the chemist and I said, I still need to I want to tell I still need a statement. Yes, And my wife freaked out that she said, no, since you warned everybody in but all that they must not talk about the case with me, I must relax. And then eventually the doctor came to me and he said, you've got overgrown art.

An overgrown heart. After a few days of rest, Ben was released.

I wasn't supposed to go to work, but when I get home, I took the sick note, I tear it up and I started working the next day again. My wife was very very cross with me, But you know, I knew that if I'm not going to see this cases through, that it's not going to work out nicely. So I forced myself to do work.

About a year into the trial, Janna Marx was working as a court reporter.

I was working in court, so I was attending court cases and I was literally sitting in court every day. It would be different cases because cisis Skates postponed. I was a digital journalist. It becomes difficult to see a trial evolving from start to end. I mean, it's not always possible because of the speed of the journalism that we practice.

The case against EPD was moved to the High Court in May of twenty eighteen, and Yana was assigned to it.

So I think from the very beginning this really grab people's attention, just because of the religion and also the normalization of what happened there. I mean, the regular people being part of a group are goodness. Now regular people are killing other regular people.

We are so grateful for all the insight and expertise that Yana lent to this project for over a year, Nearly every time these murderers took the stand, Yana was there watching. She'll walk us through the trial. In the next episode, we'll get her take on Cecilia, Zach and the kids as they try to make a case for themselves Merinda too well sort of. Yanna also speaks to Cecilia's delusional style, which was on full display in the courtroom.

Cecilia is very She's very lively, and she tells jokes, and that happens in court.

Cecilia's charming personality is part of what makes her so terrifying. Even today, her shadow is buried deep. I know this because I met her well.

I like joking and I like, you know, having fun. Laughing life is serious and and you can't be serious all the time. It'll just make you the priest if you certain think about life.

On the next episode of Queen Havoc, LaRue.

Right when when he was found guilty and in front of his mother, he said, thank you Captain for sending this beach the.

Jail on understand she lied Latant. I killed Reginald and I enjoyed every minute of it and went into great gory detail about how she did it and saying it had nothing to do with Cecilia.

But he still says there in things like what if Cecilia I can sneak into my cell and come and hurt me.

You know, Massell was a bit different. I think the whole country's sympathy lay with Mussel.

And everyone believed her.

Everyone believed in.

What she was saying.

So Queen Havoc in Her Murder Cult is a production of Schooly Humans and iHeart Podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and created by me Kurt Kupachak, produced and written by Jennifer ZC Kenny, Julia Chriskau, and Kirk Kupachick. Lead producer is Julia Chriskau. Story editor is Saren Burnett, Senior producer is Amelia Brock. Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell, editing, sound design and scoring by