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Well, hello, and welcome back to Quality Matters podcast. I'm Kyle Chambers. We got Kayla Badcock here. And today, we're gonna be talking about the management review. So this is something that's kinda come up working with a lot of our customers recently is what do we put in the management review? How much do we put out in case? It's just been a lot of questions recently about, management review, so kinda figured it'd be a good one to tackle today.
So, Caleb, you were saying before we got started that this is something you personally haven't had too much, experience with, so you'd probably be good for a lot of questions. Heck, yeah. Yeah. Yep. This is, you know, I've I've been around them, been involved with them, but, you know, everybody may not know I'm not an auditor. So, you know and I've, so yeah. This this will be a learning experience for me too. Okay. Well, cool. Cool. Cool. So just chime in with kinda whatever you got
is we talked about it, I guess. So management review, I tell folks a lot of times this is almost the kinda capstone event of the year. Now when I say that, let me kinda disclaimer here. I have seen where the management review in the internal audit are done in little bite sized pieces all throughout the year. And so there's never a single internal audit. There's never a single management review. It's all this continual iterative process can work well. I've seen it. But it's really,
really hard to keep up with. And you never really have, I don't know, I guess, kind of that that sense of finality that, like, that part is done. We can now move on. Yeah. I I I think I tend to agree with you there about, like, just do it. Have it all be on the same thing. You know? Everybody's in the room. Yeah. Now one thing I have seen some customers do is some of the details that they address in the management review. We've got one
that they've done this really well. I, I wish I could say their name and give them credit because it's really, really pretty awesome what they've done. Hell, maybe I need to maybe I need to call him up and see if he wants to hop on the podcast and talk about it. Anyways, they've got a really cool management review that they've set up. I wish I could take credit for it. They've just done a really great job.
And in their monthly management meetings, they've got certain aspects of those same topics that come up in the management review that they discuss on a regular basis. So they're not doing many management reviews, but they've really got their business aligned well for, for quality. And so it works out pretty cool that a lot of these things that they talk about in the managed review, they're brought up every month anyways.
I mean, yep. That sounds so, essentially, you'd kind of touch on it every month or, you know, everybody knows that these things are going on, and then you would still have your capstone meeting. Yeah. Yeah. And then you update that management review meeting and you basically say, hey, Here was our trend or, you know, here are the results throughout the year. This is kinda what we were looking like. This is what we discussed.
These are issues we ran into. And here's the summary of this year's activities, which I really kind of think is the spirit of the idea of the management review. I mean, you don't wanna go into it totally blind. Like, man, we we know that these numbers are very important, but we've not looked at them once in a year. Yeah. Well, and that's what I've from my understanding, a lot of people do. Yeah. It's, it's true. And, I mean, I get why. It's a lot of time, and it okay. So this is another good
reason why. We'll we'll maybe go into what's in the management review here soon, but, But, you know, I remember my previous job, I would put together a management review, and this was before we had, you know, all of the, the good reporting, tools that we've got available now with TQA Cloud. Right? So this was Kyle running Excel with pivot charts and filters and links between spreadsheets and trying to get, you know, data from here and
there. Right? And I remember after I, quit and left, for the next couple of years, the guy that took my job, he, he had to call up. And he's like, Kyle, can you do you remember what you did to calculate this part right here? Because I'm not seeing it from your notes. And so I'd have to try to remember what it was I'd done and put it together and do it again, but it takes a lot of time to put some of these numbers together. It it really it really does.
And, you know, I I I would love to say, you know, pick some of your objectives because they're easier or some of your KPIs because they're easier to calculate. But you know what? I really didn't have a lot of say in it back then because these were numbers that management wanted. They wanted to see how these things work. So I guess it didn't really matter how easy or difficult it was to calculate. I still had to do it.
So as far as the requirements for key performance indicators or, you know, performance analysis, like, is that defined in the standards? Like, where or is it just up to the company? A little bit yes. A little bit no. Exactly what you track, you totally have to decide. You completely decide the numbers that are important to you. The standard gives you some things to look at. Let me pull up the standard here if I can. Let me change that camera layout. Oh, there we go. Well, let me
see here. I don't know if that's gonna work. I might need to do this. Dang it. I should have picked a better here, we'll just share the whole screen. Blow you up big. There we go. Alright. I'm just gonna pull us off of it for a minute here. So we take a look at the standard. You look at management review clause 9.3. Now I'm talking from ISO 9,001,
the 2015 edition of it. I will say that the management review requirements for API q1q2, not identical, really, really close, really, really similar requirements. I really don't think ISO is good for pulling lists off of, except in this one scenario. This is a really cool scenario where we can pull a list off of things. Because you go to management review inputs, all that means is these are the things that we have to address during that management review.
I tell people make a slide on a PowerPoint or a heading on a Word document in each one of these bullet points. Well, they become your title. Right? So let's start off with page 1 or management review, the status of actions from previous management reviews. Well, hey. If this is your first one, that's that's easy. Right? You just say it's my first one. We've we've never done it before. Alright. Cool. Otherwise, you need to talk about last time. Did you say you were gonna do something?
And did you do it? So you do kinda need to ask someone ahead of time to gather a lot of information, to gather a lot of data. Right? So do we do anything there? Changes in external and internal issues that are relevant to the quality management system. You know, these are things that top management is gonna discuss informally just a whole lot of the time, but management may not necessarily, I guess, even be aware they're talking about it. So, like, internal, external issues. This might
be, hey. 1 of our competitors, they just merged with another company. That changes the dynamic in our market. That's something we need to consider. We've got a new product line that's gonna be delayed for 6 months, and we won't be able to get it out next year because of x y z. You can talk about these things. Put them in the management review, and you may feel oh, go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say with, point b, there are changes in external and internal issues that are relevant.
You know, for the people that don't look at this stuff until it's time for the management review versus the people that, you know, make it a point to, in an organized fashion, touch on these topics regularly. They're already gonna have that information. So They will. You might even I was gonna I was gonna say you might even, you know, make keep a list of these around. That way you're, you know, throughout the year, keeping them fresh in your head. Yep. And you don't have to be the
quality manager to do that. Right? This could be anyone in any sensible leadership position in the company. You know, something I used to do, and we've got one customer that, will request me to do it for them. We'll add stuff to the management review throughout the year. Like, I remember when I was at, the, turbine shop. I would add stuff to the management review that came up because I knew it was something that needed to be discussed in 6 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, 9 months, however
long ago it is. I knew that we needed to rereview this topic again. And so just go ahead and add it to your management review. I mean, it's it's easy to do. It's easy to do. You just keep a copy of next year's management review started today. But again, like, that's if you're doing it on a PowerPoint, there's your slide title. You're doing it on a Word document, that's your heading. I mean, that's it. It it's this is one of the few times that ISO really gave us a good list.
Information on their performance and effectiveness of the quality management system, including Transcend. So that means you have to address numbers related to these bullet points. So if you're listening on, like, Spotify, Itunes, whatever, you might wanna go check out the, YouTube episode here, or maybe when you get back, you can turn to, your copy of the standard. But what we're looking at right now is 9.3.2 management review inputs, letter c, and then we've got bullet points 1 through 7.
So this kinda tells you we have to have at least a KPI or some ability to analyze data for all of these. Customer satisfaction, feedback from relevant interested parties, and customer satisfaction, that's what I wanna do a whole episode on. You're saying I'm gonna jot that down right now. So while you're jotting that, let's say that you don't have data for one of these. What's gonna happen? Ah, that is a good question.
Or maybe you calculated it there. You misunderstood it or, you know, something like is it in your opinion, would an auditor come in and go through this list and analyze your management review? Is that a good possibility? Oh, yeah. He's definitely running from this, and he's gonna Now he may not word it directly like the standard says, but he may say, alright. Great. Pull up your management review. I want to talk about customer satisfaction now. Can you show me what
you have for customer satisfaction? Maybe they'll ask, can you show me your KPIs? Can you show me your Yeah. Index? Can you show me your results? They may ask for more specific stuff, which really, as an auditor, they shouldn't do, but they do. Yeah. But let's say you don't have data. Customer satisfaction is actually a really I'll pull this the slide off for just a moment. Customer satisfaction is, like, really a good one to, talk about for not having data because, like,
it's really hard to do. Now I don't wanna go into the whole podcast episode here on it, but I don't know. Customer satisfaction. One easy way to calculate it is, obviously, they've got scorecards and what they call net promoter scores, and I get it. See, you survey so many customers. How many of your customers say that they would recommend you to someone else, or they give you a smiley face or, you know, something like that? Okay. You know? But there's limits of how good
that is. There's other ways calculating it. You know? Then we go to, like, the extent to which quality objectives have, been met. This is one you have to have data on. You you can't cannot. It will be a major finding. You cannot go into your external audit without having measured your quality objectives. Everything else on here, we could put some different hodgepodge. This happened and that happened and something else here and something else there, but you have
to have raw numbers for these. Now I guess with the new changes that they're making to, the 2025 version of ISO, maybe we won't have to have solid numbers for quality objectives, but currently, they have to have solid numbers. Process performance and conformity of products and services. All this means is nonconforming product, nonconforming outputs. How many times did you have an NCR? How did they trend? How did they clump? How did they group together?
So if you've got a, an NCR log and Excel spreadsheet, pivot charts all day long, gonna have fun with it here. If you're in TQA cloud, we've we've got some fantastic metrics and reports, but that's what we're looking at here. And yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Whoops. When I talk about process performance and conformity of products and services, and then the very next one is nonconformities and corrective actions, That is only there because I'm gonna do a little bit of scrolling here.
When they rewrote the standard, they just did some weird stuff with the verbiage on it. So that clause 8.7 is now control of nonforming outputs. This is our INCAR clause, 8.7. And then we go down to 10.2, which is nonconformity and corrective action and our corrective action clause. Now for anyone that wants, and I can just hear y'all chiming in the background, you know, it says nonconformity and corrective action. Like, that's different. They changed it in 2015.
No. They didn't. All they did in 2015 was they wanted to make sure that the corrective action clause was not tied to preventive action anymore. So they added the word nonconformity in an attempt to make it clear. I'd argue they failed. But so we're gonna talk about corrective actions. Pretty straightforward. Monitoring and oh, go ahead. Well, I was just looking at 3 and 4 process performance and conformity. Okay. So that's your processes, nonconformities and corrective actions.
Yep. That's really just corrective actions. So when you make your, PowerPoint, you make your Word document, I would just reference corrective actions. I wouldn't even include the word nonconformity here personally because the only reason conformities and corrective actions is because that's the title of the the clause and the standard. But, really, bullet number 3 is looking for analysis of NCRs. Bullet number 4, looks for analysis of corrective actions. That's why I was like,
3, 4, and 5 look pretty similar. Like, how did you talk to 10 people? You're gonna have 9 different answers on what goes in each of those. You are. That is absolutely freaking true. So then we go into monitoring and measurement results, and it's like, this is one that really pisses me off. Because in the standard, they call it monitoring and measuring in 2 different instances in 2 different context. So we have monitoring and measuring equipment
that's calibrated equipment. That's that's measurement equipment. That's that's something needs to be calibrated, checked, verified, things like that. Then we have monitoring and measuring of the management system itself. Now which one here do you think it's actually looking for? It's I mean, I don't I don't know, to be honest. Yeah. It's it's confusing. I've had a lot of folks get confused by it as well. So I would already hear that we want to talk about monitoring and measurement
results. This is going to be a rehash of really everything we monitor in our business, any other additional KPIs or checks, anything else that you monitor or maintain. Now you may be like, oh, well, we don't have anything. That's people's first reaction, and they freeze. But then I might say, well, what are places that you have that you check check information? Like, what are
places where any logs that you have? Like, you know, maybe it's something as simple as, we've we've got a lab, and the lab has to be temperature controlled. Yeah. Fantastic. How well are you maintaining it? We have a sign in sheet. Is it used? Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying come up with new KPIs. I'm just saying think about what you already do and let's report on it here. Yeah.
Right. Because if you already have a system in place and you have a checklist, you've already decided it's important, which kinda makes it worthy of being reported on. Yeah. Now then we'd also be monitoring measurement you'll see that's also kind of a a catch all as well. And the reason I say it's a catch all is that's kind of a weird layout. There we go. You may have whole other areas in your management system that aren't accounted for by our nonconformities
and by our active actions. So maybe you have a robust ECM process because your company does a lot of design and development. This is gonna be a great opportunity to talk about that. Maybe you have a big management to change process in place because you've got multiple locations and you're having to change and update things between locations all the time, kind of like what you just ran through with updates on
our software last week. Yeah. Yeah. This would be a great place on our management review to discuss all of these updates. How do we know it worked? How do we know it needed to happen? Could we figure that out earlier? So on. Then we're gonna talk about audit results. It's a big one. Cannot overemphasize how important audit results are for the management review. Because of that, let me hear. I'll just throw the screen up here one more time.
I tend to put audit results way up at the start of my manager review. I don't necessarily follow the order that they have here, but I definitely had a slide for every bullet point that they have here. I just may change it a little bit because audit results, let's face it, for most small businesses, they are a primary driver of corrective actions. And the audit, well, it hits customer satisfaction. It hits objectives. It hits process. It hits
everything. So I tend to like to discuss my audit results early in the management review. Because it already goes through a lot of this stuff. Yeah. Exactly. Now when we do that, there will be times because if I do discuss my audit results first, let's say that the only significant issue in the internal audit this year had to do with, external provider, suppliers, vendors. Alright? Otherwise, we had a great internal audit, but, man, we really had some supplier related issues this year.
Well, when we discuss audit results, we're probably gonna cover every single one of the supplier related issues that was uncovered. So what you can do when you get to the forms of external providers, don't delete the slide. Don't delete the heading. Just simply say this was addressed, you know, fully in and then reference whatever the clause number or slide number was earlier in the management review. Yeah. No additional input available. Okay. Well, that's cool.
Or maybe you've got certain scars or issues of suppliers you could talk about being case. You can't talk about them. So it's it's gonna be the case that sometimes in your management review, you just simply say, this was already addressed earlier, but I would not delete that, slide. I would not delete that heading from management review. Adequacy of resources. This is one where really you gotta think about it weeks in advance. You you really kinda need
to have these conversations. This is one of the clause of the management review that I would like to tend to see updated as the year goes on because everyone needs something. Everyone's always needing some sort of a resource. Right? Maybe we need another person. Maybe we need another piece of equipment. Maybe we need a training class. Maybe we need a better maintenance program. Whatever it is, we've got something that needs additional resources. So we want to address it.
And especially these days after, you know, post COVID world, labor market sucks. You know, logistics is finally stabilized, but I feel like everything's a little bit slower than it used to be. So let me ask you this. So let's say you're doing the management review. You have the the, portion that you're just talking about, the resources. Do you want to retroactively look at the year and see what your downfalls were and how, like and how you corrected those or just what currently we're missing?
I think both. I mean, I really think it's it's both. And it depends on your position in the company and kinda what insight you have on it. But Like, I guess another way to ask it is, do you want that evidence in there? So let's say at the beginning of the year, you had some employee shortages. Right? Well, halfway through the year, you hired some new people. You still wanna document that, right, to show as evidence that you address that.
You don't just wanna be like, today, what are our you know, the day that we're looking at this 2 weeks before the, or the management review, what are our current downfall? So you wanna be documenting as you go You made a good decision. Point there. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. So let's say it was the case. We had a a shortage for the 1st 6
months. You don't wanna lose sight of that because, you know what, you take a look at that compared to your, some of your KPIs, your metrics, whatever data you have, you may see the difference in the data. And that makes it really easy to explain to the auditor to explain to yourself. And for lesson learned for yourself for the future is, like, we can't ever get short staffed in this department ever again. Look at what happened. Yeah. No. I think it's great. I think it
would. I absolutely do. I think it's basically you had some, major shortage, whatever the resource was that that you know, for that portion of the year. I think it should be reported on. Yeah. That's a good question. The effectiveness of action take to address risk and opportunities. Oh, I hate it when I see this slide become half the damn management review. Drives me crazy.
Alright. You wanna put that in here? Because they talk about risk and opportunities, and it's supposed to be embedded in everything we do in ISO. So, literally, talk to chat gpt. Just babble to it. Tell it everything that you do about risk, all the risks that you perceived through the year, all the weird things that came up and what y'all had to do to resolve
it. And then try to tie that back to these risks were mitigated through the production planning process because ABC occurred and we resolved it through the planning process that was already in place. This occurred and we handled it through this corrective action. And these big things, you know, we saw coming and we handled it through this. Some of those adequacy resources will probably get rehashed. We'll need to bring that back up on the screen if I'm gonna be grabbing on on it.
So, you know, adequacy of resources, those will probably get rehashed when we talk about risk and opportunities. Risk and opportunities is a great place if you wanna talk about sales opportunities. Hey, look, we have a huge opportunity in the next 12 months or in the next 6 months of if we go into this market, you know, just like us, we're talking about moving into, you know, a lot more online training.
Okay. Well, that's a great opportunity, but that's gonna change the strategic direction of the business. Well, if you're looking at something, an opportunity that's gonna change the strategic direction of your business,
that needs to get discussed. And this is where all of the new cool things that you have kinda get discussed in these e and e and f. And, yes, these are basically regurgitation of each other because we have opportunity for improvement and effectiveness of actions taken for risk and opportunities. So really what that means is what have we done and what are we going to do? But I very rarely, rarely see an auditor make much of a distinction
between those 2. So you could even combine these 2 together in the same slide, provide you talk about stuff that you averted or ran into and get your way out of, but always reference the document information to go with it. Right? So do we have a corrective action with it? Do we have a knock forms report with it? Do we have an ECN with it? Do we have a design with it? Do we have a job number? Do we have a purchase order? Do we have a quote? What do we
have? Make sure you reference that documentation because I promise you, your auditor is gonna look for it. Let me ask you look for it. He's gonna assume you didn't have it at all. Let me ask you this, and I know we got a little bit to get through still. But, you know, when you're talking about combining e and f there at the end, do you still as you're doing your management review or as you're storing your evidence or whatever, you still want to, point out those individually?
Or so I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, let's say you do combine e and f, but then you don't distinguish that on your management review. And then so you gotta explain to the audit well, he's like, alright. Well, let me see f. And you're like, well, that was part of e. Like, do you still wanna kind of outline those things for an auditor or does it matter?
I would say, well, I forget some of these things sometimes because if you're a customer that we've consulted with, this is already in your risk management or risk awareness procedure. Yeah. As we state that for our business, the terms as related to quality, risk, and opportunity are interchangeable. Gotcha. The whole glass half empty, half full.
I I guess kind of what I'm also asking is as you're doing anything that you're being that you plan on presenting to an auditor, do you wanna draw the distinction between what you have and what the standard points out, like, to make it easier for an auditor to make sure that or is it up to them to be like, okay. Yeah. That's covered. Yeah. This the language here is already kinda fuzzy enough, and auditors this far into working with 2015, I really don't find
make that strong of a distinction. A lot of times, they'll say, well, I see your risk, but where are your opportunities? Yeah. And then you bring the sales guy in there or you bring one of the engineers on to talk about all the cool stuff they're working on. K. You're like, those are opportunities. And he's like, well, why don't I see those documented? And then you just ask a clear question. Well, why doesn't the standard tell me how to document it? Okay.
And then you get a little stalemate in the audit, and you move on. Yeah. Gotcha. I think that's a good question to remember. Why doesn't the standard tell me how to document that? Yeah. Because he's looking for a particular way for it to be documented. So it's a little sarcastic, tongue in cheek, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes this a good point. Like, you know, what do I what are they
supposed to do? How to document. Well, the fact is, when it comes to risk, very little is actually required to be documented. Very, very little is required to be documented. Now that doesn't mean why Kyle said we don't have to document it. Don't don't you dare put that on me. But very little has to be documented, but you have to make sure some is documented. So I'll give kind of a couple of pointers here, I guess. Every organization is truly different, so this is not a one size fits all.
If your company uses a lot of short term employees, it's not gonna work for you. On the other hand, if your company really works hard to hire folks that are skilled, experienced in the world, or maybe you've got a great internal training program, One of the ways you mitigate risk is through hiring a training of competent, skilled, qualified people so that they can make good decisions.
Yep. Put that in your management review. And here's the guys we hired this year, and here's why they're awesome, and here's how they're gonna help us prevent risk. Okay. For me? Yeah. Alright. I could talk a lot more on it. So if you if you're listening to this, you got any questions on stuff, just drop a comment on YouTube, and we will do another q and a and come back around to it. Alright. Last bit. We're almost done with management review. They talked about management review outputs.
Now this can be on a completely separate document. This can be on the same management review document. It really doesn't matter as long as you do it, and you do it somewhat consistently. But outputs of management review shall include decisions and actions related to. So all this means is decisions and actions. What are you going to do? What did you task someone with doing? So a little cheat that I've used for this before. And again, this is only when,
you know, it works with your customer. Everyone's happy with it, you know, whatnot. But if you do your management review and even if you're doing it internal, you're internally, there's no remote person involved. Still do it on a Microsoft Teams meeting, record it, have it transcribe it. And, then from that transcription, if every time you wanted someone to do something, you said task assigned, then you could just tell it to go through and do analysis of task assigned and who was assigned to
and what they're supposed to do. Any case, just some little cheats you can do. But no one cares about what we what we said we're gonna do. Outputs management view shall include decisions and actions related to, opportunities for improvement. Well, duh. Any need for changes to the quality management system? So Okay. Let me stop you there. The opportunities for improvement distinguish between so we've switched kind of subtopics here. This is management review outputs for those who are listening.
And so our first point a is opportunities for improvement when we just saw it on f. But this the last subtopic. But this would be opportunities for improvement that are discovered during the management review. Yes. Okay. All right. Anything new discovered during the management review or let's say, you know, maybe we had something that we'd been working on and it wasn't complete yet and we can't really
address the results yet. Maybe we had a whole series of corrective actions from the internal audit. Well, maybe we want to readdress in the output and say, hey. We had 9 corrective actions come out of our internal audit. We've really got to follow-up on these. So not allowing a follow-up on them, we're gonna rereview them all in 90 days. So you could technically have an opportunities for improvement for the opportunities for improvement. Oh, gosh. Let's not go down that rabbit trail again.
Let's not do that. Oh gosh. So something we did did in my last job is this is one of the things we had a hard time with, actually. I forgot this was largely for, management review. We would come up with the, opportunities for improvement because it's one of the things you have to report on in the management review. It's one of the things you have to
talk about in the external audit. And so I would sit down with my manager, Glenn, and we just sit and, you know, bullshit for 20 minutes before, you know, a couple of days for the audit. And I just be, you know, furiously making a list. Here's all of the things that we improved and did new and did good this year. And then we made lists and then we turned that list over to the auditors, said, hey, here's all of our opportunities for improvement and
what we did this year. And it worked well for the 1st couple of years, but we realized we needed better. And that's when we came up with our GSD log. And it was our, you know, continual improvement log. It was based on the, OKR system from and I guess whole other topic. But, we called it GSD because when I was trying to present this topic, one of the production supervisors stood up and said, Kyle, we just need to get shit done.
I'm like, that's what we're here for. He's like, well, what's this oak oak crush stuff you're talking about? I was like, fine. Throw throw that out the window. This GSD from now on. This is the GSD list. This is the GSD meeting, and you are the GSD team. We are the get shit done team. Let's go. And but that was our continual improvement log because we had so many little sidebar projects running all the time that we couldn't even keep track of it. Right?
So maybe we're developing a new coding specification, a new weld spec, you know, a new restoration requirement. You know, whatever it is that we're doing with all these little side projects go on. We couldn't keep track of it. So we had to come up with a whole new list. Okay. So it works. Oh, hey. That's a good point. So we were talking about earlier when you're developing the management review, and we want to talk about monitoring and
measuring results. We wanna talk about opportunities for improvement. All these opportunities for improvement is where that GSD list came in. But in hindsight, probably could have worked well on monitoring results too. Anyways, well, that's really basically it. I mean, that's the management review. And anything that you say you will do, you just have to confirm got done. And if it did not get done, don't make
up some bullcrap. Don't whitewash it. Just be honest in the opening of the management review. This task from last year's management review did not get done. Yeah. And then describe why. Maybe you need a corrective action because you're really flubbed it up or maybe it was just a really complicated thing. You couldn't get it done in a year. Do you find and I guess one last question.
It it the management reviews that you've been a part of or you've witnessed as a consultant, do you do you see people try and hide things or try and, you know, maybe a department head or something like that is not being quite quite, truthful about their the performance or maybe hiding some things. Like, is that helpful at all to anyone? Like, I know the answer has to be no, but, you know, as humans and being realistic, like, no one wants the crap on their own parade.
Yeah. Right. And that's what kind of you have to do sometimes. And so I've definitely seen it where folks try not to report on things. So you try to make it sound a lot better than it really is. Yeah. I'm kind of like, no, guys, this is the time to be absolutely honest with ourselves. Yeah. Absolutely honest with ourselves. How are we doing at the top level as a company? Because if we start whitewashing anything, because all of these, these are very
top level issues that we're looking at. This isn't the nitty gritty getting stuff done day to day. If we're identifying problems up here at the top level that we're looking at in the management review, that means whatever we got going on at the surface, under the surface is just so much bigger than we can imagine. Oh, yeah. It's like roaches. 10 times we're roaching your house. There's a 100 more you don't see. Yep.
You got issues in management review. There's there's stuff in production that you you're not even aware of. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, people do it, but it's not beneficial because you just need to be honest about the stuff. Get a corrective action written, issue a nonconformance report, Have some output to this dang thing. Follow-up on it. And, yes, update it throughout the year. Add stuff to it. You know? I've got one customer that, you know, we do a lot to help prepare their management
review for. I will say they have the most elaborate management review of any of our existing customers. By no means the most elaborate I've seen, but the most elaborate of any of our existing customers. And they've got a lot of topics that they wanna talk about in there. Be honest with you, I can't quite understand why they like it as complicated as they do, but, you know, it works for them. But we'll add stuff to it as the
year goes on. So as soon as this year's managed review finishes, I create a folder for next year's. And so anytime they get something like maybe they got a customer, you know, customer feedback, whatever it is, they forward it on over to me. Anytime we'll report on how many supplier corrective actions they have and all those types of stuff. They buy new equipment. They'll send the information from new equipment. I'll drop it in the management review folder because
we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. Okay. But that's it. I mean, it's it's really not that difficult process to go through. I mean, I think if people will honest goodness, just don't think about what do I don't even think about it. Just start building it from the standard. Yeah. Like, really, just start building it from the standard.
Maybe go ahead and give yourself some notes ahead of time about what type of information you might expect to see under these subject headings, and then save that as your management review template, and you just reuse it every year. Yep. No. That's it. It's your the management review meeting itself, if you do all of the the leg work ahead of time, probably 30 minutes long. If you got a team where everyone's really engaged in it and really like the discussion, maybe 2 hours.
Yeah. But if it takes more than 2 hours, I promise you one of 2 things has gone wrong. A, you didn't do any homework ahead of time to get the data and analyze the data because you really do need to have someone doing that ahead of time because you know how it is. You can play with filters and dates and all these things and it takes time. So someone did not do their homework ahead of time or B, the management team is very disjointed
and they're not aligned with each other. So if your maintenance review itself has taken more than 2 hours, one of the 2 things is going wrong. Gotcha. Maybe the scope wasn't defined well enough. Yeah. Yeah. And, like well, and not even that, but maybe you've got, you know, a couple of managers that they're really not engaged with the quality management system. Oh, yeah. And they don't see the value in it. And they're really trying to argue and bucket everything each step of the way. Well, why
do we have to report on that? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, by the time you're in the management review, it is too late to ask that question. Yeah. And that's that's one of the summary things I think that we can conclude is, like, keep up with it throughout the year year and wait till last time. There's certain things you can't, you know, wait for the last minute on or it's not gonna You can't. You'll forget or you'll just fudge your way through it, and it won't do anyone any good. Yeah.
There's no point. No. But, yeah, that's it. I mean, the management review itself, it just ain't that complicated. You just gotta have you can't do it effectively if you don't have a good management system in place. Okay. Have data to report on. And this is why I tell folks, like, don't try to go for certification until you've been running the system for 4 to 6 months because you ain't gonna have data. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, that's it. That's all it is for the management review. You got
anything else before we wrap up? Don't think so. Cool. Well, that's it then. So, everyone, same as always. I can't tell you how much it does good for us. Please like, subscribe. If you like what you hear here, leave us a review. Spotify, Itunes, wherever it is you find us. Subscribe. Leave a review. We'd love to hear from you, and y'all take care. Oops. Wrong button there. Here's the Algo.