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Public Defenseless

Anyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day. Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system. Like so many of you, Hunter is not an attorney, simply tired of a news cycle and talking heads that offer no real solutions to the ever-growing list of problems we face. Hunter hopes that with this information, you will share his belief that ordinary people still can make a difference.
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Episodes

230: The Voices of Victims and Survivors that Alabama Ignores and Neglects w/Leah Nelson and Callie Greer

Today, Hunter is joined once again by Leah Nelson of Alabama Appleseed. This time, they are joined by Callie Greer, a Community Navigator at Appleseed, to discuss Appleseed’s Afterward. This powerful report sought out to hear from victims and survivors of violence. As is often said on the show, the criminal legal system does a poor job of providing for the needs of all survivors of violence. In fact, the system often perpetuates the harm of those who need help following the tragic events in thei...

Apr 25, 20241 hr 3 min

229: From a 25% Vacancy Rate to Nearly Zero, How the Montana Public Defender System Came Back from the Brink w/Brett Schandelson

Today, Hunter is once again joined by Brett Schandelson, the Director of the Montana Office of the State Public Defender. Last time he was one, we discussed his efforts to make Public Defense policy in Montana driven by data. Today, we discuss how those efforts have drastically turned the state system around. Specifically, Brett details how doing a better job of tracking cases and sticking to a workload standard has reduced turnover and helped retain Public Defenders throughout the state. Guests...

Apr 23, 20241 hr 27 min

228: Why is this Vitally Important Forensic Science so Rarely Used by Defense Attorneys and the Legal System? w/Dr. Shameka Stewart

Today, Hunter sat down with Dr. Shameka Stewart, a juvenile forensic speech language pathologist. While speech language pathologists have long been around, Dr. Stewart is the first person to take the field and apply it to juvenile forensics. The promise of the field was on display as she served as an expert witness for the defense team during the trial of Nikolas Cruz. For those in the criminal defense community, this under utilized forensic science could prove to be one of the most important pi...

Apr 18, 20241 hr 6 min

227: *AUDIO FIXED* Where is the Ethical Limit for Zealous Criminal Defense Advocacy? w/Martín Sabelli

Today, Hunter is once again joined by former NACDL President, Martin Sabelli. This time, Hunte and Martin are discussing a memo he put out while President about the Ahmaud Arbery murder trial. In that trial, Martin felt that the defense counsel improperly used racism as a tactic in their defense. Martin put out the memo because he felt that those in the criminal defense community, those who fight against systems of racism aught not use the tools of the very system that actively incarcerates so m...

Apr 16, 20241 hr 8 min

226: Why Isn't a Cop Who was Indicted for Shooting an Unarmed Person Being Prosecuted? w/Andrew Darling

Last summer, Hunter spoke with Central Florida criminal defense attorney Andrew Darling to discuss Governor DeSantis removing State Attorney Monique Worrell from office. At the time, Andrew and Hunter expressed their concerns that the primary reason for the removal was due to Worrell’s willingness to prosecute cops. Today, Andrew is back to share how those fears have come to reality. In 2020, Andrew’s client was shot by a cop. Originally, Worrell pursued the case, but with her gone, it took the ...

Apr 11, 20241 hr 3 min

225: Why Are People Being Found Not Guilty but Still Going to Prison? w/Andrea Jaeger

Imagine for a moment, you have been accused of several crimes. At trial, you are found not guilty on all the charges except for one. Let’s say that this is least serious of all your charges. While you wish you had been acquitted on all charges, 5/6 is pretty good. You anticipate a minor sentence, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel….but then you get to sentencing, and the judge starts saying your sentence is going to be just as severe as it would have if you had been found guilty of ev...

Apr 09, 20241 hr 12 min

224: How the DVSJA Gave Two Survivors of Domestic Violence a Second Chance w/Assia Serrano and Trinity Copeland

Today, Hunter concludes the three-part series on criminalized domestic violence survivors by speaking with two women who survived, endured years of incarceration, and utilized the DVSJA to get a second chance at life. Trinity Copeland was sentenced to 25 years to life for 2nd degree murder and resentenced to time served and released in March 2023 under the Domestic Violence Survivors Justice Act (DVSJA), after serving approximately 11 years. She is currently a full-time college student majoring ...

Apr 04, 20241 hr 7 min

223: The New York Law Giving a Second Chance to Criminalized Domestic Violence Survivors w/Elizabeth Isaacs

Today, Hunter continues the three-part series on criminalized domestic violence survivors by speaking with Elizabeth Isaacs, an appellate attorney with New York’s Office of Indigent Legal Services. Specifically, the two discuss the Domestic Violence Survivor’s Justice Act, a New York law designed to give post-relief to those whose incarceration is related to their victimization. While certainly not a perfect bill, it is an extremely important and necessary step to understand that people are not ...

Apr 03, 20241 hr 5 minEp. 223

222: The Case for Decriminalizing Domestic Violence w/Leigh Goodmark

Today, Hunter starts on part one of a three-part series on criminalized survivors of domestic violence. Kicking off this miniseries is Professor Leigh Goodmark. A former Public Defender herself, Leigh brings multiple decades of experience working with and writing about criminalized domestic violence survivors. On today’s episode, Hunter and Leigh primarily discuss her journey to abolition, decriminalization, and the stories/data that made her conclude that the carceral system is not the appropri...

Apr 02, 20241 hr 14 minEp. 222

221: ALAA's Ceasefire Resolution and the Fallout From it: Part II w/Sophia Gurulé and Pooja Patel

Today, Hunter is joined by Sophia Gurulé (immigration Public Defender at the Bronx Defender) and Pooja Patel (staff attorney at CAMBA Legal Services) to continue our discussion on ALAA's resolution calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. In particular, today's episode offers us even more insight into how the resolution came about, the steps taken by those who opposed it to shut it down, and why ALAA members felt it was so vital to pass the resolution. Guests: Sophia Gurulé, Staff Attorney and ALAA Memb...

Mar 28, 20241 hr 1 min

220: ALAA's Ceasefire Resolution and the Fallout From it: Part I w/Michael Letwin

Today, Hunter is joined by Michael Letwin, former President of ALAA 2325 and longtime Public Defender at the New York Legal Aid Society. Today’s episode is part one of the two-part coverage of the ALAA 2325 Ceasefire in Gaza resolution. To understand the resolution fully requires us to fully understand the patterns, practices, and history of ALAA 2325 when it comes to speaking about international events. With this context in mind, hopefully those asking why ALAA 2325 would choose to issue a ceas...

Mar 27, 20241 hr 14 minEp. 220

RE-RELEASE: How Moral Injury, Stress, and Trauma Impact Public Defense with Jenny Andrews

Today is a re-release of my conversation with Jenny Andrews. It comes as a right before two episodes covering the ceasefire resolution put out by the UAW ALAA 2325 union that represents Public Defenders and Legal Aid Workers at the New York Legal Aid Society, the Bronx Defenders, Camba Legal Services, and much more. Jenny Andrews is the Director of Training for California’s Indigent Defense Improvement Division. She’s here today to teach you what public defense is truly like from the defender’s ...

Mar 26, 20241 hr 18 min

219: The Future Looks Bright for New Jersey Public Defense w/Jennifer Sellitti

Today, Hunter is joined by the newest Chief Public Defender of the State of New Jersey, Jennifer Sellitti. Drawing on her background in public relations, Jennifer has exciting plans for the future of Public Defense in the state. As the new leader, Jennifer hopes she will be able to capitalize on a legislature and governor that appear eager to continue reimagining what a criminal legal system can and should look like. Guests: Jennifer Sellitti, The Public Defender, New Jersey Office of the Public...

Mar 21, 20241 hr 8 minEp. 219

218: The Cuyahoga County Youth Public Defenders Want More Cases, So Why Aren't They Getting Them? w/Nikki Baszynski

Today, Hunter is once again joined by an amazing former Public Defender from the Wren Collective to discuss their report about youth representation in Cuyahoga County Ohio. Nikki Baszynski joins Hunter today to talk about, perhaps for the first time on the shoe, a Public Defender office that feels they don’t have enough cases! Unlike most of the major metropolitan areas in Ohio, juvenile public defense is largely provided by contract counsel and not the Public Defender office. Unfortunately, thi...

Mar 19, 202454 min

217: Securing Life over Death in the Aurora Theater Shooting Case w/Doug Wilson

Today, Hunter sat down once again with the former Chief Public Defender of Colorado, Doug Wilson. This time, Doug and Hunter discuss the Aurora Theater Shooting case. Just like the episode about the Parkland shooting, today’s episode is designed to help people understand how such a heinous crime could end in a life over death sentence. In examining these cases, hopefully people can understand the power of mitigating evidence and a well- funded criminal defense team can have on a criminal case. G...

Mar 14, 20241 hr 24 minEp. 217

216: How a Holistic Defense Team Filled Critical Gaps in D.C.'s Youth Legal System w/Penelope Spain

While working as with the DC Public Defender Services, today’s guest realized there was a critical lack of attorneys assisting youth after they had been sentenced. Today, Hunter spoke with Penelope Spain, CEO and Co-Founder of Open City Advocates, to discuss how her organization hopes to keep kids from falling through the cracks simply because they do not have an attorney post-conviction. Guests: Penelope Spain, CEO and Co-Founder, Open City Advocates Resources: Open City Advocates on Website ht...

Mar 12, 20241 hr 7 minEp. 216

215: As States Criminalize LGBTQ+ People, How can Lawyers Fight Back? w/Richard Saenz

In just this past year, there have been over 400 anti-LGBTQ+ bills proposed in state houses around the country. Many have no hope of passing, but some will end up creating new was to criminalize and ostracize already vulnerable members of the LGBTQ+ community. Joining Hunter today to talk about these laws and their impacts is Richard Saenz from Lambda Legal. Throughout this conversation, Richard and Hunter explore the many ways our legal system disregards the unique needs of LGBTQ+ folks being p...

Mar 07, 20241 hr 10 minEp. 215

214: Even if You're Found Not Guilty, Iowa Makes You Pay for the Full Cost of Your Public Defender w/Alex Kornya

“If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided to you at no cost.” Ask the average American, and they will tell you that Public Defenders are free…. Unless of course you live in most states where they charge you something for getting a Public Defender. If you live in Iowa, this means you could pay up to the entire cost of your representation even if you are found not guilty or the charges are dropped. Joining Hunter today is Alex Kornya from Iowa Legal Aid to discuss the history, legali...

Mar 05, 20241 hr 8 minEp. 214

213: How Anecdotes and Fear are Driving Maryland to Undo the Juvenile Justice Reform Act w/Natasha Dartigue and Alycia Capozello

After being rated as one of the worst places in the country for their youth legal system, Maryland law makers decided to implement an overhaul of said system. After two years of study and advocacy, the state was guilted into action. Now, after less than 18 months in effect, police and prosecutors have convinced law makers into chipping away at the reforms. Today, Hunter is joined once again by the Public Defender of Maryland, Natasha Dartigue, and by Deputy District Public Defender for Baltimore...

Feb 29, 20241 hr 8 minEp. 213

212: How Three L.A. Public Defenders Hope to Change the Legal System by Becoming Judges w/Ericka Wiley, George Turner, and Kim Repecka

If you’ve listened to the show long enough, then you know Hunter has consistently advocated for more public defenders to become judges. With their insight into the legal system, communities can stand to gain so much by having a bench with more diverse job experience. Today, Hunter is joined by three L.A. public defenders who are all running for Superior Court Judgeships in Los Angeles County. Ericka Wiley, George Turner, and Kim Repecka know that their careers as public defenders make them uniqu...

Feb 28, 20241 hr 23 minEp. 212

211: The Danger Imperative: Violence, Death, and the Soul of Policing w/Michael Sierra-Arévalo

Why is it that even the most well intentioned, well thought out reforms for policing fail? At the heart of policing is a culture that teaches police to see threats around every corner. Today, Hunter sat down with sociology professor, Michael Sierra-Arévalo, to discuss his newest book The Danger Imperative: Violence, Death, and the Soul of Policing to try and understand all that contributes to that culture and how it impacts police practices. Guests: Michael Sierra-Arévalo, Professor of Sociology...

Feb 27, 20241 hr 10 minEp. 211

210: The Copaganda Fueling the Retail Theft Crisis that Never Was w/Brad Haywood

Today, Hunter is once again joined by Arlington, VA Chief Public Defender Brad Haywood. This time, Brad joins the show to dig into the ways copaganda has negatively impacted criminal legal reforms in Virginia. Specifically, we discuss the ways false media outrage about organized retail theft and the century old war on drug rhetoric have shaped Virginia’s discourse on criminal legal policy. Guests: Brad Haywood, Chief Public Defender, Arlington and City of Falls Chruch, Virginia Resources: Retail...

Feb 22, 20241 hr 15 minEp. 210

209: Sometimes to Fix a Public Defender System, You have to be Willing to Let it Fail w/James McDermott and Paul Chambers

Today, Hunter is once again joined by James McDermott and Paul Chambers from the Far West Texas Regional Public Defender Office. This time, James and Paul are discussing how they utilized the new National Workload study to double their attorney staff. While the use of data was extremely important into winning over county commissioners, James’ and Paul’s willingness to let the system fail proved to be the catalyst in securing more funding. Guests: James McDermott, Chief Public Defender, Far West ...

Feb 20, 20241 hr 9 minEp. 209

208: Death by Design: The Death Penalty in Harris County, Texas w/Jessica Brand

Today, Hunter sat down with Jessica Brand, the found of the Wren Collective, to discuss their recent report about the death penalty in Harris County, Texas. For decades, Harris County used the death penalty more than anywhere in the world, but unlike many places, it did not use full time public defenders for these cases. Instead, they used court appointed counsel, and the results of that representation model have been stunningly bad. Guests: Jessica Brand, Founder, Wren Collective Resources: Con...

Feb 15, 20241 hr 2 minEp. 208

207: How Public Defenders Can and Have Beaten Mass Immigration Prosecutions w/Eric Fish

In a follow up to our episode on Operation Lone Star, Hunter is joined by UC Davis Law Professor Eric Fish to discuss his recent law review article, “Resisting Mass Immigration Prosecutions.” On our previous OLS episode, we discussed the many ways the state of Texas has stacked the deck in its favor, making it extremely difficult for PDs to get anything close to a “win.” Yet, OLS is not the first mass immigration prosecution scheme, and today’s episode is about understanding the lessons we can l...

Feb 13, 20241 hr 4 minEp. 207

206: What has Actually Happened Since Illinois Abolished Cash Bail w/Sharlyn Grace, Celeste Korando, and Victoria Kerr

(AUDIO CORRECTED) Following years of intense advocacy in the state house, a robust coalition of people in Illinois were successfully able to abolish cash bail with the SAFE-T Act. For the tough on crime crowd, this law would turn Illinois into “the Purge.” Anarchy would claim the streets and the entire state would become lawless….but did that actually happen? Joining Hunter today are Celeste Korando, the Chief Public Defender of Jackson County Illinois, Sharlyn Grace, the Senior Policy Advisor a...

Feb 08, 20241 hr 43 minEp. 206

205: The Washington Supreme Court Case Giving 500,000+ a New Chance at Freedom w/Grace O'Connor, Nat Jacob, and Kimonti Carter

In 2021, the Washington Supreme handed down one of the most important rulings in the history of the state. For decades, people in Washington were convicted under the state’s felony drug possession law without any requirement they had knowledge of the drugs they possessed. The court struck down this strict liability law and opened the door for hundreds of thousands of people to be released, resentenced, or have their case vacated. Today, Hunter spoke with Grace O’Connor, Nat Jacob, and Kimonti Ca...

Feb 06, 20241 hr 33 minEp. 205

204: One Journalist's Effort to Uncover the Rot in Kentucky's Legal System w/Taylor Six

Today, Hunter spoke with Taylor Six, a journalist at the Lexington Harold Leader in Kentucky, to discuss her expansive coverage of the criminal legal system in the state. From a system that is almost devoid of all trials to accusations of racial bias in local prosecutors, Taylor is doing amazing work bringing to light the criminal legal stories that help drive better criminal legal policies. Guests: Taylor Six, Journalist, Lexington Harold Leader, Kentucky Resources: judge tossed a murder charge...

Feb 01, 20241 hr 7 minEp. 204

203: How the Legal System Abuses and Ignores the Rights of Incarcerated People w/Kaelen Perrochet

The protections of the Constitution are meant to apply to all Americans regardless of their status, but for those who are incarcerated, courts have systematically denied, abused, or ignored those protections. Today, Hunter is once again joined by Kaelen Perrochet, a UCLA law student and two-time previous guest, to take a look at the various rights prisoner’s simply don’t have. From denial of healthcare and safety to no access to courts or counsel, this episode is a reminder that courts have and ...

Jan 30, 20241 hr 4 minEp. 203

202: Using the Carrot and the Stick to Improve Texas Public Defense w/Geoff Burkhart

Today, Hunter is continuing his coverage of public defense in Texas by speaking with former Executive Director of the Texas Indigent Defense Commission and current Executive Director of the Texas Fair Defense Project, Geoff Burkhart. Under his leadership, there was a massive expansion of institutional public defender offices around Texas, but it happened in an extremely unorthodox manner. Normally, public defender offices spring up in the urban areas and slowly make their way to the more rural p...

Jan 25, 20241 hr 7 minEp. 202
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