Episode 493: Are Aliens Actually Demons?

The enemy's real and if I'm not aware of it , he'll take me out .

Well , look , tell us what did we do last night ? Why ? Why are we graced with the presence of Chad and other people from around this globe ?

We had an amazing time yesterday , like it was basically , as far as I see it , just a huge gathering of friends of , like I mean , a lot of our mission key mission people were here , but also people that have walked to this for many years praying , supporting us we're in the room plus their friends , so new people getting to know what we do .

And it was exciting because in a way , it's like celebrating what we've been seeing God do over many years , like it's just a real special moment . And then also it felt like going into a new phase , like a new level of growth and of people coming alongside us , so we were really excited for it .

There were like 300 and something people in the room from all around the Twin Cities and beyond , so it was really cool we raised at least $3 and 57 cents . It cost us like I don't know thousands , but we raised $3 .

You cannot have seen somebody for a long time , but when you come together it feels like a family reunion .

like this , even this morning , like worshiping together with everyone there are people there that we've been through so much , so many crazy things together and just be there worshiping and praying for each other is just so precious .

It is rare , it is rare , and so for it to be something that attracts you to our mission is not weird , right , I get it Like this world is devoid of that , in and outside of the church often , and so to have that is such a beautiful and unique thing , and it's that we have this common thing that we're striving for right .

It's not just community for community's sake , like you said , it's the battles that we've been through , it's the hard things that we've seen , the war stories that we've shared , of funny places we've stayed and places we preach the gospel , and yeah . All right , setlist for today . We have David's Random Story . We've already talked to you about the mission .

We're going to save Punching through the awkward for the next episode we're going to be recording live . So that's it . Let's get to it , shall we so I had a friend whenever he would look in the mirror , he'd see a demon .

You look at me , I want to see you every time . And after that he never saw the demon again . But the bad news is he didn't read the Bible more or pray more . And then he ended up going off the rail somewhere . But anyway , that's it .

And so he goes on this popular podcast and he talks about that Quote . He says it was not just a little voice in the Pentagon , but a huge group of people that thought the phenomenon that was being witnessed was demons . And so they kind of talk about this and laugh about this . And so I thought why not ?

A perfect opportunity to once again talk about aliens with the cross-section of demons , without giving any more context . David , since the floor is yours inevitably , what do you think about this ? What's your gut reaction to the idea that Christians in the Pentagon are resisting alien exploration ? Is this an affront to science or a cautionary tale for us all ?

. So I don't know why people would be afraid of exploring any kind of truth . If aliens are indeed aliens from another planet , or if they're demons , why would you not want to discover the truth about it ? That doesn't make any sense to me .

So people who say that they're Jesus followers but are nervous about discovering the truth about something makes me wonder how strong their faith is in the first place , Because my experience has been . When I really look into other philosophies or religions , it only makes me believe more that Jesus is real .

You see that in a lot of Muslim countries , where it's forbidden to think or explore even the possibility that there's another religious idea that could be good or even better than what you believe , yeah , and again , I don't know if we go in this direction , but a lot of what propelled the scientific revolution was the idea that God created everything , that the

world is knowable , rational , that we can pursue it , that God has given us the mind to explore it and then by all means go for it .

Like sometimes I listen to the NASA one or like the astronomy one from the UK because I'm just like really intrigued by trying to understand more deeply what's out there and it's amazing some of the discoveries they're making now , like of how far they can look into the universe and trying to figure out how far back does it go and when did it begin .

And then even a lot of scientists then linking that to God , like saying you know there's a few Christian scientists but also even agnostic and atheist scientists saying actually the intelligent design point is the best explanation for it . So that for me is like I love listening to that . There's a curiosity that we have that I think God's given us .

And that's one side of it . And then the other side is what you guys have started pointing to as well , which is that the discovery of truth is again a godly thing , like to search for what is true , to use the intelligence God has given us and in many ways , it's the foundation of science itself .

Like it came from man of faith and you know we've had John Lennox on the podcast and on some of our events and that's one of the things he often talks about like science is in its roots , in its origin Christian , it's based on believing as a God with intelligence who , you know , made all of this . So I , yeah , I totally agree .

So there is that aspect of the conversation . But what jumped out at me is okay , so you can . You can think it's silly , that , okay , there are demons instead of aliens . You know we shouldn't pursue that and you can . You can kind of laugh that off and I instinctively would do that . My instinct would be well , what the heck ? Why would we not pursue it ?

But the other side of it that got me thinking about this is that we have grown up in a culture , especially in the West , where we have so stripped culture and society of the supernatural , where nothing is demonic , even in the Christian world , where my instinct , my natural default , is not to assume anything would be demonic , like how that's so foolish .

And yet we have an enemy that's real , we have demons operating in this world , and so I think a potentially interesting conversation here is what role do demons and Satan play in this world and what would it look like ?

You know , because in our very intellectual , reformed thinking it's kind of like there's just lies in my head that's the only way that Satan operates , but I feel like he probably operates in more ways than that . And so , just as a general discussion , that whole topic what does demonic activity look like in the world ? Should we be cautious ?

Should we just be flippant and pursue or search out anything ? How do we guard ourselves and how do we view the whole thing ? Chad .

. And I'm going to add a third possibility . Would we not consider the possibility of aliens as angelic presence ? And why do we default , as Christians , to demonic presence when we think about it from a scriptural standpoint like Genesis 28 , I think it is , is the story of Jacob having a dream where angels are ascending and descending .

Or you know how many Bible stories are there where angels are present among us , where they appear , and yet how many times are their stories in the Bible where a demon was physically visible to the naked eye ?

He opened the door and a guy was there , came in , explained everything to him you know all the questions he had and then went to the door . He went to thank him and he was gone .

Well , of course I believe in the power of God , I believe in the Holy Spirit , but there is a part of me and intellectual resistance to the idea that you know that I don't know angels , demons it feels like , okay , that's for the maybe more crazy Christians on the periphery , or that which is of course not what I believe intellectually .

So what I mean by that is there's an aspect of kind of a materialistic , scientific proof thing in relation to the alien thing . Like the Pentagon and everybody researching , they're interested in it because they believe they could really see material proof of life , for example .

Right , so they've just sent that probe to the asteroid to get some some of the substance from the asteroid to figure out .

Are they aliens ? Not because they think it's a spiritual thing , because they really want to find material proof , and it's two different things . I think that's an important distinction to make .

anything to put into here materially . I actually think it's both , because it answers metaphysical questions .

It's kind of this hybrid thing where , yes , they don't have to ascend to a god , they don't have to sort of agree that there's some sort of supernatural being , but if there's this outside thing that we don't yet know , maybe that can be the what's the key to all doors . You know what ? I'm talking about C . The Lord of the Rings C . That's it .

During the Halloween season , they always have free tarot card reading and all kinds of occultic things , and the place is packed out with people , just normal people with their kids going to get their tarot card read or talk to their dead grandma , and I think there's C .

And then they'll go like , oh , maybe there are aliens , there are super intelligent beings who are way more advanced , and that's a big part of this whole search for aliens .

Because if you look at like I often listen we've mentioned this very times here but like the Joe Rogan podcast and how he'll be really curious about like okay , where did the pyramids come from ? And the ancient civilizations and whether aliens that came , and he loves like exploring that and bringing people on the show that , where they're talking about these ideas .

So there is a big part of our culture that's pursuing these . You know , whatever you want to call it , but they're trying to find explanations that you know they're not spiritual explanations . Maybe there is a physical spirit , sorry , physical intelligent being , that's helped us .

They don't want there to have to be a supernatural explanation for metaphysical questions they can't answer materially , so they'll rather defer to some mysterious alien Keral , some panacea , like if there'll be an alien that'll answer all the questions that I don't want God to have to answer cold universe can't answer either .

Listening to this falls similar to where I am or where I don't know . Want to speak for all of you guys , but my instinct is to laugh off the idea that we should not pursue aliens because they might be demons . And yet I think there is a real demonic and angelic presence in this world .

I mean second king , six fifteen through nineteen right Hold the whole Elisha story whereas his eyes opened . I think there is more of a real C Explain the story C Well you know he's surrounded by this enemy and he's freaking out . And then God reveals that there's this massive spiritual force on his side . C so I just seven , right .

So the Lord opened the eyes of the young man and he saw and behold , the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha .

Okay , we'll kind of entertain the idea of spirituality to some degree , but I think , by and large , my default is to dismiss that reality . The fact that if , if God would open my eyes and flip the switch , I think it would be scary . You know the whole like stranger things , underworld thing .

I think it's like there would be a reality around me that would profoundly impact me . Do you guys agree with that ? Luke , do you agree with that ? I ?

He's kind of challenging exactly what I think we need to be challenged with today . He says be alert and of sober mind . Your enemy , the devil , prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour . Resist him , standing firm in the faith , because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings .

And that whole chapter , which is one Peter five , he's calling Young and old leaders in the church , young people , and he's saying guys , stand strong , be alert , of sober mind , because we're in a battle . It's real , there's a spiritual world , there's . It's . This isn't a game , there's something we got to be aware of .

And that is exactly where we make mistakes today and I understand I probably in the same category as you , ben like it's too easy for me to just dismiss everything . And I see us Lewis put it we can fall on two extremes .

You can be all about just trying to find demons and everything and or angels and everything , and you know , I would everything spiritual and and diverge from what we even have in terms of biblical understanding and and you just kind of get it gets weird right . So there's that extreme . There's the other extreme , where we just dismiss it all .

I'm gonna think like , oh , you know , it's just this material world and you know , yeah , I pray and I follow Jesus , but there's nothing you know . And so this really challenges that . For me it's .

It's like every time I read it I'm reminded we're in a battle , the enemy's real and if I'm not aware of it , he'll take me out , because you know , if , if you're in a , if you're in a war , but you're not actually in the army , you're just standing around observing like that's where you'll get take , you're gonna be the first one out .

You know , so you got to be in the war where part of the team , part of the your brothers there in arms and be like okay , I got your back , you got mine , let's go . This is serious , you know . I think that's what he's calling us to have that kind of expression .

Our struggle is not against flesh and blood , but against the rulers , against the authorities , against the powers of this dark world , against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms . So when I face difficulties is my first instinct to think about the spiritual Powers , the principalities know it isn't but Paul saying that is where our struggle begins .

So if , even if I'm having a personal problem with someone , or whatever it might be , paul said it's not flesh and blood . And what would happen if I would approach things from that starting point ? With things change ?

. I see greater breakthrough and , like you said , luke , I think if we don't know the kind of reality we're in , we're not going to engage it properly , right ? Which is why , if I'm honest , like when someone says you know , I'm going through something really hard or I explain a really difficult situation , they say , oh , let's pray about it .

Like there's a part of my flesh that says , you know , like , of course I believe God can move , but if I'm honest , there's a part of my flesh that'll rise up and be like , alright , but how are we gonna solve the problem ?

And I hate to admit that , but it's true , it's like it becomes that kind of thing , and I think that part of it is not fully understanding the reality around us and needing the Holy Spirit to open up our eyes , but part of it also , I think , is the enemy working hard to make us not aware of what's going on .

Don't you think , chad , if we don't get it , we're not going to fight right , and that's going to make us a lot less effective . And so it's part of it . Is that , ironically , the the spiritual warfare is to make me not realize that the spiritual warfare .

But , for example , to tie this back to someone who might have an opportunity to talk with a friend About this who doesn't believe in Jesus is from Revelation 10 1 . Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven , wrapped in a cloud with a rainbow over his head and his face was like the Sun and his legs like pillars of fire .

So , like you know , when they are describing , you know , a alien , like flashing by an airplane , it's like that's not that far off from what is there . So why not go there with like , hey , have you ever considered the idea that there are angelic or demonic beings outside of this ? Like , let's explore this more .

Can I share some scripture passes that have blown my mind , and I just think that you know it continues like we talked last time about finding common ground and and .

It's harder for me to have a conversation about aliens and to lead it to spiritual things , but I do know that I have a lot of conversations with people who have had some kind of spiritual experience and that does Like open their minds and hearts to the possibility of God , and so I mean I even had a conversation recently I can't I think I might have shared

this on one of the episodes , but we did this conference in Serbia , this gathering , and it's people from all around the region , and we went out on the streets of Novosad , serbia , to share the gospel .

And I had an amazing conversation with this young Muslim guy , albanian background but living in Serbia , and one of the things that was really crazy was happening with him was that he had been Having these spiritual experiences that had opened him to think more about God and about what's true , and he'd been having dreams , like God had given him a dream where he

found a like a cupboard , a locked up cupboard , and when he opened it there was a Bible and he pulled it out in the dream and was like , wanting , had this hunger to want to read it , and he'd never read a Bible before .

And then he was telling me that one day he was in his kitchen and he started seeing some kind of weird stuff happening , like things move , like some kind of , you know , like we see in the horror movies . You know it's like some kind of ghost or something . And he's sitting there and the way he told it was , he said I decided to try reading the Bible .

When I read the Bible on my phone , the things would stop moving and then when I would watch videos of other stuff others like religions they would start moving again . And he's like so I think that's a sign that I should be reading the Bible .

We need to understand that , just like we seek truth about other things , we need to seek truth about the spiritual world

around us . And going back to that reference of CS Lewis , I think the analogy used is like the enemy If he can't stop you from getting on the horse , he'll help you up and make you fall off the other side of the horse .

And so the enemy will often start with maybe something like weird , like like making us confused about the spiritual realm and fear and demonic forces and all that kind of thing .

And if you , if culture , gets to a point where that's that's not a thing anymore , he'll push us off on the other side , which is to believe he doesn't even exist , which is there's no spiritual realm , there's no enemy , there's no , none of this is real and and that's that's what the enemy's doing , you know .

So we can say to people hey , there is a spiritual world and that's why it's so important that we try to understand it and we get to know God .

But one thought that came into my mind that I thought was might be interesting is you know , I think God is so merciful in the way he allows us to experience reality , Like you often will say , David , that you know , if I could fully experience God's love , it would crush me .

Like if I could get his heart for the world , like how he feels about the war in the Middle East right now , or how he feels about Ukraine , or poverty , or broken homes or broken I , I would just be laying flat on the ground overwhelmed , I couldn't move right .

So , in his mercy , we seek him and he gives us his heart , and then we shape our lives and respond accordingly . I almost wonder if our understanding of the spiritual world is the same .

Right when I come to him with a sincere desire to know what's true , I want to align my life with reality , and reality is there is a spiritual dimension that is more real , I think , than the physical dimension . But if I could fully comprehend it at all times , I'd probably go mental Like I probably would be immobilized . It'd be terrifying .

I mean , I think we forget the fear , the overwhelming fear that in angels and you know , of course , the presence of God people could even look at their face .

But God is merciful and that he allows us to still function in the very limited brains he's given us , and he gives us enough of the spiritual reality to fight the right way , to be urgent , to live for what matters , to pray the right way , but not so much of it that we'd just be overwhelmed by what I think our little two-dimensional brains can't handle .

I think my belief is that my ability to handle His broken hearts , the truth of the spiritual reality around me , the burden for the loss , I think I would hope that would grow as I grow , as my understanding of God and His love for me and my identity in Him . So yeah , I think he's faithful .

Like you know , I don't expect from my three-year-old the same that I expect from my seven-year-old , that I would expect from them when they're 20 . And that would be the hope that , as I grow , god gives me more and more .

He peels back the layers and shows me more and more of what's true so that my life can more align with reality and so I can be more fruitful for Him and I think there's a really important thing in what you guys are saying in terms of our personal walk of faith .

And I think , paul , it's because , like what you were just saying there , david is , if we don't exercise our faith , then it does dry up , and I think for a lot of us in our culture that happens . And so faith is something you've got to exercise , and when I read it in Scripture , it really is that it's a trusting in God .

When I can't see it , when I don't know , and it's stepping into that and it doesn't come to us naturally always , most of the time it'll be a lot easier to just kind of go ah , you know , just get on with life and , you know , don't take it so seriously . You know , we've got this thing that the culture seems to put in us .

We've got to fight against it . We've got to go . No , I'm going to pray , I'm going to trust that God will move and that he's here , and then the more you step out in that , the more you start to experience the reality of that and to see God answering prayers and to see that the spiritual world is real and that we are in a battle .

So I think we've got to exercise that faith so it doesn't go dry .

He's merciful , he's like hey , I want you to , I want you to you know what ? I mean it's this internal , and then as you listen to that and learn to cultivate , that it grows and it becomes . I feel like it becomes stronger . But even that , to me , is how God functions .

He doesn't want compulsion , he doesn't want , he wants to draw you out into deeper and deeper waters .

But he does that in a sweet , merciful way , I think , where you start to listen for that voice and you start to feel the way he feels and hear him lead you out , and when you take those risks , it opens your eyes up more and more to the reality all around you . Alright , that's it . First in-person snazzy glass conference room office episode , or ARSS , nzop .

First one in the books , first one in the bag wait .

It's beautiful to to be reminded and just like last night , the the amazingness of how you describe family , yeah , and being reminded that the gifts and the calling of God are not revocable and he doesn't just move his hand , remove his hand from us and like , okay , you were too far gone , you were too bland , you were too not spiritual , you were too not

risk-taking . I'm done , it's . Last night to me was just like you're surrounded by giants in the faith and nothing's changed in how I see you , and it was just like Whoa . I woke up this morning just having like dreams of like prophesying over people again and wow over people and it's like man .

I haven't felt this stuff in a long time I was like I'm getting .