Breaking hearts and minds — Joan Barker '04

00;00;01;02 - 00;00;11;08 Liz Kay Hello and welcome to the Providence College podcast, I'm your host, Liz Kaye, and I'm joined by producer Chris Judge of the Class of 2005 here in the Providence College podcast, we bring you interesting stories from the fryer family. 00;00;11;23 - 00;00;28;10 Liz Kay This week, we're talking with Joanne Barker, an alum from the Class of 2004 who majored in history at French at PC, a chance meeting with a recruiter at a job fair. Her senior year set the course of her life abroad, first as a Peace Corps volunteer in Niger and later as a Defense Department consultant for language and 00;00;28;10 - 00;00;50;05 Liz Kay cross-cultural training. She has worked in the United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan, including two years as a defense contractor teaching English to the Afghan Air Force after the United States withdrawal from Afghanistan in August. Barker has become an advocate for vulnerable Afghans left behind, helping them evacuate and sending aid, as well as writing op eds calling for U.S. 00;00;50;05 - 00;00;53;15 Liz Kay government accountability in this matter. Joan, thanks so much for joining us. 00;00;54;00 - 00;00;56;08 Joan Barker Thank you, guys. It's a pleasure to be here. 00;00;57;13 - 00;01;02;24 Liz Kay So let's just start at the beginning of your international career. What led you to join the Peace Corps originally? 00;01;03;13 - 00;01;06;06 Joan Barker So as you mentioned in the intro. 00;01;06;20 - 00;01;08;11 Joan Barker There was a career fair in. 00;01;08;11 - 00;01;10;28 Joan Barker Sleeve in my senior year at P.S. I mean, I'd. 00;01;10;28 - 00;01;12;17 Joan Barker Heard of the Peace Corps, but I'd never met anybody. 00;01;12;17 - 00;01;15;15 Joan Barker That had done it. And so I was at this. 00;01;15;15 - 00;01;19;07 Joan Barker Career fair and there were all these booths for different sort of like. 00;01;19;07 - 00;01;20;16 Joan Barker Financial institutions. 00;01;20;16 - 00;01;22;15 Joan Barker Or career fair booths that were. 00;01;22;15 - 00;01;23;27 Joan Barker Aimed at like the School of Business at. 00;01;23;27 - 00;01;25;04 Joan Barker PC. And then there's this lone. 00;01;25;04 - 00;01;25;17 Joan Barker Guy in the. 00;01;25;17 - 00;01;26;02 Joan Barker Corner from. 00;01;26;02 - 00;01;30;15 Joan Barker The Peace Corps, and I was like, That's the guy I want to talk to. So I went. 00;01;30;15 - 00;01;31;01 Joan Barker Over to him. 00;01;31;01 - 00;01;37;17 Joan Barker And, you know, just asking him about the application process and how you got selected and how they assign you and things like that. And we just. 00;01;37;17 - 00;01;37;24 Joan Barker Started. 00;01;37;24 - 00;01;47;17 Joan Barker Corresponding and I he convinced me to fill out an application, and that was that. So, yeah, that was the end of my senior year. And then exactly. 00;01;47;17 - 00;01;48;28 Joan Barker A year later, in the summer of. 00;01;48;28 - 00;01;53;20 Joan Barker 2005, I was on a plane to West Africa to go start my two years in Niger. 00;01;54;12 - 00;01;57;13 Liz Kay And what did you know about Niger before you got on that plane? 00;01;57;24 - 00;02;00;09 Joan Barker I am ashamed to admit that I did not know much about Niger. 00;02;00;09 - 00;02;05;21 Joan Barker In fact, I had never really heard of it. I heard of it pronounced Niger and the British pronunciation. 00;02;05;21 - 00;02;13;19 Joan Barker But I had to pull out a map and a globe and look and see where it was. And when I was going through the application process, there still wasn't much out. 00;02;13;19 - 00;02;19;21 Joan Barker On the internet. It wasn't like you could go Google everything or go read about people's experiences in the Peace Corps. So I. 00;02;19;22 - 00;02;21;00 Joan Barker Really had no idea what to. 00;02;21;00 - 00;02;23;23 Joan Barker Expect going into it, what the service would be like, what. 00;02;24;01 - 00;02;25;13 Joan Barker What anything was going to be like. 00;02;25;19 - 00;02;27;07 Joan Barker You still had to write hard copy. 00;02;27;07 - 00;02;28;06 Joan Barker Letters to former. 00;02;28;06 - 00;02;30;10 Joan Barker Volunteers that the Peace Corps could put. 00;02;30;10 - 00;02;34;12 Joan Barker You in touch with and ask them, like every the small things from what do I pack in my. 00;02;34;12 - 00;02;35;23 Joan Barker Suitcase to what is life. 00;02;35;23 - 00;02;36;09 Joan Barker Like there? 00;02;36;23 - 00;02;38;09 Joan Barker So I was pretty blind. 00;02;38;09 - 00;02;39;29 Joan Barker Going into the whole thing, but it was open. 00;02;39;29 - 00;02;42;01 Joan Barker To that experience and really had this. 00;02;42;02 - 00;02;43;14 Joan Barker Hunger and thirst to learn about other. 00;02;43;14 - 00;02;45;07 Joan Barker Cultures and go overseas and. 00;02;45;25 - 00;02;48;19 Joan Barker And see the world. And I've grown up in Connecticut next. 00;02;48;19 - 00;02;50;02 Joan Barker Door from PC and just kind of. 00;02;50;02 - 00;02;50;22 Joan Barker Wanted to get out. 00;02;51;11 - 00;02;54;08 Joan Barker And yeah, so that was the start of it. 00;02;54;08 - 00;02;56;03 Joan Barker And then after. 00;02;56;03 - 00;02;58;21 Joan Barker My service, that was that was the launching pad into. 00;02;59;16 - 00;03;02;04 Joan Barker My decision to go into language and culture training. 00;03;03;07 - 00;03;04;27 Liz Kay And what kind of work did you do in Nigeria? 00;03;05;26 - 00;03;08;04 Joan Barker So I was assigned to. 00;03;08;05 - 00;03;08;21 Joan Barker A rural. 00;03;08;21 - 00;03;10;01 Joan Barker Post as a. 00;03;10;01 - 00;03;10;12 Joan Barker Health. 00;03;10;12 - 00;03;11;03 Joan Barker Volunteer. 00;03;11;14 - 00;03;13;18 Joan Barker Which in different countries that the. 00;03;13;18 - 00;03;14;11 Joan Barker Peace Corps. 00;03;15;15 - 00;03;16;01 Joan Barker Has. 00;03;16;07 - 00;03;17;05 Joan Barker Volunteers, and that. 00;03;17;05 - 00;03;20;06 Joan Barker Can mean many different things. So, so being a health. 00;03;20;06 - 00;03;21;05 Joan Barker Volunteer in different. 00;03;21;05 - 00;03;22;15 Joan Barker Countries might entail different. 00;03;22;15 - 00;03;23;19 Joan Barker Things. And where I. 00;03;23;19 - 00;03;25;07 Joan Barker Was because it. 00;03;25;07 - 00;03;26;18 Joan Barker Was so rural, there were no. 00;03;26;19 - 00;03;27;08 Joan Barker Health clinics. 00;03;27;08 - 00;03;29;28 Joan Barker And there were no hospitals. So it's not like I was serving in a. 00;03;30;19 - 00;03;36;04 Joan Barker In a structure and edifice of any sort. It was more like doing education. So partnering with. 00;03;36;04 - 00;03;36;17 Joan Barker Local. 00;03;36;17 - 00;03;37;13 Joan Barker NGOs and. 00;03;37;13 - 00;03;38;27 Joan Barker Nigerian aid workers. 00;03;39;10 - 00;03;41;20 Joan Barker And helping fund campaigns where they could. 00;03;41;20 - 00;03;43;02 Joan Barker Come out into the rural areas. 00;03;43;02 - 00;03;43;15 Joan Barker And talk to. 00;03;43;15 - 00;03;45;10 Joan Barker People about things like family planning. 00;03;45;10 - 00;03;46;00 Joan Barker And maternal and. 00;03;46;00 - 00;03;48;17 Joan Barker Child health, because that was one of the. 00;03;48;17 - 00;03;50;06 Joan Barker Biggest challenges Nigeria was facing. 00;03;50;06 - 00;03;50;17 Joan Barker And still. 00;03;50;17 - 00;03;51;15 Joan Barker Faces is. 00;03;51;15 - 00;03;52;20 Joan Barker High mortality rates. 00;03;52;20 - 00;03;58;17 Joan Barker And infant mortality rates. So just addressing some of those health concerns. So that was what. 00;03;58;17 - 00;03;59;14 Joan Barker We were working on. 00;04;00;08 - 00;04;04;02 Joan Barker But at the same time, the village I lived in was on the. 00;04;04;02 - 00;04;05;21 Joan Barker Border of Nigeria. 00;04;06;08 - 00;04;08;26 Joan Barker And so many of the men that lived in the. 00;04;08;26 - 00;04;11;04 Joan Barker Village where I lived, they were farmers. 00;04;11;22 - 00;04;13;02 Joan Barker And about six months. 00;04;13;02 - 00;04;14;06 Joan Barker Out of the year, they would farm. 00;04;14;07 - 00;04;16;25 Joan Barker And then six months out of the year, they couldn't. 00;04;16;25 - 00;04;17;11 Joan Barker Farm because it. 00;04;17;11 - 00;04;17;28 Joan Barker Was off season. 00;04;17;28 - 00;04;19;25 Joan Barker For farming, the weather and everything like. 00;04;19;25 - 00;04;20;23 Joan Barker That. So they would go down. 00;04;20;23 - 00;04;24;23 Joan Barker Across the border into Nigeria to work in the local markets there. 00;04;24;23 - 00;04;29;12 Joan Barker And like hawk jewelry at people or try to sell them knockoff sneakers and things. 00;04;29;12 - 00;04;36;21 Joan Barker Like that. So the point is this all comes back to how I started teaching English. So these men, these like older men and some of the. 00;04;36;21 - 00;04;39;08 Joan Barker Younger men before they went to Nigeria, they. 00;04;39;08 - 00;04;42;05 Joan Barker Would pull me aside and say, Hey, can you teach me some English? So when I. 00;04;42;05 - 00;04;43;05 Joan Barker Go to the market, like, I. 00;04;43;05 - 00;04;47;01 Joan Barker Can try to sell things using English, because in Indonesia. 00;04;47;07 - 00;04;48;03 Joan Barker Where I lived in. 00;04;48;03 - 00;04;48;20 Joan Barker That village. 00;04;49;01 - 00;04;53;01 Joan Barker The local language was called Hausa Nature U.S.A. 00;04;53;24 - 00;04;56;05 Joan Barker So I learned to speak Hausa and I speak house. 00;04;56;05 - 00;04;56;13 Joan Barker Every. 00;04;56;19 - 00;04;57;00 Joan Barker Every day. 00;04;57;00 - 00;05;00;03 Joan Barker With them. But when they went to Nigeria, they had to speak English. 00;05;00;03 - 00;05;00;22 Joan Barker In the markets. 00;05;00;27 - 00;05;01;10 Joan Barker So. 00;05;01;10 - 00;05;02;09 Joan Barker Informally. 00;05;02;15 - 00;05;03;06 Joan Barker Like while I'm doing. 00;05;03;06 - 00;05;04;01 Joan Barker This other work as a health. 00;05;04;02 - 00;05;09;15 Joan Barker Volunteer, informally, I'd be sitting with them like drinking tea in the afternoons and we'd have these English lessons and I. 00;05;09;15 - 00;05;09;24 Joan Barker Just. 00;05;09;27 - 00;05;11;01 Joan Barker Loved it. It was so. 00;05;11;01 - 00;05;13;05 Joan Barker Much fun because in return, they'd be teaching me more. 00;05;13;05 - 00;05;14;04 Joan Barker Things about their language. 00;05;14;04 - 00;05;14;24 Joan Barker And it was like this. 00;05;15;09 - 00;05;15;16 Joan Barker Great. 00;05;15;16 - 00;05;20;15 Joan Barker Exchange. So I actually walked away from that. Most people that I served with in Nigeria. 00;05;20;15 - 00;05;21;26 Joan Barker The Americans were volunteers. 00;05;21;26 - 00;05;22;27 Joan Barker Went on to get their. 00;05;22;27 - 00;05;29;23 Joan Barker Master's in public health. I was like, I'm going to go get my degree in teaching English because I just that's that's what I fell in love with there. 00;05;31;10 - 00;05;33;11 Liz Kay So where did that experience take you next? 00;05;33;26 - 00;05;38;06 Joan Barker So when I came back to the U.S., I went back home to Connecticut and went to. 00;05;38;06 - 00;05;40;21 Joan Barker Central Connecticut State University and got my master's. 00;05;40;21 - 00;05;41;02 Joan Barker Degree. 00;05;41;02 - 00;05;41;13 Joan Barker In. 00;05;41;21 - 00;05;45;14 Joan Barker Linguistics with a focus in teaching English to speakers of other languages. 00;05;45;25 - 00;05;48;04 Joan Barker Knowing that I wanted to take that at some point and go back. 00;05;48;04 - 00;05;49;08 Joan Barker Overseas and. 00;05;49;08 - 00;05;50;06 Joan Barker Teach English again. 00;05;51;16 - 00;05;52;27 Joan Barker Not so much in a rural village. 00;05;52;27 - 00;05;53;20 Joan Barker But I ended up. 00;05;53;25 - 00;05;56;08 Joan Barker There's a lot of opportunity out there just for folks listening. 00;05;56;08 - 00;05;57;23 Joan Barker If they're on that career path. 00;05;57;23 - 00;05;59;15 Joan Barker Or are curious, there are a lot of opportunities. 00;05;59;15 - 00;06;00;26 Joan Barker To work. For example, in. 00;06;01;02 - 00;06;04;05 Joan Barker Universities overseas doing English prep for. 00;06;04;06 - 00;06;07;06 Joan Barker You know, for example, for people that want to come study in the U.S. or. 00;06;07;20 - 00;06;09;08 Joan Barker Lots of English for specific. 00;06;09;08 - 00;06;11;14 Joan Barker Purposes like English, for business or things. 00;06;11;14 - 00;06;15;15 Joan Barker Like that. I just ended up by chance when I when I got my. 00;06;15;15 - 00;06;15;29 Joan Barker Degree. 00;06;15;29 - 00;06;17;09 Joan Barker In 2010. 00;06;18;00 - 00;06;22;22 Joan Barker I was on a job board and there was an advertisement to go work on a military base in the United Arab Emirates. 00;06;23;14 - 00;06;27;11 Joan Barker And I was like, Well, that looks interesting, and I really like hands on teaching and. 00;06;28;06 - 00;06;29;20 Joan Barker And I liked working with this. 00;06;29;20 - 00;06;30;21 Joan Barker Male population. 00;06;30;21 - 00;06;38;15 Joan Barker When I was in the Peace Corps. So I don't I would love to go work with these soldiers. It was specifically these male soldiers in the UAE. And so I. 00;06;38;15 - 00;06;40;00 Joan Barker Took that job and it. 00;06;40;00 - 00;06;41;00 Joan Barker Was an American. 00;06;41;14 - 00;06;42;08 Joan Barker Company. 00;06;42;08 - 00;06;44;09 Joan Barker That I was working for, and they were partnered with the. 00;06;44;09 - 00;06;46;29 Joan Barker U.S. Embassy. So the US Embassy in. 00;06;46;29 - 00;06;48;04 Joan Barker The United Arab Emirates. 00;06;48;16 - 00;06;49;10 Joan Barker Was. 00;06;49;19 - 00;06;50;29 Joan Barker Contracting with the. 00;06;50;29 - 00;06;52;29 Joan Barker Emirati military, their military to. 00;06;52;29 - 00;06;54;19 Joan Barker Ask the US for some English training. 00;06;54;19 - 00;07;02;04 Joan Barker So the company that I work for was contracted to do so, and there was a team of about ten of us. So we lived in Dubai and we. 00;07;02;04 - 00;07;04;09 Joan Barker Commuted every day to this military base and work with. 00;07;04;09 - 00;07;09;11 Joan Barker These soldiers for about six hours a day, five days a week. And that was really, really cool. 00;07;09;26 - 00;07;11;14 Joan Barker And then so some of the folks. 00;07;11;14 - 00;07;13;13 Joan Barker That I had worked with there went on to work. 00;07;13;13 - 00;07;14;27 Joan Barker In Afghanistan and. 00;07;14;27 - 00;07;16;08 Joan Barker Some of the military bases there. 00;07;16;08 - 00;07;18;17 Joan Barker So it's this kind of small network at that point of people that actually. 00;07;18;17 - 00;07;19;14 Joan Barker Have this experience. 00;07;19;24 - 00;07;21;14 Joan Barker Working with partner forces of. 00;07;21;14 - 00;07;22;06 Joan Barker The United States. 00;07;23;05 - 00;07;25;06 Joan Barker And I know about these job opportunities. 00;07;25;06 - 00;07;33;27 Joan Barker So one of my friends, one day when I was looking for a job, this is in 2017, he's like, You should come over to Afghanistan. He was somebody that I had worked with in the UAE. So. 00;07;34;12 - 00;07;51;07 Liz Kay And what was that experience like when you when you transferred to Afghanistan and you started working for the Afghans with the Afghan Air Force? I mean, especially since, as you mentioned, you know, these were very male populations, and I'm imagining that in the UAE and Afghanistan, this is not a situation where, you know, women and men typically 00;07;51;07 - 00;07;53;04 Liz Kay are working together as equals. 00;07;53;18 - 00;07;53;29 Joan Barker Right? 00;07;53;29 - 00;07;56;09 Joan Barker So this is the interesting thing. 00;07;56;18 - 00;07;59;16 Joan Barker So my background, having served in the Peace Corps. 00;07;59;24 - 00;08;01;16 Joan Barker That village in West Africa. 00;08;01;16 - 00;08;01;28 Joan Barker Was. 00;08;01;28 - 00;08;03;18 Joan Barker Muslim. That country of. 00;08;03;18 - 00;08;06;10 Joan Barker Niger is something that 90 to 90. Percent Muslim. 00;08;06;27 - 00;08;07;24 Joan Barker So I had. 00;08;08;03 - 00;08;09;13 Joan Barker That was a crash course. 00;08;09;13 - 00;08;13;15 Joan Barker In working in that kind of environment as a female. 00;08;13;23 - 00;08;15;19 Joan Barker And I think other females. 00;08;15;19 - 00;08;17;13 Joan Barker In my position can echo the sentiment that. 00;08;17;13 - 00;08;18;19 Joan Barker As an American woman. 00;08;18;19 - 00;08;19;00 Joan Barker Often. 00;08;19;00 - 00;08;19;13 Joan Barker Working in. 00;08;19;13 - 00;08;20;13 Joan Barker Those spaces. 00;08;21;04 - 00;08;22;16 Joan Barker You are treated. 00;08;22;16 - 00;08;23;22 Joan Barker As sort of this like. 00;08;24;21 - 00;08;26;17 Joan Barker Like third, gender, right, because they. 00;08;26;17 - 00;08;34;11 Joan Barker Don't treat you necessarily like you're not expecting me to act like a Muslim woman in the local community would be acting, they know that I'm from a different country. 00;08;34;11 - 00;08;37;01 Joan Barker And so you're not you're certainly not. 00;08;37;01 - 00;08;39;28 Joan Barker Always treated like men are. I have. 00;08;39;28 - 00;08;41;03 Joan Barker Male American colleagues. 00;08;41;03 - 00;08;42;27 Joan Barker Who sometimes they would. We'd be standing. 00;08;42;27 - 00;08;45;05 Joan Barker Together and working with counterparts in other. 00;08;45;05 - 00;08;51;10 Joan Barker Countries, and they kind of ignore me and talk to the guy who is standing with not necessarily as a as amount of disrespect, but sometimes it was. 00;08;52;17 - 00;08;53;28 Joan Barker They were trying to be respectful. 00;08;54;02 - 00;08;57;09 Joan Barker Not addressing you directly, not making eye contact with you because that's. 00;08;57;09 - 00;08;58;11 Joan Barker Inappropriate for them. 00;08;58;11 - 00;09;09;20 Joan Barker To do so. I like to be clear that I don't I, you know, I sometimes I felt like people would condescend to me in certain situations. But most of the time, especially with like male counterparts that I knew. 00;09;11;05 - 00;09;12;17 Joan Barker Made me feel very respected. 00;09;12;17 - 00;09;13;18 Joan Barker And actually would take. 00;09;13;25 - 00;09;21;01 Joan Barker Care to make sure I knew that they were taking care of me. And in various situations where, you know, there's a lot of security risks at. 00;09;21;01 - 00;09;22;02 Joan Barker Play, my life was in their. 00;09;22;02 - 00;09;24;02 Joan Barker Hands and I always felt comfortable and. 00;09;24;02 - 00;09;30;20 Joan Barker Respected. But but that's a valid question, because that is it's it is hard sometimes to like. 00;09;30;20 - 00;09;31;10 Joan Barker For example. 00;09;31;10 - 00;09;32;22 Joan Barker one anecdote I can give you is I. 00;09;32;23 - 00;09;33;10 Joan Barker Did work. 00;09;33;10 - 00;09;36;23 Joan Barker With a woman in the UAE who worked in that schoolhouse with. 00;09;36;23 - 00;09;38;03 Joan Barker Those Emirati soldiers. 00;09;38;12 - 00;09;46;29 Joan Barker That we taught. And she was an American, but she was Muslim and she was treated differently than I was. Comments were made. 00;09;46;29 - 00;09;47;15 Joan Barker For example. 00;09;47;15 - 00;09;49;01 Joan Barker About what she wore and. 00;09;49;20 - 00;09;52;00 Joan Barker How she should be covering, you know, like her hair. 00;09;52;07 - 00;09;52;29 Joan Barker So it was. 00;09;53;25 - 00;09;54;13 Joan Barker That was very. 00;09;54;13 - 00;09;57;02 Joan Barker Interesting. That's one anecdote. I don't want that to make people. 00;09;57;02 - 00;09;58;23 Joan Barker Think, OK, that's what everybody is treated like. 00;09;58;23 - 00;10;00;11 Joan Barker But that's to your point. 00;10;01;14 - 00;10;02;02 Joan Barker There are different. 00;10;02;02 - 00;10;02;23 Joan Barker Expectations. 00;10;02;23 - 00;10;03;01 Joan Barker In those. 00;10;03;02 - 00;10;05;09 Joan Barker Countries and certainly in every and. 00;10;05;12 - 00;10;06;21 Joan Barker Any Muslim country I've worked in. 00;10;06;21 - 00;10;07;06 Joan Barker I've had to be. 00;10;07;06 - 00;10;08;17 Joan Barker Very cognizant of my dress. 00;10;09;00 - 00;10;09;09 Joan Barker And my. 00;10;09;09 - 00;10;10;23 Joan Barker Appearance and my interaction. 00;10;10;23 - 00;10;13;08 Joan Barker With the people I work with, specifically the. 00;10;13;08 - 00;10;15;16 Joan Barker Men. So but I do. 00;10;15;16 - 00;10;21;15 Joan Barker Think to your question, my experience having worked in Niger and then worked in the UAE. 00;10;21;26 - 00;10;22;07 Joan Barker I think. 00;10;22;07 - 00;10;23;21 Joan Barker Was very good preparation for. 00;10;23;21 - 00;10;28;07 Joan Barker Going to that military base in Afghanistan because I knew what to expect. 00;10;28;21 - 00;10;33;05 Joan Barker It's already a little unnerving. Thinking about yourself. 00;10;33;05 - 00;10;33;18 Joan Barker Getting on a. 00;10;33;18 - 00;10;34;06 Joan Barker Military. 00;10;34;06 - 00;10;35;25 Joan Barker C-17 to fly into. 00;10;36;11 - 00;10;37;06 Joan Barker An air force base. 00;10;37;06 - 00;10;38;03 Joan Barker In a combat zone. 00;10;38;13 - 00;10;39;19 Joan Barker There's a lot that you're trying to think. 00;10;39;19 - 00;10;40;05 Joan Barker About, but I. 00;10;40;05 - 00;10;42;27 Joan Barker Didn't have to worry about that because I already. 00;10;42;27 - 00;10;43;11 Joan Barker Knew about. 00;10;43;11 - 00;10;45;23 Joan Barker That. Like working with people from different religions or different. 00;10;45;23 - 00;10;48;25 Joan Barker Cultures, I felt like that was already like the way was already. 00;10;48;25 - 00;10;51;02 Joan Barker Paved for that. I just got to focus on. 00;10;51;17 - 00;10;53;07 Joan Barker Those broader security concerns. 00;10;54;06 - 00;10;55;03 Joan Barker So that was. 00;10;56;07 - 00;10;57;13 Joan Barker That was good preparation. 00;10;58;20 - 00;11;03;27 Liz Kay And did you stay in touch with folks when in Afghanistan after you left that position? 00;11;04;17 - 00;11;07;12 Joan Barker It did. So this was two. 00;11;07;24 - 00;11;08;26 Joan Barker 18 when I left. 00;11;09;18 - 00;11;13;02 Joan Barker Obviously, everybody. Most of the folks there have Facebook. At this. 00;11;13;02 - 00;11;14;03 Joan Barker Point. They might not have. 00;11;14;03 - 00;11;16;21 Joan Barker Laptops and computers, but everybody's using their cell phones. 00;11;16;21 - 00;11;19;07 Joan Barker So on that military. 00;11;19;07 - 00;11;20;03 Joan Barker Base where I work. 00;11;20;23 - 00;11;22;10 Joan Barker I worked with two sets of. 00;11;22;10 - 00;11;25;05 Joan Barker People in the. 00;11;25;05 - 00;11;26;03 Joan Barker Offices. 00;11;26;06 - 00;11;27;00 Joan Barker For. 00;11;27;00 - 00;11;28;07 Joan Barker The defense contractors. 00;11;28;07 - 00;11;28;10 Joan Barker And. 00;11;28;10 - 00;11;29;25 Joan Barker The U.S. military on that base. 00;11;29;26 - 00;11;32;06 Joan Barker Much of the stuff was what we call local nationals. 00;11;32;06 - 00;11;34;15 Joan Barker So they were Afghans, people running. 00;11;35;13 - 00;11;36;29 Joan Barker Spreadsheets or just doing. 00;11;36;29 - 00;11;39;11 Joan Barker Admin admin tasks or. 00;11;39;16 - 00;11;40;25 Joan Barker Serving as H.R. for the other. 00;11;40;25 - 00;11;41;11 Joan Barker Local staff. 00;11;41;11 - 00;11;43;14 Joan Barker We were hiring. So we worked with a lot of. 00;11;43;14 - 00;11;47;21 Joan Barker Afghans, and those folks fell under the job title. 00;11;47;21 - 00;11;49;07 Joan Barker Of interpreter translator because. 00;11;49;07 - 00;11;50;20 Joan Barker They would be interpreting and translating. 00;11;50;20 - 00;11;54;07 Joan Barker Documents for us, serving as interpreters at high. 00;11;54;07 - 00;11;55;09 Joan Barker Level meetings on the. 00;11;55;09 - 00;11;55;21 Joan Barker Military. 00;11;55;21 - 00;11;56;21 Joan Barker Base with the Afghan. 00;11;56;21 - 00;11;59;28 Joan Barker Military leadership. So they served a lot of different roles, but. 00;11;59;28 - 00;12;01;02 Joan Barker They qualified. 00;12;01;02 - 00;12;01;09 Joan Barker For. 00;12;01;09 - 00;12;01;27 Joan Barker What you may. 00;12;01;27 - 00;12;02;11 Joan Barker Have heard in. 00;12;02;11 - 00;12;04;08 Joan Barker The media as the Sivy. 00;12;04;16 - 00;12;05;20 Joan Barker Or special immigration. 00;12;05;20 - 00;12;06;05 Joan Barker Visas. 00;12;07;04 - 00;12;11;03 Joan Barker So I worked with those folks, like in the office, and then I'd go out and teach in the classrooms. 00;12;11;03 - 00;12;12;29 Joan Barker Which were usually these little trailers like. 00;12;13;05 - 00;12;15;28 Joan Barker Dotted around the military base next to. 00;12;15;28 - 00;12;18;28 Joan Barker Different aircraft hangars and things like that where we'd be working with the. 00;12;18;28 - 00;12;19;28 Joan Barker Soldiers of. 00;12;19;28 - 00;12;20;06 Joan Barker The Air. 00;12;20;06 - 00;12;21;24 Joan Barker Force and Special Mission. 00;12;21;24 - 00;12;32;10 Joan Barker Wing. So when I left, I knew hundreds of Afghans. So, you know, I mean, we're all in touch on Facebook and WhatsApp and Signal. 00;12;32;10 - 00;12;33;14 Joan Barker And Twitter and all these. 00;12;33;14 - 00;12;34;00 Joan Barker Different social. 00;12;34;00 - 00;12;38;07 Joan Barker Media platforms. So when this all, I don't know. 00;12;38;07 - 00;12;39;10 Joan Barker If that's where your question is. 00;12;39;10 - 00;12;46;23 Joan Barker Leading, but when this all kicked off in August, when Kabul was falling. Myself, along with hundreds of thousands. 00;12;46;23 - 00;12;49;22 Joan Barker Of other defense contractors and military servicemen. 00;12;49;22 - 00;12;51;18 Joan Barker And women who had been in Afghanistan. 00;12;51;19 - 00;12;52;15 Joan Barker Everybody on. 00;12;52;15 - 00;12;54;14 Joan Barker August 15th went through this collective. 00;12;54;14 - 00;12;55;03 Joan Barker Experience. 00;12;55;03 - 00;12;55;15 Joan Barker Of the. 00;12;55;15 - 00;12;56;21 Joan Barker Phone just started like. 00;12;57;19 - 00;13;10;07 Joan Barker Binging and buzzing and notification after notification after notification coming in on all of the Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram, like any way that they could get in touch with us, but please save me, help me. You know, and it was. 00;13;10;26 - 00;13;13;14 Joan Barker A very traumatizing experience for them and for us. 00;13;13;14 - 00;13;14;22 Joan Barker And it was it was. 00;13;14;22 - 00;13;16;19 Joan Barker It was scary and very intense. 00;13;16;19 - 00;13;19;27 Joan Barker But yeah, so that that connection to. 00;13;19;27 - 00;13;20;17 Joan Barker Us. 00;13;21;09 - 00;13;23;14 Joan Barker From when we left Afghanistan, you know, maybe. 00;13;23;14 - 00;13;25;13 Joan Barker Every four or five months. 00;13;25;13 - 00;13;26;13 Joan Barker We'll be checking in with each. 00;13;26;13 - 00;13;27;12 Joan Barker Other prior to any of. 00;13;27;12 - 00;13;32;12 Joan Barker This happening. Just kind of like, how are you doing? How are things there? And they would check in on me, Miss Joan, how is. 00;13;32;12 - 00;13;34;27 Joan Barker Your family or, you know, merry Christmas if it. 00;13;34;27 - 00;13;35;13 Joan Barker Was Christmas. 00;13;35;13 - 00;13;38;18 Joan Barker But we didn't really talk much. And then this has been a very intense. 00;13;38;18 - 00;13;40;06 Joan Barker Situation for all of us where we were. 00;13;40;06 - 00;13;40;29 Joan Barker Talking to them. 00;13;41;12 - 00;13;42;18 Joan Barker Every day, all day for. 00;13;43;02 - 00;13;43;25 Joan Barker A month straight. 00;13;44;28 - 00;13;57;26 Liz Kay What do you think the people should understand about the situation in Afghanistan as the U.S. left that people might not know it about the plight of particularly the folks your colleagues that were left behind, those who had worked with the U.S. military? 00;13;58;19 - 00;14;00;22 Joan Barker Well, thank you for asking that question. 00;14;00;22 - 00;14;02;04 Joan Barker Because that's why. 00;14;02;04 - 00;14;03;09 Joan Barker I started writing and. 00;14;03;09 - 00;14;08;00 Joan Barker Reaching out to media outlets and writing op-eds as a call to action. 00;14;08;11 - 00;14;11;05 Joan Barker For our senators, representatives. 00;14;11;28 - 00;14;16;08 Joan Barker The White House. I was writing op eds, basically saying to everybody involved while. 00;14;16;08 - 00;14;16;20 Joan Barker We were still. 00;14;16;21 - 00;14;22;20 Joan Barker Evacuating, you can't leave these people behind. We made a commitment and we need to honor it. And then when the evacuation. 00;14;22;20 - 00;14;24;12 Joan Barker Was over, I continued to call for. 00;14;24;12 - 00;14;25;24 Joan Barker Accountability in the congressional. 00;14;25;24 - 00;14;26;12 Joan Barker Hearings. 00;14;26;12 - 00;14;30;01 Joan Barker On the Afghanistan withdrawal. And what I tried to make. 00;14;30;01 - 00;14;30;22 Joan Barker Clear in. 00;14;30;22 - 00;14;31;02 Joan Barker These. 00;14;31;14 - 00;14;32;28 Joan Barker In any article I've written, I've always. 00;14;32;28 - 00;14;34;21 Joan Barker Tried to feature the. 00;14;34;21 - 00;14;35;22 Joan Barker Story of either one of. 00;14;35;22 - 00;14;36;03 Joan Barker These. 00;14;36;14 - 00;14;38;24 Joan Barker Special immigration visa interpreters that got left. 00;14;38;24 - 00;14;40;05 Joan Barker Behind or the. 00;14;40;05 - 00;14;41;04 Joan Barker Soldiers that we worked. 00;14;41;04 - 00;14;42;11 Joan Barker With because. 00;14;42;11 - 00;14;43;01 Joan Barker These are real. 00;14;43;01 - 00;14;51;03 Joan Barker Humans that I know, and I think that in the mix of all of it, it becomes a news item that gets lost in the shuffle and. 00;14;51;03 - 00;14;52;08 Joan Barker People are able I. 00;14;52;08 - 00;14;55;23 Joan Barker Don't want to say dehumanize, but they're not. If they're not connected to it, it's. 00;14;55;23 - 00;14;56;24 Joan Barker Easy for, you. 00;14;56;24 - 00;15;03;20 Joan Barker Know, in the news cycle moves on for people to move on with it. And I've tried to keep a human face on this because I want people to. 00;15;03;20 - 00;15;04;07 Joan Barker Remember, like. 00;15;04;08 - 00;15;05;05 Joan Barker What these people are. 00;15;05;05 - 00;15;21;13 Joan Barker Going through and what they went through. And, you know, I think. There's so much that I could say and that I want to say. I don't know if you have any follow up questions. I don't because I don't want to just go off on a tangent. 00;15;21;14 - 00;15;24;09 Joan Barker I've been very steeped in all of this and I'm passionate about it. 00;15;24;09 - 00;15;41;03 Liz Kay But well, I think in one of the pieces you wrote, you definitely highlighted the fact that there was a process for folks to immigrate to the United States. There were these visas were in process and that there were problems with that process. 00;15;41;09 - 00;15;41;23 Joan Barker Yeah. 00;15;41;23 - 00;15;49;01 Joan Barker So it's tough because I'm trying not to. I don't want to just go on a rant and sound like I'm critical of the government. I feel like these people did what. 00;15;49;01 - 00;15;50;08 Joan Barker Any American asks. 00;15;50;08 - 00;15;55;14 Joan Barker Any legal immigrant to do. They got in a line, a long line. These special immigrant visas take. 00;15;55;15 - 00;15;58;03 Joan Barker Years to process. They're a multi-step pieces that are. 00;15;58;16 - 00;15;59;18 Joan Barker Vetted by the State. 00;15;59;18 - 00;16;03;19 Joan Barker Department, Department of Homeland Security and various programs. 00;16;03;19 - 00;16;05;29 Joan Barker And initiatives within those departments. It is like. 00;16;06;28 - 00;16;10;07 Joan Barker Cleary, 14 step process. And a lot of the guys I. 00;16;10;07 - 00;16;12;22 Joan Barker Worked with were like Step 13 or at Step 14. 00;16;12;22 - 00;16;15;09 Joan Barker They were at the finish line. So this was double. 00;16;15;09 - 00;16;16;08 Joan Barker Heartbreak for them. 00;16;16;18 - 00;16;20;14 Joan Barker To to have to go through this, this waiting process. 00;16;20;14 - 00;16;21;29 Joan Barker And then, for example. 00;16;22;17 - 00;16;24;14 Joan Barker one of the fellows I wrote about in my. 00;16;24;19 - 00;16;25;21 Joan Barker Article, Breaking Hearts and. 00;16;25;21 - 00;16;27;05 Joan Barker Minds. His final. 00;16;27;05 - 00;16;27;20 Joan Barker Interview. 00;16;27;20 - 00;16;28;18 Joan Barker With the U.S. Embassy in. 00;16;28;18 - 00;16;30;08 Joan Barker Kabul was scheduled for September. 00;16;30;20 - 00;16;34;10 Joan Barker September. It would have gone and gotten his visa, and he was to the point. 00;16;34;10 - 00;16;34;22 Joan Barker Where. 00;16;35;03 - 00;16;37;12 Joan Barker He was asking me and my friends in the US. 00;16;37;12 - 00;16;38;27 Joan Barker Where should I live? They're asking me where. 00;16;38;27 - 00;16;47;20 Joan Barker I want to go, Virginia or Texas, you know, like he was that close to me planning his life in the United States. And then the day that Kabul fell, he was like, What do I do? Are they? Am I do? 00;16;47;20 - 00;16;51;16 Joan Barker I still have my interview, and I had to tell him, there's no interview. 00;16;51;19 - 00;16;53;09 Joan Barker They're done like they're leaving. 00;16;53;17 - 00;17;03;01 Joan Barker And so that was really hard. I think when you ask, what do you want people to know? I want the American people to know that there is a huge group of us like thousands of people out there. 00;17;03;09 - 00;17;04;15 Joan Barker That were doing this work. 00;17;04;26 - 00;17;06;09 Joan Barker Communicating with these savvy. 00;17;06;09 - 00;17;07;07 Joan Barker Interpreters and trying. 00;17;07;07 - 00;17;13;06 Joan Barker To get them information in real time that they couldn't get from our own U.S. government. And I don't say that just to be critical. 00;17;13;06 - 00;17;14;00 Joan Barker Of our government. 00;17;14;05 - 00;17;16;05 Joan Barker To me, it comes back to an issue of national. 00;17;16;05 - 00;17;20;02 Joan Barker Security right now. I wrote about that in several of my articles. 00;17;20;23 - 00;17;22;00 Joan Barker These people did. 00;17;22;00 - 00;17;22;17 Joan Barker Everything. 00;17;22;17 - 00;17;25;00 Joan Barker We asked them to do and they stood by us. They didn't just. 00;17;25;00 - 00;17;26;21 Joan Barker Work for us. They served a mission. 00;17;26;21 - 00;17;28;27 Joan Barker That was specifically in place to. 00;17;28;27 - 00;17;29;29 Joan Barker Combat terrorism. 00;17;29;29 - 00;17;32;12 Joan Barker Not just to nation build in Afghanistan, but to. 00;17;32;12 - 00;17;33;00 Joan Barker Secure it. 00;17;33;08 - 00;17;33;17 Joan Barker So that. 00;17;33;17 - 00;17;34;00 Joan Barker Terrorists. 00;17;34;00 - 00;17;35;28 Joan Barker Didn't have a place from which to plan and. 00;17;35;28 - 00;17;37;01 Joan Barker Operate terrorist attacks. 00;17;37;01 - 00;17;38;00 Joan Barker Against the United States. 00;17;38;07 - 00;17;39;20 Joan Barker And these people risked their lives. 00;17;39;20 - 00;17;40;00 Joan Barker To do. 00;17;40;00 - 00;17;40;16 Joan Barker That every. 00;17;40;16 - 00;17;43;29 Joan Barker Time they showed up for work in the morning. Anybody that saw them in a car. 00;17;43;29 - 00;17;44;04 Joan Barker Or a. 00;17;44;04 - 00;17;45;12 Joan Barker Taxi, some of them would like. 00;17;45;20 - 00;17;48;01 Joan Barker Wear disguises to work. They'd bring different. 00;17;48;01 - 00;17;50;15 Joan Barker Clothes home, so they weren't seen walking in the same clothes. 00;17;50;24 - 00;17;52;06 Joan Barker We weren't allowed to give our students. 00;17;52;06 - 00;17;53;02 Joan Barker Homework because they. 00;17;53;02 - 00;17;54;01 Joan Barker Couldn't bring papers that. 00;17;54;01 - 00;17;56;06 Joan Barker Had English on it, you know? So it was. 00;17;57;11 - 00;17;58;29 Joan Barker That airport that everybody. 00;17;58;29 - 00;18;00;08 Joan Barker Witnessed in August. 00;18;00;14 - 00;18;04;11 Joan Barker That airport was the military base where I worked. It's a civilian airport on. 00;18;04;11 - 00;18;05;10 Joan Barker one side and on. 00;18;05;10 - 00;18;05;23 Joan Barker The other. 00;18;05;23 - 00;18;11;19 Joan Barker Side. So like, picture it like a big like oval football field cut in half down the middle. one side a civilian airport. 00;18;11;25 - 00;18;14;26 Joan Barker The other side is military base. And on that military base. 00;18;14;26 - 00;18;15;07 Joan Barker Which was. 00;18;15;15 - 00;18;16;10 Joan Barker Technically a natal. 00;18;16;10 - 00;18;20;14 Joan Barker Military base, there were French, British. 00;18;20;18 - 00;18;22;12 Joan Barker Australian troops on that side. 00;18;22;15 - 00;18;23;29 Joan Barker Most of the American military. 00;18;24;06 - 00;18;24;27 Joan Barker And the Afghan. 00;18;24;27 - 00;18;27;11 Joan Barker Military and we were all living and working together. 00;18;27;29 - 00;18;30;04 Joan Barker And so and then we had all these. 00;18;30;12 - 00;18;31;03 Joan Barker Support staff. 00;18;31;03 - 00;18;32;03 Joan Barker The local nationals that would. 00;18;32;03 - 00;18;33;03 Joan Barker Commute every day to that. 00;18;33;03 - 00;18;33;15 Joan Barker Base. 00;18;34;26 - 00;18;35;28 Joan Barker They risk their lives. 00;18;36;06 - 00;18;37;00 Joan Barker To go through those. 00;18;37;00 - 00;18;38;01 Joan Barker Gates every day. 00;18;38;12 - 00;18;40;26 Joan Barker And then in August, when the U.S. military. 00;18;40;26 - 00;18;42;06 Joan Barker Went in to secure that airport to. 00;18;42;06 - 00;18;46;15 Joan Barker Get the U.S. embassy personnel out. Now these people can't get back into that place. 00;18;46;19 - 00;18;49;15 Joan Barker That they risked their lives to get into every day. So like the irony wasn't. 00;18;49;15 - 00;18;52;19 Joan Barker Lost on us that we owe them. 00;18;53;08 - 00;18;54;18 Joan Barker And we know what they're going through. 00;18;54;18 - 00;18;56;08 Joan Barker We know that there's something outside. 00;18;56;09 - 00;18;56;28 Joan Barker That airport. 00;18;56;28 - 00;18;59;03 Joan Barker Looking at those concrete walls with the. 00;18;59;03 - 00;19;00;05 Joan Barker Barbed wire on top. 00;19;00;05 - 00;19;01;25 Joan Barker Saying, I want my life to. 00;19;01;25 - 00;19;03;24 Joan Barker Go in there every day for these Americans, and now they're not. 00;19;03;24 - 00;19;05;28 Joan Barker Letting me in. And that was that. 00;19;05;28 - 00;19;09;09 Joan Barker Was the heartbreaking thing for me. The other thing. 00;19;09;09 - 00;19;12;20 Joan Barker That people need to know and that I've been saying from the beginning is that. 00;19;12;20 - 00;19;16;17 Joan Barker There was this interagency failure between the State Department and the Department of. 00;19;16;17 - 00;19;17;21 Joan Barker Defense that really is. 00;19;18;04 - 00;19;19;26 Joan Barker The crux of why I took pen to. 00;19;19;26 - 00;19;21;11 Joan Barker Paper and started writing. 00;19;22;00 - 00;19;28;14 Joan Barker We were getting notifications from these Afghans. That said, I have an email that I got from the State Department. 00;19;29;11 - 00;19;30;00 Joan Barker two days after. 00;19;30;00 - 00;19;30;19 Joan Barker Kabul fell. 00;19;30;20 - 00;19;31;03 Joan Barker They were getting. 00;19;31;03 - 00;19;37;25 Joan Barker Emails that said, because you an SUV applicant, you qualify to get out of Kabul. Please come to the. 00;19;37;25 - 00;19;39;03 Joan Barker Airport for an evacuation. 00;19;39;03 - 00;19;45;16 Joan Barker Flight. You got this from the U.S. Embassy. KABUL Even though the embassy had had fled the embassy, the Americans. 00;19;45;28 - 00;19;46;27 Joan Barker They their staff was still. 00;19;46;27 - 00;19;48;16 Joan Barker Sending out emails to these. 00;19;48;19 - 00;19;50;10 Joan Barker Special immigrant visa interpreters. 00;19;51;03 - 00;19;51;27 Joan Barker And they're taking those. 00;19;51;27 - 00;19;52;29 Joan Barker Emails and showing up. 00;19;52;29 - 00;19;53;19 Joan Barker At the airport. 00;19;53;25 - 00;19;56;05 Joan Barker Like risking life and limb and taking their. 00;19;56;05 - 00;19;56;19 Joan Barker Families and. 00;19;56;19 - 00;19;58;17 Joan Barker Their small children through Taliban checkpoints. 00;19;58;28 - 00;20;01;06 Joan Barker There were there was dispersive gunfire. 00;20;01;06 - 00;20;05;05 Joan Barker And there was mayhem and chaos, and they made it up to the gates. And then the U.S.. 00;20;05;05 - 00;20;06;05 Joan Barker Military was saying to. 00;20;06;05 - 00;20;08;28 Joan Barker Them, We're not allowed to let you in to no fault of. 00;20;08;28 - 00;20;10;14 Joan Barker The military. They had orders not. 00;20;10;14 - 00;20;12;15 Joan Barker To allow anybody in those states that did not have a. 00;20;12;15 - 00;20;13;13 Joan Barker US passport. 00;20;14;04 - 00;20;14;23 Joan Barker So it was very. 00;20;14;23 - 00;20;15;18 Joan Barker Confusing. 00;20;15;18 - 00;20;17;03 Joan Barker And very stressful and traumatic. 00;20;17;03 - 00;20;22;11 Joan Barker For these folks that were like when your government is telling me to come here, but then they come in, they're telling me I can't get. 00;20;22;11 - 00;20;24;12 Joan Barker In and they're texting us for answers. 00;20;24;22 - 00;20;30;07 Joan Barker And we don't have them. So what do we do? Me, I say, we, me and my team of x English. 00;20;30;07 - 00;20;32;13 Joan Barker Teachers that had worked there, veterans that I. 00;20;32;13 - 00;20;40;15 Joan Barker Knew, defense contractors that I knew we were all in these like makeshift Facebook groups of like 1000 people trying to get answers to these Afghans. 00;20;41;03 - 00;20;43;16 Joan Barker Do you go to the airport? Should we send you to a border? 00;20;43;20 - 00;20;50;09 Joan Barker How can we help you? You know, we want to save you, but we don't know our government. We don't have answers. Our government's getting on TV and. 00;20;50;09 - 00;20;51;08 Joan Barker Saying everything's. 00;20;51;08 - 00;20;56;12 Joan Barker Fine. If they just make it past Taliban checkpoint, they'll get on a plane and we've got information to the contrary. 00;20;57;03 - 00;20;58;19 Joan Barker So it was a very confusing time. 00;20;58;19 - 00;21;07;04 Joan Barker And so I bring that up, you know, I don't know what you're going to keep at it, but I think it's the American people didn't have access to that information. And so a lot of us. 00;21;07;11 - 00;21;10;07 Joan Barker That did decide to write or go to the media or do media. 00;21;10;07 - 00;21;15;04 Joan Barker Interviews did that because we thought they're not hearing the truth. And again, why is that important? 00;21;15;05 - 00;21;16;04 Joan Barker It's not just that there. 00;21;16;04 - 00;21;21;14 Joan Barker Might be dishonesty, but that is something that isn't just going to disappear. 00;21;21;14 - 00;21;22;13 Joan Barker Because the news cycle. 00;21;22;13 - 00;21;27;23 Joan Barker Moves on, these Afghans feel abandoned and thrown to the wolves. And so when they look. 00;21;27;23 - 00;21;29;07 Joan Barker At the American flag or they. 00;21;29;07 - 00;21;30;08 Joan Barker Think about doing business. 00;21;30;08 - 00;21;31;01 Joan Barker With the Americans. 00;21;31;01 - 00;21;31;24 Joan Barker Again, like that. 00;21;31;24 - 00;21;33;22 Joan Barker That is where I think it's a bigger issue. 00;21;33;22 - 00;21;36;16 Joan Barker Of our credibility. 00;21;37;08 - 00;21;40;25 Joan Barker In front of the world. And do we honor commitments to our allies. 00;21;40;26 - 00;21;49;03 Joan Barker When we say we will? Are we going to make tough decisions when it's diplomatically uncomfortable but necessary? And how is this going to come back. 00;21;49;12 - 00;21;50;19 Joan Barker To haunt us if we don't. 00;21;50;19 - 00;21;54;21 Joan Barker Do right by other people in the world? That's what that's what keeps me up at night. Not only. 00;21;55;09 - 00;21;57;20 Joan Barker That, these people are in danger and they're still there and trapped. 00;21;57;20 - 00;21;59;06 Joan Barker But this is going to have long. 00;21;59;06 - 00;22;00;14 Joan Barker Term repercussions for us. 00;22;01;03 - 00;22;10;16 Liz Kay So it's not just the short term, the immediate, like neat danger that these folks that you know. Yeah. And but it's also the long term impact on our reputation around the world. 00;22;10;24 - 00;22;14;08 Joan Barker And another thing that's happening now to another consequence of this is. 00;22;14;08 - 00;22;15;13 Joan Barker That they're so desperate. 00;22;15;20 - 00;22;17;10 Joan Barker Mean, these people obviously aren't working. They have. 00;22;17;10 - 00;22;19;06 Joan Barker No jobs. There is no functioning government. 00;22;19;06 - 00;22;20;21 Joan Barker The military has disintegrated. 00;22;21;03 - 00;22;23;05 Joan Barker So they're selling everything they own. 00;22;23;15 - 00;22;25;17 Joan Barker There's no money for people to give them money because. 00;22;25;27 - 00;22;34;10 Joan Barker The banks are out of money. So they're bartering things. They're they're trading off their wife's wedding jewelry, cars, furniture. And when they get really desperate. 00;22;34;10 - 00;22;38;00 Joan Barker Now, when ISIS and the Taliban are coming around saying, like, we've got money or. 00;22;38;15 - 00;22;39;11 Joan Barker Even worse, we can't. 00;22;39;11 - 00;22;40;05 Joan Barker Pay you. But if you don't. 00;22;40;05 - 00;22;40;22 Joan Barker Cooperate. 00;22;40;22 - 00;22;41;05 Joan Barker With us. 00;22;41;09 - 00;22;42;04 Joan Barker We'll hurt you. 00;22;42;09 - 00;22;47;04 Joan Barker You know, especially a lot of ex-military. I don't know if you saw in the news, but the Taliban did. 00;22;47;04 - 00;22;48;10 Joan Barker Stage a military parade. 00;22;48;20 - 00;22;49;29 Joan Barker About a week ago, and they had. 00;22;49;29 - 00;22;51;02 Joan Barker All of these MRAPs. 00;22;51;13 - 00;22;55;04 Joan Barker The tanks going down the street and they had helicopters. The people flying. 00;22;55;04 - 00;22;56;10 Joan Barker Those helicopters were the. 00;22;56;10 - 00;22;57;23 Joan Barker Afghan military pilots that had. 00;22;57;23 - 00;22;58;22 Joan Barker Been coerced into. 00;22;58;22 - 00;22;59;02 Joan Barker Now. 00;22;59;20 - 00;23;00;13 Joan Barker Collaborating with the. 00;23;00;13 - 00;23;03;23 Joan Barker Taliban. And that's that's not something that we want to see happen to me. 00;23;03;24 - 00;23;06;29 Joan Barker And that's devastating for all of us that that train those pilots. 00;23;07;21 - 00;23;08;07 Joan Barker And. 00;23;08;07 - 00;23;09;16 Joan Barker Worked with their military to see. 00;23;09;16 - 00;23;13;02 Joan Barker Them now telling us, like, yeah, they went to so-and-so's house and they said, You need to. 00;23;13;02 - 00;23;15;11 Joan Barker Come work for us now. Michael, are they paying. 00;23;15;11 - 00;23;16;01 Joan Barker Them or feeding them? 00;23;16;18 - 00;23;17;10 Joan Barker I don't know, but they're. 00;23;17;10 - 00;23;18;25 Joan Barker Basically like, you have to do that. 00;23;18;25 - 00;23;21;26 Joan Barker So that's another repercussion is. 00;23;22;29 - 00;23;24;05 Joan Barker As a tough pill to swallow. 00;23;24;22 - 00;23;31;16 Liz Kay Joan, if people are listening and have been seeing those news accounts, what are things that people could do to help at this point? 00;23;32;00 - 00;23;36;08 Joan Barker So. Well, in in an acute way, what people can. 00;23;36;08 - 00;23;40;14 Joan Barker Do is there are there are a lot of organizations that are trying. 00;23;40;14 - 00;23;44;01 Joan Barker To get aid into Afghanistan since a lot of Afghans cannot get out. 00;23;44;19 - 00;23;46;12 Joan Barker So, for example, the world. 00;23;46;12 - 00;23;47;13 Joan Barker Food program, I know. 00;23;47;13 - 00;23;49;03 Joan Barker They've been asking, they've been trying to. 00;23;49;10 - 00;23;53;09 Joan Barker Raise awareness and basically prevent this. 00;23;54;03 - 00;23;54;26 Joan Barker Mass starvation. 00;23;54;26 - 00;23;56;09 Joan Barker This fall. Afghanistan is. 00;23;56;09 - 00;23;56;28 Joan Barker Facing its worst. 00;23;57;06 - 00;23;58;22 Joan Barker Potential famine in decades, so they've been. 00;23;58;22 - 00;23;59;24 Joan Barker Asking for support and. 00;23;59;24 - 00;24;02;08 Joan Barker Donations. I know the UNHCR. 00;24;02;08 - 00;24;03;02 Joan Barker Is also bringing. 00;24;03;02 - 00;24;04;26 Joan Barker Aid in. I. 00;24;05;14 - 00;24;06;27 Joan Barker In my personal networks, have been. 00;24;06;27 - 00;24;11;28 Joan Barker Collecting money for a food aid program that we have been able to help. 00;24;12;11 - 00;24;13;05 Joan Barker Operate from. 00;24;13;05 - 00;24;16;11 Joan Barker Afar. That is successful in Kabul, getting food aid. 00;24;16;11 - 00;24;17;13 Joan Barker Packages to people. 00;24;17;20 - 00;24;18;23 Joan Barker So there's there's things like. 00;24;18;23 - 00;24;21;16 Joan Barker That immediate need addressing immediate needs. 00;24;21;16 - 00;24;23;24 Joan Barker For addressing hunger and cold. 00;24;24;23 - 00;24;26;18 Joan Barker But on a broader level, we still need. 00;24;26;18 - 00;24;28;11 Joan Barker To be pressuring the government to do the right. 00;24;28;11 - 00;24;33;18 Joan Barker Thing. So not everybody that needs to get out is going to get out with U.S. government assistance. 00;24;34;03 - 00;24;35;10 Joan Barker But I think a lot of us now turn our. 00;24;35;10 - 00;24;37;24 Joan Barker Attention to say, OK, so what can be done? 00;24;39;11 - 00;24;41;22 Joan Barker one other big, glaring. 00;24;41;22 - 00;24;45;05 Joan Barker Elephant in the room that nobody is addressing is that these folks. 00;24;45;05 - 00;24;47;12 Joan Barker That are trapped there are in a landlocked country. 00;24;48;02 - 00;24;48;23 Joan Barker Surrounded by. 00;24;49;01 - 00;24;51;06 Joan Barker Border countries who are not allowing. 00;24;51;06 - 00;24;54;16 Joan Barker Them to cross the border. I know Pakistan has a. 00;24;57;03 - 00;25;03;24 Joan Barker Has in place a policy right now, if you have a visa, you can cross into Pakistan, getting that visa is going to be challenging for anybody that has to go to an. 00;25;03;24 - 00;25;05;25 Joan Barker Office now run by the Taliban and present. 00;25;05;25 - 00;25;06;11 Joan Barker Themselves. 00;25;06;19 - 00;25;07;07 Joan Barker To ask for a. 00;25;07;08 - 00;25;08;04 Joan Barker Visa to get out. 00;25;08;06 - 00;25;09;09 Joan Barker Some of those people are being. 00;25;09;09 - 00;25;11;15 Joan Barker Rolled up and taken away if they find out that they work. 00;25;11;15 - 00;25;12;07 Joan Barker For the security. 00;25;12;07 - 00;25;13;13 Joan Barker Services or. 00;25;13;13 - 00;25;14;02 Joan Barker They were a police. 00;25;14;02 - 00;25;14;13 Joan Barker Officer. 00;25;14;13 - 00;25;30;13 Joan Barker With the Afghan civilian services and things like that. So. But, you know, other countries, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, all the other countries that surround Afghanistan, what are we doing as a nation to make sure those countries are honoring their commitments when they said they would be taking in refugees in that in August? 00;25;30;22 - 00;25;33;07 Joan Barker This is a human rights issue. Humans all. 00;25;33;07 - 00;25;33;23 Joan Barker Have the right. 00;25;33;23 - 00;25;37;02 Joan Barker To seek asylum and flee persecution and flee. 00;25;37;02 - 00;25;39;09 Joan Barker Humanitarian crises, flee starvation. 00;25;39;22 - 00;25;42;24 Joan Barker And it's you don't often find people. 00;25;42;24 - 00;25;43;10 Joan Barker That are in a. 00;25;43;10 - 00;25;43;26 Joan Barker Situation. 00;25;43;26 - 00;25;44;10 Joan Barker Where they're not. 00;25;44;10 - 00;25;45;06 Joan Barker Allowed to leave the. 00;25;45;06 - 00;25;48;24 Joan Barker Country. They're trapped in there under a terrorist regime. 00;25;48;25 - 00;25;56;22 Joan Barker This is not a legitimate government who is going to treat them well again, like they don't. They can't seek jobs. There's no way to make money there. 00;25;56;25 - 00;25;57;29 Joan Barker They're facing starvation and. 00;25;57;29 - 00;25;58;22 Joan Barker Cold and. 00;25;58;29 - 00;26;00;08 Joan Barker Potential retribution. 00;26;00;08 - 00;26;00;15 Joan Barker And they. 00;26;00;15 - 00;26;00;29 Joan Barker Have nowhere to. 00;26;00;29 - 00;26;03;24 Joan Barker Go. So to your question to come back around. 00;26;04;13 - 00;26;05;04 Joan Barker Because I can be pretty. 00;26;05;04 - 00;26;06;10 Joan Barker Passionate and go go off. 00;26;06;26 - 00;26;08;05 Joan Barker But to your point. 00;26;09;06 - 00;26;12;01 Joan Barker I think that people, if if they can get in. 00;26;12;01 - 00;26;13;16 Joan Barker Touch and write to their senators and. 00;26;13;16 - 00;26;17;29 Joan Barker Congressmen and women to continue to ask the administration. 00;26;18;14 - 00;26;19;09 Joan Barker To work with those. 00;26;19;09 - 00;26;27;29 Joan Barker Border countries, to work with the UNHCR and to make sure that people have a way to escape this situation, this unmitigated. 00;26;27;29 - 00;26;28;16 Joan Barker Nightmare. 00;26;28;22 - 00;26;31;10 Joan Barker Into which they've been plunged. So that's what. 00;26;31;10 - 00;26;32;02 Joan Barker I would say on a broader. 00;26;32;02 - 00;26;32;19 Joan Barker Scale. 00;26;33;17 - 00;26;35;28 Liz Kay In terms of that longer term solution. 00;26;36;05 - 00;26;38;22 Joan Barker Yeah. I mean, that's all that we really can do. 00;26;40;07 - 00;26;41;13 Joan Barker There are still some efforts. 00;26;41;13 - 00;26;41;28 Joan Barker To get. 00;26;41;28 - 00;26;43;19 Joan Barker These special immigration visa. 00;26;44;11 - 00;26;45;07 Joan Barker Interpreters out. 00;26;45;07 - 00;26;45;22 Joan Barker I know that the. 00;26;45;22 - 00;26;47;03 Joan Barker U.S. is working with Qatar. 00;26;47;15 - 00;26;51;25 Joan Barker I think it was The Wall Street Journal or I could be wrong in the outlet, but somebody. 00;26;51;25 - 00;26;54;09 Joan Barker Was reporting that Qatar did agree to bring some. 00;26;54;09 - 00;26;56;14 Joan Barker Of these savings in and host them, and I think. 00;26;56;29 - 00;26;58;09 Joan Barker Qatar has agreed to be our. 00;26;59;16 - 00;27;00;29 Joan Barker Envoy on the ground in. 00;27;00;29 - 00;27;03;12 Joan Barker Kabul, since we're obviously not going to send an ambassador there. 00;27;03;24 - 00;27;06;14 Joan Barker But they might act as a conduit to help some of. 00;27;06;14 - 00;27;06;24 Joan Barker These. 00;27;06;24 - 00;27;07;14 Joan Barker Interpreters. 00;27;07;23 - 00;27;11;07 Joan Barker Who did receive their visas and qualified to come to the US. 00;27;11;29 - 00;27;14;06 Joan Barker So I'm hoping that. 00;27;14;25 - 00;27;17;21 Joan Barker We continue to work and use our diplomatic levers to. 00;27;17;25 - 00;27;19;12 Joan Barker To make those kinds of things happen. 00;27;19;25 - 00;27;20;22 Joan Barker And then of course, there. 00;27;20;22 - 00;27;27;21 Joan Barker Is the element of everybody that did make it out and is in the United States. And Americans have been shown overwhelming support. 00;27;27;21 - 00;27;29;14 Joan Barker For these refugees that are. 00;27;29;14 - 00;27;32;29 Joan Barker Resettling. So folks can just Google. 00;27;33;08 - 00;27;34;17 Joan Barker Your local refugee. 00;27;34;17 - 00;27;37;01 Joan Barker Resettlement office. So for example, if it's in. 00;27;37;01 - 00;27;37;11 Joan Barker And around. 00;27;37;11 - 00;27;39;28 Joan Barker PC, Google Providence. 00;27;39;29 - 00;27;40;10 Joan Barker Resettle. 00;27;40;10 - 00;27;44;17 Joan Barker Refugees or Boston Refugee Resettlement, there are organizations in every city. 00;27;44;27 - 00;27;48;29 Joan Barker And municipalities that are assigned to intake refugees, and those are. 00;27;48;29 - 00;27;52;10 Joan Barker Usually Catholic charities or the I.R.S.. 00;27;52;11 - 00;27;54;09 Joan Barker Or Lutheran services. Those are the. 00;27;54;09 - 00;27;55;25 Joan Barker Federally contracted. 00;27;55;25 - 00;27;56;14 Joan Barker Resettlement. 00;27;56;14 - 00;27;57;09 Joan Barker Agencies. 00;27;57;16 - 00;27;59;00 Joan Barker That will be processing these. 00;27;59;00 - 00;27;59;20 Joan Barker Refugees. 00;27;59;20 - 00;28;03;08 Joan Barker And assigning caseworkers to them. So those organizations. 00;28;03;08 - 00;28;04;11 Joan Barker Also do a lot of the. 00;28;04;11 - 00;28;04;26 Joan Barker Good work. 00;28;04;26 - 00;28;06;17 Joan Barker Like clothing. 00;28;06;29 - 00;28;07;23 Joan Barker Drives. 00;28;07;23 - 00;28;09;23 Joan Barker Food donations, offering English. 00;28;09;23 - 00;28;12;15 Joan Barker Classes and job skills classes to these refugees. 00;28;12;23 - 00;28;17;03 Joan Barker And a lot of times that's dependent on volunteer work. I actually didn't mention this at. 00;28;17;03 - 00;28;18;00 Joan Barker All earlier, but that. 00;28;18;00 - 00;28;18;16 Joan Barker Was how I got. 00;28;18;16 - 00;28;19;27 Joan Barker My start really started. 00;28;19;27 - 00;28;20;13 Joan Barker My teaching. 00;28;20;13 - 00;28;23;02 Joan Barker Career officially was working with resettle refugees in. 00;28;23;02 - 00;28;24;20 Joan Barker Downtown Hartford, Connecticut. 00;28;25;06 - 00;28;26;04 Joan Barker While it was pursuing. 00;28;26;04 - 00;28;27;18 Joan Barker That master's degree that I mentioned. 00;28;28;18 - 00;28;29;11 Joan Barker So I was working. 00;28;29;11 - 00;28;30;01 Joan Barker With Somali. 00;28;30;01 - 00;28;30;17 Joan Barker Refugees. 00;28;30;17 - 00;28;36;24 Joan Barker At the time, in 2007 and 2008, 2009, and so I can I. 00;28;36;24 - 00;28;41;08 Joan Barker Can guarantee you that those organizations rely heavily on volunteers and. 00;28;41;08 - 00;28;42;09 Joan Barker You can do a lot of good. 00;28;42;09 - 00;28;42;18 Joan Barker Work. 00;28;42;18 - 00;28;48;06 Joan Barker Just even sitting with people and listening to them and making them feel welcome and not alone because. 00;28;48;06 - 00;28;49;08 Joan Barker It is scary to come. 00;28;49;08 - 00;28;51;08 Joan Barker To a new country and you don't know the. 00;28;51;08 - 00;28;53;02 Joan Barker Language or how things work. 00;28;53;03 - 00;28;53;10 Joan Barker And. 00;28;53;10 - 00;28;54;15 Joan Barker Especially in the northeast. 00;28;54;15 - 00;28;56;17 Joan Barker Like it's cold. So, you know. 00;28;56;17 - 00;28;57;15 Joan Barker Bringing somebody a pair. 00;28;57;15 - 00;29;00;19 Joan Barker Of gloves and like having a cup of coffee with them, like I can promise. 00;29;00;19 - 00;29;01;00 Joan Barker You. 00;29;02;03 - 00;29;02;22 Joan Barker Does wonders. 00;29;02;22 - 00;29;04;18 Joan Barker So if people want to support those. 00;29;04;18 - 00;29;05;20 Joan Barker Agencies and help those. 00;29;05;20 - 00;29;06;21 Joan Barker Refugees here and. 00;29;06;21 - 00;29;08;24 Joan Barker Really feel like they're making a tangible impact. 00;29;08;24 - 00;29;09;21 Joan Barker I would also encourage. 00;29;09;21 - 00;29;12;08 Joan Barker People to do that because it is incredibly. 00;29;12;08 - 00;29;12;28 Joan Barker Rewarding. 00;29;13;06 - 00;29;14;03 Joan Barker And it is incredibly. 00;29;14;03 - 00;29;15;01 Joan Barker Necessary work. 00;29;15;19 - 00;29;28;15 Liz Kay But as you said, it's only half the battle, right? Folks getting folks out of Afghanistan is the first half. But then once they're in whatever new country where they land, getting settled and established, there is another huge hurdle to overcome. 00;29;28;26 - 00;29;38;23 Liz Kay Yeah. John, could you tell us about any experiences like writing for the cowl when you were a student that helped you perhaps prepare you for this advocacy work you're doing right now? 00;29;39;19 - 00;29;42;00 Joan Barker Yeah. So I actually my. 00;29;42;02 - 00;29;46;12 Joan Barker Stint at the cowl was I was a features editor, so. 00;29;46;12 - 00;29;47;14 Joan Barker We did. We published. 00;29;47;14 - 00;29;48;10 Joan Barker Like poetry. 00;29;48;10 - 00;29;52;29 Joan Barker And comics and things like that. And then I worked for a while as the managing. 00;29;52;29 - 00;29;55;22 Joan Barker Editor, which was more like a coordination role where I was. 00;29;55;22 - 00;29;56;09 Joan Barker Helping the. 00;29;56;09 - 00;29;56;23 Joan Barker Different. 00;29;57;08 - 00;29;59;11 Joan Barker Sections of the news and sports sections and. 00;29;59;11 - 00;30;01;04 Joan Barker Everybody like collaborate and coordinate and. 00;30;01;20 - 00;30;02;02 Joan Barker Make sure. 00;30;02;02 - 00;30;02;22 Joan Barker Our marketing. 00;30;02;22 - 00;30;04;16 Joan Barker Was was on point. That's when. 00;30;04;16 - 00;30;05;23 Joan Barker Everything was shifting from print. 00;30;05;24 - 00;30;07;24 Joan Barker Online to. So that was an interesting time. 00;30;08;10 - 00;30;16;05 Joan Barker But I think that was one of my first times working on a team that dynamically so I wasn't necessarily I wasn't a journalist. 00;30;16;05 - 00;30;18;27 Joan Barker I wasn't on the news going out and reporting stories. 00;30;18;27 - 00;30;21;12 Joan Barker But I I like the aspect of working with the. 00;30;21;12 - 00;30;25;11 Joan Barker Team and helping helping the. 00;30;25;11 - 00;30;25;25 Joan Barker Newspaper. 00;30;25;25 - 00;30;27;21 Joan Barker Succeed. So that was. 00;30;27;21 - 00;30;29;03 Joan Barker Really a cool leadership. 00;30;29;03 - 00;30;30;23 Joan Barker Role and a cool teamwork. 00;30;30;23 - 00;30;33;17 Joan Barker Role that those skills I definitely brought into a lot of things that. 00;30;33;17 - 00;30;34;18 Joan Barker I did later in life. 00;30;35;13 - 00;30;42;29 Joan Barker And just being familiar with the newsroom and how it works when I was entering the space back in August, you know, thinking like, Hey. 00;30;43;06 - 00;30;44;13 Joan Barker I want the American people. 00;30;44;14 - 00;30;52;02 Joan Barker To know what's going on in Afghanistan. I want to give a voice to the voiceless. I want people to hear what my friends in Afghanistan are saying. That's getting thrown. 00;30;52;02 - 00;30;59;07 Joan Barker Out in the news. It was intimidating, but I think having had that background of working in a newsroom I had. 00;30;59;18 - 00;31;01;02 Joan Barker I had the courage to just reach. 00;31;01;02 - 00;31;02;19 Joan Barker Out to opinion. 00;31;02;19 - 00;31;03;08 Joan Barker Editors. 00;31;03;22 - 00;31;05;01 Joan Barker And opinion. 00;31;05;01 - 00;31;08;10 Joan Barker Columnists at different newspapers. I mean, for all the stuff you. 00;31;08;10 - 00;31;09;24 Joan Barker Saw printed, I mean, I emailed. 00;31;09;27 - 00;31;11;22 Joan Barker Out to every newspaper outlet in the. 00;31;11;22 - 00;31;13;24 Joan Barker Country and there's a lot of people that, you know, never. 00;31;13;24 - 00;31;14;07 Joan Barker Got back to. 00;31;14;07 - 00;31;15;21 Joan Barker Me. It was such a busy news cycle. 00;31;15;21 - 00;31;18;07 Joan Barker So but I wasn't, I didn't. It didn't deter me. 00;31;18;08 - 00;31;20;20 Joan Barker I just was like, Somebody is going to read this and. 00;31;20;29 - 00;31;30;04 Joan Barker Maybe somebody will print it. And I always ended up finding somebody that would. But it's a very intimidating process, and I don't know that I would have had the guts to do that. Had I not. 00;31;30;17 - 00;31;31;09 Joan Barker Had a background. 00;31;31;09 - 00;31;31;25 Joan Barker Working in a. 00;31;31;25 - 00;31;32;10 Joan Barker Newsroom. 00;31;32;10 - 00;31;34;27 Joan Barker Like the cowl and also just. 00;31;34;27 - 00;31;39;29 Joan Barker Being familiar with those journalists who I said to forget. This was before. 00;31;39;29 - 00;31;41;25 Joan Barker After we started recording, but. 00;31;42;03 - 00;31;48;08 Joan Barker A lot of the folks that I worked with at the cowl have gone on to have these incredible careers and they've done great things. And so. 00;31;48;22 - 00;31;50;01 Joan Barker Being able to reach out to. 00;31;50;01 - 00;31;51;24 Joan Barker Them and say, Hey, do you have contacts? 00;31;51;24 - 00;31;53;07 Joan Barker Do you have somebody that email this. 00;31;53;19 - 00;31;54;12 Joan Barker This op ed to you? 00;31;54;12 - 00;31;55;20 Joan Barker I'm really just trying to. 00;31;55;27 - 00;31;57;08 Joan Barker Save these Afghans and help. 00;31;57;08 - 00;31;57;26 Joan Barker These people. 00;31;58;07 - 00;31;59;02 Joan Barker And they were able. 00;31;59;02 - 00;32;00;18 Joan Barker To really be a good resource for. 00;32;00;18 - 00;32;00;29 Joan Barker Me and a. 00;32;00;29 - 00;32;01;19 Joan Barker Motivator. 00;32;01;19 - 00;32;05;11 Joan Barker You know? So, yeah, it all came full circle. 00;32;06;23 - 00;32;20;15 Liz Kay So I mean, just thinking broadly about your overall career and trajectory at this point, if you look back at your time at P.S., are there any other experiences, classes or specific professors that you feel shaped? You know your your career aspirations today? 00;32;21;17 - 00;32;24;25 Joan Barker Oh, my goodness. So many I had. 00;32;24;25 - 00;32;25;03 Joan Barker Some. 00;32;25;03 - 00;32;26;10 Joan Barker Really, really, really great. 00;32;26;14 - 00;32;27;25 Joan Barker Professors at PC. 00;32;27;28 - 00;32;32;18 Joan Barker And I think. That one of the lasting legacies of. 00;32;32;23 - 00;32;39;23 Joan Barker All those classes from served to the history classes I was taking, I just feel like I was always. 00;32;39;23 - 00;32;41;09 Joan Barker Being pushed to think critically. 00;32;41;19 - 00;32;43;00 Joan Barker And I mean, we read so. 00;32;43;00 - 00;32;43;27 Joan Barker Much and I'm one. 00;32;43;27 - 00;32;52;24 Joan Barker Of these people that likes to analyze a lot of information and see the big picture. So I can't single out a single professor, but. 00;32;53;27 - 00;32;55;00 Joan Barker I did have. 00;32;56;20 - 00;32;58;17 Joan Barker I did have a really good time there learning. 00;32;58;17 - 00;32;59;11 Joan Barker In that way. 00;33;00;15 - 00;33;01;17 Joan Barker It's hard because I. 00;33;01;17 - 00;33;07;07 Joan Barker Got out of PC and it's like, what do you do with like a history degree or a French degree? I didn't have like this hard skill. 00;33;07;15 - 00;33;09;24 Joan Barker But to me, you like being. 00;33;09;24 - 00;33;10;27 Joan Barker A critical thinker has. 00;33;11;05 - 00;33;11;27 Joan Barker Has helped. 00;33;11;27 - 00;33;12;14 Joan Barker Me. 00;33;13;08 - 00;33;14;02 Joan Barker Whenever I go. 00;33;14;02 - 00;33;14;29 Joan Barker Into any of these foreign. 00;33;14;29 - 00;33;18;25 Joan Barker Situations, I'm able to see a lot, a lot of stuff and a little bit of time. 00;33;18;25 - 00;33;21;10 Joan Barker To make sense of a lot of things at once. And that's what that's. 00;33;21;10 - 00;33;23;29 Joan Barker What I think. My point. 00;33;23;29 - 00;33;25;03 Joan Barker Is liberal arts, like a. 00;33;25;03 - 00;33;26;11 Joan Barker Lot of people, have a lot of things to say about a. 00;33;26;11 - 00;33;28;20 Joan Barker Liberal, liberal arts degree and where it can get you. 00;33;29;10 - 00;33;31;29 Joan Barker It's the long game, for sure. I didn't exit. 00;33;31;29 - 00;33;35;00 Joan Barker PC and like, walk into a six figure job. 00;33;37;27 - 00;33;45;06 Joan Barker But you know, I do. I do appreciate that. That PC value that because when I when I. 00;33;45;06 - 00;33;50;24 Joan Barker Got out of high school, I I just wanted to learn. I didn't necessarily have a good career path laid out for me, but. 00;33;52;16 - 00;33;55;17 Joan Barker Things fell into place and and I'm grateful for. 00;33;55;17 - 00;34;12;23 Liz Kay That. So this your PC is also celebrating 50 years of women, the 50th anniversary of women enrolling as undergraduates. So this year, the college is celebrating the achievements of women, faculty, students and alumni. How do you think your gender affected your experience at PC? 00;34;12;23 - 00;34;15;21 Liz Kay If it did? You know, did you have you have any thoughts about that? 00;34;16;21 - 00;34;17;27 Joan Barker Yeah, when you had mentioned. 00;34;17;27 - 00;34;19;01 Joan Barker This question earlier, I. 00;34;19;01 - 00;34;20;10 Joan Barker Was thinking like, I don't. 00;34;20;10 - 00;34;22;14 Joan Barker Remember it being a hindrance. 00;34;22;14 - 00;34;28;06 Joan Barker Or anything at all, in fact, I had to really think my female professors were awesome. Again, I feel so bad because. 00;34;28;06 - 00;34;30;04 Joan Barker It's been I have a horrible memory with names. I can. 00;34;30;04 - 00;34;30;20 Joan Barker See their. 00;34;30;20 - 00;34;31;19 Joan Barker Faces, though. 00;34;31;27 - 00;34;35;18 Joan Barker And I had just some really fantastic female. 00;34;35;18 - 00;34;45;21 Joan Barker Professors and serve and then one of my favorite history professors. So I love the female staff that I worked with and studied with APEC. 00;34;47;05 - 00;34;50;13 Joan Barker I mean, there were some funny things looking back at my. 00;34;50;13 - 00;34;54;25 Joan Barker College experience versus people that didn't go to a religious institution for college. 00;34;54;25 - 00;34;55;26 Joan Barker Like I remember it was. 00;34;55;27 - 00;34;56;01 Joan Barker It. 00;34;56;08 - 00;35;01;14 Joan Barker McAvennie And you know how you had to sign people if a boy came to. 00;35;01;14 - 00;35;07;01 Joan Barker Study with you, you had to sign the women, things like that. And I saw that to other people. Know some. 00;35;07;01 - 00;35;08;15 Joan Barker Funny things. I don't know of that. 00;35;08;29 - 00;35;18;21 Joan Barker It's still like, you know, it's just things that you're like. Right, exactly. So, you know, things that other people are like that really blows their mind. 00;35;18;21 - 00;35;19;01 Joan Barker Or that. 00;35;19;01 - 00;35;19;13 Joan Barker We even. 00;35;19;13 - 00;35;22;27 Joan Barker Had gender segregated dorms. I mean, there were coed. 00;35;22;27 - 00;35;24;13 Joan Barker Dorms, but there still were if you. 00;35;24;13 - 00;35;27;23 Joan Barker Chose gender segregated. And so it's. 00;35;28;08 - 00;35;30;13 Joan Barker Interesting things like that. But again, I. 00;35;30;13 - 00;35;31;09 Joan Barker Never felt like. 00;35;31;29 - 00;35;32;28 Joan Barker For me at the time. 00;35;33;03 - 00;35;35;02 Joan Barker I guess, 2001 to 2004. 00;35;36;08 - 00;35;37;12 Joan Barker I don't know that gender, really. 00;35;37;25 - 00;35;38;16 Joan Barker There was definitely not a. 00;35;38;16 - 00;35;40;05 Joan Barker Negative effect. I'll say that for sure. 00;35;41;16 - 00;36;01;21 Liz Kay Yeah, so we're recording our conversation before Thanksgiving, and I feel like it must be very difficult in the season of gratitude to stay optimistic when you think about the colleagues that we're left behind. How are you staying positive or how are you maintaining hope during these days? 00;36;03;12 - 00;36;05;22 Joan Barker I'm glad you asked that question. It is it has. 00;36;05;22 - 00;36;06;14 Joan Barker Been very, very. 00;36;06;14 - 00;36;10;01 Joan Barker Trying. The team that I. 00;36;10;01 - 00;36;11;21 Joan Barker Am working with, the other Americans. 00;36;11;21 - 00;36;15;05 Joan Barker The veterans, the other contractors, we've we've created a. 00;36;15;13 - 00;36;16;27 Joan Barker Support network for each other. 00;36;17;09 - 00;36;21;02 Joan Barker And continuing to be in communication with them, even if we don't all have good. 00;36;21;02 - 00;36;23;21 Joan Barker News to share with each other has really been. 00;36;24;02 - 00;36;26;03 Joan Barker A rock and. 00;36;27;03 - 00;36;28;14 Joan Barker I think over the holidays. 00;36;28;14 - 00;36;32;26 Joan Barker Some of us have already talked about getting together with each other, especially since it's. 00;36;33;09 - 00;36;36;28 Joan Barker It's hard to be around other family and friends right now that aren't going. 00;36;36;28 - 00;36;43;03 Joan Barker Through this, and a lot of us echoed that sentiment like people just don't understand. And so it's important to be with the people that do understand. 00;36;43;29 - 00;36;45;01 Joan Barker And not to neglect family. 00;36;45;01 - 00;36;47;01 Joan Barker And friends. I certainly. 00;36;47;19 - 00;36;48;24 Joan Barker Share with them when I can, but. 00;36;48;24 - 00;36;49;13 Joan Barker I know when it's. 00;36;50;09 - 00;36;53;04 Joan Barker You know, this isn't what most people are dealing with. 00;36;53;04 - 00;36;54;24 Joan Barker So you kind of have this filter on it, but. 00;36;55;00 - 00;36;56;13 Joan Barker We're there for each other, and. 00;36;56;18 - 00;36;57;22 Joan Barker I think we will continue to be. 00;36;57;22 - 00;37;01;10 Joan Barker There for each other. As far as you know, being there for our. 00;37;01;24 - 00;37;03;16 Joan Barker Friends and colleagues, it's, you know, we. 00;37;03;16 - 00;37;08;02 Joan Barker Do check in on them. It's it's painful. I think October. 00;37;08;02 - 00;37;08;15 Joan Barker Was. 00;37;08;23 - 00;37;10;18 Joan Barker Was when a lot of us kind of came to the. 00;37;10;18 - 00;37;13;07 Joan Barker Conclusion that, you know, a lot of these folks just aren't getting. 00;37;13;07 - 00;37;16;15 Joan Barker Out. And again. We're having to. 00;37;16;15 - 00;37;26;02 Joan Barker Be the ones to tell that to them. You know, they're texting us, they're not texting the president or the people that we're giving press conferences in August and who were making those those big decisions where. 00;37;26;12 - 00;37;27;17 Joan Barker We're the low hanging fruit here. 00;37;27;24 - 00;37;32;24 Joan Barker They have access to us and they're texting us for answers. And so that's why I titled that original. 00;37;32;24 - 00;37;33;22 Joan Barker Op ed Breaking Hearts. 00;37;33;22 - 00;37;34;21 Joan Barker And minds, because my. 00;37;34;21 - 00;37;36;10 Joan Barker Friend Darren, who. 00;37;36;10 - 00;37;37;01 Joan Barker I talk with. 00;37;37;26 - 00;37;38;23 Joan Barker In Afghanistan. 00;37;38;23 - 00;37;44;08 Joan Barker I just remember is having this conversation in August, and we're both in tears. And I was like. You know. 00;37;44;24 - 00;37;46;21 Joan Barker They're not going these Afghans are not going. 00;37;46;21 - 00;37;47;23 Joan Barker To hear an apology. 00;37;47;23 - 00;37;48;17 Joan Barker From our government and they're. 00;37;48;18 - 00;37;49;14 Joan Barker Not going to hear the. 00;37;49;14 - 00;37;50;19 Joan Barker Truth. We're going to have to be. 00;37;50;20 - 00;37;51;00 Joan Barker The ones to. 00;37;51;00 - 00;37;53;28 Joan Barker Tell them that they're not leaving and we're going to have to be. 00;37;53;28 - 00;37;55;00 Joan Barker The ones to break our hearts. 00;37;55;00 - 00;37;56;16 Joan Barker And like, we're, you know, so that. 00;37;56;16 - 00;38;01;01 Joan Barker Was like this phrase in my mind. It's like, that's continue to have to do so. 00;38;02;02 - 00;38;05;10 Joan Barker But I mean. We're still going to push. 00;38;05;10 - 00;38;05;21 Joan Barker Forward and. 00;38;05;21 - 00;38;06;24 Joan Barker Support them in any way that we. 00;38;06;24 - 00;38;07;20 Joan Barker Can, and we're going to make. 00;38;07;20 - 00;38;08;10 Joan Barker Sure that this. 00;38;08;26 - 00;38;10;02 Joan Barker We keep a human face on. 00;38;10;02 - 00;38;12;04 Joan Barker This and that we continue to try to engage. 00;38;13;00 - 00;38;13;04 Joan Barker Our. 00;38;13;04 - 00;38;14;04 Joan Barker Representative. 00;38;14;27 - 00;38;15;11 Joan Barker Our elected. 00;38;15;12 - 00;38;16;06 Joan Barker Representatives. 00;38;16;06 - 00;38;20;07 Joan Barker And our government and try to continue to call for accountability. 00;38;20;07 - 00;38;22;17 Joan Barker And continue to rely on each. 00;38;22;17 - 00;38;22;25 Joan Barker Other. 00;38;22;26 - 00;38;23;21 Joan Barker So thank you for. 00;38;23;21 - 00;38;25;11 Joan Barker Asking that question because it does mean a lot. 00;38;26;11 - 00;38;38;22 Liz Kay Well, John, we will definitely include some of the links to some of your your op-eds with our with our podcast when we share it, so that people want to follow up and learn more about the experiences and the work that you've been doing. 00;38;39;01 - 00;38;42;24 Liz Kay It's been really wonderful. Thank you chatting with you today. Thank you so much for joining us. 00;38;43;05 - 00;38;49;03 Joan Barker Thank you, guys. I hope I was able to offer something insight. I really look forward to seeing you. Thank you so much. 00;38;49;24 - 00;39;01;14 Liz Kay Subscribe to the Providence College podcast in all the usual places, including iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify, as well as your smart speaker if you like what you hear. Please review and share with others. Thanks for listening and go friar's.