Episode 40: University of Washington Pitching Coach Connor Lambert

here and there. So he I think you and here are going to really geek out. So it's an exciting time for Nate. He can't even get a word in because he's so giddy. He's like, you guys can't see him on the pod, but he's like literally in his corner in his garage laughing because he's so excited.

kind of. It's almost a little bit of commuting but being able to stay with some buddies up in Seattle, and it's been good. It's a lot of evaluation, it's a lot of meetings, it's a lot of catching up. Man, It's it's a lot of zoom calls right now. It's time period for college baseball coaches is you know, we just got the ability to start talking to the twenty twenty sixth class, which are juniors to be in high school,

and so it's a lot of phone time. And then once we get into September, we can start having those that class on campus. So you're rounding out your your twenty twenty five class a little bit. You know. I think there's some different dynamics to that with transfer portal, you know, and your twenty twenty five class and that being something it's come full circle at the end of or at the at the end of May next year.

And then yeah, and then the twenty sixth class. You're oping to add a few guys early right now and continue to evaluate. But I mean, it's it's a little bit of a mess. I mean, the NCAA is coming down with different roster sizes right now, what they're going to do with scholarships. You know, courts are deciding a

lot of the stuff right now. I just actually read something on Yahoo our head coach done us something about not not necessary lawsuits, but just things that student athlete representatives are wanting to accept or not wanting to accept. And it's no one knows what roster sizes are going to look like. So like recruiting is truly in the

dark right now, which is just different. Sorry to ramp on, but a new territory for all of us coaches and so that's it means extra conversations that last probably too long about how we're going to do this or how we're going to do that, and just kind of the nature of the beast right now.

transfer portals? What are those conversations look like when somebody enters the portal to you, landing them.

develop them and do that thing. I think that's something that I really specialize in, to be honest, is taking guys that are younger and you know, really helping them mentor them through those those years. And I think that's where I had a lot of success at Portland. Transfer portal. Landscape is just all about money. It feels like nil and what can you do for me? And I get it.

That's a part of it, you know. I think you feel like you can add to your roster, you know, if we have two or three spots open right now in our twenty twenty five class for let's say, what we are projecting as just a thirty four man roster, which is hard to say because who knows, but let's just use that as a baseline. We might just go, hey,

we're going to punt this down the road. You know, we're going to call it good on the twenty twenty five incoming freshmen, and we're going to we're gonna just plan on that we're going to figure out two or three guys in the four thousand guys that into the transfer portal come next to May at the end of May or whatever so, and then rifling through that is just its own beast. I mean, I sat there the summer. There's you know, on the nc DOUAA website Transfer Portal.

It updates daily daily, and if you are actually not paying attention to it daily, it's so easy to get behind.

these guys and figuring out who's good. The problem is everyone probably looks at the similar things and go i mean pictures they go first, like a good picture, answer to portal. It's like the hottest girl opening to go to prom, you know, so it's like everyone lines up take her to prom, and you know, hitters, position players. It's not as if the best ones don't go pretty quick, because they do. But you know, the really high profile names what's his name that went to A and M

from Stanford Montgomery like that drops into the portal. I mean it's within you know, hours. To be honest, it's probably I mean, I'm not saying this happens, but it does seem like it. It's you know, he already knows where he's going before he jumps in the portal and the amount of money he's getting. So yeah, that that navigation of that thing is it's a beast. And that's why four coaches you need. I mean you literally need four or five coaches keeping up five six coaches. I mean,

our operations will be on it. I mean, we'll all be on it together. It's just yeah, it's a lot, but it sounds the useful tool.

eighty eight. You know, he's you know, pretty good and had pretty good numbers, but does that you know, transfer over to the big ten or you know what would have been the Pac twelve Like and then you're just going in on him. But then you're hearing you know, such and such as in on him for one hundred k and il and you're going like, are you kidding me? Like this guy eighty seven miles per our left hander that didn't walk anybody and through seventy innings, like it's amazing.

Stuff like that. It blows my mind in the transfer portal. Like you guys, like you're just this is where it Matt, if we did have transfer portal back in our day, like Johnny Average that throws a bunch of strikes and like has played at a power five, if he decides to jump in the portal, I got like, just you're just gonna get twenty five thousand dollars at minimum. It seems like, wow, it is weird, But I don't know, it'll maybe it'll maybe it'll come to a tipping point.

I don't know, we'll see this thing is ever changing. I feel like I would have made a lot of stupid decisions if some through fifty thousand dollars at me in college. There is a massive piece of this thing that like I'm glad it wasn't around because like I've got to learn a lot about myself in callege, you know what I mean, Like as you know, like my path was not like super smooth and easy and a lot about this on just eat between you and me

and on all our other buddies. But it's just like I needed that, Like some of these guys are going to really miss out on the being told you suck and like they don't ever figure it out. I don't know like I needed it, and I actually think it's the reason why I'm sitting here talking to you guys, Like I don't think i'd be doing this if I transferred and went somewhere that you know, said hey, you're really good.

going to come through me. And so yeah, I'm not going to necessarily see everybody live that we have to go on. I mean, there's some just I mean, I just got off a zoom call with a kid that I haven't seen live, but he pitched it under Class Area Code Games, which is a pretty high profile event. Yeah, our head coach and our recruiting corner saw him, and I went and watch his video on Synergy and it looked really good, and I was like, yeah, this kid's a no brainer, Like we got to let's go off him,

and so we did. But yeah, it's a good question. It's we try to find tooth combent with the pitchers, at least I do, and it's not a perfect science by any means.

I picked up golf when I was like in eighth grade, let's say, and my ball striking is like it's just so hit and mess like it's it's probably like a

fifty percent clip whether I hit it nice. And I was saying, you know, those guys that not necessarily pick up pitching late, just like the guys that just didn't play enough catch to targets when they were three, four, five, six years old, Like I just I think that there's something to that, and they're always playing catch up, and you can definitely, I do think that command can get better.

For sure. I don't have time for it typically unless it's someone else that has made time for it, and then now I'm bringing that guy into my program who's made a leap in his command. I just don't see it happen all that often, especially not if we're recruiting high school kids. Transfer portal might be a little different. I think there's a there's a slight bit more leeway for like walks per nine for transfer portal guys. The

strikeouts have to definitely be up there too. I don't think you can not have that or the whiff and the swing miss or you know, the one pitch that's an outlier. That's I'm going to add and he's going to be here for a year, you know, that's that's that was Sam Stewart what I thought we were going

to get, and we got a completely different beast. But yeah, I think strike throwers that and I also I mean the firmness on the break and bal at a young age is a pretty big feather in the cap for me when I'm watching watching guys, I think is something

that always the velocity is not there yet. It always kind of indicates that there's going to be more velocity guys that have the unique ability to kind of get just enough behind the baseball and still spin it and doesn't need to necessarily be this you know, high schoolers trying to get this profiled, you know, breaking pitch that moves a ton, and then they wonder why they don't throw it in the strike zone enough, And I'm like, well, yeah,

the curveball with like massive movement or it's a slide. It's like they're throwing what it's like resembles a sweeper and it's got so much movement that like, no, like

obviously you can't get it in the zone consistently. So I think I look for a little bit tighter breaking ball and then probably like frame wise, like just you know, I think everyone looks for a broad shouldered, you know, six two sixty three guy with presence on the mound and conducts himself the right way and you know, hustles off and you know, you know, does does things generally without I don't need a big looking me guy, but I'm not going to shy away from you know, again

back to store, like he was yelling at hitters last year and you know, like after you'd strike him out, and you know, I don't that's just him. I think he's just like there's there are certain guys that are just kind of fiery, you know, And I don't think I wouldn't take that as a negative, but it's it's

a good question. I'd say, your athletic pitcher that throws that's repeatable throws strikes someone that I have a really good, really high floor with and then that we can hopefully tap into a higher ceiling when they get into college with much more resources and get on the rapsodo with me or a track man and pitch design and stuff like that where you know, I feel like I have a solid background in we can talk through things and collaborate and you know, read articles and share them with

each other and do that type of stuff and hone those skills. It's the stuff I like to do anyway.

Well with those guys. Again, I think no one likes going to the yard and watching, you know, a bunch of eighteen to twenty two year olds throw balls and struggle, and especially if it's raining up in Seattle or whatever, miserable day at the yard, you know what I mean, Like we want to suffocate letters with strikes, and then we want to do it with you know, obviously enhancing the stuff, whether that be you know, shape or what have you, strength, velocity, all those good things.

correctly how it kind of went. Maybe a bit of a multi part question here, but what do you kind of find yourself talking to your pictures about the most? Do you think? Is it like pitches and analytics, mechanics, training, routines, game plans, anything else? I don't what do you spend most of your time talking to them about? Do you think?

talk a lot about one one counts. We talk a lot about first fish strike, We talk a lot about our leadoff mat out, and then we talk a lot about our process and what that entails, and so you know, I've got a process chart. I also talk to them about the things that I value when I'm a value waiting you, and the things that I know helped us win. So like those three things plus our process start Like my job is to win games along with our head coach.

Everything else is underneath that umbrella. In my opinion, development is obviously really high up there. Like I don't take that lightly. I also don't take lightly being a mentor to these guys. I also don't take lightly the culture piece to this. And I know it's pretty coach speaky, but you know, when I played in the last few years of my career, I felt like I got to be a part of something that was like crazy special to me, and so I try to emulate that for guys.

But the number one thing we're going to talk about is like what actually helps us win games. It's really flashy to talk about mar Velo or our Again I just said our pitch design and stuff that I like to do. Like it's like it's like, you know, that's like a time for me, Like if we've got the time to do it, I definitely want to dive into

it with those guys. It's a big recruiting piece for sure, Like understanding this, the development, the analytics, the pitch design, Like kids want that they hear it, they see it, they want to soak it up, and they want to

know everything you know about that. But again, my job is to talk about what's going to help us win games, and so I need to make sure that we have a great understanding of when we're on the mound, what is our plan and what are the things I should be most concerned with when I'm on the mound, and not you know, anything else when we're on the mound, when we're competing, and so our compete is really important

to me. When we're evalue, like I said, when we're evaluating or when we're having feedback or after action reports, whatever you want to call them, that message is really consistent. I call them our big three, the leadoff men out, the one to one wins, and the first pitch strike. And it probably gets pretty monotonous for those guys, but I want them to hear it so much, because if we are winning in those three categories, we are winning games more than a true Jerry to Poto fashion of

fifty six percent. We're probably winning, you know, sixty six percent of our games if we're.

a guy hits it hard. I get it. But I mean we've got defenders out there, eight nine versus one. I mean that's the mentality a little bit there. So it's like, I get it. It ends up being the same result, but the mentality of it too. You give up a hit, so what we're going to give up

one hit per inning? All right? But you know, I think I want my staff to feel like, you know, Freebie's are just not about not who we're about, you know, And I think that I think you can also slip into a bad place mentally you start giving up Previously, you walk your guy on a three two count. Again, I talked to our guys too. It's like, I mean, you go to let's say, you know your work account, guys,

batt only is tough, whatever, some good pictures. You walk down on three two like it's not the end of the world. We're not going to sit here. And you know, but like you go, you know, two zero to start your hitter, throw a strike three to one, not close ball four, just pypelon. I mean, like, see what you can do in two to one, you know what I mean, see see what they said. I mean, you have no idea what the hit is thinking in the box, Like you might think your shit's nasty, you know. So it's like,

I don't know, I've always that's always been me. But I just like I can't get over you just caved in, Like you have so many opportunities to let somebody else make a play, And no matter what count you're in, I think it's just if you're if you're just like a betting man, right, like if we're in Vegas, like you're gonna put your odds on every single count on the picture, right, I mean except.

that went into it. And I just thought it was funny because it was an age old debate that I agreed with you for the longest time, that like giving up that free pass the walk. Sure, maybe the hitter earned that walk, but more often than that it was probably the picture gave it up.

were way worse, which I thought was really interesting. You'd think, maybe like your earldest Chapman's, your Mariano Rivera's your Josh haters, they give up a lead off walk, and you're like, oh, okay, but there's stuff so nasty, they're probably going to get

out of it anyway. But it actually when they give up a lead off walk, maybe just their stuff is bad that day and they can't hone it back in because they're like one or two pitch pitchers and that they don't have enough to go back to, unlike the guys that Nate and I like with five pitches and know how to pitch and can if one thing isn't working, and they can dial up their sweeper if the change

up isn't working. And I don't know, that's that's maybe my thought about it, but I thought that was an interesting little little nuance to the discussion.

your stuff, whereas like if you're starting. I mean, this is why I think it's just important in general, because when you're starting, you cannot you can let a lead off man get on. You're like, hymn. I'm like, this is my six to fifty sixth inning, like I've been rolling. It's whatever, I'm gonna get a double play. It's like the focus factor for starters comes into play there for

me and I just I try to emphasize that. But to your point, man, I think that there's something to be said, like it's it's it's a really interesting I would have thought the same thing. I would have thought it would went the other way, like hey, I'm Mario and Rivera like I'm just gonna throw twelve straight cutters and get out of the.

Right the down East Wood Ducks winning percentage isn't super detrimental to most people's careers and jobs right right. So I really liked watching like Kith Cavali when he you know, he comes in, he's throwing a big fastball, and then you could see him put the work in on the secondaries and he's just ultimately getting much better as a pitcher right long term, although the right now results aren't

maybe as great as they once were. But my question to he is, I'm curious, on the college level, are there any other times that there's sort of like a natural conflict between I don't know, maybe the developmental course that the pitcher might have in mind for himself versus what the coach might have. Is that is that prevalent or not so much.

I know we're going to help us develop. And so I think that there's a certain relationship there at the couple that coaches have to understand, and there's a certain level of patience. I'm man, I just think I'm pretty competitive, and I it probably hinders me sometimes as as a person because I you know, I'll take you know, losing

to our offense in the fall personal. You know, I'll walk away yard and just like and I'll challenge the pictures and just be like and I'm not saying our offense right now because I haven't seen I haven't seen our offense. But in general it doesn't really matter. I you know, my message would be like, you know, like this is bullshit, Like you guys like these guys are going to walk all over you, like like you're the best staff on the West Coast. Who are the guys

you know what I mean? And like it's literally September, you know, seventeenth. And I try to follow that up with on an individual level of like, hey man, I know we have been talking about this pitch and this this adjustment, Like I see the work there, like don't do not you know, get me wrong, Like I know you're competing. You have a really good compete out there with what you're trying to do. I didn't see bad

body language. I didn't see you give up. I know you were trying to, you know, work on the things that were I think there's a certain like individual level where you have to connect with guys and they have to hear that from you, and then the overarching to the staff has to be like we are not going to succumb to anything, and we're beating everybody that's flat

out what we're doing. So and I don't care if it's you know, our offense or we're facing you know, I don't know, a junior college, or it doesn't it doesn't matter, Like it's it's like to me like that piece like has to be who we are, and then I need them to know that I have the patience. I read a book. I couldn't quote which book it was, but the first thing it talks about and creating Oh it's culture code, that's what It was. A really good book. I've read it, you know, two or three times all

my drives. I just listened to it. The first thing they talk about is just like creating a I know it sounds a little weird or maybe maybe a little snowflaky, but it's like creating a safe space for guys to fail.

I really try to make that happen. I really try to let guys know that, like, failure is just a part of this thing, big Bigley, And I'm gonna put you in situations where I think, you know, there's more likely chance that you fail, and I'm going to give you tasks that are going to be really tough, and that's just going to be a part of your growth

in general. So yeah, we don't quite have the time that you know, uh low a whatever whoever organization, you know, because if our winning percentage is four to twenty five for the next three years, like I'm going to be calling you guys to have me on the pod and just to have talk to So I think there's yeah,

there's just certain urgency levels that are different. But it's just kind of an and especially you know, going back to the transfer portal, like there's less programs across the country that are willing to they want the guys that can do it right now, and they don't know they don't like I get it, like I understand it, Like I mean, you got to make the Cult World series or you're losing your job, you know, And that's what it's all. You know, powerful is like trending towards which is.

like standard, like what the standards are. So one book that I just read that I just love personally is Atomic Havocs. I have that book that I give pictures. The other one is Make Your Bed by Admiral William mccraven. And uh yeah, I started doing this. I started doing this for my first year at Portland. And it's just it's like a it's kind of I don't know, I guess I equate it to like and this by no means am I saying that I am on the level

of John Wooden. But like, you know how the old adages have guys tyler shoes, like learned to tyler shoes correctly before they would go to their first practice, because you know that small habit and that small gill affects the rest of what you're doing right. And so in this book, Sorry I'm getting long winded about this book, he just talks about how making the bed, making your bed can change the world, Like it has such an effect on all the different things you do out throughout

the day. And then you ultimately comes back to if you just have a shitty day, if Lesha haven't made bed, and you can start over fresh. And you know, our guys are going to have a lot of you know, as when you first get to college and as you're going through this thing, man like, you have a lot of shitty days, you know, and then you also have a lot of really good ones. And I think it

stems from the type of habits that you build. And that kind of goes back to the piece of we'll talk about being a mentor to these guys and trying to help them, you know, develop good habits that are going to help them when they're not playing baseball. And you know, being elite at what you do, it doesn't doesn't necessarily need to be baseball. But you know, I think that is really high achieved, high achievement, high achievers.

I try to surround them myself with with those types of guys, I think it's I mean, it shows and my friend group, and I think that's what I try to radiate to our guys, is like you can be that guy in your friend group and you can elevate your boys, and like it's small stuff like this that makes that hat. So here's an actual game plan for how to do that. And no, not every high achiever

makes their bed. I get that, but something that it's just kind of a culture thing, you know, I'll shoot, I mean, as a portent, I used to have guys like send pictures of their made beds into our group chat, you know, and like guys first were kind of reluctant

or just like kind of like dreading it. But then you know, shoot, I've got guys that I coached my first year in Portland still like will randomly send me a picture that are made bed and like at first half, I'm like, that's kind of sick, Like there's some real buy in there. So those are the kind of the two books. I listened to podcasts a lot, and so like one of our buddies just recently sent me one and he it was Greats and Barrels and I was like, oh,

this is new, this is great. I'm going to listen to this, and so I try to soak up the information through that.

I'm just curious what that experience might have been like for you.

two years. He got to Oregon State, really couldn't find his own had trouble, so he was always a little fringy throwing strikes, and then I think just the stage kind of overwhelmed them, and I think he had a lot to work on personally. Yeah, he kind of did that and then he felt like he kind of got the raw deal and that next year, so he decided to enter the transfer portal. And I saw him in

the summer he was pitching for the Corvallis Knights. He looked like a guy that could throw, you know, high importance. Inning's out of our role playing. To be honest, he was throwing a slider at like eighty forty six and it was a gyro Ish slider, but man, he threw it with such high intent that I was thinking, like, we can get a little bit more movement out of that thing. And man, the fastball was good, but it was just armside miss and it wasn't ninety five ninety

seven like it ended up being. It was more ninety one ninety three eighty nine ninety three. And he kind of just made the decision when he stepped on campus after that summer that he was going to be a friend. Like the way he went about his business self starter. I haven't mentioned that yet in talking to you guys, but that is the number one common thing I see in guys that are going to be professional baseball players. And I haven't had a ton, but they are all

self starters. They show up for the yard, they do not need you to sit. I could literally say no words to them, and they are going to get a lot out of their day. And Sammy did that when he stepped on campus, let alone just a practice, and so that guy was in working, He just was working off. He was doing a ton of mound work. He came back when when I thought for Sammy, when he might

really have a shot. I mean, I don't know. He came back after winter break and he was like first live outing, was just sitting ninety six, and I was like like what, like where did this come from? And like the slider's landing for strikes and now he's going like this hammer curve ball for strikes as well, and I was just like geez, So I thought, well, yeah, he's probably got a shot. Dartrell was a walk on.

I wouldn't say I knew he was gonna be a pro right away, but as a freshman, he's just not scared. Like any situation, he'll just kind of what you would described as a dude, big frame, like big body, Like he has this uncanny ability to like impress me in bullpens where it's just like oh, like he came in and he's like, oh, I'm casually nighty one as a freshman in my bullpen. I was like, okay, Like that's a little different than what I thought I was getting.

And then like the next summer he comes back and it's like casually ninety four in his bullpen and the following. So I was junior summer this last year, come back in September, and he's like touching ninety seven, and I'm just like, geez, guy, and he's just it's a product of his his habits and the way he works in the weight room and just who he is. I mean, he's high achiever, four point zero type student, engineer major, like the whole deal. Like the guy is just he's

just a high achiever. And then Nick Brink Brink is we called him like the mechanic, you know, like he was just like he's so I guess you would say right brained. He is just like I'm going to do this, and then like his regiment's going to be I mean, he just like is unbelievably regimented. He kind of came in in high school. He threw, he had he had

good command. He kind of came in his freshman year and I think he was just kind of overwhelmed a little bit, which is very unlike Nick Brink and actually ended up throwing, you know, less than twenty innings his freshman year, had troubles with just like kind of hitting guys and armside misses, and so he went off and played summer ball, and then kind of settled in. And this is like where I see, like, okay, guys that show the ability to throw you know, high level strikes

in high school. They come in, they're a little overwhelmed, you know that, you know, the stage is just like slightly too big for him right now. They get into summer ball, and as they get back to, you know, being who they are, it's a pretty good predictor of like what they're going to be for the rest of their college career. And he settled in, had a really good summer, came back that sophomore year and he was

starting to ramp up the vello himself. He was and this was now intil like this was like the COVID year coming off of like yeah, this was twenty twenty two or yeah, something like that, where we still had COVID rules and play. And anyway, he had a good fall.

He comes back in January, has this really weird deal where he had you know, different guys have to get quarantined and he couldn't throw for a little while, and then he came back and he threw and of course in January February, I'm holding my breath, you know, for

the two straight months. When it comes to injuries, trying to get jash up and stuff like that, and he blows out, he gets TJ, and you know, he it might have been the best thing for him to be honest, like that guy went, I mean, he's just like I said, he's so regimented that he came back stronger. He came back in twelve months. I mean, he he had set a goal to pitch at Texas A and M the following year, which was he said he was going to start actually, which was just like he wasn't a weekend

rotation guy at that point yet. So the guy obviously believed in himself and so he did that. He came back and when he did that, and the way he looked and the way the ball's coming out of his hands so easily after TJ, and I think my AHA moment with him was just in the summer he sent

me some REPSODO stuff or whatever. What if he had set it up and or I went on the profile and saw that he had you know, he was like ninety four meal point six like pretty consistently throughout his bullpen, and you know, his lower half looked like you know, he's walking on two tree trunks. You know, it's just like, my goodness, So he just kind of put it together. I mean when you're in it, when you're in it in the spring, I don't think you realized, Like I don't.

I don't think I realized until about three quarters the way through, like what I was actually watching on like his consistency levels. I was like, this is this guy's a professional, Like it's it's I think it took me about three quarters away I think where I was just like, I mean, he throws a quality start every time. It does not matter, like it doesn't matter how to start, Like first thing, he can give it three runs, like he's going to go quality start, like he's going to

keep it at that. So it was, Yeah, he's just a very very professional way he does his things. And yeah, Nick is a special kid. He did a good job and he's also really high achiever four point zero type students.

they were like, what the hell is coming next. He could pitch off the plate with the slider inside to lefties with the cutter. It's I mean, he was, I thought, one of my favorite college pitchers I've ever watched. So I'm big on Brink. But the other guys were awesome too, And I thought one of the things that you did really well with the staff was that it was never cookie cutter. You were calling pitches for that specific pitcher

against this specific hitter. It wasn't it's two oh, we throw fastball down the middle.

team were like not in love with him. With he doesn't get a lot of ivbs on his fastball. And like the slider is again like what you said, like it's cutter is a slider. It's kind of somewhere in that between. Sometimes it's like wipe out, sometimes a little bit smaller of a mover. He's going to have to figure that out a little bit. But his change up, I mean I've never played catch with somebody where like when he throws his change up, the spin looks exactly

like his fastball. Like I'm like not, like, there's no way you can tell with your eyes that that is like a change up.

why don't we just call fifty percent this next? You know what I mean, Just like I don't know, he actually forced you as a pitch caller to be like on your shit like you cause, you know, I give those guys the opportunity to shake to what they want to do. I want to give them the ability to, you know, throw the convicted pitch and rarely, I mean

brinkhad and shaken me off, you know, almost never. And then he wanted to go to his curveball a little bit more, and he did a really good job because every time he threw his curveball, it's just a take. It's like top of the zone curveball take. And I was just like, not ness, I wasn't just like, I wasn't a huge fan of that pitch. I was like, we're going to throw it, like seven to eight percent of the time. He probably wanted to throw it like more eighteen percent at a time and just true mix.

And I think he probably I mean, he can probably be twenty five, twenty five, twenty I mean, he could do whatever he wants up there. He's actually a surgeon.

little bit of the command issues. And Nate remind me who popped Brink Marlins, that's a pretty good landing.

you know, with the athletics. But we actually talked about that a little bit after his third outing, because I mean, I kind of was just going into any pitch, anytime mentality. He was like, Hey, I feel like I'm just taking on too much. And so I would be like whatever I watched in the pen, if he was layding curveballs, I was like, all right, we're going fastball curveball until I mean we're in a spot where we actually have to go something else. But I think truly it's a curveball.

I mean like, and I don't know if I have this very small sample size on this, because Samy threw on Saturdays for US or on Sundays for US, and they were always afternoon games except for two outings that he had, and I think there's something to be said about Sammy starting in night games might be I mean,

his splits at night. He had an outing in San Diego State and an outing against Gonzaga, and he his k rate was now granted, San Diego State was young and Gonzaga was at the end of the rope in the tournament and so, but his stuff looked just filthy at night. I don't know there's something to it. Brink. Brink doesn't give you anything. He associates on the mount like he's like he just looks like a a serial killer, just like absolutely going to work so a robot in

his big old specs. I love it. But Frank's not going to give you anything, which is great. I mean, it's the guy you want to roll out on Friday. Brink will give you something towards the end of his outing if it's a big pitch and he'll give you a big, fiery let's go. But he's not going to give you He's not going to be it. But if you're, if you're paying attention, like the movement on his slider I think is pretty telling early Like if he's moving that thing how he wants, then he's he's going to

have that early success. It's as it always seemed like, if you know, if you got to Brink like like you do with starters, like got to him early, you know he gave up some I mean his home run like the amount of home runs he gave up this year was I felt like a little bit unlucky considering, I mean the stuff and all the other stats. So he gave us some home runs early on, some like

backed up sliders that just didn't move right. And so but if he's got that thing going pretty early, I think it's, uh, it could be a pretty good outing. And Joey, Joey is probably of the three gotten the most. I'm most curious about what does with him because he is a massive pronator of the baseball. He's going to get so much fun. He loves to pitch the throw the fastball in like he is just going to run

it in on your hands. And I'm really curious what they do with his secondary pitches because I mean, it started to get to the point and in his last year and the last those last year outings where were running like seventy percent fastballs just because he could go in and in and in and he just have a ton of success and then like drop it like a

he was kind of throwing. He was kind of throwing a sweepy slider, which I don't think is necessarily the right thing for him, but it's like what he could repeat. It felt like and then the change up was the pitch and the change up just he just needed more time with it, and he was kind of throwing a little bit of a split change. He's not going to be a splitter type guy, obviously. I don't know if that's obvious, sorry, but it's he's going to be. I think once he gets that going, he's gonna man, it

could be really really good. He's also he also dabbled with forceeam and I'm sure Boston will do that with him, where he's throwing for seam up and away running that two seam. I think. I think that's and I do think that if anyone throws a hundred out of this group, it's going to be Joey Gartral, even though Sammy is probably the closest right now, Like Joey's got a real shot. I mean, the kid is so big, like six ' four and built like an ox, so it's like six

' five maybe. So Joey's the most interesting on that as far as that question goes, like because I'm still probably I don't know. He's he's a competitor, so's he's interesting one.

pitching important innings down the stretch. So having done both and obviously closed in summer ball too, so you've you've kind of worn multiple hats, and maybe from your experience on the mound and then coaching guys who have made some of that transition, how do you think about that.

He throws, he's high, like he's max intent, like he you know, he throws a razor blade slider lands this curve ball every once in a while, but it doesn't quite throw en off strikes. So get him in there, and if he's not feeling it, then we're going to get him out. And I think, like the thing that I learned from that is that like Sammy was really like he is, the way he prepared his catch play.

His strength. He wasn't He's not like the biggest guy, but his ability to his endurance, his arm endurance was probably the reason why he was able to It's not like he was dropping off and like throwing ninety six in the first, throwing ninety one in the fourth. He was just still throwing ninety six. And to me, it was like he needed to be right around sixty percent

strikes with his fastball. He needed to be just above that with it with one of his Well, for Sammy, it probably need to be above that with both of his breaking balls. But I don't think that you necessarily at the college level have to be a three pitch guy, four pitch guy. Whatever. Obviously, if you have just a really above average college level stuff, and especially if one of the pitches is like elite college level stuff, like

you can really ride that against college level hitters. But like in Sammy case, like I mean, he he had three I would probably call them the league college level pitches, but it came down to his ability to like land those for strikes, and so like I paid attention more to like I mean I could, I wish I could show you, but like it's like you could literally look at Sammy's oud and go, like, oh, those two breaking

balls for strikes. That was a good outer, Like he was marginal right there, that was probably an out and he didn't go more than five innings, you know, And so I mean I think we I mean, I think we ran top three in quality starts in the nation last year. So it's like, yeah, I mean I think I talk a lot about that. So like, to me, like the ability to get to that quality start to me is like, yes, of a marker, And I tell our starters like that is your job. You can give

up your three runs whatever. But I need like the more we can shorten the game at the college level. I mean, because at least in my time at Portland, and you know, I mean, I think it's anywhere. It's like you've got two, three, four guys that you really trust, you know that you're like and like, who knows if you just came off playing a Tuesday game and he thirty five bitches help you win this against you know, whatever school. And so that quality start piece is pretty hard marker for me too.

traditionally as impressive. But the thing that Dana has done really well this year is show that he can go deep into starts and it's not necessarily on the back of gaudy strikeout totals or anything. It's he's a pitcher and he gets his stuff done. So I've given Nate a hard time and said it's more of a merry go round pony, but he's been really impressive for a twenty.

You know, there's a big motivation to strike everybody out, but you know that could possibly be more physically draining for you. I mean you, I was just looking today. I think the average played appearance in the major leagues where a strikeout is like almost six pitches, whereas inducing weak contact is like three and a half pitches, right, So you're just literally working harder to strike guys out. But yeah, I just I was just curious your thoughts

on like pitching the contact sort of things. And if this rule change did take place, I don't know whenever it does three or four years later, do you think that trickles down and changes your jobs?

three innings aren't always controlling a lot of this, you know, me and me and Matt have actually talked about this fair amount, like a true process chart at my level, and like it's not really like a true true process right, Like I'm talking about getting outs and like you could throw a bad pitch and get an out and that's not a good process, but like you know, it's a good outgun. But yeah, the efficiency thing is to me is like you know, throwing one of first two pitches

for strikes, like getting ball in play. I talk about a lot. To be honest, I rarely talk about strikeouts. I track the stuff that helps us get there for sure, and the things that we definitely talk about that put us in position to get strikeouts. They kind of again have a relationship and they kind of go hand and hand.

The more two strikes you put yourself in like, the more strikeouts you're gonna you're gonna get and as a staff, but it's not the end all be all, and truthfully, within this process chart, I mean stir one up against this. Really in his very first outing in San die State, he struck out thirteen, went five innings, walked one or two, gave up no runs, and like two hits and it

was a very middling processed chart game. You know, it was like not rewarding him at all for absolutely, I mean that's he dominated, right, He just like no one was hitting stuff. But he was at his pitch count before six innings, which is like, hey, Bud, like you're throwing on Saturdays the Sundays, like our bullpen spent. We need you to go into the seventh or we need you to get in the sixth of the very minimum. I just think it's good baseball at the end of

the day. Like chasing strikeouts too hard, you know, I think it can leak into my pitch calling, and if I start doing that, like I start to become really inefficient with with what I'm doing, and I think it sends the wrong signal. I just I want to put our guys in positions on the mound to attack weaknesses if we can of the hitter and hopefully they're they're end cap in you know, putting the ball on the

ground or easy flyball or whatever it is. So that's definitely like what we talk about for sure, what I will talk about. But I would say, like it it's hard because there's a relationship piece of this. You need strikeouts, Like this is like you have to have strikeouts. You have to have strikeouts there. You want to be a good staff, you can't not strike guys out at least, you know, at least a strikeout for inning at the minimum.

You got to be better than that too. So I think we just really celebrate when we have those really efficient innings and talk about that, like, hey, that's a big time inning. He maybe got a strike out in it. Maybe you didn't, but like you threw thirteen pitches or less than that inning, that's massive. The more we can get to those, the more we're going to be you know, we're going to be pretty good. So and the second part of that question, after I just rambled on right there, was I.

guys who can go length. Maybe that will motivate the teams to reward them monetarily and thus maybe changed the whole process for aspiring professional pitchers.

especially on the mound. And then Connor, over the course of his seven years at the helm of the pitching staff, that pitching staff like it is wild to track and these are all like public numbers you can go look up, but Connor every single year improved the staff's fit, fielding, independent pitching, which meant the strikeouts went up every year. And did you have a record number of strikeouts each of the last four seasons for the pilots.

walks allowed went down every year. I mean, the guy with unheralded pitching staffs casts off from the other rotations. I had scouts in the stands this year, you University of Portland tell me that this staff that Connor had assembled was bar none the best in the entire Pacific

Northwest region, like the region that these scouts covered. And I think that's a testament to the things that Connor's talking about, focusing on process, trying to learn what makes you successful, and then keeping it simple, because you can't be thinking about a million things when you're trying to do one of the hardest things in the world. Throw

throw a little ball into a little little spot. So, I mean, Connor is clearly really really good at this and you know, personally as his buddy and as a seven year Portland Pilots fan, I'm stoked to see him ascend.

who do I want to turn on and watch? Then you know, I'll dig around on fangrass, look at a percentages and maybe some trends and things like that. But I'm really just I'm really just an eyeball guy, and I get that that misses a lot of things, but I also think it can catch things that spreadsheets take a while to catch up to. And I really like watching the Like I said, prior to the development of a guy, what's this guy working on? What's his what's

his plan? What is he trying to achieve this outing? What what's he trying to achieve with this pitch? And what is he doing it well or not? And you know, for me with pros, I like to lean towards the I want to find the good picture, man, and as blurry as that might be, Like certain kind of athleticism, I like to joke around about like the Mussina Index like their ability to come up with pitches because a lot of the times stuff can jump, especially when you

become a pro and stuff. So I like to look for the other things the pitch plus models do their things and that information come up. But yeah, I just like watching guys kind of.

and bragging rights and all of that good stuff. But that's increasingly harder and harder to do because everybody has the same tools to evaluate guys, and there's lots of really smart public analysts out there. And one of the things that has been fun with Nate and me is giving yourself added constraints, so saying not just I'm going to look at all the top guys and argue about

who's better Emmanuel Rodriguez or Walker Jenkins, for example. I have opinions about those things, but that's not really where we play. What we're trying to do is find the guys that maybe are unheralded, and for me, a lot of times that does mean looking at the basic rudimentary stats. At this point in the sabermetric era, of like K minus bb rate because it's the thing that stabilizes well,

it predicts performance well. I also love ground balls. I think that those generally tend to portend good things for hitters or for pictures. I also like weird pitchers, like finding those profiles that don't look like the rest of the bell curve right. Like you know, we used to talk in college about we're facing Johnny right hander today and he's eighty eight to ninety two with the straightfor seam fastball, and it's eighty to eighty four slider, and

then he has a show me change up Johnny right hander. Like, how many of those guys did we see? I don't even remember their names because they all blended together. And then you see a guy that has some funk, that has like a different arm slot, that is coming at you with a cutter and a slider and a sweeper and those are three separate pitches, but to your eye, they all look the same out of the hand, and

those guys can be a lot more challenging. And you know, so some of my favorite guys that I've kind of unearthed in the combination of looking at the stats and then watching him pitch, is guys where it's like that guy is doing something different and he's getting results, but it's showing up in a way that is totally different

to a lot of the other guys out there. Like one of the guys that Nate and I have talked about is this starting pitcher for Toronto for the Blue Jays, and we saw him just very briefly in Hillsborough last year, like one video inning, but he had shown some interesting stuff in his stats. And lazarro Estrada just has had an awesome year this year, and he was like nobody wanted him even in our super super deep dynasty leagues. No, he wanted him, but because he was old for the level.

He'd been bad before. But I thought he was doing like something weird. And then you watch him and you're like, he has this enormous curveball, like one of the biggest that I've ever seen, and it looks just like his super high ride fastball. He just couldn't really throw it for strikes. But he was like a pitch or two away from finding stitching all of those things together, and he probably hasn't fully done that yet. But the thing that I get the most joy of isn't just finding like, oh,

my stats say this guy is interesting. It's pairing that with how weird.

strikeouts or contact. And it's a little tricky, like we were talking about before, there's kind of like, well I refer to like kind of plastic arms versus like, you know, stuff made out of metal with this guy, and I try to think, like next eight years, who do I want to put money on, like can adapt and a Justice game once he gets to the real point of development in the majors, you know, and that might be that might be a fool's errand I don't know, but that's what I try to geek out on.

the stuff says. You can obviously go look at the numbers. That's that's kind of the easy part, like to what you guys are saying, and sometimes that tells the story, right, and but like sometimes it's the different weird release angle. It's the you know, the low release with the high

high ride fastball. It's the deception. It's you know, you do kind of have to put your hands in the dirt you wanna unearth, you know, somebody that maybe didn't you know, and even even more true at the college level, where it's like he was a freshman last year in Collegehere he is even a sophomore who threw minimal innings

as freshman year, Like can this kid explode? And am I like because you're one to two of those guys on your staff away from having massive year, because you probably already have a few guys like that on your staff, and so you're now bringing a couple of those guys in. Now you've got seven, eight, nine guys that you're like, this guy is a little bit different from the next to speak to what Matt was saying and how we

did it with different types of looks. I am a big fan of not giving a hit or the same

look from like what our starter was doing. Like I almost strictly bring in somebody that is way different from the guy that they just saw three of bathroom and like, whether that's just how his fastball moves to you know, it's not always just like left handed right handed, but like if this guy's running, you know, a ride fastball with a sharp slider, like I'm going to probably bring in my guy that's got a little bit more of a change up and he's running more of a two

seem just to to give a different movement profile. Collecting those types of guys here you guys talk about that's actually, i mean, really interesting. You guys obviously collect them on death charts and stuff like that, and so there's actually a piece of what I feel like I'm doing and trying to capture like that a little bit on rosters kind.

And you know, me and Matt played in the north Woods League together and I got to do We did for two summers and I got to do pretty much every role in my two summers out there, and I get to be a starting pitcher. I got to be a closer, And being a closer was like the coolest job there ever. Was Like you just like come in with the games and then like your your success is predicate it on like three outs when it's hardest for the hitters to hit anyway because you you've got all

the stuff and pressure is all on them. And then like you just win, and like everyone's like slapping you on the button. Like the meanwhile, the hitter that had you know, like you know, a couple of knocks and had a decent game but didn't really have like a true effect, like they're feeling good about themselves, but like, good job, buddy, do it again tomorrow. And then you know it's like, oh, we got to save.

were very fun. He was This was the worst season that the franchise had had, and we blamed this coach like he wasn't very good, and you know, some of it was the roster was a little bit thinner than we'd had in previous years, but he I don't think did a very good job getting the most out of the team either. And we were on a bit of a run at the end of the season.

in college, this is summer Bowl. Connor and I hats this plan that we're gonna get one of our teammates to distract our head coach. And Connor, who's you know, been with the team for two full years, fan favorite, like everybody loves him, been our closer. We're gonna get him in that bat and I'm going to walk out on deck circle and pretend, but Connor's actually getting ready.

He's got the gloves on, wearing somebody else's helmet, borrowed one of my bats, and he's hiding up the ramp up to our our locker room so that the coach can't see. And so we enlist our giant ass first basement to like go stand in front of our head coach and block him off so he can't see. I get announced to go out to bat, and then I like turn wave up to the press box and then point to Connor and I walk off and they announced Connor, and so Connor comes out and he's like they've announced him.

He's he's up there ready to go, and our first basement at this point had put our head coach like in a bear hug and was like carrying him around like trying to joke with him. And he hears this and he lipped. He lost it on us. He goes running out to the umpire demands that Connor get back in the duck out waves at the press box to re announce me, which is illegal. You can't put me back in the game. I'm already I'm already out of

the game. But it was because we were it was tied or we were down on maybe I think we were down one at the time.

love McAdoo. Be this Like, I'm right on these guys all the time, but there is something different, like when you're like you just you can just like almost feel it, like some of these guys that step in the box. I'm just like, man, that's that's different. That's hard to call pitchers too. He doesn't just like you drop lighters on the outer half and chase. You know, it really comes down and as you guys know, is like he doesn't chased a lot. He hitches. He hits pitches in

the zone hard, and he's really athletic. Not super shocking. You know.

But he you know, he paid a little bit too much in college. That's why I think, because the power is pretty ridiculous. Like, I don't know how he's doing pretty well? Is any I think he just made a job.

I wouldn't have a take on whether he's a professional hitter or not, but like, it does seem like he probably thinks a little too much of the Like I just I feel like I could outguess him, you know, thinking back to his abats, Yeah, some of his reactions I could see that kind of yeah, some of his reactions to like.