Is technology making things simpler or more complex for financial advisors with Adam Owen

So grab a coffee , sit back and let's get ready to blast off . I'm your host , François D'etoy . Welcome to the show . It's been a while . I think you were on the show in season one , which is many , many , many years ago , like four years ago .

So , yeah , we're excited with where we are and the show is evolving every single year , so we're excited about that . But , adam , let's get into the conversation , because this , for me , is a big one and I want to take as much time as we possibly can , because we actually got extra time because I kept the announcement so short .

So I want to sort of jump into this , because the main thing at the moment is like our whole theme for this year is around simplifying and one of the big things is that if we start thinking about technology and we sort of see where things are going and how quickly it's going , like I'm feeling overwhelmed .

Somebody who loves tech and that lives and breathes tech is finding it . I can't keep up . So if I'm feeling like that , I'm pretty sure that a lot of other people is maybe not so into tech it's feeling it even worse . But now my concern becomes around so what is the impact going to be of all of this technology ?

Because we are always talking about how to use technology to make your life easier , how to automate things , get back your time , be more efficient , be more productive , whatever that means for you in your world .

But the big question around that and it means for me , like you know , I mean where we're headed with this like is this a good thing , you know , and should we look at it maybe from a point of view like what's happening in the short term ? Or should we look at it what's happening in the long term ? Or like are you thinking about this at the moment ?

The future is most definitely uncertain , because we are on the edge of something potentially incredible and exciting and changing from a whole global perspective , but then , on the flip side , that's a lot of change and a lot of uncertainty , and the unintended consequences are almost immeasurable and unimaginable .

You know , there are so many different ways that this scenario can play out .

So some mornings , francois , I wake up and I think you know what this technology and the developments and everything that we're looking at will give us huge advances in medical science and will give us the opportunity to do things that we actually would have taken decades or centuries to achieve , and it will accelerate the pace of our understanding of everything .

And then , some days , I'll wake up and think I wonder how long we are before our machine overlords are actually ruling over us , and we wake up in the morning and just get told what to do all the time , and even as I'm speaking to you now , I have a machine sat just next to me I can't mention its name because it will start ordering shopping or something

like that for me , but I have a machine sat next to me that is listening in all the time , and we've integrated technology , and so the hardware is sat in many homes , isn't it ? And even now , what we're doing right now , we're broadcasting on the internet .

So everything that I'm saying is now being captured on the internet , and that is now fair game for OpenAI and any other large language model to actually look at what I'm saying and take my ideas and anybody else's ideas who's talking on the internet today ? Millions and millions of people and to consolidate that in just a few mere seconds .

So the possibilities are endless and unimaginable . We consolidate all of that data , but then , of course , on the flip side , the biases are all there as well . These bias and everybody's maybe not quite societal norm thought that is going out into the internet is being captured as well , and all of these things get wrapped up in the mix .

So slightly excited , slightly terrified , francois , in terms of what this then does to our profession and the medium of financial planning ? That's a really interesting question .

But I hardly ever stand still to think about but what's the flip side to that , what is the opposite of that ?

What is that also doing and this is sort of a big question that I maybe have for you now is that you think about like you and I we develop financial advisors and planners and like we're there to support and help them go to their next step and sort of achieve great things and build great businesses and all of those good things .

I mean , that's been our world for a very long time . And I'm quite curious to sort of think about , like what is the role of that person going to be , of that financial planning professional going to be going forward ?

Is it going to be because , on the one extreme , you have just maybe these things are taking our jobs and on the other hand , no , it will never be , because it can't do X , y and Z ? So I'm quite keen to sort of maybe just hear your view around that .

Where are we , at least in the short to the medium term , on that specifically , like , what's the role of the human advisor going to be in the short to medium term , with all of these AIs and terminators running around and all of that ?

Well , it feels like we're

already in September . We've got through so much , we've done such a lot , and I think we're beginning to see the impacts of utilizing AI technology but doing it in a way that isn't mindful .

And I think that the danger is , if we train these large language models in a way that isn't mindful , then the result that we get ends up being something that we don't necessarily want , and what I mean by that is that it used to be that if I wanted to write a report for somebody , then it would take me X amount of time to write a four page report .

Now , if I want to , I can use AI to write a 26 page report . I can write a board paper that goes into great detail . In the same time , it would have taken me to write bullet points of four pages , but the fact that I can do it , and it's a little showy offer you to be able to do it , isn't it ?

But the fact that I can do it doesn't necessarily mean that I should , because at the end of this 26 page report , or this email output that's going out to people that wasn't there , or this new newsletter , or this new show that's got a new script that has been written by AI technology , or these 15 new shows because , of course , we can do almost endless

things now and all of this other data and content and information that is now being produced . If 20% of the financial planning population produce 20% more content simply by using AI , we're not really considering that the people who are receiving that content have got to find the time to read it .

And if they are actually wanting to find the time to read it , what are they doing with the rest of their time ? What are they doing with the things that they were doing ? What is having to give in order to keep up ?

So we're noticing that responses to things that might have taken a little longer now happening a little quicker in many circumstances , aren't they ? You say to somebody design me this or write me this or produce me this , when it's a video or a podcast or whatever it might be . Then people jump in and think AI tools .

But there's a natural rhythm that we are in at the moment and that natural rhythm involves let's have a meeting , let's organize something , let's give a project time , lead in , let's do the project . Then we can come back to review the results of the project at this date in the future .

Well , if everything is shorter , then we don't have time to do the other things we would have been doing in the meantime . And at the moment , the focus for many seems to be on output rather than on the time , but rather than on inputs , rather than producing or finding technology that helps them deal with the quicker and higher volume of content coming back in .

And I think that , though unbalance at the moment is or my working hypothesis currently is that that imbalance is really the thing that is driving this feeling that hold on a minute things are moving incredibly quickly in 2024 . And if we don't start thinking about how we deal with the the incoming , then I think that is only going to become more extreme .

You know , it's sort of a I don't know if it's a habit or it's just how we wired or if it's just you know , because I think that is that must have a lot to do with it like I can do so much more and I can do it so much more quickly .

And also the other thing that I am worried about in the sense at the moment is the quality of the output as well . So , apart from the input , that becomes very overwhelming and you can't deal with all of that . The person receiving it is like what is the quality ?

And also , like you think about this , you know , I mean , I think we we actually dumbing ourselves in some sense , right , and it's like when anybody asks you anything , you sort of rush off and go and look at Google , or you go to chat GPT or Bing , or you know you start asking questions around things like we don't learn anymore . Because why do I need to ?

I can just quickly go and search for something , which is another phenomenon , and it's something that I am a little bit concerned about , you know .

I mean there's lots of talk that maybe universities are not going to have a place somewhere in the future or that kind of education , rather than we say that and because we've got these different ways and there's the micro learning and there's , like you know , just in time learning and it's all these things , so I just need to learn it when I need it , like if

I don't need it , why would I want to learn it ? Almost kind of thing . So those are also things that are that are a little bit top of mind for me with regards to this . I don't know , maybe Jevony thoughts on that before we get into the short and medium term implications as well , because I need to talk about that .

But but I mean just some thoughts on on that what is the quality at the level of all of this vast amounts of output that we're creating ?

. Now , of course , we all know that the level of accuracy is questionable , and particularly when it comes to things like financial calculations , tax , all that sort of stuff .

You can't rely on AI yet to do all of those things accurately for you , so you have to know what you're talking about in order to generate something that you are confident to be able to send to your clients . But you're right , francois , we're not necessarily thinking about what the client experience is .

You know a lot of financial planners will thought fantastic , I can send out a newsletter to my clients now because I can use an AI tool to do . I've always wanted to send out a newsletter . Have we actually sat and thought about ? Do our clients want to use like ? Have we asked them if they feel like there would be a benefit from a newsletter ?

Are they suddenly being inundated by multiple newsletters from all of these services that they've been using for years that can now suddenly deliver a newsletter , and quickly ? It becomes a little like an arms race , doesn't ? Everybody is using AI in order to generate more content , so nothing really changes .

We're not differentiating ourselves in a marketplace that's quite crowded because everybody is doing it and somebody sees another company using firm doing X and they think , well , we should do X , and so everybody very quickly catches up .

So where the the short medium term is , I think is the short inter medium term , is a space where the majority aren't actually using the technology to do it mindfully , and what we're doing is that we're reacting and we're trying new things out , but we're experimenting on our client relationships and that's , for me , quite a dangerous thing .

You know , trying new things out with live clients that we actually want to build a relationship with needs to be done very carefully and needs to be very carefully considered , but it's so easy to do . I think many won't necessarily consider whether they should do something . You know we're all thinking can I do this ?

But are we thinking should I do this and what value is it delivering ? You know we've been talking already this morning about value and is there value in it ? And that's really , for me , the big question .

So quality will be variable , but quality and anything is variable , but more of it will actually be easily forgotten as well , and so if you're going to stand out now , the standard won't be producing a newsletter every week , because everybody can do that easily . So what are you going to do differently ?

How are you going to use the mechanism of AI to do something that nobody else is doing in your space , that is tailored entirely for your target clients and that delivers them 10 times value ?

I think the biggest you know mistake we make often is that we think we know our clients . Adam , we think , because I've had a 10 , 15 , 20 year relationship with someone , that I know them . I know what they're going to say yes to . I know what they're going to say no to . I know what they like . I would know what they don't like .

But if you think about the , the number of interactions that we really have with clients , you know how often do you actually speak to that client ? Just because you've been on my books for 20 years , I wonder how many times we've actually had a proper engagement and a proper , you know , encounter with each other .

And if you really look at that , you realize that you , we don't know much about these lines . They might have told you a lot in some of these meetings etc . But their lives keep keep evolving , it keeps changing . You know , these things that happen .

I know that if I haven't spoken to somebody for three months , the amount of things that happen to them often in those three months is mind blowing , like you can't even imagine that those things . So much has changed in such a short space of time . And we've got to keep on asking our clients about what are they looking for ?

Because they are evolving , they are experiencing things in other areas , from banking and maybe from I don't know , like shopping from Amazon , and if Amazon can just open in South Africa now , that will be fantastic .

But whether they shop on , take a lot , you know , or however they do , they they're going to experience new things and they're going to require us to sort of why can't we do that for them ? And also , you know , sometimes we think about how personal financial planning is .

When clients are , maybe some of them are going to push for more digital sort of way of working and more you know based on technology and things , and have more access to things .

And we can then keep control of that relationship , because the problem is that these technologies , you know , and the more human like they become , because that's the thing , right so they may not have empathy , but they may demonstrate empathy and that's pretty much from a human perspective , probably the same thing for many people .

And and how do we , how do we keep control of that , you know sort of ? You know , how do we make sure that we really focus on the relationship and not on the planning , not on the technology and all the other things ? It's really like that hot to our connection with it . Like , how do we see , like any ideas on that , adam ?

People will want to connect with people , and that's the thing that will actually make financial planning different from all the other things that can be replaced by AI . I don't believe that is the case . If I'm really honest , I believe very firmly that AI will be at some point , or at least we talk about AI like this is a more first thing .

The outputs from large language models and AI tools etc . Will be so human like that we will not be able to understand that , and that is my core , central belief , and so I won't know whether I'm talking to you , francois , or you as an AI .

If you really wanted to develop that to the nth degree At the moment the sort of AI tools that we have available to us you can tell it's AI . You know we look at our AI newsreader on the tech show that you and I produce , francois .

It's very much clearly AI , but I think we'll reach a point where we won't know the difference or we'll be able to tell the difference .

So this idea that AI won't have empathy or won't be able to at least emulate empathy in a way that we can't tell , you know , just like other human beings can emulate empathy in a way that we can't tell if they aren't feeling empathy , the exactly the same will be the case , I believe , with the technology . So why does that then leave us ?

How do financial planners differentiate ? Well , the technology large language models accesses everything and all human thought . That has already existed , doesn't it ?

And so that is its current limitation is that , at the moment , and at least for the foreseeable future , it doesn't have original thought , and for me , that's the thing that will differentiate what we do as financial planners from what AI tools can do .

It isn't the fact that we can show empathy , because an AI tool will ultimately be able to reach levels of artificial empathy that exceed human empathy expression . Now , right now , we have AI tools that can better diagnose certain cancers looking at scans , and humans can . So we know that AI tools can exceed human capability in many fields .

But critical thinking and innovative thought and original ideas although not out in the internet , just yet they are the things that will differentiate us .

So , more and more , learning how to deploy critical thinking in everything that we do in our business and really practicing that and I keep saying mindful practice of these things , mindfully practicing critical thinking and generating new , innovative things that are targeted and focused and highly focused on our target audience , that is a thing that I believe will

differentiate us and will ensure that financial planning continues in the form that is , which is human interaction , because otherwise it's simply a series of AI tools just talking to each other and we can all step back when we think about compliance , francois , then very shortly I will develop to the point at which it can file check more accurately than a human can

file check and can look at suitability of advice and determine whether advice is suitable against all of the regulatory requirements in just a few seconds .

And then there'll also be a tool that , because if AI has developed a tool that can check files and check suitability , then AI will also develop a tool that can write reports and create , incredibly , compliance advice .

And so that's just one AI tool creating something that another AI tool checks , to the point at which , at some point , surely we're going to sit down and say well , we don't need to check it anymore , because the AI tool is accurate to a level that everybody is happy . A lot of it will mean that there are a lot of these roles that won't exist anymore .

So , again , going to the fact checking , and you know it'll have access to all that information .

So already you know , although Microsoft co pilot is a more generic type of tool that we can use , you know there might be like there's a lot that we can do with that already , like you know , and you can train it because there's lots of things you're going to want to get into that Already that is happening .

I think the biggest takeaway from what you've said in this , in this part of the conversation , adam , for me is we've actually got to be very aware and very intentional about what we do with that time that we get back , because we can fill it up with anything and do more of the same , which is not the thing .

You said something that really jumped out at me , which was we can expand our minds , we can sort of get thinking again and we can sort of think like that critical thinking and just because that's the only time you really create if you do nothing actually like you gotta be .

But if we forever do all these things , I don't come up with new and exciting ways to do things . So we've got to be very cognizant of the fact that when we get time back , what are we doing with it ? We've got to be . One of the biggest things I think is and the most difficult thing for me is to say no to things and to people .

When people ask me for things , I tend to say yes because innately I want to help , but it's detrimental to me in many cases because I don't get to things . Now , that's the thing with this .

So I can fill that time and do triple what I used to do , but it's triple of the same thing instead of doing the things that I actually were longing for to do because I got my time back . So that was just an important point I wanted to add to that .

I just want to sort of highlight here , because there was something you said which I should have brought on the comment at that point because it was so exactly so . Frank is quoting Albert Einstein here saying I fear the data technology will surpass our human interaction . The world will have a generation of idiots . So I'm not gonna comment further on that .

But it's basically what we said , right , because we become non-thinking , just like the machines does everything . We just ask whenever we want to know something , and then no context , no deep understanding , we just move on and we just give an answer . So that's important .

Russell was saying remember , sometimes using too much tech to put a correction , to make things simple for the client can actually do the reverse , and I so agree with that , adam . I mean , that's such a dangerous thing where we almost implement tech for the sake of implementing tech and it seems so cool . It's one of the things that I've always said .

We've got to be so careful when we are putting , let's say , we create processes and workflows and things like that . We often , with those things , focus too much on what works for us and what makes it easier for us , and not what's making it better for the client . What's making it easier for the client , and sometimes those things don't play together .

So making things simple for the client makes it harder for us . But isn't that like exactly what business is about , adam ? I mean , what do you have a view on that ?

I was chatting with a firm just the other day and their reports are now taking 10 minutes when they used to take two hours , and so theoretically , that frees up a lot of time .

But if you aren't laser focused on your ideal client and you're just thinking right , well , that means we can go and take on more clients , then are you taking on the right set of more clients ? When you're taking on more clients , are you sat there thinking about a strategic plan ?

Are you thinking about how you scale your business in an effective way to actually gain the benefit from deploying these tools rather than just creating more future problems ? Are you considering the unknown unknowns ?

And that , I think , is where we do need to take time to really think about this , because we can very quickly be carried away on a wave of I've got so much more time , I'm now gonna fill it with much of the same , rather than saying I've got so much more time , I finally got the opportunity to make this the business that I want it to be and to make my

experience in life , in running this business , the way I really want it to be . And I do fear I don't fear AI , particularly Francois , in spite of everything that I've said , because I think humanity is always very good at understanding what is important .

I don't think individuals necessarily are but that's maybe a conversation for another day but collectively I think we are . But I then think that if we let ourselves get carried away , then there's potential for a lot of regret and a lot of people thinking well , actually I still haven't got the business that I wanted it to be .

And if you're in the business that you want it to be and you're working with people that you want to work with and clients that are absolutely on your wavelength , then you will deliver a better service for them and you will have innovative thought and you will do all of the things that they would want you to do .

If you just take a moment , but actually , if you suddenly find that there's more time and just fill it with more of the same , without challenging whether or not that's really what you want , then I think we'll see a lot of practices expanding but still generating , because we only have a certain amount of capacity as humans .

This is the one limitation in all of this we have a finite amount of time and the computing capacity might ultimately be near infinite , but we aren't , and we still only have 24 hours in a day , and so whatever time we free up , we are still going to have to spend it , and if we don't take a moment to decide what we're gonna spend it on , then actually we

can end up just spending on the same old nonsense that causes us the same anxieties and the same problems and the same regrets further down the line .

So on the one hand , I'm thinking about people who are close to exiting their business in whatever way , shape or form , whether it's through succession planning or closing down or whatever it is that they plan to do , but they sort of nearing the end of their career or they nearing the end of their business life or whatever it may be .

And they may be sitting there , cause I remember when there were some changes that came in , people were saying like I'm gonna have five years left , I'm not gonna worry about this and changing this and implementing this , so sort of from that perspective , maybe ignoring where things are moving at the moment and then also sort of coupled with that would be what about

people that are now midway through , early on , you know , in a different phase . They're not at the exit stage or close to that . They're building the business .

They maybe they've already built a great business , but they've got quite a number of years left Any advice for them around how to maybe approach this or what would be the first thing for them to do next ? I would say this is assumed that we're getting on this journey today , what would be the first things for those two to maybe consider ?

. And if you are thinking of an exit and your answer to that is I haven't got the energy I've done this for 40 years then the least risk time to sell your business is right now , because there's going to be a lot of change and a lot of uncertainty over the next five years . So think on that .

If you have got the energy to embrace it , then there are some really exciting opportunities . And that's exactly the same for all of those people at the beginning of their career . If you embrace this , then the opportunities well , we can't imagine them yet , Francois , and that's the really exciting thing .

You shouldn't put your head . You can , but you shouldn't . You should really think about how do you learn at least some of the basics and understand where things are going .

It doesn't mean that again , because for me , a business owner doesn't really need to know the details , the details and know exactly how to do it themselves , but you need to understand strategically where you need to go , what you need to think about .

Then you can find the people who can do it for you , whether it's somebody employee or you outsource whatever you do . From that perspective , it doesn't matter how small or how big you are . You cannot ignore this , and if you are ignoring this , you can't ignore this for much longer .

You have to think about this , because it will just one morning show up at your door and then it might be too late . So really embrace this , think about this . Look at both sides of the coin what's good , what's bad , think about how this is gonna impact and talk to your clients about it and see how they feel and do it as part of it .

Alrighty , ladies and gentlemen , that's it for today . Thank you so much for joining us live and if you're watching the recording all the way to this point , then even just thank you very much . We really appreciate that and we wanna wish you a fantastic weekend . We'll be back next week with another great interview and have a fantastic weekend .

Stay safe , be blessed and prosper and continue to raise the ball . Thank you very much . Bye-bye , all right , folks . That's the wrap for this episode of Propulsion . I hope you got as much out of this as I did Remember to tune in every Friday at 8 am , south African time , for our live show called Propulsion Live .

You can find it at wwwpropulsioncoza forward slash live and , trust me , you don't want to miss it . If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast , hit that subscribe button or the follow button and share it with your friends , colleagues and anyone else who you think would get something out of it . Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you in the next one .