Transcript
STEVE HENDERSHOT
What does it take to get ahead? Project professionals have to show they can add value. That means two things. First, you need to identify and develop the skills that companies are prioritizing. And second, you need to know how to show off those skills in applications and interviews. So how do you do that? That’s ahead—we’ve got three project professionals giving you the real deal.
In today’s fast-paced and complex business landscape, project professionals lead the way, delivering value while tackling critical challenges and embracing innovative ways of working. On Projectified®, we bring you insights from the project management community to help you thrive in this evolving world of work through real-world stories and strategies, inspiring you to advance your career and make a positive impact.
This is Projectified. I’m Steve Hendershot.
PMI estimates almost 40 million professionals work in project-related roles. Clearly, the world needs project professionals. And that need is only growing as organizations navigate more and more disruption. But what skills are employers actually looking for? And how can project professionals show they’re delivering impact? We’re talking with project management leaders about what skills you need in today’s market—and how to highlight them to get that next role.
Now let’s go to our conversation with three project leaders for some real talk about the job market. You’ll hear from Fernanda Bertino, a lead project manager at digital infrastructure and tech provider Cirion Technologies in Rio de Janeiro; Mohamed Swydan, head of projects for Gulf Cooperation Council countries at facilities and energy management services company Engie Solutions in Dubai; and Mutaz Said, project controls manager at engineering firm AtkinsRéalis in Denver, Colorado, in the U.S. And this group is full of PMI certification holders: Fernanda and Mohamed both have the Project Management Professional (PMP)® certification, and Mutaz has the PMP as well as the Program Management Professional (PgMP)® and Portfolio Management Professional (PfMP)® certifications.
MUSICAL TRANSITION
STEVE HENDERSHOT
Thanks, everyone, for joining us. Now, let’s talk about the career outlook for project professionals in 2025. Whether someone is looking to take on a new role or working to stay ahead of emerging trends, what skills or knowledge should project professionals be focusing on?
FERNANDA BERTINO
I believe the top interpersonal or power skill project professionals need to have is good communication. Things during a project happen really fast. Our natural reaction is to just go with the flow and do lots of things at once. But efficient communication requires attention. From that, I believe we can capture risks. We can see the real needs from our clients. And all this communication exercise can define a successful project from a not-so-successful one.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
Okay, great. Thank you. Mohamed, how about you?
MOHAMED SWYDAN
I agree with you totally. The communication is very important. One of the key things that I see is needed in 2025 is having leadership skills. We need leaders, and one of the main characteristics of a leader is that he seeks to understand before being understood, which needs good communication skills.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
What about on the technical side? What’s the knowledge where you feel like it’s most important to level up your game this year or advising a listener to do the same?
MUTAZ SAID
Data analysis. It’s become a big player. Most of the managers need to have this skill on their résumé and on their experience because now we are dealing with data all the time. For example, I’m speaking on construction projects like schedule, cost, risk analysis and schedule analysis. And also, we incorporate AI tools. So, for example, there are multiple trusted AI tools that we can use to help us and save a lot of time to do all of these analyses. And, of course, we need to double check after that.
MOHAMED SWYDAN
I agree with Mutaz that we are dealing with a huge amount of data. AI is here. Luckily AI came this couple of years and evolved very quickly. So I think the technical skill that every project manager needs to develop is AI proficiency. It’s a game changer in project management now. From inception till closure of the project, you can use AI in a lot of things. But bear in mind that cybersecurity is a very important thing—that you have to take care about the data that you are throwing into the AI to help you.
FERNANDA BERTINO
Here in Brazil, we’re starting a strong artificial intelligence movement toward project management. We can see lots of specific courses about artificial intelligence. For us project managers, I believe we can have plenty of very good tools that we can apply with little experience. We can always grab tools to help us, but we have to maintain our logical way, our experience. So, even though we use artificial intelligence to save time, we cannot lose our critical thinking. Because this is what, at the end of the day, will make our personal mark, right? And the reason companies and clients hire us and trust us is because of our critical thinking. So let’s use all the tools from artificial intelligence, but let’s also be ourselves.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
What about change management? How will this help project managers in 2025?
MUTAZ SAID
It’s a big thing right now, and it will impact the projects, good or bad, like to be ahead of schedule or behind schedule. Change management to plan change control processes needs to be adapted by companies and by teams. As leaders and managers, we need to monitor these processes and procedures for the whole time of the project.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
I’d love to hear how you suggest getting up to speed. What’s an example recently for any of you where you’ve seen a skill that you thought could use some developing? What was the skill, but also, more importantly, what were the steps that you took to level up?
MOHAMED SWYDAN
For me, AI is the skill that I wanted to learn. Then I found that PMI has courses. I take two of them, [and] one of them has impacted me so much, which was how to write the prompt, how to talk to the AI. It changed how I see AI after I take that course. So I got a lot of benefit from that.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
Great example. Bonus points for it being a PMI resource. Mutaz, anything for you?
MUTAZ SAID
I took some courses on data analysis, and also, there are specialized certifications beyond PMP, for example, [the] PgMP. There is the PfMP, and cross industry learning. Every day there is new software and new tools and new technologies. Yeah, that’s the things that I’m keeping up with to learn and develop my skills.
FERNANDA BERTINO
I learn really well with interaction. So I always look for classes and congress and group discussion. For example, we have lots of group discussion on LinkedIn. We have podcasts like this one to get to know the experience from other people. I believe when we can get like three or four people together to talk about those courses, those tools, for me, I learn better this way.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
So how do you think about the skill you’ve acquired and making sure that that translates into how you’re seen professionally?
FERNANDA BERTINO
When I started my career, I was not a project manager. I had a really good boss at the time, and he was a certified project manager by PMI. He told me, ‘Fernanda, if you like what we are doing right now, you need to get a PMI certification.’ That was 2012. For me, it was really, really necessary to have a certification and then also a master’s degree. All this studying together with the work experience make all the difference when I apply for other jobs in my country because I had the formal master’s degree. I had the PMP certification. I have the work experience. So it was almost impossible to not get a really good job.
MUTAZ SAID
Similar to what Fernanda said, I need to take this certificate just to help me on my job, have it in front of my name. But then after that, getting the second or the third [certification], it’s about gaining more knowledge and learning more technology, especially in my field and other fields as well. I look at it as continuous learning. My goal is to have one certificate each one or two years just to keep up with the market, keep up with the industry. Every day there is innovation. But for me, the big thing that I found helpful, it’s connecting with new people. I’m located here in the U.S., but now I have connections in South America, Europe, Middle East, Asia, Africa.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
Let’s flip it around. Put yourself in the perspective of a hirer right now. Are there things that you are looking for from job applicants into project roles? What stuff is bubbling to the top in terms of desired traits in a project leader?
MOHAMED SWYDAN
We hire for three things mainly: knowledge, skills and attitude. When we have project managers or junior, let’s say, engineers joining the team or senior, so the knowledge of the market, knowledge of project management, there is basics that should be there, up to how you are using AI. We are using this question in meetings with the candidates to see how much knowledge do you know?
Then we move to the skills. How are you using this knowledge? And what are the results that you are bringing? How is it a skill in his portfolio? Let’s say a framework. Third thing is the attitude. Why [has] he gained the knowledge? Why [has] he developed the skill? What is he looking for? What is driving that is, for us, the attitude.
I’m always evaluating the three anchors of any personality. So having the knowledge now of AI is good, using the AI with the practice that can be evident, can be presented. And the attitude comes within because the attitude transfers the knowledge into skill. That’s how I see it.
FERNANDA BERTINO
That’s perfect. And it’s really true. When I’m interviewing someone, before the interview, I can see the résumé. I can see the LinkedIn. So I already know all the achievements, where this person studied, all the knowledge. But when I talk to the person in the interview, I look for the attitude, how this person acts not necessarily during a project, but in life. Because that shows a lot about the person. And for project managers, we need people with desire to achieve.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
What are the other skills that you’re looking to get a read on?
FERNANDA BERTINO
The listening skills. I think the person has to make me believe that she or he wants to solve a problem from the heart. Because that’s the project manager. We come across lots of problems to solve, and I really want to feel that energy and that compromise.
MOHAMED SWYDAN
I agree fully with Fernanda. The attitude is on the top. It can transfer the knowledge into skill easily, but knowledge, it should match the job. For example, we are doing a PV (photovoltaic) solar project, a huge one in Saudi Arabia. So we need the knowledge. Part of it is the GCC culture. Part of it is the PV and these kind of projects—not deep technical knowledge, but knowledge about these kinds of projects, knowledge of the industry. But one of the main issues that I will search for is proof of a leader.
MUTAZ SAID
Yeah, I agree with Mohamed and Fernanda regarding the knowledge and interpersonal skills. I just want to add one more thing—to be proactive. We find these interpersonal skills help us a lot, especially on megaprojects. And [being] self-driven. Not waiting for the manager or superintendent to show the personnel how to start the work. Being proactive, that’s a big thing.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
So how can people best show off their knowledge and skills on a CV or résumé? What are you wanting to see there versus what you want to talk about, say, in an interview?
MOHAMED SWYDAN
In CVs, I’m searching for the achievements. Online, which is something I’m doing now, is reading experience that is shared. Some people now put pictures, videos from current projects, and I read how they describe the topic.
MUTAZ SAID
On résumés, I focus on the outcome, not just responsibilities. For example, delivered 200 million in projects under budget tells a stronger story than just listing tasks and [making] the résumé like three or four pages. And regarding LinkedIn, [if] they share the why behind projects, explaining the thinking process shows how they approach challenges. That puts value on the projects and the skills that they have.
FERNANDA BERTINO
For me, when I look at a résumé or LinkedIn, I look for the achievements as well. Understanding the history of that person. Sometimes I’m looking for juniors, so the achievements will be smaller. For senior positions, I believe the achievements have to be more complex. And also, I look for other interests. Is that person a runner? Is that person a traveler? Is that person a pet lover? Does that person do other things than work, right? Because, sometimes we focus only on technical, only on work achievements, but behind all that, who is that person?
STEVE HENDERSHOT
I’d love to hear from each of you one piece of advice to project professionals when it comes to standing out in the job market this year, whether that’s positioning yourself for internal promotion, trying to get the next gig, whatever it might be. How would you suggest that they take a step to stand out?
FERNANDA BERTINO
I believe there are two things. The first thing is find your own mark. Think about, for example, five good things that people remember when they think about you. What are those five things? And once you have this list, make it stand out on your daily basis. So there’s an exercise, really, really simple exercise that you can do. Select about 10 people and ask them to write down on a piece of paper five things that they remember about you. So you’re going to have 50 things, right? And you’ll see across all those pieces of paper the things that pop up more. That’s how people see you. If those things are good things, give attention to explore and to accept this as your mark on your career.
And the other thing that I always say is, be honest with you and with your boss. If you want to earn a promotion, try to understand your gaps and the gaps of your area on the company, and make a project plan to solve that. You’re a project manager, right? So make your own project plan toward those gaps—your gaps and the gaps of the area that you work for.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
That’s great. I love the structure of it, and it oozes some project management orientation. And it sounds like it would really be effective. Mutaz, how about you?
MUTAZ SAID
Articulate value creation. Always frame your experience in terms of business outcomes, not just project outputs. And build a narrative. Connect your career experience into a coherent story that shows progressive mastery of inclusively complex project environments. And invest in continuous learning. Stay ahead of industry trends, particularly in the integration of digital technologies with the traditional project methods.
MOHAMED SWYDAN
Leave the clock and look at the compass, where you want to go. As Fernanda was saying, do the gap analysis between where you are now and where you want to be. Analyze it, put targets, expand your knowledge and skills. Build, then, [a] strong online presence, then network with every person you know or you might know that can help you. Network through attending events, forums, online seminars, whatever that can help you to reach that target.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
Okay, awesome. Thank you everybody.
FERNANDA BERTINO
Thank you a lot.
MOHAMED SWYDAN
Thank you.
MUTAZ SAID
Thank you so much.
STEVE HENDERSHOT
And thank you for listening to Projectified. Like what you heard? Subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a rating or review. Your feedback matters a lot—it helps us get the support we need to continue making this show. And be sure to visit us online at PMI.org/podcast, where you’ll find the full transcripts for episodes as well as links to related content, like useful tools and templates, the latest research reports and more. Catch you next time!