Welcome to PSP. I'm your host, Mr. Nemo Spruce, and It is the Monday after the Sunday. That was Master Sunday and it was an epic finish. Rory McElroy, he had a case of the Sunday Scary so that we didn't have to, after 14 years, broke through to win his first master's tournament and he had to do it via the. Regretted a Playoff 18 he took care of business in the end. able to, push past Justin Rose from England. It was great Day for Ireland, Northern Ireland. it was great Great day for those who are into that TGA golf. Probably not a great day for the LIV golfers, but we can leave that for another day. Nevertheless, I wanna bring in someone who's gonna help us break down that Epic Masters weekend. He has his own business that helps golfers getting into the game and furthering their game. It is Donnie Dotson, founder and CEO of KA golf. how you doing?
Donnie Dotson / Carry:I'm doing very well. I appreciate the chance to come on your show and excited to chat about, what we saw yesterday and over the weekend.
PSP:Absolutely Donny think of masters moments, was Tiger Woods four or five years ago, coming back from injury and winning How epic was Rory McElroy's victory to you?
Donnie Dotson / Carry:Yeah, I think it's definitely in the conversation of most memorable masters, certainly within, my 43 years you referenced Tiger in 2019, What was exciting about yesterday and the parallel between Tiger's last victory is. It wasn't smooth sailing for all 18 holes. he had to go through some emotional and, golf ups and downs over four or five hours. It seemed like every time he had gotten ahead, he was gonna stay there. All of a sudden someone else made a charge or he had, a less than desirable shot. So made for a rollercoaster of emotions wonderful tv, wherever you were viewing for Rory, it's the culmination of His life's dream he's now won all the majors. He's in rarefied air with five other people to complete the career Grand Slam. So as I think about yesterday, I put it into the conversation of greatest masters we've ever seen.
PSP:the whole weekend was pretty special. Rory did get out to great start of a Thursday, Friday, the first customer rounds. He led the, the top half into the weekend, and then it became a real dog fight for him to stay at the top and to finish the way he did. How important is the mental aspect staying the course between the ears as much as making shots on the green,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:Well, for Rory this weekend, that was everything, he hit some of the best shots I can recall given the moment. he also hit some of the worst shots, which were part mental and physical execution breakdown. I believe in golf. More so than any other sport. So much is played between the ears. for our business, Carrie, we help up and coming professional golfers who have all the talent and work ethic in the world all the self-belief. I. But they're, they're on the front end of their career where it's financially very challenging. how can we help keep them in the game? And, and certainly one of the resources we wanna provide is is the ability for athletes to get the right mental edge and coaching. we look at their resilience, have they overcome some adversity off the course? one of the stats that I'm particularly fond of within golf is called bounce back percentage, and that speaks to how often someone makes a birdie After making a bogey the previous hole. I think that's a good indicator. you see all the greats do it. Scotty Scheffler, who finished top five this weekend, didn't have his best stuff. But if you go back and look the holes where he had a lapse and made a bogey, it's amazing how many times he follows that up with a birdie. And in Rory's case. he set a record. He had four double bogies over the course of the masters and still won. And that's never been done before. And so that speaks to just incredible talent, but incredible mental resolve to say, Hey, no matter what I encounter out here whether self-inflicted or otherwise, I'm gonna finish the race. And I think there are other times in his career where. Given what transpired, some of those unforced errors or, double bogies, he might have mentally not been as tough. But he found a way his team found a way to stay in the fight we all like stories, where people have to overcome adversity. he certainly did so this week, and it's, it's a testament not only to the physical skill, but certainly his mental toughness.
PSP:I remember when he burst on the scene in 2011, he was a young man on the course, set to blow everyone away. it seemed like he was gonna be the heir apparent to Tiger Woods. he may still be. that, but at that time it seemed like he was gonna take all before him. And then it was almost like a meltdown on those last few holes. So to see the full circle, to see him have that experience, channel it and use it to go beyond in this current tournament. And overcame the bogies, that ability to bounce back. You mentioned the bounce back metric. How important is analytics in golf nowadays? 'cause I think about baseball analytics, basketball's adopting analytics. How important is it for golf nowadays?
Donnie Dotson / Carry:data and analytics in basketball and baseball have changed the game, in tremendous ways. it's the same for golf not long ago, having a high-end launch monitor, you can think you know, TrackMan or foresight. Stuff like having one of those was, was nice to have. and they've quickly become table stakes as players want to better understand spin rates and, exact distances for every club. Regardless of elevation, regardless of of weather conditions. And I think that speaks to overall strategy. for OnCourse there's been a proliferation of companies and resources out there that help players think about how they're gonna take their game, whether they're a long hitter, a short hitter, whether they're really good around the greens or maybe struggle with scoring clubs, how they can take their game to a given course each week and best attack that course based on their strengths and weaknesses. it's pretty fascinating to watch. It's interesting as a fan, when you're watching it on TV to see the calculations that an athlete and and their caddy is going through before they, before they hit a given shot or play a given hole. it's also fun when data analytics say do X Rory's a great example. There were instances where the smart play, the statistical you know, recommendation would've been you hit a bad shot off the tee, take your medicine punch out into the fairway and maybe try to get up and down for par or bogey
PSP:but
Donnie Dotson / Carry:He said, all right, I recognize what stats and, and data may say, but I'm still a incredibly talented athlete. And, and he went after some shots that were probably ill-advised, but to his credit, pulled him off. And, you know, from a viewing standpoint, it, it, it made for even more compelling drama.
PSP:Yeah. I think for who weren't able to watch, definitely check out what Rory did in the final round on the 15th hole in the 17th hole. Those. Yeah, I can see those being in a 30 30. Rory's gotta get his own 30. 30 by the way.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:I agree. some holes on the front nine where he was, blocked out by the trees a bit. I remember listening to, the US broadcast Talking about, a window to go through and, you know, you're not, you're watching it on tv so you don't see everything, to its fullest. But it was hard to see those windows if not all of them. And not only to have the creativity and talent to pull off those shots, but also just to have the. mental toughness to say, I'm gonna do something hard and cool for everyone watching at home. you're right, 15 and 17, those shots,
PSP:shine.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:after, 16, he missed a putt he should have made for birdie On 13, the previous par five He went from a great position for birdie and really pat his lead to hitting probably the worst wed shot of his career. And, and one of the worst wed shots, I, I can recall giving the stakes and rather than walking off with a birdie or easy par, he walked off with a double bogey and all of a sudden it was game on again. fascinating stuff and I think. Going back to the original question, stats and data, played a big role in how he attacked the course But then there was some gut instinct, stepping up and hitting a shot, even if it went against what stats and data recommended.
PSP:No doubt there was some muscle memory in there as well. The masters are unique in the sense that it's always played a little Augusta, that there isn't a whole lot of change from year to year. So can get a good feel for the course if you're playing there quite readily. Now, is interesting 'cause I know that you spend a lot of time in the water of analytics a company I've had an interest in sport radar as well as in finance you also had the mental toughness and the discipline from your service. you are a Marine, so you for your service there. how do you combine those two traits to create the business that you have carry golf?
Donnie Dotson / Carry:when people ask how did you go from being in the world of national security and finance to creating carry, it's easy for me. for me. At almost 44. It's easy for me to kind of weave together a narrative or personal journey where all the different stops along the way for me personally and professionally made sense and resulted in carry. You know, my personal background, I grew up in South Florida, so golf is everywhere. I played recreationally only, never played competitively. And my handicap would bear that out, out, my parents didn't have a ton of money things like college or a country club membership we're definitely not on the table. if it wasn't for my military service, I could have never afforded college if it wasn't for people going out of their way to invest in me. Maybe not in terms of, you know, financially, but certainly in terms of mentorship, leadership, wisdom, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. And so as I think about my career.
PSP:career
Donnie Dotson / Carry:There was so much planted in me or that I began to envision at a young age that has its fingerprints on the origin story of Carey.
PSP:but
Donnie Dotson / Carry:But in a more tangible sense, military experience. does give you discipline, which I badly needed. Also, going back to that conversation of resilience,
PSP:night,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:While I never played
PSP:played
Donnie Dotson / Carry:I can see a lot of parallels between what it takes to be a successful professional golfer and a successful entrepreneur. Resilience is key to both. You're gonna have plenty of days where you feel like things are going well, but then you're also gonna have plenty of days where it feels like it's a real struggle and you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And then, you know, you mentioned sport radar. I got to do a variety of things there in my two years with the company. I joined just before Covid, shut down sports and, the world it was a crash course for someone who is a fan many sports and grew up playing them, but never worked in the industry. When you're just a fan It's easy to lose sight of the fact that all of these these athletes, these teams, these, these events that we watch on TV or in person, that they're also underlying businesses too. it gave me appreciation for how leagues federations make money, but certainly how teams and individual athletes not only make money, but fund their professional athletic endeavors Going back five years to the start of Covid, I was ignorant to the path from being a good amateur or collegiate player to making the top global golf tours. I was ignorant to the depth of talent out there, Competing on lower level events. if it wasn't for being at Sportradar, a company that transacts in collecting sports data from. Events all over the world and then distributing that data to media outlets, sports betting and fantasy operators. I probably wouldn't have had the key discovery that led to the origin of Carrie. so much talent out there competing, to earn their big tour cards. in the early days of their careers. Unlike other sports where there's guaranteed compensation, golf doesn't come with that, right? So you can think of golf, tennis, there's plenty of others where if you're an individual athlete, you are essentially your own business. like most businesses, your first order of business once you turn professional is
PSP:is
Donnie Dotson / Carry:gotta find the runway to train and compete the right way.
PSP:Money.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:And there are a lot of,
PSP:of,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:Some athletes. Thrive. Most struggle to get the funding they need.
PSP:So,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:my career journey, which
PSP:which
Donnie Dotson / Carry:some tangible and intangible skills along the way ultimately culminating at Sport Radar before launching Carry really helped shape my appreciation for this reality that
PSP:And
Donnie Dotson / Carry:regardless of your background, regardless of your profession, what adversity you've had to overcome. There is no such thing as a self-made person. if you've had any kind of success in life, there are a lot of other people who had a hand in getting you to where you are. how could we create a company within golf that really lives out? Those ethos where we could help up and coming athletes chase their dreams, right? And, and people who have been successful and other walks of life could kind of pay it forward
PSP:Absolutely. if you head over to carry golf, you can see athletes who have benefited from this partnership. it's not just male athletes, it's female athletes as well. You've got athletes on there. LPGA tour. Epson tour. college athletes, you got athletes in the PGA tour, the Korn Ferry, which feeds into the, PGA tour. How have you managed to, build out this network of golfers.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:we got started in 2022. I had just raised a small round from angel investors in my network. I said, Hey, we want to create this platform that's gonna help up and coming. Professional golfers, men and women chase their dreams and ideally go from chasing their dreams to living their dreams, Playing, competing, winning on the top tours. our model has evolved about a month ago, we launched a, a new marketplace, which you can find@appcarry.golf. I. And that has right now about 40 athletes, a mix of men and women, we're always gonna have at least 50% women. as expensive as it is for the guys competing in the early days, it's even more so for the ladies. our model has evolved and with this marketplace, a resource, a platform where up and coming athletes, from many sports tell their story. Hi, I'm nee here's my resume cv. Here's a little bit about who I am as a person and here's different ways you can support me. through corporate sponsorships or brand ambassadorships endorsement deals. You know, donating to, to someone's career fund or. one of the things that's unique to our marketplace is people can support golfers by buying unique experiences, Golf is an experiential game, and what we've learned over the last few years since we launched is that most people who supported previous iterations or athletes on our platform were doing it because they love golf and they wanted to feel closer to the game and, to professional golfers. So how could we create. Different experiential elements. think private Pro-Am outings with our golfers swing lessons caddying in practice rounds of big tournaments. there's really an endless amount of possibilities. it's been a neat endeavor and, and I'm excited about where our model sits now and, and where our platform sits. And I'm excited that over the next six months, I anticipate onboarding another hundred athletes let's make this truly a, a place where athletes and, and fans of sports can go and say, this is a great resource for supporting the next generation of stars.
PSP:golf is an Olympic sport. that's hoping to make the game more international. reaching parts of the globe where it hadn't reached before. when you and I were younger, it was about Woods, John Daily, Annika, Sosti, Kari Webb, and LPGA. Tell me where you see the game going in terms of personalities and the future of golf in the near term.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:golf has always been a sport. it sometimes gets a bad name or bad branding as, a, a boring sport, often played by stodgy folks from wealthy country clubs there's some of that, but it's also a game, especially at the highest levels of personalities. I grew up A huge fan of Chichi Rodriguez. Every time he made a putt, he did his swashbuckling sword routine. that was entertaining, whether in person or, on TV over the years, you can think of the Lee Trevinos, you can think of the, the Chevys, the certainly Tiger Woods. Like these were big personalities that had an influence beyond golf. when I think about golf in 2025, a lot of the players we work with, a lot of these young athletes, their starting point, the reason they got into the game because of Tiger Woods, Either they were a young boy or girl when he was in his heyday 20, 25 years ago, or someone in their family was a big fan. I'm reminded one of the athletes we just started working with comes from South Africa. he's got dual citizenship in the uk, where he resides most of the year. His name is Robin Tiger Williams. his dad a successful cricket player, loved golf and named Robin after Tiger Woods. it really speaks to the influence of personalities if one generation can be influenced by a tiger or an Annika as they mature carve their paths as professionals, we'll see more and more personalities come into the forefront. and frankly, that makes for a lot more entertaining sport. It makes for a lot more engaging conversations like this one. there's probably 25 people I could list right now that I think of as a big personality within the sport, not the least of which would be Bryson, who went into yesterday's final round with a chance to win golf's in a good place. the household names we love to cheer for and watch there are many of those even without the. Tigers and Annika is still competing. And as someone who works with younger pros, I can tell you there are many wonderful personalities poised to become household names soon
PSP:I look forward to seeing that down the line. It's good to hear the game is in a good place. innovations and analytics are helping optimize performances and with sustainability and day-to-day survival off the course. 'cause let's face it. You gonna be able to eat in between rounds, right? I have one question Question. NCAA athletes because name, image, and likeness has come up in the last four or five years. is Carrie able to assist with NIL for athletes in college
Donnie Dotson / Carry:With our new model, our new marketplace you're gonna start seeing us onboard quite a few student athletes. We're working with Nicholas Matthews in his last year at North Carolina State. Very talented and great person on and off the course. our marketplace model, particularly the experiential elements that I was speaking to a few minutes ago, because it offers a quid pro quo for anyone who supports athletes. We're now in a place where we can start supporting, college players. I think that's a great opportunity, not just for us, but certainly for athletes. One thing that I found is, you know, our starting point for, for Carrie was. let's eliminate or at least mitigate the variable that finance plays within an athlete's career. The oldest cliche in golf is the sports meritocracy. If you play well, you'll climb the levels. I fully agree with that, but it assumes that everyone is starting with a similar allocation of resources. And to your, earlier point. If you're the kind of player that's wondering where your next meal's gonna come from or how you're gonna afford to travel to the next tournament or the entry fee, you're not exactly competing on a fair spectrum with the person who's taken a private jet. has, two or three track mans launch monitors a personal chef, all those resources, those are great for the people who have earned them for sure. But how could we mitigate that Working with college players is exciting for us we found for some players waiting until they turn professional, 22, 23, 24. In some cases it may be too late because they didn't get that support while they were. 17 to 22, didn't play against the highest levels in college. didn't get the right coaching. how can we be a resource for players in their later amateur days to say, I've got what it takes I want to give it a run. As a professional, how can we, build a community around them? support structure much earlier so that when they turn pro, it isn't? Now I gotta figure out where my funding is coming from, where my next tournament's gonna be. rather they're already in an ecosystem setting them up for success. I would love to see us work with more student athletes and excited about what NIL does for us to be able to do so.
PSP:Absolutely. Obviously had a few careers leading up to this one. I get the sense you've always had to look ahead, whether as a marine or in finance analytics, always about what's next? do you see any potential challenges? in the golf industry or even beyond that, that you're gonna have to navigate in the next few months,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:one attribute that combines all the different things I've done over the last 20 plus years can be looked at as an element of like perpetual worrying or, or perpetual planning, in the Marines we always talk about proper planning, preventing piss poor performance. that's true in every walk of life. where I sit now from a, a standpoint of. You know, what are my, my big concerns as it relates to the business or the fundamentals for carry? it's hard to tune out whether it's geopolitical or, economic here in the US it's been a rollercoaster of at least a few weeks when it comes to all things capital markets, all things tariffs, potential trade war. And I, I think those things are concerning for any business. But when you are a younger business like ours, targeting, discretionary spending, from companies or individuals, it's hard not to worry, If a company we are gonna do business with has a strong foothold or exports from a country that's now looking at 50% or greater tariffs, how does that impact their marketing budget? How does that impact a deal that we may have in place? So I think for me, in the short term, and probably, throughout 2025, the biggest concern is the macroeconomic environment? How does it impact, our business model and our ability to get sponsorships for deserving athletes recognizing companies may be looking at their marketing and, cost of goods sold differently.
PSP:with proper planning, you can prevent piss for performance. I've learned something new today. Now is that five or six Ps?
Donnie Dotson / Carry:So I think it's six Ps but there was a five, six, or seven version depending on which adjectives you wanted to add in there. And may, maybe that's for a different conversation.
PSP:no worries. I'm sure I've used said adjectives on the golf course. 'cause my level of patience is not as much as some of your clients or folks you saw on the mo, but all good. I have utmost respect for those who play golf professionally. some of the best and have it going on between the ears as we discussed.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:I'm glad you said that because, starting this with Carrie, I'm a fan of the sport, it really tries my patience whether I'm playing poorly watching it on tv. it's such an impossible sport in so many ways when you think about everything it takes to make it as a professional athlete or golfer. I hate the idea that people who have the talent the work ethic and the game and, and the, the, the mental fortitude or, or strength between the ears, I hate the idea that they have all those things. And the one missing ingredient might just be, startup capital, right? when I think about golf, the things it takes have, success as a professional tour player. Even the macroeconomic environment I think startup capital, is the easiest to deliver you could give me a million dollars to play golf every day for the rest of my life, and I'm never coming close to being a tour player. most people are in that category. these players who really do have the tangible and intangible skills the whole reason we exist is because the sport's hard. let's try to mitigate important variable. so athletes can go about not only chasing their dreams, but living their dreams.
PSP:Absolutely. make sure you check out Kerry Kerry Golf on X, formerly known as Twitter at no Kerry? No, spelled KNOW. And on Instagram at Your Carry. find more information and you can also see some athletes from this very innovative and unique solution, bridging the gap between golfers and their dreams because like Donnie's mentioned, is not always easy to pursue such a dream, but with the help of support of others, folks are able to make it. So don't even Appreciate time today. is there anything else you
Donnie Dotson / Carry:Else wanted to share the audience. No, I, I'm just grateful for coming on the show and chance to chat. this is my first time talking about the Masters since it transpired yesterday and was fun to relive some of those moments shots that I think will endure for many decades to come.
PSP:no doubt about it. And shout out to Jim Nance, by the way
Donnie Dotson / Carry:Absolutely.
PSP:there's an answer Who says. The most when he says nothing, you know, just being able to capture that moment for about five or six minutes when Rory broke through. you can tell that done a few masters tournaments and he understood the moments.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:You're right. I saw something on Twitter right before we got on here.
PSP:hmm.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:between him and Trevor Immelman, the color analyst for CBS. When Rory won, there was like a seven minute period where they combined to only say 46 words.
PSP:Yes,
Donnie Dotson / Carry:makes for great viewing. I didn't necessarily appreciate it in the moment, but afterwards you think about it and it's like, yeah, we just wanted to hear the conversations. We wanted to see the embraces between him and his daughter and wife I think they captained the boat really well there.
PSP:I'm looking forward to that documentary when it comes out on Rory McElroy.
Donnie Dotson / Carry:It'll definitely be out 30. For 30. You're right.
PSP:a hundred percent. I'm looking forward to that. In the interim, we'll wait with interest, but in the meantime, check out Carrie Golf. This is another episode of PSP, and I've been your host, Neal Bruce, take care.