>> Hunter Hoover: Share a space that is pretty intimate and private. And when they share that space with a person of the opposite sex, things get uncomfortable for people. Um, welcome back to privy. Privy is a podcast about bathrooms recorded from my home bathroom. I'm your host, hunter Hoover, and I love bathrooms. Welcome back, everyone. I hope you guys are enjoying the summer air. For those who are joining us by video, you're going to be able to
see it in my face. Um, but less than 20 minutes ago, I was just neck deep in a cherry tree, just plucking cherries, just fisting cherries out of a tree left and right. I swam to Jan. As soon as I got out of that tree, it was like the floodgates of the histamines in my face opened up, and I unleashed an allergy cavalcade the likes I had not seen in some time. Now I'm also just getting over some seasonal ish. Um, so the post nasal drip is
fierce. So, for those who are joining us, if this your first time joining us here on privy, and you're wondering, my goodness, is he going to talk about allergies this much on a show about bathrooms? Like, I already clicked on this show, and it had a toilet as, like, the thing. Like, I was already on the fence. But, yes, there's gonna be some allergy conversation at the beginning of this one. We will do our best. Um, the video editing is next to nothing, so forgive the. Forgive the allergy
sniffles. Um, they exist. We will do our best to power through and do that. But it's June, and we're almost to the. We're. We're almost to the end of the rainbow hellscape that is June. I want to share just my interactions. So I live here in the, I will say, smallish city of Albany, Oregon. And, uh, this just today, Albany, Oregon, had its pride celebration. They got together downtown, and they had rainbows all over.
Um, and I. Whatever. Like, I'm staying out of it. I chose to not go downtown, but what I will say is the Facebook page for. For Albany pride, um, says that they. That they wish that there be no public disturbance during the event. And I think that is an excellent idea. The problem is, is the event shut down at least two public roads downtown, and I believe it's more like four, but two
that I could tell. And as far as there not being a public disturbance, in my opinion, if we had just not had a full blown festival of rainbows downtown today, we could have avoided all of the public disturbance. So much so that I took my son and we went and put Pokemon go elsewhere. But, um, in honor of the month of June, we need to talk about the elephant in the room, or perhaps it's the ass in the corner. We try not to get political on the show.
Um, but Papa Joe, he came into the bathroom space. He kind of entered the bathroom, ripped a fat beefer. It's good he did it in the bathroom this time. It seems like he's been willing to do that from the stage, but he really mucked things up for everybody. And as always, we cannot start with Joe Byron, um. Cause it turns out the pride rainbows run deep in his 80 whatever year old catholic heart. But we can't start there. Today, we are tackling the
super chill, the. The super chill and totally uncharged topic of segregated bathrooms. More specifically, sex segregated bathrooms. When we start talking about the history of sex separated bathrooms, it is one where, like most market economies, it is not a question of when or how, but what was the need? When did the need arise for us to separate these bathrooms? And for a really long time, there wasn't much of a need to separate bathrooms based on men and women. In the earliest days of public
bathrooms, those of ancient Rome. There you go, guys. We thought about it for the day where public bathrooms were probably a lot more public than anyone really wanted. Like, they're so public that if you look to your left, you're probably going to see nasty Dave's little Dave as he makes his deposit. Or if you're lucky, he'll offer you to use his spongy poo wiping wand. Check out episode one if you want to know more about the wiping wand and
Dave. But separating everyone from using the same bathroom wasn't really an area of concern in ancient Rome. And that's mostly because they were not worried about making sure that women could use these restrooms. The restrooms were for those who were going to be in the public space. And while women did use them, they were designed often by men, and they were not designed thinking, oh, man, we got to make sure that
the ladies are comfortable here. Most of the time, women were not out in public as often or not in the same capacity as men. And so often, you know, we're less likely to be using these public bathrooms. Now, uh, a woman could use these public bathrooms as much as I can use an Ada big stall. But just like the Ada big stall is not designed for me in
mind. It's designed for people with limited mobility, wheelchairs and the like in mind, the public bathrooms of ancient Rome were not designed with women in mind, they were designed for anyone in public use. And in ancient Rome, men were often the people who were out in the public more often. So, technically, yes, Rome had unisex bathrooms, but only in the sense that they had bathrooms and didn't think of separating them at all. It's a wild world. Uh, it's really the wild west of
separate bathroom. I mean, we're getting ready to do full circle on it. And if you hear that and you think, man, that really doesn't sound great. Like, that doesn't sound like what I want to get my ish into. I cannot stress. These bathrooms were very public, but they were still not quite as public as many of the bathrooms that they used in the middle ages. During the middle ages, they saved time and money by not even building bathrooms. You
know what will save us? Let's not even build toilets. Let's just take a fat chassis right in the river, drop a stack right in the middle of the street. So, again, technically public, technically a unisex bathroom, but this time, it is only a unisex public bathroom in the sense that all of the outdoors is public. By that knowledge, bears on the regular. Where's the bears supposed to poop? If not in the woods, but the bears on the regular, then, are using unisex public bathrooms. Are we trying to
be no better than bears? Not as public. Uh, but it is. And you can't get much more public than Dr. Like hanging beef in the middle of the street. And that didn't last long. In the Renaissance era, perspectives about bodily functions and sex separated ideas began to shift, and there was an increased focus and an increased importance placed on privacy, specifically the privacy
of a woman. How we view the time spent in the bathroom changed, and as they started to perceive this separation, as time went on, the private things that we sometimes have to do in public started to be separated as well. As men and women. Both began to be in these public spaces more often. And with ongoing changes in cultural norms and expectations for both sexes as it relates to what you do in private, this led to women needing to access a public bathroom more
often. And there's this moment, do they use the same bathroom? Like, it seems as if there's a cultural shift at this time, because for so long, that's how it was. There was not a special space for women. Um. Um. And not in a fruity. Speaking of fruity, we got a new flavor here. Mango, BlackBerry, polar seltzer. Oh, get it, get it. Praise be to he. It's just good. Um, polar. You guys are doing good stuff out here. But there's this moment, like, do men and
women now use the same bathroom? Since there's, like, new standards of privacy? And for a time, that's how it was. If there was a public bathroom, it could be used by all intended for males, like, designed for males in mind, because they were the ones who were leaving the house, going out, working, doing those things, um, but could be used by both. And there's been a couple of stories about how we arrive at these sex separated bathrooms as we come out of the 16 hundreds.
The first is a story about the first sex separated bathrooms placed in public, at least the first ones that we have on record. This was reported as 1739 in Paris, France. You know what I found out? Here's something that I find interesting. If you're going to talk about the history of bathrooms, it's only a matter of time before you get back to Rome, ancient Rome, which, here we are, guys, we talk about it. Or France. Like, the French are just wild about toilets. They cannot get enough.
The French are absolutely hog wild about where they go to the bathroom. But this. This first reported public sex separated bathroom was reportedly used at a restaurant as kind of a gimmick to make the men and women of the upper class and the establishment feel refined, as if they have their own special bathroom spaces. It was kind of a party trick. Um, is the way that this story goes. Now, it was a way of making both the men and women feel special.
Now, the interesting thing about this theory is it was not technically a public bathroom because it was a sex separated restroom at a private ball held by french king Louis XVI, the Hotel Deville, in celebration of his daughter's wedding, to which about 14,000 people were reportedly invited. Now, it's not technically public, but if you're anywhere in this world, if you are in any space on planet Earth and there are 14,000 people there with you, it's
going to feel pretty public. Like it? Uh, but, yeah, the story doesn't completely check out, but I would argue 14,000 people in attendance might as well be public. King Louis. Little bit. Little bit too big of a flex there. But the second prevailing theory about sex separated bathrooms comes from, uh, is from. And that it is derived from sexist ideas out of the further intermingling of the sexes after the industrial revolution, um, especially post world war.
The idea is, as women went to work and were found in work spaces more often, the theory says that men chose to separate the bathrooms by sex in order to fight back and further limit, at least in one space where men and women could mingle. It was as if they're saying, if you're going to be here at work with me, you will not be in the bathroom with me. This is a no lady zone. Um, and if that was
true, we're going to get into that. But if that were true, in my experience with interacting with women, they don't care. Like, they have almost negative desire to be in a bathroom space with any man. Like, I think if. If you even ask married couples and you ask the lady and they're like, hey, if you had a perfect world where you could have your own bathroom, didn't have to share with your husband, would you take it? I think most of them are going to say
yes. Like, so, oh, you really show to men of the industrial revolution if this was true. But as it turns out, many of the laws about bathrooms and sex separation in the workplace occurred to curb sexual harassment that was on the rise as men and women populated the same public, yet very private spaces. Isn't that interesting? You know, that's pretty
interesting. When men and women share a space that is pretty intimate and private, and when they share that space with a person of the opposite sex, things get uncomfortable for people. And there were sexual harassment cases from this, I want to note before you, unless somebody hears this and say, oh, well, here's another, here's another angry whatever, trying to dunk on sex separated bathrooms. Um, most of the like, other than my commentary, the last few minutes of information was gained from
Yale laws website. Link in the. In the diddly bopper down below. Go check that out. Um, this is their findings. Do with that what you will. In the article, it is cited that the first laws about sex separated bathrooms can be seen in Massachusetts in 1887. Now, the media, that modern day media, I'm looking at you, modern day media, you sick freak. Um, they incorrectly assume that since this is the first time we see Allah calling for sex separated bathrooms, it's the first time it ever happened.
But for lack of a better way of saying it, that's stupid. It's also not accurate. I want to also note, as we transition into the next section, that much of the research and much of the information in this episode is in the debt of A. W. Brulette Carter, who wrote an article debunking the history of sex separated bathrooms in 2018. Again, link episode description go, go check out, uh, cite your sources, kids. If. If I'm going to tell you something, cite your sources.
It's the best thing you can do. If you want to read it, it's down there. It's a lot, but it's good information. But first is noted that this idea of separating sexes in public, yet private natured spaces, bathrooms, locker rooms, pretty much the two things, you know, like, here we are, goes back to ancient times, and they have found writings and other notes about times when women would be allowed to access these public
bathrooms. So what it was is, like I said, with the ancient roman public bathrooms, in certain parts and in certain cities, they would have women hours or women blocks where they would block off sections of time. And that was when women and children could go. Again, they didn't. It was unisex, but they separated when they could go. Greek writing and greek culture speaks of human nudity and privateness as something that ought to be kept separate as often as they were able to
do so. This is seen in songs, plays, artistic depictions of the time. Jonathan Swift, in his satire of the nobility, wrote of setting up a bunch of toilets so they can sit out there and take a dump. And in it, he wrote about putting, quote, the other sex in the cells on the left. In other words, even in Jonathan Swift's time in, um, early England, they
were separating. The idea of separating private spaces based on sex was not uncommon, and it was not unheard of, mostly because they could intuit that it was the right thing to do. These can be seen in the history of separate sex in public baths within the United States since the outset of the country. And we covered the public bath movement, um, back. I think it was during the bit about the Chicago fire. Um, you'd have to go check that out. Um, in short, those public baths in America
had a. Had a different problem. It was not sexism. It was outright racism. That was the trouble with those. It should also be noted that this idea that we need to separate the sexes did not apply to the lower class. It was the nobility that often had this treatment. It was as if the low class had to just deal with sharing these spaces with one another, rather than what is tried to be peddled today by the media. That is that sex separated bathrooms are a, uh, modern sexist idea used
to separate us. It would seem that quite the opposite is true. Rather, as you look back at history and you take a good, long look at common sense, you realize something. We have been seeking to have sex. What a place to. Stop that sentence. I'm sorry, kids. Um, we have been seeking to have sex separate private spaces for m men and women since pretty much ever.
The instances where they were not. Were special. They were outliers, and in many cases, not the standard by which you wanted or desired to have things measured. In the instances where they were unisex bathroom, there was often special care taken to figure out still how to separate based on sex for the comfort and privacy of the different sexes. It seems we separated these spaces for the purpose of privacy. Men and women are different, and also for the purpose of safety.
But there's been this push recently to try and retell a portion of bathroom history. And here on privy, we like bathroom history. We like it a lot, so leave it alone. And the reality is, sex separated bathrooms are the norm. And that brings us to a segment of who in the news now, while, again, we are trying. We try not to get political here on privy. This poo in the news is. And it is centered on bathroom things. A simple Google search today.
The point you're listening to this, you have probably about five days left of this rainbow thing. Um, and a quick google search of title ix and bathrooms. It's going to bring a lot up these days. Um, title ix is the civil rights law Congress passed in 1972, which demands that schools that receive federal funding ban discrimination based on many basis. And at the time, one of those basis is that it could not discriminate on was sex at the
time. This law did a lot to secure the rights of women and their access to safe public spaces, specifically in education settings, and was huge for the implementation of women's sports in education related facilities and entities. In 2020, Joe Biden was elected, and he seems bent on pandering to any demographic that will listen as he tries to get reelected this
year. Again, not to get political, but I want to remind all of the elder Gen Z, millennial, and young Gen Xers who might still be staring down some student loan debt. We were promised it to be paid off, and it has not been. So here we are. And he seems bent on pandering to any demographic that will listen as he tries to get reelected this year. And the biggest thing he did recently, and by the time this comes out, he probably has done something even more
wild. But he redefined sex, the term sex male female, uh, to include and also mean and encompass the term gender. The problem is, that's not how it works. This redefine will allow all genders, transgender students, to choose to use a bathroom based on their gender, rather than using a bathroom based on their sex. So you can have a man with male genitalia and male tendencies identify as a female in gender and use the girl's bathroom with your sisters, daughters, and the like. There's a couple
problems here. We don't usually make laws to cater to people's feelings. Laws are generally based in facts, and they serve to protect people. They are often based in facts that can be proven and are not, uh, based on a person's feelings. Turns out it's really hard to prove how someone feels, or, better yet, whether or not they do feel a certain way.
Second problem here is this change to title ix undoes a lot of the work that Title Ix originally sought to do, namely, create safe spaces for females and all races. But in the encompassing conversation, females in public life here in the states, our country is in huge debate over this. And by that, I mean a minority of the population, which is really loud, has bent the ear of the president. He wants their
vote. That's why this goes through in August 3, unless we get a big screeching halt from the Supreme Court. It's interesting that this happens just months ahead of the election. Why didn't he do it on day one? Makes me wonder, you know, it makes me wonder why week one, just first week out of the gate, why Joe Biden didn't come in and do that. It's kind of interesting to me. But whether you agree or not, remove the politics here for a second. Set it aside.
The reality is that this change allows any teenage boy to follow your daughter into the bathroom, and vice versa, any teenage girl to follow your son into the bathroom. And I think if we're honest in doing so, we are giving up the already established rights, young men and women, for the desired mental comforts of a vastly small population of kids that will be taken advantage of by a larger population of sick young people.
But sometimes the news, like my underpants in the middle of privy summer, is messy. So why try and make this change? Well, you see, bathrooms because they are separated by sex and are in the cultural zeitgeist a lot nowadays. An article by NYU published in 2016 states that sex separated bathrooms are largely due to sexism related to women as they grow in their social roles. It argues, as it quotes, enforced segregation erodes dignity of their very being. It is, right on its face,
unequal. And trust me, this is just one of many articles pushing this. This idea that sex separated bathrooms exist to tear down women. But you know, what is a really modern idea? Like, really modern is gender. And as it would seem, and as it would happen, the idea of gender is probably less than 100 years old now. We're not solving a gender debate. Here on privy. But we are going to weigh in on bathrooms because that's why we're here. We care about bathrooms.
There's a podcast about bathrooms. That's what this is. And it seems that we separate bathrooms based on sex. The parts in our pants, if you will, not based on gender. The feelings that we have in our body and our brain, they argue your gender is how you feel. It's impossible to separate on gender. As a result, they go non gender bathrooms. And the problem is, according to them, we all have gender. We're just supposed to suppress it in favor and in favor of a
gendered bathroom. That's why, if you are going to separate, if you're going to separate bathrooms at all, you separate based on sex. What's in the pants? What is your DNA? And the reason you do that is because, yes, there might be someone who is male sexually, and they say that they are female gender. But because this is a public space and you are entering into a private, public space, we separate based on your biology, what is in your pants. Feel whatever you like.
Now, the other path forward here, if you're not going to separate, if you're not going to do sex, separated bathrooms and you want to work out your gender on your go, do that. The other option is single stall bathrooms. Just single stall bathrooms. One person. We don't care what type of person that is. But make all the bathrooms single stall. If that's your path forward,
if you don't think like. And this is different than this idea of open stall, wherein all the men and women go in and then they split. Single stall. There's one room, one way in, one way out, one person. That's it. If you're gonna. If you're not gonna separate on sex, separated bathrooms, that's the path forward. If you don't think this is, if you don't think all of this stuff is a mess, go check out the last few winners of
America's best restroom. And a lot of them have kudos because they have these all access bathrooms. But it's redundant because any gender can use any bathroom because it's a feeling, and not all feelings are good, real, or should be valued. Rather, as it seems we always have, bathrooms were, are, and should be continue to be separated by sex, male and female. That'd make them all single stall. That's the only path forward.
Or, to quote the article from earlier, Carter's article, the alternative bathroom histories do not fail merely because they incorrectly explain how bathrooms first became separated by sex. They do not, err, because they seek to tell the stories of LGBTQ peoples. They fail because they exclude the histories and experiences of other vulnerable groups, specifically women and the
poor. Those who push narratives that contort women's history, even when they do so in the interest of aiding transgender people, oppress women while supporting the rights of everyone to be treated fairly, women and supporters of women have the right to push back against those narratives, end quote. And so we do. June's almost over. We're almost on to some freedom. Well, guys, we hung in there. Uh, sorry, we got a little in the weeds this week. Um, we made
it. This, uh, brings us to the end of another episode of Privy. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Um, as always, leave us a rating and review. The five star options are preferred. And for every rating, uh, you leave, we donate a dollar to wounded warriors and living water national. And for every written review you leave, we'll bump that up to a couple bucks for each of those as a reminder to keep pooping in the free world. That free world was not always free, and we're pursuing
cleaner water for all. Uh, send us an email privycastmail.com. follow us on social at privycast. You can follow me. I'm Owlette seven. Um, go check out Randy Bowles. Andybowles. We'd love to see you out there. Uh, say hi. Say what's up? If you have a story to tell, we'd love to have you on the show. Hit us up on email. Um, thank you to Kevin and Poddington for the use of your music this week. Uh, thanks, Kevin and Poddington. This brings
us to the end of another episode of Privy. Thanks again for being here. Own your stank, wash your butthole. And now, as always, don't forget to flush.