Episode description

It’s said that the world can be divided into shame based and guilt based cultures, with the west sitting firmly in the guilt side. This is because the west has prioritised this idea of the individual, with our sense of right and wrong a matter between ourself and whatever higher power we ascribe to – whether it's our god, the state laws, or our conscious itself. 

In the west, guilt is seen as an appropriate and even productive emotion, with shame as the corrosive cousin. But in shame based cultures, which really make up most of the world, its shame, not guilt, that does the heavy lifting. And given most of us in the west live in rich multicultural communities, it’s important to understand shame if we’re going to understand what motivates the people around us. 

In this conversation, we talk with a leading world expert about the deeply corrosive aspects of shame, and how to release its grip on us. We also speak with a leading psychiatrist who’s written a book in defence of shame, to see what benefits shame can bring. We’ll also open the lens a little wider, looking at how shame is used by conservatives, liberals, but more interestingly by the progressive left, which challenges us to be careful not to shame people’s sexual expressions, weight, or in fact anything that’s seen as an authentic version of oneself. Whilst at the same time, the left has very successfully used public shaming, including through cancel culture, as a way to regulate what can and can’t be said. And finally, we’ll discuss social media as the super-fuel for shame, as it provides us with an almost infinite community within which we seek praise, and fear condemnation.

Guests:

Dr Patti Ashley

Patti Ashley holds a doctor of philosophy degree in psychology from the Union Institute and University, a Master of Education degree in early childhood from Old Dominion University and a Bachelor of Science degree in special education from James Madison University. She is the author of Living in the Shadow of the Too-Good Mother Archetype, Letters to Freedom and Shame-Informed Therapy: Treatment Strategies to overcome Core Shame and Reconstruct the Authentic Self. An international workshop presenter, TEDxspeaker and psychotherapist, she owns and operates Authenticity Architects in Boulder, Colorado and Taos, New Mexico.

Dr Tanveer Ahmed

Tanveer Ahmed is a psychiatrist, author and columnist on social issues for the Australian Financial Review. His books include Fragile Nation about the cultural rise of mental health and In Defence of Shame. He is an adjunct lecturer for the University of New South Wales. He has served on local government, government advisory Boards and as a national representative for the Australian Medical Association. He is based in Sydney, Australia.

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Your hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman.

Find Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked in

Find Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and Twitter.

This Podcast is Produced by Jonah Primo and Bronwen Reid

Find Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram 

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