The Veil of Utopia: The Mac is 40, Microsoft is $3T, and iOS 17.3 Makes it Harder to Steal Your iPhone

If you build it, he will come. Welcome to Primary Technology, the show about tech news that matters. Today we're gonna talk about iOS 17.3 and stolen device protection. Netflix is trying to get into live TV, and Microsoft passed that $3,000,000,000,000 market cap value, what that means, Apple Vision Pro and more. And I'm here, of course, with my trusty cohost, Jason. A10. How's it going, Jason?

It's good. Thanks, Steven. How are you doing?

I'm doing good. You know, I realized I I haven't introduced myself in the intros yet. I I just start talking. I'm Steven Robles.

He is.

I think it's the first time I said that. I know people probably know that.

He's the

Reason we do this show. No. No. No. What?

It needs no introduction.

That see, I don't wanna assume that. So I'm Steven Robles. He's Jason Aten. That's who you're listening to. Right.

He has the most recognizable voice on the Internet.

Oh, well, that's very kind very kind of you. So we got a lot to talk about today, some news, not all Apple news. Of course, we will touch on Apple Vision Pro a little bit because That'll maybe some rumored sales numbers and elusive reviews and all that kind of stuff, but I wanna thank some 5 star reviews because you guys have been very kind. The support for the show keeps coming, and we really appreciate it. So here are the 5 star reviews this past week.

We should try a different format, Steven, it should be a 2 minute show.

2 minute show. We're we're already hit it. We're we're at 1:45 recording this.

That day. We just read reviews over time.

It's great to see everybody.

I gotta say, though, that this is this actually directly relates to what I was just saying before this because, you know, Steven says that there's a glowing review. I just want everyone to know you should read these glowing reviews because most of them are. Steven, we are so glad that you're doing a podcast again. We don't know who the other guy is, but he can stick around.

No. No. No. They mentioned Jason too. They say we have great rapport, and so no. It's it's both of us, and I wanna thank you all again. We've we've stayed in the top charts. We we slipped a little bit. And so if you have not given the show a 5 star rating and review in Apple Podcasts, we would really appreciate it. It's a great free way to support the show, and then we'll tell you about how you can support the show in other ways a little later.

true. Not like the things you ride down at a at a playground, just to be clear.

Oh, yeah. No. No. I should. That's true, I should specify. We're talking about, like, keynote versus Google slides. Yeah. But

anyway Yeah.

Nobody's gonna pay for that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I wanna pay, Cover Iowa 17 dot3 real quick at first because it came out earlier this week for everyone, and, everyone's gonna see I Accidentally shared my movie quotes because I I'm trying to start every episode with a movie quote, so I had a website pulled up.

Right.

Without my face ID? So I thought that was a little strange. Have you enabled it and have you know have you played around with it?

No. I have not enabled it. I'm actually not even sure that I've updated to 17.3 yet, which would be the reason Oh, my. Why I wouldn't

Jason, we do a tech podcast. I don't know if you heard. Hey. We do a tech bot. We talk about Apple.

Yeah. I'm still on well, here's the thing. I went around for, like, a week telling everyone, don't upload update your iPhone because it was like You told everyone it was bricking people's phones, and so I turned off

Oh, the beta. Yeah.

Well, I turned off the automatic updates, and so I haven't done it yet. But I I think Oh, I The location thing is interesting. So I hadn't really explored that. I think for a lot of people, they're thinking, like, I don't understand. You can't get into my phone if you don't have both of those things.

It's a Hannibal Lecter problem.

Yeah. But what or a face off. Isn't that there's that movie, the Nicolas Cage movie. Yeah. There you go.

That's right. John Travolta.

Yeah. But if you did have someone's phone and their passcode, the The real issue was you have always been able to change your Icloud password Right. With just your device And the passcode. And the reason Apple did that is actually, like, very helpful because

Right.

People will use either a complex password. They're they're trying to get people to use better passwords. And if you use a password that you can't remember, which is kind of what you're supposed to do, and then you lose that password

Right.

You lose everything if you can't get into your Icloud account. And if somebody does that, if they were to turn change your Icloud password, the problem is you can no longer find the phone because you can't use Find My. You can't Recover your data. You can't do any of those things. So Apple's trying to find a way to balance those two things, and I think the way they came up with is actually really smart because

Yeah.

You have to Have the device. You have to have unlocked the device. But then in order to do certain things, not everything on your phone, but to change certain features, certain things, you have to do the biometric Authentication twice. So and I was, like, why an hour apart? And it's pretty obvious that if you get mugged and they hold the phone up to your face, Right?

Right.

You do raise an interesting question. Like, what if it happens while you're Not one of those locations.

Right. Exactly. So And

you said there's a 100 and some?

There was, like, a 193 locations listed on my device and, like, I would love to know what those are. I'll you can Clear the history so you can start from scratch, but I don't know how those 193 got there to begin with, and so I would love to granularly control, like, I just wanna put my home address. Yeah. My mom's house, and pretty much that's it. Like, I just want those 2 in there.

Yep.

Like, I wasn't even trying, and so I I do think

Right.

There's a lot of people that don't think about it. They've never had their device stolen and so it's not a big deal. And this isn't like an epidemic. You know, Joanna Stern did find a number of people who this had happened to and it did affect their entire lives, like they lost a lot of money, they lost all their photos. So this has happened.

I think they I think they did it right, and I'll make the case for why. This is a thing that most people don't need. Just to be candid, like most people because if you if you were to read the reporting, this is a is a very much a social engineering thing. Right. The people who are having this happen to them are at a bar.

Right.

And then if you get home and you don't need it, you could just turn it off. Like, you'd have to wait an hour to turn it off probably.

But Follow-up if you're a trusted location. Just go to your supermarket.

Yeah. Oh, that's true. If you get home, just don't do it at Publix. Anyway, so I think they made the right call in this case. I think there are other situations where they maybe Should have done it differently.

So basically, every bouncer at every bar. They should say, let me see your ID. Let me see your stolen device protection. Let's make sure it's on.

Let's turn it on.

Every bar. That's just what they do. Yep. That was the major feature of 17.3, and the other big one was collaborative playlists, which I think people will enjoy using. So you can create a playlist or set one of your current playlist and send a link or have a QR code be scanned, and you can have other people add songs to that playlist.

Awesome.

And, the first song I put in there was Never Gonna Give You Up. I was trying to Rick Roll everybody Yeah. Right from the start. I thought that

I feel like that's a good band name though, Steven Robles and 99 others.

Be good. But it's all trumpet music. It's all trumpet music. So

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's be a brass choir. Alright. So that's interesting. I think for our bonus listeners and our members. We're gonna do a Primary Tech collaborative playlist, and so you'll need to listen to the bonus episode, which you can support the show in Apple Podcast or at primary tech dot f m. And I will do one, for for you guys, see what songs you come up with. And, don't don't spam the list with like 10,000 songs. I had one user do that.

Wow. Isn't there wasn't that tag oh, no. That was a 1,000 songs in your pocket. You've way exceeded the capacity of the original Ipod, so good job.

That's it. That's it. Oh, I have an Ipod right over here. Where'd my Ipod go? Here, this is an Ipod video. This was my first iPad.

I got one back there on the shelf. Oh, mine looks a lot like that, but mine's white. It's right back there on the shelf. So

The iPad video was the glossy front and then, you know, the iPad classic, which came out later, was like the matte matte finish. But Okay. This, I had sold my or gave away my original one. So I I literally bought this on eBay just to have, like, a prop, because I like having it.

Oh.

So it does work. You can plug it in, but with the latest macOS you can't add songs. It doesn't say

Yeah. That's what happens to my iPad. It it it'll turn on, and it'll even keep it charged, but you can't do anything to it because if you try plugging it in, it's like Looking for Itunes, which hasn't been available on a Mac for a while now. So I wonder if I plug it into a PC because they still make Itunes for PCs.

Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. I have Windows computer

somewhere. Alright.

I'll have to try it.

I'll I'll try and I'll let you know. Good content.

Okay. Yeah. Try try and let me know because I might, I'll run-in a virtual machine if it does work. Alright. So alright. So to to expand past Apple, Microsoft briefly crossed the 3 $1,000,000,000,000 market cap value, which I'm not, like, super Wall Street, knowledgeable or investor, but I know this is a big deal. And, yeah. This was they actually crossed Apple, briefly

Yep.

As far as market cap value for for, like, one day. It was a couple weeks ago, but they crossed it. I mean, it's a big number. So can you tell me about it?

So this is actually the second time well, it's actually not just the second time, but it is the second time in the last couple years that Microsoft And Apple have been sort of going back and forth in last it was a week or 2 ago. Yeah. Microsoft was above Apple mostly because Apple had come down. Microsoft had gone up. And then yes was it when Wednesday?

Wednesday.

But the reason I think this is interesting has absolutely nothing to do with Apple, actually, and more to do with the fact, The reason that Microsoft is back here. Right? Microsoft is the largest tech company for a long time, mostly because of Windows. Right? And then a few years ago during the pandemic when everyone was, Like, using Teams and stuff.

Yeah. That was good.

That was really the reason for the event. But they introduced 2 weird surfaces, Like a Surface Go laptop, which is, like, their ultra boardable, pretty much useless computer. And then, I mean, they make some really good computers that just isn't one of them. And then they made the I think it's the surface maybe studio, but it's the laptop that sort of folds around and does interesting things. And then the entire rest of the the presentation.

can go to no. No. You can go to youtube.com/atprimarytechshow and see all the things. Now this was actually a tech event you, actually went to. Right?

Yeah. I actually went to it. It was in New York City. It was it's one of their laptops. It's the Surface laptop that folds out and does interesting things. We'll find it and anyway.

You know, this is this is just indicative, like, naming things.

You know how I am with names.

Well, but also Good. But also, like, I I know we're not talking about Apple right now, but The line of MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and then just different sizes, and then Right. It's just very clean. And this is, like, just looking at Microsoft websites, like, Surface Pro 9, Surface Go 3, Surface Laptop 5 Laptop Stoo like, it's very I don't know. I don't think it's

It's the Surface Laptop Studio 2 is the one that I'm referring to, which is a laptop that folds down and the screen, like, does

Here it is.

Yep. There you go. Thank you. I really I I feel better. I appreciate you stalling there for a minute so I could, like, look in my notes and remember what it was.

It's true.

No one used Bing before chat gpt was built into it, and then they just do it for entertainment. Nobody really uses it as their way of Accessing information on the Internet.

Right.

So Microsoft is doing the smart thing. They're building these AI tools into the places where people will actually use them and where they'll Actually, be really useful, which is summarizing your information you already have. You have a spreadsheet of Right. Data, and it does things. It'll tell you stuff, and then it Cross reference that with your emails, and it can look at the documents you have, and it can just do all these things that Google's gonna get there, but they're much more cautious, much more worried about the reputational The risk of all of this where Microsoft's just letting it fly, and it's working because, right, the investors are like, give us more.

That is interesting.

I think Microsoft is a Sort of under the radar boring company because we just think of them as, like, the people that make Microsoft Word and PowerPoint, which we'll talk about later. But really

Yes.

Really, they're making those products really interesting using AI, so

That is good. I mean, honestly, I I don't think about I feel like when people talk about Microsoft software, it's either begrudgingly or, like, yeah, I know that exists or I have to use it. You know, Microsoft Teams Right. I think so many companies during the pandemic and afterwards were basically forced to switch to that because their companies already pay for Microsoft Office, and they were like, we're not gonna pay for Zoom premium when we already have Microsoft Teams. Like, we have food at home.

Well and, yeah, you you talk about Microsoft in the early days of the Mac. That's like, it was in what is it? 1997 when Steve Jobs comes back to the company. He gets up on the on the stage to Give a keynote at, I think, Macworld, and there's this this giant video of Bill Gates overhead looking down at him because Bill Gates had Microsoft had invested money and said we Commit to putting our products on the Mac. There probably wouldn't be a Mac today, maybe not an Apple today had that not happened.

So I will say, you know, for our Apple audience though, I'm gonna complain about one Windows thing, which is I have this one online email account that I need to use for a work thing, and it requires the Microsoft Authenticator app Yep. Which I I don't know if you're familiar with this, but

this is like a

I use it every day. Do you really? Yeah. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You use it to save like your 2 factor authentication codes or you use it for like just for a bespoke login.

I for it's just the thing I like to carry around is the my Microsoft Authenticator app. No. I have to use so here's the thing. There is a service, VPN that I have to use in order to get into the CMS to publish articles. And so I just now use it for all my two factor stuff. Every two factor code that I have. Now I know I can move those over to passwords app. I probably should do that. But, like, yeah, I have a whole whole list of them. Is it like am I If you show that, is that a really bad idea?

I mean, just depends what what information's on screen.

All my g factor codes for, yeah, for, like, Discord, Instagram

Jason, wait a minute.

All these things. I'm using it for what's wrong with it? It's just a 2 it's just an authenticator. There's Google, Microsoft, like

The login that I have to do, it's not their normal two factor login. It's like a special

The thing that says tap the number tap the tap number 88 to confirm On this login?

You literally get a notification from the app. You have to tap that, and then you have to put in the 2 digit number you're seeing in your web browser in the app. Yeah. Then it scans your face. Like, why can't it just be a passkey or a normal two factor code? Like, it is I guess maybe for all the suits, it feels more secure that you have to, like, put in a 2 digit number specifically each time. You just can't autofill it when I'm trying to log in to this one account.

Yeah. I get it.

It's not good. But, Jason, don't use that for your two factor codes, Icloud passwords.

But when I started using this, that wasn't an option.

Yeah. Fair enough.

And now they're all in here.

And it is it is difficult to, like, move them all over. Although, you can import

The next thing I know the next thing I know, we're gonna be recording this podcast on Teams. Just a downhill like you can't avoid it.

No. No. We record on Riverside exclusively, just so everybody knows.

I just wanted to get see, I sent you out perfectly. I think you're welcome.

That was a good setup. That was a good setup. Alright. We got to talk about Apple Vision Pro a little bit because supposedly Ming Chi Kuo is out here throwing numbers and so he's saying Looks like Apple sold a 160 to a 180,000 Vision Pro units during the first preorder weekend. One of the things I thought was interesting is After that initial wave of preorders and it would say it's unavailable, you know, for in store pickup, a couple days later, Apple said in the Apple Store app, tune back in they didn't say tune back in.

Oh.

I thought about it. I thought about it. I was gonna be the wild person and, like, drive there the night before, stay at a hotel, and I was, like, no, It's not that serious. I mean It's just not it's not that serious.

You already have one coming to your house. They have people who will bring them to you. You don't actually have to drive all that way.

But but I did I wanted the in store experience. There were also rumors that there was gonna be like a special bag. Like I guess on the iPhone launch It's like a special bag, but you only get that if you pick it up in store. So anyway So that was it looks like it's, you know, sold a 180,000 units. If you try to order online right now, March, like late mid to late March is the delivery date, so it did slip whether or not that's, you know, a lot of sales or just the limited stock.

Yeah. I'm yeah. I did. I'm not I don't know.

You did cancel your order? Yeah. Not even a week. You still had time.

No. Because they were good. They I've I'm pretty sure they charge people's credit cards pretty quick. So.

Yeah. They did already they charged it very fast.

Then I have to start doing paperwork, so I didn't wanna have to do paperwork.

Wow. Okay. Well, one of us will have an Apple Vision Pro, next time. Now I we're not gonna I I can't I can't record, like, after I get the Vision Pro, because it's probably gonna be like 2 PM Friday afternoon. So Yeah. We'll just do a normal show next week, so everybody knows. And then the week after, I'll join the show with Apple Vision Pro on my face, and Jason will will not apparently because he canceled his order.

I will. I mean, I did cancel my order. That doesn't mean it's that I I mean, you just told me I could drive. Well, it's not 3 and a half hours for me. It'd be, like, 23 and a half hours, and I could go pick one up at in Tampa or wherever. So

Yeah. And honestly, a lot of the stores, actually near me, They don't have a launch day, but you can still pick it up February 3rd February 4th at a lot of different locations.

Okay.

So It's the availability is there even if it's just not for the exact launch date. But, anyway

It is amazing, though. If you think about it, a 180,000 Vision Pros is, like, very small number compared to Number of iPhones they probably sell on preorder, but that's over $600,000,000 worth of VisionPROs that they just sold.

Pretty good. Plus accessories. I mean, those accessories aren't cheap.

Yes. That travel case, you're right, is, you know

200 bucks.

Probably helping to boost that a little bit. But I think about that in the Context of people were talking about, like, they're yes. That's a small amount of demand, but it's a very expensive I would love to know when the new MacBook Pros came out, how many people bought those on launch Right? Was it more than a 180, like, I don't know. But that's the only device that Apple sells that's really comparable. I mean, the Mac Pro, obviously, but I assume no one buys that. But, like

Don't buy it.

So I don't know what what the other comparable thing would be. It's like buying 3 and a half iPads, basically. So I I that It feels like that's a pretty successful launch. I don't know what Apple's expectation was, but if the if the date if the shipping dates are slipping, it seems like Apple sold what it expected to.

Apple sold what it expected to. So there's gonna be a lot of people, at least I know in Florida because, you know, launch day's sold out, there's gonna be a lot of people wearing Apple Vision Pros around. I'm curious if we will see reviews like with normal Apple launches. You know, I looked back to the Apple Watch because I feel like that was the last time a major product category was something that Apple was entering. And The Verge had a review of the original Apple Watch come out April 8th, I believe, 2015, which was 2 days before preorders opened.

Yeah.

Maybe not a 100, but you can watch, like, 20, 30 reviews, early reviews of products at the embargo date. I just feel like that's not gonna be the case with this. A, Apple didn't have a problem selling it. I don't think they're trying to sell a ton more right now. Like, they can wait until normal people get it. But, b, I almost wonder you can tell what you think, Jason. Apple did this weird, like, pre press things, you know, where they had, like, Al Roker and MKBHD, Nikhil Neil Patel.

I'm still bitter about that, by the way. I L Roker really. That was where I draw the line. I can handle MKBHD.

Still little. Yeah. I get it. I get it. So, you know, they do this thing where Apple took the pictures of the people wearing the Apple Vision Pro. They've been very carefully curating the story, except for what these tech people post on Instagram. And I don't know, I almost wonder if Apple rather it just get into the hands of the masses before a bunch of colored commentary is put out there about it from early reviewers. I don't know.

Okay. I do have thoughts. Yeah. Comparing it to the Apple Watch, I think, might be the wrong comparison because people knew what to do with the watch. Right?

It was 2 sizes. It was

38 import. Size do you want, little or big? Right? The the bands, the there's nothing to like, they just work. Right. They're interchangeable. They're super easy. Like, there was very little about that. The there weren't as many failure points. I mean, the software wasn't amazing on the original Apple Watch, but it was still especially Looking back, but but people knew what to do with it even if Apple wasn't sure what it was for yet.

Right.

Because it's such an expensive device and because there are so many failure points. And I just reflect back to WWDC Having sort of the hands on experience, the demo, and afterwards, there was an opportunity. We were sitting in we were sitting in a little Seating area with, like, some product people, not the people who had done the demo and a couple of other media press journal type journalist type people who were sitting there, And we were given a chance to ask some questions, and they didn't wanna ask answer any tech questions. Right? And in fact, one of the things that they said was, You know, today is not about tech specs.

I'm trying not

to trademarked.

Okay.

Anyway I appreciate it. But, you know, he's it's not going to just be about the experience. It's gonna It's gonna be about how this thing was built. What kind of technology is in there? What is that technology doing? And so I think what Apple wants to the kind of the impression I got was This thing is amazing. The technology, we figured it out. Just put it on and experience the experience. And so I think they're trying to keep that Sort of veil of

Yeah.

The It's

like mystery.

Utopia. Utopia. It's a veil of utopia. Is that a thing? There's a there's a title for you.

That's part of the episode. Absolutely.

Yeah. There you go. So I think that they're trying to maintain that as long as possible and Moving, you know, and then they'll move past that once they're in people's hands. So

Thank you for the episode title. I have one question before we move on from Apple Vision Pro because you used it.

Yeah.

When you're wearing it and it's on battery, where is the battery icon? Can you see, like, the battery percentage in your view. You remember?

I never saw 1. Now that doesn't mean that there wasn't one, but listen. You have to Realize that it is a sensory overload because not only can you see the room you're in, but there's just all kinds of interesting things, and things are sort of, like, lighting up. By lighting up, I mean, Indicating that this is the selected inter piece of the interface as you move your eyes around. So everything you look at suddenly becomes a thing that you can just, like, select By pinching your fingers together.

Yeah. But I mean, people love putting the actual number percentage in their battery icon, which don't do that.

Do it.

I know everybody does No. No. See, this we're on the opposite side of the spectrum here. Don't do it. You don't need that much granular.

I thought it was better when they only had the number and not the fill part of it.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Alright. You don't need the it's not it's not that Siri. Look at the widget. You can look at the widget for the percentage. You can, Just swipe down from control center. You can see the percentage. Don't stress yourself out. You know what I mean? Life is short. You don't be thinking about your battery that much.

But I I tried it for a while and my life was way more stressful, honestly. Really?

That's interesting. Well Yeah. With Apple Vision Pro, like, I'm curious because 2 hours on that battery.

Yep.

And if you wanna start a movie, you kinda wanna know what that percentage is at. So I was just curious, like, are you gonna, like, Have to look in the upper right hand corner of your room. Do you have to, like I don't know. I just want I wanna if anybody knows out there who maybe tried VisionPRO or you just know? Where where's the battery? Where's the battery icon? I just wanna know.

That's an important piece of information that we would like to break exclusively on this podcast. So somebody reach out to us. Let us know where

is the

battery indicator.

Where is the battery indicator? Alright. Gotta talk about, Netflix getting into live TV, side loading on the iPhone in the EU, in in the Apple car, and then we'll get some personal tech. But we actually don't have a sponsor for today's episode. Our wonderful sponsor Audio Hijack and Rogue Amoeba, they have a couple episodes coming next month, but I thought I would take a moment and say, a well, they're not gonna hear this because I'm gonna cut this out for the members.

Where Where

did you who are you talking about?

They're high school students. A high school journalism class.

High school journalism class. It's very interesting. Yeah. So we would love your support. If you can't do that, we totally understand. Enjoy the show, the free version. Watch on YouTube, listen everywhere, put it on repeat, whatever you'd like to do. You could also support the show with that 5 star rating and review. That'll also help us out. But We appreciate your support.

Entertainment. It's technically Sort of sports, but they're getting into the least authentic live TV you can pass. Like, there is There is layers of nuance of, like, you're you're you're making a point of you're getting into live TV and it's sports, but it's Pro wrestling. It's Listen. It's I'm not knocking pro wrestling. I'm just saying No. No. Like, that's a stretch because it's the least, I don't know. I don't even know.

Probably the least when it comes to being live or not, I don't know. I I've not watched wrestling, so I don't wanna disparage Any live wrestling watchers. But anyway, Netflix strike struck struck a deal.

Yes. Struck. They struck.

Stroke a deal.

They they came up with a deal.

That came up with a deal with the WWE. And in January 2025, so 1 year from now, They will be the exclusive streamer, I believe, of WWE Monday Night Raw. It's like a $500,000,000 deal. It's gonna be for 10 years. This is a 10 year deal, which is a $5,000,000,000 commitment.

I mean, so this is actually sort of confusing Because I I was actually just looking this up because I was pretty sure that the WWE, they had their own streaming service maybe, and then they became a part of Peacock.

Okay.

I'm pretty sure that for a long time, they were part of Peacock. So I was just looking this up to try to figure out, like, how does that work? So wrestling was already on streaming, and now they're going to be streaming on Netflix instead of on Peacock. And I'm probably Getting some of these details wrong because I don't

It says right here, WWE's current deal with NBC has Raw airing on USA Network until October 2024. So it seems like that deal ends October this year, and then Netflix picks it up January 2025. Got it. And Netflix will become the exclusive home of, quote, raw in in the US.

Which is quite the thing to claim. Anyway, I so I think Sports is always, like, the holy grail of television. Right? Because it is

Yeah.

The thing that, one, draws the most viewers. I mean, if you look at the charts that they put out of the, like, top 100 Show, you know, television broadcast over over course of year. Right. 97 of them are the NFL. 1 of them is the college Championship. One of them is the Oscars and one of them is I don't you know, some other random some other random thing.

Probably the big game. Right? We can't say the s word.

I can say the Super Bowl.

It's fine.

So But that's one of the that's one of the 97. We're not, like, saying

Well, they're not gonna get taken down for saying it?

I don't know. Does YouTube have do they do content strikes for saying the word? You just claim you're having a Super Bowl party if you're a high school middle school youth group because then there's confusion about, like, the trademark. But I'm pretty sure, though, We can state that it exists in the world. In fact, I'm sure

they look like us too.

Anyway Okay.

I know. I was always afraid to say it because I knew it was, like, a big deal. That's why everybody said, like, whenever you go into, like, back in the day, Circuit City

Yeah.

Or you know, the supermarket now is like, the big game, food, the big game TV sales, the big game. You know, you can't Yeah. See. Yeah.

Yeah. Because they do yeah. Anyway, I I think we're I think we're fine.

Okay.

If we get to the point where we have enough people watching this, the people from the NFL see this, then, like, I will We'll deal with it. That'll be great.

We've made it. We can hire a lawyer at that point.

We can reedit the show, cut that piece those words out. You can add the big game.

Complete it out.

We'll do 80, you know, dub well, we dub this episode for anyway.

The big game.

Yeah. Anyway, so I I do think that that is the I mean, As we mentioned, like, MLS Design, Apple TV

Right.

Major League Baseball in just different places, the Thursday night games on, on Prime Video. Prime Video had a Friday, Black Friday game where you could, like, watch the commercials and, like, scan QR codes and, like, buy anyway. Yes. I think that the streaming services are going to do everything that they can to get as much sports as possible. And it might've been on, it was either on, Ben Thompson's stratigraphy podcast, you know, in one of his articles or it was dithering where they were talking about, like, expect to see more ESPN stuff designed for, like, streaming services for, like, the Vision Pro, for example.

Yeah. When it comes to live TV, I'll just say so my mom has had a TV for, like, 14 years, and and it was starting to blip out. And so it was time to get her new TV.

She's had the same TV for 14 years, you're saying. Okay. She said the same thing. You made it sound like she just got a TV 14 years ago, and I was like

No. No. No. No. We we had a tube TV my entire, childhood.

Yeah. We do pay for YouTube TV, And we it was really, like, a kick in the gut because we so we had had Hulu with live TV for a long time when that first came out and when we cut cable for good. And then it started It it started to get more expensive, and not only that, Hulu has this thing where you can pay for Hulu without ads. Right? And so we get Hulu as a part of the Disney plus bundle with our Verizon phone, if you can follow that road map.

Yes. Yeah.

And and we pay for Hulu to not have ads. So we're paying, like, $5 a month for the Hulu, Like, the whole bundle. Right? And it also has, like, ESPN streaming service. The thing is, some shows on Hulu, even if you pay for no ads, still have ads Because of the deal they have with, like, FX or whatever the the station might be. And not only that, you could be watching a Kids movie like The Croods or something. But if that movie is on, let's say, FX

Right. Then you

you get whatever ads are on FX. And those ads sometimes Are not appropriate for children watching it. And so we got rid of the so the the the live TV, and we moved over to YouTube TV. And you're right. It was, like, $45 at the time. It was a great deal. It is less of a great deal now

Exactly. Especially

because the only thing we use it for is basically, like, we were just we're talking about watching live sports. We love watching, you know, our Michigan State basketball and football, that kind of thing. Well, Michigan State football wasn't that fun to watch this year, but we we enjoy and the Lions, Lions, Alliance. Alright. Playing San Francisco next week for the NFC championship.

Yes. So this is Hulu Live TV and Disney plus $77 a month. The no ads, Hulu, same package basically is $90 a month. You know, my mom is not watching sports.

Right. She

wants to watch like Wheel of Fortune when it's on. Right. You know, those those kinds of they're like the the network dramas or whatever that are on at 8 PM and it's like that's no. So anyway Yeah. Over the air antennas, just so everybody knows, they still work. You just find the right one, you gotta find the exact spot by the window, free. You don't have to pay anything a month. Just throwing that out there.

You Just have to buy a new one every 15 years. Years ago, I got

a new one. Yeah. No big deal. No biggie. Alright.

So Yeah. And we we we did sort of call this in the sense that when I I think it Was maybe last episode of the week before where I basically said that nobody cares about, you know, steering people to their website. Nobody cares about site. What they care about the 30%, or in this case, the 27%. That's the reason all of these things are nobody I mean, the arguments that people are the developers are making and the regulators are making is that Consumers should have choice.

Right.

It's Probably a better experience for most developers. Right? I think it was on on ATP a week or 2 ago where both Marco Arment and Casey List, both of whom who have apps in the App Store said, If they were given the choice to just take the payment somewhere else, they'd probably just use the App Store. Right? Because it's just easier for them.

And I'm curious, like, what kind of reporting because it seems like they were requiring reporting from developers with links in their apps for steering them out to the web. I'm curious if there will be a reporting required for side loading, and I'm sure there's also gonna be a 1,000 warning screens if you do try to side load an app like, danger, like, this is going to probably ruin your iPhone or whatever. 2, like, personally, I would probably never side load an app. Right. I mean, it would have to be really I don't know what the case would be or what the app would be.

Yeah. They're still sandboxed. I mean, yeah. The that doesn't change iOS.

Still seeing bugs. Yeah. That's true. They're not they're not they're not changing any of that. So but I know me personally, I I would still just stick to the App Store.

Yeah.

It's just a numbers thing. And, again, like, from my own experience, I get why. Like, you already have a credit card that you know is up to date because you're already you already have subscriptions on there, you're already paying for apps and stuff, and the ease of, like, tap tap face ID and you're signed up for the subscription and the integration with Apple Podcasts, just like the integration with the App Store and the iPhone, and if it's a universal app, You buy it on your iPhone and then you can on your iPad. My kids, if I buy an app and it's shared, they can download it on their devices because we're in the same Icloud family. That ease of use and visibility, like, again, I'm not defending the whole 30% or whatever, but I will say, like, the visibility of being where Apple users are, Whether that's the App Store or offering a subscription in Apple Podcasts, just being in front of more eyes has benefited us personally and me personally in multiple podcasts because more people just sign up when it's easy in the Apple's apps.

Yeah. In Apple, it seems as though it's kind of like the the idea that, like, if you have a trademark For something, you have to defend that trademark or you lose the trademark. Right? If you if you have a trademark on a thing and somebody else is using it and you just let it go, Essentially, you've diluted your trademark, and now you can't go back later and sort of, like, claim that. And it sort of feels like that's Apple's approach with this.

Yeah. Yeah. That second cup of coffee is coming through. I Yeah. I think it's the same thing with the Apple Watch where it's still surprising to me that rather than just giving Massimo whatever money they want for this blood oxygen sensor patent, that Apple would rather put a banner on the top of their website that says series 9 and Ultra 2 no longer have blood oxygen. Like, these they just doesn't come with it anymore. Same price. Sorry. It does feel a little like

Were you the one that said that they should just drop one of those Walgreens pulse oximeters into the box with every Apple Watch that they ship just despite the Oh, no. I didn't 10.

I don't think I know that, but that's pretty Okay. That's pretty that's pretty good. Just ship it in the box.

Just ship it next to a separate completely separate pulse oximeter to every single person that buys when it's, like, $10 at Walgreens. So

Yeah. It's $66. So There There you go. Anyway, alright. Last thing before we get to, Matt, the 40 years of the Mac as a personal tech.

Yeah. And everyone will just think it's the next generation of a credit card because they all sound the same. I think well, somebody I saw somebody post this, I think, on threads. It's like Apple has been saying that the well, no. The reports have been saying that Apple will be launching a car in 4 years for the last 9 years.

And to be clear, Tesla Full self driving is level 4. Right.

But it's not real. So that but that if it was real, that's what it would be. I mean, when

it's not driving in Hold on. You say it's not real.

It's not full self driving. Right? It's called full self driving. The car will not fully drive itself.

So cgpgray, He did a video where he took a Tesla Model Y, I believe, on the Dragon's Tale Road in North Carolina. And this was several years ago.

Which I've ridden on and it is ridiculous and you throw up anyway.

It's ridiculous. And he did not touch the steering wheel or the gas for the whole ride and, like, it did it. Like, it it drove the thing. So and this is just my ignorance, like, is that not self driving or, Like, what is that compared to what you're talking about? Like, full self driving completely.

Okay. Well okay. I have a wait. We have a Tesla Model s, by the way. Before you send me hate mail, You're welcome to send me as much as you want, but before you send it to me, I want you to understand I drive a Tesla every single day. Okay? So I'm not just hating on a company. Like, I have a model s, the Nicest one you can get. I just wanna be clear about that. Okay? It's not a plaid or whatever.

You know, I waited into this, and I did not think about the possible Tesla hoards that might

It will generate plenty of engagement. This is wonderful. But but let me

with everyone.

Our our other car is a Hyundai Hyundai Palisade. It will also do that. It'll keep you in your lane and keep you going at the same speed on any road in America. Well, what it won't do is be like, oh, Oh, you want to go to the grocery store, sit in the back seat, and I'll get you there. That's what full self driving means to people.

Now isn't Aren't there not I feel like I've seen TikToks from people in Los Angeles or whatever where they call an Uber or some ride share, and there's no one in the car, and they just sit in the back seat.

Waymo.

So is that self full self driving?

Yeah. But have you ever seen one of those? No. They're wearing, like, a Crown of sensors and cameras. They're like mini vans with, like, 4 feet of things on the top. So yes. I mean, you know, the monorail is also What's what's the name of the brand? But, like, the monorail is also full self driving. Right? You can get in that thing, and it goes on a track, and it'll kick you all the way around the Magic Kingdom.

No. No. No. I I wanted to I was actually curious. Yeah. I see what you're seeing. So these are the the Waymo cars. I'll put this link in the show notes. W a y m o. Yep. As you as Jason aptly described, this thing has, like, yeah, contusions and growths all over it because it's cameras and sensors and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And they are saying it's, a fully autonomous ride.

Well, but they only go on specific routes And on specific areas that are you couldn't just get into that thing and be like, drive me to, you know, some place that's never been or is not care in fact, a lot of times, they're very, Very geo fenced in terms of locations. There's a really good I'll I'll send Steven the link, and he can include it. But there's a really good video from a guy named Kyle Connor who does a lot of EV Videos taking one of these around, and it's like, you can only go from certain places to certain other places is which, again, that's not Full self like, I think words mean things. So I get really worked up when we use words to mean things that they don't

You're a writer. I get it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway.

To be honest, Waymo is saying the world's first autonomous ride hailing service. I think even they're very careful not to say, They say take a fully autonomous ride. Right. Like you are saying, they're being careful not to say, like, we have full self driving cars, which Yeah.

Well, they don't even get cars. They're just using other cars and putting a crown of of cameras

on it. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is good. This is gonna make for good clips.

I was thinking that. I was thinking I just gave Steven so much good stuff. So that's

me, Cliff.

It's so worth it to me.

Going off. So anyway, I I don't know. I don't know if we'll ever see an Apple car, but I'm also I drive a 2011 Kia Soul. Jason's ahead of me on the car game,

so Well, you know.

You'd be closer to getting it. Anyway I

just the only reason I have a Tesla is so that when I write things and say things like this and people send me hate mail, I can be like dude, I drive 1. Just leave me alone.

It's It's the ultimate justification. Like, listen, do you have a Tesla? No. Yeah. I get it. I get it. Well, I I do know. My father-in-law has a Tesla Model S and he doesn't like to drive it because he's trying to Keep from putting miles on it and I'm like, I don't know if the if you still paying for gas in your Infiniti SUV. I feel like this is Yeah. I feel like

there's a re it's not worth having just to sit in your garage. It's not it's not

worth it. You you gotta drive it. But, anyway, alright. We gotta talk about The 40 years of Mac. So it's the 40th anniversary of the Macintosh, which was the actual 40th anniversary was yesterday's record, which is January 24th. And was this when the commercial aired or was this when the no. This is when it was No.

The commercial aired 2 days earlier during the Super bowl.

Super Bowl.

So the time 22nd was the one still one of the most iconic commercials of all time directed by Ridley Scott. You know, it's the 1984 commercial where the lady's running with, I think, actually, if you scroll down, you'll see just a little bit of it. But, where it throws the big screen and it's like why 1984 won't be like 1984 or something like that. Yeah. And then 2 days later is when the actual Macintosh went on sale. So that would be Yesterday, 40 years ago.

So there's been a lot of great pieces written. Jason has a great piece. It'll be in the show notes. Jason Snell has written several and just a lot of affinity and nostalgia for the Mac, for the original Mac, and then even for the Mac today. And I'll let Jason really wax poetically about it.

And

so I I do wonder, like, 20 years from now what the affinity will be. Although I do feel like when my kids really wanna do, like, work work or maybe really make videos, they're gonna want to get a Mac because they're gonna want like real edit video editing software, but anyway. There's just this affinity for the Mac. I feel it too. You know, we I think it was just on last week's episode.

Well, so I wrote about why I think that the Mac is still Apple's most beloved product, and I think that it's hard to remember, especially because a lot of people listening to this weren't around. And I was I was around when the Mac came out. I just wasn't very old. Right? The first, you know, this is, this was 2 years before the, the challenger, you know, Shuttle explosion.

Yeah.

I would without a question. There I there there are some very good Windows machines, but my brain just doesn't work that way. My brain works the way that the Mac works, And I would much rather have the Mac. And the and the the real reason is the Mac is built for you to do whatever you want. There's so like, So many times when and and they still sort of say this on occasion, but, like, the tagline was Steve Jobs.

a there

was a there was a dark period of time there for for pretty much all of the Macs, really, except for the MacBook Air, which is pretty consistently been good since it came out. So I don't know. I just I think there's there's more it's I think it's still very beloved by a lot of people, not just the people that you mentioned, but even people who use it today. My kids don't Own Macs. We have an Imac that they use occasionally for things.

Hearing everybody talk about the Mac this past week, the level of nostalgia and affinity for it, It does feel like you're saying unmatched by the iPhone and the iPad. I almost feel like people who really love the iPad get a little closer to the same level of affinity as what people do for the Mac. Like, I do feel like like for Lolli on YouTube and Federico Viticci, although less so recently because he's kind of frustrated with the platform. Like, there was a time when, You know, people who really love the iPad really had an affinity for it, and it still doesn't match the Mac by any means, and it is not as long standing. But it does feel the Mac stands unique as a platform that is both extremely powerful and extremely loved.

John Gruber, John Siracusa, Steven Hackett, Mike Hurley, Jason Snell, Dan Moren Yes. And

Shelley Brisbane.

Thank you. It was like the who's who of people who with the exception of Mike Curley and Stephen Hackett, who all remember the original Mac. Right. Both of them

Stephen Hackett, like, has a collection.

He owns basically every Mac that has ever existed. He just wasn't there firsthand for a lot of them. So, yeah, I think I think that well, Well, and you talk about the iPad. You can't develop for the iPad on the iPad, really.

Right. Exactly. You need

a Mac. Right? The Mac is the platform. So, anyway, it's I would. I told Steven beforehand, which is kind of a rough thing to say before we're about to record a podcast, that this episode, I guess it's 4 90 6, 40th anniversary of the Mac draft, Is in my mind because of the total collection of people that were there, one of the best pieces of content about the Mac that I think has ever been made. I think everyone should listen to it if you like History of technology. So

Fair enough. Well, I'll put a link to this video version because you should probably watch the video because Yeah. Steven Hackett, whenever he's on screen, Here's John Saracusa in his office, which is amazing. He's got he's got Macs behind him. And then, when Steven Hackett is in there, he's got his original Mac on the bookshelf, behind him.

Well, here's the thing. You could solve this problem a super lot easier. Just plug in any, you know, USB DVD burner. The problem is you wanna You don't even care about making a DVD of the show. You wanna use iDVD again. That's that's

the only use iDVD.

Yeah. I have one of those too. I've seen a drawer that if I had to bend over, I I bought out my chair, but I do have basically the same thing.

So This is what I used to rip, Ford v Ferrari.

There you go. That's my

Blu ray drive. So we'll put a link to that. So that's the show, our personal tech 40 years of the Mac. We're gonna go record a bonus episode talking about Google Slides, Keynote, and all of that. So again if you wanna listen to the bonus episodes or just support the show, Even you just wanna support, just to support, you can go do that directly in Apple Podcasts or at primarytech.fm.