Apple vs Meta: Who Actually Innovates? TikTok Ban Update, Sonos CEO is Out, iPhone 17 Thick

Can't innovate anymore, my welcome to Primary Technology, the show about the tech news that matters. This week is TikTok banned. Is it happening this Sunday? We're gonna cover that. Plus the Sonos CEO and several other executives are out with a new interim CEO.

It's cold, but it's good.

It's good. Jason posts a photo, pretty much annually about the snow, Huge snow around surrounding his office, which is a shed in his backyard. And that's very nice.

I have one social media stick that works. And it's just every year when we get our first big as if I've never done it before, I just post about how we're now entering our Narnia era. And

No. No. You have popular social media posts when you say controversial things and then they

That's true.

Troll you.

That's true. And there but there was nothing controversial about my Narnia post.

No. No. No. Fair enough. It's just nice snow. I forgot to ask you about the movie quote last week, so I have to do that in a second. But, obviously, you know where the quote is from this week.

Yeah. It's not a movie quote, though.

It's not a movie quote.

It's still Schiller. And wasn't he referring to the Mac Pro maybe?

That's right. I mean, it's you know?

Which is ironic considering how stagnant that product is.

That is that is true. Anyway, that's part that's for the second half of the show. We have

to get a

lot of information. But last week, I had, a quote. I said, you woke up at C Tech, s f o l a x, O'Hare, Lose Power. Yeah. Do you know what it's from?

Fight Club.

There you go. Yeah. You got it. I've actually never seen it. I'm gonna be honest. I have to see that. Someone with a movie podcast is probably required. So Yeah.

I would actually I would. It'd be worth the membership I pay for months to just hear you 2 talk about Fight Club.

Really? Okay. I'll find it.

It's there's just so I would love to hear Nate talk about Fight Club, to be honest.

I have to okay. But before we get into the news, Jason, I have to tell you something that's been weighing on my mind, and I just have to I have to get it out. Okay?

You have

no idea what I'm about to tell you. I did a big, USB microphone review, for Riverside. I I had, like, 12 microphones that I ordered off Amazon, and I was going to return them all yesterday, packed them all up in boxes, got all the things, and I realized once I got home that I forgot to put one of the microphones in the box. So this is the Yeti studio, and when I got home and sat back at my desk from the UPS store, my heart just sank. And, Jason, I don't know what's gonna happen.

Hold on. Hold on. You paid for this microphone? Yes. And you sent back an empty box?

Apparently. That that was not my intention. I've returned many things to Amazon over the years.

You're way, way, way overthinking this. You just own it now. Well I'm just saying you bought a bike. You paid for it.

Want it, though. I don't want it. So I'm I don't know what happens. I guess Amazon will send me an email, like, hey, doofus. Like, you didn't put this in the box.

Oh, you ordered it from Amazon? Yeah. You're you're probably fine. Just just they're gonna just give you the refund and be, like,

I'm so scared. I'm just so scared because, like, they're gonna open this box and, like, this man is a criminal. But I don't know

if they they'll just not give you a refund, Steven.

I know.

I know that's and

there there's also 3 other mics in that same box, so hopefully, they will see, like, okay. He's at least partially honest. It was it was totally For

our listeners, what Steven is doing right now is he's trying to create an out like, a public record of I didn't so, like, later later when he's gone this this is gonna be introduced as evidence in whatever happened here.

The the supreme court's gonna hear the TikTok case, and then it's gonna be me right after it talking about this microphone I didn't put in the box. I'm so scared. Anyway, we'll see what happens. We have lots to talk about, but also 5 star review shout outs, new for 2025, b me o 7 from the Netherlands, battery percentage on, which can I just say I was testing a MagSafe battery the other day, and I turned battery percentage on to monitor it? Looks terrible.

Listen. I'm not a fan of it. This is this is one of the the some of the things we talked about, I just don't care about, but I do I I have just told you what it is I do. Right? But this one, I feel like I was I was surprised to the extent at which people still have the dots.

You mean it because you care. You care for me.

I mean, like, anybody who still has them on and feels passionately about it, I would just tell you if you could make it 2 weeks with them off, you would never turn them back on. I know. I mean it. Like, you would never. It's like someone who drinks cream in their coffee forever, and they just decide, I'm gonna just try just black coffee. If you can make it through 2 weeks, I don't think you'd ever put cream in your coffee again.

Is this how I become an old man? I have to turn the dots off and then drink black coffee?

Are these tests? You ended up buying a Tesla. Right? It's like, hey. Just try it, man.

Well, what's funny is I have the dots on, but I also hide the dock. So it's kinda like I don't see them anyway. Alright.

Yeah. There you go.

But GJ from the UK, the 3rd 5 star review, said we're entertaining an insightful tech chat. So thank you, GJ. Also, battery percentage on, dominant hand pocket, personalized ads off, which we didn't ask for that, but I guess he turned that off on his iPhone. So and he says, Tom.

Good job. He said, Tom.

Tofungus ads not present.

I feel like we can all agree on this one. There should be no debate. Does anybody want those ads?

No. But I also I don't want a bunch of screenshots of people saying I get the toe fungus ads. Although, I'm curious if anybody else besides Jason gets them because maybe they are targeted, Jason. We don't know. Anyway, it's a solid let's get into the news.

It was amazing. Also, I'm kinda surprised because isn't it Grand Central Terminal?

Listen. Here's the here's the thing.

The station is within the terminal.

Well, that's where this was.

But the terminal is the building. No.

No. No. Station is

literally the subway station. Right?

Grand Central Terminal is where the trains are. Grand Central Station is this, where people walk around.

I thought the station was where you got on and off the trains, and the terminal was the build. Okay. I'm not gonna argue.

I I think I think I'm right. People can let us know in their 5 star, rating review. But anyway, they did that, and there was also a silo character that had a basketball game. Did you see this? Someone dressed up in, like, the, I want to go out.

Oh, my gosh. That's terrifying.

It is terrifying. This was on, Mavericks. It was at a Mavericks basketball game, Dressed up in the in the silo suit, which is wild. I do have to say I watched, me and my wife started the second season of silo, the first episode. Did you watch it? Do you watch silo?

I have watched every episode now. I binged all the way through the middle of the second season and then got really mad. This is why I don't watch things while they're dropping. I wait because I

Yeah.

Yeah. Listen. I understand why they do this. I'm gonna pay for Apple TV plus forever. Just give me all the bundle. At once. I'm not like, Netflix has it right. Just drop it all, please.

Well, I watched this first episode of the second season of Silo, and that dude that looks through the little window at the end and says,

please Solo.

The one I don't know his name yet because I've only seen the one episode of the second season. But he says, don't try to open this door again or else I'm gonna kill you. I was too scared. I couldn't keep watching. I gotta

You gotta watch it. I was did you like season 1?

Yeah. I loved it.

It season 2 is good. Okay. It it is It sort of like takes the momentum and energy of season 1 and it sort of stretches it out a bit. Like, it doesn't feel like it's moving quite as fast, but but the reason I think it feels like that is it's like getting into the really good stuff. It's like, I mean, she's in another silo.

Right. Right. Well, I I did really enjoy. Alright. So I'll I'll keep going because, oh, yeah, the marketing is good.

It's so good.

We're talking about the TikTok ban because this might be happening Sunday, January 19th. I'm gonna put an article to an Axios timeline. They actually have kind of the dates and what's been happening, all of that, but the fate of TikTok, we've talked about it, I think, in the last couple episodes what we think is actually gonna happen, but this Sunday is the deadline. We're it's not a ban, quote unquote. TikTok is supposed to sell or divest, ByteDance is supposed to sell or divest TikTok, and if they don't, then the US companies like Apple and Google will have to remove TikTok from the app stores.

He was gonna issue an executive order to say things.

To say things, but he's not president until 20th, so he could not that could not go into effect obviously, before this TikTok ban. So we'll see what happens. Sunday, we will know for sure what happens and but it's looking like and you are putting your money, Jason, on it happening.

Well, okay. I don't know what it happening will be, but a couple of things. One, it's weird that the Biden Biden administration wants to extend the deadline on a law that he signed. Like you signed this law. And the entire reason that they picked that date was because it was the day before the next presidential inauguration.

Like, all

of this was intentional. All of this was done exactly the way that, like, they had, like, designed it. And so it's sort of weird and it feels like this is what politicians do. They literally just want to kick things as far down the road. So it's someone else's problem as possible.

as

I believe. And I, I think that the the oral arguments was it last week bear that out. They do not seem inclined to over overthrow overturn this law, overthrow overturn this law. Different branch of government does that.

Sorry. Yeah.

Anyway, they don't seem inclined to do that. So I think that the Supreme Court is not going to overturn the law. I think that on 19th, the ban will go into effect. What happens after that? I think it's super unclear.

It's very weird. I'll also mention, lastly, on this, the there's another app now called RedNote. It is a Chinese app. Like, even the, like, description and stuff in the English US app store is in Chinese, and it is people are flocking to it. I say flocking lightly.

Also, isn't it? Isn't that the one there's several of these that have popped up, at least one of which is also basically the Chinese version of TikTok owned by ByteDance, the company that owns TikTok. Like, if if you are worried that TikTok is going away, a Chinese owned replacement is really not going to be the best place to go because what do you think will happen? Yeah. It's it's gonna get bad. Like, it's the same thing.

Yeah. It's just kinda kicking the can down the road. So anyway, we'll see what happens on Sunday. We'll cover next week, whatever the official thing was. Also, Sono CEO is out.

He's interim, but I think he wants to be not interim. It's pretty clear. But here okay. Couple of things. Can I I have 2 questions for you? 1st of all, without looking anywhere k. Before he was the CEO of Sonos, Patrick Spence, he's the guy that just resigned.

Right.

What where did he work? What is he most known for?

I feel like not audio. Right? It wasn't audio related. Is that correct? Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. That's correct.

I don't know. Let's say, PayPal. I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, that would have probably been better. No. He worked for a company called r I m. Do you know what they're famous for? Is that

the restaurant thing?

No. They made the BlackBerry.

Oh, really?

Product that could not

Listen. Wait. Wait. Wait. Before I lose all credibility, let me just say, I know RIM. I had a BlackBerry. The saying it is RIM, but it threw me off.

Well, Research in Motion was the name.

Research in Motion. Yeah. That that I know I know it's blackberry. Anyway

Okay. So this guy was, like, the head of sales for blackberry, a product that no longer exists. They stopped making them in, like, 2019 or 2017 or something. I don't even remember when.

When. They

don't make Blackberries anymore because they could not figure out a way to respond to the iPhone. This guy was not a product guy. Right? He came into actually, he came into Sonos as the head of sales. He was the chief commercial officer when he came to and he eventually became the CEO.

I downloaded the new app just so I could see it, but I never used the Sonos app.

Okay.

And and I think that may be one of the differences in experience where if I most of my Sonos gear is just set up with a TV, and so in the bedroom I have a Sonos Beam, I have a Sonos Arc on another TV, and it I I don't typically use them as music players. I just they're the the TV speakers, and so I just don't. And if I ever do wanna play something to it, I'll use AirPlay. I go to Apple Music, I play, and then I AirPlay it. I opened the app and I had to use the app when I was reviewing the Sonos Ace headphones, and it was clear that this thing was janky and it was not great, but I don't typically use the app.

Okay. And then my other question was going to be maybe this is, you've already sort of answered this because you don't use it to play music necessarily. But my understanding is Sonos stuff sounds great, but it sounds really good. That's But that isn't actually the main draw of Sonos stuff. Can you explain for people who don't have Sonos stuff why people are so devoted to it beyond just it sounds really good?

Yeah. But, I mean, I will say Sonos sounds better than HomePods. Like, I did an entire video when the HomePods 2 came out and said, like, the Sonos Beam and a Submini, which is their, like, middle of the range speakers, that combo sounds better than HomePod twos. There's just more bass, you know, standalone sub. So if you just want better sound and that's something that's important to you, Sonos wins if you're if you're going that. And the Aira

Compared to compared to HomePods?

Compared to HomePods. Yeah. I mean, you could get probably Bose systems, you can get your own

If you get a Bowers and Wilkins system spending $12,000, that's gonna sound better than Sonos.

Yeah. But when it comes to, I think, sounding better but not crazy expensive, like, it's expensive, but not, like, you know, over $10,000, I think Sonos is a good option. And I do think the experience, it feels very Apple like. It feels very like the packaging is Apple like. It feels new and modern, and typically the setup is pretty easy.

Great. So I was just curious because, again, not having any Sonos stuff, I understood that it was, like, people are very passionate about it. And Yeah. Yeah. Just for any of our listeners who don't have Sonos stuff, and I don't I don't not recommend it by the way. Like, I think if somebody wanted to send me Sonos stuff, I'll replace all my HomePods today.

Jason, asking for yeah. Okay.

I'm just saying.

Yeah. Yeah. But but you wrote an article about the the new Oh, yeah. Interim CEO, which what's what's his name and what did he write?

Tom Conrad is the new CEO. So Tom Conrad was he's a board member. He was also, part of Pandora, so he does understand music. And he, I think he was maybe at Pinterest. I think so. This is a product guy is my point. So one of the reasons you're seeing this exit of people in the leadership is, one, they eliminated the chief product officer role because he's like, that doesn't make any sense. The product team is just gonna report to me. I know product. So I'm we're just gonna do that.

be broken.

Well, I think the other thing

is, like, Apple has a lot of software things that are buggy. We complain about on this show, like screen time and just in general bugs, but the thing with Sonos is the audio and speakers is literally all they do. Like, that is Right. They're very hyper specialized company, totally focused on audio and that experience. And so when that one thing is buggy and doesn't work, it really feels like, well, this whole deal is not good, like, the whole Sonos deal.

No.

Yeah. No. No. No.

I don't pay the $200 a month.

No. No. No. I pay it for plus. I pay the $20, but that's it.

Yeah. It's worth it for that, but it's

not worth $200. But, yeah, you can tell it now to remind you of things. It's extremely limited. It can only do a maximum of, like, I forget what it is, 10 or 20 tasks or something like that. There's there's, like, a maximum of what it can do.

I think if you well, I think there's 2 pieces of context here that are helpful. So I I I meant to, like, think more about this to write about it because I said gbt sent me their release, but I haven't had the time. But, yeah, it's 10 active tasks at a time during the beta period. And the goal of this is really to try to figure out, like, how people will use this. I think it's interesting to think of this in the context of what Apple is trying to do with its voice assistant, which is to use your personal context to inform the types of things that are happening.

Dingus. The dingus.

Yeah. Exactly. What's his name? The he who shall not be

He who shall not be named.

Yeah. Exactly. So, anyway, I literally can see the see his face, and I actually can't think of the name, but it doesn't matter right now. Harry Potter's nemesis.

Oh, no. No.

It's Harry Potter's nemesis.

That's right.

That's right. Voldemort.

Voldemort. Yeah. Yeah.

Why did I say thank you? Like, there's a voice in my head that just told me who it was. Anyway, this is the best podcast of all time. So I think that if you think about it in that context right now, chat gbt has such a lead on what Apple's trying to do. But what they don't have is the ability to take all of that kind of context.

So I did see I just wanna mention, I was trying to find it real quick, but I think it was a 9 to 5 Mac article that they are thinking it's not that this was discovered or that it's in the beta, but with the Ios 18 dot 3 that they think maybe the contextual and semantic index dingus might be coming in that next big version. 18 dot 3 or maybe 18 dot 4, which would mean it might be coming this

year and Yeah. Like not 2026 like we've heard.

Right. Which Mark Gurman was saying that might not be coming till late 2025 or 26. So I'm curious if and when that beta comes out with contextual Siri, I will get back on the beta train. I've not been on the beta train because I like my less bugs, but if

that's battery. You like battery life. You don't wanna have to worry about your battery percentage, so you just want all of the battery life.

I have such a lot I love battery life. Look, I got I got MagSafe batteries over here. I got this battery over here. This one, I actually did this video that I actually scheduled the video to publish right now as we're recording. It recorded right now at 9 AM or published right now at 9 AM. This is a retractable USB c cable, Jason. Look at this thing.

You know what that is? Something else that could break.

Listen. Oh, but also, you see this handle? You see this little handle right here? Also, USB c cable.

Okay. I wanna say something about this real quick. First of all, best Christmas present I got all year came off of Steven's, referral recommendation list. Actually, I don't know if this is the best one, but I also got the car mount. I got the car mount too.

Oh, yeah. Kinda. That's right.

But I wanna say built in cords to charging battery things. I get it. I understand why they do it because, like, what good is it to have a battery if you don't actually have a cord that you can charge from and then you were like, is it USB C or USB a or whatever? Right. Nope.

Two quick things. Jason held up the Anker 10 k Ultra Slim G2 MagSafe battery pack. In the video that I just published right now, I say that's still my favorite one. It's still the best one. So good job.

I still think this one is my favorite one, but that's just because it sits on a chart. Like, it sits on a stand. So this one actually is a stand. It's it's an anchor one. I don't know what it's called.

Well, I'm gonna show you one other thing. They don't like built in cases.

This is not even on our list, but anyway.

No. This is another MagSafe battery. This is the Romos. You might like this. This one can charge an Apple Watch because it has a little indent right here.

I think did you do a video on this?

I did. Did I

see this? Okay. I feel like I've seen this.

Yeah. You can charge your phone and Apple Watch, but it comes with this tiny little cable, but it's not built in. You can take it out. Mhmm. And so but if you want to charge your phone wired because that will always charge faster, less heat, you can still mag save it to the back of your phone, but then plug in the USB c cable just like that. Pretty slick. Pretty slick. Throwing that out there. You don't like retractable cables.

You have some double a's sitting here too that I have to put in my keyboard in a little while, but anyway.

In your keyboard, That's We'll

talk about it in personal tech.

In personal tech. Okay. That's that's coming personal tech. Alright. One last thing before we talk about Zuckerberg's interview on Rogan trashing Apple saying they don't innovate anymore.

No. Yeah. I mean, either. Like, who is slim? Well, who cares? I I I've heard people talking like, no. I mean, sincerely, like Yeah. We'll talk. I'm gonna say this for personal tech because

Okay.

I don't understand the like, that's cool. But the the just the the killer feature of the new iPad Pros is not that they're thinner. The iPad Pro is like ridiculous no matter what. It doesn't but it just doesn't matter. Like, that is I mean, what there's a threshold. If it was the thickness of my MacBook Pro, that'd be bad for a tablet. Right?

Right.

But the threat the the killer features are tandem OLED or m 4 or they finally put the camera in the right spot. I don't care

how thick it is. Display. I just

don't care how thin it is.

Yeah. I mean, I'm a take my phone out of the case for a second. Oh, which also in my videos. I'm not just pumping my video today, but I will say Ryan London, leather case, first one with a camera control button in the leather case.

Okay then.

If I were to say, if you wanna use camera control, leather case with that. You still

use a logo on the back, though?

No logo on the back.

No. Okay. That's good. Because I I don't I don't like

There's a logo on the side on the very bottom. It's very discreet. But That's

the one thing I love about the Nomad cases is they are

don't do anything.

Branding on the outside at all. And I love

Are you still using the suiti back only? Yeah. It's nice.

It is nice. I really like the leather texture better of the Nomad one, but this one has held up really well. And I think the reason why and also, like, the Nomad one has micro suction on it as well, and this one doesn't. And I try to figure out how to get away with not having it. And I think it's because it goes around the it snaps around the cameras, whereas the Nomad one just has a cut out for that

whole area. Yeah.

So I think that that's they they got it right. I don't I don't know if I love this feel. It's it's it's like it's not fine woven feel.

No. No. But it is

a little bit but I like the leather better. So but I'm gonna keep it.

I still I I have my suit. I was using it for a while, and then I dropped my phone twice. And, I have a screen protector on it, which I don't typically do do, but since I've been using the back, I have a I'm actually using Anker screen protector now, but I do have a couple scuffs along the corners of my phone now because I dropped it.

I

don't think you'll be able to see it. I mean, they're in it, like, indistinguishable. Do you have scuffs?

No. But this is the nomad one.

Oh, yeah. That's a nomad one.

It kept, like, coming apart here.

Yeah. I

definitely like the feel better. It's it's I like the

feel better too. Listen. I didn't think we're gonna ever

This is the worst podcast episode.

No. No. This is why you need to go to youtube.com/atprimarytechshow. I'm about to sneeze. Hold on one second.

Actually what the people love about what what we do, Steven, is we're just real. We just talk. We just That's right. Give our opinions on all of this stuff.

I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's happening. I'm a drop a mark. Slim.

Slim phones. We don't care about the slimness of the phones. We're moving on.

Oh, that's what the whole reason I took the case out was because I wanted to talk about the thinness of the phone. Yeah. Okay. So listen. I mean, thinner than this, I mean, it's really not that big. Right. I don't under like

I just

I mean, lighter maybe would be nice, but it got lighter with titanium. With the iPhone 50, I think it's fine.

I agree. I yeah. Thinness is not the thing that they need to worry about. I agree on the pro ones. Make it lighter. Use aluminum. No one cares. Titanium is great, but, like, just stick with because, like, it the only thing that's noticeable is the difference between the base, the 16 and the 16 pro. I when I take that 16 that's sitting up there, I won't do it right now because it's my camera. Right. It's like these two things are not even the same species. Like, this is ridiculous.

Well, and also, I think, it would be amazing if Apple, like, did this as an experiment, but it would never happen. If they released an iPhone 17 Air that was super thin, but obviously got worse battery life because of the form factor, and released the iPhone 17, like, thick, and it was, like, double the thickness, but you got, like, 3 days of battery, I guarantee you 90 something percent of people would buy the thicker phone.

A 100%. Yep. Yeah. I think you're right.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm glad we could finally agree on something, Jason.

Yep.

Finally. Now speaking of things we can agree on, I know we also agree on today's sponsor because today's podcast is brought to you by Notion. Notion is literally what we use every week for this show. When Jason and I are looking at it right now, even when we're not sponsoring, we're just staring at Notion the entire episode because that's where we have our run of show, it's where we have the links for all the articles. Notion is it powers this podcast, primary technology.

-Yep.

-And Mark Zuckerberg said a bunch of things. He said things like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. Wild statement. Zuckerberg also said, quote, that Apple has thoroughly hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way as, like, AirPods. There would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there, Zuckerberg said.

1st hold on. First of all, there's something even more important we have to do us. A week before Mark Zuckerberg announced that they're gonna lay off 5% of their staff or whatever. And in the announcement where he was essentially saying, we're no longer gonna pay all these third party content moderators. He's wearing a $900,000 watch.

But Okay. Wait. Wait. Just just so our people know that that this is this is real. This is The Guardian arguable. Yeah. Mark Zuckerberg sports a $900,000 watch.

Yeah. Greubel Foresee, like, the it's listen. It's a

he wore a Greubel Foresee handmade one, which retails for $895,500.

Which, you know, I rounded up just slightly. But yes. Anyway

Amazing. I did not know that.

Yes. People who pay attention to watches caught this immediately because they're like, oh, look at his new watch. Anyway, because you well, those are extremely hard to get because they only make a couple of them a year. So anyway, I think it's really interesting and I think it points out like there's a lot of stuff going on with Mark Zuckerberg, you know, and I think it started with accepting a fight with Elon musk. Remember when there's supposed to be a cage match between those 2?

There's supposed to be a cage match. That's right.

Yeah. And I just think that he is I don't know if this is what a midlife crisis looks like for a 100 billionaire. You know what I mean? Like, but clearly, like, he can just do whatever he wants, and there's no one in his life that will tell him no. And, you know, whatever that's worked.

Okay. So Mark Zuckerberg is 40 years old, in case anybody was wondering. I was wondering, so maybe you were wondering too. He's 40 years old. What did Mark Zuckerberg

You're taking issue with my midlife crisis stuff?

No no no. I when you said that, I was just curious. I was curious how old he was. What has Mark Zuckerberg created? Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook from a college dorm room or whatever, and it was based on whatever, a rating system to gauge how attractive

Yeah. Hot or not. It was basically a knock off of Hot or not.

That's basically what he created, and it became a social network, and that that is what he has built. Now, after this interview, many people pointed out, if you look at Meta, the landscape of what Meta is today, WhatsApp is a massive part of Meta, Instagram, now threads. You could say threads might have been a product they invented, but a lot of those things are things that Meta acquired. Meta acquired Instagram and then added a bunch of features that copied Snapchat and TikTok, namely stories and reels. WhatsApp existed before Meta.

Well, okay. I will say this about WhatsApp. It is the best group messaging app that there is. Group messaging app.

That's fine. But it's also not changed in the last 10 years, like, 5 years maybe. Maybe 5 years is more accurate. Like, has there been any, like, new anything about anything innovative about WhatsApp in 5 years?

I mean, how innovative do your group messages need to be?

Exact well, exactly. That's my point. I'm not saying it needs to be, I'm saying, like, we're talking about what has meta innovated. The Ray Bans Meta, which, 1, Ray Bans is making the glasses, and it's just Facebook's it's Facebook's software, and that's one of the things I feel like this entire interview was, I feel like it needs to be said. Meta is a basically 100% software company.

am I The headsets. They make the headsets. Quest.

Again, acquired. Right?

No. But I'm just saying they do make them. Like, those

are the places now.

I just wanna be clear.

The MediQuest, MediQuest Pro. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. They they make the headset hardware. Again, of all the technology categories, probably the least

But they did not invent it. Right? Yeah. Go down

the list.

They did not start Instagram. They bought it. They did not invent stories. They copied that from Snap. They did not invent reels. They copied that from TikTok. Right? Yeah. They bought WhatsApp, which both WhatsApp and Instagram, like, you gotta give him some credit because, like, they're extremely successful. Like, they're multibillion user platforms.

Right? I feel like the one thing that I can give Mark Zuckerberg credit for unequivocally is that he understood what a good product was even if he didn't make it, And he knew what might be a competitor to what he was trying to make and rather than compete would just buy it. Like, that's WhatsApp

Or or copy it. Like, he could see for example, like, what he saw from Instagram was, oh, there's an idea there, But what we have is we have the social graph. We have the platform. We have the user base. And this that's how that's why stories basically cut off Snap is because it was a great idea.

Right. And let's and let's remember Facebook was also not the first quote unquote social network. There was MySpace before that and there was other weird things like livejournal and stuff before that, but Mark Zuckerberg Tumblr. And the Tumblr is still around. So that's, I think, the picture of Meta. Now his claim, Steve Jobs admitted the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. I just made a short list here and I you have another list. What is your list? I I forget.

Well, hold on. I wanna just be clear. The reason that the iPhone 17 is not going to get any thinner is because Apple is just sitting on it, and it'll we know that they bend.

Bend gate was iPhone 6 plus. But yeah. Now

Yeah. My list was of all of the all of the inventions at Facebook. I think that the Ray Bans is probably the most is is probably the example that you could give them credit for. Yes. They partnered with somebody and somebody else is actually manufacturing them, but, like, there really wasn't a category a consumer product category of that type of a thing.

are a

bigger business than the Meta Ray Bans.

The the quote about Steve Jobs specifically, I feel like that's such a easy, like, I'm gonna drop Steve Jobs' name here and it automatically, like, I don't know, is some kind of takedown or whatever. But Steve Jobs passed away in 2011. I still remember where I was. It it it's weird, but So, he passed away in 2011. That was also the year of the iPad release. Am I correct? No, no, iPad was 2009. IPad release 2. Original iPad

was 2.

Original iPad Sorry, I'm trying to fact check myself here. The original iPad was 2010, excuse me, 2010. So right the year before he passed, because he introduced the iPad on stage. That was probably the last big product announcement that Steve Jobs did. After the iPad and after he passed in 2011, what was next?

Trash can, wasn't it?

The trash can Mac Pro is in 2013, and that's when Phil Schiller and I feel like it was the first time Apple ever directly addressed claims that it wasn't innovating. It was 12 years ago, and it was Phil Schiller when they announced the Mac Pro trash can and said, Can't innovate anymore my ASS. So anyway, you had that, but I think the 2019 Mac Pro, I think that was pretty amazing product. The Pro Display XDR, again, quality wise for the time, still very expensive. But if you want to talk about innovative, the m series chips, I feel like everybody forgets about this as a product that Apple makes.

Well and to be clear, he didn't that's not exactly what he said. He said they had what have they invented since then? Now and here's the thing. There's a little bit of a difference that I think is worth make you know, Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just sitting on it. Right?

But you but you can use a DJI drone. And when I fly the drone and take a picture, those pictures end up in my photo library. Well, I can't

But they go through the app.

They have to go through the app, but they'll go to the photo library.

Yeah. I don't have any other metaray bands, but the point is, like, you don't get the same kind of connection.

Yeah. I get it.

As you do with both the audio and with like, you can't use, the voice assistant. I don't believe with the metaray bands. Like, I don't think you can summon the voice assistant doing that the way you can with AirPods. And so I just feel like so there is a point there, but that isn't that has nothing to do with whether they've invented anything.

Right.

I mean, think about it. Like the AirPods alone would be a fortune, what, 100 company.

Right?

The iPad and the Mac alone would be fortune 500 companies. Right? All of these things, like, it's kind of it's it's amazing. We don't think of them because all of them are at the mercy of being compared to the scale of the iPhone and yet on their own, those are huge business. And you could argue like the the AirPods wouldn't exist without the iPhone.

invented a lot. They they invented a lot. I also think, talking about why does Apple live rent free in Zuckerberg's head, the app tracking transparency and the change I forget what iOS version it was that introduced 14.5. What was it?

14.5 was when it actually went into effect because this is when you and I met.

Oh, yeah. There you go. And the Ask app not to track, I mean that significantly affected Meta's business because what is Meta's business? It's advertising. Right. Because Meta Meta doesn't sell hardware products, they don't charge for their services, you don't have to pay to use Facebook or threads or Instagram. They are a ads business. I mean, it is the same with Google. They're an ads business. And so why is Mark Zuckerberg whatever?

I agree. And I I just as far as the is meta transitioning to be Trump friendly? I think, like, I think that is probably true, and I think that that makes sense. We talked about this before. I think that, like, they're all of these companies are prepare preparing for an administration that is far more transactional than, and and I'm gonna, like, use a contrast.

And I think if we remember the Department of Justice, there's still a case against Apple that we'll be seeing more of, I think, later this year, and a lot of it is like the Apple Watch exclusivity on the iPhone and connectivity there. You know, sideloading and stuff in the EU might one day come to the US due to some of these laws. And one of the reasons I think Mark Zuckerberg goes on a podcast on the biggest podcasts in the world and says these kinds of things is Wait.

This is not the hold on. I was you promised me this was going to be the That's right.

Mark Zuckerberg went on the 2nd biggest podcast in the world, right under primary technology, and says these things because he wants these ideas, I think, in people's heads, in lawmakers' heads who and we've talked about it before. A lot of times when you watch these hearings, maybe the DOJ, it's it's hard to believe that these people intimately understand the technology and what's actually happened behind the scenes. And so saying these things to hopefully maybe the Department of Justice case later this year might have some sway, they can call back to these things that Mark Zuckerberg said or whatever as they may regulate Apple in the future. So and speaking of, you know, tech CEOs again having to work with this new administration, Tim Cook and a bunch of other tech CEOs are going to be at the inauguration on January 20th. And John Gruber had one of the biggest takedown lines in in Dairy Fireball where he said rings don't kiss themselves.

It was long he was in the UK.

He was in the UK. It was the Table Manners podcast with Jesse and Lenny Ware for a new interview. So just talked about kind of his personal life and his ideas about retirement which of course, you know, he's still gonna be doing things. He's not gonna sit around. Says he gets about 5 to 600 emails a day, which and then during product, you know, new big events, it becomes way more.

Yes. That's true. Yep. I've been in the I've been in the so there's a Cafe Max in the ring that I that there's 5 multiple ones. But I've been in the big one. And then there's also a sort of Cafe Max ish. I think I think they actually call it that, but it's in the visitor center across the street. So I've been at both of those. It's good. It's it is good food. I don't need fancy, and it's a slightly more fancy than I need. But it's it was really, really good. Like, and yeah.

Hoping to try it this June. We'll see. Cook's favorite meal growing up was fried chicken. He's a big fan of chocolate, especially dark chocolate. His favorite wine is Kistler Chardonnay, personal favorite wine. His favorite pallet of restaurants is Ethel's Fancy and apparently Apple makes jam from fruit trees planted in Apple Park.

I think that's amazing.

That's amazing. That's awesome. And they they asked him about Genmoji. I think this this is good. This is this is like Marques Brownlee asking about Magic Mouse. It's like along the same lines saying, like, do you use this product? And Tim Cook said he was working on a Genmoji, yesterday when he said this. He said, I love Christmas in London. It's like the ultimate Christmas city. He was trying to create a Big Ben with a tree out front. No reveal on it if he ever got it to work, but

What what what does that mean? That London is like the ultimate Christmas like Yeah. I don't I don't understand what that means.

There's a lot of Christmas markets in Europe, and I feel like

you know, Vienna.

They got they got some serious Christmas markets. I don't know.

New York City.

Londoners. I we have listeners over in the UK and London. Let us know. Is is London the quintessential Christmas city?

Or is this just pure pandering? London is a product in our lineup that we love.

I was curious. So anyway, I'll put it I'll link to that interview in the show.

You know, I can't believe, though, that they didn't ask him about the most pressing question, which is if diet or if diet Mountain Dew is your drink, why don't you have it at, like he remember he said that? He's like, I diet Mountain Dew is my favorite soft drink, but I can't have it because, you know, Apple Park is a Coke place, which that's great. I think every place should be a Coke place, to be honest with you. But if you are the CEO of a $3,000,000,000,000 company, I don't think it matters what the contract says. I think if you want a little cooler in your office with a diet amount of dew, you should be able to have it.

I think Tim Cook could have a mini fridge with whatever he wants in his office. Is it for wait. Is there is there a deal with Apple and Coke or something?

Well, every single place that serves soft drinks will have a deal with a distributor. Like, you have to get it from somewhere, and so you'll, like, have a distributor that'll bring, you know, all those boxes of syrup that get put whatever like that.

To be one or the other? Like, you're either a Coke place or

Well, first all, I don't think that there's I don't know of any places that are not, like, bowling alleys or bars that have both. Right? But, like or, like, speedways or whatever. But, yeah, most places have one or the other. So

Interesting. Oh, okay. I would love to know some under the table deal with Apple and Coca Cola.

I'm I'm sure he could just go to the local Safeway and buy cases of Mountain Dew and put them in a fridge. I don't think that violates the contract.

No. No problem. Doesn't. Alright. And you had a great personal tech question. Why don't you lay it on me?

Okay. I wanna know. We talk like, listen people in our situation and by situation, I just mean nerd to, like, gadgets are constantly thinking of, like, upgrading to the next thing to the net, whatever it is. And sometimes I I was thinking about this and I'm like, I don't I don't know if that always makes the most sense. And what spurred it for me is I love the m 4 iPad Pro.

Oh, he's even paying on

this. So much.

He's getting

his it makes him so mad, but it's this Apple keyboard.

That's ridiculous.

No. It's not ridiculous. It's not, though. Well, hold on.

I I

I'm not even saying that this is the best product I use every day, but this is 14 years old, Steven.

That's pretty old.

And I I have no reason to I mean, I have multiple other magic keyboards sitting here, but these are all been sent to me, like, with review units. Like, I would not buy one of these. There's no chance. I do have, what I have one of those Logi Emmick master keys things.

Oh, yeah.

It's great. It's great, but I it's not better than this. Like, I wish I had bought 5 of these.

Jason's talking about the magic keyboard with double a batteries.

Oh, yes. Sorry. I should have told people because not everyone can see this.

It's not as good as the newer magic keyboard with touch ID.

No. It is. It's better.

Touch ID, Jason. You don't have touch ID.

Who cares about touch ID that watch?

It's it's faster.

I have an Apple Watch on. Guess what happens every time I need to unlock my computer? It just does it. I don't need touch ID. And but here's the thing about this.

That's pretty good. I'm actually a little jealous cause I was trying to think, do I have anything that old? And my thing is, you know, we we built this house and we moved in. It's gonna be 3 years in May. So

and

that was kind of like a big reset, cause we moved out of our house of 10 years, and then into this house and I built this studio with that house and so there's so much that is pretty much new that we got with the with the new house. There actually might be a couple Lutron switches that are like almost 10 years old

that

were in the old house first because we didn't have neutral wires in the wall, and those are one of the few switches that actually worked. So there might be some Lutron switches that that are old. But I will say I really there's a feeling you get when you know you've bought something that you can use forever and never think about again. Like there is a comfort in in that. And there's a couple items.

You know what? Okay. I have 2 more. I'm sorry. I know we gotta Wait.

No. Go ahead.

I just realized the we have a Samsung plasma TV in our bedroom.

That's serious.

We got what be roughly around the same time we got married and we've been married for 17 years. And you know what? It's it's 720 p. It's a 55 inch, 720 p. It looks amazing.

and stuff.

And they're just but, like, I'm never gonna buy another pair of wired earbuds ever in my life. Like, why would I do that? These are gonna work forever.

I will say I had a pair this is I had a pair of VIZIO earbuds, which I don't even know if they still make earbuds. But do

they whisper ads in your ears when you listen to things?

This was before it was like that. It was its own company. But it it was these earbuds, and I think I still have them. But it had, like, the flat cable instead of round, so it would tangle less. And they had the silicone tip, so they went in the ear. And they actually sounded surprisingly good. I think they were, like, $30. And I used those for, like, 10 plus years whenever I needed a wired headphone situation.

Yeah.

And I would probably still be using them right now except, Beyerdynamic sent me these in ear headphones that I use, but those were like surprisingly good. I don't know why, but the VIZIO headphones from like 15 years ago, those those were really cool. Jason's getting something else from his back at

the time. Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be able to find them in time, but I just was gonna ask you because those bar those Bowers and Wilkins replaced for me

the Off camera again.

Well, we do remember Apple used to make a premium pair of in ear earbuds?

Yes. With the silicone tips.

I love those. I still have them somewhere.

Yes. And people you know, I I okay. So this is the thing, we would love to hear from you. When you leave us a 5 star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, or if you've already done that, you don't have to do it again, maybe the best place, comment on the post on our in our community, social. Primarytech.fm, or you can just tag me and Jason on on threads, blue sky, mastodon, wherever.

And if it's a TV, I don't think that counts because the old TVs last a long time. But, yeah.

TV lasts a long time. But, but I think the audio gear I was gonna also say my camera, this is the Sony a74. I got it 3 years ago, and it is another piece of tech where I have no reason to upgrade until 8 k becomes pervasive and actually feasible, like storage wise and YouTube and all that kind of stuff. I have the bandwidth for it if you know what I mean. But but I have no I have no desire to upgrade that because it's like fine.

Well I'm I'm glad to hear you'll never upgrade it.

Oh, it's because I stopped having this script and I can't even I can't even use it anymore. Anyway, let us know what is your oldest piece of tech? That that was a fun segment. We're gonna go talk about Starbucks new policy in our bonus episode because Jason wrote about it and yeah, got some thoughts. So if you wanna listen to our bonus episodes, which you have bonus episode every week, I will also I'll reveal a special thing I'm doing next week.