¶ Maternity Leave and Returning to Work
Hey guys , welcome back to the Preview Alliance podcast . It is Sarah back with you today . We are super excited . We keep hearing from you guys . Okay , so what do we do when maternity leave is up or help us work in moms out ? So we heard you were answering you with Ms Lori . She is here from mindful return .
She gives you your favorite tips on Tuesdays , especially from working moms . Welcome , lori .
It's so good to be here with you , Sarah . Thanks so much for having me .
So give our audience just a quick background of what led you to kind of really dive in to being , you know , support and advocate for moms in the workspace .
Sarah . Sheer desperation led me to this role . I am mama to two wonderful redheaded boys who are now ages 10 and 12 . Back in the very early days , when I had , you know , a toddler and an infant on my hands , my husband and I like to joke that at that stage , one plus one felt like 85 .
The wheels were all coming off and I was looking around for supports and resources that would help me navigate that personal and professional identity transition that I was going through .
When I went back to work and I found snarky articles about how I might leak on my shirt or I shouldn't put pictures of my babies on my desk , and other than that I didn't find anything . So I was really setting out to create what I wished had existed for myself .
I wanted a class I could take , I wanted a course , I wanted resources and materials to be like . Okay , here's how you do it without losing your mind . And I did lose my mind . So I'm happy to be able to support others and help them to feel a little less disjointed when they go back .
Completely . You know , we hear from our moms . There's a lot . There's even a hard discussion when they're pregnant to even tell their employer that they are pregnant .
About half of all moms . Studies have shown that almost half half of us are terrified to tell our manager that we are pregnant . I mean , that's not on you , that is a systemic problem that makes it something that we should feel ashamed or guilty about , or somehow we're less committed to our job . So part of my work is really to help reframe that narrative .
But yes , people are afraid .
Yes , I was told . I'll never forget . I was told before I was pregnant we were newly married and for I have a whole staff meeting to not get pregnant , by my boss and I think everybody in the room was just like that .
That really come out of her mouth and you know little to her knowledge , I had just suffered a miscarriage too , so it was like a double whammy for me . But that did kind of set a precedent for everyone in the room , right Like they didn't want you to get pregnant .
Yeah , yeah , and I do a lot of manager training at Mindful Return right , because what comes out of the manager's mouth really affects the culture in a place and how people are going to perceive new parents , and I'm so sorry that happened to you . I wish I could say I'm surprised , I'm not , but it's not good .
And I know my story is not . You know , it's even just from those like blatant comments to under those you know the table , kind of like , well , who's going to cover you ? It's those little things that make moms , already , when they're pregnant , start dreading maternal journey , leave , returning to work . So what do you tell mom ?
So let's say she's pregnant , when is the best time to approach your employer ?
Yeah , there is no one right answer to this , sarah . If somebody tells you , you must tell at this specific time , like no , it's based on your comfort level , sort of how others may have done it in your office . You know what , what feels right to you and your body about when you're prepared to tell someone .
What I would recommend that you do is to not tell someone on the fly , though . So there is an appropriate way to sit down and have the time and space to have a conversation about it . And when you communicate the message , don't communicate the message with an apology attached to it .
It's I'm pregnant and this is what's happening in my life and I'm committed to my role and I'm committed to helping figure out a path forward for us . Right ? You don't have to say I'm so sorry that I'm going to take this time off and I feel off . No , like , leave all of that . You can journal that , right ?
Like , get it all out before you walk in , but then don't bring that message with you to the conversation with your manager .
Love that . And then you know I had high risk pregnancy so I always my maternity leave . I had to start early . Or you know I had to take FMLA because I physically had to be on bed rest . So for that is a difficult conversation , having your employer as well , high stress there .
And I think it's important just for our moms and listeners to know that you do have workplace rights and accommodations . So how do you tell them to navigate that or where's the best place to turn , because sometimes HR is not the best ? Yeah , so for their own research or their own , just kind of advocacy , what would you advise ?
Yeah , so first of all I am a lawyer , but I practice Medicare reimbursement law , so not anything related to the employment space . So I'd say , if you have an employment lawyer in your network , grade or reach out to the local bar . There are two other resources that I often point people to .
One is UC Hastings College of Law in California has a free work life hotline that you can either call or write an email and people will get back to it . It doesn't matter where in the country you live . I've had a lot of Mindful Return . Alumni and community members use that as a resource and found it to be really good guidance that they got .
The other person who I follow on social media and love is the mom attorney . Her name is Daphne Delvaux and she is amazing and offers really , really wonderful resources , particularly around the employment rights space , so feel free to go check her out on Instagram .
I think Instagram is becoming just such a village that we didn't . We don't have , right , we don't have the traditional village , so we're making our own village with some resources , and women are paving this way to make it easier for each other , right ?
It's like , like you said , with your experience , you've put it into a wonderful resource for moms to learn from what you wish you would have had , which is just incredible . So let's talk to those moms who the maternity leave is ending , yeah , okay , and what is some of your tried and true kind of tips , experience that you would tell that mom ?
Because , I mean , that's overwhelming , right , you have a lot of conflicting thoughts and feelings of how is this going to be .
Yeah . So the very first , I have like two overarching principles and then I can get into our themes that we work through . Overarching principle number one is it is a normal thing to do to have a baby and it's also a normal thing to do to go back to work .
I felt very reassured when I read the anthropological research of Sarah Osterhoudt r about women in the Kalahari Desert thousands of years ago who would leave their baby with the village to go off and hunt and gather and things like that and so like people have been doing this for thousands of years . It's okay , it's good .
And the second overarching theme is that the return to work after having a baby is a process , not an event . But like on Monday you're going to go back . Or let's say you're not going back on a Monday , let's try not to go back on a Monday . That's one tip I have . But let's say you go back next Wednesday .
It's not like by Friday you're going to feel fine . I think it took me a year really of growing into being back and this new identity and role . And just remember that , like there's so many wild things as you know , that happened in the first year of a baby's life . So too for your work reintegration . So view it as a long process .
In mindful return land the course that I teach and I wrote a book called Back to Work After Baby we advise new parents to focus on four themes , and those four themes are getting a mindful mindset for return , so basically getting your head in a good place . Then we have different skills and strategies around that .
The second is to get a hold of the logistics right To like do the research on different childcare options and how you're going to have a negotiated conversation about your schedule and all the like logistical things .
The third piece is about viewing the leave and return experience through a leadership lens and really focusing on the skills that you're gaining through parenthood that are going to make you even better at your job .
And then the fourth piece is about connecting with others who are in a similar position , finding your people staying in community as you go through this major life transition . So we try to anchor in those four different pillars . I can go deeper into any of them , but if you only focus on four things , those are the four things I would say to focus on .
I love
¶ Navigating Work and Childcare
that . I love the fact that you said don't come back on a Monday . I think nothing like even coming back from vacation on Monday is like brutal , right . So every entry point and I love how you said it's a process , it's not like a day , it's not like you go back to work that one day and you're just like I'm back in it , right .
And , I think , the childcare . What was very surprising to us and I know it's like this in different parts of the country is the wait list for childcare .
We put ourselves on the wait list the day I got the positive pregnancy test back and even then we had to lobby the daycare . Daycares can be lobbied . You can come up to bump you up wait list , but that takes an active engaged participant amount of time . My husband was the lobbyer .
I think they don't always get a lot of dad voices , so I think it can be helpful to enlist your partner in that effort . We visited one daycare per month while I was pregnant , just to sort of like check them out and see where we really wanted to send our kid . It's crazy , crazy .
A huge fan also of phasing back if possible , and in daycares and a lot of childcare centers and even with nannies and whatnot , you can plan a schedule to help your child phase in over a period of time , right .
So the daycare that we had , I think , had our baby go on Monday for two hours and then Wednesday for three and then by the end of the week he was going for the full day . And I would urge you , if at all possible , to not go back to work the week that you're phasing your child into childcare , but rather to go back the following week if possible .
And why do I say this Because it feels like , oh , but I'm giving up all this precious time with my baby . No , you're helping yourself , work through all of the emotions .
You're going to be able to maybe go get a haircut , have a lunch with friends , figure out some clothes that are going to fit for work , all while your baby is transitioning , so that on that first day that you go back , it doesn't also have to be the first day that your child is starting childcare .
I know it's not possible to line it up perfectly for everyone , but , if you can , the phase in both of the baby and you back into work can be really helpful .
I love that tip . And then thank you , Hedon , for the important part that people feel like it's either I work or I'm home with my child . Here's that time for me .
Yes , yes , where is the time for you ? In the very early days of with baby , like , we know that the margins are teeny , tiny , and so in the work that I do , I really focus on micro self care , on setting boundaries that are consistent , even if tiny .
So here's an example on my commute into work and I know some of us have commuted , some of us don't , but you can implement this regardless Every morning I would ride the metro and then have like a five to 10 minute walk to my office , and during that five to 10 minute walk I every day stopped off at either a hotel lobby if the weather was really bad , or
a park bench and I sat there and turned on insight timer , which is a wonderful free meditation app , and I would listen to a guided meditation or just put the timer on for five minutes and that was my time of , like taking off the mom hat and putting on the work hat , and like pausing the floor , thrusting myself into the next point in your day , and you
think , oh , I don't have time for five minutes , you can't .
You have time , even if it's for two minutes , even if it's for one minute , to sit on that bench and just breathe Another strategy that I still use to this day is my shower , because you know , it's like the couple of minutes when no small person was attached to me in the morning as I was getting ready .
And I have an acronym that I made up just so that I would remember to do this , which is ISS , or is I stands for set an intention for my day . The first desk stands for stretch couple of yoga poses , and then the second S stands for savor , like safer , the fact that you have hot water in the shower and that you have this little person in your life .
It's the gratitude practice , right , and so I know you don't have a ton of time right now and you're just trying to keep a small human being alive , and there are little things you can do every day that make an outsized impact to how you're feeling about your yourself and your work and your life .
So that I mean that is so important and I learned that early on in the newborn stages are oldest . Is that , even if I didn't sleep a lot the night before , which is a lot of times right ? And we know sleep is detrimental on our mental health if we're lacking .
But to wake up before him , even 10 minutes , if I could , right , if I knew , okay , he went town at 5am , unfortunately 6am , you know he's probably still asleep . I get up and I kind of got myself pseudo ready , you know , for the day and had that moment . It made a big impact . It was really hard for me .
It still is now to wake up , when they're waking up and feel like chaotic .
Yeah , absolutely Now , that morning time is amazing . I also on the sleep front for one second , sarah .
So , yes , sleep was very broken in those early days , broken into pieces rather , and I knew for myself that I just simply could not function at all during the day if I didn't have a stretch that was three hours at some point in the night and on nights when I didn't get that and I knew that I was just a major disaster .
There were a few days when I took my child to childcare , went back home , took a nap and then went to work .
And if you need to do that to put yourself back together to be able to like at least sell a chap a day of work , and if it is possible with your employer , to negotiate that like don't feel bad about getting a little bit of rest and sleep before you try to plunge back into work , because you know that you'll be much more able to function if you get a
few hours of sleep .
And what do you say to the moms ? And you know it's a double working family and they're going . You know I feel like I'm working , I'm the one getting up with the baby , I'm the one default parent they like to say you know , and no one's asking my husband these same questions .
And if it builds a resentment and it makes you quickly realize the tables aren't even .
Yeah , the she fault parent , as Ibrahim likes to call it right . So , first of all , like the systems are very broken and we live in a society that teaches us that women are supposed to take on these certain roles on them . We reward men for taking on anything that looks like caregiving .
I mean , this is a really big conversation and the word really is conversation . Right , you and your partner need to have dialogue about this in order to not build
¶ Navigating Household Tasks and Parenting Responsibilities
up resentment . I would strongly , strongly recommend that you read Fair Play by Eve Rodsky . It's a wonderful book . There's a deck of cards that you can get that help you to figure out sort of how to allocate between the folks in the house what the tasks are .
One important principle that Eve teaches in this work is the concept of CPE conception , planning and execution . And she says , basically one person in the couple needs to own the C , the P and the E for a task . So the conception , the planning and the execution for a task .
Often it's the mom who owns the conception right , what the heck needs to happen and the planning for the task , and then she delegates the execution to , maybe to the dad who's like , go get this thing , go do this thing and it doesn't create a system in which there's ownership over it or , you know , a system in which the dad then learns to remember that the
thing needs to happen . And so this is a conversation we could have over many hours . But I'd say , like you need to have regular ongoing conversations about who is doing what . And my husband and I have a Saturday . We have a hot date every Saturday night on the couch . It's called our Saturday meeting .
We used to have a Saturday basket where we sort of threw everything that needed to get taken care of and we did not do all that sort of detritus of life and dealing with all the stuff in the basket during the week . But then Saturday night we sit down and we hash it out .
He and I sit there and we look at our calendar for the week and say like , who's doing what which day ? Who is on point if our kid gets sick ?
You know , have that conversation about who's getting up in the middle of the night , and maybe it's one person from the hours between 10 and three and then it's someone else between the hours of three and eight or whatever . But it needs to be an ongoing dialogue and an ever shifting dialogue , especially as you're returning to work .
Right , because when you were home , maybe it was okay for you to be doing some of the things that are not going to be okay when you go back . So have that conversation . People say to me I don't know how to start that conversation , so here's how you start you .
First of all , don't come up to your partner at a time when , like , both of your heads are about to explode and they're screaming .
You're tired Right .
Yeah , as Ivorodski likes to say , when emotion is high , cognition is low . So we want a time when emotion is low and cognition can be higher . Right ? So here's how you start . You say to your partner you and I share a commitment to , and think of , something that you and he share a commitment to .
Maybe it's to gender equality , maybe it's to raising healthy kids . Whatever it is , we share a commitment to this and XYZ has been happening and I want to just sit down and have a conversation with you about it . The XYZ could be like I've been the one getting up with a baby every night , or it could be like all the tasks in the house are overwhelming .
Whatever it is , you don't have to wax on about it . You can just say this is happening , I want to have a conversation . Can we schedule 30 minutes to sit down and just start this conversation ? It's a very simple , very clear request . Then , really , from there , you can open the door to a broader conversation .
But starting with shared commitments can be a way to not have the other person immediately get on the defensive and see that you both are working toward the same goal .
I love that . I think it's important too . I had no idea how much I could get sick in the first year of life .
They're like little Petri dishes , I think .
I get used to it too , they do . I think that's what moms I hear a lot is like . I just got back , I thought things were okay , I was getting the hang of it . Then here comes , bam , bam , bam sicknesses . It's a cycle every time .
Obviously , we go through the seasons and school comes back and then when you have more children than your baby , even if they're not in that childcare and gets what the older one gets , and you're just like I cannot get off this hamster wheel . Yeah , exactly , I think that they feel like , okay , I've exhausted my time right , maternity leave .
I'm trying to do this . How do I navigate ? You can't change that . Your kid's going to get sick Daycares . They are nannies . They have strict rules about what they will and will not take care . They won't accept your child and some have like a 48 hour . I mean , during COVID it was 10 days . That's a lot .
What do you advise those moms that it's going to happen ? How can we handle it ?
Yeah , yeah .
So the first thing that I always try to do is to make sure that we're talking to managers to let them know that like this is going to happen , right , it's a normal part of life , and maybe it's not the new parents' role to say that , but HR and others can educate managers on what to expect , and that is just one of the things that comes with the territory
. The second thing is , to the extent you do have a partner , I'd urge you to negotiate with a partner how you can allocate time and divvy it up right . So sometimes my husband and I used to both stay home and like I'd take the morning to work and he would take the afternoon to work and we'd sort of hand the baby back and forth .
Many employers offer backup care as a way to fill in gaps and so on , days when our child wasn't super sick , or maybe we were sick , but the chut , whatever , whatever . We needed some backup care . There was a way to have somebody come in to the house and the company was paying for it because they wanted us to be able to work .
And then I think it's really a matter of what's going on in your own head . Right , it's the story you're telling yourself . It's the mantra I am enough today , this is going to pass .
I try to remind myself that when my baby got sick as a baby , that meant that he was going to get less sick whenever he went to school , and in fact I saw that happen in kindergarten , where a lot of people who hadn't gone to a daycare were out a lot more .
And so I feel like I'm building up my child's immune system and just like admitting to yourself , it sucks , if I'm allowed to sit out here Like it's not okay . You're not going to feel happy . It's not your ideal situation and , like everyone else is feeling that way too . Find other new parents to commiserate with and know that you will get through it .
Your baby will eventually be healthier more often , you will be healthier more often and you're doing the best you can . It's that self-compassion pieces , I think , the biggest one that we have to offer ourselves .
I love that , finding people when you're at in life , because it is hard and there is . I have noticed there's a huge shift in just different lives . Would you become a parent if they don't have kids and they haven't went through this journey ?
There can be disconnections and friendships or work friendships or like work roles of understanding , right , and I think you just have to go in and kind of know it . It's just . I always was very helpful to me to find mentors who have walked this road ahead of me to encourage me and say , hey , I survived it .
Right , you know , like , let me tell you it's going to be okay at the end of the day , or you know , you will probably miss . You might miss your school field trip on this time for this work event and it's okay . I think there's this very unrealistic expectations we put on ourselves to wear every single hat and you can't Not .
Well , we're supposed to yeah , we're supposed to work as though we don't have a family and we're supposed to parent as though we don't have a child , and we need to tune out those narratives and tell ourselves new stories . The word that I love to use is Dr Yael Schonbrun's idea of work , life enrichment .
Yes , there are tensions , but you know how you get rid of the tensions it's to not have anything going on in your life right . Just sit at home alone . That's how you have no tensions . So the tensions are just an inherent part of this beautiful , big , wonderful life that we're having , and work and life the rest of life can enrich one another .
In fact , they do right , Like I am absolutely a better parent because I have a professional role and I feel fulfilled in the professional side of things .
I'm absolutely a better professional because I pause every day to parent to be empathetic , to learn from my children , to spend time with them , and so they do really enrich each other in ways that I think we forget to remind ourselves about Absolutely .
Absolutely . What about to the mom who maybe should have time off and now she's ready to re-enter back into the workplace and she wants to use her ? I think motherhood and being a mom and honestly has so many tasks and attributes that is what an employer wants . She's like okay , can I do this ? Yes , you can .
How does she push forward to that stage and say okay , yes , it's time for me , it's time for me to advance my career , it's to me to do what I want .
Yeah , there's a lot of internal work there . Absolutely , I'd say , team up with a good therapist , definitely , I think , reminding yourself of all those skills . Sit down and make a list of all the skills that you've gained through parenthood that are really useful , and it will be useful in a career .
If you look at some of the skills that parents are known for , they're also some of the skills that we want in our leaders in organizations their empathy , their prioritization , flexibility , able to manage crises . I mean these are all daily occurrences . Write those down , and I know that there are . This isn't really my space .
My space is really about the return to work after having a baby .
But if you've been out of the job market for a while , know that it is normal , first of all , to have gaps on resumes and things like that , and there are more and more programs out there that offer return ships , for example , which will get you into an organization for a couple of months in the hopes of maybe getting rehired for longer periods of time .
Momup is one of the organizations that I know works in that space . The PROWIS project helps folks get back into the workforce . There's any number of wonderful groups trying to support that cause for women and you should look to them to get more support .
I think we just want to encourage moms that becoming a mom is a journey , so returning to work as a mom is a journey , right , but there is tools and tips and I think it starts with our I think with everything , mental health is priority and for them to know there are simple tips . I mean they can follow you on Instagram .
We get a Tuesday tip every day , or every week .
Every Tuesday , yeah .
There's an effort that's going to truly make a difference . And then , reading your book , you know that is something I highly suggest and we'll link all this .
But if there's an employer listening right now and they're like , ok , so what could mindful return do for my moms , what would you speak to them and say Well , first , I'd say it's not just your moms , it's your moms and your dads , and we need to de-gender the conversations about parental leave if we're going to normalize them and promote gender equality in the
workplace . So make sure that you're talking to your dads in the workplace as much as you are to your moms .
But second , we partner with almost 100 employers in helping support their new parents coming back to work , and I'd say one of the first things that you can do it doesn't cost any money is to celebrate the return right , to make sure that there's an attitude of we're happy you're back and we're really here to support you through this transition .
And that can come from leadership right that it's important for that message to come from the leadership of your organization . In terms of mindful return , you can send your employees through our programs and help them to have a smoother transition back to work .
Most of our participants take the course while they're actually out on leave , and that's sort of the time when the anxieties are really starting to spike . The countdown clock feels like it's on the like oh my gosh , I don't know how I'm going to make this work and the realities of baby are there , and so participating helps calm down their anxieties .
In our mindful return course , you're connected to other parents who are in the exact same phase , not necessarily from your company , but from lots of different organizations , and it's a chance to normalize the experience that you're going through and just be able to say , oh my gosh , me too I'm having that same exact thought .
Thank goodness I'm not the only one who's thinking that . So the employer can provide that level of support If you don't offer backup care , and it's something that you're able to consider putting into place for your employee . I mean an on-ramp policy that allows a person to come back , say at 50% the first couple of weeks and then 75% the next , et cetera .
That can look any number of ways , but it can really make a difference in having the new parent feel supported and also in their own mental health and helping them ease into that transition back .
¶ Balancing Work and Personal Life Tips
I love that . I remember one of the places I was a nurse at . Someone had come back from maternity leave and one of the fellow co-workers was like hope for vacation was great . And she just looked at him like and it's changing that mindset too , right , yes , it is not a vacation , maternity leave is not a vacation .
So they almost were like here you get the rough assignment because you've been eating bomb , bomb . So that's like that is not what's happening . So it's that conversation too of maternity leave can be very hard .
Yes , and same for the dads . Do not call paternity leave a vacation . Either the mom or the dad , or both , are trying to keep a helpless human being alive . And if you're talking to the dads as well , don't ask them oh , are you going to take any time off ? Say when , are you taking your paternity leave ?
When , not if , and really encourage that to be a common conversation . I mean , there are very well-documented maternal biases in the workplace and there are also well-documented biases against male caregivers , and so if we're going to eradicate that , we need to be having the same conversations with everybody .
I love that . So in this tips , what else is just some quick , just mindful tips you do , because now we're talking to the moms who's they've been in it , like they're like , ok , we're still struggling a little bit at work , but give us some quick tips , lori , that you do , that works for you in the day to day . We know about your shower , you know your .
Exactly , yeah , pause , yeah . So first of all I need to caveat it with . My kids are 10 and 12 . I'm in a different season of life and there's more space for me , right ? And my oldest son walks himself to and from school and I'm like what ? Like how did that happen that I became superfluous suddenly , and I love that .
But it's a new phase , I am entering it and just learning it myself and it means that during certain times of the day and the week , like every morning , I have a 15 minute meditation and yoga practice that , like everybody leaves me alone for and they're awake and it's fine . My husband and I have a habit of swapping off alone time on weekends .
So on the weekend , like I get three hours , on a Saturday , he gets three hours on a Sunday . You know that our kids know to leave us alone . We go do whatever we want . So think if there's a way that you can swap that time . We calendar my husband and I in part of our hot Saturday night date is that we calendar time with our friends .
We calendar time alone . So , like , I make sure in the next couple of weeks I've got a time on the calendar . I'm part of a book club , I'm part of a Jewish moms group Like those are on the calendar and they happen because they're on the calendar .
I mean I just I can't emphasize enough the importance of calendaring with a significant other and like bringing intentionality to that calendaring process . Workouts are on the calendar , like you know , seeing our trainers on the calendar Therapy appointments on the calendar , a haircut on the calendar , right ? So these are things to build in .
I'd say that , like , ongoing intention around connecting with other people is so important too . I had listened to a podcast recently that called friendships the most like anti-capitalist thing we could do , because it doesn't cost any money and it helps us feel so much better when we hang out with our friends .
And so , to the extent you don't block time for yourself to see the people you care about or to reach out and send a text and then just try to get a phone call end up with your best friend who lives across the country , that sort of thing Like emphasize and prioritize that , because those connections are what help us to really feel nourished .
I think it's even more important now because during the COVID area it's like everything was delivered . We could just pull up to something , Like we didn't have social interaction , Like we kind of got that excuse for a couple of years of just like being recluse right Like so now , it's like making ourselves out there and reconnecting .
Like , yes , go to lunch with your friend . Like go see that person . Like , go in the store to pick something up which I know it's . Trust me , my two littles right now . I still do drive up as much as possible for logistical reasons , yes , but if my kids were your kids age , I would love to just go into a store sometimes .
Yeah .
Even , yes , alone A dream even sometimes .
And there's a pendulum swinging right . I mean , we were at home . We were at home personally for 15 straight months with our kids . They didn't have school . It was the 15 longest , or just months of our parenthood journey .
But now it's swinging the other direction and we have conferences and work , travel and all these things that I find that energy is becoming a bit frenetic and I'm an introvert
¶ Setting Boundaries and Prioritizing Self-Care
. I need my alone time and so , to the extent you can remember to check in with your body on a daily basis and ask whether it's too much , whether you need to recalibrate , whether there are things that need to leave the schedule and you need to go back into recluse you know mode for a little bit , just to reestablish some equilibrium within yourself .
Like , remember to do that , that's okay . We need to find that medium space . I mean , right now it's springtime , everybody's like going outside and running around and that's cool and we need to just like keep an eye on our own internal energy .
And another tip I saw all of yours that I love is scheduling need aware , when your kid's spring breaks are fall breaks and taking your break and I loved it you said like put out of office , treat it as like parental leave , and just , you know it's hard because you know , I know for my husband's job now it's like we have to go into like it every three
years . We get essentially get a spring break because everybody has kids at the same school systems at the same time . You know that kind of thing . So I mean there is things that you work out and don't . But if he can , we really try to do that as well and it's impactful for us and our children to have that time and schools are great .
They send out that schedule way in advance for a year .
So take cares for the most part , right , like they'll give you their set closures . But I love that tip , just to like make it work for your family and you take that time too , if you can .
Exactly . There's some research that shows that if you communicate the unavailability and you're , you know , strong with your boundary , and then you come back and follow through with exactly what you're going to do upon your return , that people will usually respect the right to be unavailable Right . And so I think it's about putting in place the communication systems .
So first it's about owning the fact that it's okay to take time for yourself . We have this misbelief that our time and energy is an hour that belongs to everyone else and , in fact , if we want to elevate in terms of our values in our family , like the time that we're spending together , then we need to reclaim it for ourselves .
And interviewing a wonderful author named Dr Pooja Lakshmin , who wrote a book called Real Self-Care , I'm looking at it a transformative program for redefining wellness crystals , cleanses and bubble baths not included and in there she talks a lot about what a boundary is and how it's energetic space between people and the fact that boundaries are not co-created , they're
unilaterally set .
And so I think first you have to get in the mindset of giving yourself permission to set that boundary for yourself and your family , and then it's about communicating and putting into place the systems that are going to allow people to know that you're out and when you'll be back and how to reach you if there's an emergency right , and just to be reminding
yourself that it's okay to sit with some guilt . I think Pooja calls it guilt tolerance , like you have to be able to tolerate some of the guilt if you want to be able to carve that out for yourself .
And I'm working on my guilt tolerance every day . Yeah Right , and you're not with your kids and you're at work .
You're like man , should I be at that soccer game or I could have been at this , and then when I first saw the work stuff , so it's like you're going to have at some point a guilt and you're like you have to be okay if they're uncomfortable and I think people don't say that enough , or guilt .
It's just because you feel something doesn't mean you're doing it wrong or it's not supposed to be there .
Yes , and then Paul Oxman calls it a faulty check engine light on the car . I think that is a perfect analogy . A couple of thoughts .
One I work with a brilliant coach , lauren Gordon , who coaches within the Mindful Return course , and she advises that when you find yourself telling yourself I feel guilty , because I feel guilty because I'm working instead of at my soccer game , reframe that and tell yourself I made this decision because it is so much more powerful .
I made this decision to get this work project done instead of going to the soccer game , so that I could be with my family tonight , for example . So I love that idea of the reframe . Yeah , I'll pause there .
I love that . We say that all the time to our moms as the reframe and that is just and a thought is a thought , it's not actual . Right , like you can always , you can let thoughts pass right and thoughts don't have to dictate our truth .
We get to tell the truth and the facts and I think of the world be a lot better place if we've learned this certain like in high school , right Like in middle school .
You know , we try to teach us to our kids now because we know better , but no one taught us to start early with just knowing your bodies , knowing your triggers , adding a boundary , pausing , like Taking a moment .
Yeah , time management guru Laura Vanderkam writes about the idea that you cannot meet everyone's expectations Like it is not possible . If you were to meet , you know , yours and your partners and your kids and your bosses and your in-laws and your parents , like it's actually not humanly possible .
So when that sunk in for me , I found it very liberating because I was like , oh , I can't meet everybody's expectations , so I'm going to pick the ones to be better to me and I'm going to do those . But I think we have this ingrained idea that somehow we can .
If we just do everything right , if we just get all efficient , if we just make the right to do this , we're going to meet everyone's expectations . And that's not true .
So we have to be able to have the discomfort Bernay Brown says choose discomfort over resentment as her boundary setting you know mantra , so it's better to feel a little discomfort over the fact that we're disappointing some people rather than feeling resentful later that we didn't set a boundary and claim time for ourselves in ways that aligns with our own values and
our own priorities .
And I think it's boundaries are what we put it . I mean , it's not up to someone honestly to like or dislike our boundary . Like our boundaries are a boundary Right and so it's not us setting it and being like please , lori , you like my boundary ?
No , it's like , this is my boundary and I think it's easier what you start setting boundaries for yourself in the workplace and your home , personal relationships . It gets easier because it's it's generally like anything the first time is hard , it's weird , it's uncomfortable .
People are going to we say buck a boundary , but first if you've never sat one with them right , they're going to be like exactly . Wait , who's this now ? And then you're like this is what we're going to do to protect and prioritize the things that matter to me , Exactly , yeah which is hard .
It's a learning process for us all , but I love that you're in the space . We're going to link everything Now . You guys , are you still doing the podcast , you and your husband ? Yeah , we are .
We have a podcast called Parents at Work , and the model for us is that we have a pair of episodes related to a particular industry or roller sector . So right now we're actually recording .
Yesterday we recorded a conversation with two dads who are in professional development or like learning and development roles in their organizations , and then we're going to interview two moms in that role . We recently did two moms and two dads in real estate . We've done two moms and two dads in law and consulting and a whole bunch of other different industries .
So feel free to check out the Parents at Work podcast , and I love cross-pollinating ideas across industries too . So it's nice to listen to people who are doing other roles and see if there are things that you can take from their world and bring into your own .
I love that We'll link all that so our listeners they can be like . I would love to hear what another mom in my profession is doing . And like does she spill the same things that I do ? Yes , I'm sure they do right Like it's .
So we'll definitely call that the last thing we like to always ask our guests , and it's a hard to answer , kind of just one way question .
But what's one thing you wish that you knew before becoming a mom , that you know they could have been something someone told you just like a life advice , or I mean , some people even just said you know , don't get the ones or don't the onesies with the buttons .
You know like it can be anything that resonates with you . Yeah , I'd say I wish I had told myself just like how much fun I would have with my kids over the years and that every stage I was in was going to be my new favorite stage . Like I kept worrying oh my gosh , now he's not three anymore , now he's four , oh we're like , now he's like 12 .
And that's so cool and he can do all these cool things . So I just hope it continues in that direction . But I think I would have told myself that it was going to be more fun than I was imagining .
I love that and that that gives me a lot of you know , because I have four year old , I'm a two year old and it is you kind of get a little sad , right .
You're like they're not doing this anymore , they don't need me there , but then it's like you're cool because you're like well , but you can do that Right , so so it's very encouraging to hear that it just gets better , and I think that's like another lie we hear . It's just like oh , just wait .
Like I hate when people say that to me , like , just wait when that it's like , but just wait because it's going to be like yeah , like it's not going to be more responsible because it's going to be amazing Like you don't like that .
I want to throw just one public service announcement out there , which is that all fourth graders in this country in the United States , have free access to all the national parks , and so from September one through August 31 of your child's fourth grade year , you can go on the National Parks website and get this like free rangers sort of pass .
It's good for both your kid and for the whole family , and so we've used that to take trips to national parks when each of our kids has been in fourth grade , and is something I wish more people knew about , because it's just such a fun way to pair some fun and adventure with family life .
I love that . Look at you coming through all the tips and the tricks and like how to get us out and about , but we're going to link everything . I really hope our listeners just dive into what you have to offer and support , because that's what we need . We're making our own village and we're putting you in our village now .
So awesome , I'm happy and proud to be a member of it . Sarah , thank you so much . I'm glad to have you in my village too . Thank you .
OK , guys , till next time . Returnal . Mental health is as important as physical health . The Previous Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with post-parmed depression and all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy .
Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gaye , each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms .
You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .