120: Vic's Workshop

Shut the door to the TARDIS and do your thing, I'm ready. Any second now, once I open the right window, I will. Okay. La la la la la. Here we go. Right. Welcome to Pragmatic. Pragmatic is a show about technology and contemplating the finer details in their practical application. By exploring the real world trade offs, we dive into how great ideas can be transformed into products and services that

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subscription. Premium supporters have access to early release, high quality versions of episodes as well as bonus material from all our shows, and it's not available anywhere else. Just visit engineer.network slash pragmatic to learn how you can help this show to continue to be made. Thank you. I'm your host, John Chiji, and today I'm once again joined by my good friend, Vic Hud.

I am just Dandy. Thanks for asking. Um I have been wanting to do the main topic for this episode for a very long time, uh, and we'll get to what it is in a minute, but just no surprises yet. Um but yes, so yeah. But I am excited. You picked a good one.

I sure did. Anyhow. Uh so just to kick us off though, just a little bit of news what's happened since the last time uh well, either you and I caught up or listeners of the show caught up. It was like the last episode I had clay on. But um so first of all, um the the big news

In my um, I guess you could say sporting career, which is to say it's not really a career. In fact, it's not even a career at all, but that's fine, uh, is cricket. And uh Uh my so Ben's my third born son, right? And uh he is an avid cricketer and has been for years. And we've been playing at the one cricket club for

fr you know, he's been playing at that cricket club for many, many years and he said to me over the years, Oh, it'd be great if we played a season of cricket together. Okay. Uh when he was in seniors. So this wasn't a school thing. No, not at all. No, no, no. And so we got selected in uh division six, which is quite frankly the lowest division I've ever played played in in my entire life.

You show up when you feel like it, you bowl if you're not, you know, too sore, if you landed on the pitch most of the time, that's probably okay. And uh if you're a the wicket keeper, consider whether or not you want to hold my beer between overs sort of thing. It's not

And I mean that's an exaggeration, I guess, but it's sort of it's laid back and relaxed, or rather it's supposed to be. Okay. But then what we noticed happening is that we had some players that also played in the the next grave up. grade uh um like div four and even a couple of uh ones higher than that, which is technic technically not really uh in the spirit of the game, shall we say.

Uh in any case, uh it got towards the end of the season and we'd already won every single game because the se the the team was stacked with really, really high like really good quality cricketers. So people who should never have been playing in div six and I

was out in the field and it's like I at best I was a div four player at best. But the reality was, you know, there were people on that team that were far better than me and it showed because we just kept winning every single game and not just by a little bit. So Ben and I had fun, but then in the last few games

things got really serious in terms of they just wanted to win the the semifinal and the grand final. And so anyone that they considered was not good enough just got benched. And it started with me and they said, well, you know, we want to go ahead with our str our strongest team or we won't make the semifinals. Uh which is was not true since they'd we'd already made the semifinals. It's just it was just they wanted to tell me a reason why they benched me. It was pretty simple. I just wasn't

to the standard that they wanted. You were supposed to be relaxed and kick kick back and so on anyway. Uh and then Ben, um he then got kicked out on the grand final. And the the reason they gave him that he got cut out of the grand final was that he wasn't showing up to training enough. Of course that also wasn't true. Mm-hmm. So it was all very political in the end and the the leadership at

the cricket club just wanted to win the grand final. So when winning is all that matters, I can understand their rationale. It was frustrating for us because we just wanted to play a g a season of cricket together. Right. And the the way that we were treated by the club, it clearly demonstrated the club's priorities.

Um Ben and I just decided we will we won't go back to that club. So it was kind of a bit of a disappointing end uh to the season. Uh but the games that we did play together, we had a great time. And um, you know, it was it was I'm glad I did it. That's awesome. Yeah, I know, right? I'm glad you guys are good with it. Well, I mean this has happened uh like c can I be clear, this happened like two and a half months ago, so I've gotten s had some time and space to get over it. Okay.

We're gonna m we're gonna move on. Um because I don't wanna go on about it. I'm over it. Uh it's just you know I wanted to I wanted to mention that I actually did play the most of a season of cricket with my son, which is a longstanding promise that I'd made to him years ago and I'm so glad I did. And that's the best part.

But i it was it was a great experience and I'll have those memories when we were out fielding together and and when he was bowling, I was bowling or whatever and we were it was we'll have those m and we we actually batted out together uh in the middle together twice. Uh so that's awesome. You know, like those memories I'll have for the rest of my life. Um so that's it was well worth it. That's the story.

Moving on. Uh so after four and a half years of faithful service, my AirPods Max, original AirPods Maxes, I they started to misbehave. Uh and by that I mean they wouldn't shut off. So, you know

That's a bummer. You get your stuff and you shove it in the bra. You know what I'm saying? Like y you shove it in the bra and it fits good and there's no spillage or anything and it doesn't turn off. It just bleeds flat. That's not true. So there was some no because what I meant was that every single time I went to use it You'd take it out of the bra, you know, you'd get'em out, and you would have to plug it into charge for half an hour before you could use it. Because they were dead.

And because when they were when they died, they were still connected to the last device, so they remember trying to connect to that device. And then it's stuck in this weird I won't connect loop. So then you've got to press down and hold both the buttons.

for a minute, I think it's oh, thirty seconds, sixty seconds, one or the other. And it forces it to reboot, after which you can then connect it to a device and then use them again. So I got sick of doing this. I was doing this for like two months and I'm like, you know what? Um I use these By put them in the bra, you mean the case. Yes. Is is that an Apple term or is that an Australian term?

No, that's an Apple geek term, uh and it's meant to be Um, I don't know, ever so slightly uh judgy that it is an absolute Yeah. I'm just way too far out of the apple loop then,'cause I actually had never heard that phrase before. for. Yeah, well they yeah, I wasn't the one that coined the phrase. I forget who it was, but someone in the Apple sphere coined the phrase the um the AirPods bra. So it's not official Apple, but it's like official Apple.

Well Apple would never call something a bra. That would be some kind of sexual connotation that they couldn't handle. But anyway. Okay. If it was run by Elon Musk, he would call it all sorts of crazy stuff and there would be a There'd be a font line. No, no, no. Yeah. No. You don't want you don't want fart mode on your AirPods? What's the matter with you, man? Come on.

All right, all right, all right, all right. No more musk talk. Um but yeah, so I upgraded finally to the AirPods Max two. And these are the newest ones. Uh I had to wait for them to come out. And instead of getting blue, I got black this time. And actually they look pretty fire, as my oldest son said. Nice. Damn, these look fire in the black. I'm like, Yeah, they look good. Thanks, Al. Right. Yeah, good. Well we got we got kids similar ages, right? So Uhhuh. Yeah. Uh-huh.

All right. So, um they are fantastic. And because I use them for podcasting from time to time, um, you know, I yeah, they are seen I see them as a as a podcast expense. So they were a a great investment and I've been using them for e because I use them for editing.

Uh'cause you can tune out and do all the noise cancellation testing and so on and so forth, make sure everything's all nice and clean and everyone says my audio sounds lovely and clean and yeah, you know, part of it's come down to the editing, so I use it for editing. Let's go. All right, moving on. Nice. Moving on. Uh John has a new shed, and by that I mean I have a slab on the ground and I'm waiting for the shed to materialize on top of it. Um which it will hopefully next week.

What I'm hearing is you have a patio. Yeah. I have a I don't even know if I call it a patio. There's no cover, there's no shade, there's no nothing, there's just a slab and some metal um oh god what they call. Yeah. Pretty sh patio. Anyway. At least here in America it is. Okay. Well there I got a concrete slab in the middle of my front yard. Yay. Anyway, that's fine. It has um it has potential shed energy. So this concrete slab is eventually gonna have walls and a roof? Yeah. Eventually.

Uh Um all right. But not for the TARDIS, just the cars. No, just just for cars this time. So yeah,'cause basically the the problem is that housing is so expensive now in Australia that my kids are we're struggling to get them their own place. Like they can't like they're trying to get jobs that pay enough money to save for a deposit to get a house. It's absolutely horrible. Right. Um, you know, even a unit apartment

things that used to be cheap and just not. So I've sort of reached the conclusion that my kids aren't leaving home anytime soon simply'cause they can't afford to in the market in Australia, which is terrible. Are you gonna build them apartments out there by the Tartus? No, I'm not. Um but what I am doing is I'm accepting the fact that I'm gonna have six cars. Mine, my wife's and then one for each of the kids because my youngest is uh in four months time. You only had three. You got four?

I got four kids. Yeah, I got four kids. I missed one somewhere. I'm very sorry. You did. So you should be mate. I really The number of children I have is not the first thing you wake up in the morning You would think I'd know this at this point. I I I very sincerely apologize. Look it's fine, but the whole concept was I thought you had two boys and one girl. Three boys and one go. Oh yes. I apologize to the missing Chi G son.

The youngest yes, his name is Sam, my youngest, and um he is quite he is the quietest and yet spiciest of all of them. Mm-hmm. So um yeah, the kid's got attitude to spare and he doesn't let you know until you least expect it. So yes, you're not gonna boot them out to the garage with the TARDIS. You're just No, no yet. Building for their vehicles and leave them.

Yeah, basically, yes. For now. So it adds value to the property and For at least one or two of the older ones getting an apartment with the tartar. Yeah. Well I'll see what they say about that. I'll say hey I've got a ready made room. You can only stand up in it, but it's otherwise really warm after about five. No, not in the TARDIS with

The TARDIS. Oh, so you can look at this you can look at this unpainted potential TARDIS. Yes, you can. I really should paint this blue. It's on the to do list, but you know, paint is expensive. Um Seriously though, all jokes aside, like if you could build a little apartment out there, that's a good like halfway step out to being on their own. It is.

Um and that's true. And I I did look into and we have considered the option of um building these things. These days the the ta the coined term is a tiny home. Uh but Traditionally it's been referred to as a granny flat, whatever you want to call it. Uh the idea is we could ha'cause I've got a whole acre, so I could easily build a second house, so long as it's not more than a hundred square metres, uh whatever that is in um in uh square feet.

In any case, so it can't be any more than about'cause my house is big, right? It's a five bedroom house with a built in garage, so it's something like two hundred and twenty four square meters is what I've Nice. Uh single floor, single story. Yeah, it's a big house but it's you know, it also gets crowded and noisy with four kids. Oh yeah. Yeah. Going on. But anyway. Yeah. So um I have looked at the same thing. you're almost not Yeah. Wow.

All right, I want to keep moving because I'm conscious of the time and um the next thing I just want to quickly mention Oh no no no you do apologize, man. The next thing I want to talk about is um I have now gotten into roasting my own coffee. Finally, because I thought about this for me

Full mark oh. Yeah. But the funny thing is, I threw this out there and I copied Marco, Hey, I've finally started roasting my own coffee and then he came back with, Yeah, I stopped roasting mine a few years ago. And I'm like Man, did I miss that memo? And I'm like I was doing it because you You've gone full Marco after Marco abandoned Marco.

Something like that. So I gotta see if Marco wants to come back on so we can just sort of like describe like what his thought process was because things in the roasting water come a long way and I don't wanna go into it too. He's probably just buying it from one of the sponsors or something. I have to confess I haven't listened to ATP in a long time. So I don't I'm not sure what he's I I I I did see I think he's owning a restaurant now, is that correct? Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. That's the thing. So I I I went off ATP there for a while because and I usually get jack of it during the um speculation season with Apple because there's nothing that I can't stand I uh the one thing I really cannot stand Nobody really knows anything. Everybody's just getting it. It's like Well, there was a leak. There was a render. There was uh someone, you know, got out their Ouija board and someone from a past life in the future said something.

They're always out with those things though. I just can't deal with it, eh?'Cause I I'm just like, Well, it could be this, it could be that. So I don't I don't care. Look, I realise you guys want to talk about stuff. That's great.

But I even back when I was really deeply into the whole, you know, Apple blogger sphere, that still irritated me back then. Now I'm just older and crankier. I'm even less interested in it. So normally I go cyclically with ATP. So uh anyway Uh but yeah, I have been listening to A to P on and off a little bit recently and making gratuitous use of chapters to skip to the good bits that I want to listen to.

Um, but the r the reality is that Marco um has just for whatever reason gone off of roasting, but uh w when he was doing it he was using an old school well not old school, but you know, like a larger Bourmore, I think it was a Bermore twenty four hundred or twelve hundred Uh roaster which is like a drum roaster, if I remember correctly. That sounds familiar. Yeah.

If I get done it's probably got to do with that whole, you know, he's got a family and a kid and apparently now a restaurant and he's still running overcast and something's gotta go, man. Yeah. Well that's true. And so what I've done is I've gotten one that's more like an air popcorn popper. If you've ever seen an air popcorn. I I have one of those. We actually love it. That's our favorite method of making popcorn. Yeah, it's really. get burnt, Carly.

Yeah, I know, right? It's really, really cool. So this one there's a company in New Zealand called Cafe Logic, and they've released this product that essentially is a precision uh popcorn popper but for coffee. And um it's really weird. Yeah, it's really, really good. So you tell it it's pre configured profiles. So I'm guessing as soon as they get like perfectly roasted they're light enough that they just blow out.

Not exactly, but it does the blowing out the what it does is it blows the chaff off. So all of the Yeah. Yeah. So the chaff gets blown up to the top and then it's sort of like the um the turbulence catches it in a special catcher. It actually works incredibly well. It's a beautifully engineered product, I like it. And uh it's within twelve to fifteen minutes.

You can roast about a hundred grams of coffee, which is enough for me for probably three days, maybe. That's not bad. Depending on how many I have. And the freshly Yeah, and the freshly roasted stuff is the best. Like I don't even let it sit. Like you can do ready to drink, uh where they roast at a certain weight, a certain temperature profile such that it degasses very quickly, so you can basically just drink it. Right. So anyway, yeah. So I need to do see if

I wanna see if Mark wants to come and talk about it. We'll see. No promises, but uh in any case. All right. Sweet. Wanna keep moving. Right. Last one before we get stuck into the main topic, and that is I have become increasingly annoyed um with well, a lot of things'cause I'm getting old. But specifically AI. And I don't mean AI in totality, but I mean

the people that are using AI way more than they should. Now, I've been Would you mean the uh fake AI generated content forms by any chance? Somebody might have got that idea from your last episode. Yeah. Yeah, well, hopefully not. Uh but yeah that might You should plug back. I was trying to hook you up, man. No man. My la the last episode about photography and a and and AI and everything. No, this is this is Really. Relate. Yeah. Clay was the bomber.

In the context of the network and what I produce is what I mean. So I decided to write an AI policy for the engineered network. So everything that I create I'm now I now have written and will follow an AI policy. And by that I mean an AI usage policy. So basically the only thing that I used AI for ever was transcription. Sorry.

I used a large language model, which is Mac Whisper, and uh the Mac Whisper model I use is the large model from oh jeez, whichever one he pulled it from, I forget now. Um and I use that to create Yeah we did. Is that the same one? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. So I use that and but what I do is I only publish those to my um feed as in the source.

uh transcript file to my feed once I have vetted it myself with my own eyeballs. I will take that and listen to the episode and make any of the corrections that I need to. And I only have done that for about ten episodes of causality'cause it's a lot of work. Mm-hmm. So I don't accept that um an L L M or an automatically generated transcript is is just good enough because they're regularly

terrible, varying levels are terrible. And my problem is that because my show's particularly causality are very heavy and things like Technical terminology, measurements, you know, like standard units, you know, things like well, like whatever it might be, words that normal LLMs will struggle with. You know, I have to go. Generating it and then very carefully. Yeah, because doing it that way is actually quicker than me typing it. And whilst it is a scripted show. Of course.

Yeah, exactly. But whilst it is a scripted show, what I can't do is automatically turn that script into timestamp. So I can't just say, Hey, create a timestamped SRT file or V T T file. Mm-hmm. Uh that's based on this text because it doesn't know how fast I'm reading. So it's the best way to go in my opinion. So but what I have said though is that I had um it's only been one person and you know, I maybe it's an overreaction. I don't

think so because as far as I'm concerned it's a fair statement to make. Someone um came back and had a query slash correction for a transcript file. Then I did not uh I it wasn't one of my transcripts. So this was many, many months ago. This is like six months ago. This is not an overcast one, this was some other system and I f and I can't even remember which one it was now, to be honest. I think it was even on Android, but

So some other software had transcribed one of my episodes, got it horrifically wrong, and they were calling to get me to correct my transcript file. And I'm like, But I haven't done a transcript of that episode. So, you know, no. So I've bound added to the policy, look, um

If it's not vetted by me, by my eyeballs, then it is not an official transcript and I will and no correspondence will be entered into at all. Like I'm not going to respond to you. Like if you come back and say fix your transcript on an episode that was auto generated by I don't care what If it wasn't vetted by me, sourced from my RSS feed, get bent. I'm not I'm not talking to you. Because this is the kind of End result of the I generate an auto reply for that.

Something like that. So yeah, it's really it's it it's it kind of stuck in my neck a bit and I thought about well why what can I do about it? And the s answer is simple. I haven't used AI to generate artwork, I haven't used AI to generate show notes. Um I haven't used AI to for music, I haven't used AI for anything at all. And I just wanted to to state that loudly and proudly, if I may, to say that you know what, this show is actually made by a human for other humans. That's it. Mm-hmm.

I think that in coming years this is actually going to be a big deal. Because I think that people will say I agree. So I wanted to get ahead of the game and say, you know what, here's my policy. Suck on it Or words to that effect. Here's the police. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. If you need AI to do this for you. Please tell me you're gonna edit that.

probably fing gonna. I don't know. I'm just I'm pissed off, man. I'm really fing sick of it, eh? It's like these these people that are generating content that don't know what they're talking about. That don't spend the time and effort that I do and they trying to pass their sh off as credible and it's crap. Right. And it's just oh I just can't even eh. I get it and I agree. Anyway. Yes. Alright, that's it for me. So um so what's been happening with you?

I have no news. Let's get on with the show. Oh, excellent. Well thank you for the update. Appreciate that. That was fantastic. Eager for this report. All right. Well then without further ado, uh Vic, over to you. You're not even gonna announce what we're talking about?

Okay. All right. I'm gonna uh here's the lead in. Dear listener. In my past, in my youth, um I uh did two classes at school that were relevant to this conversation. One of them was metal work where I learned that metal splinters really do build

They do. They do. For this reason. Oh. Oh yeah, and welding is really hot and horrible. So I decided that metalworking was not for me. But the one thing I loved doing was woodwork. And unfortunately, because I had more of an academic bent, I left my woodworking um learning experience more or less there until more recent years when I decided it would be a good idea to build this podcasting booth that I'm actually recording this in right now. AK the Tartish

The TARDIS. That's right. And this thing is Uh is she a bit ramshackled round the edges and not held together by duct tape, mind you. Um better than duct tape, it's um some really long ass screws, and anyway. But we'll get to that. So I thought it would be fantastic if 'Cause this is something that you actually know a heck of a lot more about than me and you are far more embedded than me. And not only that, you've actually made money selling your stuff. So I uh

Some money. I wouldn't say a lot, but I made some. Okay. Well that's more than I've ever made from anything I've made out of wood, to be honest. I mean the best I've got is this podcast booth and it hasn't fallen on my head yet, so I'm gonna call that a win. But no one That is a win. Anytime the project doesn't fall on your head is a win. Because I've had some fall on my head, man. All right. So where do you want to start?

So we are gonna talk about woodworking, and I'm officially about to take this one over, so all you commenters in the past that said Vic doesn't contribute much to quote Chi from Ray.

Suck it. And uh you can edit that if you want. Hahaha What it is. See how I feel. Silvio. I just wanted to do it. So let's let's let's talk about some woodworking, John. I have a question for you. Mm-hmm. What makes someone a woodworker? Um man, this is full-on robot or not sort of territory. Um I think a woodworker would be I would You don't think like it's almost like somebody gave you the answer in some notes.

Uh I'm not reading from the answer from the notes. I want to tell you what I actually think. So I'm intentionally not looking at the notes. Can I Okay. Go. Okay. In my okay, my I'm not I'm not cheating. A woodworker is somebody that obviously creates things with wood um for either artistic or practical purposes and I guess they do it regularly enough that it becomes something that they have some level of skill at.

Okay. Because I don't because I don't if I had um a painting that I'm hanging on the wall and I'm putting a nail into a a bit of wood on the wall, that doesn't count as woodwork. I mean technically I'm putting a nail and wood, maybe that's not really the same thing, but you could argue if I'm putting nails and wood to make a box. That's woodworking, but No, that's just degree in the house. Yeah, okay. Sure. All right. in the painting. Not the box. Uh in my opinion.

This answer is basically the same from absolute beginner all the way to pro. And this is where a lot of people get intimidated and they don't even start because they don't think they can. But all the way from beginner to pro, anybody who cuts or shapes some wood and possibly joins two or more pieces together. That's it. You do either of those two things or those two things combined.

You're a woodworker. And I had originally put someone who cuts or shapes wood and joins two or more pieces together. But then I actually got to thinking about it and I was like, you know, if there's a guy out there with a wood lathe just turning out chess pieces, he's not joining pieces together, but he's still a woodworker. Yeah. So Shapeswood is definitely

And then possibly joins two or more pieces together. Okay. No matter how they do it, no matter how fancy they do it, how complicated they do it, or how elaborate they do it. You're shaping some wood with saws and sandpaper, chisels, whatever. And possibly also joining it together. And that's it. You're a woodworker. Cool. Yep. There are people that'll say, you know, go pro, go home, go pro or go home, all that business. And you're not a real woodworker, but that's that's bullshit. Yeah.

I mean, it's just, you know, it's a hobby that's fantastic for anybody to get into. And if you start cutting or shaping or sanding some wood and And or possibly joining two or more pieces together. You're a woodworker and you have a fantastic hobby, and possibly even a source of income in the future. Excellent. I think um

Well, I I don't know where I'm gonna put myself on the scale, but maybe when we're when we're done, maybe I can go back and review and assess where I land on that scale of beginner to Yeah. But anyway. Have you got any critiques on that description? Any feedback or pushback or No, I think that's I think that's better than my attempt. Um Yeah, I think that's fine because uh I mean I I would say there's also different kinds of woodwork, like for example, like turning wood. Most definitely.

Yeah, it's like turning wood on a lathe is a very different kind of woodworking to just doing basic joints. And then you've got structural and non structural. Uh so you could say, Well, I'm I'm building a like this podcast booth was a was a structural build.

Um, you know, if I've got a table, I'm building a table and chairs, then you know, that's that's different again from if I'm building a planter box or a or whatever else. So I can s I can see there's different kinds uh within that. And yeah, anyway. Well, you've definitely got your different tiers, and I would actually I should say I've been remiss as we go through these notes. Ah, feel free to throw in woodlaith when you

feel it's we're at the appropriate level'cause I actually completely overlooked that. I don't have a ton of experience in that, so I haven't thought about it. Oh yeah. I don't know. We'll see. Uh anyway, we're gonna start at beginner. So nobody should really feel intimidated or afraid to try this. A lot of people have the impression that you need a ton of fancy tools or expensive gear to get started, or that you've gotta start right away with expensive hardwoods and stuff like that.

And I wanna say that's complete BS. You really don't. It's just nobody should be afraid intimidated or afraid. You need no fancier expensive tools to get started. All you really, really need. is a few basic tools and some wood glue and that's going to take you a long way to learn. And it's a really fun hobby and you're gonna learn a lot on the way and you're just gonna have fun creating with it. You can start out with uh construction lumber or inexpensive fence pickets, which

I started with and I made a lot of things with all of these. And you'll make a lot of great projects. And I want there's like if you go down into like woodworking YouTube or Facebook groups and stuff. you're gonna really quickly be intimidated by a lot of people that want you to use Fancy joinery right off the bat, fancy hardwood or exquisite exotic hardwoods right off the bat. But at a beginner level, I want you, John, repeat after me when I say. Pine is fine, pine is Pine is fine.

Pine is full of Sepine is fine. Yes. And by pine I mean go down to your local in the US that's Lowe's and Menard's and Home Depot and And places like that or even ace hardware, stuff like that, and you're gonna get construction grade two befores, which is a two by four, but I like to say two before.

Yeah. Just'cause it's fun and one by material, which is like your one by twos, one by fours, one by sixes, one by eights, one by tens, but they're all made out of inexpensive pine, and they're not great fancy cuts of wood. But they are Cuts of wood. And you can make a lot of really cool things from I made

A really beautiful child size picnic table, which you may or may not be looking at in chapter art right now for my grandchildren. And it was all from construction grade two by fours. I did It looks incredible. I did put some extra work into it. I mean, to be fair, this is not a beginner level project. This is more of an intermediate because I broke out

The router and the power sander, and I really, you know, this was literally for my own grandchildren. So I rounded off all the edges. I smoothed all the edges. There was a lot of sanding, there was a lot of finishing. You wouldn't look at this picture of this picnic table and assume it was construction two by four because I did a lot of work to it. But by doing all that work yourself, if you have the tools, you can keep the cost of the materials dirt cheap. I literally had like

Maybe 30, 40 bucks into that picnic table and materials. The rest of it was just my time. And I just made it really, really nice for my. I was so proud of it. It's probably honestly one of my most one of the projects I'm the most proud of. I I just I love the look of it. It makes me want to sit at it, even though I realise that it probably wouldn't take my ass getting a little bit too big. I would give you the same advice that I gave my grandchildren's parents, which is my son and his wife.

You take an ocean you want to sit on it, sit on the top. Yes. While the bench will hold you. It's strong enough. You're gonna flip her over. Hãy subscribe cho kênh La La School Để không bỏ lỡ những video hấp dẫn Yeah. So I mean you can make a lot of things from just construction grade lumber and I also made a I have made a ton of project from very expensive cedar fence pillars.

In the US here, we can get them, depending on where you're shopping and what time of the season you're shopping, literally like less than three dollars a picket. And you can make a ton of stuff from that. You can sand them, you can cut them, you can make them smaller, you can shape them, you can do whatever you want to. I made a bunch of stuff from Cedar Fence Pick.

Uh, probably at the top of the list was planner boxes. Those are they're kind of a big thing here in the States. I don't know if they are in Australia or not. Um

Not so much, but I do know what they are. You could just make lots of different shapes and size planter boxes that people can put plants in. They can grow tomatoes in or flowers or decorate their porch or whatever with. And uh depending on your market in the States, you can actually sell those and make a ton of money. In my particular market, there's a ton of people selling those, so you can't make a ton of money unless you really stand out. But they're still a fun project to make none. Yeah.

A box for my wife to keep her makeup brushes in. I made little tables and trays to put my cat food bowls on, which Later, because the cats were freaked out by the food bowls up off the floor, it just turned into a little tray after I cut the legs off of it. You can make I made a uh a little stand to hold the coffee pods for my coffee maker, you know, the single serving pod maker.

Mm-hmm. I just you know, I m I cut three pieces of wood and sanded them and shaped them and drilled some holes in'em so that the little pods just sat right in it. You know, you could just do a lot of fun stuff with uh with pine and cedar and just That just gives you something to work with while you get your hands familiar with the tools and the techniques and and the practice of, you know, refining your your projects and cutting and shaping and drilling and sanding and All that co kind of stuff.

So what I love about Pine is it's cheap, it's light, and it's really easy to work with. And and it's Very easy. Yeah. And just it's yeah, all of those reasons combined just make it perfect uh to work with. If m the only the only downside I I would say of pine is potentially longevity, but if you treat it properly, it can last a decent amount of time anyway.

uh some of the heavy woods, depending on what you're using it for. You know, if it's if it's bearing load and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Um but I mean, having said that, this podcasting booth's made out of pine. So It is you're you're right. It's not the strongest of wheels. And like depending on what you want to make out of it, you might want to take it home and let it sit in your garage for a few weeks to a month before you use it.

Just to let it kinda stabilize'cause like pine has really has a tendency to kinda warp as it dries out and stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if you make something with it too soon then that Yeah. Yeah, I experienced that with this booth because yeah. The um well this pine was straight when I bought it two months later. I'm sorry. Why is the top end not the same as the bottom? Well, Checking my squares and everything, I'm like.

I mean, we are talking about construction lumber, so to be fair, like when they buy when people buy these and they construct homes and structures with it. Mm. They put it into a frame so it's got like a top plate and a bottom plate and a header board and a footer board and stuff like that that kinda you know, it one two by four that tries to warp's not gonna warp the whole wall because there's like sixteen others next to it every foot and a half apart. So That's a good point.

But when you're making smaller projects, that is something to think of. Yeah. Like. Straighten it out a little bit. Yeah. Just a little bit. But it was it was fine and the Well, and you were making uh I can't remember the exact dimensions of your TARDIS. Is it five by five or four by four? Uh Um feet. Yeah, it's four by four. Yeah, I think it's the base is four by four. Yeah. And the height is uh eight foot. If those were longer walls, one warped two by four wouldn't do much.

But since you're dealing with such short walls, that's that and then it can Yes. Anyway. Did not mean to derail. Please continue. No, no, no, no. You're good. So we've discussed what kind of woods are are good to get started with. John, what kind of tools do you think you need just to get started? What's the entry level?

Well, uh the first and most obvious one is a drill and uh I mean by that I mean a a hand drill. Um drill presses a whole nother conversation, but the drill and yeah, and just a basic hand drill and these days You can get drills that have got um oh God, I'm trying to remember the the technical name for it. I'm sure you can help me out, but the uh the torque setting for when you're doing in screws and you don't want to over talk screws. The clutch. The clutch. Yes, thank you. Yes.

And then you've got yeah, and of course then you can leave them on drill mode such that they don't do that. Mm-hmm. And Uh so and basic ones will have a forward and a reverse so you can back it out if you have to. Mm-hmm. And um generally they're pretty cheap, lightweight, and uh the obvious thing that goes with a drill are your drill bit.

And um I'd say that that is the absolute starting point. Um if we're not going to talk about hammers and stuff, but I mean technically I guess a hammer and uh some kind of cutting tool. Kind of a gimme, I think,'cause most households have a hammer of some sort. Yeah, I mean I got myself a hammer and everything looked like a nail, so that was fun. Um Sorry. no no no no Um

Damn straight it does and it feels good. Anyway, bottom line is um so drill drill bits and something to cut it with, uh whether it's a hand saw or something a little bit more um well, yeah, I guess Um if you look at power tools, you'd be looking at circular saws and jigsaws, I guess. But yeah. Probably the circular saw, I would say, is a great first saw. Mm-hmm. But you can most definitely go a long way with that.

Anything you can use, you know, to cut your two by fours and your your fence pickets and stuff into into smaller pieces will work just fine. I mean I survived without a circular saw until like I was just using a handsaw. Um up until probably two years before I built this thing, so it would have been six years ago. Mm-hmm. So about six years ago it was the first circular saw I'd ever bought. Right. Um

Yeah, so I did have a oh no, I tell a lie, that's not true. When I did the flooring for this house, when we first moved in twenty two years ago, we bought a sliding compound mitosaur. so that we could cut all of the um click together floorboards. Right. Um and after we done the whole house,'cause it was cheap, the thing was completely knackered and we had to throw it out. So I was... That uh that does happen. That does happen.

It happens when you don't when you're not very good at using one and yeah, it just got trashed, but never mind. If you could've like saved it with like a new blade or anything or like had you done It well i it was permanently attached to the slide mechanism, so you couldn't detach the circular saw and use it. So the whole Well that's the way a miter saw works. Yeah, y okay. But my point is that the slide mechanism got beat and I couldn't Yeah. How did you... Um I don't know.

I'm uh this is your show, I'm not gonna shame you. No, it I don't know. Okay, I w Okay, let's be clear. Um so I Do you let one of the kids use this? You gotta realise this is twenty two years ago. My kids were like um my son had only just been born at that point. So my daughter was what, mm, ten months uh hang on, no, she's a year and something, year and three months old, something like that, I forget, whatever it was.

year and a half. I don't even remember, but she was not that old, so no, she did not use the the s the compound minus or no. Okay. I was being helped out by my brother in law and my father in law. So Um and they did such a great job I would never disparage them and say that maybe they did it. I just know that I didn't do it. But for the reference and time and history, let's just say it's my fault. They helped a lot.

And I do and I am grateful for their help, but at the same time I'm never doing that again. I was there. That was not a fun time. That was three days of of torture, but that's okay. Fair anyway. Okay. Before we move on beyond a drill and saws, uh it's worth mentioning that an impact driver can be helpful and handy, but they're not really necessary to start.

And for those unfamiliar what an impact driver is, is it's it runs on a different mechanism than a drill. A drill is an old fashioned wire brown wire bound motor with brushes or brushless techniques. And if you've ever used a drill to try and drive a screw into like not necessarily hardwood, but even softwood like a two by four, you know, you'll reach a point where it stops and then it tries to break your wrist.

Yeah. Anvil and uh Okay, so basically if you listen to the thing run, it goes rat and that's because there's actually something spinning in a circle. That's an anvil, and it's striking a base plate, and with each strike it turns it a little bit. And like if you want a really basic example

Imagine like if you put a socket wrench on a lug nut and started hitting the end of the handle with a hammer. You're doing that on a smaller scale and in a tighter cylinder. But it's essentially the same thing. So it turns it by impact. And those are really handy for driving screws and fasteners in but you don't have to be able to do that. But if you're shopping for a drill, you can oftentimes find a drill kit combo. That includes the impact driver. So that's something worth looking at.

So I just wanna add when I made this uh sound booth I had never used an impact driver before. I had heard of them but I'd never ha used one or ev ever. So when I went to buy m the tools for this, I did exactly what you just said. I I was in there talking and said, Oh, you wanna get this um standard a new drill, new cordless drill and so on and the guy said, Well, what are you building? I told him, he said, uh

You might want to get an impact driver if we get to have a combo kit. So I'm like, Great, I bought the combo kit. And I can tell you, using that impact driver, and I had some these bolts that I've used, they're like uh I don't know, like an M Like an M eight or an M six, something like that. Anyway, and these are long bolts holding this together. These are are probably a good oh jeez, I don't know, four six inch long bolts that had different lengths and they go in deep.

to hold this thing firmly in place. And I tried initially with the drill, just like I ordinarily would on its um torque settings. Mm-hmm. And it would s it just it just gave up. And then I put the impact driver on it and it was just like boom boom boom boom boom and it just drove it straight in and I'm like, Oh, this thing is amazing. And I'm an impact driver convert at this point. They are so good. And it does not transfer any torque to your wrist at all.

No, it doesn't. It's amazing. Can I tell you the other thing? Yeah. The other thing I found is the amount of heat that it gets generated, like be very careful with the little tip,'cause that thing gets smoking hot. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I almost burnt myself multiple times. Yeah. But yeah.

On the flip side of that, you do have to be careful with an impact driver because it does by nature of how it works and how easy it is to use, you can overdrive and you can drive a screw right through your material if you're not careful. Okay. Now so I'm never gonna admit that I ever did that all the way through. But And I was like, hmm whoopsie, went too far. It it really excels at torquing screws down through tough material.

And like what most people's familiar experience with impact drivers is if you've ever been in the auto shop where they're changing tires and you hear that's an impact driver. And that's Because they can break fasteners loose and they can drive fasteners tight without transferring the torque to the user. And they're not going to be able to do that. They're really, really good. Oh yeah. Right, so we've covered some basic tools. In addition, we're gonna need some like screws and or nails.

Some wood glue, some sandpaper and sanding blocks. And that's really I got another thing I'm gonna mention in a minute, two more things. And I really struggled for whether they should be in the beginner level or the next level. But those things that I just mentioned, those are the absolute beginners. I mean, if you have those things You can start making it.

And like, so what kind of things can we build at this level? You can build cedar pickets and planters are a great start and they can sell well depending on your market. You can start building simple shelves, simple tables, trays. They may not all be closed, but your building boxes are Essentially, like 80% of the time, you can start looking around your house and think of simple projects that'll be fun to make and useful in your

I made several little trays and boxes. I made I think I sent you a picture, John, of the finest cedar pooper scooper for cat litter boxes ever known to man.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Is it correct? Well I think that's a good thing. Go ahead. Yeah. It's just okay. So for the for the listeners, mm-hmm. Um this directory is called The Nicest Pooper Scooper Ever Made. And I believe this. But I'm I mean, I'm looking at this and it's like it's a I mean, okay, it's a box. Uh without a it's got an opening on one end and it's got a handle I'm just It's got a handle and you put a plastic b bag as a bin liner, I suppose.

We we use Walmart bags as the liner for it. And then we've got this little plastic cheap pooper scooper that you buy to scoop the litter box. Okay. And then you scoop the box and dump it in the bag. And then when you're done you can just pull the bag out and throw it away and put a fresh bag in it and drop the scooper in it and you're all set for the next day.

Okay. I I needed to be more organized um with my kitty litter because I just carry the whole bloody butt kitty litter out and just scoop it directly into the bin, which this would be so much easier. Why have I been not doing this? What am I doing? It's really, really simple, John. Oh sick. You're damn right this is now. I can make you some plans for it if you want, but I really honestly I think you're an engineer. You can figure it out.

Don't be so sure. But I mean honestly that is yeah, I agree with you. Um the and you've obviously var um given that a good varnish and everything to seal it up and it looks really Oh actually all it is is it's cedar, fence pickets. Uh the handle I think is pine. Yeah, it looks like. And it's actually a reject from another project that I made, but I cut it and made it fit that. But all it's finished with is uh some uh What's that oil called? Oh Linseed Oil? No. No it's similar. Um Mm. Oily oil.

Dana-seulia. Dana-seulia. Very similar to L C. Always forget a Danish. Yeah. But I thought we were okay with the fumes. So that was wasn't that one of the highlights of the We'll move on. Generally you want to try not to breathe the fumes of your finishing project. But Can't make you feel kinda weird. Yeah. If you're into that thing, maybe Yeah, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Yeah. I also made a little coffee pod stand which is uh Basically it's...

Amen. Three pieces of cedar fence picket and they form like a triangular shaped stand with some holes drilled in them so that I can put coffee pods for the single serve coffee maker in it that we like fill up in advance, you know, for the week and then they're just standing there ready, waiting to go. Mm-hmm.

Like if you get looking around your house, you can just find all kinds of little things you can make out of wood that would just maybe be a little bit useful or maybe even make a big impact in your life. Like Prior to that, our coffee pots just stayed in a plastic bag and a job. Which is here?

I'm actually looking at the I'll put this in the show art as well. Thank you for showing that one, the coffee pod holder. Now I know what the heck that is, because I'm looking at this and I'm like, what the hell is this? Well it it probably looks a little foreign because they're not actually K cups in it, because we have some refillable pods for ours. But it it's the same principle.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I understand. And the giveaway now is the context is it's sitting next to the coffee machine. So now I get it. Cool. I was wondering what the hell this is,'cause it almost looks a little bit like the outside of a Dalek kind of if you flattened it out and I'm like, hmm, interesting. Actually Cool. I must confess that I never made the Dalit connection and that makes me feel sad as a doctor who fan. Es ist so gut, man. Yeah, my head. Freaking cool, John.

It is very cool, all right, you know? Anyway. Yeah. All right, please continue. I'm sorry. All right. But the idea here at this level is just to start getting familiar with the tools, the wood, and some basic fundamentals while you're having fun. You're not looking to make any money here, although you could make some great gifts for family and friends.

You know. You just really wanna just dip your toes into this this new and exciting hobby and just s start trying to shape and cut and sand some wood and attach some pieces together and make something useful. Yeah. And then the last two things that like I really debated on whether these should go in this category or in the next level, but uh Yeah. The first one I think really strongly you could put in this

Pocket hole jigs and screws. Craig and Milescraft are the two biggest names in this space, but there's a bunch of them depending on where you live. And I should mention I've got links for all these in our show notes, which I'm assuming John will transfer to the show notes. Yep. Um absolutely.

And a lot of them most of them I've sent to Amazon'cause they're more universal internationally. Yeah. There's a few things down through this list that are gonna be US centric stores, but uh maybe John can help us. Yeah. So that like with a pocket hole jig, what it essentially does is let you make angled holes in the side of a piece of wood so that you can then use your drill or impact driver to drive screws into it at an angle.

To hold two pieces of wood together and then while the holes will always show the unless you cover them and plug them, which you can do, but they're still gonna be. You know, it's still gonna be obviously there's a hole.

But they let you use the screw and I usually use them with glue and most people do too. The pocket holes can take the place of clamps, which we'll get to in a minute. But they'll they'll hold the thing together while some wood glue dries and it A very basic entry-level wood joinery method that makes it a lot more accessible to a lot.

'Cause when you brought these up, um I struggled to find equivalents in Australia and they do import them, but I don't I couldn't find and I I have a bit more of a dig, but uh I I kind of I have I know you said bringing in Craig was pretty expensive. What about Milescraft? Yeah, I think I found uh a link and I shot you through that, um, I thought. Uh in any case. But my point is that these are all North American import stuff. Like there's no yeah, I don't hm.

Normally there are, shall we say, knockoffs or um cheap um you know, equivalents of pretty much every other tool. But when it came to uh these particular guides, jigs and such. Mm-hmm. Uh I just I struggled to find them. Uh like they they must exist. It's just maybe they're called something different. But in any case, uh I don't have anything like that and it kinda makes me want to buy one if I can if I can get one reasonably

It's actually disappointing. I'm almost tempted to send you one no matter what it costs. Uh let's not do that just yet, but let me give me a crack at it first. But they look like they're really handy and s They are And they open up wood joinery to the absolute complete beginning novice. Okay. So like There's like we'll get later on this list we'll get into more expensive or m not necessarily expensive, but extensive forms of wood journey like

mortise and tenons, box joints, wood dowels, things like that. Yeah. And those are all really cool and great skills to learn and they're fun to do. But for the absolute beginner, pocket holes and pocket hole jigs and screws. Mm-hmm. Open up so many doors for ways to simply join your wood together. Combined with wood glue, the pocket hole jigs and screws

Take the place of clamps. So like you can put the glue on your wood and you've pre-drilled your pocket hole and then you put your pocket hole screw in it. And then they hold until the glue sets and then you just leave them in there. Or you can take them out if you want. Most people just leave'em in there and you've got the combination of the screw and the wood glue. And it just it opens up so many ways to join things together for a beginner.

Yeah. And I'm really sad to hear that you may not be able to find him. Well, I'll keep looking and I'll I'll let you know. But for me I've never I've never actually used one of these things, but they look like they could be really handy. So July noted They're so Should probably keep yeah, should probably keep moving. Yeah. Alrighty. And then our last category for this one, and I really, really struggled. Um it can be an expense.

So in a lot of ways I'm inclined to put it down in the next level. But using it in the entry level, it can save you a lot of time and frustration and maybe possibly cause you to not abandon the craft because it makes things easier. So I'm tempted to throw it up in the beginner. That's brand ailers. Battery or pneumatic, either one. Yeah. And you know, especially if you already got an air compressor.

You can get a uh uh an air powered brand nail gun for like sixty, seventy bucks US. I'm not sure what that translates to in the Australian market. I'm sure you guys have those though, right? Oh absolutely. Yeah, we do. And I I personally do not have one, uh but Uh I do remember I had a f a friend of mine um did have one and watching him just go and um put a piece of sheeting, like as a piece of plywood um sheeting over the over a a wooden uh box frame. It was yet.

So fast. It was just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'm like, Yep. Damn.'Cause I would have been struggling with a hammer and a nail. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I do a great job. I'm I'm pretty good at putting a nail in straight, but I could not beat the speed. Right. That was incredible. And brand nails are a a relatively thin

The the ones I use primarily are 18 gauge. I think that's pretty much what they consider a brad nail. Um I have both battery and pneumatic. The pneumatic works fine, and I have no complaints about it. I got that when I was flooring my house and I needed something for you know, the first few rows of of wood planks and the last few rows of wood planks where you couldn't get the big floor nailer in. And it worked fine for that. Somewhere along the way I upgraded to a battery powered one.

And uh again, I have no complaints against the pneumatic one. It worked just fine, but the battery is much more convenient because you could just grab it and chom chom chom chom. And there's no cord or airline attached to it. Yeah. But uh and I use these a lot. I think the thing I used them the most for was like cedar picket planters and stuff because you you know, you cut those pieces out.

And then you put the wood glue on them to hold them together. And that's what's ultimately gonna hold them together long term. But instead of taking the time to clamp and wait on it to dry and all that, you can just grab your brand nailer, throw a few brand nails in, and that'll hold it till the wood glue dries, and you can just move on with your project. And you don't have to sit and wait. So cool.

Yeah. They are an expense and in some ways the expense would probably put them in the next category. But due to the convenience and the fact that they'll make your job and your life easier while you're trying to learn, I'm kind of inclined to pump'em up to the the beginner level. So you can use your judgment and your budget. Your judgment and your budget to decide there where it fits for you. Right. I kinda like budgment. That's kinda cool. I kinda start using it budgment. Ha ha.

But it is something to think about. And I I think I've covered all my notes on the beginner level. Did I miss anything? You got anything to add? Uh Uh not that I no, not that I haven't already added. I think that um there is I can see why you debated some of the things being in the beginner level and I guess to me it's just uh yeah. I'm not I feel like I'm I'm very m firmly in the pre beginner level'cause most of the stuff yeah, there's some things in there I don't have that I probably should.

Three beginner level. Yeah. Well you know, I like I don't have I don't have a Brad Nailer. I don't even have an air compressor and I don't have these really cool pocket hole jigs and stuff. But you know, having said that, I do have other things from the next level down, which we'll get to. But in any case. Okay. Um s so yeah, I mean what is To the next level down, I guess.

Alright, so let's move to the next level. You've gotten your hands on some basic power tools. You've gotten comfortable building things with the pine and the cedar fence pickets and stuff like that. You've learned how to make some basic cuts and you've learned how to do some really basic rudimentary choinery. And you've also been exhausting yourself with a hand sander and a block and some sandpaper.

Yeah. So when we're going to go into the next level, and I really debated on putting this into the uh the previous level too, but I really decided this is next level. You want to look at a powered sander. Yes. Oh, yes. Because it's gonna save you so much time and effort. unintimidating and expense free as possible to dip your toes in. Mm-hmm.

Truth be told, you can get an inexpensive powered sander pretty cheap, and you really honestly don't even worry about trying to buy an expensive cordless one because you don't need it. It is my opinion, and I for each I consider myself a few levels above where we're talking right now. Not perfer not pro by any means. But I am a few levels above where we're talking.

And I still will not buy a cordless sander because a sander is a tool that you're gonna use for prolonged periods of time. Yeah. And batteries are just inefficient for that. You're gonna go through so many of them. You know, if you're sanding with proper technique, you're gonna start with like a sixty or eighty grit. And you're gonna like my technique is I I didn't actually send you a picture of this, but I'll dig one up and send it to you, so if you wanna use it for show notes you can.

I literally Literally take pencil and scribble all over my wood and start with sixty or eighty grit and sand it till all those scribble marks are gone.

No more. Just enough till the pencil marks are gone. Then you're gonna bump up a grit. And as a general rule of thumb, you don't want to go more than fifty percent of a grit increase at a time. So if you start with eighty

That means you can go up forty. So for maybe you're going to go to one twenty. And you're going to scribble all over your wood again. And you're going to sand it at one twenty till those lines are gone. And then you can add sixty to that because half of one twenty.

So you're going to go up to 180 and you're going to scribble all over it again. And what this is going to do is this is going to give you a really nice flat. I cannot emphasize that word enough. Flat. Smooth surface. Smooth is cool, but flat.'Cause like a lot of amateurs and I must confess I made this mistake too making a stove cover. Um you put a bunch of pieces of wood together and you start sanding on them and like if you've joined pieces of wood together and stuff to make a flat panel.

You know, you really want to push down in it and bear down in it because you want to smooth out that groove and you want to get rid of that seam. But that's just you're hurting yourself in the long run because what you're going to end up with is a rippled circle. It'll be smooth, but it won't be flat. And you really want flat. And that's what scribbling and sanding till the scribbles are gone gets you. And you just gradually work your way up.

And so as I'm describing that, I'm guessing you can imagine that's gonna take a while, right, John? I think what you're describing is the next level that I've never done. I've okay. Yeah, okay. Fair enough. No, no, no, no, for no, no, no, for real. Um So when I okay, when I use a sander, it's usually because uh let's say I've got some, you know, drywall and um I've just put some spec filler over the top, I've done a rough sandback with a sanding block. Mm-hmm.

just to get it down to a level where it's kind of smooth ish. And then I'll get out the orbital and I'll run the orbital over it to make sure it's nice and smooth with a nice fine grit. just so that I can then like d take any dust off and then I can do an undercoat and then overcoat. So more in the context of painting for walls is where I tended to use it. On this sound booth Bye-bye.

think I used a sander at all because I didn't really care about the finish so much. Um think about when was the last time I actually'cause I okay, so I have a corded orbital sander for exactly the reason that you said is that You know, you are using if I'm doing the whole house and I'm doing a whole bunch of walls, mm-hmm, I the battery is just not gonna cut it. It's gonna die. But I also do have a little I call it my mouse sander. Mm-hmm.

And it's this tiny little thing that c it starts out looks a little bit like an iron.

Angular on one end and kind of rounded rectangle on the other. Yeah. The corner's really wet. Precisely what the orbital doesn't do. So I've got that for doing corners and stuff. So if I've I've got cornices and I've had to patch up, you know, on cornices and so on and so forth, then I use it for that. Um but yeah, I d I mean the the whole drawing on it with a pencil and then sending that back, that's brilliant. I never even thought of that. That's that's a great way of

I can't take credit for that myself. I actually learned it from a really great guy on YouTube that goes by uh Stumpy Nub and he actually teaches a lot of really great woodworking techniques and I neglected to put a bunch of these in the notes, but I will before you. So you can include them. Dat is oké. He actually before that I was actually using my sander wrong because I was just, you know, But Vic, that is how one sand Giving it hell.

Yeah. Yes. Give it hell until it's roughly sort of you think it's been ground away to an inch of its way. But when you want a nice I've won standing. Yes, but when you want a nice smoothly polished piece of wood furniture, that's not the way to do it. And this is what I'm learning why my stuff doesn't look that Like drywall. all spackle and plaster sanding. Is an entirely different ball game from wood standing. Um there are some similarities in it in the sense that you're uh sanding.

Yeah. Yeah. But it it kinda stops there. I like it. Okay. Well I think we've sanded that today. Okay. Okay. But the idea is because what you're doing and why you gradually work up through those grits of sandpaper is because and this is the part that's gonna really fascinate you and your listeners to people that are used to listening to the show. So when you look at sandpaper.

Most people don't think a whole lot about it. But what you're looking at is whether you're buying expensive or cheap sandpaper, whether it's actually sand or it's little pieces of acrylic.

polymers or whatever makes up your sandpaper. It is pointed aggressive granules of something attached to some sort of back. That is literally cutting grooves into your wood. And like in the case of a random orbital sander. They'll be kind of like a circular, but not quite circular pattern. But you're literally you're just whether they're small, most of the time they're even at like an 80 grit, they're so small you can't really see them.

But you're cutting grooves into your surface to wear off the surface. And each time you bump up a grit level. It can only do so much with the grit level that was before it because it won't get to the bottom of the grit. That's why you only grow jump up fifty percent grid at a time. Okay. And each time you do, you're taking off less surface and you're not being as aggressive, but you're also not cutting as many deep groups.

So that like by the time you get up to like two twenty for most wood finishes for wood projects, two twenty's a good place. That's that's probably where you're gonna stop. Maybe you might get up to like three twenty. Auto finishers like finishing car bodies and stuff, they're gonna get Because cars are like really, really super smooth polyps.

But for wood, there's actually a level like for a lot of wood finishes, you may not even go up above like 120 or 180 because you'll plug the wood pores and they won't soak up the finish. Hmm. So you gotta be careful about that. Damn. But and that's why you gradually work your way up through those those levels, you know, just raising your grid if you're not.

And then this is cool. Probably I'm gonna jump just a little bit down, still in the same category, but I'm gonna jump to dust management, collection and extract. Because while you can sand without any of that, you're gonna make a lot of mess. And you're going to be breathing a lot of death.

And so go ahead. Yeah. I'm when you brought this up originally when we were talking about this, just texting back and forth, and I shared with you my dust management technique, I think you were slightly shocked. Um I I do have dust masks. Mm-hmm. But I don't have any kind of a dust management system. My dust management system is uh a broom.

And uh maybe the blower if I'm feeling really keen. Right. And my wife will come in afterwards and say, Someone made a mess and I'm like, But I but I just swept it. Did you? Did you really? I don't think so. Anyway, so please tell me how I should be doing it because I'm clearly not doing it. Honestly wasn't as shocked as you might think because I'm not too far ahead of you.

For most of us at the beginner level, we're out in the garage working, we're sanding, we're cutting, we're we're doing our thing. And then when we get done, we open the garage door and we break out the leaf blower and we just blow it all out into the air. Yeah. Winning. That's my strategy. There's nothing wrong with that except Wife disagrees. Well yeah. And my wife would disagree too, because it actually makes its way into your house, whether you think it does or not.

Yeah, that's true. It does. And also there is the important point that wood dust is actually very, very harmful to our lungs. We only usually get one set, John. I'm sure you aware of it. It's funny, you know, I just did the episode of um causality a few months ago about Wittenum, which is an asbestos mine in Western Australia. Yeah. Yeah. And I I also I also covered in there the um similarly related uh dust problem of um artificial stone bench top cutting. Mm-hmm. And

how um sil like lung silicosis and everything from breathing in that dust is extremely bad for you. And I think the conclusion I reached is if you don't know that a dust is safe for you Chances are it probably isn't and you can assume that most dusts aren't good for your lungs, so put on a dust mask for goodness sake. It's like Right. I know it's really hot and horrible and annoying in summertime. I don't care. Just do it.

Because honestly it just there's so many fields that generate so much dust, it's so harmful. And like people tend to like downplay it and not take it seriously, but honestly it's it's as bad as smoking a pack of marboros a day if you're gonna do it for a prolonged period of time. It's really gonna take a toll on you. Wood dust and granite dust. Marble dust, any kind of fine dust particles, they're bad for our lungs. So this is Like

We're gonna dip really deeply in or not very deeply into this. We're gonna shallow dip into this because it's a topic honestly that could be a topic all of itself. Mm-hmm. So we're just gonna briefly cover the basics, but None of these methods should be used without a proper dust mask. If you're doing more than one simple wood project every three or four months, it's time to look for a dust mask. And you could find some inexpensively on Amazon or whatever your local market is.

You just need something that's gonna filter out those really fine dust particles so they don't make it into your lungs because you gotta take care of them. And having said that. You get one set. Exactly. You get one set. I mean, I guess if it progresses to cancer, maybe you can get it on a transplant list and you can get one that way, but most of us aren't that lucky. And I'm not sure I should. That is not that is not a good background.

I was getting ready to say I'm not even sure I should describe that as lucky. No. I mean, yeah. Anyway. At the top of my list, which is actually probably shouldn't be at the top of my list, because it's honestly should be further down, but in the notes at the top of my list. are air filters. There are many commercially available and DIY projects on the market. I've sent Chi pictures of mine, which he may or may not use as show notes for you guys or as or chapter art.

Essentially they're all a box with a fan on one side that pulls air through a filter on the other side to trap small airborne dust parts. I made mine with some pieces of particle board from an old desk that I took apart. And I outfitted a small window fan I had on on one side and uh commercially available at Walmart or whatever your local store is, AC dust filter. On the other side, so it pulls the air through that dust filter. And it was really dirt cheap to make.

Not the most effective, not the most uh efficient model you can have, but it does pull some dust out of the air. And this is probably, like I said, the lowest on this. Because it's probably even if you buy a commercially available one, it's gonna make the least impact. It will make an impact on the cleanliness of your shop and whether or not that fine dust settles.

Or is trapped from the air before it can settle, but it's not gonna change a whole lot for what's going through your lungs while you're working, while you're cutting, while you're sawing, while you're sanding. Next on the list, which should have been higher, is dust collectors and extractors.

And these are essentially a vacuum supply that's gonna pull as much sawdust as possible f through a hose directly from the tool you're using. And uh there's a lot of different options you can get this. You can get

very expensive commercially available dust collectors and extractors, but they all boil down to the same thing. And They're a source of vacuum with a hose that will pull dust from your tool. And the idea is that they should catch as much of it as possible before it makes it into the air. Like I said, there are expensive hardwired solutions with ductwork that run to all your big tools that we'll get to later on. And there are also smaller ones that are very

fancy but an improved shop vac that pulls dust from the tool. But honestly the hobbyist or beginner is just fine with a basic shop vac hooked directly up to the tool. The shop vac will be much noisier than the commercial available desk extractors, and it won't include bells and whistles, but it'll do the job just fine. I actually put mine on a smart plug so I can use Siri and the phone as a remote control for it. No, yeah.

And you can get adapters and kits so that your your shop back hose will connect to your tools and stuff, which is what I've done. So like when I'm using a sander and stuff. And this will actually make your sander more efficient and it'll make your sandpaper last longer if you can hook something up to it that pulls the dust because if your sandpaper doesn't clog up with the dust,

then it's more effective and more efficient. And also it's collecting the dust so it doesn't make it to the air to be airborne or in your lungs. So that's a really cool thing to have. Nice. Yeah. I just want to add oh sorry no l let's go to the dust um the separators or have you kind of But we're actually getting to that. Go ahead.

clone. Sorry. Okay. Um so this next one, it didn't uh until you I I really took time to look at this photo that'll be currently displayed on the in the show notes is uh the vacuum plugged into that separator box. It's sort of set up as a cyclone like a dust separator, I think. Uhhuh. Yeah. Now I many years ago, back in the throes of COVID, my wife said, Wouldn't it be great for us to get a um Traeger

um sp pellet smoker. Mm-hmm. And when we bought the smoker, the the guy that sold it to us, you know, all about add-ons, right? You know, oh you need your pellets and you need this. cleaning uh device. You just put a vacuum in one end and its cyclone separates out all of the ash and dust from the bottom. You clean it out after every so many grills.

Otherwise you start getting fires in there and that's generally frowned upon. So interesting. I actually I know. So I bought one of these things and it just occurred to me that that's exactly what you're describing here and I could actually use the same exact thing

For collecting up dust and so on when I'm sanding in future,'cause it would be very easy to just to fashion a hose and then connect it up and that would basically. Haven't seen what you're talking about, but yeah, it sounds like it would be perfect. So it yeah, it's very yeah, anyway, sorry. No, no, no, no, no. You're fine. That's actually pretty brilliant. Nice contribution. Mm-hmm. I didn't realize that was a thing in like the smoke.

So Well, I didn't either. And then I bought one and I'm like, Wow, I just spent money on this. I'm like, Okay, I guess it does work though. Yeah. It works really well. Exactly. And while your basic shop vac's gonna work just fine, it's gonna suck dust from the sander and your saws and stuff like that that all have dust ports on'em.

Um, you're gonna either A, fill up bags or B, if you're not using a bag, you're gonna clog your filter. So you're gonna go through a lot of those. And a way that you can actually help To preserve the longevity of your filters and bags. is by getting a dust separator Which is a device that sits in between the tool and the shop vac. Most of them are some sort of cyclone device and there's a bunch on the market. I gave a link to the one I have.

John said he's gonna show you a picture to the setup that I have. And basically it's like a uh a circular device that you sit on top of a five gallon bucket. And if you look closely at my picture, there's actually two five gallon buckets.

Because the uh shop vac's actually strong enough that when you fire it all up, it caves in Yeah. So I I stick it in a second bucket and that reinforces the cylinder. So it can't do that. And what it does is it makes like a little mini cyclone between the tool and the vacuum so that the heavier wood chips and dust will drop down into the bucket and they don't make it into the vacuum.

And they'll extend the life of your shop vac bags and your filters by removing the most of the dust before you can. Excellent. And it it sounds like from what you're describing, I never had any clue that that was a thing in like the the smoker and grilling barbecue and I feel really missed on that'cause I'm really big on the grilling. But uh I don't have a lot of smoking experience, so that's actually pretty cool to hear.

Well, depending upon whether I mess up the smoke'cause it hasn't been held at temperature long enough, my kids would tell me that I don't know much about smoking either. Mm. So it depends. But never mind. Um opportunity to learn more. That happens. Yeah. As I've learned with my smoker, please place it out of the wind on a windy day. It will absolutely kill your cooking temperatures, but never mind that. Yeah. All right. So is there anything we need to circle back on on this section?

Uh just a couple of small things. So at this level, you're gonna start looking at some clamps. And oh boy. There are so many clamps to look at. Basically, you're going to look at clamps that match the type of projects you're going to want to build. So you're going to have to do a little bit of your

'Cause there's spring clamps, compression clamps, C clamps, pipe clamps, parallel clamps, so many clamps. And this is where a lot of people when they're getting into woodworking get really into Have two clamps. What? I have two clamps. Right. I've got a small handful, but there's still so many more I can have. I've got spring clamps and some C clamps and I've got some uh

Quick release clamps. Mm-hmm. And there's just there's there's a lot of different clamps you can get. Basically clamps are gonna hold your wood together while you screw it or drill it or glue it together. And they're gonna make sure it doesn't move and they're gonna hold tension while glue sets. And depending on the projects, gonna depend on the type of clamps you need. But there are so many types of clamps. And you really honestly I wish I could give more guidance in this.

It really uh uh th there's a large divergence on the type of projects you're gonna need that are gonna determine the type types of clamps you need. Cool. So you're gonna need to find appropriate clamps and you're gonna need to plan this spin some on your clamps. You can get some bargain options from places like uh in the States here is there's a place called a Harbor Freight. Mm-hmm.

Uh, Chiji may or may not be able to put some links for places overseas or in Australia for you. But that's that's pretty much yeah. And that's that's why I just I put in our notes literally clamps, oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. And then the the next thing, it's it's time at this level to build your first workbench. And I've Build or buy. What's that before? Build or buy.

Uh you could buy. You could buy if you want. Yeah. Honestly though, I advocate for building, number one, because you're becoming a woodworker and it's a thing you can build.

And it's a thing you should build and it g is just gives you it's a great intermediate project that will be useful to you as you continue your journey and there's a lot of different ways you can go about constructing it. So It offers you some creativity in it. There's a lot of different methods and plans that you can dig into, but they're kind of too deep for us to go into, but the possibilities are endless.

But I mean if you really want to throw money at the problem, just buy one. A workbench gives you a To put your stuff while you're gluing it, sanding it, clamping it, screwing it, all that good stuff. And basically it doubles as an assembly table. But by building it, you get one more project you can make.

You get one more thing you can add to your confidence level. You get one more thing that you can show off to people. And uh Chiji may or may not be showing you pictures of mine in my shop bench in in the show art. My workshop bench went through a couple of different iterations. I The first version was I still have the tabletop, but I've gone through two iterations of it. The first version I took particle board and some leftover white oak or no, I'm sorry, red oak floorboard.

boats from hardwood flooring that I had left over, and I made a tabletop surface of those of particle board and red oak floorboard. And then I used some pie and I made a frame around it and a border and I put it all together and that just sat across a couple of sawhores. And then later on down the road I actually stumbled across somebody had some kitchen cabinets they had set on the curb to throw away in the trash. Very wasteful, I might add. Yeah, not right.

So I actually threw'em in the back of my vehicle and I took'em home and I replaced the saw horses with the cabinets, which gave me a bunch of storage underneath the workbench.

And that's actually the workbench I'm still using. So I see you've even got the uh the dual power outlets on one side of it as well. I put into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah, but that's that's really good though. Yeah, right. That's where I plug in my sander and stuff. And uh So it it really it it it really works out well. It gets me a lot of storage and I've got that nice big dead flat surface to assemble on.

Which really comes into place when you're joining a lot of pieces of wood together, like if you want to make a tabletop or something'cause you want a a dead flat reference to go by. But there's so many different options and lots of plans on the internet, on the YouTubes. Just get out there, find what you want, but it's time to build your work. And it's gonna be a fun project for you to make and it's gonna be so useful for all your other future projects down the road.

You're inspiring me to actually build a workbench'cause right now I've got a folding table, which is really not a good workbench at all. You should, man. I had the folding table for a long time and it worked. But a dedicated workbench is so nice. And especially like I c my problem is that it's not steady enough. The tricky part is you want as much space as possible. But you don't want to make the space that you have to work uncomfortable. Mine is like I mean my problem with the

Three point five feet by like five point five feet. I'd really like a four by six, but in the two car garage I set this one up and it Big enough so I can go out there and work without having to move the wife's car from the other half of the garage if I want to, but not so big that it's not usable if at all.

Oh. Fair enough. Well, I'm I'm I am inspired to think harder about that'cause at the moment I had no immediate plans, but I maybe I should. But in any case Um was there anything else on that section or should we move on? I think that covers that thing. All right. I think you've added Yeah. Wood turning as her next? Yes. Okay. Yeah, you a uh yeah. You suggested that I should add so I have added. So I have added wood turning and I don't have much to say um other than

There are several things that I've made on a lathe. The only two that survived were a um essentially a uh a paper towel holder, uh and the other one was a bowl, a wooden bowl. And um so one of them used a um face uh face uh chuck mount uh and the other one uh was using the spindle, if I remember correctly, uh such that uh I took a s it was a square piece of silky oak, which is a beautiful wood to work with, to be honest. Yeah. And um

Yeah, it's such a nice piece of wood, um such nice wood to work with. And uh that was the holder. So that one's just, you know, starting out with a rough um it's been so long, it's been thirty years since I made it, but I mean I still remember how much fun it was making it. And um anyway, so there was that one and then there was the uh the bowl, like I said, which is a combination of pine

and Maranty. So we had two pieces uh of wood which we had to cut into sections and then we glued them um and clamped them together while they set for a week or two. Mm-hmm. Before we then started, you know, we turned into a an or box. We

Turning out of it. Yeah, yeah. So we started out so with something like, I don't know. six, eight layers, I forget what it was, but it created that two tone effect in the bowl. And um I started out by taking the square shape and then turning it into an octagon and then just rough gouging and getting it down to a a smooth shape on the outside and then

you know, gouging out the middle for the um for the inside of the bowl standing and varnishing it. And it was a lot of fun. And I've often well, not often, but every now and then I threaten my wife, you know, we really need a lathe and she's like Well, yeah. You know, in the shed of course. Yeah. And she's like, Uhhuh. Yeah. So that's the problem with a lathe, is that as much as I love turning wood, it's just it's it's a big commitment'cause they're not a little

Machine. And they're a very specific machine. Yeah. So that's all I really had to say about wood turning is that I I really enjoyed it, but at the same time it's it's an it's more of a niche thing and but you you yeah, I mean you can make parts for chair legs. Oh that's what I was gonna say. You can make so many things. You can make chair and table eggs, you can make bowls, you can make if you're careful enough you can make plates and just there's so many things you can make.

It's really cool. It's not a thing I've experimented with yet, but it is actually very fascinating. Cool. Yeah. Anyway, all right. Alright, so what can we build at this level? Well, sadly, I'm gonna disappoint you. We're mainly building the same things as we built at the previous level. Except for Ex Yes. You can build slightly more efficiently and you can start adding a little more complexity and possibly you could start selling things as a hobbyist on Facebook marketplace and stuff like that.

And uh the the the powered sander at this point is really saving you. It cannot be understated. how much time and energy you're saving. While you're still getting comfortable with all the other tools, but you're saving massive amounts of time from the powered sander. It really All right. Awesome. Alright. You're ready to step up to the Yep. A very engaged hobbyist or semi pro.

Yeah? Yeah, well I'm I'm I'm ready, absolutely. Let's do this. Okay. All right. So I'm going to go through these kind of lists, through through this list kind of quickly, and then we can talk about them in more depth if you want. You're going to start looking at things like table sauce, miter sauce. Jigsaws and other miscellaneous tools, oscillating multi tools, routers, routers.

So cool, John. You can start with a palm or a trim router and think about a router table set up later so you can really save time and money that way. And we're gonna start looking at drill press. Any questions about any of these in particular? Um I think so I'm I'm familiar with table saws, mitosaurs, jigsaws. I actually I own a jigsaw. I've had a sliding compound mitosaur in the past. Um I've used table saws before at woodworking. Um

Oscillating multi tools, not so sure what you specifically mean by that. So I've just I've I'm just opening that link there. Um but in any case the um but the routers are the ones where I know a lot of people go on about routers just like you have. Mm-hmm. Um Uh yeah, okay. Oscillating multi tool. Yeah, I get it. So I'm most curious about how would you describe how a router works? Okay. And why is it so cool?

First, let's just really briefly dip into the others just a little bit for those that might not be so familiar. Okay. A table saw is basically a spinning blade that sticks sticks up through a table.

with a fence guide that lets you cut very straight lines into pieces of wood. Uh you gotta be really careful with it because it's probably the number one way in a wood shop that people get hurt. A lot of digits are lost. There's actually a company called Sawstop that makes a pretty cool table saw. They have patented technology in there that uses capacitive touch sensors, the same thing that runs our iPhones. So that basically if you get on YouTube you can find videos of people demonstrating it.

They usually use things like potatoes and hot dogs to demonstrate it, but the second it touches something capacitive like our skin, the blade stops and drops through the table in microfames. So that instead of losing a digit. Pretty cool. You get a little cut or a nap. Really cool, very expensive. But uh table saws are very, very, very useful in the wood shop. If you need to start making straight cuts into pieces of wood.

repeatable and accurate and especially like when you start working with plywoods and stuff the table saw The miter saw most of us use it for ninety degree cuts just. rough cutting, long pieces of wood down into smaller pieces. But they also do m you know, mitered cuts at angles and they do beveled cuts. angles through the wood. Pretty cool. Jigsaws offer flexibility for cutting grooves and shapes and things like that. And also things like a scroll saws and bandsaws.

The oscillating multi-tool is actually pretty interesting. This is a tech that's actually existed for several decades. you probably would most recognizably know it from if you ever broke a bone and had a cat. The tool they used after your bone had healed to cut that cast off was an oscillating multi tool. Somebody along the way realized, hey, you know what? We could use this for woodworking and all sorts of other Because what it does is it

Vibrate. Back and forth very, very quickly. You can attach sanders and various different blades and stuff to it. When it hits a rigid object like a piece of wood or a piece of drywall on your wall, or even a two by four in the wall, or a piece of pipe you're trying to cut, the vibration makes the blade cut through it. However, if it hits something like your skin, which is pliable and moves then your skin just oscillates with it. So it could cut the cast off your arm without cutting your skin.

Right. Cool. And somewhere along the way somebody got the idea. We can attach all sorts of blades to this to do all sorts of really cool things. Um they're called oscillating multi-tools, versatols. There's a lot of different names for them, but they all boil down to the same You clamp a blade on it or a sander on it and it just vibrates back and forth on a very small a very small oscillation. Very quick. Yeah.

Next is routers. Routers are really cool. Routers are a rotary tool with a multitude of different bits.

that can go into the chuck on the rotary tool. Like a drill. But you got all sorts of different bits and and blades that you could put in it. Most people use'em. They'll get their start with using things like roundover bits or if you're a Johnny Eye fan. Yeah. Yeah. They're they're doing those are called edge profiles. But you can also do pattern trimming, like you can attach a pattern to a piece of wood.

And then use like a flush trim bit that's got a bearing on one end and a sharp blade below the bearing or above the bearing that will trace along the pattern while it cuts the piece of wood underneath or above it. And so you can do a lot of really cool things with routers. Most people just spend their time rounding over and chamfering with them, but you can make like the baseboards in your house. Like when you look at those contours and trim on. Those are routers, that's what does it.

Okay. Yeah, that's cool.'Cause I mean uh'cause I'm now I'm getting a better handle on how you would do those complex sort of edge profiles and it just it takes a a bit of furniture and just turns it from something that's just like a like a straight edge or a basic chamfer edge and you can make something like nice and rounded with some grooves in it that looks really, really nice. So if you look down at a piece of baseboard and you look at those fancy carpeting

the top of it. Imagine all of that is a blade that when you ran a straight piece of wood through it, it shaved off everything but that profile. Okay, you're right. That is pretty damn cool. I had some Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've never used a router, I've never taken any time to get my head around them, but the now that I'm getting my head around that as you describe it, that actually does sound really good. It it it makes what you're making that bit extra classy.

And so like if you uh if you were to throw up a picture of my picnic table again, like one of the close up detailed pictures.

Mm-hmm. And you see those nice smooth rounded over corners and edges on that picnic table. So that If my grandkids were to like fall and bump their head on it, you know, it doesn't like puncture their skull or cut their skin or Yeah. Those I did with a roundover bit on my router. Cool. Yeah. All right. And that's what most of us at this level are gonna be using it for. When you get on down the road you can be using it for a lot more fancy.

And then you can also get into drill presses and stuff, which I have a lot of mixed feelings about a drill press. I think it definitely has its place and it definitely has its uses. But there are some jigs and stuff that you can really use to get by the need to have a drill press. They're just they're big, they take up space in your shop, they have a very limited use case, and so I'm kind of Okay. One. Yeah. I don't want to say I'm negative on drill presses, but I'm negative on drill presses.

Ha ha ha ha. I got that vibe. Yeah, I got that vibe. I just That's very strange. There's other ways to achieve the job that tools If you are a type that has to drill a lot of straight holes, uh then a drill press is for you, but for most of the, you know, your woodworkers, that's one of the lowest tools on our list in my opinion. All right. Right, fair enough. So now we've got our hands on all these really great tools which I have Oh no, I have one. I have a jigsaw.

Hey, a tick's all useful, man. I know, and I yeah, and I may have may not have killed m several jigsaw blades from my not keeping it straight, but that's my fault. Anyway. So John, can you tell me what can we build at this level? Well, I think I said before previously, things that you can uh do with that router is just the next level up, it's probably something that's gonna look nice enough that people might even wanna pay money for it. Um

And that'd be like really cool.'Cause right now, like I said before, this has no shamfered edges on anything. There's no finesse to my podcasting booth. And right now you're just sinking. Yeah. Yeah. I know, but just think of what I could do with a router man. Exactly. So what do you think? So basically you're building a lot of the same stuff you could again build at the other levels, but you're still building with a fair bit more complexity.

Start selling things as a hobbyist on Facebook Marketplace. You can also build in much more quickly and efficiently. You're starting to get into things like making cabinals cabinets and tables at a more advanced rate with more details and complexity. You can generally start looking at a lot more advanced projects and joinery. It's probably time to start considering stepping up to some like presurfaced hardwoods and moving away from construction grade lumber and to make more fancy projects.

Especially regarding your tables and furniture. This is really honestly, this is a great place to be. This is where I would consider myself now, except I haven't started experimenting with the hardwoods yet. You've got a fantastic hobby. You're having lots of fun. You're still honing your skills. But you're also possibly making a little spare cash from your efforts in certain markets.

Something as simple as cedar planters can make you a lot of money, as I mentioned before, if you can make them quickly. You're really only limited by what moves in your market and what production and marketing abilities you have. Cool. And for the reason. Really good place at this. For the record, you are doing some of this. Yeah. You are actually selling stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

I've sold some cedar planters. Um, you can throw some pictures in the show notes if you want. I sent you some pictures of'em. Anything I sent you that's already got plants in it or is in somebody's front yard is something I sold. Cool. Pictures in my garage were things I built that hadn't sold yet, but did end up getting Most of what I have sold has been planners. I'm not gonna lie.

Which is fine. You know, I had fun building them and I made a little bit of money from'em and it was fine. It and it funded some of my tools and things to move myself up to the next level. And that probably can't be emphasized enough. You know, you start at those earlier levels and if you can sell some stuff, you can buy some of the tools and things in the higher levels to help move yourself up.

Cool. So it's um so you sell all your stuff through um uh Facebook marketplace, do you or some of it or That's primarily where I sold all my stuff was through Facebook Marketplace. Yeah. It's your workshop. It's Vic's workshop.

Right. All right. Cool. Although my uh marketplace page is actually just attached to my personal account'cause I can't seem to they won't let me attach that Vic's workshop page to the marketplace. I don't know if I haven't experienced enough credibility yet or Maybe I just haven't dug in enough to to fix that. I don't know. But as it is, I have Vic's Workshop, which is a Facebook page, which John can share a link to you, and I'll send you John. Oh, yeah.

Which you can use to like follow where I post new things that I made and stuff. Which showed the picture that probably got John's attention, I think, to make him want to do this topic. Well we'll get to that. I guess. But uh um I post all the things I make there and then I put some things for for sale on the Facebook marketplace too.

Cool. So next next question then Vic is you've reached this point, you're making some money. What's the next level above this level? Uh what would you This level above this level I would almost call the top as a hobbyist, unless you're gonna go completely pro and you're just gonna make yourself a woodworker for a living.

This is the level I call I'm all in, please take all my money. And this is where you Yeah. Here's some money. This is where you're gonna start looking at planers or I know in the UK and I'm assuming this is this way for the Aussies too, they call it a thicknesser. Mm. No, I've never heard of that, but I believe it exists.

And you're also gonna look at jointers or a planer for the Brits and the Aussies.

Definitely for the Brits, I know that. Yes, yes, definitely not that. Okay. And you're gonna start looking at specialty tools for joinery, uh, Fest Tool Domino comes to mind. which is a a brand that's beloved and behated in the US because they're very expensive, but they make very, very nice tools. Their biggest seller is a tool called the Fest Tool Domino, which makes What they call loose tennis.

uh a joinery option and basically it's like a uh mortise and tenon but you don't have the Tinnon part isn't attached to any piece of wood. You're basically making mortises in both sides and then you stick a loose piece of wood in between it with glue. My God, I'm looking at one of these tools right now you're just talking about. I put you a link. It starts at like Three hundred. That's US. Oh my god. Yeah. Man, you'd want to be serious about your mortise and tendon joints now, would you anyway?

Uh uh the people that have'em love'em and swear by'em and there's a for There's a big contingent of people that hate on the company and the tool in particular because it's a very expensive tool. Okay. But it it does it's a one trick pony, but what the one trick and the pony is a very nice one trick pony. It doesn't really work. It does it very well. Yeah. Fair enough. So the planers or thicknessers are basically they they make

It's a uh a lot of people call them a lunchbox planer or a bench top planer. You can send a piece of th wood through it and it makes one side completely flat and parallel to the other side. Right.

The jointer is what the UK and I'm assuming the Australians would call a plane. And it makes one side completely flat and it makes a ninety degree side. Perfectly perpendicular to it. Right. And then you can run the previously flattened side through the planar and then after you've got both sides both of the flat sides parallel and you've got one perfectly flat ninety degree side.

Then you can run it through your table saw, and you've got a nice perfectly straight board with perfectly 90 degree square corners on all sides.

Cool. And what you're doing with that is you're basically it gives you the ability, so what can we build at this level? All the previous But you're running on all four cylinders and really improving your skill set and you can start looking at buying rough cut hardwoods at lumber yards And at this level, you're milling and finishing yourself with these tools.

So you can make your own finished boards to make your projects with. This will save you money on materials, but it costs time and process and obviously getting those tools. And it offers the ultimate in control of your project outcome. Excellent. And that's a pretty pro level hobbyist. You're almost getting Yeah, well some of those tools like that Mortison tenant thing. My god. It's expensive.

Yeah. That's cool though. I mean I the thing is I'd heard about some of these tools, but I'd never actually Yeah, I guess I'm glad that it that people are able to buy this stuff. Maybe there was a time when it was more difficult to get all these tools just didn't exist or went for retail sale. Like you could get'em if you were like a big wood shop or something. But Otherwise, I don't know. I think it's kind of great. It's it's like a democratization, really. Mm, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah,'cause anyone anyone can buy this stuff and do this in their own garage now and do something that is truly professional grade, which is kinda cool. Yeah, it really is. It it opens a lot of doors for a lot of people that would have thought a lot of these things were out of their So I do see that um there is a bit of a debate between corded and cordless, which uh up till ten years ago, maybe fifteen years ago, there was no conversation'cause cordless just wasn't a thing.

It wasn't a thing where it's very expensive and not very efficient. Yeah, it was niche. It was real niche. Right. And like they had like I had a battery drill that I only recently threw away because the lickel nickel metal hydride battery pack was just hanging. The older M I am A. That was Yeah. I know, right. Everything I've got now is now lithium. Yeah. I know. But yeah, so

I my my if I could summarize my opinion, cordless versus corded. Corded is for things that you need long run time or a really heavy duty. Um but if you wanna do stuff that is Uh lighter duty, it's not a full time thing, like you're not running it for hours at a time or half an hour at a time, then cordless is always better. Cause I I cannot like when I run my circular saw.

Um, I keep on wishing to hell it was cordless because you've got to do cord management when you're using the damn thing. It is such a pain in the neck. Um just curious on your thoughts on that. I agree one hundred percent with that. It's it's all about runtime and and the application of the tool, like you just said. Some of the other tools I mentioned, I already specifically said Sanders should always be core. Just because of the way they run. Yeah. Planers, joiners, and things like that.

Always courted. They they draw a lot of power and they run for prolonged periods of time. And you're just gonna frustrate yourself with. Trying to constantly charge and swap batteries using cordless tools for the purpose.

So one of the things about brands that I don't like about cordless though is with corded tools the power outlet is the power outlet. You know what I mean? Yeah. Plug it in, away you go. Extension leads, they're all the same. But no, no, no. Cordless tools, of course, no. This is an opportunity to lock you in. Yeah.

So hey, I yeah, and this is what annoys me is I've basically got locked into the Makita system. And and there's nothing wrong with Mikita's tools, they're perfectly fine. I haven't had any of them die on me yet, which is

Mm-hmm. Um but I mean, if you really got extra money and you don't mind it, you can always go to kind of I guess I always looked at DeWalt as being sort of some of the more most expensive ones. But there's other brands too. I'm curious if you had any Actually, honestly, in the States, most people would probably put Makita up there with DeWal. Oh, cool. Well there you go. Makita is not a bad brand to have. Well, I like the the shade of blue.

They have a good reputation. They have a lot of tools with the same battery platform, which honestly, my first tip regarding cordless versus cordless. When you're looking at cordless tools, you want to choose a brand that is readily available to you. And offers as many tools offering the same battery plate.

You don't necessarily need expensive tools like DeWalt and Milwaukee or Makita to start. There's a lot of brands available at Home Center and DIY stores that are fine, like in the States we have craft. Most of those are just fine, especially for people in those first few levels we were talking about. And they won't break the bank too badly. When is actually getting pretty popular on Amazon. And Craig has actually launched their own brand of power tools that

too. But the main thing you want to make sure is like take a little bit of time to do some research in your area, wherever that happens to be, and find brands that are available to you that offers many tools. that use the same batteries and the same chargers as possible. And that's honestly what you're going to want to go for. So that like if you buy a charger and a handful of batteries, you can use as many tools with that as possible.

Definitely. I was just gonna say I I think the other good advice with those batteries is um if you're planning to do a bunch of stuff in a period of time and you don't need different tools, having extra batteries charged ready to go it's always a good idea. Yep, always. Always. And that that it it leads to the same point, you know. You want to be able to get a handful of batteries and chargers. A couple of chargers and a handful of batteries.

That all run in the same tools. So you can just always have some charging on standby and you're always ready to just swap out and be ready to go. Cool. Yeah. And then you want to be careful looking at the combo kits with mini tools in them. You can often get all you need for a great price, but a lot of the times they're loaded with down extra tools, and you may not need them or you may not want them, and you may be better off to buy separate tools.

If you can swing it, I would also recommend buying brushless motors. They're a little more more expensive, but they're often more powerful and they run longer using less powers, which means More tool use, less battery charging and changing. And then obviously as we've said, try to get at least a double charger or a few extra batteries. Nothing harshes your mojo more than having to halt production to wait on the ball.

Yeah. It just it just it derails you. You go back to another part of the house and you know, um the wife or the kids say, Oh hey, can you insert side task here and um yeah, side quest, whatever you want to call it. And then you're done. You're done. You never get back out there. Yeah, it's over. Derailed.

So yeah, no that that's really that's really good advice. Um I think what I love about all this, Vic, is just the availability of these tools and you can turn something that would have just been um you would have thought potentially out of your reach to make something that good that you would just be able to buy. But you can actually do it yourself in your own home. And if you're smart about it, you don't have to spend a fortune on tools. I actually do I really love that about this hobby.

And it's just like, you know, you can get on the YouTubes or you can get on the internet and you can find a bunch of plants. And most of them are free. I mean, there's some that that want to charge you for their plants. stuff, but a lot of them are free. And you could just download the plans and you can get some basic tools and you can just get started cutting, glue and screw and and you can really make some amazing

I think that um I guess f on on if I if I could sum this up, woodworking is no longer like a specialized art, although there is still art to it. Like the projects you pick, what you build, what they look like is

And there is still art in how it's finished and so on, but just the tools make it so much easier, which is which is just nothing but fantastic as far as I can say. Yeah. So I think it's great. And I'm really glad that you'cause I know Vic you put a lot of time and effort into the prep for this episode and I really do appreciate that. It's something that I know you're passionate about. And unlike me, you've actually made money from selling stuff you've made. That's something that I can't claim.

I got very excited when you told me you wanna do this topic. I've been waiting for it like for years, man, without even knowing it. Well Well I do appreciate it. Unfortunately I've hit my time limit, so w we have to wrap it up. But I'm sure there'll be follow up on future episodes because um I do expect or get some feedback on this one and I'm sure we'll we'll have more to say. But Great. But for now.

If so, yeah. But for now, if you want to talk more about this, you can reach me on the Fediverse at chidji at engineer.space or the network at engnet at engineer.space.

Although probably better to um to reach out to Vic'cause he knows more about than me. Uh and if you're enjoying Pragmatic and you'd like to support us. And keep the show out free. You can. By becoming a premium supporter. Just visit engineer dot network slash pragmatic to learn how you can help the show to continue to be made. Thank you. A big thank you to all of our supporters. A special thank you to our silver producers, Mitch Bilger,

Shane O'Neill, Jared Roman, Katarina Will, Chad During, Ian Gallagher and Jamie Russell, and an extra special thank you to our wonderful gold producers Stephen Bridel, Kellen Fradelli's Fujimoto, Steve Branham, and our longest running gold producer, known only as R. So if you'd like to get in touch with Vic to talk about woodworking or anything else, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you, mate? I can be found at most places on the internet as Vic Hudson won. Excellent.

And I just yeah, I can't thank you enough, mate. This has actually been really cool. I've learnt quite a bit more um than appreciate that so I have a lot of people. Absolutely. Walk about. You know that people are gonna reach out to me and I'll find it in like August, right? Probably. Yeah.