Mastering Poultry Nutrition and Effective Flock Management with Expert Jeff Mattocks

Jeff Maddox has a real gift for being able to take a complicated subject and simplify it so that it's easy for you to understand and apply . That's right .

Now , here's Jeff .

So , whether it's people with three chickens in their backyard or up to 10 or 15,000 chickens , but they're pretty much raising them outside open air , moving them around in fields , more of a natural way of doing things . And I do a lot with the organic folks who prefer to , you know , keep their birds in an organic fashion .

So , coming at it from that standpoint , you know , we've always I've always felt that if I overfeed the birds or give them more than what the bare minimum requirements are , that I can keep them healthier and they function better and they reproduce better And they're just all the way around more fun to have .

You know , everybody knows that when your birds are healthy they're a lot of fun . When they're not , you just you're pulling your hair out trying to get it under control . It's a pain . I'd rather pay forward ahead of time and try and keep them as healthy as possible than try and work from behind .

you know , and I watch a lot of folks out there and they go to whether it's tractors , supply or wherever their garden center or their farm center is and they're checking prices , right ? They're not checking the contents of the bag . They're not checking the nutritional levels . They're not looking at the ingredients in there , right ? They're looking for $16.95 .

You know , if they see one for $22 and one for $16 , you know which one they're going to buy . Eventually that comes around and bites you . I encourage everybody to read the tags , look at the nutrient levels , understand what you're reading . If you need help with that , reach out to me . you know , take pictures of the tags , email them to me , right ?

I'll tell you which one is full of garbage and which one is going to be the healthier choice for your chickens . And do this for a lot of folks , okay , so it's not a problem . I'd rather see people have good , healthy chickens .

And you know , the worst thing I do is open up Facebook and I go to a couple of different poultry groups and people are talking about this sick chicken and that sick chicken . It's just no fun at all And it takes the fun out of raising chickens when you know , when you go out to a group of sick birds .

But you know , you asked me to talk about nutrition a little bit . you know , going up through the different phases and kind of what to look for or what I'm . you know what I'm formulating for , you know . first off , try and avoid byproducts . okay , you know byproducts are put in feeds to keep , to make them cheaper . but people don't understand .

they have no nutritional value . They're not adding anything to that feed for the bird , all they're doing is diluting it down to get the price point down .

A lot of the folks that I'm working with currently are actually seeing that when they feed a higher nutritional value without byproducts higher nutritional value feed without byproducts they're feeding 20 to 25% less per day and getting better results .

okay , so the first number one failure that I see and this isn't just in the poultry world , it's everywhere is some people make this assumption that all feeds are created equal . So if it says 16% layer , it's the same as the 16% layer beside it and the one beside that and the one beside that , and they're not .

So learning how to read between the lines on the ingredients is really important . Look for as many whole grains when I say whole grain . whole grains were used to process the feed , whether you're using a pellet or a mash . look for as many whole grains When you see the word byproducts . that should be a red flag too . That means that they're diluting it down .

You know , and now over the years , working with folks like URIP and other breeders I've been working with breeders more intently over the last 10 years , breeding birds and shofal , and you know the high end exotic fowls , their nutritional requirements , can't be purchased over the counter at a local feed store . Nobody's making a feed .

for a truly good feed for shofal or breeding , as I've dug into it and I've worked with breeders over the past years , the nutritional values , particularly in the vitamins and the amino acids , need to be about 20% higher than a regular backyard chicken . Okay , just you know the basic laying end that somebody's going to have in their backyard .

they're going to do fine with tractor supply or whoever's . you know 16 , 17 , 18% layer of feed , but it's not going to put the plumage on and it's not going to give the attributes you know those distinct attributes to a breeding type chicken . It's just not . they're not going to reach their full genetic potential .

So when I say that , it's like if you're picking a chick starter , instead of picking an 18% chick starter , you should be looking for probably a 22 to 24% game bird starter , again looking at those ingredients that are in there and looking at the levels .

For instance , you should be looking for almost a 6,000 vitamin A units international units of vitamin A per pound of feed . All right , most chick starters out there are only running at 3,000 . So it's about half of where it needs to be . The fowl that we're talking about today developed slower than the commercial birds .

They're not made to be , you know , finished in eight weeks . they're not , you know , they're just a different breed . Their feed intake is actually a lot less than a lot of the commercial or domestic fowl out there .

So we have to get more per bite than you know for our type of chicken or our type of fowl , we have to get more per bite than what most feeds are offering out there . So , pretty much all the way through each one of the feeds , we want to run it between 5,000 and 6,000 international units of vitamin A .

I'd like to have 1,500 , actually 2,000 international units of vitamin D . These are things you can look at on the tag . These are required by law to be on a tag . If you see a chicken feed tag that doesn't have these on it , it's not legally labeled and you probably need to keep looking .

So if they can't even follow the basic guidelines for labeling requirements , chances are that there's something else missing Vitamin E . it's going to be really hard to find , but I like to have 50 international units per pound Calcium levels .

should you know for young and developing birds whether it's starter grower or developer , you want about a 1.25 on your calcium level , so your bottom would be your minimum B1 , your maximum B1.5 . Phosphorus is a big corner that a lot of feed companies cut because phosphorus is not cheap And I like to see a phosphorus level running around 0.75 to 0.5 .

It's going to give you better bone formation . you know , working with breeders , i hear about crooked keels and I hear about different things like that . A lot of that's coming to not enough or the wrong kind of minerals being used . Some of that can be avoided by hitting the right mineral contents , you know . then you roll into your amino acids .

Some are going to guarantee they have to guarantee methionine and lysine on a show or breeder foul should be at 1.1 and the methionine level should be 0.45 or higher . Actually I like 0.5 . Now they're going to give you minimum guarantees , which means that's not their actual amount . They rounded them down to make sure that they hit their requirements .

So chances are they're going to be about a half of not a half a percentage point , but they're going to be about 10% higher than what's actually on the label . So it's going to give them some protection . Each state is required to do a feed inspection .

So twice a year they go to a feed manufacturer's feed stores , any places that feeds are being sold , and they'll take samples . Sooner or later you're going to see this little white sticker on the side of the bag you bought that says sampled by the state of Florida in your case , or whatever state you're in .

That's going to happen And the states have a little bit of a quality control guarantee built in for testing to make sure that things are being done right , and that's a good thing . So starter feed , depending on how it's put together and hitting those amino acids I just talked about , for sure , one a , 22 , 23 , 24 .

Now the variation on that protein that I is how heavily plumaged is the bird ? So if you have more of the exotics with a lot of plumage on them , right , or you need better feather , look at the methionine level because that's going to be your key driver , for you know how that feather turns out . But also total protein is going to make a difference .

Now don't go crazy . When I say total protein , that doesn't mean I want you to run out and buy some 28% gain bird starter , because too much protein is just as bad as not enough . The kidneys of the bird has to process all excess protein through the kidneys .

If you continue to burn them up by putting too much , exceeding their protein requirement for an extended period of time , you're actually causing kidney damage in the long term , which is going to shorten the lifespan of the bird . for if you look like you have a question .

I've got some friends and they all have four or five foot tails on their males easily . but I just in my own mind I wonder how much more impressive would those birds look if they were on this kind of a diet . You know , one was really good super nutrition , just some food for thought , yeah it is .

So keeping them on this really high protein level feed is not necessarily the right answer . It's getting the feed with elevated levels of amino acids . So it's developing a feed for the Phoenix and it can be an 18% feed . But I might have my methionine levels at point six .

Now , having extra methionine and extra lysine and extra amino acids doesn't hurt the kidneys . At that point it's not going through the body as a protein and it's easier for the body to utilize as an amino acid . So , and even the large commercial you know the produce , the pilgrim prides , etc .

The ticens of the world you know they're reducing protein levels in their chicken feeds and they're putting in amino acids to get the desired results . We just kind of have to catch up to this technology with showbirds Interesting , okay , you know they're knocking two points off their protein because soybeans cost money .

So by manipulating the amino acids more precisely they're able to achieve the same results and save money in the end . And the same could be said for , you know , breeding and showfowl . You know if we , if we , could find feed manufacturers to work with us , but we're scattered out all over the place . Nobody wants to pay shipping .

You know I could go to a feed mill here in Pennsylvania and say , hey , can you make this showfowl feed for me ? Yes , sir , make it for you . But then till I ship it to Florida and I add four or five dollars a bag for shipping , you know you get it down there .

And if I came to you and said , hey , i have the perfect show feed If you didn't know me from Adam and I said it's gonna cost you $32 a bag , you're gonna be like what I can go down the street and buy . You know , $20 feed , right ? I've heard that a lot too . Yeah , right , and I hear it all the time .

It's like , you know , there can't be that much difference between your feed and what I can buy down the street for $10 a bag less . Well , yeah , there actually can , and there's different levels of feed that you have to be considerate

of , right ? So there's some birds in your flock that may never go for a show . They may never go to the fairgrounds , they may never go to a poultry show . You're keeping them back for breed stock because they're good , you like them , you know they make a difference . And then you know you've got that 20% but are gonna go with you to show 20-25% .

Do they necessarily need to have the exact same feed ? No , they probably don't . But then when I talk to a breeder and say , well , you can feed this group this and this group that , and they're like I ain't going through all that , that's too much fuss and trouble and I'm not gonna do it .

And you know , and I'm gonna feed them all one feed and of course they feed the cheaper feed because you know , and everybody keeps way too many birds , right , they like this and they like , they like this cock , and you know they have a hard time Calling and they have a hard time , you know , selling off birds .

I get attached to them , whether it's emotional or financial or whatever , and they just can't , you know they can't trim down the herd , so to speak . But you know , for pretty much all I work with all livestock and kind of a basic rule of thumb is to call out 10 to 20 percent annually At your most expensive time of year .

To feed them right , you need to go through , look hard , make the make the hard , judgment calls and whether you sell them or Whatever you do , but calling that , calling them back down to a set number , is Very beneficial . How you get people to do that is beyond I .

Which one should I keep ? How do I know that they're not mature ?

Then you have a second selection somewhere between 12 and 16 weeks And pretty much after that you're gonna ride it out for close to a year to see how the bird fully develops right , yes , and , and some of those slow to mature breeds like Jersey Giants You may be looking at two years before .

Well , friend of mine says , if we , if we all ate our , we'd be in a lot better shape .

You know they're out there and if you get your hatching around to the right time of year , you know , first of April everybody's looking for chicks for their backyard . So If you can get your timing right to get your hatches off and do that initial call , you know by the first of April , you have no problem selling them whatsoever .

I Just see people trying to keep way too many chickens and then they complain about their feed bill And I'm like , well , why do you have so many chickens ? You know I'm working with a lovely lady down in Texas right now . She had over 300 chickens in her yard .

She wasn't focused on anyone particular breed , she was just kind of all over the place because she loved chickens and I'm like all right , so you need to make this decision . Are you gonna be a breeder , are you gonna just have chickens ? because you can't do both , okay , right , you need to make the hard , conscious decision .

And then I said I'm fine with either one I . You need to decide what works for you , but you can't keep a bunch of yard birds around for entertainment And try and be a serious breeder at the same time . There's too many risk involves , there's too many cost involved and you just got to get . You just got to narrow it down And focus on something .

So and she is , and it was a . It was a rough night when she Called a third of her birds and , you know , sound them all off to be sold . But yeah , she sees the light at the end of the tunnel and it'll

get better .

You know we can look at adding supplements to that if we need to . That those numbers stay the same all the way through the rearing stage . So 4,000 at starter , 4,000 at grower , 4,000 at developer . And Whether you're going to layer or whether you're going to a holding feed , you know depends on your time of year .

You don't want to feed a layer feed with high calcium year-round if your bird isn't producing an egg . Feeding that extra calcium is not benefiting anybody . It's actually working against you . So Working with breeders like you rip what I do , is it okay ? so I ask you what breed you have and what is What is that maturing date ?

So if you say , okay , it's 28 weeks till till my bird gets to basically Sexual maturity or that point . You know they're not fully developed but they're . They're pretty much at what we would call mature . I divide that 28 weeks by four To tell me how long they need to be on starter right .

So for a 28 week bird maturing , seven weeks on starter , seven weeks on grower , seven weeks on a developer and Then you know , then they're moving on in it to do whatever is next . So I break that up into , you know , three I'm sorry three equal segments . So you're gonna be nine weeks on each .

That way I know that I'm hitting that nutritional need for that bird , you know , at each one of those stages of developing . So you start now with 22 , 23 protein . Then you're going to drop to on a show . I would want to be no less than 18 to 20 on a grower feed .

Developer feed is going to be 16 to 18% protein without the high calcium , and that's again focus on better amino acid levels . That's where your feathers coming from . That's where your body developments coming from .

Hopefully you know if your feeds are being made somewhat local to you , they're being balanced for the right carbohydrates based on your temperature and your climate . That would be really nice . But your starter feed should be well , it's not on the tag . So how do I tell somebody you need 1300 kilocalories per pound , right ?

I don't know how to explain the energy part of it . A lot of feeds have a bunch of added fats added to them . They have higher energies And all that's going to do is start the formation of fat deposits . Okay , at a very young age . And I don't really want a fat .

I don't want fat starting to even begin to be deposited until the bird is about two thirds through that development phase . You don't want any early age fat . So you want a good exercise area so they can run some of that off . And you in Florida , i would want a lower energy .

I would trim that energy because people don't understand the chicken actually eats for its energy needs every day . So , based on the temperature , the living environment and everything else it's going to eat , the number of calories it needs to sustain itself on a given day . So on hotter days they eat less , on colder days they eat more .

And that's just the nature of a chicken . A lot of creatures are actually that way . All right . So we got the starter , we got the grower , we got the developer and then you got to decide if you're . But so for a show file , pretty much going to be 17 plus 18% is pretty much going to be the maintenance level .

Protein Again , i want at least a 1% lysine . One point two is better . I want at least a 0.5 , 0.47 , 0.5 on methionine to keep the plumage where it needs to be .

Now , each one of these diets I've found that if I keep my fiber level at around 5% give or take one and my fat level at 5% , you know , 4 to 5% that seems to be the best health number for keeping the birds good and healthy , looking good , not getting fat . So fat and fiber should pretty much always be equal .

So if your fiber goes up , you know your fat can go up as well . But 5% fat , 5% fiber , really good numbers , really good baseline numbers . Up here in the north we , you know the winter time I could go to 6 or 6.5% fat to help compensate for cold weather . But even in the south you know where you are I wouldn't want to go below 5% .

So people don't understand cholesterol . Liver function in a chicken has a lot of similarities to you and I .

So we need a certain amount of fat in our diet , right , just for our liver to function correctly , cholesterol to be deposited you know , it goes into the liver , gets broke apart , goes out and does a whole lot of functions in the body And 5% seems to be the right number on for poultry that is . I have some poultry diets as high as 10% .

Now that's getting really high . I don't recommend that to anybody but on specialty cases or certain purposes you can go as high . But if you keep it between 4 and 6 , 5 being the target number , it's really good . And we're actually starting to learn more here in the US about dietary fiber being important to a chicken . We've overlooked it for years .

I mean , if I go walk down the aisle at the feed store you're going to see a bunch of 3 , 3.5 , 3 , you know fibers , and a lot of that fiber is actually coming from very soft fibers like wheat midlings that don't have any structural density to them . Fiber is feeding , something like an alfalfa meal , alfalfa hay , oats barley .

Those all have a higher density fiber And it stays intact going through the gut wall in the intestinal tract and actually is scouring and cleaning that on a continuous basis . So I get more nutrient absorption through that intestinal wall than I do on a low fiber diet .

Okay , if I sit there and I eat the whole thing or that's all I eat , that's going to become a big problem . You know , and the scratch grains and the sunflower seeds are pretty much in the same vein as me eating ice cream . It's a feel good thing for the owner , right ? My chickens love me when I show up with scratch grains .

Well , you show up in my house with five gallons of ice cream . I'm going to love you too , and it's a good , you know , i mean , but it doesn't mean . It's a good thing , right , it's a different treat for you chickens . Besides , you know , feeding them ice cream and stuff that doesn't really add to their nutritional health . Some of our seeds , huh .

You know I don't want it soupy wet or anything like that , but just enough to where it can stick together and roll it into little balls and just toss some of those balls and moisten the feed out there and they go nuts for it .

But you know what A teaspoon in a quart of water is going to do almost 15 pounds of feed or more , right ? So you're not throwing off that nutrition . Hardly at all , right ?

Yeah , so you can put some other guys that are doing that and then freeze it and put it out there on the really hot , miserable days , yeah , and just let them peck at some frozen food . And again , they love it , so Good deal Some flour shims .

Chickens have a really low threshold for salt and it's just not Again and we're going to start doing . if we do them all the time , every day , we're going to start , you know , causing some kidney damage or we're going to put extra stress on the kidneys . Let's put it that way Did we do damage or not ? Hard to tell . You know what .

If people want to make their own chicken Gatorade , the recipe is really easy . Okay , it's two ounces of apple cider vinegar , one tablespoon of molasses . put a teaspoon of salt in that . This is per gallon . Mix it up really well . If you think it needs color , put a little bit of food coloring in it .

But otherwise , that mixture of vinegar , molasses and a little bit of salt is going to do way more than a bag of electrolyte that you're buying at the store . Okay . So when you compare the cost of what I just described . you know what do ?

you got 25 cents worth of ingredients to make a gallon of chicken Gatorade , and the chickens are going to thrive on it . especially when it's really hot , like right now , this is a perfect time of year to be making a little chicken Gatorade . serve it , you know , two , three times a week , something like that , and they're going to be .

But you know , i purposely stay out of the farm stores because and I don't walk down that chicken aisle to look at those supplements that you're referring to I just don't do it because I either get all riled up about the garbage they're serving people or I say something and then I , you know , i piss off one of my friends , or something like that because they

like it and I explained to them why it . you know they're getting ripped off , but you know . so you know , if you can't say something nice , don't say anything , and if I stay out of those aisles I don't have to worry about saying something bad .

So I put it in and I started adding the vitamin A , the vitamin D , the vitamin E , the lysine , the methionine , you know , and a different kind of protein , and that's how that supplement came about . You know , the breeder supplement , that's how it originated And you know , one teaspoon per bird per now , one teaspoon per adult bird per day .

It works out to about three cents per chicken per day . Okay , it's 2.6 grams . I took it home and weighed it on a gram scale . So it ends up being about 2.6 , 2.7 grams per bird per day . You know it's a pain to deal with but it's making up the difference between everyday chicken nutrition and breeder and showfile nutrition .

It's closing that gap So you can continue to feed . You know what you can find locally And this allows us to supplement it , you know , and try and keep the cost down . That's how that all got started . That's really what I sat down one day and said man , these folks need help , and that's what I put together . You know , of course , kenny and Frank .

They tried it out , and a few other people , and everybody liked it , so we just rolled it out and started talking to people about it .

If you're interested in the poultry show and breeder supplement powder , a 10 pound bag is $49 and can be ordered directly from the Fertrell company , and that does include shipping . If you want to learn more about poultry nutrition , you need to get yourself a copy of Jeff's latest book Neach Poultry Feeding and Management .

It features an expanded information on feeding , heritage and show poultry And I guarantee it's a book you'll refer to often and that can also be ordered from Fertrell .

John , i think this about covers it , but before we go , i want to thank the listeners for joining us for another episode on the poultry keepers podcast . Folks , until next time , keep learning and enjoying your birds and make sure to keep them scratching and pecking so long .