Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. Today we're going to talk about the line. The line, you know, there's some of my favorite episodes. Yeah, people asked for it. They told us we probably have some more stories to tell. I had to think about what to tell, but there is something. So I was working in this place, I was like 20 years old and I got this position at the top three Michelin star restaurant. At the
time it was on the top 10 San Pellegrino list. It was quite a place to go. I was a huge fan of this chef. So I got a deal where I would work with someone who was family from the head chef, not the executive celebrity chef, but the guy running the pass. And I would work with this family person for three months, no, for the whole summer. And then I would get a position in this restaurant. And that's what I did. And then the day that I arrived, I say, yeah, I come on behalf
of this and that. And that chef that was supposed to be there, the head chef had just left like two days ago without telling anyone. And everybody hated him. So that was kind of the way I entered this kitchen. And my plan was to work there for one year. At that moment I had this philosophy that I think I read once from Charlie Trotters. He said like, just be as long in a place until you learn everything or how it works and then go to a different one while you're in your learning years.
Right. This is something actually that we can talk about this whole study year controversy, people saying that this is slavery or this kind of thing. So what are your thoughts on this? Ah, well, it's a difficult subject, you know, at the end of the day, we both come from backgrounds where we did the whole stagia thing. And also in a very extreme way, you know, things that you see
in movies where people are like, wow, that's really extreme. That's like over the top. It's kind of like, well, that's how it really was, you know, like unpaid work for one year, you know, sleeping in bunk beds and rooms with like six people in it and basically just working. But my take on it is really, really clear, you know, like I did all of that. And it's benefited myself and my career immensely, you know, and I learned a huge amount of very, very, you know, different things, not
just cooking, but you know, it's just crazy what you learn in these places. It's very tough. It's a huge commitment. It's not for everybody. And that's totally fine. But nobody's forcing you to do it. So if you decide by yourself, if you're in a position that's fortunate enough, that you have the possibility of making the decision that you can go somewhere and work for three months, for six months, for one year for free for just food and accommodation, then that's a first world
problem. And nobody's forcing you to do it. So, you know, the people that decide to do a stash, let them do a stash. That's their decision. I did it and I never ever regretted it. Not even once. Yeah, I completely agree. If that's not for you, that's totally fine. It doesn't make you a less good chef or just because you didn't start at Noma, you know, it's just a different thing. It's a decision that you make. It doesn't mean that the people who stash and do this sacrifice to
learn something that doesn't make them any better. You know, it's a choice. Also for me, I thought it was kind of like a smart thing to do. You know, I was 18, 19 years old and going to one of these places and getting that on my curriculum. But also at the end of the day, you're 18, 19 years old. Come on, like you have energy. You can go to these places and absorb a lot of information. And I have no doubt that the jobs that I've got afterwards are directly related
to these experiences. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Going back to the story, I was in this restaurant and this head chef, man, this guy was like evil, but like really nasty. Like the new head chef that was the one that hated the previous one, which I made the deal. And so on one side, he's probably one of the most talented culinary technicians I've seen. He had like really nice stuff, like working with foie gras. Like he did like a killer foie gras, like a charcoal grilling
and then poaching it in a super heavy chicken stock. Also the stocks, they would cook them in copper marmites and the effect was completely different. Sometimes we would do like some stocks in this marmite and the other ones on a stainless steel and you can completely see the difference just because of the heat transfer of these materials. That was also super interesting. And this guy, you know, he was really like a badass chef. He would like, I know you also really
seen someone cleaning a fish with a Chinese cleaver. You know, that's badass. And these kind of things because that chef, the head chef, the executive chef was opening restaurants also in Asia and in different countries. So this guy would travel there to open these places. So he was with a super strong French background and everything. But on one side, one of the best chefs I've seen cooking and one of the worst leaders, he would go crazy. He would do everything himself. He was
really into humiliating people. I remember one day we would come on a Monday, 8 a.m. after the weekend, just starting the week. And there was like a glass of water that was out of place. And he calls the whole staff, the 30 people, and he starts talking and says like, yeah, okay, like who did this? Who did this? Who was it? No one? No one? I'm counting to three? Two? Okay, no one has a day of this week. And that's the way you started Monday. Just like that. You know, like this crazy,
senseless dictatorship. And this guy really gave the feeling that he was afraid of everyone. So he would make everyone afraid. He has these things like if you saw him working, he would scream, look at me. And he would talk like that. So in one of these situations where everybody was like not knowing what to do, you know, like cleaning what is already cleaned and everything.
And you know, like I think in those situations, like a proper restaurant manager, proper chef, he will send you home earlier, you know, because there is nothing to do, especially if you're working on two shifts, right? So you're coming back in the evening so you can go a few hours earlier. So I see everybody is like doing nothing, pretending they're cleaning what is already cleaned. Everybody's like walking in circles just to pretend that they're moving. And I'm like,
what is this? So I go to the chef in the middle of the service. This guy would like, I remember him always having like six pans in front of him, like going completely crazy. And I go there, I don't know what I was thinking of. And I said, chef, we have nothing to do. Man. So next thing, for the next three weeks, I would just pluck feathers from ducks. And that was my job for the next three weeks. That's all I did. You know, like, and once I started like
doing it a little bit faster, I got into stations and everything. But man, this place really depressed me. Like after five months, I couldn't take it any longer. Like I will come depressed home every day. Then that's why I quit. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I've had these sorts of experiences too, you know, and it's this pointless, especially the cleaning, the pointless cleaning, the fact that you have to clean, you know, of course, I think cleaning is one of the
most important things to do right as a chef. Like a clean kitchen means so much, you know, not just for sanitary reasons, but also just for the attitude and the mindset. And that's no question. But I also remember when I was working in Japan, just like two o'clock in the morning, we cleaned everything, you know, and then we stand there and we're sort of like, okay, so what now? And everybody's waiting to go home. And it's kind of like, well, the head chef is still here,
so nobody can leave. All right, let's clean everything again. And then you get out, you know, toothpicks and toothbrushes and start scrubbing like, you know, at three a.m., which is complete. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's just like you say, it's the worst sort of management that you can do
because these people think all that tough and disciplined and that that's good. But, you know, you are wasting the energy of your staff and, you know, you will pay the price in the end because they won't perform as well, you know, even if you don't care about the people, you know, which you should, because a good manager takes care of the people. But even if you don't care about that, and you're only worried about results, it's completely stupid to just waste energy on
nothing, you know. So we had this other story. You remember the special dinner for a cat basic man where we work together? Oh, yeah, that was that was a really that was a really fun dinner. Yeah, it was, you know, kind of like a cat basic man had been one of the mentors of the chef that we that we worked for together, who was a very well known chef in Berlin and in Germany.
And so, of course, you know, like when a cat basic man who's a people who don't know is a is a giant in the gastronomy scene, you know, he's like one of the I think he was the first three star chef in Germany, right? Yeah, probably. And he also got this chef of the century award from gold me yo, which only he and Joel Robuchon has. Yeah, I'm surprised that he's not more well
known internationally, you know, in Europe, he's quite well known. Yeah, Germany is quite hermetic, I think gastronomy wise, like here is yeah, funny chef don't know anything about German chefs, maybe this and both hard and that's it. Yeah, no, no, not both hard. What's the name of this guy from Aqua? Everfield? Everfield, you know? Yeah. But so anyway, so obviously, you know, he decided to have his I think it was his 60th birthday there. And I mean, it was quite a small kitchen and quite
a small team. Or, you know, half of the team was like apprentices, right? So the pressure was definitely on. And then also throughout the dinner, you know, the prep didn't go well. And then, you know, everybody got into cooking the dinner. And everybody was pushing everybody was trying their best. But the chef was so under pressure that, you know, he was just freaking out the whole time. And at one point, at one point, he got into about this guy, how we're going to call him Paul,
Paul, Paul, Paul was super nervous, man. He was like, yeah, you know, like this South Park character that always drinks coffee, kind of like that. Yeah, true. Just chain smoke cigarettes, you know, it was just like, but he was doing like a super good job. But at some point, and chef really liked him, I have to say, and that's the reason why it happened, what happened. So at some point, the chef says, Paul, I think he started naming people, which kind of reminds me of this
movie with Hitler kicks out everybody of the of the meeting room. So he started saying the names of the people who would say in the past, everybody else, get out of the kitchen. So I was the ones that that had to get out. So we were listening, like what was happening, you know? And how was it exactly? Well, he was kind of like, you know, just standing at the pass with two chefs, you know, one of which was Paul. And he was kind of just cursing to himself. He was like, everybody's
useless. Everybody's blind, just kind of like having this tirade while they were plating food, right? These guys like mix it him just quiet, just plating the food. And he was just talking to himself. He was like, these guys are just useless. They'll buy. Yeah, I'll do it myself. I'll do it. You, you and me. Well, we're going to do this, the two of us. Oh, and then he turns around to Paul, he says, Oh, don't you want to do you also want to go out? And he says, Yes.
Why do you mean with jazz? And he was like, No, yes, not going out. Yes. What did you said before? Because this is so hilarious. This poor guy just because he was so used to just being like, chef saying something, you like, yes, chef, chef. And it's like, you want to go out? Also, yes. What do you mean? Yes. No, I mean, yes. I mean, no. Yes. No. Sorry. Yeah, that was hilarious. Poor guy. He was so nervous. That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what
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