Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. Today we're going to talk about tacos. Tacos. I think tacos are some of our favorite foods, no? One of the best things in the world, yeah. Especially authentic, real tacos. It's really hard to find authentic, real tacos. Like, I mean, you know, I can't talk for anybody, and like, I can't talk for the states, where I think that, you know, there's a lot more.
But I mean, like in Europe and anywhere else I've been, it's pretty much impossible to find, like, proper authentic Mexican food, let alone tacos. I would say it's pretty hard, but there are always like secret corners where you find something. Yeah, there's always a group, if there's Mexicans around, there's tacos around, you know, there's somewhere in some backyard, there's somebody making tacos de lengua, you know. So what can you talk about your experience in Mexico? I haven't been to Mexico,
and you lived there for how long? About two years? About two years, yeah. In Mexico City, primarily. And I think that I lived, like, 80% of my diet consisted of tacos. Yeah, no joke. I mean, it's just like so convenient to just walk out the door, and you have stand next to stand next to stand selling tacos. And I mean, what is a taco, you know? A taco is, you know, things in a tortilla. Basically, yeah. And apart from that, you know,
it varies so much in style. And that's what I found super, super interesting, you know? Yeah, it's like a super broad universe, right? There are like many different tortillas, also different traditions, regions, there are even Arabian tacos, which is something traditional Mexican. Did you try all of these things over there? I tried to, man. I tried to try more. It's like Pokemon, you know? Gotta catch them all. But it was too many in my limited amount of time
in that beautiful country. But I did, like, it was my main occupation, sort of like in my free time, to go and search out taco places, because I found it super fascinating. And also just, like, even like inside of the different styles, like, you know, because the taco stand is often so makeshift, you know, it's like, it's just people putting up a stand and then making something, putting it in a tortilla and selling it to you for money. That even if they're doing like a certain
style, there's like little differences that really make a big difference. And so everybody has their, like, favorite place that they go to, or they have this like secret tip, like, oh, man, there's this one place, but it's only there on Thursdays. And you have to go there quickly because it sells out in like one hour. And yeah, it's like Donnas in Berlin, that you have your secret Donna place that you only
share with your friends because you don't want nobody to know. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, for me, the big difference in tacos is sort of like, there's like, I think the two main ones are, there's carnitas and there's al vapor, or like tacos de cabeza. And carnitas are, you know, meats that's cooked in fat. Basically, you have a big pot of sort of like boiling fat. And it's not
just fat, it's other secretive things too. You know, I've seen and heard people using very strange things that are put into this cooking concoction that they end up cooking the slabs of pork in, like Coca-Cola. Mexican cuisine is super maximalistic, right? You will see like, recipes with lots of steps and large lists of ingredients. And it's like, yeah.
Come on. And it's like, you know, like for me, as a, as a like a Western cook coming from Michelin star cooking, you know, when I was talking to local people and I was sort of like, man, the carnitas, they're super nice. And it's sort of like, oh yeah, you know how they make them, they take pork fat and they add Coca-Cola. And they, and for me it was like, no, don't tell me this. I know, but I've seen that a lot. Basically, if you think about it, Coca-Cola is, if you reduce
it to nothing, it's water with sugar and spices, you know, that's what it is. So, well, yeah, but it still feels wrong, you know? It does. It does. Like, but I've heard of people finishing sauces with Coca-Cola reduction and Michelin star restaurants. I've heard about that. I won't say the name of the restaurant. Yeah, Tim Rao maybe, but we don't talk about that. You know, it was
actually, I won't say it. Okay. You'll tell me later. No, but Tim Rao, I've heard he, I've heard that with Red Bull, I didn't, yeah, like cooking some grapes in a Red Bull reduction or something like that. Yeah. I've heard, I've heard my share of stories, but anyway, you know, it's, if we're to judge, we don't have three missions. I actually like his cooking. If I'm honest,
I went there once and I really liked it. What do we have to say? Yeah, it's good. Yeah. And so like, I mean, basically it's sort of like for me, from my ignorant foreign point of view, it was kind of like, okay, it's either confit and fat or it's cooked with steam. And so often you steam a whole head and then use up all the parts from the head, whether that's the cheeks, whether that's the tongue and yeah, and then there's obviously there's barbacoa, which we briefly talked about the other
day, I think, oh no, we didn't touch on it, but which is super interesting. You know, it's, it's not really tacos, but it's often served, you know, as a taco, sort of like pits cooking lamb. Then there's birria, you know, which is things cooked in a sort of broth, shredded meat, you know, and a very intense broth. So you're just very cool because you get a little cup of the consomme with a little bit of like diced onion and cilantro in it. And you can drink the consomme
before you eat your tacos, or you can dip your taco into the consomme. Super delicious. Always one of my favorites. Obviously there's the famous tacos al pastor, you know, which are super quintessential, you know, achiote, marinated meat that's, you know, layered up like a duna, you know, which comes from the Arabs, the Arab culture of sort of like making kebabs with the pineapple
on top. And yeah, and then obviously everything in between, you know, sort of like, ah, fuck, with chistora, you know, with cheese, like bistec, which is basically just like a thin slice of beef, cecina, which is also very interesting, which is beef, that's kind of like a beef jerky, they take beef and they cut it super, super thinly into like a huge sheet. And then they cure it and air dry it until it's basically like a light beef jerky. And then it's kind of seared off and put
into a taco. It's a very, very complex eating culture. Then you have all these types of tortillas, comes to my mind, the one with the hojasanta, which is green. Then you have the one with, is it always the brown gray one? Is that always with la coche or is there something else? There are some that are kind of gray, others more brown, like. I think the gray one might be with la coche, yeah, but it's like these like many different
colors, types of tortilla. Wait a second, let's explain, let's explain what with la coche is. Ah, yeah. Because it's, yeah, that's quite something. So in French, they call it
champignon de mais, like corn fungus, because that's what it is. So you see this, imagine like a corn grain that grows like a champignon out of the, so if you see it's counterintuitive to see like a champignon full of gray mushrooms that grow out of it and then thinking like, oh, this is the delicious part that I'm going to take out and eat, you know, like that's something that really impressed me the first time that I saw it. And it's something that is super, super delicious.
It's somewhere in between corn and mushrooms. Yeah, it's like you say, it's such a weird thing because it is an infection in a way, it's fungus spores that infect the corn and then it morphs, you know, it like it grows into these bulbous sort of tumor looking like gray corn monsters, but it's not just molding or like going off, it's a very specific type of spore that grows
under very specific conditions. And so it's kind of like, it's like the Mexican truffle, but it's like a, you know, like in wine, there's a like a noble rot it's called, you know, where grapes start to mold in a very specific way, but that concentrates the sugars and makes it really delicious. And it's kind of the same with the wheat lacotche, it's a very particular type of mold that then grows and makes it into this product. It's super fascinating, it's super unique. Never seen
that anywhere else. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've seen that in Bolivia actually. And it was funny because the caseras, the cholitas as they call them, you know, these farm ladies, they would hide it, you know, it was something, I mean, they know that, they probably know that, that's super delicious, you know. Yeah. But then obviously Mexico has an amazing variety of heritage like urlule corn in many, many different types of colors. And the main difference is, you know, the geographical point.
So in Mexico, they eat two types of tortillas, it's either a flour tortilla or it's a corn tortilla. So in the north, you know, where it's more deserty and they grow more wheat, it's a flour tortilla, and then sort of like more center and more south where they can grow corn and they eat corn tortillas, you know. So depending on who you talk to. As far as I know, wheat was introduced by Europeans, right? It's not something I've talked to us from, I think so. Yeah. I would say so.
I think so. Yeah. And yeah, if you see these sort of tortillas that are like pink or like dark blue, you know, that's just the color of the corn, you know, that doesn't get lost. Yeah. That doesn't get lost by nixtamalization. That's just like urlule corn. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Nixtamalization. Let's talk about that. Because that's also like a super crazy ancient Mexican culinary technique that doesn't exist nowhere else, which is crazy. Yeah. It's cooking with,
how do you call that in English? Lye is what you call it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So basically it used to be done with ash. Ash used to be mixed into the water that was used to cook corn. Yeah, like super highly alkaline, right? That's exactly right. But it's a little bit of a fickle process. It has to be the right alkalinity and it changes the proportions of the corn to be digestible, you know, for one. It also changes the way that it holds together when you, because if
you cook corn, you grind it, you can't make, it doesn't have any gluten. It doesn't stick together. Right? So this process, it changes the proportions of the corn so that you can actually form a tortilla out of it. And also on top of that, it changes the flavor in a very, very particular way. It's very hard to describe. If you have experienced it, if you have tasted it, if you've ever had a, like a nice fresh made tortilla, like you'll know the flavor. It's this very particular nixtamalized
flavor that is the sort of culinary heritage of, you know, Mexicans. I think every Mexican that's like, you know, out of their country for a while, and then they smell or taste this like flavor of nixtamalization, they're immediately brought back home. There's also a flavor that I've never seen anywhere else. Yeah, it's something super particular, both the technique and the flavor. And then it's a
key for tacos and many corn derived products. I wonder if the word nixtamal and what tamal means in Aztec or whatever that word comes from, because tamal is at the same time, this, you know, this corn, how would you describe it? Like a corn dumpling, something like that? A tamal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Basically it's kind of like a, I mean, like the word tamal, it appears in different Latin cultures, no? But in Mexico, it's usually, yeah, it's like, yeah, kind of like a dumpling, no? Like
a dumpling, like a boiled cornbread. I don't know how to like a huge corn gnocchi. I don't know how to describe it. It's kind of hard to describe, like this corn gelatin sort of thing wrapped in leaves and then steamed, usually like filled also. Exactly. Sometimes corn leaves, sometimes also plantain leaves. Super, super traditional and super delicious. And yeah, also only like, you know,
doable because of the nixtamalization, otherwise it would just completely crumble apart. But there's so many of those like tamales, you know, there's tetelas, there's like so many different shapes, you know, there's gorditas, you know, which are like these fat little sort of like discs that there's topes, I think they're called. Yeah. So it was like, there's different shapes that people use this masa, which is basically what nixtamalized and then ground corn is in Mexico. Yeah. The same
with tortillas. I remember also that there are this like, how are they called? Infladitas, which are the ones that, you know, it's kind of this potato soufflés, like soufflé tortillas that are empty on the inside. I've also seen, I had in Cosme this other tortillas that were air dried, that is also completely counterintuitive. Like that being something, you know, like making chips out of tortillas, like letting them air dry. Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole universe. It's such an ancient,
such an old culture. And I guess like at least, well, we can't know, but I think that there are many traditions that have been preserved culinary wise and others that have evolved, as I said, like the introduction of wheat or of other cultures, like the Arabs that have like made
their own contribution. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And it's like, you know, all these like traditional things, I think there's really beautiful movement in Mexico, in the culinary world where young chefs, they try to not necessarily revive, but kind of like take all these like, you know, traditional things and present them in like a modern way, but keeping their like heritage
roots, like really, really well intact. And yeah, I mean, if you haven't been to Mexico and you go there, it's like a, it's just really easy to discover, you know, Mexican food in a very authentic way. Yeah. That's something I absolutely have to do. Yeah. What else? Do you have like a memorable taco? Like one you said, okay, that was like something out of this world. I have a few, you know, I have a few. I am, so I, I'm a big fan of tacos de cabeza, you know, tacos de lengua.
So tongue tacos and tacos de cachete were always my thing. Oh, okay. Cabesas, cabesas head, what kind of pork's head? So tacos de cabeza is usually a steamed cow's head. And you know, you steam the head whole for a long time until everything's really, really tender. And basically everything from the head is used. The cheeks, which in Mexico, like a Latin Spanish are called cachete,
which is super gelatinous and fatty and delicious. And then the tongue obviously, which is really meaty, you know, taco de lengua, but then also the eyes and like different parts from the heads, the chow, you know, it's a super, super nice. I always really liked it because it was so clean. It wasn't like super fatty or anything really meaty and juicy. Cooking with steam is such a beautiful way of cooking anything, you know, cause it's so gentle. Then there's a place in Mexico
city called Cocuyos and they make a taco de tripa. So a tripe taco, which is insanely good. They confit a tripe. So if you have this like, you have this carnitas pot, it's a huge pot of bubbling oil and you have meat, different cuts. You have nopales, which is the cactus, you know, that are kind of confiting there. Usually you have some longaniza or so, you know, the sausage. And then at the side, they just had the tripe, the intestines that were confiting for a really long time. So they were
really, really tender. And then before they serve them, before they put them in a taco, they just put them on a plancha, on a really hot plancha, just like on both sides until they're like a little bit crispy, chop them up, put them in a taco. And I'm super amazing. Super, super nice. That sounds really good. It's amazing. Like it's so nice, you know, like I know a lot of people have, you know, they don't like to eat awful so much, but you had zero like bad flavor or smell, you know, it's,
it was just absolutely delicious. A little bit crispy, a little bit chewy, super, super delicious. I had one birria place that I really liked where the consomme was just like this really intense beef bouillon with chili and, you know, like a little bit of raw onion in it. And it was just really, really nice. And they actually, that birria place, they had amazing birria, but they also made a taco de bistec where they just had like thinly sliced beef that they would sear. And then I would
always order it with cheese. So they put some queso Oaxaca on top, that like stringy cheese that melts really well. And what they would do is they would sear the beef and then they would add a very generous splash of Maggi seasoning sauce. And that would caramelize and like glaze the beef. And then they would put the cheese on top. And then they would put in a little bit of French fries into the taco, like fried potato. Oh my fucking God, that was so good. It was like a bigger taco,
like larger size than the usual. The tortillas you get are usually quite small. Also, you know, inside a tip, never order more than two tacos at a time. You know, don't be a tourist and order like five. Yeah, don't be a gringo and order five, six tacos at the same time. Order two then order two more, you know, don't be greedy. But yeah, it was like a little bit bigger and it was just super
filthy. But this like umami bomb was like amazing. And then like also a really funny thing that a taco stand like near my house did was they had like funny names for the tacos they would do. So they would have the lawyer and the lawyer would be, can you guess what the lawyer would be? No, no idea. A lot of tongue and just a little bit of brain. That's so funny, man. And I thought,
I thought that was super charming, you know. That's so nice. Well, as you know, I haven't been to Mexico, but I would say the nearest experience I had was like a proper taco experience apart from having tacos in different tacos places around the world, like presumably authentic tacos, whatever you can find in other countries. But eating at Cosme in New York was quite an experience. Cosme is this restaurant run by Daniela Soto Ines and at the same time is part of Enrique Olvera's
group. Enrique Olvera was this chef that he was probably the first one to put tacos in a fine dining context to having like a long tasting menu where tacos is a very important part of the menu and it works kind of like nigiris where you have like just like a very little piece where you have everything in one or two bites, which is like a more fancy, minimalistic way of presenting tacos.
Some are purple because it's purple corn. The other ones are brown because it's with lacoche and different types of tortilla, different toppings, like this whole experience, having them warm, like these authentic tortillas of Corda that have this special break to it when you're different from wheat tortilla that are like perhaps more elastic, I would say. And yeah, and having different toppings, different sauces. Yeah, it's quite a thing. I think everybody loves
tacos and tortillas. Yeah, absolutely. One of the best meals that I had while I was in Mexico City was cooked by a good friend of mine, Victor. Victor Alejandro Bermudez, who was working with me in Loria in Mexico City and his grandma cooked lengua in pipian, which is like a sauce made from seeds, like often like pumpkin seeds, you know, it's sort of like, it's kind of hard to explain, but it's
like sweet, delicious thick sauce with chilies and seeds and stewed tongue. And we had it with tortillas de harina, so flour tortillas, which are also made in a very particular way with a little
bit of manteca, so a little bit of pork fat. And they were really like, I was surprised because I was always like, all corn tortillas are much better than flour tortillas, you know, but then I had like a proper flour tortilla and it was so like soft and smooth and it had this like, the pork fat gave it like this little bit of silkiness and this lengua in pipian was by far one of the best things I had in my time in Mexico, it's absolutely amazing.
That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.