Welcome for the premiere of the newly Possible Now podcast, where we dive deep with the most influential minds shaping the future of media marketing and technology. Today, we have an absolute powerhouse of the industry with us, a visionary demiker, a strategic mastermind, and a true connector of global leaders.
My guest has an unmatched talent for recognizing the relationships and synergies needed to make things happen, and it's no surprise that the core values of his company, consulting, convening and co investing are the foundation of his success. He's the founder and CEO of Three C Ventures, a company at the cutting edge of media marketing and technology innovation.
You may know him as the force behind some of the most groundbreaking partnerships in the business, a trusted advisor to Fortune five hundred executives, and a game changer who sees opportunities where others see challenges. He's a longtime friend, a business partner, a mentor, and also the chairman of Possible. Please welcome the one and only Michael Kessen. Welcome Michael.
Thank you Christian, and you know it's always difficult to hear you describe my evil twin brother, but I'd love to meet him one day.
I think you already did seven times.
Well you're very kind, Christian, And I'll underscore one thing. I think our friendship now is you know, pushing twenty years, but certainly more than fifteen. And it's been a very enjoyable friendship and partnership. And you know, having had the chance to work together now for a couple of years on Possible and before that just on an other industry ten polls to Mexico, et cetera. I consider you a friend and a partner and it's nice to share some time with you.
Thank you so much. And as I said at the beginning, this is a premiere of our new podcast, and I couldn't think about you know, somebody better than you being my guest, but I will do it with every production that I would love to talk about or ask a personal question at the beginning before we dive into the incredible work you're doing and the transformative changes in our industry. So let's take a step back for a second. You've closed deals in boardrooms all over the world, but let's
get real. What's the most ridiculous or let's say, unexpected place you've ever made a business deal? Was it on the beach, whether the bathroom, whether the golf course, which is quite common in today's Can you share or do you want to share anything? Nobody knows that now.
Well, you know you made it too easy for me when I just started practicing law. And this is probably on the hitting of too much information for our visitors, But you did ask was it in a bathroom? I was doing what one does in a stand up mode in the men's room, and I got a pretty big
piece of business right there on the spot. When I was a young lawyer, the guy next to me asked me a question, and as one does, I was looking straight ahead and he asked me a question which turned into a significant piece of business when I was a very young lawyer. In fact, Christian, it was the first week that I was practicing law when this happened, and it unleashed a lot of new business and it kind of was a game changer for me and career wise. And that did happen in the men's room, So nothing
else untoward but the new business opportunity. And you know you've asked odd places to have deals closed. Yes, I've done plenty of business on a ski lift. Yeah, so another place, not hopefully not what we're skiing down the mountain, but just writing up you know, God knows.
And in today's time, you know, is dock you sign and all the digital kind of signages. I mean, it could be really everywhere, right, But it's interesting that you said it was just at the beginning of your career that you already started making deals.
Well, I didn't know that that was going to be the hub of new business in the men's room, but it turned out. It turned out to be a good story. And I can even tell you the name of the guy was Leonard Levigne that I remember. Yeah, after I finished my business, I went back to the office because I didn't know the answers to the questions. But I was part of a law firm already, and I said to some of the senior folks, I said, I need some help. I got a live one here. And that's
what happened. So I guess that's as good a story as like.
That's a great story to kick off, and I'm sure not everybody knows this part of your career in life. So that was, you know, a good start. And let's start with another obvious but no less exciting question, which is about three S Adventures. Let's look ahead of it. Threeadventures. I think it's fair to say it's still in its early days, but it's already making ways. What's your vision for the company over the next few years and how do you see it shaping the industry?
That you asked me? The you of all people asked me this question, Christian, the first time I publicly talked about three C Ventures was it possible? Last April? I hadn't really formed it. I hadn't formed it yet, but I was clearly contemplating it and had already identified its primary purpose, if you will. When I was being interviewed for that keynot last year, the question was Michael, what's next?
And as you kind of ponder that from my perspective, I said, well, what I'd say, which is consistent with how I view it now. I want to continue to add value to an industry that I love and that I cherish, and I want to do that through the lens of the three c's, through the lens of consulting, convening,
and co investing. As you said, consistent with what I've done over the last twenty plus years on the consultative side of the business, and I want to underscore to the industry that I cherish and especially at the inflection point we find ourselves at now more than ever. It kind of reminds me of the inflection point when I
started my previous company. It was the dot com dot com moment where everything was on the hard eight, if you will, in Las Vegas jargon, and lots of problems were being solved that weren't needing solving, and that was the dot com implosion, really the explosion, and the implosion one could argue where at a similar point now with AI and whatever and whoever and however, And I'm certain we'll talk about that later in this conversation, but it's
a similar sort of inflection point. And I think experience and history and knowledge and understanding are critical at this moment, which is an inflection point. And I think that you know, I'm fortunate and blessed equally to have this opportunity, and you know, the good fortune of it, Christian is several months in now, three C is creating real traction in the marketplace and solving real problems and opportunities and creating alignment in places where it's not as obvious to others perhaps.
Yeah. I mean you've mentioned you are now a couple of months into the business with the new company. So using these three principles you've mentioned how they're guiding your work. Can you describe the impact you already achieve with three cventures?
So what was one of the different Yeah, when you say impact, you know the best way Listen. I don't know the ripple effect of what we're doing in the market other than that stuff I can touch and feel. But you know, a deal that we created, participated in and worked three diligently on was at the end of last year and you would have seen that Media Ocean
acquired Innovid in an important technology deal. We were fortunate to be diligence partners with the ownership and all, so then partnered with both from basically a merchant banking perspective Christian if I'm describing it, but also co invested in the spirit of the name with the consortium of holding companies that participated with the Omnicom, WPP and IPG investing into Media Ocean. So first Media Ocean and Innovate and
that's an important deal in the technology landscape. And the tech stack, if you will, and very important, and then having the whole three of the holding companies become owners, if you will, and as well myself in business with your largest service provider. That's a pretty good story to
be telling in terms of marketplace impact, I hope. And the general strategy and direction that we've been giving, and some of it came through the lens of ces with some of the speaking opportunities that we were involved in just talking about i'd like to say, not just talking about where the industry is going, but helping influence where the industry is going.
So in other words, with three ventures you not necessarily open new doors, but there are new connections you can create with these modern version of this.
Oh no, there's new No, No, Christian, you know, I've been asked frequently, what's the difference between my previous company and three c I mean, one wise ass answer I could say is Michael Cassen, that's that's the difference.
That's for sure of the case. Yes, yeah, But.
In point of fact, I'm not sure it has to be different. It would continue to morph if it were the same.
Right.
But see, I have the advantage, Christian, of having created the previous company id eated, strategized and put on the map. So I kind of know the game play for the playbook, if you will, and I'm just finding ways where I would be modifying and tweaking that playbook no matter what.
That's for sure. That's for sure. As part of your consultancy or your consulting job, etc. Is that you deal with c suite for a long time, especially with cmos, and we all see a lot of discussions also on stages, on the possible stages as well in the last two years about the future and the changing role of cemos. In your view, what are the most critical skills and quantities today, simo need to thrive in this area of rapid change. Is it so much changing like the environment or.
Oh no, would I'd say I've been consistent with this for several years.
Yeah. Yeah.
The morphing of the chief Marketing Officer with the chief information or the Chief Technology officer is an important consideration today and for the last i'd say ten years, the role easily maybe fifteen years. The role of the CMO takes on more and more need for technological capability and the role of the CIO or the CTO takes on more marketing. In other words, the way I dumb it down for myself, because that's how I.
Have to do it, is a chief.
Marketing officer is making more technology decisions than ever, and a chief technology officer is making more marketing decisions than ever, So the two have to come together. That's I think important and as well something that I've been banging the drum on for now going on two and a half years. At a FORB CMO conference, I was asked the question by Seth Matlins, which I think is a provocative question and I continue to focus on it, which is what does the CEO not know about the role of the CMO?
And therein is the issue. One thing I always ask a CMO is what's your job title? Is just CMO or Chief Marketing and Growth? Is it Chief Marketing and Product? Is it Chief marketing and Communications? It might be anyone or all of the above, and if so, is that consistent with what your boss thinks your job is? And a key element and again this isn't a new dialogue
for me. If you're given the title of chief Marketing and Growth, for example, and many are, or in some cases your chief growth officer and marketing reports up to you, so you're not necessarily chief marketing, but the the chief marketing officer reports to you. You better make sure that you've got the levers to be able to deliver on growth, because if you've given the title, you want to make
sure you can actually deliver growth. And that's why it becomes more and more important that your boss, whoever your boss is in the C suite, understands your job so that they give you the right tools and levers that you can pull and execute to do what you have to do. Right, But I hope that answers your question.
Yes it does. There was one missing in your scripture, which is a CFO. And because marketing is so much more data driven, is then the CFO coming into play as well?
Or well, it's not only that it's more results driven. It's not only that it's more data driven. You're correct, But today, and that's a very important point, but the CMO isn't being asked to have the CFO capability. But it's an interesting point you make. I tell ad tech and martech companies all the time. Right now you're not just pitching anymore just to the CMO. You're pitching to the CFO and to procurement, but the CFOs and more
and more in those conversations as well. The difference is you, as a CMO aren't being asked to think like a CFO as much as you are like a CTO, whereas you need the CFO at your side. So I turn this table and say to add Tech in mar tech companies, you better make sure when you're pitching brand you know XYZ, you're also bearing in mind that you're going to be talking to the CFO.
Right right, Be honest, was there ever a moment when you thought, in your conversations over years with cemos, when you thought I'd actually love to be a SEMO myself or was that never an option and you preferred staying on the strategic metal level.
You know, when I've advised rock stars, I kind of think I'd like to be the rock star, but I haven't thought about that when i'm you are you are? No, I don't mean that. You know, when I interview a good song and dance man or talk to somebody like that, I may want to be doing their job, but I haven't felt that way about the CMO job. No.
Well, I don't want to share too much secrets. You know what we shared. I think it was two years ago, on the day before First Possible, you know when you mentioned that dance song and dancing. But I don't want you know. Maybe for the next episode, you know, we talk about this part of all.
Well, Christian, I'm going to let you in on a secret. At December, my wife and I celebrated. I think you know this because you do, because you're aware of the trip we took. We celebrated our fiftieth wedding anniversary and it was quite a special thing. And we did have a dance contest and our grandchildren voted as to who won between Ronnie and her partner and me and my partner. I'm sad to say I came to a second Christian.
Okay, I just wanted to share. Ask if you share the outcome.
I may show you a video that when I next see you, Christian.
Okay, at least we can share with the audience that we both have a strong connection to dancing.
And I found out that Christian was a very very well trained ballroom dancer, and I can imagine you doing it. I shared with you that's my fantasy. So there you go. We may have to do a dance off Christian. We may have to do it.
Maybe not such a serious competition, but at some stage, yes we will enter.
I'll get my grandchildren to be the voting body. And then why not I lost to my wife, maybe I can win to you.
I'm sure. Okay, it's on at some stage. There's another big area in our industry which experienced a lot of consolidation in the past couple of years, and this is the agency world. A lot of consilidations and disruptions recently of course with Omni Common, IPG, etcetera. What do you see as a driving force behind this trend? Is it a trend? Is it a lasting trend? And where are the big networks in a couple of years time compared to the more independent agencies.
Well, I think that the Omnicom IPG deal portends more M and A. I think, and I think there's good opportunity for it in the market. I wasn't prescient. I just have my ear to the ground and I didn't know what the configuration was going to be. I didn't know who was going to move first. But I have said publicly for the last eighteen months that within eighteen months, the landscape of the hold codes would be different. It turned out to be right about that. It wasn't that
I was so prescient. It was just that it was obvious that the industrial logic of consolidation would make sense in some context. I think it still does, and I think there'll be other shoes to fall, and I think the soft middle that the independent agencies are going to have some opportunity here, especially on the performance side. That's an area where I think there's a lot of growth and opportunity for the independence agencies. But you know, as I've learned over the years, I hope I'm allowed to
be a little tongue in cheek Christian. Many of my friends know this, you might know this. I was fortunate to consider doctor west Tim are a very very good friend over forty years, and I like to kit around and say, in the context of consolidation, doctor Ruth told me size matters, and so you know, I think we're going to see some more of.
That, especially because there's another party, right the consulting firms who stepped into the agency business in some way over the last couple of years. This is another component.
Right well, and that's growing as well, and continuing to grow.
And then we have at least I've seen you know, over the past few years as well, you know, where brands are bringing more capabilities in house than giving it to an agency.
Well, and we're going to continue to see that, and you're going to continue to see brands expressing their their their spend differently relative to you know, content development and other things. We're going to continue to see those dynamics occurring down the line.
No conversation without touching AI in some way. And I mean this is a I think the most difficult part because in a couple of minutes, how should we discuss AI in today's world. My impression at least is let's kick it off like this. Talking to CMO specifically, they're telling me, okay, we get it. Now, we got it. You know, over years we were told this is the next revolution. It will impact our everybody's world, every part of our world, you know, consumer world as well as
our business world. Now it's time that we need to see experiences from what's already done, the outcome, and what it means for my today's and tomorrow's business. I don't want to hear any more what's you know, what's possible with AI in five years time.
No let me, let me let me answer it Christian, and it is obviously a very important, timely and prevalent conversation. I've described the technology for me at least as the technology of yes. And what I mean by that is, when you're asking somebody, will AI impact this, Will it impact that? Will it impact the next thing? The answer
is yes, will impact everything. I also look at it a bit as a trojan horse, and if you're thinking of what it's going to do to your job or my job, the way I look at it as the trojan horse nature of it is at the beginning, it's going to make us better at our jobs, whatever our jobs are. Back to the technology of yes, it will impact everybody's job, even the most manual of labor jobs will be impacted. So Number one, the reason I say it's the technology of yes. The answer to every question
about what will it impact is yes. Where I think we struggle right now is we're not even sure what the questions are. So I think we have to identify the what and then we can answer the why and the how. Number one and number two, the trojan horse nature of it is at the beginning, it makes your job easier, welcome, Then it makes you better at your job, Then it makes your job even easier, then it makes you even better, and then ultimately you're not necessary. That's the progression.
I see. I think that's a very good description. Yes, yeah, I agree.
Now it starts out as your friend and will ultimately become the end of your job right in some way, shape or form, or a massive change in your job. I think one of the highest responsibilities that a company has today to their employees is L and D, is learning and development. You know, years and years and years ago, I was doing work with the company that owned the
Yellow Pages directories. And I say that because there are probably people on this listening to this don't know what the Yellow Pages were, so I hope you do, Christian, and I remember them telling me in that context they had pick a number five thousand feet on the street, five thousand sales associates, you know, in market selling Yellow Pages.
If they were trying to become a digital company and selling the US Yellow Pages as a digital not a print document, yeah or platform, you better retrain those five thousand people because they're selling a different product. I think it's a similar need and opportunity and responsibility to corporate America.
This isn't about a woke approach. This is about deployment of resources and learning and development, and so I think that becomes a very high responsibility to the C suite to make sure that you're educating your teams and you're enabling your teams to be able to use the technology of Yes.
I think that's a very good example about the potential. And do you think the industry, our industry addressed these challenges correctly? You know, because with this potential, we have questions around data privacy, bias, transparency, et cetera.
I think are industry has got right now. Yeah, we're all spinning trying to figure out how all of these pieces are going to play nicely together. You know, I joke around and say, the mantra in Los Angeles, will I consider myself more than a citizen of Los Angeles. I'd like to fancy a citizen of the world. But you know, the mantra in Los Angeles's instant gratification isn't quick enough and so as a result of that, we all want it right now. This one's going to take a while.
Yeah, Yeah, that's the reason why we have these conversations also at events, at every event these days, and it feels a bit, as you said, circling around, but I also agree that this is the only way to figure it out. And also with new players coming up every day into this business, especially around AI, there will be somebody who will tell us at some stage. Absolutely so stepping up a bit on our most strategic and general
industry level, you know, it was possible. We believe that, you know, we have to cover the intersection between marketing, technology and culture. Do you see any exciting trends or do you have let's say, some one or two bold predictions for where the industry has had it over the next one two years.
Shelter, I think the content side of it is exciting. Look where's the activity, the money, all the noise and results that are being delivered through retail media and or, as i'd like to say, now the media networks, because you can't limit it to retail anymore. It's not just you know, Amazon and Walmart, and you know Albertson's and Kroger's, Tuber and Lyft and PayPal and you know everybody, everybody in the pool is going to be looking at their
media networks and the opportunity. So that's obviously a place where a lot of attention, money and time is being expended. I do believe, and I've been consistent on this Christian for a while content development, because when I talk about content development, I'm not talking about branded entertainment or you know, product placement. I'm talking about content that it ultimately financed by, influenced by, and brought to you by brands. And not
just long form content, but the idea of commerce. Today, I rarely see the word commerce not modified by the word content. So content and commerce. So in the creation of content, I think there's a lot of time and a lot of effort and a lot of money and a lot of focus we're going to see over the next you know, next cycle.
Okay, that's that's I would call it a bold prediction for for the new future. For sure, we thought it was you know, relationship building and that your mastermind doing this, which is key to leadership, bringing the right people together, fostering collaboration, aligning perspectives, et cetera. Given the big you know topics in today's you know world, tech advancements, geopolitical shifts, cultural trends like let's call it TikTok or evolving regulations.
All these things should lead us prior to us. Now, I mean, is there Is it really everything? Or would you say no, there is a ranking, there's a priority list.
Oh, that's a tough one. I think that I'm going to go back to what I said. I think learning and development. I think learning and development is a critical element for a senior leader today. Making sure you've got the people on the job well trained to do those jobs, and you know, keeping them current in their thinking. And that is not getting into any way, shape or form. I want to be very clear on what I just said.
Some of the noise we hear geopolitically about employment and D E and I and those terrible initials where you're not supposed to say anymore. But I don't subscribe to that. But what I'm saying, I don't mean it from that perspective. I mean it from the perspective of whoever is on that job, whyever they're on that well, for whatever reason they're on that job, you make sure that they are being as trained and as focused and as current as they can be.
Definitely a big challenge. I can't imagine this being in that role. We touched a bit that you've mentioned CS in recent years, of course with your previous companies, but also now as well. You are very much involved in CS and CAN lines. You developed these events over the years, especially for the marketing world. One question I cannot avoid being the chairman of Possible. Why do you think Possible is quickly becoming a standout in the industry. We are
now heading into the third year. It's not a long history, but I think we all agree that we are at this edge right, we are at doing the next step.
Now here's what I'd say, and it's a simple one for me, Christian. Okay, you know it goes back to field the dreams if you build it. In this case, I'd like to say we if we build it, they will come. I think we were correct in that story. I've said this now for the last two years. I'll say it again as we approach April of twenty twenty five for Possible, if the market didn't see a need,
we wouldn't have been able to fill it. You saw a need and along with the co founders and the original beyond ordinary investors, of which I'm proud to say I was one, but you saw a need. We all saw a need, and the marketplace need that you identified turned out to be real. And you know, nature appoor is a vacuum, and there was a vacuum. Maybe it was a calendar vacuum. Maybe it was a vacuum between January and June. I don't know. I don't think so.
I think it was a content vacuum. And I think what Possible has been able to do is kind of bridge so many of the elements. You know that. I think the intersection that I live at is that of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, sports, and technolog Yes, I think, if possible, we're touching on all of those things and bringing them together in a comprehensive and a cohesive way and a clear way.
Right. Thanks for saying this. And as you said, we all saw the need together, not just one or two of us, but we all saw the need. And it is a tremendous group of people who are behind that idea. And I'm proud to say that you will also part of this year's show in many different ways, and of course people will see you back on stage. I started
with a let's call it personal question. I would like to finish out today's conversation with a bit more personal question, So mention ex sever time, you're the master connector and you know everybody inside the industry or outside the industry. You know, whenever I talk to you, you say, oh, no, I know this person. You know I can connect or reach out or whatever. But what is your dream connection
you would like to make in twenty five? Is there any personality inside outside the indust street that you would like to meet in person but haven't had the opportunity to do so yet. It's hard to believe that there is one, but maybe maybe.
Well when I was a kid, it was Joe Amaggio. Okay, I was a baseball panattic and I had some heroes and he was one. And I actually didn't get to meet him. But one day he was walking in Beverly Hills and I saw him crossing.
The street, and that was you met You met him?
Well, I didn't really meet him, but I kind of felt like I met him because I saw Jodamagio on the corner and I was like, okay, as as as as my kids would say, this is the ship in a good way, Yes, I know, Okay, that was the ship for me, uh today, Oh god.
Well, we can keep this question for the next so I can keep it for the next days.
You can hit me. I got to really think about that one. Okay, there's there's a lot of there's, there's you know, there's a lot of people on that list. It's a bucket list of it's a bucket list of people.
Let's go offline, you know, and then we have something to talk about next next, for the next episode, next time. Okay, absolutely, Michael. It was such a pleasure as always talking to you, and I hope for our audience as well. And as I said, so, I'm honored and proud to have you on the first episode, but also you know, working with you more or less on a daily level. And as I said, we all see you back at Possible very soon in April and Miami. Thank you very much for this conversation. Michael.
Well, I'm looking forward to being back on the stage and I know that Possible twenty twenty five is gonna make us all proud and I'm looking forward.
Thank you, Thank you, Christian, thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again, I'm your host, Christian Mohan. If you have a question or suggestion to me reach out, send me d M on LinkedIn. If you're curious to learn more about Possible, sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit Possible event dot com. Possible Now is a co production of iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan
Martz and Yasmin Melandez. Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special thanks to Colleen Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our theme music is composed by Anthony Kellacoli. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows