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We have to lay the blame fully at the feet of white supremacy, and if we allow people to have this kind of tragic comparative conversation the entire time, then no one will take responsibility, no one will be held accountable, and we'll just kind of move on as Wow, you remember that while week in the beginning of where we thought all the hell was over in it's it's so interesting that you that you put it that way, and thank you for sharing all of that, all of it, Brittany,
because I'm feeling the exact same way. What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively Gam. Every week I have raw, in depth conversation with inspirational people pushing for change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, to the current issues facing the black community. This episode was recorded January eight, so some news headlines may have changed. Today, I'm going to be discussing the insurrection at the Capitol
and the Georgia runoffs. Joining me on positively Gam today is Tia Mitchell, a Washington correspondent for the Atlanta newspaper. Tia was actually inside the Capitol as it was being invaded. Thank you so much, Tia for joining me today. I know this has been a very stressful time for you. Thank you so much. It has been, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it on your podcast. Yeah, mentally, how are you processing all of this? Like what a
way to start the new year? I don't think I really allowed myself to do too much processing because quite frankly,
we still were busy trying to report the news. Even you know, on Wednesday we went back to the Capitol and still cut Congress, and then on Yesterday Thursday, was still very busy covering the aftermath of what happened on Wednesday, And so, you know, I don't you know, part of me is a little bit scared to like let it all out because then in all the flood and I'll say, part of one of the reasons why it's been easy to kind of compartmentalize is that in real time, we
really didn't know what was going on outside of the House chamber because there are no windows. We were focused on the debate on the floor, so we didn't see like the videos and the pictures that were circulating on TV and cable news until after we had been evacuated. So I think we didn't know what to be fearful of in the moment. Only now are we seeing it. Let me take you back a minute, though, because as a black woman, I want to ask you, did you have any trepidation at all for even being in d C?
Knowing that this group of Trump supporters had been there three weeks prior, protesting and causing a bit of havoc. And I actually would compare them two the KKK because they actually erected a news in the capital and they're running around with Confederate flags. So some people might take issue with that. I do not. So did you have any trepidation just about even being in d C? Or did you feel totally safe because you were going to
be inside of the Capitol Building? So I don't. I did not anticipate that the Capitol Building would not be safe. But I think when you're a journalist and you're going into a situation that might be dangerous, we kind of again have to put that aside because that's what our job requires us to do. I I cut my teeth
as a young journalist covering crime in Jacksonville, Florida. So it's like, I've seen some things, I've been in some scary situations, and you kind of, you know, being a journalist, a good journalist requires a level of boldness and you know, an ability to kind of navigate tough situations. Not that you know it's a good thing, but unfortunately a lot
of times that's what journalists are called to do. And so I knew, you know, we knew that the protests were planned, and it was like, but I can't be fearful of that because my job is to go to the capital and report what's happening, and so I'm gonna do my job and then when other things come with that,
then I've got to work through that. But again, I don't think, you know, part of the breakdown that members of Congress in the law enforcement community have to deal with now is that it's clear that they did not anticipate the level of violence and that violence into ring the capital. And you know, that'll be for those who are studying it to figure out where the breakdowns were
and who should have anticipated it. But you know, it really just wasn't on the radar, that level of violence coming to the you know, to the chambers of the House and the Senate, desecrating kind of what for America is like the symbol of our government. You know, the capital is the symbol of our government. Right exactly where were you located. I was in the House chambers. The
House was debating Arizona's electoral college votes. They were in joint session to you know, tally the electoral college votes, and it's like the final official step to Joe Biden becoming president. But usually it's very ceremonial. But as we know, Republicans mainly in the House, but a few in the Senate were hoping to challenge some of the state's electoral college votes, and so they came in a joint session, successfully challenged Arizona, and so then they had to separate.
So the Senate went to its chambers to debate for two hours. The House was in its chamber to debate for two hours. And because I covered Georgia for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, six of our eight Republican House members were in favor of that challenge. So I was paying attention to Arizona because at the time we knew Georgia
would be challenged next. Georgia was the next kind of on the list, and so again I was just really focused on covering how the debate was going and how it was unfolding, because I knew my state was going to be the next one to go through that process, and so we didn't know. The first thing I saw was that some of the other buildings in the Capital complex were evacuated because they said there was some type
of security threat. Later we found out it's because the bombs were discovered at the r n C in the DNC headquarters, so they evacuated some of the buildings. But again, the House is still debating like everything's normal. And then we started getting told by staff to like get everything we needed and put it in the chamber because they were gonna lock down the chambers to make sure that no one can come in and out. But still there
was no panic. Debate was still ongoing. It wasn't until they stopped the proceedings and hustled out the leaders, you know, people like Stenny Hoyer and I believe Nancy Pelosi. Where I sit, you can't really see Nancy Pelosi, but I'm pretty sure Nancy Pelosi was escorted out Vice President Pence. So were you on the floor. We were up. The media sits up like if you can picture the House chamber and you can picture where the speakers sit. Yeah,
that's like a balcony. That's where visitors normally sit. And then above and behind the speaker's chair is where media sits, so we can kind of look down on everything. And at some point they stopped it, hustle the leaders out and they started to tell us, you know, people are trying to enter the capital. And again, at that point, we didn't know if they meant two people or two hundred. We didn't know that there were hundreds, if not thousands
of people at that point right outside the capital. I had last looked outside around one pm, and at that time there was a protest of I would say several hundred people, but they were behind barricades and they were about a hundred yards away from the capital steps. So that was the last image I saw was like of
a it was just a regular old protest. There was nothing violent about it at the time, and they were behind barricades in a way, So you know, when they said, oh, people are trying to enter the capital, I think in my mind, I'm thinking one or two rogue people, not the entire protest had pushed its way to the capital. But then the next thing is they started handing out gas masks and said there were people in the rotunda.
They were trying to use gas tear gas to push them away, and they gave us gas masks, and so that was clearly an escalation. And then soon after that is when they started. At the time, I would say there were one hundred to two hundred members of Congress in the chamber at that moment, and they started evacuating
the members. But again, most of the members were on that ground floor, but there were some members up in the visitor gallery because they were socially distancing, you know, and so it was harder for us on that second floor. So eventually they were trying to evacuate us. They said, nope,
you gotta stay right where you are. We gotta lock these doors again, and they said just get down, and there were I would say at that point there were about fifty people still inside the chamber, members of Congress, the media, and some of the Capitol police. And that's about when, you know, we could hear people banging on the doors, But again, we didn't know if that's one person running around banging on different doors, it was multiple. We didn't know. We heard a loud pop, we didn't
know if that was a gunshot. And then you know that picture that a lot of people have seen, the members of the Capitol Police. They've got a piece of furniture barricading the door and their guns are pointed as the rioters are trying to knock down the windows to
get into the chamber. We saw that happen, you know, because those were the Capitol Police officers trying to keep people from coming in the chamber, knowing that there were members of Congress still in the chamber, And that lasted for about I would say a few minutes, maybe no more than ten, and then they were able to get
it under enough control to then finish evacuating us. And so when we left the chamber, we could see where the rioters had been subdued by police who had them at gunpoint, had them laying face down on the floor. But you never came in contact with any rioters yourself, not the active rioters. Now there are other journalists who did who were covering the protests, But again because I
was in the chamber covering the actual proceeding. The only time I came in contact with the writers is again when we had to kind of walk past them a little bit, but they had been subdued at that point and we were with the way to a different location. But even then, you know, what we didn't know was even then there were probably at that point hundreds of people in the capital. They had gone into the Senate Chamber and started to vandalize it and things like that,
gone into other people's offices, Speaker Pelosi's offices. All that was going on at the same time. We just didn't know. So let me ask you this, because so few people were arrested during this insurgence, and you say you walked by and there were rioters who were they were down on the on the ground right when you say they were subdued, Yeah, face down. So about how many people was that? Would you say that that was? I could
see I would say four or five. But there was like a corner, so you know, it was it was very short hallway where I could see four or five. I have no idea if there were more around the corner or not. You know, the US Capital for those who have never visited it. You know, it's an old building full of like corridors and hallways and in columns and statues, So it's not a wide open buildings, you know, it's not the open floor plan if you will, of
modern architecture. It's a lot of hallways and corridors, right, I get that. I just find it very interesting once again that these people, though they were subdued, it doesn't seem like they were actually arrested, right, And that's a good point. We don't know if those people were arrested. We do know that if you look at the pictures of the number of people in the capital, that the amount of people who were arrested is a small fraction of that. You are absolutely correct, exactly, And I find
that very very strange. But so okay, So after things got under control, you are allowed to leave or did you stay because you had to? Yeah? We stayed. We stayed. Um. First of all, I didn't want to leave in pandemonium. And at that point, when we were evacuated to a safer location, we could watch cable news and we actually got to see what it looked like outside the capital, and we stayed there for several hours and then we were told that Congress was making plans to go back
into session. The members of Congress were very and yet you know, the Democrats are in leadership in the House, but the Republicans are in leadership in the Senate. But both parties were very resolute that like, we're not gonna let this violence deter us from this constitutional duty that we have to tally the Electoral College votes. So, you know, at six pm is when DC's curfew went into effect, and that gave law enforcement, you know, the legal standing
to disperse the crowd. And so by around eight pm is when we went back to the House chamber. Literally I went back to the same seat I was earlier in the day. They picked up where they left off, and I didn't leave the capital till about one am.
I really handed to you, I'm not I'm not sure how I would have handled a situation like that, But you know, as you say, as a reporter, it's part of your job, part of your responsibility to remain calm, and I guess just follow the procedures at are being you know, file the instructions that you're receiving from the people in charge. Yeah, we and I think every journalist handles it differently, you know, for me, it was going into reporter mode. So I dictated a first person account
to a colleague. I did Facebook live and a periscope on Twitter to kind of communicate what I was seeing. And then I made sure to post on all my social media, and I made sure to call my mom, one of the in the house chamber. When we were
on lockdown. I called my mom because at that point I didn't know how long we were going to be in lockdown, and she is not on social media, and I knew that in short order folks were gonna start reaching out to her about me, and I didn't want her to not have heard from me and to not know what was going on. So I did call my mom. And you know, I I'm one of those people who those you know, the unread text messages and unread emails
bothers me. So you know, I'm responding to text messages and people, you know, checking up on me as much as I can. But you know, another colleague of mine told me he was like, I had a panic attack, and I just had to. I had to go ahead and have my panic attack. And then he regrouped and I we were talking on our way back to go back to work. He was like, yeah, I had a panic attack earlier, you know, so and you didn't experience
any of that. I think because for me, I'm one of those people when when I release, I release it is a release. So I gotta give myself some space to to know that my emotions may have a powerful release, and you know, I just haven't. I'll be honest, I haven't really given myself that space yet. You know. It's just been a lot going on and and again, I think also part of it is reconciling what could have
happened is probably the toughest part for me. You know, if those people had infiltrated the House Chamber knowing that the officers there would have been outnumbered, and if they had got inside the House Chamber and realized that there were members of Congress and members of the media there, It's hard to imagine some of the worst case scenarios. And I'm glad it didn't come to that. You know, I'm sad for those who did die. We're at five
people now dead. But there were members of Congress there that were the targets of the misinformed and disinformed anger that had been radicalized and and riled up even by our president and so, and they also it was clear they didn't have a plan. It was complete anarchy and chaos. So it could have been worse. It was bad, it could have been worse. When they got to the Senate chamber, all the senators were gone. When they the offices, there
were members in their offices. It's just lucky enough. The offices it appears that Rioters entered were empty of people. And that's the part that I, you know, haven't really allowed myself to get too far down the rabbit hole.
And I also, you know, I'm a praying woman. I prayed in the chamber, you know, before I began speaking to you, I found out that my church home in Louisville, Kentucky, even Wednesday night, during midweek Bible study, pastor Kevin Cosby told, you know, it's a online service, and he said, we're praying for Tam Mitchell. She's locked into the Capitol right now. And so I had an entire church family praying for me on Wednesday. And I don't take that for granted either. Absolutely.
What final thoughts would you would you have on this situation? And what what is you know one thing you want to get off your chest. It is the power of media in that mainstream media, your your local newspapers, your national papers, your local TV stations, you're for the most part your cable news like your MSNBC and CNN. We have been working hard to bring accurate news, to bring people news that is not directed by someone with a political agenda or with an extagrind. But what is the
actual truth? And I think what happened Wednesday shows us how dangerous it is when people are misinformed and disinformed and lied to. And it shows to me I just want to stress, like how important it is like the media, and I know we get a bad rap. And let
me be clear, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. But to have a news store that you can trust doesn't mean that they'll always be perfect, but that means you can trust that they're always trying to do the right things for the right reason and when they fall short, they'll be accountable. And I hope people are. You know,
I know, I'm a journalist. It's self serving, but like those people at the Capitol have been radicalized by media who has lied to them and by people who they look up to their leaders who have lied to them.
And and I'm hopeful that as a nation we can start saying, let's speak in truth, let's speak in accuracy, let's speak in the real Even as we now reckon with the the racial differences and how this riot was treated compared to other protests throughout the year in America, We've got to deal in truth about white supremacy and institutional racism. Absolutely absolutely. Do you have any feelings or any thoughts about who you think should be for the
persons that should be held accountable for this breach? I don't you know, my journalism had I'm gonna not go too far into my opinion, but i will say this, as they identify people who were breaking the law, it would make sense to charge them appropriately because that's what we've been told, and not charge them for merely violating curfew, right, I mean, you charge them for whatever laws that they've been proven to have broken, because that's how our system
is supposed to work. And again it goes back to the white supremacy and institutional racism. Because the Republican Party told us over the summer they were the party of law and order, So where is that law and order now, you know, and again there's a lot of reckoning that's gonna happen with you know, the leaders, the law enforcement leaders and who was called in to help and win
and why. And again that's accountability, and that's very needed because there was Again, it could have been so much worse. And and we're looking at people who are still as of right now radicalized to not trust the Biden administration, not think Joe Biden was elected with a fairy election because they've been fed lies. So where are we going
to move from here? Is something that I think our government leaders are gonna have to reckon with and and I'll be you know, the journalists TIA will be watching and reporting it and bringing it to the readers of the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Well, thank you so much for being with us, Tia. We appreciate you taking the time, and please take time for yourself to heal and released and whatever you need to do to recover mentally, emotionally,
and spiritually from this event. Thank you, Gammy, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Keep doing the good work. We need you. Thank you. Tell the listeners where they can find you on social media. Oh, thank you. Listeners can find me on both Facebook and Twitter at TIA Reports t I A R E p O R T S excellent,
take good care to you. Thank you. Now in the second part of my conversation, welcome to Positively gam Today, I have with me Jared Hill, Award winning journalist, writer, host of the podcast Fanti and is most notably known for breaking the twenties six Team Melania Trump Michelle Obama r n C plagiarism story. Also with us is Sarah Riggs, Amiko business leader and Georgia politics expert. She is and working on flipping the state blue since when she ran
for Lieutenant governor alongside Stacy Abrams. After conceding in the Georgia Senate primary election, she hit the ground running and campaigned for both Warnock and osof Congratulations and thank you for your hard work and flipping this the Senate. And lastly, but not least, we have Brittany Packnett Cunningham, an activists who was part of Obama's Task Wars for police reform. She's a writer and host of the podcast Undistracted. Thank you all for joining me today. Well, first of all,
let me just start by saying Happy New Year. And what a hell of a way to start. I'm not someone that I don't consider myself politically astute, but I have been glued to the TV over the past two days watching the news and I am just emotionally uh drained from all the footage and commentary. The capital hasn't been breached since the War of eighteen twelve. So to each of you, what is your initial reaction to this and just jump in. Who wants to go first? Yeah,
I'm happy to start. You know, gave me. The thing that strikes me first and foremost is we told you so. You know, for those of us who knew who Donald Trump was from the day he came down that escalator and spouted xenophobic, racist nonsense to launch a presidential campaign, this is exactly what we feared. For four years. We've been ridiculed by the Republicans who did absolutely nothing but enable him during that time. We've been called snowflakes, and
that's the most polite word. But the reality is we knew this moment was coming. This is exactly the kind of despotic, authoritarian, anti democracy behavior he has done and made himself proud of from day one. So I think the thing that comes to mind for me. As we told you, so, what about you, Brittany? You know I will say yeahman. First of all, thank you for having me and for having this conversation, because so many people
need to be having it. The capital hasn't been breached since eighteen twelve, but white supremacy has been breaching our boundaries for generations since the founding of this country. People who have claimed shock and surprise have not been paying attention to Sarah's point. We have been telling you so, not just about Donald Trump, but about how violent white supremacist patriarchy functions. It functioned that way when it stole this land from indigenous people. It functioned that way when
it enslaved Africans here in America, my ancestors. It functioned that way when spit on Elizabeth Eckford when she was trying to integrate Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas. It functioned that way when Mike Brown was killed, when Brianna Taylor was killed, when Tamir Rice was killed, when George Floyd was killed, when Tony McDade was killed. None of this is new. All of this is deeply familiar, and, as we so often say, is as American as apple pie.
And so the question that I have on this morning is why did it take so long for people to heed the warnings of those of us who were at the most risk under this presidency that did not create the problem, but most certainly campaigned on it, one on it and emboldened it. Why did it take so long for people who should have removed their approval, support for
and perpetuation of this administration. Why did it take the literal insurrection of the US capital for them to finally say enough is enough and I'm no longer going to sign on to this. We have to be who were in this moment that we do not let the people who are accountable for what happened not just Wednesday, but certainly over the last four years, that those folks are not able to just re enter polite society and re establish their their reputations right. And that's elected officials, that's
appointed officials, that's journalists who have humanized these folks. That's police officers who on Wednesday, we're opening up barricades and taking selfies and not only failed to prepare, but chose not to prepare for what was a clear threat. So so that's that's where I am today, hoping we really
hope people accountable. Yeah, it's it's so interesting that you that you put it that way, and thank you for sharing all of that, all of it, Brittany, because I'm feeling the exact same way, and I'm feeling like, oh so now the good wife folk feel threatened. Right now, the good white folks feel feel threatened? You know, but we've been dealing with this kind of terror and and
and destruction for centuries centuries. What what is your feeling, Jarret? Well, when you when you say that, it makes me think about I was up really late last night writing because I've been really frustrated by all of this language about you know, we are better than this, this is not who we are, all of that kind of language that
is incredibly frustrating to me. And every time I hear that as a journalist, there's always this conversation about objectivity and journalism and all of that kind of stuff, and
I've never really believed that that was true. And when I read news newspieces that say that it centers whiteness in a way that really really frustrates me, because if you are a black person in this country, if you are a brown person in this country, if you are a queer person in this country, if you are any marginalized group in this country, you know that, no, this is who we are, right, This is who we have been, This is who we were will probably be for the
foreseeable future. And it's frustrating to continue to hear people talk about, you know, our better angels in this virtuous thing that America is supposedly supp used to be but continues time and time again to prove itself not to be. And I know that for myself when we look at Donald Trump, when we look at the way that Republicans have allowed this kind of thing to continue to happen. When Brittany says, like, you know, we are that people
have to say stand up and say no more. Like I don't see enough people standing up and say no more now. Right, Like we are days removed from this, We've not had a briefing from from any kind of security agency. We've not heard you know, Congress come out with you know, what they're going to be doing next. We were now starting to see that there's movement for impeachment and things like that. But but what about the
fact that these people got into the capital. The people in our presidential line of succession were in like great harm, right or we're at great risk. There's so much to
consider with what just happened. And if I think about like the foreign actors who might want to attack this country, or the other people who are around this country that are waiving that same Trump flag, that Confederate flag, in that American flag, as if they are all the same thing, they are now emboldened to maybe go into their own state houses or to this state house and do the same thing. Sarah, I see you shaking your your head. Did you want to add something? Yeah, I just look.
I'd say to white folks out there who are listening, you need to hear this. And it's not comfortable and it's not pleasant and candidly, that's not relevant. It's necessary. This is the kind of work. And you know, Jared, I appreciate what you're saying about the language. This is
not who we are. And I know that's something actually that in recent months I've used once that I can remember, and I think what we're trying to say and what we maybe need to be more careful about in the language is this is not who we want to be. And if we don't, then we need to recognize the violent nature of white supremacy, and we need to understand how deep its roots are in a nation that was built with enslaved labor on lands that were confiscated from
indigenous peoples. And and that's a tough thing for folks to hear, but you know, I run trucking company, and for our drivers, you can't drive just looking in the rear view mirror. You gotta drive looking through the windshield. But you need that reference point, right. You need to know where you've been, and you need to understand any hazards that were in your way so that you can
avoid them in the future. And if we continue to deny the kind of white supremacy that fueled not just the Trump presidency but the entire state of the GOP and the people who have held their nose and voted for him or turned a blind eye when he called people like journalists the enemy of the state, when he derided black athletes and called them curse words, when he called Mexicans rapist. When you ignore that, when you ignore the small lies he tells, you're not entitled to be
surprised and offended and woke. Now that somebody breached the capital in his name and four people are dead. You know, work needs to be done by us, but it requires that we listen and that sometimes you're gonna have to hear things that that you didn't want to or you
don't want to talk about. But it's the necessary work for progress to happen, right, And and we actually have to really rewrite American history by telling the truth about American history because we've been lying to ourselves all of these years and and it's time for all of that
to stop as well. Now, you know, joy Read gave a really explicitly accurate explanation, in my opinion, and why these white insurgents and writers were not afraid, and I encourage everyone to go to YouTube and just look it
up and listen to it. But basically, she said, they weren't afraid because they see themselves in the police and they're not in jeopardy, so they felt comfortable taking selfies and taking pictures of themselves and in their crimes as the police were helping them down the stairs and giving them a you know, pouring water in their eyes because they know that they were not in jeopardy because they
are not us. They are not black, and we all know, and we listened to commentators over and over again all all day yesterday talk about had they been black, they would have been brutalized, arrested or dead. And Brittany, you've had personal experience with this, so share with us, please, your experience in Ferguson. Where you you were in Ferguson marching about Michael Brown, were you not? Yes? Indeed, I'm a native St. Louis and I grew up fifteen minutes
from Ferguson. I've been an activist my entire life, but that was certainly a moment of international attention on our city and one of the things people really don't remember. And I talked about this on MSNBC the other night with Brian Williams. It was illegal to stand still in Ferguson because the people who were raising their voices on West Florest and Avenue were young and old and almost
exclusively black. The police were literally creating rules in order to suppress and terrorize us, so we would be told that this was no longer a peaceful assembly, and tear gas promptly thereafter, even though we'd be standing there with cell phones and cardboard signs. We'd be pepper sprayed and mazed. People would be would have guns in their faces upon getting off of a city bus right and trying to get home or go pick up their child from school. This was the kind of terror that was occurring in
a residential neighborhood. And for a portion of that time, there was something that the police created called the five second rule that if we were found to be standing still for more than five seconds, we could be summarily arrested. And after that, god knows what, So we literally walked
in circles. It is. It is wild because the police just knew that they had the authority to operate that went until and unless someone told them that they couldn't, And it took lawsuits and judgments and judge rulings for them to actually say this is unconstitutional. But in the meantime, we were being terrorized at the You know, I've experienced that in Bad Rouge, I've experienced that in Baltimore. I've
experienced that all over this country. And the hypocrisy present in the police response is an important part of the conversation. But we have to make sure it's not the only part of the conversation because when it for two reasons, one, we have to lay the blame fully at the feet of white supremacy. And if we allow people to have this kind of tragic comparative conversation the entire time, then no one will take responsibility, no one will be held accountable,
and we'll just kind of move on. Is why you remember that while week in the beginning of where we thought all the hell was over in we cannot afford to simply dismiss this this moment with it just being
kind of full of hot takes, right. And the other reason why we have to not limit the conversation to that specifically around the police is that what we know to be true and what we are finding out more and more is that it is highly likely that members of the Capitol Police force that we're supposed to be holding the line did not because they were participating in the insurrection that they helped plant, that they helped create
it that they we know. For example, we've got witnesses who are saying that Capital police officers lad insurrectionists to certain members offices. We have video of police officers, like I said, taking selfies with insurrectionists. We've got reports that people were coming in dressed as insurrectionists but flashing their police badges to say, I'm one of you, and you're you're just like me. Right. If you look at this last Camp Haines season, across police unions were tripping over
themselves to endorse Donald Trump. If seventy plus million Americans voted for Donald Trump a second time, don't you think that a bunch of those people are on police forces. Don't you think that, perhaps, especially given the union response, there may be a disproportionate amount of police officers in that crowd. This is a guy who encouraged the police to rough us up, not telling them to behave more equitably and more justly. These are people who this is
a guy who encourage police violence. So we have to recognize that not only um with the response, I've been very different, that the choices here were deliberate, and the Capital police deciding not to prepare or hold the line was a deliberate choice, not just because they were okay with what happened, but perhaps because some of them wanted it to happen. And that's what we have to talk about exactly. Eggs actually Brittley. So uh, I so agree
with you, Jarrett. Yeah. I the one of my friends text me, we've been the group chats have been very active, I will tell you that, and that we've we've seen on social media, you know, white folks that were part of it, that we're saying, like they're not supposed to treat us like that, right, like when when there was any resistance to them there. We see that there are various kinds of things on social media over the course
of months where they have been preparing for this. Right So it's not even like the Capitol Police could say that they were surprised they didn't see this coming, because Donald Trump himself has been talking about this from his own Twitter feed. There's very there. Their accounts from journalists that have been talking about this for months back into
saying this kind of thing is going to happen. So the idea that the Capitol Police had no idea that this was gonna happen, the idea that they could not have been prepared, but also the fact that those people were in the capital for three hours it was really telling to me, right, Like, I was out working on something else and started getting text messages like what the hell is going on. By the time I got home, we were still like seeing video and photos were starting
to come out. The idea that our Congress people we're ducking and hiding and locked into their offices, their offices ransacked. We saw a representative saying that those people that the insurrection is the domestic terrorists, calling them what they are, right,
they were getting to places. He was like, I have a hard time finding those places, and I don't and I work here, right, and I've been here for years, So we know that there were people that were that were guiding them to the right places to go to be able to get into Nancy Pelosi's office, to walk out with the speaker's podium, to be able to ransack these offices, and who knows what they took, who knows
what they found? Right, And we haven't even had a plaything to be able to talk about where they went right, to be able to know where they were inside those offices. And the fact that you know, minimal arrests have been made, and the excuses for why arrests haven't been made, and the fact that most of the charges that have been merely been for viole aiding curfew is actually it's just me. I'm just incensed. How do we Well, Before I move on to that question, I want to ask what you're
feeling is about invoking the Amendment? I mean we should
have been having that conversation. I mean a long time ago, right, Like the amendment is one of those things where it's like Donald Trump has shown us week after week after week four for four years and and and and for the year and a half prior to him being elected, right or and I use air quotes around elected because I feel a way about that too, But like, but we have seen every week a different reason for Donald Trump to have that twenty Amendment invoked, or for the
House and for the full Congress to impeach him. And so when people are are talking about what we're considering the twenty Amendment now we're considering impeaching him, we're considering resignations and all that, it's like, well, since where have you been all of this time? Right? We've see these people, these officials from the White House who are considering resignation, and it's like, sweetie, you got ten twelve days left.
What are you talking about? Like, Oh, this was the straw that broke the camel's back, like Donald Trump has been inciting this for years. He summoned these people to d C to do this. And so when we think about the amendment, that would take some courage from Mike Pence that we have not seen. It would take some courage from the cabinet members that we have not seen, and it would take some kind of like some kind of uh, some kind of integrity from our government that
we just haven't seen. We've seen Mike Pence ducking calls from Majority Leader now Chuck Schumer and the Speaker of House, Nancy Pelosi. He doesn't want to deal with this, just like he hasn't wanted to deal with it since the day he signed onto that ticket. If this is you know, a day late and a dollar short, to be sure, but it is the fastest and most efficient way to remove Donald Trump from office. You know, whatever we thought about what happened at the Capitol this week, this is
still the man who controls the nuclear codes in this country. Exactly, exactly. Here's the thing I want us to to be clear on the technical piece. Because government is I used to work on Capitol Hill, government is incredibly opaque on purpose. It's important that people understand the ins and outs of this. The twenty five Amendment requires action from the Vice president and a majority of the members of cabinet. We've had, we've had, and we've had two members of cabinet, Secretary
Chow and Betsy DeVos resigned. If enough of them resign, there will not be a majority of cabinet to invoke the twenty five Amendment. So Ayanna Pressley, the congresswoman from from Massachusetts, are are good sis. She reminded us that we have to see through these calls for the twenty fifth Amendment from people who have no intentions of invoking it, that actually, if we're going to take action that on the technical side of things, impeachment and removal are actually
the best course of action. And to Sarah's point, we have to be very very careful because so much can happen in twelve We saw what happened in three hours. A lot can happen in twelve days. Action has got
to be taken. And Corey Bush, my congresswoman from my hometown of St. Louis, has said, not only do we have to go after the president, we need to get all of the congress people who sold the idea that this was a fraud election up out of Congress too, and that those people on the Senate side and the House side need to lose their job, and she's drawing
up papers for that too. So those are two things that people should be paying attention to because government is confusing on purpose, and we got to see straight through to what's happening. I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm gonna say it out loud. They don't deserve the public trust, they don't deserve to hold office. They're no longer qualified. If you turned a blind eye to the kind of things we've seen Donald Trump do for years, you shouldn't
be there. You don't belong and you don't have anything to add to strengthen our democracy in our union. I just really quickly, I would say one of the other important elements of this with Donald Trump being impeached, the importance of him being impeaches that he can't run for office. He can't run for president again, right, and like we know that he plans on running for president again. We know that I would expect him to counter program with
the rally on on the day of the inauguration. And like the fact that that impeachment would stifle him from being able to do that. I think is a really important element of why impeachment is so important. Exactly good point now to all of this too, when we're talking about accountability. How do we hold the new administration accountable, particularly to the black community. How do we do that?
What does that mean? So it means a couple of things. One, it means being engaged in politics at every single level. Part of that is because a lot of the policies that affect us every day that we think are being decided at the White House, are actually being decided in governor's mansions, on the floors of state legislatures, with your all your people, and your city councils, and in your
mayor's offices. So it's actually really important for us to get into the weeds of this thing to make sure that the things that we want to see be true in our communities that we are pushing on at the local, state, and federal level. The second think we need to do is to be part of an organizing community. Sarah will tell you Georgia has been blue for a long time.
Georgia wasn't read, Georgia was suppressed, and it was a collective of organizers, activists, community members, volunteers, canvases, everybody playing their part to make what people thought was impossible happen after ten years of work. Right, So you have to be a part of a community of people who are
working on the things that you are passionate about. It is one thing to tweet about it or to Facebook about it, is another thing to put your money behind it, and it is another thing to get with other people who help you strategize and organize around it. That last part is so important, And you don't have to be a part of the big national organizations if you don't want their organizations right in your community that deserve your support,
your funding, and your volunteerism. The last thing that I'll say is I fully believe in the concept of critical friends. I believe that real love is actually telling people the truth, and the same is true in politics. So I have developed a relationship with now thank you, Madam Vice President Kamala Harris over over the last couple of years, the last year in particular, and when she calls me, we have really forward, honest, candid conversations, right, and that's what
she wants. She doesn't want a boiler plate answer for what's happening in our streets regarding policing, and guess what, I'm not gonna give you one, even if that's what you wanted. The good news is that she wants the truth. We have to be willing to speak up and tell the truth. So when the bill is not reaching the kind of heights of policy that we want, we have
to say so. When the action that is being taken by the White House or by Congress is not going to the places where we where we wanted to go, we have to say so. And we have to come forward with the ideas that say, instead of do this, do that. So here's what I want the cancelation of my student debt to look like. Here's what I want transformation and public safety in my community to look like. Here's what I want the Green New Deal to look
like in my community. Right, we have to get clear about all of these things and continue to raise our voices as if these people work for us, because they do. I think a really important part of that is Brittany is kind of laying out all of the different ways that it looks practically applied. Right. I think so many of us get really wrapped up in voting and think that that is the avenue for democracy to be to
be seen. But I think realistically, when it comes time to when when the inauguration is over, right, there is still work to be done. And I think that's so much of America, as we've seen in turn out with voting in so many other places, like so many people are way more engaged than they've ever been. My parents were never people who could tell me who the Secretary of State was and you know who the senator of that was. But now they are able to say, did
you hear about what so and so just did? And I think it's important that people continue to stay engaged because this is the time that we can make the most moves. Right. We have a democratic House, a democratic Senate,
and a democratic president. We can talk about the Supreme Court on an the day, but like what we have sold many we have so many different things that we want to get done, and we've got to make sure that we stay engaged, that we stay organized, and that because I think during the Obama era, so many people were so excited that Barack Obama got elected and he was saying immediately right like no, no, no, This isn't over.
We still have work to do. And I think people got comfortable and lazy, and that that was why so many people were so surprised by Donald Trump. And it's like, no, we've seen this rising on the other side the entire time Barack Obama was president, and so Donald Trump was not a surprise for a lot of people. So it's important that you don't just you know, vote in your election or vote in your runoff or whatever it is.
You have to stay engaged to be able to make sure that we're able to affect the change that we need, because getting someone elected is not enough. Yeah, that too. I think it's really important we elevate individual stories, especially from marginalized communities, whether that is the LGBTQ community, whether it is communities of color, the black community, also rural
right in places like Georgia, our rural community. These are are in desperate situations both economically and in terms of access to healthcare, in terms of access to equitable education. You know, the color of your skin or the zip code where you're born may well determine the kind of access you have to opportunity for the rest of your life. In some of these places, so I think the other thing we can do to keep people accountable, and we've recently started a platform to do this, is is let
people tell their stories. Right, millions and hundreds of millions of dollars are spent by political interest groups, parties packs to elevate the narrative that they want. But the more we can elevate the stories of how these policies and the failure or the lack of accountability for politicians impacts real people in our communities, the better impact we're going to have in terms of holding elected officials accountable, making them look at what those decisions have cost to real
people in our communities. Now, Sarah, I want you to really talk about Georgia, because you know, everything that happened at the capital really overshadow the winds that we had for War Knock and John also in Georgia, and it's really really hugely important, and it's important for black people in particularly, not just black people, but black people in particularly that don't believe in the government that a lot
of times don't believe in the vote. This was an opportunity where we really really put tent toes down and got it done. Georgia really got it done and we were able to flip the Senate. So talk talk about the importance of that win. Absolutely, we saw a couple of things. So first of all, John asof made history as the first Jewish American elected to the U. S. Senate from Georgia. He's the youngest senator in forty years
since Joe Biden actually entered the Senate. And you know, I heard on Twitter the other day I thought was something was funny he should name his first wild Rafael, because the Reverend Raffael Warnock was a fantastic partner for him in this election. And John and Rafael are both good friends and I couldn't be more happy for their win.
But the reality is that Reverend More knocks deep roots, not just as the pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church and in the Black church we at large, but his deep, deep roots in the social justice movement on everything from ending mass incarceration, to protecting access to the ballot box for communities of color, and to engaging with the black community on every aspect of economic opportunity and jobs in our state. Really brought a lot of balance to the ticket,
and I think it motivated people. Let's be clear black women organized in Georgia and led to this happening, you know, from Stacy Abrahams to Infolt two writers like a Noah Chonga who had been out there sharing this message for a long time. And I think having more Knock on
the ticket also energized black men. And I suspect that when we deep dive into the numbers from this win, the black belt, that southwestern part of Georgia and the rich agricultural area across the southern half of the state, the rural places that we think of as traditionally white Republican counties, Uh, those are very diverse counties. It's just a lot of times black voters in those areas haven't had anything to show up for. And I think to his credit, you know, John ass Off really came to
back for Rafael Warnock and vice versa. There was a great piece in the Atlanta Journal Constitution this morning by Jim Galloway, who's kind of the senior writer for the last forty years of the a j C and politics, and he said, you know where Reverend Warnock had to be very careful sometimes in avoiding stereotypes of black men running for office. John Assof would come in and and
get his back. And when the right attacked Reverend Warnock for his positions on Israel, John Assof as a young Jewish man with deep roots in that community, came in and had his back. It is this beautiful, elegant alliance that really is reminiscent of the great partnerships of the
civil rights movement in the South. So I, for one think that this, you know, this is an election where we oh entirely the flipping of Georgia, not just in these two Senate races, but delivering sixteen Electoral College votes for Commonis and Joe biden Um electing the first Black and South Asian woman to be the Vice President of the United States. We owe that a lot too, to the Black community and also to our Latin Next communities,
to our Asian American Pacific Islander communities. You know, these are voters who for too long have been marginalized and sideline, left out, left behind, And nevertheless they showed the greatest hope in this democracy of any demographic in the entire state. They showed up, they made their voice heard, they made history happen, and I think you're gonna see great things
from both Warnock and ofss Off. And you know, I say that as somebody who lost in the I'm your right to John also right, I mean, and I mean and I meet it with all my heart. I mean, nobody's twisting my arm here to give compliments. He is an idealistic, forward thinking, honest person. I think he'll do
the right thing. And Reverend Warnock, we don't you know, we don't have to guess he's been getting arrested in the capital, you know, if you want to talk about the difference in police presence between what happened on Wednesday, Reverend Warnock was arrested in the rotunda for prey with Reverend Cynthia Hale. I mean, this is this is the kind of work that he's done for decades, and I honestly couldn't be prouder to have these two minutes my
U S. Senators. Yeah, well, you know, we haven't had a Democratic senator in Georgia, so I'm feeling extremely hopeful that the Democrats are in power. Just just out on to Sarah's point really quickly. I think it's also important to recognize that we have Ruphael Warnock being the first black person that has ever been elected from a Confederate formerly Confederate state. Have John Austin that is the first Jewish Man. But we also know what it's like to be the first, right or to be the only or
one of the few when you're in those rooms. And I think it's important that we recognize that when those people go into those those rooms, into those committees, into all of those all of the different ways that they have to to work to be able to get things done for us, the challenges that they're going to face are going to be great, and it's going to be important that we are they're supporting them and back in them and also in their ear for the things that
we need. Yeah, and we've only had eleven black senators in the history of this country. I mean, that's just impossible for someone like me to believe. And so what what we're not has done and he is he is everything you hope he'll be in that office. I'm confident he'll do a great amount of work. But you know,
he's the twelfth in the history of the country. It's in a remarkable thing we've accomplished, and it's a shame that yet again the maga Hat folks have overshadowed what should have been a real triumph of the resilience of our democracy and of the black community, especially in Georgia. We could go on forever. I really feel like we're not done, but I know we have to wrap it up.
I know Brittany has to leave one last question. One I just want to ask each of you, and we'll start with you, Brittany, what is one final thing that you want to get off your chest? Oh, gosh, one final thing. It's it's it's to have disciplined hope. We have done hard things. We have done them many times before. We have done them during a pandemic and one of the most unprecedented elections of our time. We are capable of greatness when we decide to get together and make
it happen. So as to remain committed, because as far as I'm concerned, can no insurrection is still my joy
and they certainly can't stop this work. Yeah, I think the thing that I'm most hopeful about going forward is this rising multi racial, multi generational coalition that can do those hard things Brittany talked about, that can put the first black senator in office from the state of Georgia, that I have hoped my kids will not be dealing with pay equity and the kinds of racial justice strife we saw, especially with the amad are Very shooting and
in Ray Schard Brooks in Atlanta as well over the summer. I think, you know, everything from making sure no one in this country is sick because they're poor or poor because they got sick, to having clean air and clean water in an environment that's treasured and valued the way it should be. All of it's possible now, like voters did that. So every time you you think your vote doesn't matter, you know, just remember the year we took our country back. Yeah, what about you, Jarrett, I'm thinking
about mental health, to be honest with you. I'm thinking about the mental health of the organizers, of the journalists, of the elected, of the staffers, of all of the people who are going to have a mountain to climb in the coming weeks, months, and years of this next administration.
I I serve as the vice president of the National Association of Black Journalists here in Los Angeles, and I'm always thinking about our journalists and what it is like to have to cover these stories day to day, what it is like to have to be in the field, to to hear these stories, to see the things that you see every day, and how disheartening it can be, how depressing it can be, how difficult it can be
on your psyche. And you know, my friends work in various different levels of the of the federal government, and it is a stressful, stressful job. It is a stressful
place to work. And I just wanna to to send out, you know, the thought that we should be thinking about these people and supporting them in various different ways, because it is not an easy thing to do, to be the person who has to serve, who has to vote, who has to write, who has to speak, who has to stand in front, who has to stand in back, who has to do all of these different things. I think it's really really important. Thank you guys. This was
This was I'm telling you. I just feel like we we just just that's just a little bit of everything that's going because there's so much, so much to talk about that we just didn't have time to do. But I certainly appreciate your time. Tell the listeners where they can find you on social media. Brittany, thanks so much for having me. You can follow me, people can follow me at Miss pac Yetti on Instagram and Twitter. Yes,
you can find me everywhere at Jarrett Hill. It's Jarrett with two Hours and two Teas on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, UM and the show that I host, Fantai is about the complex and complicated things that we love and have challenges around UM and we talk about all of those things that comes out every Thursday. Fantai is available on all podcasts platforms spelled f A N T I GAM. Thanks so much for having me. Folks can follow me
on Instagram or Twitter at Sarah rigs Amiko. That's s A r e h R I g G s A m I c O. And I'd love for folks to take a minute and check out my new project, Rediscovering Our American Dream. We are working to redefine the American Dream to be inclusive of all communities, communities of color, rural communities, poor communities, immigrant communities, people who have been
traditionally left out and left behind. So we've created a platform where you can upload your story on everything from immigration to starting a small business, to why you vote, or the importance of access to affordable healthcare. So folks can visit our website at www dot our American Dreams dot org again, that's www. Dot our American Dreams dot org. So grateful and look forward to talking again soon. We'll have to do it again. Thank you so much, thanks
for having us, Gammy absolutely thank you guys. So here's my take away from this conversation. In forty five most recent speech on Twitter, not only does he continue with his lies. Katie Kerrick described his final statement as the most chilling in twenties. Teen Lindsey Graham said, if we nominate Trump, he will destroy us and we will deserve it. Well, he has and you do as you all sat by complicit as forty five ran rampant viewing, hate, beer and
destruction through our democracy. The American people have suffered literally through his sickness. He must be impeached so we will never be subjected to his reign ever. Again. Thank you to my guests Tea, Jared, Sarah and Brittany. We had so much to unpack in so little time. We just may have to do this again. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate and review the episode.
Follow me on my Instagram at Gammy Nari's to share with me your thoughts on the episode I'm here, I'm talking, and I'm listening. As always, Stay grateful, y'all. Happy New Year. Yeah. Positively GAM is produced by Westbrook Audio. Executive producers Adrian Vanfield, Narris, Jada Pinkett Smith, Amanda Brown, and Fallon jethro Co Executive producer sim Hoti, Segment producer Ash Francis, associate producer Erica Ron,
editor and mixer Calvin Bayliss. Positively GAM is in partnership with Art nineteen